Episode 11: Networking & Partnerships

🤝 Your next biggest customer might come from a relationship, not an advert.

In Episode 11 of The Clean Hour, we explore how networking and strategic partnerships can help you grow your pressure washing business without relying solely on paid marketing.

From building relationships with complementary trades to creating referral partnerships that generate work month after month, we share practical advice on becoming more proactive with your networking and turning connections into long-term business opportunities.

In this episode we cover:
 ✅ Why networking is one of the most overlooked growth strategies
 ✅ How to build genuine business relationships
 ✅ The best local businesses to partner with
 ✅ How to approach potential partners with confidence
 ✅ Following up without being pushy
 ✅ Generating more referrals and repeat opportunities
 ✅ Common networking mistakes to avoid

Whether you're just starting your pressure washing business or looking to grow to the next level, this episode will help you build a stronger network that supports long-term success.

🎧 Subscribe for weekly episodes packed with practical advice for pressure washing business owners looking to grow smarter, attract more customers, and build a more successful business.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Clean Hour Podcast. It's roasting hot here in England. We're in the depths of cleaning season and England are out of the World Cup. So there's a lot going on. And we're approaching the end of season one, Matt, of uh of the podcast. We're episode 11 today. Are you alright? Welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Thank you. Um yeah, good to be back. Um yeah, it's um funny time, innit? Weather's red hot. England are out of the World Cup, like you said. Yeah, there we go. But it's holidays around the corner, so something to look forward to, something to cheer myself up with. Bit of a summer holiday.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

I reckon there's a few sunburnt cleaners listening at the minute. I for one and one of them peeling all over. But it's good, man, and it's better than the winter. Or is it? I don't know. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Not I'd rather be hot than cold. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Okay, cool, cool.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

100%.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Right, penultimate episode today of season one, flying by. Um, and today's all about networking and partnerships. So um there's different ways we can look at it, isn't it? This it's networking amongst other cleaners, but also networking amongst other potential businesses and and leaning more towards the commercial side. Is that fair to say? There's a few different ways to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah, definitely. I think you know, as the journey's gone on, we we're building a picture from episode one to episode twelve, and and this now, this late stage is about this building these partnerships, networking with a team around you to support you. But also, you know, we've never spoken about anything commercial in this series. This little bit now will take you through the commercial journey and the the how the mentality of the commercial buyer works and why it's important to build this network if you want to go into the commercial work. So, yeah, that's what pretty much what I that's my take on this episode. Okay, my beliefs, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Of course, so we'll start talking about maybe we'll start with networking with the cleaners first and how that can benefit and and other suppliers, and then we'll get into the commercial side. And then I want to leave the last 15 minutes or so to talk to answer a listener question, because it kind of links onto this episode, but I think we we could go on all day about it, so I want to just leave a bit of space for that if that's okay. Okay, so we'll keep an eye on the clock.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I mean it's not a crazy question, but it's just something it's just something that's that's people you know we we've mentioned before when I think it's I think it's good, I think it's a good conversation topic. Um Cool. So we've said before well I've said before, bang the drum, if you want to go fast go alone and go far go together, that can apply to you with networking with other suppliers and cleaners, can't it? So should we should we start with this then? Um how important is it to have people to call upon and and kind of friends in this uh in this industry, do you think, to to help you be successful?

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Um 100%. And I think I think it's a mindset thing with it as well. People are worried to join forces with local contractors because they're scared they're gonna steal the work and they're not gonna be, you know, and it's the wrong attitude to have what you need around you, right? If you're an exterior cleaner in, let's say, I don't know, let's say Wigan, right? You want a couple of external cleaners who you can call on, and I'll tell you why you want them and why you need them around you, and they need to be in your little network. Your network doesn't need to be massive, but if something breaks, you could ask them, could they borrow those? If you have a job that comes in that might be a little bit out of your scope of works, you can call on them to come in and support you on that job, you know, and and having this, and and you might have an idea, you may think of something that you think's really, really good, and you may think, Oh, what a brilliant idea. Well, now you've got someone to bounce it off, you've got someone in your network that you trust that you could bounce that idea off, and the likelihood is they'll see something in that idea that you haven't seen, and you'll go, shit, yeah, that ain't gonna work, is it? You know, so that so it's really important for those three things, I would say, you know, is work that comes in that's a little bit out of your scope, or work that comes in that you might get you might get asked, right, to go and do a full clean on a hotel, top to bottom, roof, walls, walkways, cladding, signage, render, X, Y, Z, right, on a huge hotel. You ain't doing that as a one-man band. You ain't doing that. So if you haven't got a network around you of trusted people that can support you, you now don't want to lose that work. So now you're gonna probably go and get contractors that you've no relationship with and take a gamble. Where if you've built your team around you, you can say to them, Look, I'm pricing this job, I know what your day rate is, what's your availability? Mate, I've got no availability for two months. Okay, cool. I'm gonna put it all together. I'll probably take you to the site to have a look, just to make sure I've not missed anything. I'll put it in if we get it, then we do it together, don't we? Brilliant. So that that's really important. It's just having these people supporting you, you know, and that would be I I've got contractors that I've had for over 20 years, right? I've got roofers, I've got electricians, I've got plumbers in all my other businesses, I've got um firing security, I've got external cleaners that I can call on that cover all my businesses, you know, and now I'm starting to build a network of coaches. Why? Because we need help and support at times. So massively building network, massively. Don't think you can do it all on your own and you've got all the answers. You need people around you to support you 100%.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

