Daniel Wilsher: Mental Health, Trauma & Turning Pain Into Purpose Part 1

In Part 1, Alex sits down with Daniel Wilsher for a raw, emotional, and inspiring conversation about resilience, mental health, and overcoming adversity.

After losing a parent to suicide, Daniel found himself battling depression, anxiety, addiction, and suicidal ideation for over four years. From failed businesses and family struggles to alcohol and substance abuse, Daniel opens up about the darkest chapters of his life and how they ultimately shaped his purpose today.

Now an award-winning TEDx speaker who has impacted over 80,000 people live, Daniel shares how he transformed pain into purpose — helping others navigate life’s challenges better than he once did.

An honest and powerful episode about survival, healing, and finding hope when life feels at its hardest.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Today I'm joined by Daniel Welsher, uh Channel Four pianist, finalist, inspirational speaker, and overall all round top guy. Pleasure to have you.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Good to see you as well, mate.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Um, okay, so Daniel, I had the pleasure of meeting you um at a an event a few weeks ago, Help for Heroes event. And both of us ended up speaking that night, um, but you actually ended up performing. And I heard a little bit of your story and your backstory, and a little bit about what you've been doing, where you've been, what you journey you've been on, and I want to know more. I have to say that it's not just me who wanted to know more, it was a lot of my friends, a lot of my connections, people were talking about you, and um I'm I'm super privileged to have you here today, and I would like to find out a little bit more about who is Daniel Wilshire. So good question. Yeah, and it's it's a great question. It's a great question, but you know, everyone probably sees some of your successes that you've been achieving and that you have achieved. You know, you were channel four uh finalist for the pianist, you were um you go and inspire and do these talks in front of hundreds, thousands of people. You're doing so much good. But who is Daniel? Where did your life start and what has the journey been like for you? In your you're only young, aren't you? You're only 20.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

29. 29. Although, although, although all the kids that I work with in the schools are shocked when I say 29, they think 24. So I use Clarins, mate. That's what it is. Yeah, don't worry, mate. Don't worry, 100%. Um, but it's a big question, it's a really big question. Like, who is Daniel? Um, and I can go 100% into kind of a little bit about the background in childhood. Um, but I suppose, you know, the true answer, the authentic answer, as I've seen on the board to that question, I'm rediscovering who I am at the moment in this new chapter uh of my own life. And it's been really interesting. I've gone through a bit of like an ego death slash big identity shift over the past six months, seven months, eight months, where there was some things within the self that you know I definitely wasn't comfortable with, knew needed to change. I had this vision of who I wanted to be in the future. Uh, had to let go of some things in the past, which I'm still, you know, they're still fighting to stick on to the self. That's okay. Of course, yeah, yeah, of course. But it's a beautiful journey, but it's a painful one, um, because there's grief that comes in that process. Um, and I'm probably about uh I'm probably about 40, I say about 40% upon realizing this new version uh of Daniel, which I'm excited to to become. Um so I'm still in the process of of finding what that that remaining 60% looks like. Um and I suppose the reasons for that. So in terms of my journey, my childhood, as you mentioned, I'm gonna start this a little bit differently to how I typically do, because again, part of this, part of this update, this this reason for change is that a lot of my life growing, or as I've been speaking, you know, the story that I've told um was focused on a lot of the things that went wrong. And as a declaration of trying to change my own language and spend more time in the future and change the narrative around some of these things, I want to begin today's podcast by talking about everything that went right in my childhood, is alright, we'll do that. I love that. Let's do that. So we stand there, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

