Episode 3: Understanding Your Customers & Competition

In this episode of The Clean Hour, we break down why understanding your customers and competitors is one of the most important steps in building a successful pressure washing business.

Too many business owners try to market to everyone — and end up attracting the wrong customers, charging the wrong prices, and struggling to grow.

We discuss:
✅ How to identify your ideal customer
✅ Why you should “target the money, not the many”
✅ Understanding customer pain points
✅ Commercial vs residential clients
✅ Learning from competitors without obsessing over them
✅ How your marketing changes once you understand your audience

If you want to attract better customers, make smarter marketing decisions, and grow your pressure washing business strategically — this episode is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to the third episode of the Clean Hour Podcast. Thank you to everyone who listened to the episode one and episode two. If you haven't already, please go and check them out. They're on Spotify, Apple Music, Apple Podcasts, sorry, and on YouTube as well. So episode one was vision and goal setting, and episode two was the power of social media and the importance of paid ads for your cleaning business. So we're back today, episode three, and this one today is all about market research. So it's how to understand your ideal customer and also how to understand your competition as well. So we're going to get into this maximum an hour, because that's the idea of this podcast. So let's get into it now. But um joining me again, as always, is uh is Matt. Matt, how's it going? A few weeks since we spoke.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Yep, all good, pal. All good, busy. You know, we're we're mid-flow season now, aren't we? So it is absolutely manic. But it's all good. That's how we like it. We like to be busy, don't we? So yeah, all good, pal. Yourself? Yeah, no, I'm good.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

I've been um in Portugal, so snap back to reality now. Week in Portugal, absolutely beautiful. But uh weirdly, it's hotter here now and back. It was like low 20s in Portugal, and it's 30 degrees this week in Birmingham. Is it about you?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Yeah, it's gonna be red hot in it this weekend. Absolutely red hot. And next week, um red hot.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Get that sun cream on, my friend. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Right then. So, important one today. So, like we said before, this podcast, it's gonna each episode is gonna follow on from the last and a 12-week journey. If you're just starting a pressure washer business or a cleaning business, follow this journey. If you've already been going years, reset and follow this in order. And in 12 weeks' time, hopefully you have a much better business and uh you'll be much more switched on from a business point of view and how to grow it. So, episode three, uh, market research or how to understand your ideal customer and understand your competition. Matt, loads of businesses in this industry fail, don't they? Because they try to market to everyone. Why is it important to understand your customer first of all before you really get going?

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Um, yeah, you're right. And that's a key point, is what people try and do is they think, right, I'm gonna be an exterior cleaner, and everybody is gonna be my customer. Well, they're not, are they? You know, and understanding your ideal customer from the offset, what you should be able to do, right? You should be able to get a pen and paper, and you should be able to write down your customer, who they are, who is your ideal customer. So, for example, you should be able to write down um uh Jenny, 29 years of age, um, detached house, driveway front, patio back, whatever it is, or you know, and and and understanding what what she makes up. Is she employed? Does she have a good job? Does she have two cars? You know, you're building this picture of this customer, right? Because not everybody is going to A be able to afford your services, B, need your services, or even three, want your services. So if you can pinpoint who your ideal customer is on pen and paper, when you go to market or look at the areas where you want to work, it's easier because you know your customer is, and and I think we forget that at the start. We just go, right, everyone, everyone's gonna be my customer. I've gonna do this and I'm gonna sell it to everyone. You you're not, you're not, and if I look at my business, Cottswell roof cleaning, I don't clean every roof in the street because they're not my customers. The customers that I clean, they're the customers that are my ideal customer. You know, two hours is down, absolutely not my ideal customer, you know, because they may be driven on price, they may not have you know the the money to do it. It is it's understanding where your customer hangs out and who your ideal customer is right at the start of your journey.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

