Navigating Adult Friendships: Insights, Challenges, and Strategies

In this episode of the Clinical Tea Podcast, Heather and Chelsea explore the nuanced world of adult friendships—what sustains them, what challenges arise, and how personal growth influences these relationships. Whether you're feeling lonely or just looking to deepen existing bonds, this conversation offers valuable perspectives for thriving socially as adults.

Main topics covered:

• How life transitions impact adult friendships and feelings of belonging
• The role of proximity, timing, and effort in building and maintaining friendships
• How expectations, boundaries, and vulnerability influence relationship quality
• The importance of therapy, self-awareness, and intentionality in relationships
• Practical tips: using apps, shared activities, and community resources
• The social dynamics of moving, parenthood, and life phases
• The influence of shared experiences and common interests on lasting bonds
• Understanding and respecting individual energy levels and social capacities

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

And that has been the major theme of the last six years for me is equality. Who lifts me up when I, you know, you know, or who tears me down? Who can stand beside me when I'm at my worst and cheerlead me when I'm at my best?

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to the Clinical Tea Podcast, your monthly cup of news, pop culture, and mental health through a clinical lens. With your hosts, Chelsea McCarty and Heather McPall, licensed professional counselors. Grab your mug and settle in. It's time for the tea.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Welcome back to the Clinical Tea Podcast. Uh, today Chelsea has picked the topic, and it is on adult friendships. And so I'm actually really interested in this because I was curious if this is a topic that Chelsea, you see in the therapy room. Um, or is this a topic that has come up for you personally or both? Like, how did you what made you want to bring up this particular topic?

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, it's something that I often, so it's interesting because I often see it in the therapy room, in that as I mentioned before, a lot of my clients are women in their 30s and 40s. So there's like a lot of transition going on there. So of women trying to find their people, especially when there's family of origin issues, like where do I find my community, my village? And so I thought this was an interesting topic for that reason, and because I think that I have like such a robust like group of friends, and like this is this is something I struggled with when I was young of finding my people, and now in my 30s, I feel like I am like just so blessed that I have my people. So there's kind of like this like I'm seeing it in the therapy room, but in real life, I'm like, this is an area where I feel like fulfilled, so it's a little bit of both.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Good. I hope you have some insights to share about that because I feel like it is a difficult uh thing for a lot of uh adults to find their people, and um especially as you get older, and um I see that a lot in the therapy room as well, especially with men. Um uh there's such a you know, I feel like the older I'm seeing that they are, the less they have hobbies that would introduce them to other people. And so I'm interested to hear what you have how like how have you managed to have such a big friend group into your 30s? Because I feel like at least for me, the older I get, the more picky I am about a bad thing though. No, uh well, but I and my theory is that like when we're little, like middle school, socialization is so important, yes, so important, and because of that, we tend to um develop relationships on surface level stuff, um, or you're just so happy to be part of something that we maybe don't connect on any anything of substance, values, things like that. As you get older, especially I'm learning like in your 40s, where you uh really know who you are now, it it makes sense that we would get pickier if about the company that we keep.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Absolutely. I and if you think about like human development, right? Like when, and this is a conversation that I often have with my adult clients in the room, is that through childhood, adolescence, even a little bit like early adulthood, like it just is natural and organic that you're around people that are your age and going through similar stages or similar interests, right? Like whether it's an activity and you've connected with that friend through there, or just somebody you've come in classes with and you've sat next to. So it's almost like we're we're given this idea about friendship that it's like simple, and then we, you know, become adults and we start to like dissipate, right? Like we all kind of maybe take different career paths, or we get in relationships, or we move away. And then it's like, how, how then do I find my people? It's been so simple. And what I often hear in the therapy room is people questioning, like, is it me? Like, what's wrong with me? Why do I feel like I can't connect with people? Why do I feel like I can't find my people? So it's so interesting and also like in alignment with what you're saying about being pickier, because I think that's absolutely true. Like, what we value, I think, in friendships in adulthood is much different than what we cared about or what we valued when we were kids. We probably like to your point, we probably weren't even really like aware of what we valued. It was just, you know, proximity to the people around us.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Superficial. Yeah. You like this band? I like this band. Um it is interesting for the people who have had relationships since then and kept up with that because I definitely have um one of my best friends from that time period. So we're looking at 30, 35 years. And so I also want to like pick your brain about what you think keeps those things together. Like, what are the ingredients for like a friendship?