And to be honest, right, there is no right or wrong. And I have learned, changed, adapted so many times, and I'm quite a lot older than you, I'm 46 now. And I have for the first time in my life got to a point where I'm actually probably the I'm not balanced balance, but I'm probably in the best mental shape that I've ever been in in that 46 years. But it is tough. A lot of work, a lot of failure, a lot of um things, you know, working stuff out, a lot of reflection, a lot of basically trying different things. So I'm excited. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm excited to hear that you've like that you're learning, that you're adapting, that you're changing.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, exactly. And and I am as well, to be honest. Um, because I definitely felt a little bit stagnant, and so this change has been, yeah, it's it's been welcomed, um, although it's been challenging, and we'll come on to why it's challenging anyway. But in terms of the the beautiful parts of Daniel's childhood, uh grew up in a loving family, mum, superwoman, uh, she's a teacher, which is the reason I'm a public speaker today. She's an English teacher. So my use of language, I pride myself on the way that I use language because I believe that you know, for me, if I'm a if I'm speaking, my job is to create something within your brain, you know, an image, a emotion, exactly stimulate it's whether it, yeah, whatever it is, it's stimulate. Yeah, exactly that, and to to to create almost like a movie. Uh, and there's a number of ways to do that, but one of the key ways is language, and so people often hear me speaking and say, Dan, you speak like you're like 40 years old, and uh and uh similar to you and you blame your blame your me, and um you know I think a great way to do that is to to use language and to be eloquent and to find words and create metaphors and whatever to be able to paint a really clear picture in someone's mind. So I pride myself on the use of language uh and like to speak quite poetically in that sense as well. Um, but my mum was an English teacher growing up, um, and just the most caring, the most loving woman. And you know, we didn't have too much growing up, but uh, you know, times when we were struggling for money, but she'd always pay for me to go and learn guitar because I started playing guitar at five years old and I excelled really, really quickly, and music was like my way of understanding the world. Um, I was like the fastest kid in primary school, so I was great at sports. I had this childhood where you know my mum just let me be whoever I was. I was a footballer on a Saturday, I was playing Nirvana at six, seven, eight years old, you know, on the evenings with the guitar. I was trying to teach myself piano and stuff later on in life. I went through every single phase from getting a first two-pack album at 11 years old, from Nirvana at six years old to Guns N' Roses at 9, 10, 11, Metallica, then into like UK grime, and there was these like shifts of identity, which my mum she never ever caged me, and she never said, Oh damn, you know, can't wear this. I mean, when I was six, she bought we went to Afflex Palace in Manchester and she bought me a leather biker jacket with tassels on. And I was like five, six years old walking around Rochdale with this leather biker jacket on. I've still got it now, weighs a ton. Um, and you know, I had this hat with this fire and all this stuff, and she just let me express and understand who I am, which was amazing. So, you know, props to my mum for for that because it helped me really get a solid understanding of what was important to me and who I was at a really young age. Uh, and I'd also, you know, been open to so different, so many different forms of music as well, and like experienced again when we talk about language and and and experience and and music, and it was a great way for me to understand the world through the music that I was listening to. Um, I had amazing friends in in school, I was head boy, I was you know a really gifted young man uh who found things very easy, um, was naturally talented, um, and you know, had had a had a wonderful experience growing up. So I want to start there, which I'll let you know. The first time I've done that on a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

Do you know what though? I could see it in your eyes. Yeah, yeah. I could see the happiness in your eyes when you're talking about your mum, when you're talking about that connection. Of course, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's it's lovely. It's lovely. And it's true. And it's true, and it's true.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

The difficult challenges, uh, we can go into those because they give good context as to why I do the work that I do at the moment. Um, so I had a lot of loss when I was young, uh, the biggest one being the loss of father to suicide uh at nine years old, and and that was you know astronomically challenging. But there was a lot that stemmed from the trauma, a lot of drive, uh, a lot of kind of you know wanting to reach this place of success because then I could look after my family, and and kind of this huge desire to want to change the world in essence. Um, but there's a lot of pain that comes along with an event like that, especially at nine years old, because the ages of seven to eleven for a young boy's brain is a developing a huge so the impact of any adverse childhood experience on the way that the brain forms is uh you know it's astronomical when you go through something like that. And it's also challenging because I didn't really have anyone around who understood understood or knew how to deal with the situation, and so as a young boy, I didn't have anyone who really sat down and went, you know, adults make mistakes, it's this isn't this kind of and and there was a lot of internalization. Uh and so I went on a journey to try and understand why did that do what he did? Was it me? What was my role to play in it? You know, all of those. So you internalise it. I mustn't have been good enough, you know. I I I if if I was good enough, he would still be here today. So it was those things, and it's and you shake your head, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 9:25

