Ep. 2 - There and Back Again with Jeni Cash

Join host Justin Tyler as he reconnects with longtime friend Jeni Cash, who shares her nine-year journey living in Wales. They discuss the challenges and surprises of adapting to Welsh culture, handling significant life changes, and the eye-opening differences between American and Welsh communities, including universal healthcare and food. Jeni opens up about her personal growth, spirituality, and the decision to return to the U.S. after a life abroad. Discover how Jeni navigated identity, community, and belonging across two very different cultures.

About the Guest:

Jeni Cash spent nine years living in Wales, becoming a part of the community and the local National Health Service (NHS). Her journey abroad was sparked by an adventurous move prompted by her past relationship, leading her to explore new cultures and broaden her perspectives. With deep ties to music and artistic expression, Jeni's journey has been fueled by her dedication to finding authentic community connections and exploring diverse experiences.

Key Takeaways:

• Jeni Cash moved to Wales for nine years, where she experienced cultural differences, personal growth, and the challenges of living abroad.
• The importance of stepping out of comfort zones to reinvent oneself and discover new perspectives on life and community.
• Jeni's insights on how universal healthcare and societal norms in Wales differ from those in the United States.
• The significant role of music in Jeni's life and how it helped her find community and solace in a foreign country.
• A personal narrative of adapting and thriving despite the challenges of major life changes and the excitement of potential new beginnings back in Wales.

Notable Quotes:

• "Being separated from all of my comforts was the comfort because you get to evolve into who you actually are without these expectations."
• "I wasn't huge into snack foods at the time. I had a harder time leaving the snacks in Wales when I came back to America."
• "You get to see more of the world and become a more empathetic person if you're doing it right."

Don't miss this enlightening episode of the Refill Podcast, where Justin Tyler and Jeni Cash explore the profound impacts of life abroad, the surprises of cultural immersion, and the exhilarating prospects of new beginnings.

Thanks for listening to Refill! Conversations for when life runs low. If this episode resonated with you, follow the show and share it with someone who might need it. Connect, send thoughts, or suggest future guests at jntyler19@gmail.com or IG: jntyler. New episodes coming soon.

Transcript

0:00

Funny story, I've actually never been out of the country before. Um, and I I this this episode I'm really excited about because um I I'm here with an old friend of mine, Jenny Cash, who's actually moved abroad outside of the country, um, and had to kind of like just adapt to to lifestyle and and all of the cultural changes and all of this uh in another country. And not only that, but after spending a significant amount of time in another country, she moved back and had to kind of readjust. And it's gonna be, I'm so excited to get into this conversation. This is Justin Tyler. Welcome to the Refill Podcast There you go, you got the hang of it. That was the the musical prowess of Jenny playing the kazoo uh as we were doing our our musical intro. Um, I'm gonna step back for just a second. Like, Jenny, could you please give me a little bit about yourself? Uh tell the audience, like I I have known you um for what, like over 20 years now. Um, I think I I met you my sophomore year of high school, your junior year of high school, and we'll get into that here in just a second, but I want the audience to know a little bit about you. Uh Wiggity Wiggity, what's up, y'all? This is Jenny. You said you were gonna do that. I didn't believe you. I love to laugh, so that's one thing. Um, I am huge into music. I like experimenting with new things and meeting new people. As Jessin already said, I have traveled to the other side of the world. I lived there for nine years, and I used to work for their National Health Service. I did not know that about you. Like I knew that you were there. I didn't know that you worked for them. That's kind of a that's a big job to take on in another country, to like work for another country's government, essentially. It was great. I am really disappointed that we don't have universal health care over here because it's so beneficial to anyone, you know. I'm I'm sure that we're gonna get into plenty of things that you are uh disappointed that we don't have over in the States as this conversation goes on. Um, but yeah, like I said, I I I I I I want to share a little bit about like the first time uh you like I don't know that we actually met on this night, but the first time I ever saw you, um, I was invited to uh so you went to a high school that was about 20 minutes or so away from where where I was uh living. And uh I was invited to attend a production, a high school production of Little Shop of Horrors, uh, which just happened to feature you. That was my first time seeing you. Um, I think we might have hung out in a larger group sometime after that, uh, was the first time that we actually hung out. Um you you have always been like a very like uh kind of just like creative and and musical kind of soul. Um so I really appreciate that about you. Uh thank you for sharing your kazoo talents with us uh to kind of kick this thing off. But yeah, so Wales, you lived in Wales for nine years. Do you like could you tell me a little bit about um just kind of what led to to you uh kind of finding yourself in in this situation where you were across the world? Well, I had been dating someone who lived in Wales for about two years, like long distance, and we would travel back and forth to see each other, and then I went through um a pretty public traumatic experience. And uh because my friends couldn't deal with that with me, they just kind of abandoned me. And so my boyfriend at the time was just like, let's just get married and get you over here. Um, so that's what I did. I got married, I went over there. Would you, uh, for our our listeners, would you suggest taking that route? No, I wouldn't. I yeah. I mean, a lot of good things came from it for myself personally. The marriage was not it, it was not a good situation, but I'm glad that I went over there. I'm glad that I met the people that I did and had the experience that I did and working for the NHS was cool. And there were plenty of things to be grateful for, but I'm glad the marriage is over. So before we we get into uh kind of just some of the the cultural shock and changes that you experienced while living in Wales, like I would like to little know a little bit more about like what you know your life before um moving to Wales. Uh like you kind of already said like a little bit about yourself and like you like music and um and all of this, but like kind of like tell me a little bit about like what your life was like prior, like leading up to uh going to Wales. Um, so I was raised in a really religious family. Like everybody is involved in church ministry in some way. My mom was a pretty public religious figure in my area. Um, and she was wonderful. I think that if all Christians were like how she was, then I wouldn't have ever had a problem with the church. But um, I never fit. I never made sense. You know, I had a very strong moral compass, but there was some baggage that came from being raised in that way. Like, um, you know, the