SPEAKER_03 5:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

It's funny you say that because I feel like I have like the inverse, like my personal experience was inverse to what most people have. Like a lot of and like my I guess thing about like where do I fit was like I was seeing people who had like these long-standing friendships. Like you mentioned, like having a best friend. Like I don't have like that best friend from like we've been friends since kindergarten or childhood because I moved a ton when I was a kid. So although I like knew a lot of people and made friends easily, it was hard for me to like maintain friendships because I was never in one place. So that was often something I felt like I was missing in my life. But I do have one friend that I've been friends with since high school that is my best friend, but she feels like home to me. Like, and you may agree with this about adult friendships. Like, you're not like interacting or talking as often, right? Like you may go like days or weeks out talking to your friend, but like when you do, you pick it right back up. And that's what it feels like. Actually, the other day I was driving in the car and like two songs from like high school came and I like texted them to her, and like that was the feeling I had. It was like nostalgia and home. But then I also have these like excuse me, friendships that I've made in adulthood to like what you had asked, like, how did that happen? That like they are just as equally as important to me. Like, you know, people talk about when you like when you go into a relationship, like people carry baggage. And fortunately for me, my husband's baggage was like this amazing group of friends that like he had, and like I don't know how it works, but we all get along, and like over time, that has been like one of like the greatest gifts, is like now these people and some of these women are some of my best friends and like closest friends. So I feel so going back to like that version of me that feel like I that felt like I didn't fit because I never stayed in one place. Like now I feel like this is where I fit, like with this group.

SPEAKER_02 7:27

Yeah, yeah. I I think I've sort of picked up people all along the way um because I my life has been all over the place, right? In different countries and different um I do think it's hard when you relocate to start over and find some someone you know you can connect to. Um but I think one of the things that I that draws people together is some kind of um common experience or um shared experience. Like my best friend from the military. Um I I feel like we bonded because we went on a mission together, you know, we were on deployment together, and um, I always make the joke that nothing brings you closer together than staring down death together, but but um, but uh she is like it's one of those friendships where you have this common experience, it bonds you together, and then years can go by since I've seen her, and then you just pick up in this very comfortable, you don't have to be anybody other than who you are. So for me, I think there's a level of acceptance of who we are in all the phases and evolutions of our life that um is necessary to keep relationships and friendships going.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

And you know, you talking about your experience of moving around a lot, like through the military and in adulthood. Like I'm curious knowing that like right what we talked about growing up, it's just natural and it's there and it's easy access. Like, how have you managed that in adulthood? Like making friends, it's not good.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Actually, um in the last six years, I've been doing a lot of house cleaning, to be honest. Uh, because I think that I've come to a place where I know I have not no, I understand myself so much better that it started to make me reassess different relationships in my life that weren't very healthy. And um, and think about the effort that I put into the relationships that I have. I have struggled along the way to find new people, but I've also come to the conclusion right now that I don't really need any more friends. Like good.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

Well, honestly, quality over quantity as we get older.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Yes, it's you know quality. And that has been the major theme of the last six years for me is quality. Who lifts me up when I, you know, you know, or who tears me down? Who can stand beside me when I'm at my worst and cheerlead me when I'm at my best? Um, I've I I grew up with a critic in the house. I don't need my friends to be that, you know. Um, but I've collected people over the years that sort of uh played that narrative that I grew up with as a kid, and really seeing that and also seeing that and and needing to make changes as I grow and and understand my own self-worth, you know. But also just knowing my own nervous system too. Like I don't have a huge capacity for socialization like I did in my 20s. I'm tired. Yeah. You know, and I have friends that are all different now. So this one over here, she's very energetic, she likes to do a lot of stuff. Um, this one over here is fine to just be a homebody and whatever. So I also have to consider if I'm gonna hang out with this person or this person, like what does that require of me? Yeah. I love both of them, you know, these sort of examples that I have in my head, but like I have to also check where I'm at, you know, and see if I have the capacity for those people. And it has nothing to do with how I feel about them as a person.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Exactly. Like you can love them, feel connected to them, but what you receive in the relationship is different. And I think like that's so true. And like I talk to clients about this as well, like all people, right? But when we're talking about friends or people that are close to us, like serve different roles. Like, you know, maybe you have the a friend that you feel super vulnerable with, and like that's the person you confide in when you know shit's going down. And then maybe you have a friend that's like your relationship is really based off of fun, and when you need to be uplifted, you hang out with them. Like, I think that people provide different things in the relationship, but that idea of quality over quantity, I think is just so true in adulthood. Like, let's face it, like we're all busy, like so. If we're gonna make time for somebody, it we wanna feel like we're getting like getting something from that, right? Like you're gonna leave, you're gonna enjoy that interaction, you're gonna leave that interaction feeling feeling good. I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. But I love I love your vulnerability in the saying, like, I've been doing housekeeping, like even the ability to like acknowledge that a friendship may not serve itself, may have lived its life or may not, may not be healthy for you anymore, and like stepping out of that because I see that a lot with clients too, like almost like this feeling of guilt of like getting out of a bad friendship, different than like a bad romantic relationship.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

Well, it's almost similar in that I think the guilt comes from shared history.