I'm shaking my head because I know for a fact that basically it had nothing to do with you. Yeah, exactly. It had nothing to do with you. And the whole reason that I have set up clarity and that I have basically formed Clarity Circle now is that I cannot help a single person once that person reaches end of their own. Exactly, yeah. And nobody can, nobody can, but we are all on a journey throughout our whole life where we can connect, where we can be inspired, where we can basically talk. And what I always say is that however you feel in your mind, there is always somebody else that has either been through what you're feeling or understands it, and it is you know, and this is why you know I feel so sad knowing that you basically were questioning is it you and is it you know, and but it's it's natural. This is the problem, this is this is the thing that people don't talk about. It is natural, it is natural, and that's the bit that so many people block away and go, Well, let's just push it under the carpet.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Well, 100%, and I did for many years, and this is the thing, so you do for many years, uh, and believe me, I'm still dealing with the ramifications of the self-worth worth piece today. Uh, you'll know in like relationships, huge mirrors, and undoing 13 years of of believing that, because I only started to to challenge the belief that it wasn't my fault at 22, you know. So I'm only 29 now, so it's like I had 13 years of believing it. So it still shows up in that sense. The the implications on the the other the other thing being sorry, the you know, that was uh an event which happened as the brain is forming. Oh yeah, you know, so so even that like the the idea of of of undoing some of that and getting to a place where you can let go of it, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Childhood trauma and it's massive, it's massive because that is the point where you're totally right between 7 and 11 is when you know it is so important and when everything forms, and that's how you believe the world is then, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

So, so exactly that, and I'll I you know I won't go too much into it, but there was I only started to see dad in a peaceful image in my mind after going through the hardest year of my life, or last year was the artist, the second hardest year of my life, um after therapy, was when I could picture him smiling. And prior to that, and I hope you don't mind me saying it would always be of the event, and and every moment, so every time I was on my own, you know, regardless of what had happened in the day as a young boy growing up. If I had a moment of silence, it would be that you have to think about how many thoughts that is, it's a lot every day because you have the same thoughts every day, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. And so changing those is ridiculously challenging, however, it's the most important journey to undertake. Yes, you have to slay the dragon. And and do you know what?

SPEAKER_01 12:32

Whilst I can't associate with um what you lost in terms of a life, I can associate, and the only way I can compare it, and I always can only compare it to how my brain works around addiction. And basically, within anybody who has addiction, you are called and you are spoken to in your brain multiple times a day, and it continues. I'm three and a half years clean, and these thoughts come into my brain, and it's I had one two days ago where it was going to me, you're okay now, you'll be okay, you can drink again, you can take drugs again now. Yeah, come on, you've shown everybody, and this is what it starts talking to you about in your brain, and it pecks away at you. And when you were describing the thoughts, then it's just exactly the same way, it's just pecking away at you, you know, pecking away, pecking away. Yeah, and I I can't control what thoughts or feelings I have. The only choice I've got is what I do with them and how I cope with them.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

The decision you make, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

The decision I make.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

But to get to that point, what does it take?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

It takes time, it takes work.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Oh, it's hard it's the hardest journey anyone would ever do that.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Do you know what it is, but but for anybody who hasn't been on that journey, what does the other side begin to look like?

SPEAKER_00 13:47

So this is the point. So this is it, isn't it? It's beautiful because you know, I had to relive the event, uh to go through it all. I went, you know, went through the drugs, failed the unit because of it, you know, went through four or five years of suicidal ideation myself, really, really heavy, really deep stuff. Um, and you know, it was through the journey of talking about it over and understanding it, which allowed me to get some peace around it and also ch understand the event and change my beliefs and and whatnot. And but that was really, really hard. And and uh and again, I'm still dealing with that now. Still every single day I have to fight to make sure, you know, I put the systems in place to be able to to do well, to thrive, to be in a state where you know I can control my own state. Um part of that because of business stress, but also because of of of yeah, the nature of just how I grew up and whatnot. But the the the thing is around that is what's the other alternative? The other alternative for me as a as a young man at 22 years old was to continue to take cocaine, to mask it and go out on the weekends, yeah, self-destruct, not speak about it, you know, take my anger out on people, like become distant with everyone around me, just let it get in the way of all the parts of my life which were super important until I probably would have ended up at the same spot as perhaps. Like that wasn't something for me that I was willing to do. And so, you know, the the beauty of the difficulty around the event, having seen what it did to a family, also gave like I could have never done it because I saw what it did to be. That's the vehicle effect, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