purity culture of it all, and basically being brought up to think that women not being sexual in any way is like the entirety of your worth. I just didn't fit. And especially after coming back to the United States at this time, uh politically, it's been interesting because I'm really seeing um more people waking up to the fact that, you know, the um Christian nationalism ideas of yeah, Jesus said that, but he didn't mean it. Like you don't actually have to love these immigrants, you don't actually have to show up for the sick and the poor, you know. Um it's really it's really been surprising and refreshing to see more people waking up to the fact that that's not true. Like if you're gonna claim Jesus is the center of your life, you know, you should be loving people the way that he did. And that's not what I see. So you grew up uh in this in this religious household. Um, did you one like one of the things like I and I don't know uh where you're at with that like religiously now in your life? I'm I'm assuming at the stage that you moved to Wales, probably it's still a little bit more in uh like involved in the church at that point. Yeah, I mean, um I'm I'm musical, I'm a singer, and my mom was was a worship pastor, and so I would I would probably go to four different churches a week to sing on a worship team because they didn't have anyone that could harmonize or whatever. And I liked to show up in that way, but it it was hard for me to find a church home because um the values didn't align, you know. I wasn't seeing people practicing what they were preaching and I don't mess with that. And there are a lot of people that have a problem with me because I'm very vocal about it. But it's coming from a place of uh of accountability in love. It's not I hate you, you're trash. It's hey, do you not see the inconsistencies here? How can you live in that cognitive dissonance? Would would you say that you found a lot of community uh in like kind of like that that that church, uh like like as far as like going and being involved in music? Like, did you make friends a lot that way? Uh, was that a a big part of like how you built your community? I know some people like that's a big thing for them. No, actually, no, definitely not. I I very much felt like an outsider. Like I was there because, you know, you're raised to feel like um you're born with certain gifts. Everybody has their own gifts. That was my gift, and that's how I was trying to help and trying to be loving to people. And it was hard to be in that environment because I I just didn't feel that uh other people had the same intention and the same motivation. Like it was a different thing. And so most of my sense of community came from the probably the community theater people that I would see that weren't, you know, church people, you know, they were theater people. It wasn't even, you know, friends from school. Because when I when I met you, it was because you were dating a friend of mine at the time from high school. And she's actually one of the few people that I still would say is my is my dear friend. She's lovely. Um, but primarily I just I would show up for people time and time again and like, you know, self-sacrifice to appease everyone else and make sure everyone else was good. And I got treated like garbage. I just got trampled. So all that to say, like a big, a big theme around this show is kind of uh, you know, coming, overcoming um like a major change in your life or a circumstance and kind of like just that that reinvention, that uh that opportunity of reinvention and rediscovery and kind of just making a new way for yourself. Um it's a big thing that I'm looking to talk about throughout this series. Um and they we're we're kind of getting into that right now. Um I the first question I like I would like to ask you about uh actually making the transition into Wales was I mean, did you did did you try uh did you try church in Wales? Like what was that like versus you know back home in the States? Like how how did was religion treated differently there? Like, I mean uh that that's probably like the biggest, like first like biggest cultural change that you experienced. Um, yeah, actually, um just down the road from me was this beautiful church called St. Michael's, very uh cathedral-esque, but they weren't Catholic, they were uh Church of Wales, as opposed to, you know, some people might have heard that of the Church of England. This was Church of Wales. And I showed up one day, and because not many people in the UK are very religious, you know, instantly the um the vicar, which you know, we would probably call them a pastor, but the vicar was a woman and she saw I was a new face, and she stayed after and she talked to me for two hours because she was like, Hey, who are you? What are you looking for? Why are you here? Why are you here? Yeah. And I was like, Well, I I came from America, you know, I grew up really religious, I've got a lot of questions. I've seen I'm seeing a lot of things that, you know, are harmful in the church. And I, you know, before I commit to going anywhere, I would like to speak to you and, you know, see where you guys stand on certain things. And we talked about homophobia and women's rights and, you know, the patriarchy and all kinds of stuff. And um, she sat there for two hours and talked through everything with me, and they very much aligned with myself in being um open and loving to people of all walks of life and not judging and you know, showing up in the community, um, not in a judgmental preachy way, but in a I'm here just because you need love and I've got love to give you. So um, so that was great, but I I didn't stay um a weekly attender, but I did speak to the vicar pretty frequently. And I I I've always been of the mindset that like I I'm not a religious person, but I've I've dipped my toes in and out, and I've you know, like I've been in relationships and had family who are religious people. Um, and it one thing that I I see is kind of important to them is like you like everyone worships in their own way. Like just because you do or don't go to to church every Sunday, like that doesn't mean that you aren't worshiping in in your own way. And it sounds like you were kind of able to, um, not even from a a like a spiritual perspective, but even just uh kind of like your own like morals and everything, you kind of like had these conversations with the vicar. Um that's a that's a fun word to say. Yeah but you you kind of like you found this, uh in a way, kind of started finding this community uh by just having these conversations with her uh outside of the actual attending of church. Yeah. I guess I would say uh did you find that being um kind of one of the one of the the comforts or or things like as you went over there that kind of like helped you feel at ease being in a in a foreign land, uh surrounded by people you don't know, by customs that you're not familiar with. Um was that was that one of the comforts that you found? Honestly, I think being separated from all of my comforts was the comfort. Oh that makes sense. Because um, you know, you go to a new place, all of the expectations that have been put on you by the people in your life, you know, they're not there. So you get to you get to evolve into who you actually are without these expectations and without these, you know, consequences from people who are just judging you for not being who they expect you to be. Um and I very much in my, you know, poor relationship at the time started pouring into myself and doing a lot of