I think cleaners helping cleaners is great as well because it can help you when times are leaner for you. For example, let's say you land a fucking 4,000 square foot driveway that you can't tackle on your own. You can call upon someone in your area, even though you see them as competition, and they can help you out to get the job done quicker and more effectively. But then when if they land a big job and times are lean for you, you can still go and earn a really good day rate with them because you've got that relationship, you know. Sometimes they might land a huge job or something that needs help. So if you have that connection, it can help you when times are tough for you because there's always work there, that's what I think. I've got um I've got a WhatsApp group with all my clients in, and and they quite a few of them work together, so they're probably I don't know, 50-60 miles away sometimes from their areas, but they'll still do they've said before they'd do roof cleans together. Um I was with a client three or four weeks ago, and there's two lads there with another client doing someone's roof, and he was helping coach them as well. So it's a really good network, and I think it can it it's really beneficial in the long run, I think, to to have that relationship. Don't see them as competition. Yes, they are competition, but not really. We're all in it together, there's loads of properties to clean. Yeah, you're better off forming a bond instead of polarizing yourself, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Yeah, and and it and if you treat them well and pay them really sharp, right? So I've used subcontractors all my life and they've become part of my network. So if I tell you about my commercial window cleaning, so uh 2004 went into liquidation, so probably up to the beginning or the end of 2023, I had a really big commercial window cleaning division in M12 Group. I was probably making 20 grand a year of commercial window cleaning, never cleaned a window myself. I had four window cleaners that I've known for years that did all the work, signed it off for me. I just put my percentage for managing on it and invoiced the client. And we probably made 20 grand a year just on the window cleaning. Never did, never cleaned up commercial window ever. I haven't cleaned a commercial window for 20 years, but I had a commercial window cleaning company in my facilities company, same with the roofers, same with the plumbers, same with the electricians. So, you know, if if you know, if we're not talking about scaling or doing commercial work, having these people in your network, you know, as long as the standards are right, as long as you've got an understanding that they don't go to touting for the work directly themselves, and it's all on the level, which 99% of the time it is, you can make good money off the back of them. They're getting paid what they want, they get really good terms. So our terms were 24 hours. They would send me an invoice, we'd pay them in 24 hours. So whenever time I ever rang them, there was never a problem, they'd go and do it for me. I say, mate, I need this quote this week, mate. I'll go tomorrow. Brilliant. Because they knew that I was a really good customer. I have it with a roofing contractor now. We still do roofing works, um, and we do roofing works through Cotswell Roofing, not domestically, but commercially. And when my old commercial clients ring me and say, I've got a roof issue, I ring my roofer and he goes straight out for me. Why? Because he knows he gets paid within 24 hours. He's doing he's doing jobs for me 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 grand a year, and I'm making good money on the back of it just for managing and putting my name to it. So don't over underlook or overlook having really good contractors, you know, building that network of trusted people around you. It's honestly it's so powerful, it really, really is. It really is. And if you want to start making serious money, then these are the people that you need around you because you can scale really quickly. I nearly sent a job to I was in Southampton yesterday doing a roof clean. I only went because I had a day become available for another story, uh, a red flag client. That's another story. But I I was gonna give it to a lad in Southampton to clean for me. I was gonna say, you go and do it, I'll make a couple of quid on it as well, and we'll do two roof cleans out there. But in the end, I could do it myself. So that that's the power of it. You can earn more money by subbing work out, can't you?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah, so it's interesting because that's it's a completely different business model, that isn't it? And theoretically, do you reckon you could grow a roof cleaning business without ever cleaning a roof yourself? Because whether you don't know what's real and what's not online, but I got into this business by because I saw a tweet, someone saying boring businesses make money. I've said this story before, yeah. And then I I that tweet inspired me to start a cleaning business. But his he's a guy in America, whether he's real or not, I don't know, I think he is. But he his model is he set up a exterior cleaning business in the States and did basically what you just said. He just did the bit the the business and marketing side of it, and he works all over the States without ever going to a roof or property, and he just finds the cleaners, almost kind of not franchising, but just subs it out to all these different cleaners around the country, and he makes really good money from it. So it's a completely different business model to what we're used to. But theoretically it could work, couldn't it? But it's all about trusting them and training them right, I th I think.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

I I've I've done it all my life. All my life. Do you find it passionate?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Do you find it more stressful because it's out of your control or is it easier?

SPEAKER_00 11:59

No, it's brilliant. Is it it's it's brilliant. You you will never make uh I'll give you an example, right? We did a roof job in Swindon on a block of flats, and I think I think the bill to me was with the scaffolding, with the repairs, and they guarantee the work, um, and I think the bill to me was something like I want to say about six and a half grand was the bill to me. I billed the client, I think just under 13 grand. I never went to the site, I never seen the work, I never signed anything off. It was an office transaction because I'd built the reputation that you can come to me as like I don't know, I suppose like a like a Mr. Fixit. So property managers, building managers would come to me and say, Matt, I've got a problem, I need this sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

So you're like you're like the middleman, you're like the agent.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Yeah, yeah, basically. And I would run, I I would carry the risk. So my money is for the organisation, the mobilisation, and carrying the risk. Do you know what I mean? So the property manager gets what they need done, or the building manager gets what they need done, and and I take I take a big slice of of that money. Um, and we've done that, I've done that all my life.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Have you got a pay have you got to pay them over what you would normally pay someone in terms of use contractors? No, no, I'm just thinking, would would some people fear like they get one contract and then take the whole thing and go and do it themselves, kind of thing, like steal contracts. Yeah, there is that a possibility.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yes, there is that worry with it. There is that worry, but you know, it's short-sighted, innit?

SPEAKER_01 13:51

Are there many ways around that? Can you stop that happening?