It's really tempting, isn't it, when you first start your business because you've probably spent a lot of money on kit and a van and stuff, that you just want to claw back work as quickly as possible and get money in. And it's really easy to just want everyone to say yes, you don't matter, doesn't care who the job is, what kind of person you're dealing with, it's really tempting just to say yes to every job and try and target everyone. But we both know, and talking to you know, all of our clients and just anyone in the industry who's doing well, you you'll come to regret that eventually because you know, maybe we'll tell a few stories uh leaving names out in this episode, but you can get some absolutely nightmare customers and jobs that just aren't worth your time and worth your money, and you can't scale to make a profitable business if you're targeting customers who aren't right for you, both in a financial point of view. You know, some people also like some people want to travel two hours or two and a half hours to do work, and long term I think that's a mistake because it's not sustainable. So it's really important to hone in, isn't it, on your on your ideal customer before you even get going and and and and know because then you can start marketing and stuff. We'll get into that later, but it gives you a clear path, doesn't it, to to where you want to be.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, absolutely. And you're you're right about the distance travelled, right? You know, if you're traveling two hours one way, two hours, that's four hours of your day. You know, your prices are going to be through the roof to make that pay. The the way uh the way we operate from here, we do 60 minutes maximum from our office. 60 minutes. We put a pin in it, a 60-minute radius, and that's where we market. Um, and then our our ideal customer, you know, is we're probably looking for a property that has a household income of anything probably north of 70,000 is what we're looking for. Because we're only offering roof cleaning, right? Roof cleaning isn't a a necessity, it's a want. I want my roof to look nice, I want the moss removed, you know. I'm fed up a sweep in the patio. So to have that money, and we're not the cheapest company out there, our prices start from a thousand pounds, so we're not cheap, you know. So I need to really understand who my ideal customer is and really hone into that. But then that leads on to how we bring value, how we set ourselves up, and how we show ourselves to those customers, you know, the image that the customer that I'm trying to attract it has to reflect in our social media, you know, and that's how it all starts to build up. But once you understand who your customer is and what the price point is, is that that that's when you start to then click and then start to become consistent with work. And you're right, people are trying to sell to everyone, and I hear it all the time. You sit on social media, oh, I've just done this roof for 300 quid, and then I've done this roof for 900 quid, and then I've I've done a right touch here, I've done this roof for 1200 quid. I I don't know how they get these different price points, you know. If you're going down to the roof at 300 quid, and then you're going up to 1200 quid, I don't get it. It's they're obviously just taking any work they can, and you're right, at the start, that's what we do. We take any work we can. It helps build the social proof doing all this work, but you've got to quickly understand your customer and you've got to quickly get your price point right because once you get that, that's what changes the game for your business. Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Well, it's the I think it's the idea of would you rather do like one £2,000 job or £2,100 jobs? And that mindset, I think, is what will determine where your business is going to go and how much money you're going to make. Because I get people um asking to work with me and saying, Well, we're because we're already looking at the auto now, aren't we? Really, in terms of marketing. And people are saying, a few people are saying to me, Should we tar should we turn on a gutter campaign? And I say to them the same thing, I'm like, Yeah, you can. And there's nothing wrong with having a gutter cleaning business, but if you really want to make the most of winter, target roofs, why why try and get hundreds of gutter jobs when you could get 10 to 15 roofing jobs a month and make more money? And yet, you know, and you're not travelling to 100 different locations in a month, you it's less work. Yes, okay, roof cleaning is harder, but less jobs, you need to get less leads in, there's less conversions and make more money. I think that's the mindset that people need to get into, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, and it it roof cleaning does go all year, you know. It goes all year. So you're right, you know, if you're gonna pay. I think I think the problem, right, with marketing gutter cleaning, especially with paid ads, right? It to me, gutter cleaning is a low-ticket item. It's a low-ticket item. I see posts on Facebook, I see all the paid ads for it, and these companies are doing it for you know, I think it's £25 a side or something.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah, I've seen one.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, well, there you go. And I'm thinking, it is it really worth getting the gutter vac out? Is it really worth doing all that work for £25 quid a side? And have you seen worse? Well, I think if the leads are costing you, I don't know, six, seven pounds a lead or whatever it is, if the leads are gonna cost you £10, £12, £15 for a roof clean, surely you're better off earning £700, £800, £1,000 from that lead and doing one job a day. Surely, surely that's got to be a plan, you know, and we've spoken about this before, and we were we we offer everything, and then we make our marketing really weak because we offer everything to everybody. Where if we just offered the high-ticket items and really honed in on that, if we honed in on our social media, honed in on our marketing, honed in on our ideal customer, and just did high-ticket items, you're gonna make more money, less stress, and you're gonna left it's gonna look a lot rosier. You know, you'd rather be doing I'd rather be doing four roof cleans a week than and I don't offer gutters, than 20, 30, 40 gutter cleans. Imagine the amount of leads you need to get to convert 30, 40 gutter cleans. Be mental.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Mental. And it sets the tone, I think. So if you keep saying yes to these cheap jobs, and look, some people prefer that model. That's fine, go and do that, but that's not what we're on about. We want to make money, right? So the problem is if you say yes to this, you know, 40 pound gutter job, and you say yes to another one, it's very hard to stop that then. You get into a cycle. Whereas if you say, right, I am not dropping below, you know, I don't know, 850 quid for a roof, even higher, a thousand pound. That is my that is my level, and I'm not under any circumstances dropping under it. You you've set your benchmark then and you've put yourself in that mindset, and you're gonna make it happen. It's gonna happen, you're gonna make it happen. Whereas it's very easy to get caught in a race to the bottom, and that is why so many people in this industry go bust in September. They're all have it's all a race to the bottom. Constant posting in these groups and just you know the carcher boys, as we hear a lot. You don't want to get sucked in, because once you get sucked in, I think you'd you're not coming out, in my opinion. You're going busting in the autumn. Um, so I think there's a phrase that I like this phrase I've heard before. Um, it's it's target target the money, not the many. And I think that's a really good mindset to get into. So instead of going for everyone, we target people with money, because that's basically what who our audience is, right? Our ideal audience, your company, my company. Um how do we start targeting these high-ticket uh customers, Matt? And and and why is it important to to do that?

SPEAKER_00 11:39

Um well if if I if I use if I use Cotswell Roof Cleaning as an example, right? When we do the flyering, when we go out on flyer, you know, if we're on a street, we we do 10 or 20 houses on that street, right? And we but we hand pick the houses. We handpick if there's nice cars on the drive, if it's a well-kept house, we don't just fly it to every house. So we hand pick, we select the the properties that we want to put our flyers through. The ones that have got or have the the money looking at the property, looking at the driveway, looking at the car. You know, if the driveway's all being cleaned and all the windows are all nice and clean, the garden's kept, but the roof is covered in moss or it needs a clean, you're like, ah, prime. They obviously look after the house, they obviously are proud of where they live. They are a perfect person to have one of my cards through the door because, like you said about the price, our price starts at a thousand pounds plus the VAT. We don't lower it for anyone. That that's it. The van doesn't move unless it's that price. So, understanding where you're putting your flyer in, you know, and and the if you're going door knocking, door knock on the houses that are have got the appearance to pay your bills. You know, it's no good knocking on an house that's run down. They obviously don't care about the property. You know, I go past some, and and you'll find these in affluent areas. There's some houses that are absolute shitholes, they don't care, they're not gonna pay me a thousand pounds to clean the roof, they haven't cut the grass or picked up the dog shit from the drive. It's just I'm like not bothering, are you? You're not gonna bother with them. You need to really pick. You can very quickly go on to right move, right, and search areas and see the value of properties. You can see the value of housing estates, right? And if you've got housing estates in and around your radius where you work that are half a million pounds plus, then that's where you want to be doing your marketing. That's where if you want to get high tickets with people that have got an income to pay for your high-ticket service, you know, that's where you want to be targeting. And if you spend more time targeting them areas, yes, they are harder sales. People don't get money by giving it away, they get money by being really shrewd with it, and they want the best service, but they understand value. If you are bringing value to them, then they are prepared to pay. People will pay a premium for value, you know. People in these big houses aren't always looking, and they're not looking for cheap and cheerful, they're looking for professional value, but pain point, getting rid of their pain points, and that's where you start.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