You know, and I I can speak openly with you and freely with you. So at the height of my addiction, I didn't care whether I was still here.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I literally did not care. And I've got an amazing son, I've got an amazing family, and literally my mum my mum was basically waiting for phone calls to say that she's 70 odd years old, and she was waiting for phone calls to say that that was it, is he's gone, and that is no way for somebody to be going to bed. And but I can say it didn't mean that I didn't love people at all, and it didn't mean that they didn't mean everything to me. It was all about I had no self-worth, I had no self-worth. Yeah, I'm gonna be able to do that. So I I could not believe in myself at the time. I didn't believe that I was worth anything to anybody, and you know, that is the that is the biggest reflection I can look back and go, I had zero value of myself and it was nothing I loved everybody just the same, but I had zero value of myself.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

Yeah, and the brain naturally, you know, that's kind of like, and it's interesting how my relationship with suicidal ideation and suicidal thoughts has changed um over kind of the past decade, because I still have them in times where things get you know pressures high naturally. So one in five people do. They're actually quite normal in terms of today's society, but now my my brain used to have it, oh god, that means this, and then it's this, and I would spite and I'd go down and I end up at you know, this thing kind of this this thought becoming a whole narrative and ended up at this bottom point. And now I'm feeling the somatic feelings in my body, I'm feeling all the sensations. Now I'm just like, oh, there's one Dan. What you're not giving yourself at the moment, how's you sleep? How's this? How's that? So my relationship with them has changed massively as a result, but it's the brain looking for a solution, isn't it? Okay, where what's the solution going to be? I've exhausted all avenues, I've tried this, I've tried this, I've tried this. Oh, it must be here. This is peace over here. And so it's the brain looking for a solution. Um, and so with that understanding, you know, of the brain is just trying to keep you safe. Yeah, just it's those sorts of things, isn't it? The brain just wants to keep you safe, wants to get rid of some of the pain. And I think the beauty of me being on a similar journey to perhaps and going to places that he would have been is there's been a level of like understanding and compassion to go, okay, I can understand now. Like I can understand it a little bit now, you know, and so there's a piece that's come along with it. But like I said now, I use it as a marker to go, sweet, well, how's your training, Dan? What you're not giving yourself, what's a conversation you're not at at the moment, or this, this, and this. Um, and use it as like a little, a little, little, little uh checkpoint. Yeah, yeah, to go, okay, yeah, look after yourself a bit more, Dan.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

But that comes, you know. With time. With time, and you know, with delving in and doing some work on yourself and being open to learning and developing. And I'll be honest, sitting here listening to you saying that you're on this new journey, that's the most exciting bit.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So, and again, this is wonderful, this is the most exciting part. So, again, I I reached the point last year my co-founder left in January. Uh, a lot of my corporate clients ended up dropping out when Donald Trump came in because well being was the first thing to go with US clients. Yeah, um, I was not like he's not used, does he? Yeah, let's be honest, well being is another no no no no no of anybody across the board, yeah, yeah. Wherever you are, yeah, yeah. Anyway, but um, and then I was investing into the drinks business, it was running at the same time. Uh, whilst my obviously the the deals that I'd expected were coming in didn't come in, and then um I had a really my first healthy relationship who I'm still with, my wonderful partner now Katie, who is amazing, but that's been so hard because all of these parts now have been huge mirrors. Yeah, so all of these things where I can say Dan, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, you need to work on these, mate, because you're spilling onto someone who doesn't deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Yeah, and and but as long as you the first point, the first part is recognizing it, yes, yeah. The second part is accepting it's gonna take a little bit of work, and you're not gonna get it perfect, of course not.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