SPEAKER_00 13:54

No, not really.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

No, you can't like put it in like you can't you can't take this contract or something, you can't take lines on this, I don't know if you can legally do that. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

You know, and it's but you're no different from employing someone, aren't you? You could employ someone, say you won a contract for let's say you won the contract for cleaning the cladding and the building of pure gyms, right? Pure gyms come to you and they say, Can you clean all the pure gyms in a hundred mile radius of your base? Yeah, you give them a price, it's worth, let's say it's worth ten grand a month to you, right? And you you set one lad off in a van and he's doing that, that's all he does five days a week. Goes round all the pure offices at pure gyms, cleaning all the cladding, all the signage. That's his sole job. Six months into it, right, he's cleaning one of the gyms, and the facilities manager who's given you the contract, turns up, starts chatting to him. Starts chatting to him. They get along, and then he sees him again on another job, they start building a rapport, and then he just says to him, Why don't you do this on your own? And he says, What do you mean? So you set on your own, I'll give you all the pure gyms, I'll I'll save a bit of money, and you'll make a damn sight more than you are now at just over minimum wage. It's no different, is it? It's no different. All of a sudden, the lad Anzi's noticing, you're gutted, you then re you then replace him for someone else, and then you lose the contract to find out the lad that the lad that resigned has got the contract. And it happens, it and it may sound far-fetched that to people listening, but I promise you, no, I promise you, I've been on the end of it. I have been on the end of that in different industries. So it happens, so you know I'll be thinking with that.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Sorry though, if I was the guy who nicks that contract for the gyms, yeah, he probably I don't know if this is an assumption, wouldn't have the business accrements go and find another contract. So he'd really be better off just keeping working for you, keeping that work coming in as like on tap. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 16:14

But but money and greed destroys people, don't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, 100%. I mean destroys people. I'm just looking if it was you, you'd probably someone offered it, you probably would take it, I'd imagine.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, money money and greed destroys people. Yeah. Because it's a quick win, you don't see the long-term effect of it, do you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

I like you know sorry go on.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

But also, I w what also I would say as well, that some of the best businesses in the world have been set up on the back of that. Because, you know, you've got to learn, haven't you? And if you give if you're given something, if you're given something in your lap, then you can learn why you're doing, can't you? True. You know, yeah and but that's what happens. So being panic stricken that you don't want anybody to come and work with you because they might steal something off you, you need to look a bit closer to home. And that's where it starts. You know, you think about it, right? You bring you bring a young lad, a young girl into your company, you then spend the next three years training them, educating them, making them the best cleaner on the planet. You don't know that they're not following or watching us learning business tips along the way with a view to go on their own in maybe four or five years. You invest heavily into them. Once they get to a position where they go, Yeah, man, I'm I'm I know how to softwash and how to clean roofs, I've got all my licenses, I've got my cherry picker, I've got all this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I'm off. How how do people, you know, this is how people start businesses, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Did you get it? But it's but that's life, I think, though, as well. Yeah, because it's almost like, I don't know, I've gone to like a football analogy, like players join teams knowing that they're going to be a better team in three or four years, but doesn't mean that the team or the club can't find have the next one waiting in the wings kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

I think the the good thing is for this is in this industry is a surface is either clean or it's not. There's not really a middle ground, is there? If it's clean, wicked go home. If it's not, go back and clean. Yeah. Umly sad because my I I tried to adopt this model for my wedding business before, before I had staff where I got all the weddings in and then I find people in the areas. But the problem with that industry is that it's it's an art form and it's subjective, so you can't guarantee that someone's gonna get this the right kind of shot because their right kind of shot is different to someone else's, that makes sense. But with this, it's clean or it's not. So it's easier to do it with something like this. It's very black and white, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Uh it is. Uh and it depends it all depends on. I suppose it would work for I don't know if it works for roof cleaning, right? It yeah, it would work for roof cleaning. You're just gonna have to you're gonna have to really understand their level of standards, aren't you? Because a lot can go wrong with roof cleaning.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Who who takes the flak with the I don't want to go off topic too much here, but you say you say you start this model for a roof cleaning business and they drop the turbo straight through the tiles and smash through the roof. Is it you? Are you liable or do they have to have their own insurance? Is it under them?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

It it's both, in it. So the client will come to you screaming and shouting for you to put it right, and the then you will go to the contractor screaming and shouting to get the contractor to put it right. Okay. So it is, don't get me wrong, I've done jobs, you know, it's not all I I made it sound really, really easy at the start, and I would say out of the 20 years of doing it, 22 years of doing it, I would say the success rate is probably about 85%.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

But if I was to look at the money we've made off subcontractors in 22, 23 years, I would probably put that easily in the millions. Easily in the millions.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

If your skill is building a business and marketing and sales, it it makes it makes a lot of sense to take yourself out of the cleaning and just go and do it if it's if that is your skill, that makes it make sense, and and let the contractors whose skill is the cleaning and not the marketing sales do that.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

There is another skill needed in that as well, and that's management and client relationships.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:43

That that's a real big part of it, right? It's a real big part of it. Um once you've got trusted people around you, then to scale that is really, really easy. Really easy. If if you're on board and in your client relationships are good and your marketing and your sales is good, there's some serious money to be made. I I literally could stop roof cleaning tomorrow, never clean another roof, and sub out the next three months' work and probably make a good living off it. Do you have to charge more? Um to cover it. Yes. Because a contractor's not going to work for less. So it depends on it depends on the value on the volume you're giving them, right? But then you've also got from the contractor's point of view, you don't want all your eggs in one basket. So imagine if you were close to me and I said to you, mate, come and do all my roof cleans, right? How many you got? I've got fucking one a day, infinity. Right? You start doing all my roof cleans, you think you're on a winner now because you don't need to do marketing, you don't need to do advertising. And it's going all great for a year, you know, you you're earning what you want to earn, you're busy, your boys are busy, everything's great. And then I change my mind. And literally overnight, I stop it. So, you know, the the model that works is I I don't know the problem with roof cleaning is right, if I've got five roof cleans a week, a local roof cleaner's not gonna want to take them off me because his own work's gonna suffer. He might want one of them a week. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