What's interesting with that is when you said there's some people who have these big houses but don't do anything with them. I think there's two types of affluent people, and correct me if I'm wrong. There's there's the one type who are minted but they're minted because they don't spend a penny. They're really, really tight, like Scrooge kind of thing. And then there's people, the other side, who I think you want to go for who have mu that they're rich, but they're they're they're not paying, they're not trying to save money, they're trying to they'll happily pay for someone to who they can trust, someone to do the job more effectively and to do it quickly. That they're they are willing to pay that. Hence why I think you know that people with money they go to nice hotels because they're willing to pay that premium because they want the nicer experience. It's the same with anything, it's why they buy the better cars, and they'll they'll be exactly the same for you. They would much rather a professional, you know, uniform branded, professional van set up, polite business come and then pay the extra than pay the carcher boys to come and and you know hack away at the drive and with their dodgy van. You know, that they're they're much more willing to do that, like you said. So it's uh it's a no-brainer to go for them, but I think people just just don't know where to start. And you've got sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Sorry, it's alright to go you're right, aren't you? If we look at it in another industry, right? Let's take airlines. Let's take airlines, let's take Emirates, right? You can jump on the back of Emirates for 400 quid, right? In economy. You can upgrade to business for a thousand pounds, or you can upgrade to first class for two, three thousand pounds, right? And those prices are just, you know, I'm just making them up. But you get the point. The economy is always full, business is always full, first class is always full. You know, Emirates don't lower the prices of first class and business if it ain't full because they're always filling them. Because they they know who their customers are. There is going to be customers that just want to jump on and get there. The plane's going to the same the same destination, right? It's going to the same destination at the same time. People in first class don't get there any quicker. People in business don't get there any quicker, right? Yeah. But what they get is value. If you fly business class and first, you get picked up from your house and you are taken to the private arrivals. You know, you get extra baggage, you get on the plane, they know your name. As you arrive at the steps, they welcome you. Good afternoon, Mr. Brookfield. Welcome to Emirates Business. You are shown to your seat, everything is laid on for that is the same in the exterior cleaning world. If you think about that, there is people that are willing to pay a higher price for a value that when you turn up at the door and you go to speak to them and you say, Good afternoon, Mrs. Jones. It's Matt from Cottswall Roof Cleaning. Lovely to meet you. Thanks for the inquiry. That's you're starting to add value when you're walking around the property. You are telling them not how you get it, but you're showing them the value in your company, you know. And one of the biggest values that people take straight away is how busy you are. You know, there's a there's a lead time, scarcity, they have to wait. It's a massive, massive thing. If you turn up to a house that's a million pounds and say you can do the work next week, they ain't gonna book you. They ain't gonna book you. People like people with money like scarcity, they like it that it's they're obviously really good. How many people I ask I ask people all the time, why did you book us? Why did you book us? And they say, Because when you came to see us, you were very professional, very smart, you you spoke very well about your industry, you've been in it a long time. Also, you were fully booked for three months, and when we got quotes, Matt, you weren't the cheapest, you were the dearest, and you still went with us, yes, because obviously everybody you work for has paid you a deposit and you're busy, so you must be bloody good.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Well, it well it's it's it shows that these customers, your ideal customers, are um price isn't the primary driver. Then that's that's the that's the thing to think about. That's not what most most people think gotta gotta charge less, gotta try and you know beat the quote. These customers aren't that's not what that's not the game they're playing, that's not the league they're in. Price is not the primary driver. And it's addressing pain points, isn't it? Right, what are their pain points with with cleaners? Probably late, um unprofessional, uh hacking away. Uh do they you know they don't trust them to come to the house. If you can address those pain points, like we just said, you know, take the time to to to walk around their property, be professional, turn up in a in a branded uniform, have your van clean and wrapped, you you're ticking off all these pain points then. And you know what's in you know what's interesting as well is the these affluent customers, right? They're they're um quite often physically in a gated community, let's just say. But they're metaphorically in a gay community as well. Meaning, if you were to let's say there's a house of 30 million pound houses in a in a in a community, and you clean one of them and do a really, really good job, guess what? They're gonna they're gonna um recommend you to all their all their mates because that's what that's what rich people do. A rich person with all the rich friends wouldn't recommend someone who's awful, would they? They just wouldn't do it because they want to keep their reputation high. So you you have to get you get yourself into the metaphorical gate community, and once you're in, I think you're in a really good place. Then there's people, sorry to go off a little tangent, I can't remember who where I saw this, but there's um I saw a business story. I don't know if it was you I was talking to. There's a guy, uh, he's in South London, and he um he does car detailing. Was it you who told me this? I don't think it I can't remember who it was anyway. No, of course, tell me the story. He does he does car detailing, uh, and he one day um Mark Gahey turned up, the the footballer for uh Man City uh and England, and uh he decided right then he was only going to target Premier League footballers, so all the footballers come to him for their car detailing, that's all he does every single month, is just different footballers' cars, and that's a classic example. As he Mark Gahey came, did a really good job, and now he would he's recommending to all the other footballers, and that's his pure business now. He's making so much money with his ideal client every single week, and I think it can be applied to cleaning businesses as well.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