SPEAKER_03 13:18

That's exactly what it is. I've known this person since fill in the blank. This person was there for me for fill in the blank.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah, yeah. It and and for me, that has not been a good experience having to say goodbye to certain people, but recognizing the pattern was just not healthy. And and I've done enough work on myself that I don't have any animosity towards these people that I've had to let go. I I wish I I truly wish them the best. It just us together were not, it was not good. And um, you know, I always say this about relationships too. You can be good people, just not good together. Sometimes the dynamic can be toxic. And you know, at this phase of my life, like I don't have time for that shit.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Just don't. I mean, it's well, yes, we don't have time for it, and we have a better sense of ourselves and like value for ourselves in adulthood that maybe we didn't have when we were kids to be able to say, like, I'm not putting my energy towards this, or I'm not Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

I think for a lot of people, the people-pleasing parts that they have get in the way. Uh, you know, whatever they learned about dynamics growing up can get in the way. And, you know, I think for me, there were just so many things I never saw at the time, or like you have this delayed processing. So, like, I didn't always catch the shitty things that people were saying to me or recognizing that they were shitty.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

There have been times where I've actually screenshotted conversations to a friend of mine who's also a therapist and saying, like, am I like tracking here? And they've said to me, Oh, I don't like the way that person's talking to you. And I was like, Okay, because like I'm I don't always pick up on that stuff, you know, and I think that really helped open my eyes to like, yeah, maybe I should start trusting my gut because if I have to ask, there's some kind of knowing, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

No, I I made the face because I was thinking, like, how many times as therapists are we sitting in the room and we're listening right to somebody's narrative, and us as the outsider can so clearly see that or be thinking a response like your friend gave you. And then you, Heather, are like questioning it or like unsure, or maybe like giving passes or reasons as to why this may be said, and like it makes sense because when you're emotionally invested in it, you're not seeing it for just what it is.

SPEAKER_02 15:54

I want to give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes much to our detriment, do we do that? You know?

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Yeah. It's so funny you said that I was you have like just like random thoughts when you're like getting ready or driving. So this morning I had this random thought about trust. And I was like, I think that I trust people until they give me a reason not to trust them. And then I thought, is that a safe way to operate? And then I was trying to think, like, have there been times where I've been burned by that? Oh, yeah, absolutely. But does that mean that I change that?

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Well, the thing is, like, how do you even gauge that? Because um, you know, for me, I don't always pick up on the social cues. So, like, where am I only picking up on the fact that that that I can't trust this person when it's like smacking me in the face? Yeah, yeah, like at one point.

SPEAKER_03 16:48

Sure, yeah. And that and I was thinking, like, so what would be the inverse? Like, what would be what would it look like for me to not like I wouldn't know how to operate if I were to change that and be like, I'm not gonna trust someone until they show me that they're trustworthy.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Well, that feels not healthy too, right? That doesn't feel healthy either.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Then we're just avoidant. But yeah, but like to your point, like yes, like any kind of relationship, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Like I think it's like Brene Brown like talking about how you know vulnerability is important for connection. And so you don't know until you're in it, you're not gonna know.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Yeah, so the risk is worth in the gut, like if you're like you draw something out of it, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Like it's almost like if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right, or like yeah, but a lot of people have trouble trusting that, especially like um uh, you know, people who have all kinds of reasons for second guessing and questioning. Is this and that's sort of the other thing that therapists write help with? Like, um, is this uh does it feel personal because it's stirring up your own shit, or is this person actually being an asshole? You know, it's hard, it's hard. But I was thinking, and this is sort of a tangent, but I was thinking, you know, you're a mom, right? And I always feel like it must be easier for parents to make connections because you have this person, right? And then you're like, hey, you have a person and I have a person, let's hang out. Um, and like you go to the same events and the sports and all that. Like, I just assume that's an easy way as an adult, but then if you don't have kids, then you're just kind of floating. It's like dating. What do you do? Find somebody at the grocery store and be like, hi, you want to be my friend?