So I think the model works if you've got when when it worked for me, right? Massively was we offered every service plumbing, building, cleaning, maintenance, reactive, out of hours, scaffolding, decorating, everything to do with buildings. They would say to me, Matt, we need scaffolding round this building because we've got to get a roofing contractor on there. And I'd say, Okay, what do you want me to do? And they say, Oh, just the scaffolding because the buildings insurance is doing this, is doing the roofing contractor. I would go to my local scaffolder and say to him, Can you give me a price to scaffold that? He'd come back and say to me, Yeah, it's 70 grand. I would go to the client and say it's fucking 95,000. They would go, Yeah, please, there's the order. I would then go back to him and put the order in, he would scaffold it, it would be stage payments, and then would there be agreed you know, charge on the end of it, they would have it for 12 weeks. Anything over that, they'd then be paying, you know, £2,000 a week over higher charge. That's what he would charge me. I would charge the client £3,000 a week over higher charge. And I'd want the works to overrun. Of course I would. Because I'm gonna make a thousand pounds a week, and and all I've done, all I have literally done, is a meeting with my client to make sure I know what they want, a meeting with the scaffolder. Once the scaffolding starts going up, a site meeting to check that they're safe and they're all which I know they are, because I've I've worked with them for years, and that's it. And then just a bit of administration putting the invoice in, collect the money, on to the next job. It is it's uh you know, we've done it with we've done it with all sorts of things. Decorators. I had I had a decorating company paint a listed building for me in Southampton, they were there for six months, they were charging me weekly, I think they were charging me somewhat like four grand a week or five grand a week with materials. I was billing my client eight grand a week for six months, and they did a great job. But I had to work with the heritage officer, I had to work, and that was all scaffold, I made a fortune on the scaffold. And that that's but but it was hassle-free to the client, isn't it? Yeah, hassle free. That's all they want is hassle-free.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

The client doesn't really care, dude. As long as the job gets done and they're and they're paying a fair price, they don't really care.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

That that's exactly that, you know, that they had a trusted contractor, me, that would run it start to finish for them. Job done. Uh, and we've done that for it for years. So this building this this team around you, if if you want to start making some serious money, well you you imagine right, you imagine if your if your marketing and your sales is good, right? You could market and sell massively and have another two external cleaners doing two or three jobs a week for you. If you earn an extra, let's say you earn an extra thousand pound a week off them, so you earn an extra £3,000 a week for just managing and marketing. Nice little touch, innit? You know, people make people make a lot of money out of this. Yeah, it's a lot of money, and it is a business model, you know. I think you need the basis of the understanding of everything that goes on. I think if you're not an external cleaner and you try to do it for roof cleaning, we haven't got a clue what's going on after.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

I was I was literally about to ask, do you do you reckon this is something for when you're a few years in, you need to get some you need to have been in the trenches and and and you know been up the towers and done all that?

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Because I think you need an understanding, right? You need an understanding of what what goes on.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

You couldn't have you couldn't have some random entrepreneur who's never been in this industry do it, it'd be harder for him to do it or her.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Yeah, because because you wouldn't know what the problems are, would you? Yeah, you wouldn't know have they cleaned it with the right the right method, the wrong method? Why is it leaked? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

What what you're gonna say? You're gonna you're not gonna look confident to your client, are you? You know, and at the sell point, how do you sell something you've never done? You know, could could could you sell a roof clean if you had never ever been an exterior cleaner? Well, you you'd be talking shite, wouldn't you? You wouldn't know what to say to them. Yeah. So I think you have to, yeah, well, I don't think, I know, you have to have an understanding. So it's got to come across, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah. How do we um let's talk a bit about finding these people then and the networking side of it? How do we find these partners and these these people to work with? Even if we're not gonna let's let's not assume we're gonna go everyone's gonna go down that model. How do we find people who we can call upon?

SPEAKER_00 27:42

What's the what's the first thing that we well you normally find them, don't you? Because you you're put into a position where you need an hand. That's how it normally happens. I found my roofer, my electrician, my builder, my plumber, my scaffolder. Because someone said, Can you do this job?

SPEAKER_01 28:02

So it's out of necessity, so you need someone and you just call around.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

Yeah. And then I said, Yeah, of course I can. And then I've met someone, I've met the scaffolder, I've met the window cleaner, gone, yeah, get along with him. You know, but the window cleaners that we had had been my window cleaners for probably 10, 12, 15 years. I just got on with them. I needed a commercial window cleaner, I needed an ab sailor, I needed someone with a 50-meter cherry picker to clean commercial windows. The lad came along, we got on, we give him the job, he delivered it. That was it. There was no issues. The next job I got, we did again, we did again. Then we got the contracts and we give it them. And it just, and then we moved. And at the time we were covering Birmingham, Central London, Southampton, Wales, Devon. You know, we're so we didn't just have one contractor in one area, we needed them all over the place. But it literally is from necessity. Can you do that? Never turned anything down, ever. Can you do that? Yeah, I can cool.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

It's great, isn't it? When you when you do network and you meet even just one person, that one person leads to someone else, it leads to someone else. I think that's the the organic way of meeting people. Yes, you can do like the BNI and all the networking and all that, which has its place, but I think just literally just just getting out and meeting people is is amazing. I mean, I so I spoke to Sam and Sam put me in contact with you. Yeah, I send people to Sam. Sam sends people to me, you send people from Cobra, I recommend mine to you, and it's it just goes round, doesn't it? The more people you can add, the more branches you can add to your network. It just really does just benefit you in all walks.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Absolutely. And and I get jobs back from my network.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

