Episode 12: Scaling Your Business

In the final episode of Season 1 of The Clean Hour, we break down what it really takes to scale a pressure washing business without losing control, sacrificing quality, or burning yourself out.

Whether you're aiming for your first £100k year or building a multi-van operation, this episode covers the systems, mindset and decisions that separate owner-operators from business owners.

In this episode we discuss:

✅ Knowing when you're ready to scale
✅ The systems you need before hiring
✅ Marketing that grows with your business
✅ Hiring your first employee
✅ Letting go of control
✅ Common scaling mistakes
✅ Building a business that works without you
✅ Creating long-term, sustainable growth

If you're serious about growing your pressure washing business, this episode is packed with practical advice you can start implementing today.

🎧 Don't forget to subscribe for weekly episodes covering marketing, sales, systems and business growth for pressure washing business owners.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Clean Hour Podcast. It is the final episode of season one. The final episode, that's crazy. Um Matt, welcome back to the very last one. How are you feeling? It's been a little little journey, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 0:14

It has, yeah. The last one for season one.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

Yes.

unknown 0:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

But no, I I you know, do you know what? I I've I don't think I've had as many messages as you, but I've had messages, I've had phone calls, I've had people say to me, they've really, really got some out of here. So yeah, man, it's been a good journey, hasn't it? I've right enjoyed going back over it all. So it's been good, yeah, really good.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Yeah, man. This last episode of the season is it's it's scaling your business. That's the title of it, how to scale your business. But it kind of combines the previous 11 episodes into one final one, which I think's really good. Um, so some of the things that we mentioned we've spoken about before, but it it just ties everything in nicely, I think, doesn't it? And it's the kind of the icing on the cake, I think, for this journey. Um, so we'll go into things like when are you ready to scale, the foundations, how to scale, some mistakes that we've seen and we've both made, and then hopefully that is it then for season one, and you've got everything you need to get going and and uh and start building your foundations. Um let's get into this one then. So scaling, um would you agree that it's everyone's or most people's goal is to scale when they first start out? You hear people saying all the time, I want two vans, I want three vans, I want staff, I want this, I want to take over the world. Would you say that's most people's goal with this kind of kind of business?

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Yeah, I I I do believe that that people and I think I think it's right, right? You you don't go into working for yourself to say, oh, you know, I'm just gonna be me, I'm gonna do 30 grand a year and just you know. I think people that go into business and make that step have an ambition and have a drive and have a goal that is is of of some size, um, and I think that's pretty much everybody that goes into business. Otherwise, you wouldn't do it, would you? You'd just stay in a job for all the stress, the lack of money, lack of sleep, you just wouldn't do it. So I think most people have this initial onset that they want something a little bit bigger. Um, but I think where people fail in that is is they don't set it big enough. I think they keep it really, really conservative, right? And that's where they fail because then they get stuck because there's no real definition of the goal, you know. It's just oh yeah, I'd probably like a couple of vans. Why don't you go into it and say I want 40 vans, I want 40 vans in the next 10 years, and I'm gonna be the biggest external cleaner, the biggest window cleaner, the biggest roof cleaning contractor in the southwest of England, right? That that that's the goal, and if that's the goal pinned down, then guess what? Everything you do is going towards that. Yes, you might not get there, you might exceed it, but at least you've got something that's a really big goal to aim at. Where if you just say, oh yeah, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go along and I might I might get another van in a couple of years or in a couple of lads, and you're just aimlessly just plodding along. If you set your goal from day one and set it absolutely, you know, top level, yeah. You know, people might think you're mad when you tell them you want 50 vans or you want to be a national window cleaner or or whatever it is, whatever your goal is, but that drive then to get there, you know, will keep you going. And I and I think that's I think everybody's got that in them when they decide to be self-employed and work for themselves. I just think that I think people set it, I think they set the bar too low. I think one is because they're scared of failing, and two, if they set the bar low, well, they could just bumble along, can't they? And I think that that's where it is with people.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

I think that's one of the best points you've made so far. I think you bang on there, and that's great. Sorry, so I don't mean to sound surprised. I'm not doubting you. Also a broken clocks right twice a day. Um, no man, I think I think that's dead on because um, and I've actually never thought of it that way. I think when people just want the extra van, and we'll get onto this. I think it caused it can cause more harm than good, it can cause you more bother. I think it's the middle ground, isn't it? So like you're up sometimes you're better off, say, on your own and make taking that profit. But you're right, if you want to grow, go big. Don't just that middle ground seems to be where businesses can die, isn't it? You've got to be one or the other.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

It it kills everything, right? It kills the dream, it kills everything. You know, if you're sat in your office now, or sat in your boss's van, and you're thinking I can do this myself, or I want to do it myself, I'm fed up of going to work for someone else and I'm gonna do it. Well, set it massive. I've told you my backstory I wanted to be the biggest cleaning and maintenance contractor in the southwest of England and became obsessed with it. But that led me to over £2 million in sales because I had, and I was still going and going and going. I'm never gonna stop because I'd set the goal that big that every day was about achieving it, and I think that's what people lack, they they lack that very first bit, and that's why it was really early on. I think it was episode one, weren't it? Goal setting and vision. Set it massive, man. Set it massive. Doesn't matter if you don't reach it, but if you set it that big, you imagine if you set it that big, imagine if you set right your goal to have 50 vans in whatever trade it is, 50 vans. Imagine if you only get halfway. Imagine the size of your company, still gonna have 25 vans, where if you just say, oh yeah, I'm gonna do this on my own, you know, in a couple of years, or might look at getting a labourer or a second van. Guess what? You're gonna stay on your own, earning, you know, just a salary that you could have had in a job with no stress, with no stress, so you might as well set it massive, and if you fail, you fail.