self-exploration and finding a spirituality that makes sense for me. So while I have left organized religion, I'm a deeply spiritual person and I've learned a lot and I feel very grounded and centered and connected in my own way. So it it sounds like you you're an odd duck and you you found comfort in not having that comfort, um, which is like that's a strange thing. Like that honestly, that scares the shit out of me. Um, one thing I would I would love to ask you is like in in that kind of buildup to moving to Wales, like once you had decided like that that's what you were gonna do and you were like kind of getting ready to go, like what is something that you were most excited about and what is something that you were terrified about moving to another country? I mean, obviously I was excited to like see the landscape. You know, there are random castle ruins everywhere. Like there are castle ruins in like the parking lot of the grocery store. Like it's just random. There's just history everywhere, and I find that fascinating. And it's beautiful with the rolling hills and all the green and you know, sheep on sheep on sheep. It was great, but um, I was probably the most scared about not fitting in. What if his family hates me? You know, what if I can't find my people, you know. But also, I have I've had to start over so many times. It's just like, well, I wonder what adventure is gonna happen this time, you know. Were you able to to talk to or meet any of his family prior to to going over there? Yeah, I had met his family. They were mostly polite, but I was seeing more than they thought that they were showing. Um, you know, I'm autistic in ADHD and the pattern recognition is real. I also have some spiritual gifts and sometimes I just note things. Um and I saw glimpses, but then once I was married, I was like, I'm gonna have to be careful here. I don't I don't know if this is is this weird to ask like about your your diagnosis as ADHD and like with autism. Um were you aware of that? Like uh going into like a situ like into like going to Wales and everything, like was that something that you were aware of like earlier in your adult life or no, I didn't. I didn't know. Um I knew it was different. I knew like uh finding people that I felt comfortable around was very difficult. Now I know it's because the people that get along with me are also neurodivergent. Um so no, at the time I didn't know that. I was aware of my spiritual gifts because that's just been a thing since I was a kid. But after being in my marriage for a while and starting to focus more on like my healing and my growth and less attention on making sure he was good and you know, trying to fix his issues for him, which can't be done. You gotta fix your own stuff. I started pouring into myself and I started learning more, and I started seeing more things about autism and ADHD and how it presents in women specifically, and I thought this sounds a lot like me. But prior to that, I had no idea because my oldest brother is very ADHD, like he wouldn't be fooling anybody. Um, and because I didn't present in that way, I thought, that's not me, that can't be me. And I mean, everybody has their own kind of like quirks and symptoms, and it's it's it's kind of hard to make it's kind of hard to make a judgment on yourself based off of what you see in somebody else because you it might be completely different. Um so all of that to say, like I it's I yeah, I was just curious if um if if that played uh a big part in like kind of some of the anxiety of of moving uh kind of like moving across the world, like if that was uh you know something that you struggled with uh in in that situation, and maybe you did struggle with it, but you just didn't know at the time that that's why you were struggling with it. Like that could very well be. But one thing I I I I really I I really want to like kind of like get into with you is is there a moment um that it really hit you, like a first moment where it really hit you that you like you live here now, like this is like this is the place that you're from. Because it's one thing like when you visit somewhere or like when you first move, you don't feel like you belong there, but like it was there a point in nine years, I'm assuming at some point you started thinking, like, hey, I'm from I'm from this country, like this is where I live. I would say probably like about a year in, um, because I started making some friends of my own. I joined a choir and um I made two very, very wonderful friends, and both of them speak Welsh, and both of them are very involved in the community, um and a little bit political here, but um so England has control over the entire UK. Everything is run out of London. Um, and so my one of my best friends, Alad, um, started a chapter in our tiny village that was dedicated to promoting a campaign for independence for Wales. And I got involved in that and started uh learning Welsh hymns to sing at these events. And people actually thought that I was fluent and they'd try to talk to me afterward, and I'd be like, I'm so sorry, I'm not there yet. So curious, is is Welsh as a language, like, is it actually pretty common, like commonly spoken, especially in some of these smaller villages, I would assume, like, but not like I I don't know. Like I just assume like if I'm going to somewhere like Cardiff, like a larger city, like they're probably mostly English speaking. Like you're not gonna run into a lot of people that are speaking Welsh, but like I could see that happening more in like some some of these smaller, older villages. Yeah, well, I was in the South, uh, I was in South Wales, uh, probably like 40 minutes from Cardiff. So it was primarily English speaking. Um, but you get pockets of people who, you know, dove into learning the language or their parents put them in Welsh school uh because it was important to them. Um, we had a local Welsh school, but if if you want to find places where they're primarily speaking Welsh and finding English speakers is, you know, more rare, you'll go to the west side of Wales or the North. I don't know that I can distinguish like if I were to hear uh Welsh spoken, I don't know that I would be able to like to identify that as Welsh. Do you have a phrase or anything that you could say? Um you can say like Hware Tag, which is fair play, like oh fair play. Um happy birthday is Pemblay Dapis. Merry Christmas is Nedoliklauen. So it it actually it it sounds a lot closer to like I would say like Gaelic or something like that. Yeah, it's a Celtic language. Okay, so that that makes perfect sense. If I if I were to hear that, I would not be able to uh discern that from Gaelic. Um, but it's it's a cool language, and I feel like it's one of those ones that's gotta be hard to actually speak. So kudos to you for at least learning the hymns. Well, I had a patient, my very first patient um in Wales was 102, and she would teach me uh phrases and words and like the days of the week or my colors and my numbers. It was really cute because I I'd be doing her care and she'd be giving me lessons. Um, and our favorite phrase together was um no sta d duaspendichio, which means good night and God bless. And we would say that every night. Oh, that's cute. 102. Uh that's that's a byproduct of that universal healthcare. Yeah. I'm sure. Yeah. I I don't see that happening as much over here in the States. I don't think I I I don't think I'm gonna be able to afford to live past 80. So let's let's be real. Um I my my body will start falling apart and I won't be able to afford to keep it