So my network, oh, we did that commercial domestic yesterday in Southampton. That's through my network. They my my roofer said this roof needs cleaning before he can repair it. He recommended me. They came to me, we did the job. That that's how it works, isn't it? That that's how it works. And if you build this around you, and especially if you if you want longevity and you want to earn decent money, then building a network around you now is really key, innit? And and networks like like like having a strong core of four or five friends around you, innit? You know, you've got in your personal life, you'll have a core of four or five friends that you're tight, right? If you pick up the phone and say, I'm in this shit, they'll be like, ah, yeah, what we're doing. Yeah, I'm on it. Well, it's the same with your network and your business. You want to be able to pick up the phone to people and say, I fucked up. Oh, have you? Yeah, I need an hand. Yeah, man, I'll be with you. That that's what you want. That's what you want to be building. If you're going alone and you haven't got anyone in your network, then then you're building the wrong business. And that doesn't matter what business you're building, whether it be external cleaning, fucking baking, fucking fire school, whatever, you need people in that network around you. You really it's all about like I said, sorry go on right at this right at the start, even if it's just for a sounding board, even if it's just for a sounding board, someone that understands the industry, that you could just bounce something off them over a quick coffee or a quick phone call. Massive, massive plus, no negatives, massive plus.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

It's it all comes down to as well how you conduct yourself, I think, and what kind of person you are though, because this all reli is dependent on you not burning bridges and you having good good a good uh kind of reputation, isn't it? Because you could be an absolute dickhead and and and have people go, fuck that, I'm not working for Matt again, or I'm not working with Michael. And word can get around quickly, I think, in this industry. And we've both, you know, of course not gonna say any names, we know people who we never go near again that we've both interacted with and stuff, and that can spread very quickly, and that's when it can it can damage them because you call on people and they'll have heard no fuck that, I ain't doing that again, I ain't going back with you, I'm not working with you again, and it can become a disaster then. But that all comes down to what kind of person you are and how you speak to people, I think.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

100%. I I look at my my my contractors, right? My network. They've been with me forever. Because I treat people right, we pay them within 24 hours, we look after them, we never and another thing with contractors, right? We never ask them to reduce the price. Definitely, never ever, ever ask them to reduce the price. Why? Because you're putting a markup on it. Makes no odds to you, does it? If someone asks me to scaffold the building and the contractor wants hundred grand, my bill's 140 grand. I'm never gonna say to him, I never get greedy and say, can you do it for 90? So I can make 50. I'm making 40 grand for management, 40,000 pounds. So the first part of the building the relationship is never knock the contractor on the money. And if your client's asking it for it cheaper, either reduce yours or walk away. Never ever knock the contractor.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

I think as soon as if money's the first issue, I think it goes down, it always goes downhill in in anything, I think. Yeah. I have absolutely again, I'm not saying any names and I appreciate everyone who messages me and stuff and DMs me. I get a lot of them. But I have it all the time. People don't even say hello, they just go, How much do you charge? I don't even bother replying because it's yeah, one, it's really rude, and two, you can tell the intent straight away. There's not even a relationship built, how much to charge.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

And I think if yeah, if you if you have a really good relationship with someone and you go, can you reduce your price? All of a sudden their backs up, even if they realise it or not, and that's the end of the relationship for me. It'll start going downhill, and they'll and then the quality of work will suffer because go, fucking hell, I'm doing all this work and I should not even earning what I should. And yeah, but that's how a lot of people operate.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, and and that's the top takeaway from this. You know, don't ever ask the contractor to reduce his money if he's in your network and they are trusted. If they say to you it's a hundred grand, then that's what you're paying them. Yeah. Because it makes no odds to you, right? So today you haven't got the job. Tomorrow, you could have the job with a 40 grand profit for doing nothing.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

So going back and being greedy, don't just think if you get the contract and you can't afford to pay someone, then you shouldn't be outsourcing it yourself if you haven't got the funds in place to do it, really. You have to be in the right way. Exactly that.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

Yeah, exactly that. You know. And it's different, innit? I'm I'm talking when I had my big clean and maintenance company. We we had a credit line with the Lloyd's Bank that I would put the invoice on today, I'd get paid tomorrow. Hence where I could pay contractors in 24 hours. That and that goes a long way, right? Well, when when a contractor's working for you for the money they ask for, and they know that on practical sign off tomorrow, if they get their shit together and get their invoice in, they get paid within 24 hours. What a position to be in. What a position to be in that you're not chasing, you're not worried about not getting paid, because you know the minute you and what do you know what this is the mad thing? Do you know what a lot of them do? A lot of them use it as a little like savings account. So they wouldn't invoice me on completion of the job. I get it. They would leave it a month, six weeks, seven weeks, they'd get to a little bit of a lean spot or a little bit of a tax bill or a VAT return, stick an invoice in, get it paid in 24 hours. And they they knew that because that's what we built. We built that trust line with them that they knew working with me would never ever knock them on the money and they would get paid in 24 hours. And then when I pick up the phone, guess what? They answer. Yep, that's that's it. That's it, really simple. Yeah, and it can be built.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

You ever done um you ever done any B and I's or any of those networking groups? Yes, I have. What'd you reckon to them?

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Um I thought B and I was fucking shit.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Was yours really early in the morning?

SPEAKER_00 37:02

Yeah, they all are, they're all six o'clock breakfast club shy, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 37:05

Yeah, I've only done it once, I've done it twice, then they're both like that.

SPEAKER_00 37:08

Yeah, yeah. I bought into it because I thought it was the way to go, and I soon bought out of it because there's certain people that do really well out of it, the rest don't. I thought B and I was shy.