SPEAKER_02 7:02

So what's that phrase? Aim for the moon, you might hit the stars or the other way around. I'd really like the stars at the moon. I say loads of these little proverb things. I might have to chop these off and put them into a little compilation. I must sound like an absolute nut.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

And and it is, it it really is, and I think that's the start of it, right? That's the start. What is and then we go on to scaling with it, don't you? Well, what's the point of scaling if there's no money in the if your ambition isn't there? Or or the other the other thing that catches people is scaling for ego, innit?

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Always comes back to ego, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

That that's a really, really dodgy line to go down, innit? Well, if you scale. Why do they scale? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:46

Um they think the grass is greener.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yeah, I would say, I would say that most people, most businesses scale for the wrong reasons, and I think that's where they get caught out. They were doing really, really well at whatever size they were at, then they scale because they think the grass is greener, and they don't understand the metrics to scale, and then it bites them on the arse, then they get in trouble, then the company goes. And I think that I think understanding the the metrics to scale, when to scale, how to scale, are really, really important, you know. But but a lot of people do scale on ego, they scale on ego, and we also scale because we think it's never gonna end, which you know, you've got to have a little bit of that, haven't you? But things do end, you know. People people scale thinking this is never gonna end. This is a license to print money, you know, and unfortunately, things do end, things have cycles. Um, and I think I think you need to have a real realistic look at why you're scaling. Why you're scaling? I always say scale on demand, right? That's the first, that is the very first bit of the puzzle that I put together for people is demand. Are you scaling because you physically cannot keep up with demand? Is your exterior cleaning business book solid for over 90 days? And the inquiries are still coming in in the tenfold, and you are turning work down because you physically can't get to it. That's got to be the first one, the very first one. If you say, Oh, I need a second van, and I say to you, brilliant, hey hey, I love progress. How are we getting on? Mate, I need a second van. I'm gonna buy a second van, split the team up, and then I say to you, how far ahead are you booked up? Oh, six weeks. Six weeks, and you want a second van? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then it'll only be three weeks.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Can you not see the pressure you're putting on yourself? You know what? I'll just jump in there with that metric. I would say three months solid in over summer, I think you could add that in. Because you know, when things slow down and leads slow down because that summer dip, like you, for example, you're booked up to October now. You know, unless something drastic goes wrong, when you advertise again in those autumn and winter, you're gonna fill that up again. So, like anyone can be busy in the peaks in the biz in the season where all the leads are coming in. How are you when things get tougher? Because if you were booked three months Jan, Feb March for Roves, wicked. But how does your June, July, August look? I think that could that's something worth saying because you you could get a false sense of security. Do you know what I mean? Is that fair to say?

SPEAKER_00 10:48

Mate, 100%. I get I I see on platforms, in messages, in my private WhatsApp group, people saying, Oh, I've never known it this quiet, I've never known it this quiet, what's going on? You know, my ads aren't working, this ain't working, I've not sold a job for a couple of days or a couple of weeks. We we everything we do as external cleaners, right? Works on the weather cycle. The longer it is hotter, the less leads, the less work we get. So if you're in a position that you know this, you build through the winter months, so January, February, March, April, May, we increase our budgets, we sell like mad at the right price, and we stack up the work to get us through what we think and hope is going to be a really hot summer. And then in September, last week of August, we fire the ads back on, we put the spend back up, and we go again, we go again all the way till May next year. But you know, but people that are scaling, like you said, start of the year, because everyone's coming out of the winter slums and wants the house looking nice. No, you you've got to have it, you've got to be on demand. Demand has to be there. Your order book needs to be really healthy. More importantly, with that, you need a proven marketing strategy that you can scale with. You can't scale through word of mouth, you know, you can't. You can't wait for the phone to ring. You have to have a system that you can turn up and down to scale a business. Whether it if it's Facebook ads, right? If you know you put a grand into Facebook ads and it gives you average 12 grand out, and that keeps your one van busy, then before you go and get the second van, increase it. See what it brings in. It's not gonna double because it doesn't work like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:03

It's not always a straight line, it's not people think that people think we just oh, I'll just double it, I'll get double the work.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah, it's not work that way. So you've but you've got to have a system in place that allows you to scale, you know. But this comes back to everything, doesn't it? How many people do we speak to that don't know how many leads they're getting? Don't know what the conversion is, don't know what the cost of acquisition is. I ask them what the cost of acquisition is. No idea. No idea. How are you ready to scale if these are the basic questions you can't answer? You know, because you're busy in March doesn't mean you need a second van in June.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:41

Probably, probably if you've not got it right, you probably don't need one van in June because you're gonna be scratching your ass.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