And you're right, it can. If you look at another story, a follow-on from that, is Yamanizer, the the rapping guy in London, he was the same, he was the same. He he got an Arsenal football player, messaged him and said, Can you wrap my car? And he did it, and then all of a sudden, every footballer, every celebrity wanted the cars wrapped by Yamanizer. And it and it is you do one property and do it well, um, then it can open massive doors for you. And and also, you know, on a on a flip side to that, right? We've cleaned houses, we've cleaned domestic houses um for people not knowing who they were, and on the back of that, we've taken really good commercial work because these people that operate in these big houses, you know, outside of their house, they probably operate in really big companies or own really big companies, and we've done really good jobs, not knowing what they've owned. And then we've gone and done big commercial jobs. Um so you just don't know who you're working for. And and another top tip I'm gonna throw in um whilst you're working at these properties, right? As you know, I swear a lot. I don't swear on a customer's property. I tone the language, I really play the ball, right? But also when I had lads that smoked, they weren't allowed to smoke on site. They had to walk, they had to walk down the road. If they wanted a fag, they walked down the road. Because you don't want if you if you're a non-smoker, if you're a non-smoker, the last thing you want is is lads grafted in your garden, stood there smoking. You just don't want it, and it was little things like that that sets us apart. It literally when you drive around now, have a look at trades when you go past builders or you go past landscapers or cleaners, just have a look at them working and see if they don't smoking on the property. Can you imagine how annoyed you'd be if you were a non-smoker?

SPEAKER_01 23:00

And it's those little things. The little touches are huge. Um I've said before my my old business was a wedding business. Uh, and what when we s in the first few years, when we would book a a combo package, so a video and photo, which was you know a multi thousand pound package, um, I'd send them this box, and in the box had like a um a bride uh emergency kit, had some like um groomsman socks, it had like a some chocolates and confetti and stuff, and I'd I'd post it out and send it to them. And that little touch, it probably cost me about don't know, 15 quid a box. But the recommendations that came from it are unbelievable. Uh and companies like Disney and and the these companies have got this nailed on, these little touches, they make a huge difference. And that's why like that's why like Disney keep this that's why if you go to Disney World, a lot of times you go back and back again because those affluent people who can afford it they get sucked in, and it's it's exactly exactly the same, exact same psychology.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

You're you're right, and I know an exterior cleaner that does that.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Does what?

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I was contacted through social media by an exterior cleaner. Um, no names, no pack drills, won't tell you where they're from. But what he was doing was building his company with goodie bags, and he had really smart designed goodie bags, and there was a um, I think there was a cloth in there, there was branded chocolate, there was something else. But it was really smart and a business card, right? And he had, I don't know, let's say he had 200 of these made. He then went around placing them on the doorsteps of the houses that he wanted to work. But these weren't these weren't end terraces, nothing wrong with an end terrace. I live in a terrace, nothing wrong with an end terrace, but these were big million pound house plus, right? Yeah. In his area, but and that was another thing. What he also did was he tried to find out the names of the people that lived there, and he hand-writ the card directly to them. And if he couldn't find the name of the people, these big houses don't normally have numbers, they have names. Um, so he put it to the household, you know, to the Willow Tree house family, and then left it on the doorstep. And when I spoke to him, um I think he had delivered, I want to say he delivered something like 25 of these um goodie bags and hand delivered them. Didn't knock the doors, just left them on the doorstep. And out of those 25 goodie bags, I think he'd converted something like 31 grand's worth of work.

unknown 25:42

Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

And it and it cost him a couple of hundred quid and a bit of time. That's knowing your audience and picking your customers.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

100%. I have um I won't say the guy's name, but he's uh he's a new client of mine, and I'll say it to him because you'll be you won't mind me telling you this. I had a call then the other day and he said uh he said we're all set up, he's got he's really invested in his business, he's got a great professional setup, he's got another successful business, but he said, I just can't, I'm just really struggling for the to get the roof cleaning working. And he told, I said, How are you marketing? And he said, Um, every day I uh I post in these notes, I just keep posting all like the neighbourhood groups on Facebook and stuff. He said, I've been banned from a few of them. And I said, You know, well, guess what's happening there? I said, These Karcher boys who you're competing with at the minute, I said, Guess what they all do? And he said, What? And I said, they all post in those groups like you. And he went, Oh my god, yeah. And I was like, You're doing the same behaviour. And and a lot of the time you don't they're just sleepwalking into it, don't they? They don't realise that they're doing it. But this can this can bring us on to the next bit, which is once you know your audience, you your marketing gets easy. So let's talk about that a bit. Obviously, we just touched on those those bits that the guy was doing. I know that guy as well, and uh I recommended that he he sent um video cards out. I don't know if you've ever seen those. So it's like uh you open like a brochure and there's a a screen in it with like a USB video loaded on and it says like, hey, this is me, and it's so much more personal, and that is how you attract it's it's class from that lad, it's it's really, really good. It's bang on the money. Um so market, okay. The marketing, let's talk a bit about that. So I guess once you've assuming you want to go after these high-ticket customers, and also it's worth saying they don't have to be these million pound houses, like, but you know, I think you want to go half a million at least. You want to because there might not be million pound areas where you are, but if you assuming you found the affluent areas, how how do we then streamline the market into it? Because the the the the the talking points in your in your social videos, in your ads, how you look, it's so different to let's just say the Karcher Boys, isn't it? So, what's the first thing we should we should look at? Should we say social media?