together. It's gonna happen. So uh the next thing I want to kind of ask you about was like, what was like the the biggest cultural shock for you moving to Wales versus you know growing up in small rural Indiana uh where we did have ruins in our gas, our grocery store parking lots, by the way. It's just the ruins of old gas stations and other buildings that are all over all around. One of the funny things was when I first got there, I would just walk around town trying to get my bearings and stuff and you know, just see what's around. And I'd just be walking. And uh the way they greet people, they don't say hello, they say, All right, all right, all right. So I'm walking down the street and every person I pass is looking at me, going, all right. And I'm like, do I have something on my face? Why is everybody asking me if I'm all right? That yeah, that that's a funny one. I I can imagine some circumstances in which like you're just kind of walking around and being like said that to you over and over again, and you're like, what the hell? Like it's I'm getting paranoid now. Can you identify anything that like you thought was gonna be really hard about about moving to another country that actually ended up being fairly easy? Um understanding the accent, it was tricky at first, but pretty quickly you catch on and you just you just decipher everything without thinking. But when I when I very first got there, um I landed in the airport, went straight to a concert in Cardiff, and met my partner at the time's friends, and they were talking to each other and they were talking so quick with their thick ask accents that I was like, Are you speaking Welsh? And they all laughed at me. They're like, No. He was like, Don't worry, we'll slow down. Oh my god, to be fair, I can get overwhelmed listening to large groups of people when they are English, like like American, like American accent, Midwest accent. Like, if you get enough people around me talking at the same time, like I struggle with that too. So I can imagine being in like I I don't know, like I I find myself anytime I I watch like a show, like a British show or a Scottish or Irish, like any kind of like television, I always have to have the subtitles on because otherwise, like I know, even though they're speaking English, like I will get lost and I'm not gonna follow along as well as I would like to. And um, I I can't imagine kind of like being thrown into the deep end in a in a concert setting at that uh first thing and just feeling like what what is happening here? What was the concert? Oh gosh, I can't remember, I can't remember the name. I want to say it was like Save Your Breath. Um might have been Kids in Glass Houses, um, but there was a a tiny club in Cardiff called Club Ive Bach, and um they would have like a lot of alt rock bands there. So pretty typical to like a kind of a smaller venue that we would have here that like some of the like rock bands and stuff like that kind of come through. Um so to kind of flip that conversation a little bit, like what is something that you thought was gonna be easy, but it actually ended up being like just really like difficult, like maybe even by the time you you moved away from Wales, like you still were not used to it. Well, I didn't even think about food being an issue. I thought they they speak English, we speak English, you know, tomato, potato, it's all gonna be the same. Not a big deal. Um, and when I went there, I was like, I don't know what to order, I don't know what to eat. Like I asked for a lemonade at a restaurant, they brought me Sprite. And I was like, Oh, I'm so sorry. I I asked for lemonade, and they're like, That is lemonade, what are you talking about? They don't have lemonade, like at all. Yeah, it'll say lemonade on the menu, but what they mean is Sprite. Like, yeah, this is uh this is a lemon lime soda drink. Yeah. Like not lemon juice with sugar and water and ice. And more sugar. And more sugar. Uh, I can't imagine like that's one of those things for me. Like, lemonade is one of those things I have to be specifically craving. I'm not like a daily lemonade drinker, but that would be kind of hard to like be in a situation like where you're craving it and you go to order. Cause like, I mean, I'll I'll do that at restaurants now, like when I'm craving it. Like, I every once in a while it happens, but you go to ask for it and they just give you Sprite and like the disappointment of taking a drink, expecting like the sour lemonade, and it's just no. Yeah, well, and I'm not a pop drinker, which is why I went for the lemonade. Surprise, surprise, it's soda. So this is actually a great segue. Um, the this whole this the whole idea of this episode actually stemmed from you and I having a conversation about snacks. Um and you kind of started talking about like, you know, snacks that you miss from the UK. And I was I hadn't really like thought about like, you know, like when you move to a foreign country, like you're there's so many things that you don't have available to you anymore, especially like um not to date us, but like this was a few years back. Like it's not you didn't have as many of the modern conveniences of like, all right, I'm gonna order this on Amazon, it's gonna be delivered to me the next day, or um like, and there wasn't as many like kind of international markets in an online setting where you could order snacks and foods from other countries to be like delivered to you. Um, what were like what were some of the things that you left at home that you weren't able to get over there that you really missed? What were snacks from America that I couldn't have in Wales? Snacks from America that you left. Like, so what what were the things that like when you got over there you you would have cravings for and you could not get? Honestly, I don't think there were any. Like you can get you can get Cheez-Its, you can get Pop-Tarts, you can get like all kinds of things. They have Pringles, they have stuff like that. Um and you know, I wasn't huge into snack foods at the time. I had a harder time leaving the snacks in Wales when I came back to America. Do would you say, I mean, so you you had all of these snacks available? Um, from what my understanding is in in a lot of uh countries outside of the United States, like even though they'll have the same branded snacks, like a lot of times the ingredients are actually different and there's a a hell of a lot less sugar used in these products. Um, like how is adapting to that? Like, did it ever like feel off to you uh eating some of these snacks and like it just like wasn't quite right? Like, do you get used to it? Was it better in the end? It was better. I actually didn't think I liked chocolate until I moved to Wales, and the chocolate is something else entirely, and now I'm a chocolate fiend. But it has to be the right chocolate, not not what you're having here in the States. Um you can get a Kit Kat in America and get a Kit Kat in the UK, and it will taste completely different. And they call they I mean they they kind of mix up names like um, I think it's a Milky Way in the UK is actually a three musketeers here. And like what we would call a Milky Way, they call a Mars bar. So there's some weird stuff like that, but the quality of the food is better over there. Like they use they they uh have stricter health regulations when it comes to like food products, and so you would think, oh, it's not gonna have as much flavor, it's not gonna be as tasty, but it might be healthier for you. It is healthier and it tastes better. And like