Life Workshop
At the Life Workshop, we explore and spark curiosity around the topics that shape our everyday lives. We believe in the power of the 80/20 principle—focusing on the 20% of effort that delivers 80% of the results—so you can achieve more with less.
Life Workshop
S1E8 Would You Trim my Back?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
There are times which we give a good connotation to a bad behaviour or alternatively, a bad connotation to a good behaviour.
So when somebody makes a comment, you have to ask them, "is this a good thing or a bad thing?"
Richer societies can afford more independent life, independence leads to being alone which could lead to loneliness. That is why in richer societies anxiety and depression is more common and end up with less codependence and less sense of community.
Codependence, asking for help as well as providing help deepens friendships. Having a stronger community translates to more happiness.
At times we buy emotionally and justify rationally.
Be comfortable to ask for help and make others comfortable to ask for your help. Often it is us who feel uncomfortable to ask for help, while others are more than willing to offer it. Very frequently we are too shy to ask for help, but are more than willing to offer it.
Mo claims he's vegetarian by dark.
Q: Ask your friends if they would trim your back, or come and help you blow out the water lines with their air compressor. Or would you do that for them?
Welcome to Life Workshop, where we discuss the forgotten basics. Here we go, Mo and Bo, your most favorite host and co-host ever.
SPEAKER_04If you didn't know it, now you know.
SPEAKER_03So today's episode is on would you trim my back? I'm a bit hairy. A little bit. Okay. And then I have an eight pack that unfortunately the hair is covers it.
SPEAKER_00Oh.
SPEAKER_03So when I trim it, it shows better.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_03The problem is when I trim, I can trim my chest, but I cannot trim my back. And in the past, actually I didn't know, and I did that once in a race, and it was hot, and then I took my shirt off and I'm running. Then a friend she mentioned, hey Mo, if you trim your chest, at least trim your back too. I didn't realize that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you gotta keep it homogeneous.
SPEAKER_03Now, but I cannot trim my own back. So my question is, Bo, if I would come to you and say that, hey buddy, would you trim my back?
SPEAKER_00What's the answer? My gut answer is no. No. And why is that? Because no. There's something I don't know why. Just doing that to this is cultural again. Yes. Doing this to another man in my culture. It's weird. But I was, you know, and when you first approached me with this, you know, that was my I told you no. Yes. I mean you didn't really ask me to do it, but you were saying this is a thing you were gonna ask. And I had to think about it and I thought about it for a while. And I talked to my girlfriend about it because it was it bothered me. I was like, why why why do I say no right away? I'm like, no. And they won't, and it's because like I consider that that's girlfriend territory, you know, your girlfriend can shave your back for you and do it.
SPEAKER_03Let's say if I don't have a girlfriend, then what but what shall I do?
SPEAKER_00There is a whole industry based around that.
SPEAKER_03Okay. One eight hundred trim my back.
SPEAKER_00No, is having an estation. Okay. They do that, they wax your back or whatever, or do a sugar thing, or you know, that's whatever. And by me doing that for you, I'm taking away someone's job. So I'm stealing the shirt off someone's back.
SPEAKER_03So that is how you justify your bad behavior. Yes. Okay, good.
SPEAKER_00But and then I was thinking about it. Well, you know, say if a friend came to me and said, Hey, I have this surgery, I need to have this, you know, my back needs to get shaved for whatever. I'd be like, Yeah, I wouldn't have a problem with that. So you should have a shape. It wouldn't even I wouldn't even second guess it. I'd be like, Yeah, of course I will. Let's go. But if it's like, hey, you know, my front has to match my back, can you shave at my back? I'm like, no. So maybe I should come back and say that I needed to have a surgery.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Okay, then that would work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I don't I don't know why I feel that way. It just is.