You want the two vans in March, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So so it's it's demand for me, demand for your your product, your service. If you are in high demand constantly, then that's the time where you think, I can do this sensibly, I can put another van on because demand is there, um, and I know my figures, I know where I want to go, I know where I'm heading to, this is how we're gonna do it. But but it if it's not there and you're doing it on the back of ego, you're gonna disappear, you're gonna disappear quickly. I think or you're gonna be selling your van with all the care.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Which happens in about a month's time all over the all over the groups. Absolutely. So I mean I think I think we spoke about this in the first episode, I can't remember, it's so long ago. But I'd even take it back a step before that, and I'd look at you personally as the business owner, what do you want? Because let's take ego out of it. Do you know what you want to earn as an individual and what kind of lifestyle you want? Because let's just say you want, I don't even know, let's say 50k a year, let's say you want to take a 50 grand salary, and then so put all your bills down, put your holidays, put your mortgage, put your rent, all this stuff, add it up and find out that figure that you need to earn and then take into account your tax and your core tax and all that kind of stuff. That for me affects whether you should scale or not, because just getting that second van can actually and I don't want to put people off scaling here, that's not what this is about, but it's to make you think about it. The second van can sometimes make you earn less than 50k if that's your aim, because there's there's more, there's double the fuel, there's double the insurance, there's the labourers' fees, there's all the stuff that comes with it. And also, we haven't even begun to talk about the pressure that comes with it. So you have to work out what you want as a person first, I think, before you even look at what the business needs, because that will dictate what you want to do. You can 50k might get you might be one van and gives you a really, really nice lifestyle and great profit, compared to that second van might give you 30. You know what I mean? So that's something I think to think about. That that exercise you can do today is write down what you want and all your outgoing for your personal life, then shift it over to your business and then see where your business is at. It's a good it's a good exercise for anyone to do. I do I do it every year.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

Well, well, it is, and and I I now run that pretty much now in the very first two or three sessions of my mentoring, and it's called Find the Gap. Yeah, and what I get them to do now is to write down their ideal life, their ideal life. Picture your ideal life, where you want to live, even if it's crazy, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Where do you want to live? I want to live on this road in fucking in Reading. I want to live on this road, I want to live in this style of house. What's the mortgage gonna cost you? What's the down payment? Where are your kids going to go to school? Are they gonna be privately go to school? Do you want to join a gym membership? Do you want to go to the barber's once a week and have your hair cut and have a shave? All this, what car do you want to drive? What's it gonna cost you? Literally, where do you want to go on holiday? How many times do you want a holiday? You build, if I had a magic wand, I asked you to build your ideal life, right? And we do it on a spreadsheet, you get to the bottom, and it gives you a figure. It gives you a figure, and that figure might be £160,000 a year is your ideal life, right? Okay, we then take that figure and we put it into the next bit of the equation, your business. What does your business need to do to generate that? How does your business look? Well, I could do that on my own because I charge I charge £90,000 a day. Okay, brilliant. Do you know what I mean? But you can literally then work out what your business needs to do, and and then when we take it even further back into the process, right? We know what you charge, we know how much work you can do, now we know how many leads you convert, we now know what the cost of acquisition is, now we know how many leads you need. So see how the picture's now all building up, but it's all started with, like you said, what is your dream life? What happens is people go, Oh, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna start a business because I'm fed up with working for fucking gym, so I'm gonna start my own business, but nothing is is put out in front of them. So if they don't know what their ideal life looks like, how do they build the ideal business to get them to their ideal life? They just keep going over the same shit, low prices, struggling to get work, marketing that doesn't work, no ideas on numbers, foundations are broken, the goals aren't there because they haven't built their ideal life, you know, and it might be something simple. That was just the mad extreme. Your ideal life might be I want to work Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and I need to earn fucking 70 grand a year. That's it, right? Okay then. So how do we get that? So we take those three days, we run the numbers, we run what you do as a business, we then work out how many leads you need to convert this, and this is the price you need to charge to run your business. That, if we do that and we get that in place, we will get you to your three days a week, 70 grand a year. No way of doing it, not by luck, not by guessing, it's by numbers and knowing what your goal is. If your goal is three days a week and you need 70 grand, well, that will tell me that you need to charge and making this up £1,500 a day. Okay, cool. £1,500 a day. How do we get £1,500 a day? You ain't gonna get it cleaning gutters, are you, on your own? So, right, if you need £1,500 a day, then what's the high-ticket offering? Roof cleaning or render cleaning, right? Okay, so your price now for a roof is £1,500 a day. Ah, yeah, but these terrace houses won't pay it. Well, stop fucking advertising to terrace houses, go to the private estates where the houses are four or five million pounds upwards and offer your services there because they will pay 1500 quid a day for a roof clean, and you can now see how we build this into it, yeah, and that's it all links back, don't it?

SPEAKER_02 20:45

It's so important, it's so important. There are I think I said this in episode one as well. I I think I know five large roof cleaning companies who have scaled back eventually after riding the wave of it being really successful, but scaling back because you make more profit as the business owner. And scaling back doesn't mean you failed, it just means you've been more savvy and you're being more sensible if anything. What I've said before, when I when I grew my wedding business, it went from 10 weddings a year to over 90 the following year, and I probably earned 50% less with the 90 weddings because I just didn't have a fucking clue what I was doing, and didn't didn't do any of the stuff we just mentioned, none of that was taken into account. And it's so easy to make that mistake. Ego, you think you're doing well, but when you look at it, no. And that's not to put you off scaling, we'll go into how to scale in a minute and all that, you know, but just you have to be aware of it because it can kill you. Not literally, but you know what I mean? The stress and the kill your business.

