Episode 5: Financial Management

In this episode of The Clean Hour, we tackle one of the most overlooked aspects of running a successful pressure washing business — understanding your finances.

Many business owners focus on winning more work, but without understanding profit, cash flow, pricing, and expenses, it's easy to stay busy while struggling to grow.

We discuss:
✅ The difference between revenue and profit
✅ Why cash flow matters more than most people realise
✅ Common financial mistakes business owners make
✅ How to price your services for profit
✅ Simple budgeting techniques
✅ Understanding the key numbers that drive growth

Whether you're just starting out or already running an established pressure washing business, this episode will help you gain confidence in your finances and make smarter business decisions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the fifth episode of the Clean Hour Podcast. Hope you're all enjoying the episode so far and you're all doing well. And I hope business is good. So we're back at it today, episode five, and today's all about money, finances, financial management, and it's a big, it's probably the biggest um concern that keeps people and business owners up at night. So it's really important to get a grip of it, and we're going to dive into it today. So joining me as always is Matt. Matt, are you good?

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Yes, um, good, stressed, busy, overworked, and on the paid. But yeah, I'm good, pal. I'm really good, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Good man, good man. Sorry if I sound a bit strange today. You know what? Because it's been so hot. We've had like two fans blasting us at night and the windows open. Blot nose. You're on your holiday and you the air con gets you. That's what I feel like. It feels awful. So sorry if I sound a bit hot.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Cool. So let's get into it, man. So finances. Um, like I just said in the intro there, I think this is what keeps most people up at night. Would you agree in terms of business owners? Because um, a lot of people they just wing it and they don't budget, they don't well there's so many issues, but we'll get into them in this in this episode. But um would you agree that finances are kind of a biggest issue for a lot of business owners?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The number of business owners I I speak to on a weekly basis that that really have no financial understanding at at all. You know, and and I was I was one of them many, many years ago, and it's only through trial and error that you get this understanding of and and you have to realise how important numbers are. Numbers, you know, my my accountant used to say to me, and he still does say to me, numbers don't lie. They don't lie. You can think you are busy and you can think you are doing really well, but numbers will tell you what you're doing. And they never lie. They never ever lie. And and people miss this really early on. They don't understand profit, they don't understand cash flow, they just think because they're busy, that that everything's great, and it really isn't. Understanding the numbers and setting your prices and your structure around numbers is is massively important, massively.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, we'll get into the the mistakes, I think, later on, but there's people either don't charge enough or they don't track their expenses or they don't look at forecasts. There's so many issues, um, reasons for the issues basically. Um but I think the first thing to talk about is knowing your numbers. So last year when we first met, um I think it was probably meet in one that we had, that we just went straight into this, and it was one that I'd never even thought about. But going back to what someone else had taught, you know, this we can mention entrepreneurs' circle that we've both been a part of at some point. Um, I remember them saying um revenue is vanity, uh, profit is sanity, cash is king. Until they said that to me, I'd I'd never even thought about it, and then it clicked when they said that, but then then you kind of drilled it home when we first started speaking. I think you asked me how much does it cost me to run my business a day? That was one of the first things you asked me. I didn't have a clue, never even thought about it. Um I reckon if you asked that to you know 10 10 pressure washing owners, I reckon eight or nine don't know the answer to that. So, why is it important to know your numbers? And if you don't know it, what's the first thing that you should do to kind of get the ball rolling with that, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Uh yeah, I mean you're right. I I do ask that question to everybody that that I work with. Um, and you're right, that the the percentage of people that know it is is very, very, very slim. And and it's really important, right? Because knowing your numbers and knowing what it costs to run your company allows you to set your price. So, for example, if you are if you are still working per square meter, or you're working by the hour, or even by working by the day rate, right? Whatever your structure is to get money into the business. So let's say you're working on day rate, and these numbers I'm just gonna pluck from thin air, right? You may have you, a couple of vans, and let's say you've got two or three blokes working for you, and maybe you've got a part-time admin staff, right? If you don't know what that costs to run per day, but you in your own mind says, right, what we need to earn, we need to earn a thousand pounds a day, right? We need to earn a thousand pounds. So everything you're pricing and every job you're booking in for that day is making up to a thousand pound, and you're smashing it, you're doing your thousand pound and everything's great, right? A little bit of a struggle some days, but you're getting there, you're hitting your thousand pound target. If you don't know your numbers, how did you get to the thousand pound? And this is the problem I say. So then when we go back through the numbers and we take everything into consideration of what we speak about fuel, insurances, miscellaneous breakdowns, wages, national insurance, tax, everything that goes into it, marketing. What happens if that number becomes let's say it becomes 950 pounds to run your company a day? You're making £50. There's no leeway then for any breakage. What happens if that number becomes £1,050? So you're losing now £50 a day if you execute the day perfect with no issues. Your van doesn't break down, you don't break a tool, you know, nothing goes wrong, you don't have to give a discount because you haven't done something, everything has to run like clockwork. So now you're already £50 down. Well, over the week, that's £250 down. Over the month, you're a grand down, and people don't see this because it's it's cash flow coming in. If you're invoicing a grand a day, you think you're doing well, but if your numbers aren't there to start with, you can't set the basis of what you need to charge. So if your company is £995 a day to run, that's got to be your start point, and then you put your profit miscellaneous on top of that. So to actually you now need to invoice £1,500 a day, £1,600 a day, because nine nine five is to run the business, and the rest is for miscellaneous and profit. So that's the important bit that people really miss from day one. They don't get that.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah, I think most people listening to this won't be doing that, I won't know that, and that's not to have a go, it's just the reality when we don't think about these things. I certainly never. I'm guessing the point you didn't before you knew it. Um, and I think it's all about um expectations as well. Like we were talking before a minute ago, someone was saying what they wanted to earn in a year, and I actually had a message off someone yesterday um on WhatsApp who said if he can take home 55k a year from pressure washing, he'd be happy. That's what you said. He said it would do him. And I'm thinking I said to him, Yeah, but you've got to think of all the other all the other things like you just said um your marketing, your kit, your petrol, your hypo, everything, your 20% tax, all of that kind of stuff, your dividends tax if you're gonna pay yourself that way. Um you just you can't if you have a goal in mind like 50k a year, which is you know, you fair enough, you might be able to do it, but if you don't know how to get there, then you're just not gonna do it, and you're gonna be very disappointed at the end of the year, end of the year, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Yeah, it it it's a it's uh I think if you're starting off right, if you're starting off right at the start, it it's a lot simpler because there's probably just you and your van and your tools, you know. You've probably put a cash injection in. Let's say you put a cash injection into your business to start off, and let's say you've put five grand in, right? You put five grand in, you bought the bits you need, then all you're really looking at is your marketing, what what's that costing you? You're looking at your insurances, what's that costing you, your fuel, and then you're looking at what you want to earn. So it's really simple to get it right. And if you get it right on day one, then as you grow, you just keep adding those expenses to it, and then it keeps moving your price. But what I see happen is, and and I hear it, I hear this, not just in exterior cleaning, but in all businesses, right? And when I speak to people, I say, When was the time you put your prices up? They go, Oh, got a no, no, I haven't, no, I haven't, because I'm scared of losing customers. And I say, What? You haven't put them up this year? No. Did you put them up last year? No. When did you last put them up? Oh, we've been this price, we've been, and I'm making this number, we've been we've been 35 pounds an hour for the last six years. I'm like, wow. So everything has gone up in the last six years, fuel has gone up, labour's gone up, materials have gone up, inflation's gone up, and you're still the same price. Yeah. How? Your prices should go up every single year, like clockwork, every single year. But people are terrified of um of losing customers, and you shouldn't be. You've got you're in this to make profit, right? You're not in it to do people a favour, you're not doing it as a hobby, it's not, oh yeah, I'm gonna go and clean X for so and so, because it's a mate and it's a favour. It's not, it's a business, and numbers build, everything is built on the numbers, and you've really got to get it right at at this early stage. The smaller you are, the easier it is. When you're a bigger established company, trying to work it out and unpick it all is a nightmare, believe me.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, for sure. I think it's very easy as an exterior cleaning business owner to be a busy fool. Um, and what we mean by that is doing loads of jobs out on the tools every single day, but charging peanuts or charging half of what you you should be charging. Because yeah, okay, you might be doing two driveways a day, but charging 120 quid a drive. But then when you get home and you people don't do it but minus your petrol, minus your hypo, minus your sand, minus the diesel for your van, all of that kind of stuff. You're earning you could be earning nothing, um, and you're putting all your time into this cleaning every single day, five, six days a week, and at the end of the month, you you're just left with nothing. So let's talk a bit about pricing then. Something that's interesting when um you said to me was about charging a a day rate instead of a per square metre. And I've I took this on board with my cleaning business and I and I've preached it to clients of mine, and and I can see when I say it's they just they don't really agree with it or don't get it, but for me it makes perfect sense. Um so let's talk about that. So, what what we mean by that is most people, if they were to measure a roof or a drive or a patio or whatever, they would probably go on Google Earth and measure it out, and then they'd have an amount charged per square metre and they just times it, and that's the price that they would get. Maybe they might add sand onto that. But the problem with that is that you can't, it's not predictable, is it? It's not repeatable. You can't if if you if you work out that you need to earn, let's say, £500 a day, if you're charging per square metre, they're all going to come out at different different prices, and it's harder to hit that £500. Whereas if you said, Okay, on £250 a drive and that's it minimum. So you all you have to do then, you know, two a day gets you to that £500. So that technique really helped me and it really helped me to grow. And anyone else who I've mentioned it to, it's helped them as well. So why do you why is that important to you, Matt, and and any advice for people who maybe aren't sure of that method of pricing?