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah, I think I think social media tells social media is your shot window, right? It's your shot window. That's where people come to have a look at you. So they may find you through a paid ad, but then they'll go onto your social media. If your social media isn't what if it doesn't add value, if it isn't portraying the customer you want to work for, if it's portraying, you know, Jack of all trades, then you're gonna push people away. You know, giving people I I find the biggest the biggest um the biggest draw for my social media for clients is is the revisit videos. The the revisit videos or the um uh what they call the when I interview the the how the homeowner testimonials. Testimonials, that's the word, sorry, yeah. Testimonials that those get the most interaction and and when I speak to people they say, oh yeah, we looked, we love that you went back, you know, and they're all nice houses, right? They're all right up there in really good houses, really big houses, really expensive houses, and they love that I've gone back and refilmed them, and it it's it's double-edged, in it. It's me going back to check the chemicals doing the work, but I'm also collating the evidence of these houses. I film it while we're there, and then I film it three, four months later, and they those bits there draw people into my shop window, and they're the biggest, they're the biggest lead generation I get from social media is through those videos because people love that, they love that that I care enough to go back. Where and I spoke about this the other night on a on a one-to-one call with someone, you know, people are obsessed with chasing money, they're obsessed with chasing money early on, and what we need to change our mindset to slightly off track is chasing trust and reputation. If you build the trust and reputation in your shop window, the money will flow naturally, and people miss that, they just go on. And the guy I was speaking to had he had all these reviews right across all social media platforms, and hadn't replied to any of them, and it just looked like he was chasing the money, um, and and you can't you've you've gotta you've gotta chase the trust. Chase the trust, trace chase the trust, chase the reputation, the money will follow. And your customers can see that they can see people aren't stupid, right? People aren't stupid looking at your social media, they get an instant impression of who you are, who your company is, you know, and this all comes back, don't it, to being in front of a camera. People want to know who they are, they want to know that you are gonna come and look after their property, and that that's really key that and people miss that early on.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, we we spoke about this last week, didn't we? So we won't go over it too much, but it's it's like we said, it doesn't have a great name, this this industry overall, and if we want to go into these million pound properties, they have to trust us. And easy wins is social media and reviews and getting yourself in front of the camera. I've said it before. If you have if look, go back and listen to episode two if you if you don't know this, but getting in front of the camera is is just huge, it's it's important. Um, but also I think easy wins like just turning up in a branded top or like having your van wrapped, so simple. But if you if you come banging down the street and uh hear your exhaust banging out your van and you've got no wrapping on it, and one headlight's not working, and you turn up in some scruffy old overalls, what image is that? How are you how are you ever gonna expect to sell a two-three thousand pound roof clean or a big driveway clean? It's just not gonna happen. Everything has to align with what you want. You can't go after these expensive customers and not be aligned yourself, it's just it's not gonna work. You're not gonna pay for a first-class ticket, are you, with seats with holes in and rips in and you know, uh ununiformed cabin crew, it's just not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

And that all comes back to the very first um interaction they get, right? So if the first interaction is a paid ad, then it has to it has to be right, don't it? It has to be right, it has to be the very first interaction they get on this journey before they book you has to be right. So the paid ad has to be right, or your flyer has to be right, or your social media has to be right. However, they've got to you, your Google My Business has to be right. Everything has to tick a box because you're not gonna convert them. If they find you on a paid ad and your paid ad is polished, and they go, Yeah, I like that, brilliant. Or contact them, then they start looking behind the scenes, and everything else lets you down. That lead that you've got that cost you 12-15 quid ain't gonna go anywhere because you're letting yourself down. Everything is about image, reputation, and trust, and everything should hold the hand to build this trust, and that's how you get to your perfect customer. Because when they look at when they look at your social media, they go, Oh god, that looks like that's my house, that's my driveway, that's my roof. Brilliant, and then they see you, and it just all ticks the boxes.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Well, this leads us into the nicely, I think, into the next section, which is how to attract the wrong customers. Um phrase that you said that you did at your networking event last year, which really has always resonated with me. I've said it before, is would you know ask ask yourself, would you buy from you? How do an audit on yourself, how you look online, how you look visually, how your van looks, how you interact, and and would you buy from you? So let's talk about people if you wouldn't buy from you, attracting the wrong customers. Um first of all, cheap branding, I think something to mention, like we just mentioned, you know. If your if your socials aren't, you know, you got an awful lot. You know what? I don't want to slag people off, but you know them logos that look exactly the same. Do you know the ones I'm on about? It's just you're just gonna get put into that category for me. I I know I know that people don't really know where to start with logos and stuff, but if you there's logos that just you can see them a mile off, they look exactly the same, the same template, maybe even the same company that's done it. That's just one one red flag for me.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

I I for me, do you know what really bothers me with branding and logo in it? And this'll be another uh another podcast, but do you know what really bothers me is when it doesn't say what it does on the tin. I just it's just a thing with magic like that. Do you know what I mean? I think it needs to say what it does and where you do it very quickly. People need to get it. People have got a very short um uh what's it called? A very short attention span or uh yes, yes, yes, sorry. I'm having a murder day, aren't I? People have got a very short expensive time, and what they do is right, if they don't get it straight away, they move on. They move on. 100% they move on, they just move on, it's just the way it is, they scroll and move on. Um but but I think attracting the wrong customer, you're right. It and it all goes back, don't it? Everything goes back to what the customer you want. If you're if you're messing around, if you're stud smoking on site and you're doing cheap work, because what happens with cheap work, right? If you go and do a driveway or a roof for two, three hundred quid, right? And you do a good job, and you probably do do a good job, you're just really, really cheap. They tell everyone, they go and tell all their friends we've had our roof cleaned for two, three hundred quid. You can't go and put your prices up because you think they'll think you're ripping them off. So then you're in this cycle, then you're in this cycle of doing cheap work, and then you become known for cheap work, you become known as cheap work, Joe, and you just get them doing cheap work constantly, and then once you've set that precedence, how do you get out of it? You know, seriously, how do you get out of it? You're better off starting off with a higher price, getting everything we've spoken about nailed on, your marketing, your image, your branding, get it all nailed on, be polite, be professional, be early, you know, add value, all that. Because you can always slightly lower your prices, but you're gonna struggle if you start off at the 200 quid roof cleaning or the 200 quid driveway cleaning to get that to 700, 800 quid because you're gonna be known locally, you know, that's what you're gonna be known for. Facebook groups be like, oh yeah, you you use Joe, he cleaned our roof for 250 quid. You'd be mortified, wouldn't you? Yeah, you're just gonna be a busy fool earning no money.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Busy fools, that is that is it, that's bang on. That's what most people are in this industry. Not not slacking anyone anyone off, but it's the most common mistake, isn't it? You know, it's it's so and I get it because I've I've felt it before in business when things aren't going well, the temptation to just lower your prices, that's the first thing you go to because you assume that's what's that's what's the problem is, you assume oh, it must be the pricing. No, absolutely not. No, no, no. That is how you get stuck in it, and like Matt said, it's very, very hard to climb up then because you got recommendations, you can't be doubling the price for someone else on the same street, it's just not gonna happen. You're gonna get people asking for money back, or you know, that or it's that's what's gonna happen. It's it can't it can't lead anywhere good. I get maybe at the start you want to do a couple of cheap ones just to get going, maybe some family and friends, but once you are properly trading, has to be where you want to where you want to end up because you're not gonna get there otherwise. And and and most people just sink into that trap, hence why we said earlier September time. Look at these groups and the vans are for sale because that's what everyone does, and and that's that's how you attract the wrong customers.