No, and there's a brilliant analogy which I heard, and I don't remember the gentleman's name, but he's on Chris Chris Chris Williamson's podcast, uh, and he said he spoke about learning a language. He said, Look, if I said to you, Alex, I'm learning Italian at the moment, yeah, and then we meet again in three months, I'm I'm fucking not fluent yet, mate. You'd say to me, Dan, listen, it's gonna be time. It's gonna take time, yeah. And this is the same, which people don't understand with when it comes to the the behavior element of wanting to change the self. Acknowledging and realizing is really easy and simple because we know what we want to change within ourselves, but in order for your body to catch up, in order for you to create the new neural pathways in your brain, so that becomes behavior, in order for the feelings, you know, to to uh and and the emotions to uh be kind of this new narrative that you want to craft or whatever it is, and to not have that heaviness uh attached to some of the you know some of the things you're trying to change, is like learning Italian. It's like learning a new language. And so there's there needs to be a huge, you know, a huge uh degree of grace that comes along with it, which is why I said at the start to you, I'm about 40% into my journey. Yeah, I'm about 40% fluent at the moment. Yeah, I can see but some things changing. The beautiful thing now is I know because the moment moment the momentum is picking up. I can I understand uh you know different words in Italian which can I can fill in different sentences with now. I can say a paragraph and I can use this here, and you know, I know these, you know, these this thing here.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

You're learning, you're learning the new language who you are and what you need and how best to give yourself that. And probably because I've had I had no idea who I was genuinely. I've spent all my life looking after everyone else, doing everything for everyone else, and trying to make everyone else happy, and I didn't know what made me happy. And you are on that journey where you are learning how to get the best version of yourself, yep, what you need to get that best version of yourself, and to continue to work on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

Exactly, exactly. And part of that came letting go of dad and the story that I told. And honestly, I was hesitant and I am hesitant now, not hesitant, but there's part of me that when I come and and speak in such a way, uh, it's why I started with the positive things in my childhood because those things are all true. And what happened is I got so good at talking about dad in every talk, every every call, every sales meeting I come on. Daniel, who are you? Let me just tell you a bit about who I am. I lost my dad. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not losing my dad to suicide. That isn't who Daniel is. No, but I would speak about it, you know, as if it was, and I would place it the channel four stuff. Dad was at the heart of everything. So, and it's been amazing because in that journey from 22 going through therapy, you know, to then making it my job to talk about these things so other people could could do the same and create change in their own life. And and and don't get me wrong, it wasn't sad. I was empowered by it. It was amazing. You know, I was having people come up to me. I've never heard someone speak like this. This is the best talk I've ever heard. Like, I want to thank you so much. Kids who've, you know, I've saved their lives as a result. I still speak to you now. Men who, big men who've waited till everyone's cleared the room and sat down for me, and we spoke for an hour, and then I've said, okay, well, I'm gonna negotiate with you now, I'm gonna speak to you for a couple of weeks, and these are gonna be what we're gonna set. You're gonna go to therapy, you're gonna walk there because you want to lose some weight at the moment, and then they'll do the change. And I'm like, like, it's been amazing. However, I reached a point last year on my own evolution where I realized that that having that at the heart of everything that I did was no longer what I needed. Yeah, reason being, I became conscious of every time I'm saying that, what am I keeping myself? I'm keeping myself in the event. Yeah, the beliefs that come from it, and also the narratives.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Also, all you were doing was looking after everyone else. 100%. You never were looking after yourself, true, yeah, it's true. You know, you knew it weren't, and and to be fair, not fully, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

There's an element of it which was because it was it was giving me peace around some of those things as well, and I was seeing massive change, however, fundamentally, no, yeah, and and to be fair, listen, it doesn't need to be part of your story anymore.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Yeah, yeah, it doesn't need it's it was a chapter in the Daniel story, yeah, yeah, yeah. And now you're moving into a new chapter.

SPEAKER_00 23:45

Wonderful. And I know dad's probably thinking, Thank fuck for that. It was that going, it's about time that's about time if people didn't know I need to know in the first place. Come on, bloody are you you put me there. I didn't put myself there, that's what he's saying. But he works through me with everything that he does, and and and and I believe that he has given these these questions of reflection to me because he he knows what he wants to see me be. Oh, yeah, and so I know he wants me to shift into this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he would always want the best for you. 100%. And so this is beautiful now. So I'm at a point where I'm like, okay, well, let me actually fully commit to changing language, to, you know, speaking more positively about my past and all the beautiful things that happened as well, and not just focusing on what went wrong. Let me make a conscious effort. Every time I brained out something or you know tells me that I'm not not worthy of love or this, this and this, which I'm still dealing through, I have to sit there and I kind of create a new narrative. I've gone back into I've I've done some work where I've gone back into the actual memories and the moments where I blamed myself for perhaps because there was some stuff happened around around the event which you know I would really blame myself for. Mate, can I just can I just stop you?