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, um, I mean, firstly, with that method of pricing, it it's a mindset game, right? People don't want to implement that that method of pricing because when they go and see a drive or a roof that may be small and they've set the drive. Let's talk drive. I don't clean driveways, but I'll talk driveways. Let's say I've said I'm not doing anything under 300 pound a driveway, right? But I know that people are doing it for whatever square footage and they're gonna clean that driveway for £150. It's a mindset thing, but it doesn't matter, you don't need to win every job. What you need to do is know your numbers and set the price. If you need to earn £300 a driveway, then that's it. You now need to change it and bring value, not square footage. People are pricing on square footage because that's the industry norm. The industry norm is to price on square footage. Well, all you're doing is you're leaving money on the table and you're leaving gaps in your work, you know. Yes, you may have to get more leads in to sell more because you are stuck with those prices, and and you but once you've got that iron in, then it's absolutely fine. So my my roof cleaning um is a thousand pounds a day, and it doesn't matter if it's a one-bed bungalow or a three-bed detached, it's a thousand pounds a day. That that's it, it doesn't change. And if I finish at 12 o'clock of a two-bed bungalow, it it's a thousand pounds. If I finish at five o'clock on a four-bed detached, it's a thousand pounds. But what that allows me to do is I can look at my calendar and I can see exactly for the next three months what's coming into the business. I know what my costs are to run my business, I know what the profit margin is, and I know when the cash is coming in because every day is that thousand pounds. It doesn't change, it just doesn't change. That is the minimum day rate. We never go below that, uh, we go above it because some jobs need extra work, and we don't mind going above that, but we'll never go below that. And it is all because people have got this mindset, they are worried that if they set a price of £300 a drive, they're never gonna clean a drive again. I don't think that's right. I know it's not right in the roof, I know it's I know people do that in the roof cleaning. I'm competing with people that are charging four, five, six hundred pounds per roof. Well, how can people justify paying me a thousand pounds? Because of the value I bring to the job, it's not just price, you know. People that are having roof cleans aren't just shoppers on price, they're shoppers on value. And if you change your mindset early on and you learn how to sell at your day rate, then you will change the game with predictable weekly earnings rather than well, tomorrow's £200, then it's a £300 day, then it's a £700 day. You can't live like that, you can't. You've got to get it right now and change it. That's what I would advise.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yeah, well, this goes back to the episode. I don't know if it was last episode or a few before was knowing your audience because if you are just pricing square meter and trying to be the cheapest, there will always be someone cheaper than you, and then it's a race to the bottom. I recommend I've been reading um Alex Hormozy, the um the entrepreneur. Well, he's got he's got two main books, hasn't he? He's got um 100 million pound leads, 100 million pound um offers. And the offers basically talks about there's two kinds of offers there's commodity and grand slam offer. Commodity is when you're just going for price, so that's what most people go for, so just try and be the cheapest. But then your grand slam is how can you package something to make it an irresistible offer that someone can't say no to? For example, you know, like you said, there's people charging less than you, but you you package yours up as in your air, your safer, you're this, that, and the other. And then when you get into that that realm, then you're not competing with these the people who are racing to the bottom, the carcher boys as they're known. So, do you think it's a confidence thing? Do you think it's people don't believe that they can get to a point where they can charge that, and then they just kind of their safety is oh everyone else charges square meter in these discourses and YouTube, so I've got to do it. Do you reckon that's what it is?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Yeah, 100%. Uh uh through the through the mentoring that I do with business owners, when we get to the sales and pricing, we we teach how to sell and we teach how to structure sales, and we have the three tiers, A, B, and C, um, and it's mind-blowing. And once they've done it once, they never look back, they never look back. It changes the game for them, but it is completely about confidence and it's about the mindset, and people are absolutely terrified. People don't like talking about money, right? They don't like talking about money. There is this, this. I think it's a very British thing that we don't like talking about money, we don't like talking about wealth, we don't like talking about pricing. We find it's a very British trait that we have. Where if you go across the water to America, they're talking about every day, all day, every day. They've got no problems with it. We have got this very British culture that we don't talk about it. How long have we been trying to tell people to give the customer a price on the doorstep when you're in the garden with them? You know, we are bang on about that religiously, and I still have clients come to me and they're going, oh yeah, go, and then I go home and then I send them an email with all the prices. Just ah, stop it, right? Stop it. When you're stood in front of them, give them the price. But we don't, because people feel it's just a British culture. We feel I don't know what it is, I think we're embarrassed about it. And if you're embarrassed about your own prices, you're gonna struggle to sell. You're just gonna struggle to sell. You've got to be confident in your own prices. If you want to charge £500 for a patio cleaner day, then that's it, just be confident. Be confident it, yeah, it's £500, take it or leave it. Wow, that's expensive compared to what? Well, I don't really know. Okay, well, this is why it's £500. I've spent the last 10 years training to do this professionally and safely and transform that patio. My equipment, my van, my skills, everything that goes into it gets me to £500 a day. Okay, yeah, well, I can now see the value in it. Brilliant. Can I get you booked in? And it's not being arrogant and it's not being a knob about it, it's just you know, people forget. I've spent 25 years, 26 years now, learning about business. The ups and downs, right? When people say to me, God, your mentoring's 3,700. Yeah, that's expensive. I said, compared to what? I said, There's mentors out there that are doing it at £12,000, £20,000. I'm still cutting my teeth, but I've spent 26 years of building my knowledge to give it to you, and I'm confident that that's the price. And it's you've