SPEAKER_01 37:20

I've heard I've heard good things, yeah. I mean bad things, and I've experienced kind of things.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

People do people do alright out of it, I suppose. But it it's there's too much pressure, right? There's too much pressure to bring referrals for people every week, yeah. And then you're trying to find work for people, and what I found was if you really bought into it, fucking people aren't as bought into it as you. Yeah, so you're doing loads of work to get other people, and then I found then I found myself just giving myself referrals to them to use their services, and I just nah, no, and I've been to I joined the Cotswold networking, and I only left that because I moved out of the area, and that was okay. That was no, that wasn't a referral thing. Uh, and I met some good people from there, um, yeah, you know, and and I've had two of them on the live with me who I met there, you know. So it does work. Networking does work. I think you need to look at what you're doing, what you want to achieve from the networking, what what's your aim, right? When you go and sign up for a networking event or being at what what is your goal? Yeah, have it very clear what you want to get out of it. If you say to yourself, right, I'm gonna go and join this local networking club because I need I need an electrician, I need a plumber, or I need an exterior cleaner add into my trades. I'm gonna go for six months because I know there's trades in there, I'm gonna work out who's who, and I'm gonna add some really good contacts to my if you go without a plan, I'll just go along and just say hello to people and be nice and listen to people's stories. You're not gonna get the max out of it. Go with a plan, go with what you need out of it. Otherwise, you're just one, you're fucking wasting time because it's a couple of hours out your day or night. Two, there's a cost, and at the end of it, did you get anything out of it? Probably not if you don't have a plan. So uh my tip for networking is if you're gonna do networking, be it BI, be it fucking local groups, be the coffee mornings, have a plan. Yeah, see if and and if the plan, if the plan can work in the structure of that networking group, and the right because you can see who's in the group from the online directories. Yeah, it's no good saying, oh, I need a builder, I'm gonna join this network club. And then go, and there's no fucking builders, they're all accountants and fucking tree surgeons, yeah. So do your homework, see what you'll get out of it. Everything has to have a return done in business. You have to have a return. Networking is no different, you know. Is the return? Is the people in that group who may want your services, you know, is the is the three or four property managers that look after big portfolios of properties and work for some of the big biggest managing agents in the country? Well, the likelihood is you're probably gonna get a bit of work out of them as an external cleaner. So, yeah, go along. You know, don't go in, don't go straight over to them with a sales pitch. What I would always do is the people that you want to work for, avoid them. Yeah, avoid them at all costs. Speak to everyone else when you do your speeches, you know, make yourself known, get everybody talking about you, so it gets back to them, and then they're intrigued to come and speak to you. Yeah. But people don't people go in on day one, fly over to the person they want to work with and try and sell to them. Yeah. Don't stay away from them, stay away from them for four months, don't say a word to them. Let them come for you because they've heard all about you now, and now they're intrigued.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

An easy way to do that is is we go back to it again, but just how you position yourself on your socials and and and giving your personality. I I much prefer if you said to me, How could I go and build a dream team now? I I'll I'd just sack off those networking events and I'd go, Who have I seen on socials, who have I heard the best things from, and just connect with them. You know, like you don't have to go up to them and say, Have you got this job? You you know, comment on their stuff, maybe have a chat to them, give them a call, build those relationships because it might benefit you then a few months down the line. Yeah, and getting in front of the cameras, we always say, is an easy way to do that. Um yeah, my accountant uh came from Jake Smoutz Live. I saw it, he was on there, really liked him, bam, been working with him for three months. Yeah quick as easy as that, because he was on the screen.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Yeah, exactly. That's it. So all that we've spoken about it over and over again. It's all the trust building, isn't it? That's all it is, is trust building. Yeah, but uh but I think if you are gonna go networking, don't go in fucking all guns blazing, trying to pick out the people that you want to try and extract money from. Yeah, just stay away from them, let them come to you, yeah, let them let them pick you out, you know, because they will go and look at you, you know, because every networking group has a social directory that you're adding to.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

So they will go and look at your socials, they will go and look at your website, they will go, okay, yeah, they could probably do something for me then, but stay away from them. And then when they come to you, they're warm, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 42:50

I think, Pete, I think let people come to you anyway in life. Um it kind of counter um contradicts sorry what we say slightly, where you should always get yourself in front of as many eyeballs as possible. Well, that's what we always say in market, market, market. But you know, like people who post ten times a day in these groups, and they're always they're always a bit it looks desperate. Whereas I'd be like, just let the results do the talking and step back. Like, you know, I've never spent a penny on the agency. Yes, I'll do YouTube videos and stuff, but I've never posted in a group or any of that kind of stuff, never. Let them come to you. I think you've seen it with your market with your mentoring and stuff, and it applies to anything, any industry that you're in. You know, the loudest in the room sometimes are the weakest in the room. That's what I think. So um build something that attracts people to you, I think is a good way to think about it.

SPEAKER_00 43:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You always want to be in the position that you're being chased and you're not the chaser. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, but in the same breath, right, and I see it, is a lot of people, more than a lot of people, get the one thing wrong. We we and I and I've done it over the years, right? We create content, we create stories. Stories, we create posts, but we we've still got to get the message of selling out there. Yes. Right. Because if we don't, people don't know. You know, there is people out there that don't know what you do. Even though you think you know they know what you do, you know what they do, but they don't. And if they don't know you because you're selling it, you know, all your content, for example, right? All your content is really good, high-level content. If I didn't know that you sold, you had an agency, I wouldn't get that from your post because your your content is building trust. I don't know how much you charge because you never say it.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Every now and again we have to drop in a sales post. We have to. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Because we we will miss people that don't know you. Oh, right, I didn't know Michael. I could go and do that with Michael. I just thought he made great content about how to get business. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Drop a sales post in, drop one in and say, my agency fees are this, and you, you know, whatever. And and and I think we miss that. And that that comes back to that conversation we had right at the start, didn't we? It's the British thing, in it, we don't like talking about money. Yeah, we just don't like it. But we have to drop in a sales pit. We have to, you have to drop in your offer. Yeah, of course it's gonna be. Every now and again. Yeah, you've got to put your offer in. If you offer external clean, if you offer render cleaning, I can clean your render for £799 book here. That you've got to drop it in. It's got to be in there. Yeah, not every day on every post in every group, but you have to drop your offer in there.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Yeah, you have to. It's enough to make people aware, but not enough to make you look desperate, I think.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yes, yeah, absolutely. 100%. Where are we on timings, Marshall?