you could be on a junk food diet here and then be on a junk food diet over there, and you would still lose weight. Plus, you got that universal healthcare coming into just it's coming in clutch every time. It's gonna save you. Uh man, I I don't know. You're you're you're making like anywhere but here sound pretty damn appealing. Okay, so yeah, so there weren't a lot of snacks that you didn't have available to you. Um that you, I mean you could still get, might have tasted a little different. Um, but what about like the so like the flip side of that coming back to the States? Like, what are some things that you really missed from Wales? Most of it's chocolate. So there's a candy bar called a double decker, which I don't even know how to describe it. One layer of it is nougat, the other layer is like little tiny malt balls, but it's all like encased in chocolate, and it's like it it's in a chocolate bar form, and it's just like heaven, textural dream. I love it. And then there's uh Toffee Crisp, which is very popular, um which is kind of like kind of like a caramel bar with like a crunch bar on the outside of it. And then there's um one of my favorites is it's called a crunchy. So it's like honeycomb, not the cereal, but like like actual honey. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like honeycomb dipped in chocolate, and it's the best thing ever. I'm like trying to picture in my in my head like what that would first off, what that would look like, but like what that would taste like. That that sounds delicious. Yeah. So like, I mean, that's that's uh that's actually something like I've been getting into a lot more in the last year. As I I love honey, like like real raw honey. I I've been like in the like last summer, which I'm gonna have to start going again uh this summer, but I I I would go to like local farmer uh farmers markets and just get a lot of honey products. Um so like that with some chocolate mixed into it. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It's so good. It's like you can bite into it and it's crunchy, but if you let it sit in your mouth, it just melts. It's magic. It's so good. So outside of like food and snacks, like what are some other uh kind of just everyday differences that um you know, like most most Americans wouldn't really think of like think of when they think about like living in the in the UK? I should have predicted you were going to ask this question. I should have written some statements down because nothing's coming to me like off the top of my head, but they use different sayings and different phrases and they mean totally different things. And you're talking to them and they say something to you like, I'm sorry, but I don't know what that means. And actually, I've had a few arguments with people that ended up being diffused because I had to stop them and say, I don't know if you're insulting me. I don't know if you're trying to be nice because I don't know what that means. And they'd be like, Oh, well, when somebody says this, it means that. And I'm like, okay, thank you. Continue. Were they usually I'm gonna say, like, were they usually pretty good about kind of explaining the phrase and and clearing it up for you? Okay, well, that's good. At least they're not kind of uh, you know, like, oh, I'm not gonna tell this American what I actually mean. Yeah, they they would be in my face saying something, and I'd be like, I'm so sorry, but what does that mean? Should I be insulted right now? Yeah, they would back off right away and put on their teacher hat and start like giving me a little lesson, and then by the time they were done with that, everything was diffused and we could just talk it out. It was fine. What is one thing that you would say, and this doesn't have to be like uh Wales in general, all right, like in general, but like just like what is one thing that you would say the British do better than Americans? Period. I'm gonna make so many people mad. You're you're setting me up here. Oh yeah. I would say uh tolerance and music. Is in like producing music, like writing, performing, yeah, like just all of it. The music scene in general in Wales is insane. Like you know how a million amazing bands came out of New Jersey. Wales is New Jersey for for the UK or for just the world in general, Wales is. I think for the world in general, there okay, so a lot of people aren't fully aware of Wales' existence. Um, but if I start lift listing off like bands or actors that are from Wales, people would be like, no way, no way. And I I feel like that's that's the case for a lot of English bands too. Like there's like there's so many, like sometimes you don't really when you're listening to music and it transcends like like the accents and like the just some of the cultural differences. Like it sometimes it's hard to like you kind of have to listen to it for a second. Like, wait, is this are uh is this a British band? Is this like what is happening here? Um, and like I I I get it. Like there's there's some great, great, great music that has come out of that area. I can't imagine like I'm assuming that you probably like to this day like still listen to a lot of the music that you discovered while you were over there. Yeah, I do. Um, I went to a lot of festivals over there. Um, I've been to some festivals over here, but it's it's a different vibe. Like in Wales, everybody sings. Everybody sings from the soul, like the music is like in the place, like every fiber of your being. You go to a you go to a football game or soccer, whatever you want to call it, and it's a stadium full of grown men singing, and it's the most beautiful thing, and you feel it, you know. I love a good arena ballad. Um it's it's crazy because like I do think that that is starting to catch on a little bit more, especially as like MLS is kind of taking off more in the United States. Um, like you're starting to see crowds like do the chants, do like do the sing song, like do all of these things like a lot more. Um, I I I am I am that's like one thing that like I've got on my bucket list is like going to a like a football match, like in another country, like just experiencing like that crowd energy because like I feel like it's nothing like anything that I've experienced going to any kind of American sporting event. Yeah, yeah, I mean you should do it. Just go. All right, I'm packing my bags up. Yeah, get a passport. Once I'm back over there, you can just fly over. We'll we'll go to a game. Why not? There we go. Funny story. So, like, uh not not funny story. I'm actually, I was supposed to have been leaving for Scotland uh a couple days from now, actually. Um that was a a trip that I had booked. Uh, it was supposed to happen. It was actually my third time rebooking a trip to the UK. Um, life just keeps happening and it keeps kind of keeping me away from going to the UK. So hopefully the next time I I book and I I plan a little adventure out to the UK, um, hopefully I'm able to kind of follow through and actually go this time. So I'm looking forward to it. One thing I I I'm kind of curious about is like we so we did talk about like what was that first moment that you felt like that really was like where you belong. But like how how long do you say would you say that it took you to kind of feel like Wales was your home? Honestly, probably after I left my husband, because my husband was very like controlling. Um, he decided who I was allowed to talk to, when I was allowed to talk to them, you know. He had a he had a lot of say in who I was and what I did. And so it