SPEAKER_03 18:44

No, it's so all right. So it's so funny. And this is why I love doing this with you because you and I get along so well and we're so connected in so many ways, but like in some ways we're different, so I think it's so cool because I in choosing this, I'm like, I want to know how Heather makes friends because I know that you are not a mom, and you are absolutely correct. Like, I that that has been like such a buffer or like a way to like make friends is through my kids, and especially now my oldest is school age, so like now we're really in like being at school activities and sports and like things that you named. Yeah. Um, and so yes, that has made it easier. Um, it's funny. There's and like talking about the dating. Like, I always say that to my clients that like making friends in adulthood is like dating because like you, you, you come across somebody, right? Or even like in the mom realm, like you come across a mom, you're like, Oh, I could be friends with her, but it's like, you know, do I want to take it to a play date? Do I want to exchange numbers? Like, is she feeling the same way about me? So it's so funny. And last year was the first year um I was like involved in the school. Like my son was in um in like our district school, and I decided to be a room parent. And you know, there were two of us, we were working on some kind of project for something, and like typical me would be like, All right, you do this part and I'll do this part. And I was like, maybe I'm gonna do this differently. So, like, I asked the other room mom if she wanted to get together to work on the project, and it was so vulnerable for me. And Heather, it was one of the best decisions I've made recently. Like, she has become like such a good friend, and like talking about how you were saying, like, you know, finding other mom friends, like, although it is easier to find other people, being a mom, it is difficult to find like all of the elements. So, like you and the other parent get along, the kids get along, you parent the same way, your spouses get along. Like, yeah, so I'm glad you asked me that because I wanted to talk about vulnerability because I think that that's like a thing so many of us are afraid of. But like, if we don't take the step, if we don't take the risk, we may miss out on something really great.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah, yeah. And I guess I didn't really answer your question before about how I may miss out. Yes, we can circle back. Um well, one thing that I have done and I also suggest to some of my clients is they have apps for that. Like, yes, um, when I first moved to New Jersey, because I'm not even from here, I'm originally from New York, but I lived in North Carolina, and then I lived, you know, overseas for four years. So when I came to um New Jersey, I was like, man, I I gotta get out of the house. Like, I gotta meet my people. Um and one of the things I did, there was a website called girlfriendsocial.com, and it was for um women to meet, for relocators and you know, people to meet um new friends. And now uh they have bumble BFF, which I've occasionally gone back on. Um, I went a couple years ago, I went on to try to see if I could find somebody who was local that wanted to run with me. Because um that's kind of a lonely situation sometimes. I'm gonna find anybody um who wanted to do the same thing I did, but that's fine. But it is kind of a cool research, and it is just like dating. You make a profile, you're swiping on people. It's weird.

SPEAKER_03 22:15

Now, does it like draw you? So that example of like you were looking for somebody to run with. Like, because right, dating is pretty simple. Like we know what people are looking for when they're dating, right? But when you're making friends, like did it pull is the algorithm that it pulls people that have similar interests, or or it's really just like you're seeing people in your area, your age group.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

You put in what you're looking for, and it kind of gives you stuff. The problem I kept running into was it kept giving me all these Philly people. And I'm like, I'm not, I'm sorry, guys, I'm not going over the bridge. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

I just want someone local. Things Heather's not doing in adulthood. I'm not going to be able to do that. Managing toxic relationships and going over the bridge.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

There's a longer list than that. But um, but yeah, um, you know, someone with a someone driving distance, we can go meet up at a park. Simple. You wanted it to be simple. But even before that, you know, just other people to sort of expand my social circle. Um, and you know, just like dating, it's you get some people you don't like match with you like them, they don't like you, you don't like them, they also don't like you. Like it's it's it's quite a weird, it's quite a weird experience. Um but yeah, but I actually have two friends that I've met off apps that I'm still friends with to this day. One was in my wedding, even. Wow, okay. Yeah, she actually I haven't seen her in a while because this is another thing. When life phases change, people tend to fall out. And like she had a baby and um a couple years back, and so it's been hard to coordinate time. Um, and that's hard for the child-free people because not like, oh, let's bring our kids together. Um, and it's not that I don't want to hang out around her kids, like I don't have a problem with kids at all. Um, but it it's you know, a time thing, right? And as the kids get older, they have more activities and kid and parents get very busy, so it's hard to it's easy to lose touch, and that kind of sucks, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:32

You know, you are like really just setting me up so well today because you're welcome. Because there's like this, okay. So, are you a Mel Robbins fan? Let me start with that. No, I know, I so read that. What about my personality? My tell you that all right. So Mel Robbins talks about friendships, and for those of you who don't know, Mel Robbins is like a speaker, she often takes information um from therapists, from research, things like that, and kind of like digests it for the general population, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