SPEAKER_03You know what? This is interesting. As the audience, you might have noticed I have an accent. So in Iran, we did not have as much definition for the difference between men and woman. For example, pink is a woman's color and is not a guy's color. I think that's changing now. Okay, we did not have those things. When I came to the West, I realized there are so many definitions that that divides that how a man should behave versus a woman. And if you cross that, then it's not cool, buddy. And now we have to learn it. That it's okay if you do that. You are learning it again. But we didn't have such a thing. The concept that you said that by default you just said no, it wouldn't you trim my back? Lots of it, yes, I understand. It's the culture in here that um more frequently is not as manly, which I'm not understand. So if it is not manly, then it's not good. So what is the opposite of a manly? Because I have heard this.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um that whole definition of what it is to be a man is is ridiculous.
SPEAKER_03Correct. And you're we are coming to this realization, which is good because manly is really rough and tough, and you know, your voice should be like this.
SPEAKER_01Hey, it looks pretty cool actually. Maybe I should do that. But that's that's that would be more scary.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's like we were talking. Remember when we were talking about in your very first introduction, and you said don't make things Hollywood? Uh-huh. That's what I've always thought that is. That's that's a Hollywood thing. That's like a front or whatever. But when you actually get to know someone, a man or whatever, they're not that way. That's that's a surface level thing.
SPEAKER_03This is it is it's yeah, it's a persona that sometimes, and we think that persona is a good persona to be rough and tough. As a matter of fact, now I'm taking it a bit extra, but even the concept of somebody like today, today is March of 2022, um, where Putin, because if some people they listen to this in years from now, Putin has attacked Ukraine. But if somebody like Putin has become president of that country and has been able to stay there, is because in the Russian culture, being rough and tough is more encouraged. And he gave them that persona.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_03That is something that he has hang on to. So a lot of times it this uh these behaviors that we have, even right now. I have talked to some people, believe it or not, people that are more into that roughly and manly and tough and rough, they have a little bit of a actually desire towards Putin. Believe it or not. They don't want to say it publicly, but you see, there is a bit of a desire there. And the reason is because he presents like being rough, and you know, he takes his shirt off, he catches the lion, he has gun and this thing. So when he does that, then we understand it that way, it's a recipe for disaster. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah, you know, and I I went a bit too far with this, but you know, it is in that line.
SPEAKER_00That's fine, but you can do all of those things. Like you can have the guns and you can go out hunting. As long as you don't all of those things, but you don't have to be like that guy. That is, you know what I mean? Like it's because if somebody somebody has the interest and I'm not that way, yeah, but but some some sometimes you are, you know, like there's a time and a place for everything.
SPEAKER_03If somebody if is interested in certain things is okay, as long as it's genuine, not that you're trying to create a persona to to that you know, and that persona to you looks good. If somebody is interested in guns or for example, I don't know. Um myself, for example, I did martial arts. Yeah, but um I don't know, I just don't go and uh give that persona done so rough and tough, although I um have you noticed it from my voice?
SPEAKER_00Yes. But most of the time though, those those say, well, we're gonna talk about them as men like that. Um you don't really want to be around those guys as much or as as often, I found. You know, the people who have that persona or or are making that persona for themselves, you you tend not to really hang with them very much.
SPEAKER_03The fact is that again it's more about education, you know. Last of time, you know, you know, they think that they are doing a good thing and they have a good persona, so it's a mess. I wouldn't necessarily write them off, but you know, it's okay. You know, I would just accept them for who they are and hopefully they get kind of educated. You you know what, you don't have to do that. You can be a cool guy, you know, you show your vulnerability, we all have flaws, and it's cool. Actually, when you do that, it shows that how comfortable you are with yourself. This is where I'm going, you know, it's okay. Even for example, I have asked some friends that would you trim my back, and then they said is gayish. I said, So is that a good thing or a bad thing?
SPEAKER_04You know, but and once somebody I don't think there's anything homosexual about it. This is the thing. I I don't know, but I have, and I'm gonna don't use the word gay, it's offensive. Anyways, I don't know. It's just a bit because it doesn't it doesn't mean homosexual anymore. I okay.