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Look in my eyes, absolutely none of it is a few years. Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. None of it was your fault. I promise you, none of it was your fault. I appreciate that, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, and like I know that from the bottom of my heart.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

There's still a there's still that a slight under the surface. I know that. I had an interesting moment with um a therapist actually, where it was like, Have you ever seen Goodwill Hunting? And he's like, It's not your fault, it's not your fault. And it was funny because he's seen it's not your fault, and I'm crying my eyes out, and I'm like, You've therefore seen the film. Yeah, I feel like I'm in a movie anyway.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

But um, but um I I know, yeah, I know, you know, and honestly, yeah, listen, and you're inspiring, mate. You're inspiring because let's be honest, right? One, how many people openly speak about it? But two, how many people then come and go, actually, I need to work on myself. I need to work on myself, I need to reassess. I need to basically reset. Because what you're doing is you're giving anybody and everybody the inspiration to go, well, if you haven't got things quite right, start again and have a look at yourself.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

And reset exactly. And go again, and you can you can do that every do you know what? At the moment, I I have to do that probably every two, three weeks, and that's okay. Yeah, I'm resetting and bringing myself back to those behaviours that are future, Daniel, because they're not fully realized yet. So I have to reset every two, three weeks at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Mate, if I reset every morning, no, genuinely I do. Yeah, I'm like work or whatever. Yeah, well, I'm just like that. I'm just literally, I have like a 10-minute thing every single day where I reflect on is there anything I could have done better today? Is there anything that was I really funny with anybody? Did I have any thoughts? Why am I having that thought?

SPEAKER_00 26:41

Um yeah, and to summarise this point, like exactly what I'm talking about is like, you know, this journey of of crafting the new, it never ends, you know. But the the thing is, you have to be your authentic self. I could have for the next five years, continue to start to say the public speaking talks in the way that I've done 400 times. Everyone says it's the best thing they've ever seen. Every company, you know, the best speaker we've had, continue doing this the services that I'm doing with the focus that they have, and I could avoid listening to what's happening within the self as a result of you know of staying comfy in what I know works. I had to let go of every single bit of it and go through eight months of uncertainty, which was the hardest year of my life, in order to trust that what would come would be more aligned. And you know what's happening now? It's all coming together, it's coming together in a way I couldn't couldn't have imagined it before. And what's opened up and how I'm seeing the future now and how close I feel, because I'm about a month or two months away from a lot of these things being realized, has given me all the things that I've been working to trying to get the the the love for the self, you know, everything's coming back, the confidence I'm getting my chat back, you know. I've got that confidence in my future again, and and I'm my energy's in such a better place, my state's in a better place. Yes, I'm having very difficult days, but I I I know and I can see the progression over time, exactly. And and now I'm coming out the other end, and that's beautiful because I'd lost the hope in my ability to be able to do it. I didn't know if I could change, and I and I and it's beautiful because I can sit here and I can say the brain, my brain can change whenever I want it to be able to do so. And it's it's you know, it's it's more learning every time, and that's a blessing, man. But it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Listen, anything that's truly worthwhile might not be easy at times.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

It's probably always gonna be an idea, they're always gonna be difficult. I don't think any of it comes easy, does it?

SPEAKER_01 28:28

Well it doesn't, but ultimately at the end of the day, I think you're an inspiration and also you're speaking openly and you're actually allowing people the vulnerability to be real instead of going just because I've done this, I'm okay now. Well, actually, I might need to take a step back. Actually, I might need to think about do I need to look after myself more? Actually, I might not have everything perfect in my life, and that's okay. That's okay. It's good that you're recognising it, it's good that you're doing something about it. And basically, anybody and everybody can do something, can change, you know, can do something positive, and it just takes small one step at a time. So, mate, you should be very proud of yourself. I'm looking forward to speaking shortly about what's to come, what the future holds. But first and foremost, a massive thanks. Pleasure value.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Pleasure, pleasure, pleasure. Thank you.