That's that's a very polite way of I like Mel.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

But okay. So she talks about friendship, and she says that a research shows that there are like three pillars of friendship or like three things that are the recipe for friendship, which maybe you will agree or disagree with us, but I'm curious what you think. So they're proximity. So that idea of like close by, so even you joking about like I'm not going over the bridge, like, yeah, if it's simple or it's not easy, it's not like gonna happen frequently, right? So like physical proximity, and again, why it makes it easier for us when we're growing up to have and maintain friendships. Timing is the second one. So the example you just gave of your friend, like she moved into motherhood, like it kind of changed things. It's like timing, not in the sense of having time, but timing of like what are you doing in this stage of your life? So, even the example that I gave about like now I have school-age kids, like those are now probably gonna be my primary relationships for the next handful of years, right? Because the proximity, the timing. And then the last one is energy. So essentially, like effort, like what kind of effort do I want to put into this? Which we know no matter what you got going on as an adult, like again, we are all busy, we all have things going on. So, like, do I want to put time and attention into this?

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:32

What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Yeah, let me go through. Speak the male out of it. Proximity.

SPEAKER_03 26:40

Yeah, I'm curious for you what you think of that.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Yeah, well, because I have three best friends, right? And my military best friend lives in Illinois. I have my childhood best friend that lives in New York, and my New Jersey best friend lives in the next county. So while it's, I don't know, a 25-minute drive, it's still something that doesn't happen very often, maybe once a month. Maybe we try to get together physically. But I talk to her all day.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

You know what I mean? Um, on Messenger or whatever. So the other thing I was thinking of is like for people on the autistic spectrum, proximity means something different, I feel like, because a lot of autistic people, and I don't want to speak for everyone, but because of the sensory overload and overstimulation, socialization takes a lot of energy. And so, and this sort of correlates with the energy piece too, is like um it may look different for a neurotypical person because maybe they need more out of that relationship in those categories. But for an autistic person, we might be okay with not seeing people all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

You know? Um, or like my one friend, um, very high energy, like she's always going to concerts and stuff. And I have to tell her, like, we want to hang out, like, we're probably gonna watch a crime documentary or something. Like, I can't, I don't have that kind of first of all, over 40, I don't have that kind of energy anymore. I'm not sleeping, you know what I mean? So, like, we gotta do something more lower key, and so she knows that, right? And so, like, if we're gonna hang out, she knows that we have to bring it down a notch. Um, and she's cool with that, which is awesome because I can't meet her, I just can't meet her where she's at a lot of the time. And she's she's cool with that. So I think it's also just accepting each other energetically where you are, and not asking for more from that person. And if you need more, like again, like you were saying in the beginning, like we might have to outsource those things to other people. Um, so I think it's about knowing yourself, knowing the other person, sort of establishing maybe ground rules for relationship. But I don't necessarily think that some of those things are across the board the same for everyone. Yeah, you know? And sometimes that's okay, and sometimes it's not.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

Yeah. Well, and that's how you decide about the relationship, right? Like just like any other relationship, um, when you get multiple people involved, there's becomes norms, right? So it sounds like your norm with this particular friend is they know that you're not gonna be going to the concerts with them, but when you hang out, that it's gonna be something chiller and they're accepting of that.

SPEAKER_02 29:41

Yeah, because it's still something that we have in common.

SPEAKER_03 29:44

That you have in common. We love murder.

unknown 29:46

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

That's another episode. I was gonna say that is another episode. We're gonna get to that one.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

That'll be next, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

Yeah, maybe. Um but no, I appreciate your what? What was the second pillar? The second pillar is timing, so like stage of life. Yeah. Yeah. Like what you got going on in your life, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

It's hard for a child-free person. Um I mean, there's more of us now than there ever have been. Yeah. But like a lot of my friends have kids, and I have no problem with that, but it does, you know, constrict how much I see them. And and of course it would. Of course it would. And I don't I think it's, you know, I I think it's similar in the dating thing. Like, I have some clients that are going through the dating thing and they keep questioning, like, do I really want to date someone who has children? Because like they're gonna take up a lot of their time. So you really have to go into that knowing how that's gonna affect the relationship. And if you're okay with it, then school. And if you're not, then they're not for you, you know?

SPEAKER_03 30:54

Yeah. No, I'm glad you brought that in because the timing thing I found makes sense for let's say like the gen pop, right? But then you bring in something like, okay, well, if you're not going to that, you know, typical next stage of like, okay, now I have my career, now I'm in my relationship, now I'm having children. If you're not doing those things, what does your timing look like? You know, and how does that affect relationships?