got to be confident in your own skin to talk about it and not not be embarrassed about it because it's it's your skill set, innit? If you're an exterior cleaner and and you've spent five years crafting your trade, why are you giving it to someone for pens? Be be proud of what you do. I see all your pictures, I see all your time lapses, I see all your work, you do fantastic work, and then I see you have a conversation about pricing, and you're doing it for pens, and it is it's the mindset people are terrified to talk about money and actually price it what it should be because they're scared of not winning work, and that's a real bad thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I think there's two things. One, I don't think the British like being uncomfortable, so like uncomfortable silences, addressing like taboo issues, that kind of thing. There's that in that culture. Um, but what you just touched on, I think it's more of a fear of of of loss, of not making money, of losing the job, because it's interesting when I last uh last September, last October, sorry, before I set up this agency, I was testing all the ads and and the AI system on my own cleaning business with the intention to not clean. I don't know if I should say it with the customers, but if I doubt the customers are listening, I basically ran ads, tested the AI system, but I had no intention of booking the jobs in, so I was seeing if the leads were coming. As if you remember that I was going out to the quotes and getting feedback and all that. And it was funny because because I didn't want the job, right? I didn't want the job at all. I had no intention to do because I was building the agency. I'd get there, and I remember there was the first. I don't know if I sent you a message when it happened. I set the ads live on the Saturday. I had four in-person quotes on the booked in for the Sunday. On the Monday, I went to them and I just gave them day rate prices. What I was thinking, what if I had to do this job, what would I want for it? And I was I was overcharging by like probably 25% because I didn't want to do the job, and three out of the four wanted to book, and it's because I had I wasn't worried about not getting the job. The confidence must have been coming out of me because I I was just like, yeah, this is the price, take it or leave it. I remember it, I remember it clearly. And three or four, three out of four of them booked. But if that was me, sorry, if that was me six months ago before that moment, I would have been I would have been terrified to not get the job. I would have probably lowballed it, and I probably would have gone home and gave it to them via what WhatsApp instead of on the on the doorstep. So it's confidence, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Massively, and and we have that um we have that thing that I I speak about that if you can sell from a place of confidence and a place of not arrogance, but I don't care whether you give me the job or not, the sale is so much simple, right? People can people can sense desperate when you're desperate in your voice, right? When you're desperate for work, and then people will sense it, and then they know there's a deal to be had, and they know they can drive you into the ground on price. If you're stood in someone's garden talking about a roof clean, right, and they say to you, um how much is it? Say it's a thousand pound. See that pause then, you don't say anything. I just say it's a thousand pound and then I let them speak. Once they speak, you've pretty much got the sale. Never ever say it's a thousand pounds. And the reason why it's a thousand pound, because I do this and I do that, and I'm like, that's it, you've you're gonna talk yourself out of it. Tell them the price and stop. Don't say a word. There's an awkward silence, let them speak. Let them make the first word, right? But you've got to have that error of confidence that you don't care. You don't care. You don't care whether you get it or not. Because it it literally puts them into a position of okay, yeah, I'll yeah, I'll have that book keybook as in. Bang, done. Y honestly, there's so many, there's so many ways to sell and so many tricks to sell. And they're not really tricks, they're just they're just mannerisms and how you present yourself when you're speaking to people. But once you get that, bit people I see people that they're desperate because they may only be two weeks booked up, three weeks booked up, and I can hear when I speak to them, I can hear it in the voice talking to me about it. Never mind talking to a customer. You've literally got to go to that quote before you get out of your van, say to yourself, I couldn't give a flying fuck if I don't get this job. Walk up, meet the customer, be professional, be short, be sweet, give them the price, don't say a word, let them speak, close it, walk off. That's it. That that that is it really, really quickly.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Um we'll get into sales probably probably next episode, but that's it's a great point to to make. I think put it into put it into any other industry, right? If you were to buy something, I don't know, a pint of beer, some food, a holiday, whatever. And imagine if you were buying it and the person who was charging you was sounded really nervous and was like and almost doubting the price, you'd be thinking, hang on a minute, why are they am I getting lower into something here? Why is it not going to be a good holiday? Is the point of beer flat? Do you know what I mean? Like you'd be doubting the product. So and it's no different in this. It's absolutely no different. If you if you want if you if you if you if you don't think you're good enough to charge this, then brush it upon your skills and make make sure that you are good enough to justify it. And once you are good enough, there's no reason why you can't charge this. Why can't you? Charge whatever you want, whatever has to make your business work, you have to charge. Otherwise, you'll be bust in September, like a lot of people in this industry.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Absolutely, and we speak about that all the time. Why do people leave this industry? It's not because they're not good at they're not good at what they do, but not everybody's built right. Not everyone's got the mentality to be a business owner, because it is the most loneliest place on the planet, and things go wrong by the hour, right? And your mentality needs to be absolutely built in for this, and if you're not selling, that adds more pressure, you know. Marketing and sales are top of the list. We speak about this in the light in a couple of the like the previous episodes. You don't have to be the best cleaner, you need to be the best marketeer and the best seller. That will close the work for you. But we just struggle with this, it is a real thing. But it all leads back to the numbers, doesn't it? You can't sell until you know what your number is. You you can't do it. You you you just you're just guessing, and you should never guess with numbers. Never guess with numbers and money, ever. Top tip.