SPEAKER_01 45:51

I was gonna say I want to go into the one question each year because I've got a question from a uh listener that I reckon we could talk about for 10-15 minutes because it's topical. Um I was thinking of one earlier for you. Yeah. Uh have you ever never found a contact or landed a job from a conversation that you almost didn't have? Does that make sense? So you were like, uh, should I talk to that person near the ever one?

SPEAKER_00 46:20

Yeah, right. Slightly. I got asked to go to Bournemouth, to pool in Bournemouth to meet a property manager because he had a little block of flats on a development that he wanted me to look after. There was only six flats. It was fortnightly cleaning, monthly winter cleaning, fortnightly landscaping. I was based in Redding at the time. This was an hour and 15, hour and 20-minute drive. And I just thought, oh fucking hell, I'm not gonna go and see him. And I just I just it I toyed with it on and off, on and off, on and off, on and off. Anyway, I went to it, I went to the meeting, right? Lovely bloke, met him. So I was like, ah mate, I can't. He said, No, it's not just this, this is the start, this is like block one, the building a 15,000 unit estate here, and I want you to have the whole lot. And I went, Oh my god, right, okay. But then it went from I can't come to Bournemouth to do this because it's no money in it, to I can't manage it because it's too big. So I turned it down, right? So I went to the meeting and turned it down, got in my car, half an hour away from the site, I rang him back up and said, I've changed my mind, I'll do it. I took it on. That client from that meeting that I never that I virtually never went to turned into a half a million pounds a year client and he and he stayed with me for the next probably 12 years. So, yeah, there's the answer. His name's Bob, and he worked for a company called Countrywide at the time, he's retired now. Right, yeah, unbelievable. And I very, very nearly chinned him off and didn't go to it.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

Yeah, nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

Um, question for you have you got any nightmare horror stories, networking horror stories that you've just gone, oh that's gone, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Um I've not had a nightmare story. I've had a I don't know if this is a good answer or not. You know, when those I went to one of those B and I's right and uh I didn't know what it was, I'd never even heard of it when someone asked me that. I was at the start of my business journey. Have you done a BNI? You say you've done a BNI? Yes, I've done it.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

I didn't know that was coming. I've and I'd never networked in my life, and I was sitting there, and I think because I was the only new one, you know, and you've got to bring a guest, someone brings up I was someone's guest.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:04

And they said, Right, Michael, your time for your one-minute pitch. And I looked around and my heart was beating out my chest. I thought I was gonna throw up. I was like, What are you talking about? There's a room about 150 people. And I was like, Oh, I just felt horrendous, sweating, and I just stood up, and it's this isn't a nightmare, but it felt like a nightmare at the time. I was like, Oh my god, what do I say? And I just went, I just instinctively I said uh put your hand up if you've got a business, and everyone put their hand up and I said, Leave your hand up if you've got a website, and everyone had their hand up, and then I said, uh, leave your hand up if you've got a video, and everyone's hand went down in the room, and I said, 90% of all website traffic is video by 2020 something. Um if you haven't got a video, your business is gonna fail. Talk to me after I can make you one. And I had a queue of people after me. So it so it's actually a good it's actually a good story, but the the nightmare was fucking hell. It's like I was so scared. It was horrible, it's absolutely horrible. I had no idea it was coming, I'd never done anything like that before. Yeah, so half half nightmare, half good.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

Yeah, and public speaking is horrible.

SPEAKER_01 50:07

Biggest phobia in the world, I think.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. There you go then.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Right, uh so this question, uh, I think it does relate to this. He asked me it ten days ago, so I said I'd answer it. Right. Uh where is it? Sorry, trying to find it, okay. Right. So it says, Morning guys, I've listened to every episode so far and I've been taking notes. I'm currently getting the funds together to start a pressure washing and gut-cleaning business. I've run a couple of businesses B2B before, but have always found marketing and sales to be the most enjoyable part. I'm in lots of pressure washing groups and pages, and often see a lot of people saying I'd think twice about starting a business, it's too saturated, or the money isn't what you think. The optimist in me is says that they're just stuck in the Stone Age. I was wondering what you think about the general consensus for the exterior cleaning community. Hoping you might have some good news stories or some experience from businesses you work with. I think that relates perfectly to this, because it's networking and it's how are the clean these groups, I think, are a really important part of networking. I thought we can both have our own opinions on it and the people, kind of people that are in them and the content.

unknown 51:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:22

What do you reckon? So that was your first thought when you hear his thoughts on these groups. Because bear in mind, if you've just joined this industry like when I did, you don't know any better, so you assume these groups are gospel, which most people would do, I think.

SPEAKER_00 51:36

Yeah. The problem with these groups is they breed negativity, they breed it at such a rate. And he's I think he self-answered this quote question that he thinks it's dinosaurs stuck in the Stone Age, and and I would go along with that. Um, you know, this this this is this comes back to this mentality of we don't want people in because we don't want to lose work and it's a load of old bollocks. There is enough roofs, enough driveways. And I said this to who did I say it to you yesterday? I said to someone, if every roof cleaner in the country cleaned a single roof every day for the next 20 years, we would never run out of roofs to clean. That's how much work there is. That's how much work there is. So, no, mate, congratulations for want to do it yourself. Don't be put off by the negativity. That you know, there is there is too many people in these groups, right, who are giving their advice with fucking no idea. Fucking no idea. It's their opinion. Their opinion is that it's oversaturated, their opinion is they can't make enough money. Do you know why they're like that? Because their business isn't right.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Misery loves company.