was hard to like have deep ties. I had my two friends and they were the only ones. Once I left that relationship, I was able to be out and about and like really lay down roots. And I realized, you know, every time I would come back to visit my family in America, I would just be like, man, I miss home. I just miss home. Like that's those are my people, you know, that's my place. That's I feel I feel like I fit for the first time in my life. And um, yeah, it's hard, it's hard not being there. I and I I completely get that. I mean, you spend whether you're from that place or not, you spend enough time there, even in a situation that didn't really allow you to experience it fully, or you you would you would kind of put down ties there. You would put down like I I I could see that being a problem coming back. And um, I don't know if you really want to get into this, but uh I I I I know obviously you weren't with your your partner the entire time uh that you were were living in Wales. I don't know like how how long did you get to experience uh kind of being on your own over there? So I left him I would say just shy of being married for seven years. And then I got my own house. Um, so it's probably like another two and a half years, two and a half, three years after that that I was really able to do my own thing, but it didn't take long. How's the house buying experience over there? Nightmare, absolute nightmare. Takes forever. Why is that? I don't know, to be honest. Um because I had listed my house uh for a year. Buying it was way easier than selling it, which was strange. Um so it took me six months to buy my first house, and then when I had to come back to America, I had to sell it, and it was on the market for over a year, and then someone finally wanted to buy the house, and it took like almost another year for the paperwork to go through. Oh, that's awful. Such a pain. Like we've got like a 30-day underwriting experience here in the States, and like then you close and you're pretty much you're good. That sounds miserable, like so much red tape. So that's the that's the trade-off, is like some of the bureaucracies that you experience in other areas when you have your universal health care and like you have all of these other benefits, but like other areas they might kind of not be so great. Well, then when I had to come back to America, it was like the job market is impossible. I was applying to like several hundreds of jobs a week and didn't get a bite until like nine months, and all of my money was tied up in the house that I couldn't sell. And so that was that was tough, but it all worked out in the end. Looking back, uh, just kind of at who you were before going to Wales and who you were when you left Wales to come back to the States. Um, would you say that you were a different person leaving than you were coming in and kind of talk about like what some of those changes were, uh, for the the better or the worst? I feel like I've been several different people. Like I've lived several different lives since first leaving America and going over there because there was the phase of realizing, you know, the situation I had married into, figuring out how to safely get out of that situation while not like losing myself and then rebuilding after that because the way things ended, you know, it could have been a very scary thing for me. But by that time it it did, I was so ready to just be out that I didn't care what I had to deal with, anything was gonna be better than that. I got into nursing school, you know, I moved in with my best friend, and then she passed away, and then I had some health concerns. Like there was like a lot of things happening all at once, and I had to unlock a new aspect of myself at every single one of those turns. But I am grateful for the people who supported me and the choices that I made because I'm really proud of who I am in this moment, and I'm excited to see what the next adventure is and what I'm gonna learn from that. And that's that's one thing that, like, you know what, that's very true. Like, you you do kind of live multiple lives over the course of your life. Um, even like, so like our friendship, like we have been friends through different stages or different lifetimes, I would say, um, starting off kind of like in high school and then like into like early adulthood and and now like years later. Um, it it is crazy like how how much people stay the same, but also how much they they can change going from like one life transition into the other. Um, and again, this this this podcast, refill, like this whole thing is about like kind of that that reinventing and rediscovery of yourself and you know, like going through a major life change and kind of pushing yourself like into the next iteration. Um, so yeah, that that that would I feel like that's that's one of those those things, like moving to a foreign country, being there for as long as you were, and then and then moving back, like you go through some pretty life-altering changes. That's uh that's a metamorphosis. Uh so like I I thank you for for sharing that journey with me. So you mentioned uh, I mean, coming back was was was hard because you've kind of like found this community in in life there uh that you that you really missed. Like I was wondering, uh, would you mind opening up about uh what it was that that made you make that decision to to come back to the United States after that time? Um, it was a combination of things, but basically what happened was uh my mom passed away unexpectedly on Christmas Eve, and um so I came back for the funeral on Christmas Day, you know, flight halfway across the world. In one hell of a state. And um I wasn't well. I I was having health problems as well and grieving heavily because she was, you know, the most incredible person and my best friend. Um, I feel very lucky that she was my mom. Um, but I was concerned about who's gonna show up for my dad. I have two older brothers, they're five and seven years older than me, but they've got wives and kids of their own, and they don't live locally. Um, they don't live as far as I did, but you know, an hour and a half, two and a half hours away. And I just thought, who's who's gonna be there for him? And then he moved his mom into the house who coincidentally is also about to be 102 in September. Hey, well, that's not using the universal healthcare, so I I don't know, maybe it's something in the water. Yeah, I don't know. Good genetics, I guess. But um so she's she's here with dad as well, and um he he couldn't do some of the things that she needs, and so you know, I'm here, I'm here to help. But there comes a point where it's like I've done everything I can, I'm willing to put in the work to put things in place to make sure that you know everyone's taken care of, but it can't all rest on me all the time. And so my goal is to go back to Wales. Do you have a timeline for that? Or just at some point you're gonna go back to Wales? I'm trying by September. That's ambitious. Have you met me? I I if anybody can do it, it's you. Um what so like what are some of the things that you're you're trying to to I guess get taken care of in order to make that happen? Well, technically I still have indefinite leave to remain status, which is like the one step below citizenship. Basically, the only right that I don't have is um the right to vote in, you know, national elections. I can vote locally, but I can't vote in national elections. Um and also there's a time limit on how long you can be out of the country. So are you coming up