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yeah. Yeah, it's easier for me because I'm like, all right, I gotta go let the dogs out. Yeah, like that's my only or I gotta go to bed. It's one of the two, you know. Um, but I'm also not the kind of person that stays up late anyway. So, you know, I don't know. I also think it's hard as a as a therapist because like we might see people until nighttime. Our job can be emotionally and psychologically taxing. I'm not doing shit after work. I'm not hanging out.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

You know, you see these people are like, oh, you want to go for a happy hour? No, I don't.

unknown 32:08

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

No, I don't I don't want to talk to anybody after that. Like, I gotta go home and process my own shit, but I'm just a curmudgeon, I feel like, you know? A perimenopausal curmudgeon.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

No, I feel that way too. There's a particular day of the week that is just like a heavier day for me. And I come home and I don't want to talk to anybody. I don't want to do, I don't want to do anything. I want to couch rod.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah. I don't even listen to music with words when I leave work, you know? Like the music, period. Too much words.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

No, no more words. Silence. Um, but then so there's also how do I want to say this? I also hear clients talk about or or label themselves because of this energy piece, right? Like this energy level, like, oh, I must be an introvert or oh, I must be an extrovert. And I don't know that I subscribe to that. Like I believe that there are introverts and extroverts, but I think it goes back to like looking at yourself as a whole person and looking at the other person. Like if somebody is going to be emotionally draining, does that mean that you're an introvert? Because if you connect to other people, you know, kind of like what we were saying about like what you get from different relationships.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah. I think it comes down to your nervous system and really being aware of what your own gas tank looks like and what it can handle. You know, um, I can't be in relationships with someone who's going to take way more than they give. And not that it's 50-50. Any relationship. It's not it's that's a ridiculous expectation that it would be 50-50 all the time. But what I always say is the pendulum should swing in the other direction eventually. Um, and this brings up a good point. Like one of my caveats for being a friend of mine and being in my social circle, you ready for this? Yeah. I didn't find the contract, but you have to be in therapy. You have to be in therapy? You have to be in therapy. I do not have friends that aren't in therapy. What about the thing? I cannot handle it. Because two things end up happening, and I think a lot of therapists can agree with this. You either become their fucking therapist, which no, no, thank you. No. Um, or it like a lot of times it becomes emotionally taxing because you're watching this person who is struggling and not doing anything about it. And I can't handle that shit.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Like, do you have them sign a contract? Like you will be in therapy if you are friends with.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

No, it's just a lot of my friends do.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

And when I have seen my friends struggle in the past, I've said, you know, what would be good for this? Therapy. And they've done that, they've just done it. So, like, I know that must sound fucked up to some people.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

No, I'm like processing it because well, finish your thought and then I'll it's too hard.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

It's too hard when people have no self-awareness of how they show up in relationship, and I don't want to have to teach you that. You know what I mean? That's not my job. Because I've definitely had relationships where people used me like house almost to take care of them. Yeah. And it doesn't feel good. I'm not your mommy, I'm not your therapist, you know. I I don't want to play that role. So you need to go do something about your stuff. And everybody's got stuff. Everybody. I just want a certain like I almost said caliber of person. That sounds fucking terrible. But I I want people in my life that are working on growing because they they want to be healthier people.

SPEAKER_03 36:00

Yes. And that was one of the directions I so I had two different paths here that like the more you talk, the more insight I got on that. Like, one path was like, you know, like, is this something that like people are attracted to in you? But then that speaks to it sounds like maybe past Heather, because you talked about like house cleaning. Yeah. But the the first thought that I had, and probably what's more in alignment now, is like you're jokingly saying you have to be in therapy, but like, wouldn't that be a commonality? Like, wouldn't you then begin to like if somebody values therapy and is in therapy or values working on themselves, wouldn't that then be something that like would gravitate, like maybe not outwardly, but how people are often feel connected to people that they feel are similar to them, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Well, I think the more you grow, the more you put out a different frequency.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Exactly. So that like most of your friends are probably in therapy because they value that, they value like personal growth, they value understanding themselves, and so do you, you know.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

But the research is actually showing. They did a research study a while back on Bumble, the dating app, and how um something like 80% of people on there wanted to know that the person that they're swiping on is in therapy. Really? Yes, it's becoming a trend because, first of all, in that respect, no one wants to be the mommy. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, nobody wants to feel responsible or be put in a position where this person doesn't understand how relationships work, you know? That might be harsh.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

No, no, no, no. No, I um I don't want to digress, but I have like a thought or question about that. Like, I wonder what the age group was.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

I don't know. That's well, what's the demographic that's really on these apps anyway? Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Well, that's what I was thinking, like, right? Because maybe even some people like in our age brackets, certainly older, are not as open to therapy. So that I think that was my reaction, right? My reaction is no, I happily should I train myself. Yeah, and so it and I find that m younger people are more accepting or more willing, wanting to work on their stuff. You know? Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yeah. I think you know, what really helps a lasting relationship are just really two things to me. My two pillars, okay.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yeah, what are Heather's pillars?