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah. And and and one one of the biggest things is when I say to people, I had a question yesterday about scaling on on TikTok. Someone said, When do you know is the right time to scale? And it's the same with the same answers we just give her. Um, but but when I asked people, When people come to me and say, I'm looking at scaling, and we run, we run the basic numbers, right? And you know, and this blows this this blows my mind, right? We run the basic numbers for them to scale, and they're gonna make 12% profit.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

With it, with with like an extra van, you mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:25

With an extra van, with all the extra marketing costs, with the extra machinery, with the extra fucking insurances, with the extra fuel bill, with everything that goes into it, right? And that's just financial. Never mind the stress. Um then this blows the mind. I say, put your prices up. What? Put your prices up 12%. Oh, I can't do that. Put your prices up 12% because if you're gonna scale, your prices are gonna go up anyway to pay the extra overt. So you might as well not scale and put your prices up 12% because you're gonna make the same profit without the stress, without all the extra bills. And that that that conversation, I can't tell you. People are more willing to scale knowing it's wrong, than they are to put the prices up 12%, and that I'm like that, and and I I can spend so long on a Zoom call with people trying to get them to see how fucking mad and how how your ego is going to fucking ruin your great little business where I've just given you a solution in the last hour to get the same profit out of it with no outlay. And you can do that tomorrow morning. Or do you make a do it tomorrow morning? Tomorrow morning, every single quote you send out from tomorrow morning, add 12% to it. But they won't pay it. Says who. But they won't, they just don't pay that round here. Says who. You don't know what they're thinking. Nobody knows what anybody else is thinking. You are thinking that your potential customers won't pay it. But you don't know it. So try it. Try it, and guess what? You're probably gonna be pleasantly surprised.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

If your if your fucking, I don't know, pint of beer in the local pub increased by 12%. I bet you wouldn't even notice straight away. That's just an example. Yeah. Fucking what's what was very British to measure the cost of a Freddo. But you know what I'm saying? Like that's always increased. Um I know it's not a vital service, but companies like um British Gas and your water companies, they're always putting the prices up. Always. Yeah, exactly. Always, and you just you pay. I know that's a vital service, but like I've sat I've used Sky TV before as my example. They always put the prices up and let's get on with it.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

But let's let's look at it another way, right? Not everybody shops on price. Do they? Not everyone shops on price, you know. If if you're gonna put you know, if you're gonna put your your prices up, then you know, where where's the issue, right? Where's the issue? So at the moment, and this comes from a conversation I had this week, right? I asked, I asked a customer, a client of mine, he said, Oh, I've just won two roof cleans this week, and he told me the prices of the roof cleans, and they were massively different, massively different. I said, Are they both a day? He said, Yeah. So why is the different price? Because he's pricing per square footage. I said, so you're losing money. No, no, no, no. I said, you are, you're losing money. Anyway, we we went through this whole scenario about putting your prices up and making them right. And and he just he just couldn't get it. He was terrified that people won't buy them, but the key bit is right. I said to him, What what's your conversion? Are you ready for this? This this blew my mind, right? He said, 60-70% right, and this was before we got to the prices. I said, 60-70% conversion. He went, yeah. I said you're too cheap. He said, How'd you know that? I said, you're converting 60 to 70% of Facebook leads. Yeah. So you're too and his understanding was because he's really good. That was his understanding. I said, okay, I'll go along with that, that you're really good, and I'm happy that you said you're really good. So why don't you put your prices up by 10% tomorrow morning, convert 40% because you're really good, earn ten percent more, and do less work. But that took me probably an hour's phone call, zoom call to get that. And I'm hoping he's done it, he said he would do it. I've not heard back off him, but it's this mentality again. You know, people are charging low prices, converting really, and then he's got that worry that he hasn't mentioned scaling, but that's a prime example, innit? He's converting 60 to 70 percent because he's cheap. Then he thinks, oh, I want another van. Because this isn't gonna end, because I could scale this, but you can't because you're scaling because your prices are wrong.