on that on that deadline? In September. So Okay, so that's that that puts the pressure on. Like that really is that kind of like, all right, it's either now or never. But I have been back to the UK to visit twice since I left, which I think helps that timeline a little bit. And um, I've been talking to an immigration lawyer just to make sure that I'm doing everything above board, because the last thing you need is problems with immigration. So Oh, I I'm sure a lot of people out there can can really resonate with that. Um, it's it's interesting to like kind of see it from like another country's perspective and like how they're dealing with with immigration, though. I'm sure it's probably not quite as uh as awful as as what we're seeing here in the United States. But um, you know, it definitely like making sure that you're everything's above board and and you're good to go so that you don't run into any uh any walls um once you do get over there. So September is like that's that's ambitious. That's just a few months down the line. That's the summer. You really you've got the summer to to to figure this out. You're making me sweat. Oh yeah. So kind of um if I if I could uh just take a step back uh for just a moment. Um, you know, you were you were talking about your mom. I I know that you've you've always been very close with your with your mom. Um was she able ever able to to visit you in Wales? I wasn't sure if she ever got a chance to to make it out there. And what I what was that like for her? Oh, she loved it. It was, you know, she was a thrill seeker, like way more than I am. I'm I like new experiences, but I'm very cautious and I like to over-plan and over-prepare. She she just wanted to get up and go. And she did. She loved it. Um, I think my my photo on Facebook is actually a photo of me and her on the mountain in my village in Wales. Yeah, also, she's allergic to everything, so she could never have pets, but she's like the most lovey person in existence. And I had a cockpoo, which is of course hypoallergenic, and she was obsessed. Like she would almost like push me out of the house and tell me to go make plans because she wanted to hang out with the dog. Oh it's it it it's it's great. Like it sucks when you have those kind of allergies and like you you want to be like all up in a dog, like just and it it's just not that's not a thing that can happen. You get pretty, pretty itchy, pretty miserable. Um, I I've got a yeah, well, audience, you can't see this. I've got uh a a little a little doodle sitting sitting behind me, and he's hypoallergenic as well, but that still like does bother me to an extent. I don't think there's anything such there's such a thing as like a fully hypoallergenic dog, but I'll tell you, like, I've had dogs that weren't doodles before, and I couldn't snuggle them the same way. Like it just it kills you. So that's that's cool that she got like she fell in love with this dog. Um uh so like I mean what what were like what were some of the things like when you would have somebody come from uh like the states to visit you, what were some of the like the biggest things that you loved showing them and taking them to do? So we I would take them to do like basic things, like I'll take them to a Greg's and you can get like a chicken bake pasty or something like that. What is a Greg's? It's like a like a bakery, it's like a little tiny shop. You go in, you can get like a sausage roll or a pasty or like one slice of beef. It's like like the kind of stuff you get at a gas station, food-wise, as far as hot food, and like coffee. Um, that's what a Greg's is, but it's it's a staple in the UK. Um, and then other than that, I would always take them to a football game. I would take them to uh St. Fagin's, which is uh I don't think you can say that on air. You can. Okay. It's a name, it's F-A-G-A-N, but it's pronounced Fagin. So it's like a historical park where they have actually like lifted entire historical homes and created this place where like you can visit these different styles, homes from different eras and like get a history lesson on the entire Welsh history, which is great. Um, and then there's also Cardiff Castle because you can go there and like visit the whole castle and the manor houses and everything, but you can also go to concerts there. Oh, that would be so cool. I am I'm a huge collector of concert venues. Like I will travel uh to different cities for specific venues, even if I it's not so much the band itself that I'm I'm really looking forward to. And sometimes it turns out to be a uh an amazing, like kind of just surprise, like, oh shit, I really love this band, on top of the fact that I got to see them in this really cool venue that I've always wanted to go to. So like I can imagine like seeing a concert in a castle. It's pretty acidic. I've been um I have you ever heard of the band Fools? Mm-mm. Well, they're pretty pretty popular in some circles. Um, and I saw them at Cardiff Castle. We're gonna start kind of winding this down uh just a little bit. Uh, but before we do, um, you know, like people talk a lot about like we and we have talked a lot about the cultural shock of going from the United States to living in another country. What about returning home? Like were there c were there shocks to like when you came back to the US after living away for so long? Like what were the biggest things that were like just different? And you you had forgotten how certain things were and like trying to readapt to that. Um, I would say like on a national scale, like it's kind of scary being back because of the political climate and everything is so divided, and you know, there's scary things happening with immigration and ice, and you know, um, so that's upsetting, but I will say on a more local level, I was very pleased to come back to my hometown and see diversity. I had never seen diversity in this town, and when it was especially in a a a tiny ass little rural Indiana town. Like it's like listeners, it's it's bad. It's yeah, it's bad. Yeah, but like I was seeing diversity and they looked happy. And like I could I could talk to the I complimented an outfit, I was which you know, it was fire, so but like, you know, and they were like, oh, thank you, you know, like no big deal. Whereas before it was very us versus them mentality, which you know never never worked for me. I I was um yeah, I was very vocal, got bullied a lot for that, but good luck bullying me because uh I'm not that successful. No, no, good on good on you for for doing the right thing and trying to help your your community grow. I would love to see more than that. Whether you like it or not, yeah. We're gonna go through this change. I would I would love to see more small communities kind of go through that. Like I live in a small town in Ohio myself now, and like it's it's just it's slow to change. And even though like we are growing pretty rapidly and we have a pretty uh pretty diverse um population here, um, you just see like my kids are in the school systems, like you hear a lot of just really, really sad stories about like how kids are treated. And I you know, like it's it's 2026, y'all. Let's let's let's do the right thing here. Yeah. Um, so yeah, uh kind of winding this down then, um the last like real question I have for you is is also around like you know, like you, you, you did this move, you came back. Obviously, the home that you came back to was very different from the home that you left, uh, not just in your community, but um, you know, not having your mom there anymore and uh