SPEAKER_03I I don't know about the you know now the terminologies, obviously they keep changing. But one thing that I can say is this we give words or some of the stuff we did a connotation of good or bad, which they don't have. For example, the connotation of being rough and tough is good and more manly, and I don't know if it's not as manly, then it's bad. And what is not manly is womanly, or what is it? You know, I'm not sure what it is. What I'm trying, I'm gonna get back to the main. I will talk about this at uh you know in another episode. That sometimes with connotation that we give, we give a bad connotation to a good thing or a good connotation to a bad thing. Very frequently it happens, and then we try to fit in and we talk about you know, we do the wrong thing because of that. But when it comes to this aspect of it, I should say this though. In the Western culture in general, and I'm generalizing it in here, I'm aware of it, and in countries, maybe I should just change my word. Sorry for that. You know, in societies that are richer, generally, people that they become they can be more independent. And when they can become more independent, the codependence becomes less. When the codependence becomes less, the sense of community becomes less. So for example, when they are richer and they have more money, if something goes wrong, they are living together. If something goes wrong, they said, you know what, screw that, I'm gonna get my own place. And they can. Instead of sharing a ride, they will go buy their own vehicle. They don't ask for help, they go find a professional in the field or non-professional and pay for the service. Right. For my haircut, I don't necessarily go to my friend who is not a professional hairdresser to ask, hey, can you cut my hair? But when it comes to my back, you don't need to be a professional. You just push the damn button and just trim it. That's all it is. And I feel very comfortable to go and ask. And this is interesting. I have asked the same question from a variety of people, variety, of course, I mean What did they say? And this is a very interesting one. More frequently, I have seen it in Canada, in the Western culture, well again, maybe correct the words, in the richer countries, which in here that has been Canada, the Canadian that they are coming from a richer, you know, background, often they say no, go, you know, find somebody to do it. And the ones that they are coming from a lower income, very much Canadian, they have been okay with it. When I have asked East European or the people of the other parts of the world, which normally or they are not as rich or they are just more community-oriented, often they are doing it. Even I asked, for example, one of my uh clients that I said, if a friend of yours would come and ask you, would you do it? She said, Yeah. And then she was surprised that why even I'm asking, why it should be a question? Who would do it otherwise? So it was such a natural thing that yes, I'm supposed to do that for a friend. But in the Western culture, what we do, we say, no, go get somebody. So if I for that I go get somebody, what is the next thing that I should go? For example, we have had this conversation before. For my house, you know, to blow out the lines, I need an air compressor. I can go buy one, but they refuse to do that, and they do it intentionally because that air compressor it's used just once a year. Yeah. That it's a waste of money, it's a waste of material. But think of all the things you could do if you had an air compressor.
SPEAKER_00But I'm not doing with them. Yeah, but that's justifying.
SPEAKER_04All these doors are open to you. I know, it's like people that they have lots of stuff that they never ever use.
SPEAKER_03That is called buying irrationally, justifying it rationally. Or buying emotionally and then just justifying it rationally. No, this is the thing, and this is why we end up with a lot of stuff that we don't need, and especially in this world that we are coming to know more and more that there is a concept of climate change, there is a concept of waste. You know, why do we do that? It doesn't serve me anything. And not only it doesn't serve me, as a matter of fact, it deserves me, it ruins something for me. Because this could be an opportunity for the past two years in here in this new house that I have. You know, I have been asking friends, and it has connected me once it was yourself the year before it was another body of mine. That we it connects us. Uh that he comes and helps me. And remember, they say, you know, if you don't feel good, go help somebody. Right. And now we are giving you that opportunity.
SPEAKER_00And you're not forcing me to feel good.