SPEAKER_01 24:54

I think the biggest thing that kills businesses is cash flow. Would you agree with that? Because cash flow can make or break a business. Um in previous businesses, I I hadn't paid attention to that, and I remember months of stress when it came to like end of year and all that kind of stuff. Um, what do you reckon? Well, what's the best practice do you think for cash flow for a cleaning company in terms of like payment terms, how they take payments, um, and then what they do with their money? Because I I know people who are making good money, but they don't invest it, they just spend it, they just take it out of the business. They don't put aside like a marketing budget, they don't put their away their taxes, their dividends tax, all that kind of stuff. So, why um what tips do you have for kind of managing cash flow and keeping that healthy in a in a cleaning business?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

I I would say that the one of the best things to do is, and a lot of people don't do this right, is take deposits on order, minimum 20% non-refundable, because it stops cancellation, so it stops putting holes in your diary. So the first thing you need to do is take deposits. A lot of people don't like taking deposits again because it's asking for money, they're terrified to ask for money. Don't take a deposit, take a 20% non-deposit, a non-refundable deposit, and tell them why. Tell them because you're that in demand, you need to book that date for them. Once you give them a date, that's their date, and their 20% deposit secures that that's the first thing. Take a deposit. Secondly, when you're doing the sales bit and you say to them that it's a 20% deposit, and then say once you're happy with the work, and I hand it over to you at the end of the project, we ask for payment in 24 hours and be rigid with that, so there's no there's no misunderstanding from day one. You pay 20% to secure your job, and then within 24 hours, you pay your full your full balance. That allows you to have cash trickling in to your business every day. So if I flip it to my business, I've got a thousand pound coming in a day, every day. That allows me to pay people, to pay the staff, to pay suppliers, to build, to grow, to fix things. Without that, if you're not rigid with that, then you know, if someone's holding payment, if you're letting people, if you're a busy one man band and you're not on top of your admin money-wise, and people are being there, right? Oh yeah, I'll do it at the weekend, I'll chase all them. You could be looking back that you're owed 10-15 grand, right? And you think it's brilliant because it's like a little savings account, but it isn't, because the admin time now to chase all that, it just becomes a nightmare. You need to have it running like a military operation, you know, have it set out from the quote, the deposit, do the work 24 hours. At 25 hours, you're chasing, you're literally chasing them. You know, that you're not they're not friends of yours. It's this is a financial transaction. You have delivered your part, their part that they agreed to is paying you within 24 hours. You really have to be on it, right? Then you asked about how how we work with our money once we've got it. So, one of the best things I did, um, and I mean there's other bank accounts that did this, but I run my business on a metal bank account, and it allows me to set up pots, and I've got the VAT pot, the tax pot, the salary pot, the miscellaneous pot, and the profit pot. And what I've done is I've got a figure, a percentage that every single payment that comes into my bank, before it drops into my main account, it gets ciphered off into all these pots. So 20% goes straight into the VAT, 20% goes straight into profit, you know, 15% goes into salary, 10% goes into miscellaneous, or whatever the pots are, then what's left in the current account is what I've got as what I call the war chest, but then I'm not worried about the VAT, I'm not worried about the salaries. I know what I earn a day, I know where the percentages are, it all drops in. And and that isn't something that I've come up with. There's a great book called Profit First, and if I would really strongly recommend anybody to get the audio version of it, stick it on your on your radio, on your van in the mornings when you're and listen to Profit First.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Who who who did that? Sounds good, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:36

And you know what?