SPEAKER_02 28:09

But the the the danger I think there's more danger there because if you're if he's saying it'll work because I'm cheap. Well, what if someone comes in who's half your price? Gone? Well, there's a thing with pricing, isn't there? It'll always be someone cheaper.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Well, the there's there's three brackets, right? There's three brackets for pricing. You've got high, middle, low.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Right. 90, let's say 96% are in the middle. So 96% of contractors, your competitors that are on your doorstep are in the middle bracket, right? And that's where our mentality says we need to be because everybody's in that, so we're all about the same. This is the issue. You're in the wrong bracket. You want to be in the 1% high or the three percent low. You don't want to be in the middle bracket, because you're all the same, you're all the same, you're all competing on price, so you're better off if you've got the minerals to put yourself in the 1% and be the highest and not in the average, because not everybody shops on price, so you're better off to be in the higher bracket than the average bracket, and and and the proof in that people will be sat listening going, he's fucking off his head him. What do you mean I'm gonna be the fuck? Right. This is the proof, this is the proof that this works. Cotswold roof cleaning, as you know, is my company, is in the 1%. We are the dearest roof cleaner in this area by a mile, and we're book solid till the 14th, 15th of October with 20% deposits paid. Why? Because I'm not competing on price. I understand that my audience don't shop on price, they don't shop on price, they they shop on quality, service, reputation, trust, and the ability to get the job done absolutely on point. Yep. So put yourself in the 1%. Now, if I was in the average price bracket, I probably wouldn't be as busy because I'm average, because I'm telling people I am the most expensive roof cleaner. People are out right shopping on price. I want the best roof cleaner. This is my house, this is my roof. If they mess that roof up, it's probably gonna cost me 50, 60, 70 grand to replace it. So I want the best doing it, and I'm not shopping on price, but people are still in that average because they're terrified, they're terrified to come out of it, because that's all they know, and once you get put in that bracket, it's really hard to get out of it. I mean, it's really hard because your own mind doesn't let you get out of it. But how do you scale with an average price? How do you scale with an average price? Because people think when they scale, they're gonna double the profit, they're not, they may get some way to doubling the turnover, but your profit, I promise you, will go down because it's all the hidden costs, it's all the hidden costs that come with it that you don't take into consideration, and and it's a real big problem, you know. We we scaling 100%, absolutely all for it, if we're scaling for the right things at the right time. Absolutely, I'll support you, we'll do it, and we will get there, and it'll be great, but let's get it right before we scale. Too many people scale on the back of a good couple of months, like March, January, you know, March, April, May. Yeah, we'll scale, get another van, can't keep up with the work, and then come August, they're laying lads off.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

Van's not working.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Do you think um like cards on the table? Yeah, this industry is is made for scaling. I just look at the evidence, I look at people c companies I know, people I know, all the people I work with, out of everyone I've come across, I if I was to put people who have scaled massively and been successful with it versus people who have stayed one band and made and made good money, there's very, very few, if any, who have scaled massively and been successful? You know, if you just look at just pure the evidence of people you know. Or is it just that or is it just that I haven't come across them yet? What do you reckon if you're like a gun to your head and have to say yes or no, is it made for it?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

You think it is made for it?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

And you know why it's made for it? Why? Because the volume of work is there if you're marketing sales and your price is right. And it's it's it's so it's there. I suppose it's got to be people, but Ben's gutters is a prime example, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 33:27

They're they're one that I can think of.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah. Ben's gutters is a prime example. Prime example. The market is there, right? If you look outside your window now at how many properties you can see from your window that need your services, the only reason they're not getting your services is because they don't know about you. Yeah. That that's it, innit? Visibility. Yeah. What why what why why do I drive past uh, you know, and you do this when you're in this job, don't you? I spend my time now looking at roofs.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

Everywhere I go everywhere I go.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah. And how many do you see that are cleaned? Fucking next to none. Yeah. Next to none. I can't do any more to get I I'm I'm a big advocate of social media and visibility. And I think that's why we're so busy and the work is good. And like I said, we're the dearest. But it it's massively scalable if you get it right, and it's just visibility, in it. It's that visibility. People don't know they need their roof cleaning until they know they need their roof cleaning, and they don't know you're it you exist. If you never post on social media and you're relying on, you know, word of mouth or a little bit of a magazine article, then you're not going to scale, are you? How do Ben's how do Ben's gutters scale, right? We get a handwritten, well, printed, we shouldn't anymore, but we do, gutter cleaning thing through the post every six to eight weeks, right? I in your area cleaning gutters, give us a shout, Ben, or whatever it says, right? Every single customer that's ever used them, then gets an email from them saying, Can we do this for you? It's been a year since we did your gutters, or it's been six months we're coming into winter, right? They've got it on repeat, they've got it dialed in. They're a national company. National company. So yeah, scaling is there, right? Are you gonna scale? Are you gonna scale driveway cleaning? Yeah, if you wanted to. If your aim was to be a national driveway cleaning company like Ben's Gutters, why can't you be Michael's driveways? But the thing with Ben's gutters is right, and I don't know the backstory, I don't know anything. Maybe I'll have a look into the backstory and see where it came from. But I'm guessing, whenever if Ben is actually a person, I imagine he is. Yeah, if he is, I'm guessing that from day one, he was the dearest. From day one. Because you can't scale. Well, I'm gonna rephrase that right. You can scale being cheap because you do it on quantity, on quality quantity, not quality. And then for a prime example, we take Greg's, don't we? Greg's have scaled into Europe now, but they've done it with quantity.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

Are they a franchise Ben's gutters? I'm just looking at them now. I don't I don't know. Um because it just takes about to that last last episode when we spoke about uh contracting. I'd I'd I'd lean towards that's what more they're doing than than having one Ben at the top of the tree hiring. Would you imagine it's more towards that? I don't think they are, no. I think it is you got Ben's gutters, Birmingham, Ben's Gutters Middle, there's loads of Ben's gutters, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

And I think it all I think it all's I don't know if it is a franchise, I think it just is them as a company. Um but so you can scale being cheap, yeah, you know. I mean look at look at um pound land. Yeah. Poundland. Everything's a pound. Well not even no, but it but it was in it.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:30

They they scaled with everything being a pound. How the how the fuck do you make any how do you make any money? Everything being a pound. Well, the supply chain gets everything in for 10p or 15p, but they buy it in bulk. Do you remember megabus?