SPEAKER_03You should thank me for it. But in all seriousness, this is that in you command, you know, you do this for me, and when the time comes that I can do something for you, I do it. And it's not a matter of tit for tat. For example, I have in the previous uh thing that you talked about friendship, I have a buddy of mine that I know for a long time. Obviously, we have developed a history. To be honest, I don't know who has done more for who. We are not even thinking about that anymore. It's just we do it. That's it. There is no we don't count. You just you can do something, you do it. Period.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03So, and this is brings the friendship, makes the friendship more, deepens that. It makes you feel better. It everybody benefits from this. And that's it. If it was a professional thing, I would ask a professional. But it's trimming my freaking back. Yeah. You don't have to give it a style, you know, just trim the damn thing. You know, that's a very easy thing. But we justify it with something like this. Oh, you can create business for somebody else. Well, there is good in any bad, there is bad in any good. You just manage to find the bad in very good.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was joking, but you know. But then what so it's just my culture, then, like, and it's no offense to you, it's not you or anything, but why does it still make me feel icky?
SPEAKER_03Why do I not want to you know remember, change uh we have discussed briefly about this? Change happens in in steps. Change happens first, you accept it logically that it makes sense, but emotionally you're not there. Second thing, you talk about it, you promote it, but you may not even be able to do it yourself. So become a teacher, not doer. The third thing, you force yourself into doing it, but yet you're not feeling, you have to think about it before you do it. And after you have done it for some time, then it becomes you. And for myself, as a matter of fact, this is the interesting part. Since I have come to Canada, I have been here for 25 years now in Canada, and myself actually I have fallen into this trap that I do not ask for help as much. And as a matter of fact, as I was doing preparing for this podcast, I realized uh, you know, we are going away next weekend, and you know, I wanted to catch a ride with some of the friends. It's just like five of us, five five families, I should say, or five couples. And then uh if it was in a normal case scenario, myself I have fallen into a strap that I don't ask for help, and that's a very, very wrong thing. But then I realized I'm talking about that, but I'm not doing it. So what I did, I asked one of the friends, can I catch a ride with you there? And she was more than happy to said, yeah. And then I got the other one to ride me, you know, give me a ride back. You know, and actually it's uh it's one of the best things that we are not wasting, we are not if we are saving on the money part of it. Of course, you can say that if you had burnt some more gas, if you had wrecked your car, you could have created some business for somebody else. You could you could justify that way. I guess you could do that, but it is not a productive job, by the way. So at the end of the day, again, this is the thing, and a lot of times we limit ourselves. Remember that. We are the ones who limit ourselves, and I personally did it. But if I had gone simply asked, and to be honest, for myself, it was a bit harder. I had to, I was thinking, how can I propose this, you know, question? I asked that thing, but no, you can simply just ask. And as a map, now it's a kind of something that it's related more to what the previous subject that we were about, friends. When we say friends and vulnerability and those kind of things, it is when you are comfortable to ask for help. And if somebody asks for help from you, you know, you offer it without thinking too much about it. Because that gives you an opportunity. I should say this. Years ago, it was again in this running group, of course, a big running group, just to be clear. And one of the friends, and as a matter of fact, he is he suffers from depression, I know that. And we were running, we were running one kilometer as fast as we can, and we were running almost the same pace. So, but I don't have a garment. So at the end of the 1K, uh, you know, that we would stop and we would finish very close to each other, maybe one, two seconds off, and then he would check his garment, and I didn't have one. So I would ask him, what was our time? Then I did for at the first K and then after the second K. And in all honesty, my my set of that at that point, it didn't matter to me as much. It is good to know, but it I couldn't care less, to be honest. But one of the main reasons I did, because I wanted to be we were talking about other stuff after you know that during that rest time because I had one or two minutes rest in between. And he checks his own time. The only thing that he has to do, tell me the time. And then on the third time, third one that I asked, he said, Mo, you should buy your own garment. And in all honesty, the thing that was going into my head that I want to give you a chance to help me. And you feel good, and we have a conversation. It is a kind of a help that you know what, hey, it's important to you, I'm gonna give you that. You know, okay, this was our you know, time. That was your gut reaction? To be no, no, it's it was really genuine, it was what I was saying, because I wanted to have a conversation with him, that the conversation is a bit meaningful. I don't know, meaningful, but you know, something that was is of value. Be what we are talking, we are talking, and he checks his time. The only thing that he has to say, and by the way, for the people that they run, it was around three minutes and fifty seconds, so it was not that bad or the 1K. Just to impress the writers.