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Acceptance and flexibility. You know, you have to accept um someone for who they are and also be flexible that that can change. And if that if that's in alignment with you know a healthy progression, I would say, then it's good. You know, then it then it works.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, I don't know. No, I would agree with those. I I totally I actually totally agree with that because right, like acceptance is accepting somebody when we talk about people, like that you may not like all elements of them, but you know that that's them. And I think in any relationship, once you get to that, you can move freer in that relationship. Now the uniqueness or the privilege of friendships is like these are people that we choose, right? So, you know, family is like a whole other animal, but like that's like where we come from, right? But like we have this privilege with friendships where we can choose who we want to surround ourselves with. And I think flexibility is true too. Like, again, like talking to clients, like often personalizing the um responses or feedback from other people, right? Like, I haven't I'm making some of this up, but like generally, like I haven't seen this person or I'm the initiator, or you know, they must not want to hang out with me because the last two times they said no. Like, I think that flexibility too of like people have different stuff going on at different times in their lives, and we're not always attuned to that. So it's not personal. Like, keep trying, like keep putting well, keep acting, you know.

SPEAKER_02 40:11

Right? Healthy communication is important. Um, because we don't know, we think we know, we don't know what's going on on the other side. I think vulnerability is an important factor in a for sure, to be able to communicate in the first place, but I also think that oh crap, I lost my train of thought. Sorry. No, it was me. Brain's too fast for the mouth.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

I mentioned family.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

No, it was after that.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

Um flexibility, keep putting yourself out there, don't take it personal.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Uh um something about flexibility. Oh, we still need boundaries, too, right? So, and I think people struggle with the idea that you can love someone and still have boundaries, you know. And I think that's important. And somebody who really loves you and accepts you for who you are will be okay with that. You know, you don't have to like it, you just have to respect it. Exactly. And so I think the people who have lasted the test of time in my world are, you know, willing to look at themselves, also willing to have comp difficult conversations, and people that I've bonded with for a variety of different things, you know? And they can have different walks of life and they can have different phases, and that's okay too. But it's just like marriage, it takes work, it's work to keep it going. But both people have to want to do the work.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

If you were to give advice to someone, Heather, about making friendships in adulthood, what do you think? You mentioned your pillars, but what do you what any is there any additional advice you would give somebody?

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Go to therapy. That's always my answer to everything, but um, it's never too late to try, you know. There's there's definitely the apps out there. There's also meetup where you just go to a place or it's all around a particular um uh activity, and so you might meet people you actually like through doing those things, and so that's kind of cool as well. And there's all kinds of resources to meet new people, even just like functions, craft fairs, like things that are going on in the community, or trying to find your people through um causes that you care about is helpful, you know.

SPEAKER_03 42:48

Yeah, and what's been successful in maintaining your friendships? Like when you talk about like your friend from the military or the other friend that you mentioned, like that, even though you know she became a mom, you're still friend, like some of these longer term relationships.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

Yeah, I think with my battle buddy from the military, we try to see each other each other at least once a year, although it we went two years last time, um, just because of I don't know, life. Um, so again, flexibility in those things. Um I think just reaching out, sending a text, hey, what's going on? You know, how you doing? Even if we don't meet up, just trying to keep communication lines open. Yeah. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:33

Yeah, that's important too. And I think it's something that we like um don't capture as part of the picture. That connection and communication doesn't necessarily have to equal spending physical time together. Yeah. Like some of my, and I don't know about you, but some of the people I'm most connected to, like, I don't see often, but it's just like an ongoing conversation and a text message. And although I love to see them, like I'm grateful for that. too that that keeps us connected as well because you know as a mom it is hard for me to you know get out without my without my kids or like find that time and all of that so I'm grateful that you know some of my friendships you know can still exist even though I'm not seeing that person regularly.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

I think also you just made me think about like expectations when you're communicating like I know when I send my uh friend in New Jersey a text message and she has a kid I know that like I'm not like oh she better answer me right away. I get that she might be putting the kid to bed or something. And so I'm just kind of you know about her answering me. You just do when you do you know what I mean like I'm not like but like some people have to temper their yeah expectations around um you know because you don't know what someone's doing.