SPEAKER_01 29:37

For the life of me, Mike, Michael, Michael Witz.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Sorry, that's mispronounced horrendously.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Get that book, listen to it. It will change your relationship with money and how you run your business accounts. I promise you. That is a must-read by everybody that's in business. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Interesting, interesting. There's some great points you just mentioned there. The first one I want to pick up on is deposits, really interesting. I would say it's split with probably my clients and people I speak to in favour of and against it. I made I was one who made the error with this. So when I very first started in the January with the cleaning business, I made it a priority to take deposits, especially for roof cleans. Um, but what I was finding was I I I bowled it basically because when people would question the deposit, if they'd say, Oh, I don't really want to pay this up front, I'd I'd be like, Oh, okay, no worries, and I'd just cave in straight away because I was new to business, I wanted to make money, wanted the bookings. But what I should have realized is it's that they're the customers you don't want really, because if they're not willing to pay 10-20% of the job, they're probably not gonna be comfortable paying the full the remaining 80-90%, are they? And that you're probably gonna have issues with them down the line, and also it doesn't it doesn't secure the job, does it? Because it's if people if someone pays you 10 or 20% of a roof clean, they're not just it's unless they're absolutely millionaires and they don't care about money, then they're they're gonna go continue with the job even if it's in two or three months' time, they won't want to lose that money. Um and I I I I learned the hard way, man. I turned up to a few jobs and and they don't they didn't want any more. Sorry, I completely forgot, forgot to cancel. Yeah, and and you lost, and that is a big, big killer of cash flow, isn't it? Because then you're out of pocket for the whole job. But it's it was purely confidence thing. I I bottled it when people started uh questioning it.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

It it is, and and and it's not so what happens with deposits is right, and we get this, we get this quite a lot. Like we we send them a price, they say yes, get us booked in, we send them the deposit invoice, and then we don't hear off them, right? We don't hear off them. They've told us they're going ahead, and we chase and chase and chase, and then about four days later, they say, Oh, we've changed our mind. So, what they're doing is this is what I believe they're doing is they agree you now to get a date, don't ask for the deposit invoice, don't pay it, but allowing them to shop round for cheaper quotes, they get a cheaper quote and then cancel you, right? That and that that that's absolutely fine, and that does happen quite a lot to not all the time, but it does happen. But you you are like I I harped on a minute ago, this isn't a charity, you're running a business, right? You are running a business, you ask for a deposit, you explain why you take a deposit, because you are in high demand for the value and the services that you bring to that person's house. So to secure your space, I need to secure you and lock you in. If you need to change your date once it's locked in, that's absolutely fine. You don't lose deposit, but if you cancel, you lose your deposit, you know, and and you've got to be strong with that. But people don't do it. But like you said, people would rather turn up and go, Oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot to cancel it. Oh, brilliant, you've lost money. No, take take deposits. Take if you take anything away from this podcast today, take deposits. Start tomorrow taking deposits. Learn how to position it, how to package it, and how to explain it to people. And take deposits, you will secure. I'm booked up. My next roof clean is the 16th of September, is my next availability. All with 20% deposits paid.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Peace of mind, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Absolutely. Absolutely, no problems at all, you know, and and once you get that, you know, once you get confident with that, then you literally can. It's just rinse and repeat. The conversation doesn't change, it's the same conversation on repeat. That's all it is. It's on repeat. And once you've nailed it, you just keep repeating it, repeating it, and repeating it, repeating it. But it will set you up. You will thank us in six months' time when you've got cash coming into your business. If you're selling every day, right? If you're selling, let's just say you're let's say your day rate is a thousand pounds, right? And you're selling one one every three days, right? So not only are you getting your thousand pounds in every three days, you're also getting 20% in every three days. So you you've got more cash coming into your business, but you need to be clever with that. That 20% needs to go into one of your pots, and then you take that out on the days that you're working, because then it still gives you your thousand pound money. You with me? That that's you need to be a bit clever with it.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