SPEAKER_00The kind of thing that the the first thing when you're telling that, and you're saying that when he says, Hey, you should get your own. Um, the first thing that went through my mind was almost like not offensive, but kind of like, oh, like, yeah, yeah, I guess I should get my own, but like for this little bit, like, like what's the big deal? I I would be more like I can't even put the words to it. I don't really know what it would be just kind of like offended that the guy's being a dick.
SPEAKER_03I I didn't find it.
SPEAKER_00It wouldn't, it wouldn't be my gut reaction, it wouldn't be like, hey, I'm giving you the opportunity to help me.
SPEAKER_03As a matter of fact, you know, this is what I was thinking that I I made a mistake because I brought up the friend and she said, You should have taken it further, and I realized she was right. And further, what do you mean? Yeah, further. For example, I could have said, hey, buddy, or or at the time or afterwards. You know, but the reason I was asking, I was hoping that, for example, we have a conversation, because we are we are talking. We are talking in in the middle. Yeah, yeah, but that it gives you a chance to really help me out. Yes, I can go buy a garment. But this uh but you know, by anyway, if I had brought up the conversation with him, maybe it would have clarified, you know, my point of view, regardless of he would buy into it or not, that I'm trying to give you a chance to help me so that even you feel better. But I didn't do that, so it was a flaw on my end. I could have done that.
SPEAKER_00Wasn't the more the thing is that the time really doesn't matter to you? It's just that's why you don't you don't have one and he had one, so you just thought you'd ask. That's just correct.
SPEAKER_03Again, as I said, I was doing this in order to give him to make him feel better. To help. Remember, you help somebody, you feel better. I guess.
SPEAKER_00I guess. It's a small sorry, no, no, no, not that I guess like I understand that. But in the context of your story, like was that was that what you thought of afterwards or at the time were you thinking?
SPEAKER_03At the time. Honestly, I was asking primarily because I wanted to give him an opportunity because I wanted to get close with him. That was another thing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03You know, okay, and then it just gives us a bit of a you know, it's not just a surface talk. Oh, how is the Vedder? Oh, nice Vedder. Yeah, you want to start more of a conversation. That's correct. Okay, but he shut it down so you. These behaviors are the ones that they don't let you feel better. That is exactly what I'm saying. There are these small things that they make all the difference. That if you take the opportunity, and now of course some people they can come and say that, oh, there are some people that they take advantage of you and they ask for help. You know what? I understand that. Again, I'm talking in general. You know, this is not taking advantage of each other. It is just a giving hand without losing, you know. But it's just a good thing. But he missed that. And I I'm going back to this. Uh uh, to the best of my knowledge, and they say that, they say that, you know, depression and anxiety is more of a Western world and the rich countries, not as much in the poor countries. And I believe, and I believe this is said too, one of the very main reasons for it is because in the rich countries we can be independent. And that independence, maybe some of us we enjoy the complete independence. But the bad part of that independence is that when we lose that codependence that, or we offer help or we ask for help, which these are the things that they deepen a relationship. And because of that, we don't have as much. And in the Western world, again, I'm generalizing, in the richer countries in general, because of that, especially in the new generation, they're so careful about, oh, can I ask this? Or can I how can I put it? The stars should be lined up well before I put the right words. That how I can ask this, that I don't come offensive or I don't come um, I don't know, demanding, or I don't come across this place. Just say it. Just say it. Don't worry about that. This is exactly where I'm going with this. That this is you we think so much about some stuff that's just amazing. So, for example, as I said, for this uh trip that you are going, I simply ask, hey, can I catch a ride with you? And myself, I hadn't done it. I should tell you that. Honestly, I wouldn't have done it till I started thinking about it. I said, God damn it, I'm giving a speech and I'm not practicing it. So I started going back to that. That no, I'm gonna ask. And they feel a lot more comfortable to ask for help, and they hopefully I make people comfortable to come and ask from for help from me. And again, I'm aware that you're not to get, you know, take advantage of others not as well, not to be taken advantage of. But remember again, in general, people are not doing that. Most of the time, we are not doing that. Right. There are few and far in between, but most of the time we are careful. So my advice is this just go ask. For the simple thing, just ask. And if you make that change, then it becomes uh easier that to ask for the you know second and the third thing, as well as if somebody asks you for help, don't look at it as a bad thing. It's a good thing, it's your opportunity to help somebody and feel good. So if the view changes, the value system changes, then we will do it a lot better. So again, these are opportunities. So are you convinced? Are you gonna trim my bank? I had it trimmed just recently, so I'm good for that.