SPEAKER_00 37:31

It's um and it is it is the base to the bottom, isn't it? It's the race to the bottom. You there's only one way it ends, right? It's only the number of people I speak to and they say to me, Oh, we're a bit we're a bit slow on work, do you think I should reduce my prices? I just like ah the minute you the minute you jump on that, the minute you jump on that slippery slide, that you can't stop it. You can't stop it. You know, reducing your prices is the last thing. If you've got the value and you've got the expertise and you're doing quality work, reducing your prices is the last thing. You need to be looking at your marketing and you should be looking at your social media to make sure that everything aligns. Because if you're not getting the work, if you're bloody good at what you do, and you know, there's a lot of most people in this industry are bloody good at what they do, right? They are really, really good at what they do. The pricing will be pretty much where it needs to be, right? But they're not busy, or they've got you know, going, I'm only busy for ten days. Are you busy for three months if I'm only busy for 10 days? You know, so something is missing, something is missing that you're not giving the audience, you're not giving your customer what they need to book you, and you need to pinpoint that. Lowering your prices ain't what people are looking for, so you need to make sure that you see what it is, and it might be as simple as getting you know, we you spoke about earlier, right? I do that at the networking days. I ask people to honestly look at their business from a consumer's point of view, and then the question is would you book you from what you can see online? And I would say 75% said no, I wouldn't book me. Yeah, simple exercise.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

I think probably that's the last point to mention there is that's what you should do if you can if you have something actionable that you can do today is audit yourself, your socials, your van, your image, your customer service, and say who ask yourself who what customers are are you attracting? And if it's not the customers that we're speaking about in this half, change it because otherwise you're racing to the bottom and you're not going to be in this long term. So that's definitely something you can do. Um that's actionable today. Um, okay, I think we've only got 15-20 minutes left. So I want to just go on to a bit of about competitions. That's customers there, understand your ideal customers. Hopefully, you found that interesting. Something to talk about now is your competition. Um, and it's important to do market research on this before you get going or at the start of your journey. Something to say to pre-qualify this is don't be obsessing about your competition every day, every week. That's something that's important to say, isn't it, first, Matt, before we get into this, because people are at different stages of the journey, people can go in years, people have different resources. Don't compare yourself. If you keep comparing yourself, you will always find someone doing better than you unless you're at the very, very peak of the business. So don't do that before we get into this. That's important, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 40:38

It is. I I um I take a completely different spin on what we call competition. Um and and I know it doesn't sometimes sit with everybody, and when I when I explain it to people, they're like, ah, really, I don't see anyone as competition. Anyone. I I I as competitors, I don't I don't see them right. I do what I do and I control what I do. I can't control all the other roof cleaners within a 10 mile radius of me. I can't control them. If they want to do it for a hundred pounds or they want to do it for a million pounds, if they want to go back and clean it six months later free of charge, I can't compete with that. I can't, I can't control, not compete, I can't control what they do. So what I would rather do is concentrate on what I can do, worry about my business, my delivery, my value, my services, and let them do what they do. And what I trend to do is help them if they ask for something, see if I can help them. Just see if you can see if you can collaborate with them, you know, because they're not they're not they're not competition to me, they're not competitors, they're just another team of lads or girls that are doing the same as me in the same area. There's enough work to go around for everything.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

You are not you are not gonna clean every single roof in the whole area and costly.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

No, exactly not, yeah. Exactly, because that comes back to customers, because my customers come to me for what I offer, they get their roof cleaning customers for what they offer. We're completely different customers, we are completely different customers. But I don't I I and this is my big thing with it. I hear, oh, you know, my competitors are doing this, they've slashed the prices, or you know, they're offering an extra whatever in. I'm like, ah, don't worry about it. Just do what you do, right? But on a side note, and I think you speak about this, and we've spoken about this, me and you, and I know you're very passionate with this, is take the good points from the good companies.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

100% yeah, you've got to you've got we don't have to, but uh throughout like history, really, I think, and any kind of business is just copy the successful people and do what they do. Do you put your own spin on it? There's a reason people are successful and they'll all have similar traits, be it an entrepreneur or be it a business, it doesn't matter, there's always similar traits. Um going off into like a different kind of path I won't go into too much. Like if you look at a lot of the time, these really successful entrepreneurs-I mean, this is more general, but they'll all have positive attitudes, they'll all work out, they'll all eat well, they'll all put proper hours into their business, they'll all focus on marketing, they'll all do the right things, won't they? Entrepreneurs, a lot of the time. And it's the same for cleaning businesses. You you look at the successful businesses, be it in your area or just in the country or anywhere, look at what they're doing, take all the good points from them, and and maybe don't do but the bad points of people who are struggling. Uh, an interesting exercise, uh I did this at the very start of my journey. I've said before in my videos, I um So I'm in Birmingham. I have a cleaning business. When I very first started, I made a spreadsheet and put 20 different competitors. Not to obsess about them, but just to see what's going on. So I had a I had a website column, I had uh customer service column, prices column, just to see what's going on. I rang 20 uh different businesses and 18 didn't answer. Two answered, and a few more got back to me via text a few days later. And I saw that and I was like, oh my god, like that is an open goal. If I can just first of all improve how I answer the phone and be prompt and improve my customer service, I'm already above 18 out of 20 uh competitors there. Easy win, just tick. And then I was looking at websites, I was looking at all the poor websites, like, okay, well, if I now just beat their website or do a better version of the website, I'm ahead again. Prices, ahead again. Check out their socials. If most people aren't posting, guess what? If I post more, tick, I'm ahead of them. And it's an easy exercise to do, I recommend doing it. Like I said, I weren't obsessing over them, but I was just seeing you just find your weaknesses in people, and then you and then any any things that people are doing better than me, I was going, okay, let's let me implement that. And and and it and it got me going very quickly.