SPEAKER_00 52:59

You you can make as much money as you want in this industry, as much money as you want. There is only you that sets the prices. If you want to be the cheapest or you want to be average, then set your prices at average or cheap. If you want to be the most expensive, set your prices at the most expensive, sort your marketing out, sort your sales out, sort your trust, and fucking enjoy the rewards. You don't need to listen to these people that are moaning, oh it's saturated, you know, this is wrong, that's wrong. Mate, honestly, you can make a really good living in this. It isn't for everyone because it's a mindset thing. People are stuck in their own minds that the price is this, and I can't go anymore. And something that I ask people is are you an average cleaner company or a good company? They say I'm a good company, so why are you charging average prices? And the answer I get back is uh because that's what everyone's charging around here. Fuck them, you're not everyone. Make yours fucking 20% dearer, 30% dearer. Stop doing what everyone else does. If you are a good company, charge good prices. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing, just go on your own journey, charge what you need and what you want to charge to run your business profitable, and you'll be fine. It's not going to be easy, but it's not meant to be easy. That's my take on it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 54:37

I think those groups are absolute cesspit. When I first joined, I thought it was the gospel. Like I just said, I thought this is where you network with all the others, and it can do. I'm not saying it's all bad, you can find some good people in there, and there is probably if you were to search whatever you're searching for, you'll find some good advice in there somewhere. But like I said, I think misery loves company, and I think the the advice that I see some people giving is just crazy. It's so, so bad. And I'm not a guru, you're not, you know, we're not we don't call ourselves gurus, but we like to have we have an idea of what works and what doesn't, and we get things wrong. But some of the advice, God almighty, on marketing. Oh man, yeah, I see so many people saying, look, I I'm honest and say, look, Facebook ads are amazing, but they're not the they're not a magic pill, they're not going to transform your business overnight, but they work, they fill people's calendars. The amount of people I say don't bother their shit, the waste of time. And no, and someone then will never run Facebook ads because they've seen that post. That's just one example. There's loads of topics that you could pick, and it just breeds negativity just because someone else people post their failures, I think, more in that group than their successes.

SPEAKER_00 55:37

Yeah. I I I've been handed my ass, right, in groups, Facebook groups, several times, right, by people that fucking couldn't scale the stirs, never mind a business. Seriously. And I made a point to someone, right, or on one of these groups when they tried to fucking turn me a new arsehole, right? And I said to them, do you know that only 3% of businesses in this country ever hit seven figures? Ever hit it. 3%. You think of how many businesses in this country there is, but only three percent ever get to seven figures. I said, I've done that twice and beyond in two different industries. And I'm taking advice off you who runs a fucking £50,000 a year window cleaning company. Honestly, honestly, and I'm not saying I'm fucking great at it, I'm just saying I've done it. It's factual, it's not me making that up. But you get advice from dickheads in these groups, or dickheads in these groups slating you, who have got no ground to fucking slate you.

SPEAKER_02 56:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

No ground at all. No ground, they've got nothing to back it up with. You know, you you've got to have the backing that when you speak, you go, okay, yeah, well, he he he or she's got the backing. I had a woman, I had a woman, right, go to company's house and download my company's histories and put it all over one of these groups trying to discredit me, right? Trying to discredit me. An externo cleaner, window cleaner woman. Fucking unbelievable. I had in the post earlier, I'd already done that myself, but she fucking deemed the need to go to company's house to discredit me. About what? Everything I say is true. I wasn't lying. I'd already said I'd put a company in liquidation, I'd already said what that company earns, but she had to go and find that to try and make her point stronger.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

Fucking honestly, they are absolutely thinking well, we both agree that it's a reflection on them.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

You know, we in the past you and I have been labelled as a scam and a few other things.

SPEAKER_00 58:02

I know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 58:02

But we both we know why that those people are saying that.

SPEAKER_00 58:06

And that blows me mind as well, right? That that that blows my mind. If you're a scam, or as I was called, a con man, right? Con men and scammers don't handle have longevity in any field, right? I've been in business for 26 years. For 26 years, right, I've written my own paycheck. I have increased my salary and decreased it through economical times to what I need to earn, right? And I've done it in trades, not selling courses, I've done it in trades, building trades, building businesses. And somebody still thinks I'm a con man. And I'm like, ah, really? What why what am I conning here? What am I conning here? I'm not asking you to buy anything off mate. I'm not asking you to buy anything at all. I give it all away for free. You just need to be able to decipher it and put it into your business. Yeah. And it's free. It's fucking free. Absolutely free. Everything online I give is free. Never ask anyone for a penny.

SPEAKER_01 59:21

But the people the people who come out with this kind of stuff are the ones struggling and they're the ones in these groups. So massively, we're not trying to bash everyone, we're just trying to make you aware that the good the good people in those groups you won't hear much of because they're busy, they're off working.

SPEAKER_00 59:34

And and whoever asked that question, fair play to you for starting.

SPEAKER_01 59:38

Honestly, man.

SPEAKER_00 59:41

Alex, absolutely fair play to you, man. Go and enjoy it. Go and build something meaningful. Yeah. Build something with integrity. Don't set your prices too low and fucking go and get at it, pal. There's loads of work. Really, really enjoy it. And thanks for following and listening. And hopefully it will set the foundations for you going forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:01

Yeah, man, absolutely. Yeah. Keep your head down. Do all the things that you need to grow foundations, solid foundations. Yes, there's lots of companies doing it, so market better. Get yourself out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

I think that's the end, isn't it? I think we might have gone over. I think we've got over.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Oh God.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

That's alright. Maybe we haven't. We messed around for two minutes at the start, and I think we're okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Cool. Okay, that's the end of the Panotum episode, last episode of the season next week. Uh which I can't remember what it is. Scaling your business, I think. I think that might might be the last one. Um yeah. But thank you everyone for listening. Uh and we'll see you all on the last episode of season one next week. Cool. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:41

Take care, bye bye.