The pots are interesting because I I do that. I have metal from the cleaning business, and I do exactly the same. I have the little formula set up so it takes the 20%. I have Revolute for my agency, we you can do a similar thing. Um, but the issue is because I you know, I'm talking like six, seven years ago in previous businesses when I didn't know what I was doing at all. Some would argue I still don't, but um, I I never did any of that. And then when it came to end of the year and I got to do myself assessment and then the corporation tax, I just a lot of the time it wasn't there. I was having to go into profits because I wasn't putting any aside. And I think if you don't put it aside into pots, even from the start, it's very easy to then never do it. So if you just let it slide for a month or two, you won't you'll never get back into it, and it becomes a cycle then because you'll you just want to spend it, or you have to spend it then because you've not got it, if that makes sense. But if you have it and you don't touch it, you'll be so thankful when it comes to it because there's not the pressure's off then. Uh and a lot of the time you might you'll probably save too much because there'll be expenses that you can claim back, so there'll be a little tidy bit that you can have as a little profit, there a bit of an extra profit. Um, it's it's so important that to save it. Uh I've learned the hardware, and then the last few businesses I've had 100% is is is organised. Um, let's talk about um tracking stuff then. So what I I had an accountant from a couple of businesses back, my main wedding business, and then at the end of the uh couple of years I I stopped using the accountant, probably because I didn't want to start I wanted to stop paying his money, and that was a huge mistake because the next few years were a nightmare trying to do it myself. Would you recommend anyone to get an accountant or would you want him to use QuickBooks or something like that? What would you what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah, I I think early on, if if you are if you are starting after watching this podcast, right? If you're starting, you've decided right that's it, I'm gonna go and set up an exterior cleaning business, I'm doing it. I've got enough data now, I'm gonna go and start doing it. I would suggest one of the things that I did really early on 26 years ago when I started because I had no idea of numbers and money, and I was earning good money, and it just became a bit of a mess. Was I always recommend get a bookkeeper? Get a bookkeeper. Now you'll get yourself a bookkeeper who is I know I'm I don't know, I might be talking out of terms here. When I got mine, she was a lovely little old lady that had been doing it for 20-30 years. She charged me £120 a month. I used to take her all my bank books, all my check books, because this is all before online. I was gonna say physical, yeah, because this was all before online, right? I would take it in a carrier bag, all my receipts for the month, all my paying in checks, all my checks, everything, give it to her, and she would keep it. But what I learned from that, paying somebody to do that saved me money because you don't know what you can claim for. Like she was claiming for things like my dog and the dog food, and I said to her, How are you claiming for that? She said, Do you keep cash on the premises? And I said, Yeah. So well, the dog's part of your security, so the vet bills upset. Do you know what I mean? Honestly, it was mad, and and the money I was like, honestly, it was about hundred and it might have been 140 quid a month I was paying her, but the money she saved me and everything was in place, right? Everything was in place, then and she was great. A bookkeeper is great, right? It's just once once a month, drop her, drop her, it's all digital now. Send her what she needs, or give her with Metal, my accountants got access to my metal account, they can get into the back of it, they can't spend anything, but they can see everything, so everything's really simple. But having a specialist involved in your business early on, especially with numbers, is a game changer, and then as you grow them, as you grow, and you may be become limited, and then you may become that registered, then you need to look at a chartered accountant because then there's a different set of rules for VAT returns and being charted, and then everything then goes up to a next level. If you are in the process of going into that stage of your business building, where you may have five, six, seven vans, and all the boys and all the girls doing all the bits, and the numbers are now north of seven figures. If you're not doing minimum quarterly accounts, then you're missing a trick. I'd even go, I'd even narrow it down to having monthly accounts done. You know, just and when I say accounts, I don't mean a full set of accounts, I mean monthly snapshots of your business done by your accountant with you. So you are absolutely in charge of every penny. You know when materials go up, you know when fuel goes up, you know when profits slip in, you know when you're making money or you're not making money. But that that's when you start to get bigger. You can do it yourself starting tomorrow. You can do it yourself. Set yourself a task and do monthly or quarterly management accounts. Go for it for every quarter with your bookkeeper, write it all on a spreadsheet and have a look at it and see where you can make improvements. You know what why why are we spending why are we spending a thousand pounds on materials this quarter? What happened? Anything break? No, I just got trigger happy and wanted to decide to go and buy a new flat surface cleaner or wanted to buy a new pair of bit. Did you need them? No. Okay, well, let's look at it then. Management accounts allow you to see where your money's going. And if you do it monthly or quarterly, you're on top of it. But the people I speak to are say, People that are running seven-figure businesses, right? I say, Can I look at your quarterly accounts? Oh, we don't do quarterly accounts, we have to wait for the year. I'm like, what you're running a seven-figure business and you're not doing quarterly accounts, if not monthly management accounts, nah. Well, how do you know what you're doing? Oh, there's cash in the bank. No, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. We're guessing. So this isn't newbies that aren't getting it. This is established companies. And I speak from experience, I speak from I've done it myself. You get caught up in the motion of going forward, but you're missing the most important bit numbers. Numbers underpin everything, and like I said at the start, they never lie. Ever. They don't lie. There is no it's black and white with numbers. They never lie. Really important.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

I would say something about just touching on doing it yourself. I've done it myself more than I've had an accountant, if that makes sense. Yeah. I would champion I would champion the accountant all day because we know how busy roof cleaners and pressure washing companies get. You know, that I know from the marketing, you know, from the mentoring. Last thing, absolute last thing, is checking their accounts, really. Yes, they'll check if they've got any money to pay themselves, but they won't check anything else. They just haven't got the time, they're cleaning all day. So um it's it's easy as well, like if you say, like, I I mean, I literally have made this mistake where let's say it's let's say it's February, right? And and I should be logging January and half of February, I'll go, I'll just I'll leave it till March, and then you leave it till April, and then it comes April the 6th, and then you're trying to get the last quarter, and then all of a sudden a little task turns into days and days of going through every transaction and doing it yourself. Whereas an accountant, man, oh, it's it just takes off. I said it in the last one, I think. It was like if you want to go uh quickly go alone, if you want to go far, go together, and you have to have you have to learn to delegate tasks that don't need you to do it, and accounts is one of them. I mean, um, I'll shout out my one, Neil, um, from Allmrod Rutter. Um, he is an accountant, child accountants, they they help um exterior cleaning businesses. Um, I got him from I think it was on Jake Smout's uh Zoom, um whatever you call it, webinar, whatever he did, live. And he and I saw him and I contacted Neil and I use him now, he's absolutely brilliant. Anytime I need him, he's there. Um I mean it doesn't have to use him, it can be anyone, but it just takes the load off and makes it so much easier. Um something uh that you mentioned in there I want to talk about is um is is people some mistakes people make, and I think spending money is a big one because it goes out quicker than it comes in with a lot of cleaning businesses. And I just want to talk about this for a sec. I want to give just an example in my head. I remember chatting to someone, probably in January, you wanted to come on board with me. I can't remember if I told you this. He was talking about the Ionic One to tell you about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he went on this monologue for just anyone else there he went on this monologue for about five minutes about how he was going to buy this Ionic one, then it was like 15k or whatever it was, I can't remember how much it is. And I was just listening to him, and at the end he was telling me all the benefits of it. And then he said, What do you think? And I just said, It doesn't matter, I don't care. And he and he was shocked, he was like, What do you mean? I was like, It doesn't matter, you haven't got any work in. What are you telling me about this massive expense? When you haven't got the work coming in, you haven't got the money coming in. And he was like, Oh, fuck yeah. And I think we all make the mistakes that we just buy things that we don't need, and and we don't spend our money when it comes in on the right things, like developing the business or or your marketing. And that's not a sale to say, come to me and give me your money for marketing, it's to say your money should be going where it can help elevate your business and grow it. That that's that's would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 44:25