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Do you remember with a big pound on the back of it? I got I had a I got on a pound one before, I remember. Yeah, we all did when to the uh Gatwicker think on it for a holiday.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Now, now now there is another twist to that story there. Megabus don't exist anymore. Pound land have gone into administration.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

So you know, but but are Greg's going to go into administration? Well, no one knows what's in the future, but but then multi-billion pound industries with massive fucking pricing go into administration. Yeah, it there's no right rhyme or reason, right? But you the question was, can you scale in this industry? Yes, you can, but I think are you gonna the problem with scaling if you're cheap, right? If you're cheap and you're trying to scale, labour isn't cheap, vehicles aren't cheap, chemicals aren't cheap, equipment is astronomical, so you're trying to scale by buying the best of everything, or if you buy average of everything, it comes with a hefty price. The man hours to do the work comes at a hefty price. The tax, the national insurance, your insurance, your marketing cost, your cost of acquisition is a big cost, but then people are charging 600 pounds for a roof clean, and I'm like, ah, can you not see the problem with that? Can you not see how that's not scalable? How about you start your minimum roof clean at a thousand pound? Thousand pound minimum roof clean, right? Because then there's profit in there, then you can scale. That's how it works. You can't be doing cheap work with massive overheads and think you can scale it because you're gonna run out of money. You're going to run out of money, and you're gonna run out of money really, really quickly, and that's the problem we've got. Yeah, that people want to scale, think they can scale because they're busy, but they're as cheap as chips, and you can't scale, you just can't. Well, you can, but it will go pop very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

What are some uh non-negotiables for having a business that can scale? Obviously, we mentioned the demand there, but what do you reckon the business how does a business have to look for you if you were to go if you had a little checklist and you went, someone came to you and said, Am I ready to scale Matt? What are you looking for with with found foundations?

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Which are what foundations underpin everything. So what when we talk foundations, systems, is everything systemized? Numbers, do you know your numbers like the back of your hand? If I ask you a number, a basic number, and you can't give it me, then you're not ready to scale. You have to be obsessed with the fact everything we build, if you were a builder, right? If you were a builder and you build houses and you build houses on, you know, a foot of foundations, and after fucking two years they all start sinking, and you but your houses above ground are brilliant, they're fucking brilliant, they look brilliant, they're modern, they've got everything in them, but three years down the line they start sinking. What why are they sinking? Why is this house sinking? Because your foundations aren't right, and if you look at that as your business, it's exactly the same, right? If you start when you are new and you build the foundations, you know, yes, we can't afford to sit to to um systemize everything from day one. I get that, but build the foundation, build the things that you can afford to do, right? You can afford to understand numbers. Why? Because that's you, you and time, so you can understand, you can put whiteboards up in your garage, in your shed, in your home office, write everything down, have it all on the Excel spreadsheets. They self-formulate, have everything, every penny in, every penny out, right? So there's the numbers foundation, so you know exactly where your numbers are. Then as we get a little bit bigger, we can systemize things, can't we? We can systemise things, we can systemise the invoicing, we can systemize the the follow-up, the nurturing. We've spoken about that everybody's not in a buying cycle. We may have to nurture them for 12 months. How's how are we doing that? I can't do it. I can't send emails every six weeks or social media post to everyone. So I have a systemized system that does that for me. Don't need to worry about it until they press unsubscribe, then they go off the mailing list because they might not be in the buying cycle yet. I'm trying to push them up the funnel to the buying cycle by nurturing them. So we've got the systemization, we've got the numbers, you know, and then we then we start looking what we spoke about demand. So we're building this really solid base to allow us to build these beautiful houses or build this beautiful business on. If your foundations are weak, then as you scale, as you build your business, they're gonna start sinking, they're gonna start cracking, and all of a sudden, your business is gonna start going the other way, and you won't know. You could be now at a quarter of a million pound turnover, you could be at half a million, you could be at 750 or a million, and if your foundations are starting to go, you ain't gonna know where to start. Because at those figures, you're probably gonna have five, six fans office staff, and it's gonna just become a nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 43:51

It's it's much easier to fix the foundations early up early doors, isn't it, in year one compared to year five with staff.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Well, it it I and I use the builder because. It's a prime example, innit? Every house that's built, what's it built on? What's it built on? Fucking solid foundations. It's no different in business.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Why would you want to build a business with not no foundations or absolutely fucking weak fucking foundations that the minute you try to step up on it, it's just going to crumble. And that's where you need to be is foundations. You know, and we this this is a great episode, right? We've covered your ideal life. So we know what your ideal life, what you want it to look like. Bear in mind, you're doing this for you and your family, right? So point one, we know what your ideal life is, we know what it looks like. Then we went to the numbers and we put it into the business, and now we're building the foundations. So you see how it's all linking together, and then all of a sudden we're ready now to start pushing forward.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

It's really, really critical.