SPEAKER_00 45:05

And you're right there, right? You know, business, business. You don't need to overcomplicate business, right? What you need to do is you need to find something that people are willing to pay for in the masses, find someone that's already doing it and improve it. That's all it is, is improve the service. Improve the service. You don't need to improve the product as such, you know. The bad company will probably clean the driveway as good as the good company, but the good company will make the value in the customer experience superb. But the driveway clean, at the end of the day, right? I you see them on social media, don't you? I watch cleaning videos of of other contractors day in, day out, because my feed's just full of it, right? And I see really, really good driveway cleans on every post. And then I look at the company, I look at the social medias, and one social media, one Google My Business will be absolutely shocking. But the driveway is as clean as the other business, and then I look at the other business and their social medias, the way they present themselves, the value they give their customers is bang on point, and that's where we miss that, right? We miss that you don't need to invent the wheel, just find something and make it better, make the experience better. I have done that personally over the last 10 months with the Cobra system. I've just made the experience better, I haven't changed the product, it's the same product, I've just made the experience better for the end user. I've removed the frustration. That's all I've done. Nothing else, I haven't invented the wheel, it's the simple things. Don't overthink it at the start. If you've if you've got if you want to say a competitor in your area is not getting back to clients, or like Michael said, the website's no good, the social media's good. Just build your company on them, build your company on them point, just be better. Your cleaning can be exactly the same, just make everything in value for the customer better, and you'll win the race. I promise you.

SPEAKER_01 47:22

I've said we've said before, you know, yes, you have to be good at what we do, but all we're doing is cleaning surfaces. This isn't rocket science. Yes, you're working at heights, yes, you gotta know your surfaces and chemicals, and you have to do that. But the hard bit isn't the cleaning, it really isn't. The hard bit is your branding and your business uh accrement and your marketing and all that kind of stuff. That's that's the hard bit. But most people don't focus on the hard bit, they just focus on the cleaning. And like you said, you know, if one these these companies who are really struggling to market themselves and and and don't um present themselves well, their drives are still really clean, fair play. But if you're looking at two companies, both do exactly the same thing, but one's really polished and professional, one isn't, it's a no-brainer who you're going with. And that's the key message I think here is easy, easy wins, but most people don't. It's uh it blows my mind, it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Yeah, they miss it, they just miss a trick. Um because we just try and uh we just try and overcomplicate things, don't we? We we think when we start, for anyone listening that's starting a business right, I and I I know because 25 years ago I started businesses and I've started a lot of businesses over my years, and at the start, until you understand you don't need to overcomplicate it, you know, you just don't need to overcomplicate a thing, just find something and make it better. That that's it, and every successful company in the world has done it. Look at Apple, look look what Apple did made the phone better, made the laptop better. They didn't overcomplicate it, they just made it better, they made everything, the way they deliver everything, the way they market it, the way they look after you as a customer, the main the way you the way they make you feel has won the race, hasn't it? You know, people people are queuing up for the next iPhone to come out, they're queuing round the block. It's no different, it's the same, it's the same folk, just but they make you feel special. Flying Emirates make you feel special. Buying a prestige car, they make you feel special. Having your house fully validated, if you can make them feel special, guess what? They're gonna tell their wealthy neighbours, friends, mate, we had this company round, they've cleaned our house top to bottom. The value, the service, everything about them was brilliant. Make them feel special. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

Yeah, I mean, just uh a friend of mine used to tell me, um, I get this right, he said he used to say, When you when you're in business, walk around and imagine someone, everyone on their forehead says PMMFS, please make me feel special. That's what he used to say. And just imagine everyone has got that on their forehead and apply it. Very quick, a very quick example. We're we're remortgaging in a few months. It's time to remortgage, and we've been using a company that have been just fucking dreadful, man. They're so poor. And uh, but we paid a lifetime fee to them about eight years ago, so we paid it and we can use them forever. But we've changed this time because we found a local company and they're so good, they're so friendly, uh, efficient, and getting back to you, do it, they're such more much so much more personal. So we've paid the fee again, even though we had a lifetime fee to this old company. Someone else has come along and gone, pff, don't worry about them. And I'm going, Yeah, absolutely. And that's a classic example, like a perfect example. I'm willing to spend.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Yeah, it is, and people are willing to spend, you know, people say there's no money out there, right? People say we're on the we're on the brink of a recession and there's no money out there, right? Everyone's flat out busy, everyone's flat out busy, you know, and and I think it is if you can make people feel special and and then they feel they're getting value from what you're delivering, then and everything else aligns, you're always gonna be busy, you're never gonna be out of work, you know, because it is people want that they and people are prepared to pay for that, aren't they? People are prepared, you know. We we're talking about Emirates, right? You know, and the iPhone. The new iPhone, what £2,000 a phone? Yeah, does exactly the same job as a pay as you go from Tesco's for 30 quid. Exactly the same job. You put numbers in, and I can speak to you. But why? Because Apple make you feel special. Have you seen the packaging it comes in? Yeah, see how it gets delivered to you? Everything makes you feel special, and you're willing to pay £2,000. You're willing to pay. I I looked at Emirates to Dubai, right? It was something like six and a half thousand pounds to fly first class, but I could fly in Economy for 800 quid on the same plane, on the same plane, but people are paying for it. Why? Because they make you feel special, and that's what this is about. Find the customers, make them feel special, and they will pay whatever it is you ask for.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

That's it. So uh my camera stopped halfway through, so I don't know what time we're on. Clayton, what time are we on? Ask your cameraman how long we got left. Did it say? 52 minutes. Right, okay, we've got eight minutes, right? Okay, cool. So, um okay, I've got a question for you. So in this part of the uh show, we do uh one question each unprepared. Don't know if you have time to prepare one, Matt. I've got one written down that I had the other day. Um shall I go first with you? Yeah, you go first, yeah. I've got um, what is the if you if you've had one, the worst customer experience you've had for your cleaning business?