100% right, and it and it's I am conscious that you don't want to put a sales pitch in the middle of this, right? But how many people do you see have got a really nice van, really well wrapped, all logoed up uniform, they've got a 10,000, 12,000 pound pressure washing kit mounted in the back, they've got every single shiny toy, everything going, and they're scraping around for work. They're literally on the bones of their ass, scraping around for work, right? They've got maybe and I speak to them, I speak to these people, and they're all not they're not newbies that could be established companies, and they say, Man, I've got I've got no work, I've got no work after next week, and I'm really, really panicking. But I'm looking at the social footprint, and they've probably got you know a 30 grand van, they've got a 12 grand system, they've got probably 25 grand in bits and pieces everywhere, and they've just not put the money where it needs to be. Well, they'd be better off in a 15 grand van or a 10 grand van with a nice little bit of sign writing, you know, a mobile pressure washer for a couple of grand, probably second hand, you know, keep everything down and put the money into what makes a difference. What makes a difference? You don't know what you don't know. Investing in yourself is is absolutely massive, right? To move business forward, investing in marketing, investing in training, and I don't mean training unless you knew how to clean, but how to run a business, how to structure it to give you longevity in there. And I don't want to come across as a sales pitch, but it is so important. People fail because they don't know what they don't know, and they are spending money like it's going out of fashion, like it's never going to. They may have a good month this month, they get all this money in the bank and they think it's never gonna end, so they blow it, they go and buy the latest whatever turbo devil spinning thing because it's silver and it's shiny and it's a thousand pounds. Yeah, it's gonna be brilliant. Customers don't care. That's not what makes you the money. It may make your job a little bit easier, it actually might not make your job any easier, but you've been sold it because someone's brought it out as as all singing, all dancing, you know. Um, and and I'll bring it back, I'll I'll change it around now. You know, Cobra, everyone knows that I own Cobra and I sell that. Do you need a Cobra system? Do you really, really need one? No, carry on manual scraping. You don't need to give me four grand, carry on scrape manual scraping. Save the four grand, put it into your marketing, put it into your own education, and literally, once you've got the workflow in and you've got the structure and everything set correctly, then come to me and say, Matt, I've got three months of roof cleaning, manual scraping is killing me. How can I make it quicker and efficient? Right, you've got you've got a workflow in front of you. Yeah, you need one of these because it'll save half the time. But now you don't need it. Go and get the marketing right, get your social footprint right, get everything in place to bring money into the business. Once you've got that on repeat, then look at upgrading your equipment. I just see people, people are detting themselves up for new vans or franchises. Don't even go down, don't even get me started on these exterior cleaning franchises. Mate, you might as well open the door and throw your money down the road. Then honestly, that's another that's another topic. But that's what I'd be suggesting, mate. Seriously.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I'll flash um I'll flash a shot up right now, but my first van, uh, you'll know I kept it probably longer than I should. But my my van right was a tiny little bolingo, and I used to fit in pressure washer, buffer tank, all the hoses, all the attachments, all the tools, and a my tower into this bolingo. And I'll flash it up in a minute. It's nuts. When you open the door, it used to pop out like a jack in the box. But I should have upgraded. I've upgraded now, I've got a van mounted proper setup now. But at the time, I was making money in. Yeah, the kit was probably I probably looked a bit probably, I don't know, a bit small time, maybe rocking up to a big roof with a tiny van. But the profit was much larger, and I kept putting it off and putting it off and putting that back into marketing. Before I knew it, mid-Feb to December was full. So I had a shitty little van compared to these boys on socials with their massive van mounts and hybrid systems, but I was making more than them, and that's the that's the truth. And I think it comes down to mindset. That's something just to talk on before we finish, is do you want where you invest your money determine I think shows what you want to be. Do you want to own a job or do you want to own a business? And what we mean by that is do you own a job? If you stop now, if you stop for a day, does your business still make you money? And if you stop and you don't make money, then you own a job. Whereas if you can build something that doesn't you can walk away from eventually or take a few days out and it still makes money, then you got a business. But you can't that doesn't happen overnight, it's a way you invest. And again, this really isn't a sales plug. You go to any other mentor, go to any other agency, but investing in mentorship or courses or marketing, any of these things that bring you back money, that's where your mindset should be, and then that's what differentiates an entrepreneur just as someone being self-employed and having some extra cash, I think. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Yeah, that the best money you can spend, regardless of what stage you are in your business, right? The regardless whether you're about to start, you're three years in or you're ten years in, the best money you can spend is investing in the business, not buying equipment, but investing in yourself, your mindset, and planning it properly. The best money you can spend, honestly, it it it changes the game, it it just changes it, it changes it completely because you don't know what you don't know, and you just carry on doing the same things that don't work and you think you're doing alright and you're not. It's massive, massive.

SPEAKER_01 50:41

I um I want to start a new segment which I didn't tell you about. Um Thanks. We've only got ten minutes left. Um, someone actually commented saying, uh, this isn't this is going off topic here. He said, I love the episodes, but I don't know about time checking um because the endings feel a bit rushed. Just a bit of feedback there. But um I'm I I said to him, we want to keep it an hour, so it's gonna stay an hour. But um I thought we could maybe answer a question from someone each week because we get lots of questions in the comments or messages.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 51:08

Yeah, mate, a great idea. And there's one there's one that someone asked which could directly comes back to this about finances, and he asked me, he well, he said, I don't I mean I'm trying to find the actual here we go. I was gonna read the actual one out. Um if you don't have the capital to buy a van to start, can you still be successful uh just as a starting point and reinvest? What do you act what what do you advise? That's what a listener has asked. So he's basically said he hasn't got the money to start up to get a van, what should he do? What advice can we give him? I think this links back nicely to this episode. So what do you reckon?

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Is he exterior cleaning?