SPEAKER_02 45:01

Yeah, I think it's also talk about that the kind of person it takes to scale. I think it does. I don't I don't think it's made for everyone to scale. I think you've got to be a certain individual, don't if you agree with me there, because it it can take a toll. I think being an entrepreneur, I mean a business owner will take a toll anyway. Um the more you grow, potentially, the more stress you've got to, which it can affect your home life, and I think it's something to bear in mind as well. Um because it it can affect if you are gonna grow, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:29

If you are gonna grow and you want to scale, most people fucking end up divorced, separated, yeah, because there's a certain person, right? There's a certain type of person that wants to grow businesses, and you have to be fucking obsessed, you have to be obsessed in your pursuit, you know, and it and it does. Things have to sacrifice, things have to be put to the side. Family holidays, family birthdays, get together, gatherings, fucking meals, get sacrificed. It it's the way it is, it the way it is for the majority of people until you get to that position where you have scaled, built, the foundations are good, and you can step back and then start to re-reap the rewards. You may never get there, you may get there in a year, you may get there in 20 years, right? It is that that's a fact of it. But the people around you might not want that. They may have liked their life when you had a job. When you had a job, or you were just a one-man van on your own, and your ambitions were just to stay that they may have liked that because they've seen you every day, that you were you were involved, you had the family holidays, you had the weekends off, you didn't work nights. All of a sudden now, you're in your office four o'clock in the morning, you're in your office ten o'clock at night, you're out all day crafting, weekends you're fucking working, right? That's gonna take a toll. Not everybody signed, not everybody in your life signed up for that. They didn't sign up for you to become super focused entrepreneur running at 100 miles an hour, and the only thing you talk about is business, because that's right at the top of your list, you know, and the stress, and the reason why it's at the top of your list is because the stress you're under to make this a success, to give them a better life, is massive. Massive. It's not to be underlooked, you know. This journey of entrepreneurship, this is why it's not for everybody, right? It's not for the faint-eyed, it's not for the faint-eyed. You know, they say the first three years that 70% of businesses disappear. And it's not because the business idea is wrong or there isn't a demand for it, it's because the entrepreneur fucking can't stomach it. It it's it is absolutely vicious, in it. I said in the last episode, I've spent 26 years writing my own paycheck. That pressure alone, when you're in charge of writing your own paycheck, just that pressure, not staff's paychecks, your own paycheck, your own paycheck to pay your own rent, your mortgage, to clothe you, to feed you, to put you on holiday, to buy the nice car, to buy the shit car, to go and have a meal out. That pressure alone to write your own paycheck is astronomical, and people don't realise that. They see there'll be people watching these or watching us and watching other people they know in their family have a really nice life in a nice house with a nice car, nice clothes, nice holiday. And they go, How have they got that? And someone will say, It's because they work for themselves, and they go, Fuck it, I'm having a bit of that. That that then they miss everything else, and I think that's why people disappear, businesses disappear. It's not because the business is shit, the business would be really great, and it would have been really great in the hands of somebody else. It's not because you haven't got the business sense, it's because you haven't got the stomach for the stress and the fucking pain that goes with it. Yeah, that's the bit that they can't.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

It's the poison chalice, isn't it, for a lot of us? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Oh, 100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:59

100% poison chalice. I've got you you've you work for yourself, you choose your hours, but do you choose your hours? Because the hours choose you, I think. You can never switch up. We both know, you know, sitting on a deck chair on holiday, you're always thinking about work. It's impossible not to.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Yeah, you can't, you can't, you just it's just it's installed into you, isn't it? It's just the way it is. If you want to pay, if you want to write your own fucking paycheck, because that's ultimately what you're doing, right? You are writing your all your paycheck, and this goes back to putting your prices up, right? You think back to when you're employed, or anybody listening, think back to when you're employed, right? And I've just given you the easiest way to give yourself a 10% pay rise by putting your prices up. When was the last time you work for someone and they give you a 10% pay rise for doing nothing more, you don't have to work out any extra hours, you don't need to work weekends for them just by putting your prices up. Now, if you think about what you're getting paid now and add 10% to it, and everyone's circumstances are different, right? But you just think what that 10% could do for you could be another holiday, could be a better car, could be a down payment, it could be fucking anything.

SPEAKER_02 51:20

And I'm asking you to do it by just changing numbers, it could be a bit of buffer and a few savings takes some of the stress away from a slow month.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

Yeah, and and all I'm asking you to do is change numbers on a piece of paper. That's it. That that's it. It's not fucking I'm not asking you to go out and fucking work twice as hard. I'm asking you to change a number on a piece of paper. That's it. That is it. Um yeah, business man, it it's fucking feast or famine, innit? It's fucking kill or be killed. At times it is, innit?

SPEAKER_02 52:02

Yeah, it is. Well, this leads me on to the last bit, which is our last questions with each other of the season. Um I was thinking of a question that ties everything in, and my one to you is what is success to you right now, not overall trim light, like right now.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

What?