some of these other changes that you went through. Um as you're sitting here, like we you know, you were talking about wanting to to to move back to Wales again and make that transition yet again. Um, you know, like how do you find define home now? Like how what what is home for you now? Home, like I know people always say like home is where the heart is. My heart was always with my mom, but my home is where my peace was. And no, no other person can be your peace. So um for me, it was existing in a place where the only expectations I had to live up to are mine and being true to myself and living in that authenticity. And um that's where I found my peace. That's where I found myself, that's where I found my community and my people. Um, because even moving back to the States, I have struggled to make friends. Um, not because I can't talk to people or I'm hard to approach, but because I've been through so much in my life that I'm at a point now where it's like if you threaten my peace, you will not be here. So finding people that align in that way and are safe people is it's been difficult. What advice would you give to someone who is considering a major life change, such as moving across the world? Um, but maybe they're afraid to take that leap. I would say just do it, just Nike that sucker, because i if you don't do it, you're you're always gonna wonder. And you never know where it's gonna take you. Like, think of if you get out of your everyday normal routine and what you've always known, imagine what opportunities will come to you when you step out of that bubble and you get to see more of the world. You get to see how other people experience life. It it makes you a more empathetic person if you're doing it right. It makes you a more empathetic person. You're uh more aware of how things can be, how things maybe should be. Even though you've always held a certain belief, you will come across things that challenge that belief. And then you get to see where you really stand once you've been on the other side. You know, especially in the circumstance of you know, somebody moving to another country or something like that. Um, do your research before you go, you know, consume the media, um hear how they talk, cultural things that are important, like what's polite over there, do's and don'ts. Like Google's full of lists, it's not that hard. It's uh, but it that's a big thing. Because there's, you know, even moving to an English speaking country, there were a lot of cultural differences that I didn't expect. One thing one thing I I I do want to kind of like ask, uh it and it sounds like, you know, as you're prepping up, uh like prepping to to to potentially move back, you're already kind of doing this, but like what what is something that like you know, like you're you're kind of like refilling your life with now? Um like what like what are what are some things that you're focused on uh out maybe outside of this this potential move back to another country? Like what like what are you focused on right now? Honestly, I have been neglecting certain things that like sort of like feed my soul um because I've been so busy. I I got a job, but shortly after I got a promotion, I'm learning new skills, I'm working overtime, I'm taking care of grandma, you know, there's a lot going on. But um I haven't sung in a very, very long time. So I've started driving to Ohio just to sing in my car, and that has been fantastic. Listeners, I I I will say for like I think from where you're at, um, you're maybe like a half an hour away from Ohio. It's not like a super long drive across state lines, but that's that's well, it's 15 minutes where I'm going. It's 50 minutes. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't sure like what direction you're headed in, but like it's it's it's it's it's northeast, like central east Indiana. Um it's not it's not super duper far. I I I will say like I know uh going to college in Indiana, um at that time you could not purchase alcohol on Sundays in the state of Indiana. So we would drive across state lines to get beer for like football Sunday, like all the like that's that's just what you do, like because you can't buy it on Sundays. And if you forgot to buy it more on Saturday, then you're kind of screwed. So not a super long drive, but um, I I can get behind like taking drives just to get in the car and sing. Like that's that's something that like you know I haven't done in a long time too. And it it's kind of like it's it's one of those other than the shower, it's like one of those places where you just feel like empowered to like, I'm gonna really belt this out. Nobody's here to judge me. Um, and you sound great in the car. I mean, if I recorded myself, I'm sure I probably wouldn't think so. But like you feel like you sound great in the car and you just feel cool doing it. It's that's my that's my one thing, my self-care thing that I love to do. That's that's a great, a fantastic self-care thing. It's a really good way of refilling your cup when you know, like life, which you know it it happens to us all, but like life can drain. Uh and the the more the more little like holes you get in the bottom of your cup. I don't know why I'm going so hard into this metaphor right now, but uh the more holes you get in the bottom of the cup, the faster it drains. And you've gotta you've gotta really like do what you gotta do to to keep that to keep that that water line up. So yeah, musical band-aids. Yeah, there you go. Um, you have a favorite song that you like to sing in the car? Oh, put me on the spot. At the moment, it's actually Newborn by Muse. You know, I um I hadn't listened to Muse in a while. There was a song that popped up yesterday on my like um Friday like new release uh playlist, and I was like, this is actually pretty like it reminded me of like I don't know, like some like old Muse, and like it was just very like very progressive. And I was like, this is I'm I'm really digging this. I can't remember what the song was off the top of my head. Um, but I'm I'm I think I'm gonna like I've been kind of in a mood to jump back in and listen to more muse just because like that song like had me so like oh yeah, like this is doing something for me. Yeah, listen to newborn. Well, I I appreciate you taking the time to to talk with me uh and kind of opening up, like not just about like the snacks and all of those fun little things, but kind of just opening up around um, you know, like what brought you to Wales in the first place? Like, like that's that's you know a big thing that I I would love to focus on is just like these life circumstances that do kind of push people into change, uh into to kind of finding new versions of themselves. Um it's a huge, it's a huge focus for me right now, and it's really what this whole podcast is about. So thank you so much for for sharing that. Um, before we go, is there anything that you would like to to plug or shout out? No, I just, you know, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's it's been great to uh have a chat with an old friend. So thank you. All right. Well, listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to Jenny and I's Midlife Crisis. We we've got more episodes coming up. Oh man, I'm really bad at intros and outros. You're finding this out about me. I'm not even gonna cut this, I'm just gonna keep rambling. Uh, thank you for listening to the refill podcast. Uh, this has been Ginny Cash with Justin Tyler. See you on the next one. I don't know why I just said that. I've never said that in my life. Bye.