SPEAKER_01 51:44

He he wants to do exterior cleaning, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Okay, cool. So if he hasn't got the money to buy a van, if he's got a car, use that. If he hasn't got a car, start with neighbours. Start with neighbours either side of where you live. Because you can walk to your neighbour and carry your kit, you can do the job at a discounted price, you can then get the social media, you can then get a Google review, and you can start building it. And guess what? If you're really good and your prices are keen to get you going, you can do the whole of the street. You can do the whole of the street, and then with a little bit of hard work, you can go on to the next street. Yes, you've got to carry your kit further. Maybe you get yourself a little pull trailer. Yeah, it may look a bit uh people may laugh at you. Doesn't matter, mate. Doesn't matter. I I mean there's a prime example. Who's that lad on um Facebook who who does it on his bike? Is it Alfie, the Andy Man? Drives round and he collects all the wheelie bins and he pulls 20 wheelie bins through his town on the back of his push bike, cleans them all at home and takes them back. I've not seen it though. No, it's brilliant, mate. He's just and then he's been sponsored, he went to Australia for six months to make a podcast in Australia, travelling Australia on a bike. But he just started in Bolton or somewhere on a push bike going round. It's Alfiod Jobman or something. Alright, I'll have to check that out. And and and that's what I mean. If you really, really want to do it and you've really got that drive, start next door. Start next door and the next door's drive, clean theirs, clean it, clean it for free. Get the social media, go to the one after it, say, I've just cleaned Jenny's drive. I'd only charged 150 quid. Can I do yours? Can I do yours? Good idea. That that would be my suggestion. Closer to home than needing to travel.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

Absolutely, absolutely. I I said to him um you could consider uh renting a like hiring a van for a month just to get going and just to see. So you're not committing to a full lease or you're not committing to buying a van, but you can have it, bring your kit with you and just see if it's for you first before investing. That was the advice that I gave him. But but I think, yeah, I like that idea. Start closer to home. So if you're listening, that's for you, then and we'll do that every week. We'll answer one question. Um five minutes late. Sorry to rush, like one in the comments said before. But one question each, unprepared as usual. You've got one for me, I believe you said. Um want to hit me with it? We've got five minutes.

SPEAKER_00 54:02

What's your biggest profit-earning job you've done? You don't have to give us the value of the job, but what you can give us the value of the profit and what the job was.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

Uh oh, I know, I know exactly the one it is. It was um it was a huge house in Tamworth and Arden, which is a very affluent area uh near Solihall in the Midlands. Um, and it was for a footballer, a new footballer who was coming to the Midlands. I won't say who it is, um, but it was an absolute ginormous house. Like it's so so big. Maybe I'll put some I won't put some footage up. Maybe I'll put a few cleaning shots over the top of this. I'll show you how big it was. But um the the the um son and daughter owned it because the dad passed away and it was left to them, and they were trying to Airbnb it, but it's absolutely massive. I landed the whole roof, the patio, which is about 10 times the size of where we live, and then the driveway, which took three days because it was so big, and um it was amazing. It got me all the footage, my best performing ad was from it. Um me and my dad worked on it for like 10 days in total, and it was wicked, and the sun was shining, and I loved it, and we made great money, great advertising, and it was really good fun to work on a such a beautiful, beautiful uh property. So that 100% best job I've done, and I loved it. And then a footballer moved in not too long after, so he's probably still there now. So yeah, it was good fun.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Happy days, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Yeah, one for you. Um I was thinking as we were talking about that, when did you realise, or did you have to learn a harsh lesson between differentiating between uh revenue and profit? So basically, have you ever in a point in your business learnt the lesson that you were taking stuff earning stuff, but then shit, that's not profit, and it all goes back out, and then you may be left scrambling. Has that ever happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Yes, um through uh my my account, my my accountant has been with me for 21, 22 years. Um and I I got it from him early on. I was obsessed with thinking we were doing well, thinking we were ripping it up. Um and he sat me down and said, You're gonna be out of business in six months. I said, What do you mean? I fucking I'm busy, I've got work everywhere, I'm fucking flying. I'm the mate. He said, You're gonna be out of business in six months, you're not making a panic. I said, really? He said, Yeah. And this would have been at the time when I was probably 20 employees deep, thought the world was at my feet, I was turning up pages, winning contracts, commercial work coming out of my ears, everything felt great, but the numbers were amiss. And he said, You've got to get this, you've got to get a grip of this. We then spent the next year working on them numbers, understanding them, understanding the fundamentals, and the change then allowed me to grow it from 20 members of staff to 110 members of staff, and northwards of a two million pound turnover. Without that conversation, it would have gone bust.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

These harsh lessons have to happen, I think. You have to go through things. Um you and I are gonna speak on Sunday about something that's going on, and I think it's gonna, you know, when things happen in your business, you can come back so much stronger from it, they have to happen, they're part of the journey, and that sounds like a classic example from you there.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

Um, and I'm I'm great, ever grateful for him, um, ever grateful for him every day. Because but that's the import of a numbers say they don't lie, there's no lie, and someone that studies them for a living, an accountant, they can see patterns and they can see it instantly when me and you miss it. We miss it, we miss it. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 57:56

Cool, there we go. Well, we're on that was that wasn't a rushed ending, was it? It was a nice that was a nice pace to the ending. We've got a minute left. Um, yeah, that was a really good episode. Um, key key to any business. It'll make or break your business. Um, and if you don't get a grip of them, you'll be out of business very quickly with a lot of people. But if you get a grip of it, you'll elevate yourself and you'll be solid, have solid foundations, less stress when it comes to self-assessment and paying your tax, and your business will be uh stronger overall. So that was a really that was a really good episode. Um, yeah, if you haven't checked out the previous episodes, check them out. Um vision and goal setting, uh, social media, understanding your customers, building your brand, and then there's this, which is the finances, and they're all going one after another uh as a journey. So please go back and listen. Thank you for the comments. If you've got any questions, we're going to do that segment every week. DM us, comment down below. If you've got any questions about anything, we'll try and answer one every episode. Um, the next episode is a very, very interesting one. It's about sales, and for me, that is the biggest uh the biggest thing that holds people back, I think. And and and we'll get into this. This is your expertise, isn't it, Matt? This next episode, so I'm looking forward to that. Um, but yeah, yeah, thanks for joining us again, as always. And uh and we'll see you all in episode six for sales advice.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Yep, see you on the next one.