SPEAKER_02 52:25

As in is in business or life or what are we doing? What are you doing? Why are you doing Cobra? Why are you doing Cotswolds? Why are you doing mentoring? What's success? What is success to you? Okay, I I'm gonna Is there a moment, is there something success starts with health.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

I wake up every morning, I get out of bed. That's success. Because tomorrow's not granted, is it? Tomorrow's not granted to anyone. One thing that isn't granted is tomorrow. So so so success starts with fucking waking up in the morning, waking up in the morning, and then for me, success is helping people. I've done it all my life, right? Whichever way you look at it, I've done it all my life. From 16 joining the British Army, I've gone around the world helping fucking nations for 17 years. I joined the fire service for 10 years, helping people. People only call the fire service on the worst day of their lives, they don't call them on the best day, the worst day of their lives. What do we do? We fucking help them and we try and make it better. Business, every business I've run, has been helping people. So, me success is waking up tomorrow and being able to help people. And I've never ever focused on money. I've never really focused on because if you don't focus on the money and you focus on solving a problem and helping people, guess what? The money follows. And I'm not going to sit here and plead poverty, but if you don't focus on the money and you focus on the issues and solving them and helping people, the money follows. Whichever you do in any life. So that would be that would be what success looks like to go.

SPEAKER_02 54:18

That should be your um your VSL on your website. That's a great answer. Chop it up, put it as your video.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah, there you go. We've got it, haven't we? So I can do that. So that that's what it would be to me. Question to you. Mine's not gonna be as in-depth because my questions never are. Out of all the 12 series that we've done, the 12 episodes in season one, what would you say would be the one you recommend for people to watch repeatedly?

SPEAKER_02 55:01

Number one, vision and goal setting.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:05

I think if you get that wrong, you get it all wrong. And we're kinda we've kind of touched on it today. But for me, if you don't know what you want, how can you possibly move forward? And me having made that hu my biggest mistake is that wedding company when I made that in you in one of the years for a scale back. Because it it affects every aspect of your life, it really does. Relationships, money, stress, health. If you get if you get vision of goal setting wrong, I think from you're you you're gonna fail unless you rectify it. So and I think that's it is our what most watched episode, I believe. It is that one, I think. I think it's I think it's that one and sales are the two.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

It is by far vision one is is vision vision one, episode one, vision of goal setting is the top one. Yeah. Followed second by sales, so it's quite interesting that.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good, yeah. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Last question. Um, it's not it's only a little question, but I said I'd answer it for him. Uh, and I have lost it. Where is it? Okay. So he asked, as someone who's starting out, just starting out, would you say you need to get invoicing straight away at the minute the work's completed and paid the same day? And price is confirmed via text and email. There's more for you there. Read read that again, because I've As someone who's just starting out, yeah, would you say you need to get invoicing straight away? I think is he referring to cash flow there? Is he saying get start getting paid straight away and doing jobs and getting the cash flow in? I think that's what he's asking.

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Right, okay. Yeah, it doesn't matter if you're starting out or you've been going 25 years, do the work, get it signed off, get the invoice to them the same day. Especially if you're a one-man band, get the invoice to him the same day. Tell them that when you go to quote the job and they accept it, that payment terms are within 24 hours. It's not their money. Once you have supplied the service or product, that money then belongs to you. So then you have to make sure that money comes back to you. Your terms and conditions are 24 hours, no longer. At 25 hours, you start chasing. Do not let people sit on it. It's money that needs to be in your bank to fuel your success, to build your company, to allow you to keep giving the high delivery of services and standards, not standing there.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

If you've scaled, you can't be saying to your staff, oh sorry, lads, uh you know, she this woman hasn't paid, so you have to wait a few days. No.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

Tesco's won't let me go and fill me basket and pay them a couple of days later. Yeah, you've done your part of the deal. Because it's a deal, isn't it? You've promised to deliver them whatever roof clean, patio, render, gutters, whatever, and they've promised to pay you what we've agreed. You've delivered your bit, now they need to deliver theirs.

SPEAKER_03 58:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:11

And that's how relationships work. Yeah. Is that we both honour the deal. Yeah. So yeah, get your money in as quick as you can.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

Yeah, there you go. That's a wrap then for season one. We're done.

SPEAKER_00 58:24

I feel quite sad season one's over.

SPEAKER_02 58:26

Yeah, it's been good, man. It's like we said before, you know, just from an initial conversation about it, and then we've done what's that, three months of it. It's uh I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

And uh I I've enjoyed it more than I thought I would. I thought I would be okay, it's got a long time this in it. When we spoke about it originally, but it has taken me back on my journey, my failures, my successes, and I I've massively, massively enjoyed everything. I've enjoyed it that much that I'm right buzzing for season two.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yeah, season two. I didn't think I would be, but I am. I'm right excited for season two. Me too, man. Reason two. Season two, we're gonna have a few weeks off now and just let it breathe for a couple of weeks. You're going away. There's a few things going on. Um, but we will we will be back. Uh I can't give you an exact date, it won't be too long, but we're gonna put our heads together and and and think of a direction to it. It will be more ad hoc stuff, um, just random episodes, guests. You know, we're gonna think about what we want to do. But if you've listened, if you listen to just one of these episodes, go listen to all the 12 of them, see it as a journey and and just round it off, and that is season one, and season two is gonna be a bit different. Um, so yeah, wherever you are, thanks for listening. The the the viewing the viewing numbers are great, and it's good to see people listening all around the world, it's great. And uh, yeah, we'll be back. We'll be back very soon.

SPEAKER_00 59:50

Yeah, absolutely. Have a lovely summer, and we will catch you in season two.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Yeah, man. See you later.

SPEAKER_00 59:58

Cool, take care, bye.