SPEAKER_00Now I kind of feel like I have to. But I understand what you're saying though, about um not wind. I I don't want to ask for help a lot. I've struggled with that as well.
SPEAKER_03This is exactly I even I said I became like this. I became like this since I have come to Canada for the past because myself I thought, oh my god. And sometimes I have been told that, well, you can do that on your own. Yes, I can, but I won't. And I want you to, if you need help, to ask me, give me that opportunity, give me that opportunity that I give you a hand in some stuff. And we talk about all these things, but it's all talks, and you don't take the action for vulnerability. It has become innovative that if you're not feeling good, you cannot talk to your friend. You have to call 1-800, I'm not feeling good. If you want to trim your back, don't ask your friends, call 1-800, trim my back. There's a 1-800 for any damn thing. And I understand when it comes to the professional part of it, I understand. I'm very much into that. That ask somebody who knows if it's professional. But some of the things are not. Sometimes it's just you need somebody there. That's all you need, and be comfortable to ask. And a lot of time, as a matter of fact, is this that we ourselves, we are the ones that you are not initiating it, and the fault goes on us. Because sometimes when you say talking about these things, very frequently people do that as if you're not one of the people. Then who are you? Yeah, yeah, people.
SPEAKER_00That's funny.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, we and we do this very commonly. As a guilty as charged person, I have done that, I was about to do that, but I'm changing it. And I'm really gonna be more um uh probably I will do this more. That if I need help of a certain type, I would just ask very easily. If I'm not, you know, I want somebody's you know, attention, I would just ask for it simply that you know, even I want you to, why didn't you invite me for that? Do you want me to do this? You know, invite me for supper, you know.
SPEAKER_04Or I will bring my food, but you know what? Muhammad wants free food, everybody. Remember, I'm vegetarian by dark.
SPEAKER_03Don't mess that up. But again, the moral of the story at the end is this be comfortable to ask for help, and be comfortable and make people comfortable to ask for help from you and offer it. Let's do that. It's okay, it makes life a lot better. You don't have to worry about your words, the timing, and lining up the stars before you want to say something, and is it gonna come across right or wrong? Just don't worry, just do the damn thing. Even if you screw up, that's how you learn. It's okay. Okay, it's okay. Let's just do that. Anyway, again, thanks for listening. As always, the best way to get a hold of us is by email at info at umlifeworkshop.ca. And again, please check the website. You know, you will get um some of the highlights. I write them there, and the questions of any um episode. I normally put it right in the uh uh form there, you know, that in case you forget what was the question. And please go ahead. And the question for this episode is go ask your friend that if they would trim your back if you're hairy, or would you trim their back if they are hairy? Or would you buy your own air compressor just to use it once in a year? If you were a man, you'd have your own air compressor. Look at that again in a man.
SPEAKER_04Here we go. Obviously, this didn't work. We should talk about this a bit more. Oh my god, you ruined it there. No, no, that's awesome. I know, I know you're just kidding. But you know what? Again, remember life is simple, we make it complicated. Take care, guys. Bye bye.