SPEAKER_00 52:40

That's my question!

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Was that yours? Yeah. Well, okay. Oh, right. Well I've asked it first.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

Okay. Um God, that was my question to you. You throw me now. What was my what's my worst customer experience in 25 years? Um I've had a couple. I've had a couple, what was the worst? Um I've had a customer go bust on me commercially.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Oh, you told that story before. I think it was in the last episode of the or the first one, the guy who uh owed like a million quid or something, was it?

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Yeah, that that that that that one is the worst. Anyone that goes bust on you and owes your money, you know, it takes you so long to recover from that. It took me so long to recover from that, personally, because I thought it was a per it wasn't a person, I think it was a business. He went, but he he was a con man on a major scale, but it personally, personally took me a long time, a long time, and I still talk about it today, you know, 10 years later, and I still it still pains me. That that is probably the worst customer experience, someone going bust on you. I don't think they're going to be worse.

SPEAKER_01 53:53

That's that's the worst that I can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yeah, that that that's the worst for me. Absolutely the worst for me, someone going bust on you. Because you you know, it the the profit's only a small percentage, innit, right? If it's 30 grand, if three grand of its profit, but everything else is cost. So you you've then got to work the whole yeah, I don't think we ever recovered properly, you know, from that to earn that money back in profit to wipe that debt out, it's so hard. Especially for small businesses, it is so so so hard. Um, yeah, that would be mine. I need a question for you now on the Well, I can answer the same one if you want.

SPEAKER_01 54:35

But uh for the cleaning, I've been quite lucky. Um, I haven't had anyone insanely bad, but one that comes to mind is there was a guy, this was last summer, and I I it's when I did my first 10k month, so I was I was buzzing, and he asked me to do his roof, and I gave him a quote, and he uh he he knocked tries to knock me down and I said no. And he tries to knock me down again, I said no, and he kept messaging me saying, Can you please do it for this price? And in the end, I made the classic error that we spoke about and I I caved and I said, Go on then, yeah, I'll just do it. Why not? I can fit him in, I've been and out in a day. Mate, the whole time I did a job, he was I swear this isn't an exaggeration, he uh watched over my shoulder the whole job, he stood outside, he took a day off work, he watched me, and if I'm if like a tiny bit of moss had been left, he'd go, Michael, can you do that? And then when I was um when I was emptying the gutters, he stood in his top window and opened the window and looked out, and he'd go, Oh Michael, there's a tiny bit of dirt left there, and he made me clean the whole gutters out, and he went on and on and on, and then he was late to pay. And that's a classic example of the wrong customer. He was completely the wrong customer, but it's my mistake for accepting it. But that was that was my most annoying customer last year, and I and it taught me a lesson never to do it again. As soon as you drop your price, you're weak then. And also, just one final part on that the customers who are willing to pay the least are the ones who moan the most. That's that's something to think about because that's what I found throughout all my businesses so far.

SPEAKER_00 55:59

And and I think we'll do a short, maybe we'll do a short pod on um red flags for customers.

SPEAKER_01 56:05

Oh, yeah, let's do that.

SPEAKER_00 56:06

Because that's quite that's quite an interesting subject, innit, um, and topic. Red flags, red flags, and I think over longevity you start to get and see and understand what red flags look like, and and I think if you can notice them early on, I think you you you save yourself, you know. And and the best thing about red flags is right, just double the price there and then.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

You rock up, you rock up, everything's been good until you get out your vehicle, you go to the front door, and then something happens and you go, Oh shit, red flag. Whatever price you went, you because you know the price before you've even got there, right? You know the price, just double it, double it. If it's a if it's a if it's a two grand roof clean, the minute you say to you, how much do you think it's gonna be, Matt? Four grand. We have to get back to you. Okay, yeah, brilliant. Wait till we hear from you. Get in your van and go. Just double it.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Right. I I don't know if we're going over it. This could be the first one we go over, I'm sure. So I'm gonna are we on 57 minutes. Okay, we'll wrap it up there then. So yeah, I think that's been a really good episode. I think um some things to take away is audit yourself, would you buy from you, take a look at everything to do with your business and see what kind of customers are you attracting, and if it's the wrong ones, change yourself and change how you're operating, and then find out where these nice customers are and try and find them. And I think um I think you'll have a much more successful business long term. So um, so yes, that's episode three. Um, Matt, you enjoyed it? Yeah, I did, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

And one for me is don't try and sell to everyone because you'll sell to no one. Oh, yes, good one. But I I yeah, I enjoy them, mate. I enjoy um I just think the value people get from it is just massive. The messages we've been getting already in such a short time, people are really buying in and going, mate, that's really helped me that. Thank you. Yeah, I hope so. That's what drives it for me.

SPEAKER_01 57:58

Any any podcast suggestions for episodes, like ping them over to us via message um or any questions for each, so we maybe we'll introduce that in a few weeks' time. Um but yeah, man, I'm I'm enjoying it. Uh, episode four is going to be about branding and marketing, so it's a nice follow on from this, so stay tuned for that one. Um, but yeah, thank you very much for listening. Um we'll uh we'll see you in episode four. See you on the next one. Take care.