SPEAKER_03 44:54

You know you either like you're you and I we're like we're seeing clients for a long period of time. I don't know about you but like I'm like that is far from me.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I'm answering texts in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Well that's what I mean like I yeah I have my work do not disturb the answering text my friends like when do you answer me? I'm like while I'm peeing.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Yeah and you know my friends know like after nine o'clock my phone goes on DD so good luck.

SPEAKER_03 45:20

Like I'm not answering I'm in bed.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

But again that idea of acceptance like I will sometimes receive text messages and like hey I know you're working right now or hey I know you're in session you don't need to answer this right now but here's the thing you know and I appreciate that on it because you should just we just know yeah it's happening or like people apologizing to me for not responding like you never have to apologize to me for not responding like to me a text message is just like one ongoing conversation like you pick it up you put it down yeah yeah um and like nowadays you can see if somebody read it usually um but um yeah I don't expect people to get back to me super quick but like eventually you know yeah exactly yeah so I think that's important in the flexibility category or pillar whatever you want to call it that like you know our friends are not on call 247.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Yeah they're just not yeah and with texting we have like more access to people so we also need to respect that boundary you know yeah yeah yeah I think like um I guess this would fall under the energy category but I something that I have found successful in maintaining my friendships is like like I just said like a lot of my friendships live in in group messages and like I'm cool with that and I think there's also like um with a couple of like my groups of friends there's like an anchor so like meaning that like I have a couple of friends that you know we exercise together. So that's the anchor right like that we're trying to take classes together. So we're sharing of schedules and like that's kind of what what gets us physically together. Yeah. I have my book club friends that we we do that. You know like these things that like our common interests that maybe brought us together or we found were common and kind of anchor or hold us accountable for like getting together. Like almost like a reason to get together. Yeah yeah or prioritize that time.

SPEAKER_02 47:17

Yeah I can't say I have those kind of things currently you were in a book club for a minute weren't you yeah I was um a while ago um but I stopped going to that it wasn't I don't know I so again it's about trusting nervous system like if I start dreading something's coming I'm like why am I doing this yeah it's voluntarily am I putting myself through this um but yeah I guess I have different sorts of friends like I have the friend that I talk to all day long about stupid shit. Um I have crime friend I have my true crime friend dude when there's a new thing we're texting about it you want to watch this together um and uh and then I have like um you know we just have different categories for different things that we're interested in and I guess that's what could that's our anchor is our the common interests yeah the common interest yeah that again maybe brought you together or you discovered you had this common interest that you were both like passionate about yeah and like we don't have to have all the things people think I think people think this about like finding a a partner too of like you should have things in common and yes and no like not everything because then you'd it'd be super boring like you should have some variety and I like that I have this friend who does this and that friend that does that and um because just like in modern love you're never gonna find someone to fulfill all of those roles it's ridiculous. Yeah you know it's it's too high of an expectation that's too much pressure on one person.

SPEAKER_03 49:09

Absolutely yeah yeah and I think like romantic relationship friendship whatever it may be I think there's something fun about having differences because you may discover that that's something that you appreciate about that person or maybe even something that it becomes an interest or something you want like a goal for you you know introduces you into something different.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Yeah yeah for sure yeah I love what my friends teach me about things I don't know you know yeah this was a good conversation I think did we hit all of our points?

SPEAKER_03 49:45

I think so yeah yeah I I got my list crossed off I think I think I did as well cool I think like again the flexibility like driving it home like what makes it successful like what's the secret sauce like rolling with the punches rolling with the punches flexibility acceptance vulnerability I think vulnerability is probably my top one because maybe we should like write our own fucking book.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Yeah there we go these pillars yeah I'll put that in the show notes yeah but just take the risk ask the person for their number go to the class yeah you never know what you're gonna find you don't I mean I because I there is this disconnect now that technology is such a part of our lives and so there are other people looking for you too yeah so true yeah yeah yeah and some of the best relationships may be ahead of us not behind us too I don't know that was kind of cheesy I like it I like it but it was a little cheesy I can bring the cheese that could be my role in this I'm the curmudgeon and you're the cheesy sunshine yeah yeah all right guys thanks for joining us today and listening to the teen if you liked the episode then subscriber follower whatever you do on here and we'll see you next time see you next session