S1E10 Relationships

When starting a relationship, it is important to be as honest as possible with yourself and the other party regarding your expectations of the relationship. Even if this is the case, over time we genuinely change our expectations. Since over years as we develop our own identity, we normally but not always, grow apart more than we grow closer to one another.

We get in a relationship for different reasons, e.g. financial reasons, sex, having a family, having a trusted friend, a travel partner, companionship, and so on. Over the years these might change e.g. not wanting more children, or the financial help, wanting other people for companionship. Simply put, our needs change. I believe relationships lasts because of our "needs". As our needs become less, relationships may weaken. Of course there are external factors as well such as culture, society expectations, religion.  

Don't be the Blockbuster, accept the reality and facts of life and move with it. You can't fight reality and facts

Break ups don't have to be hard, we make them hard and the law makes it difficult. Life will be easier to accept the change and move on. Look forward to the excitement ahead, and do not regret the past. 
Remember that "change" is exciting, that is why we do not want to repeat our past 5 yrs of lives and at the same time do not want to skip the next 5 yrs. 

In any war/fight both parties lose, one party more than the other, and in any working together/cooperation both parties gain, one party more than the other

Change the way you feel by changing the way you think. The excitement of what life has ahead of us makes life interesting while thinking of the past makes us stay stagnant and rot.

Any relationship normally last because of a "need and not want". And as we get to be more independent, relationships weaken. 

For safety reasons, no questions for this episode :)

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

Welcome to Life Workshop, where we discuss the forgotten basics. And here we go again, Mo and Bo, your most favorite host and co-host. Hello. So today's topic is relationship. Oh fun. So the question for you is how did you get, you know, how did you find the women that you wanted to be for?

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Well, I guess it all started. It all started. Well, it would have been in school, obviously. That's where I would have first met people. And then after that, um going out with friends and then meeting people through other friends. That's how that was done.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

And of course we are talking about like 20 years ago. Yes. We don't want to guess how old you are.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

Yeah, yeah, let's not talk about that. Yeah, that and then sometimes I would just say hello. You know, you would see somebody who was who who was pretty or seemed interesting, and you just say hello, and you just have a conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Would you like to have my number?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Well, that comes eventually, but you know. Um, but that takes a lot of courage to do that. So um and then obviously um online um dating sites as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

So have you done that too. Do you do this swipe right, swipe left?

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Uh I did I did that. Um that never really went anywhere that specific type. Like do you know why? Well, probably because I'm not attractive. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

I don't I don't know. No, I think you're a good looking guy, of course, but you know, and now when it comes to I I was expecting something else.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

It was more on like um say like sites that are more um inclusive is that uh that were more successful for me. Like my my um the current my girlfriend now we met on online. So I mean, yeah, it has a place, but the whole Tinder swipe, swipe, swipe, that never really went anywhere for me.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Actually, I I yeah, I'm not too sure how far that goes. Uh especially when you do swipe right, swipe left, you know, what do you know? You just see a face normally, just a picture. Yeah. And you don't even know how good it is if it has been, you know, how new it is, if it is really a real thing. But and um, yeah, it it just uh uh normally say that when it comes to that part, you know, it has become very superficial. And you know, if really somebody is looking just for um, you know, having a good time just for something quick or something, sure it might work. But for something serious relationship, I'm not too sure about that one. I mean it can work, but it is like a lottery ticket that you can win the lottery ticket. But as a rule, I don't know if that's the best way. But the unfortunate thing is that we are kind of hooked into it. Even when you say that, even myself, for example, I have been online and I go for the looks first. Of course, that is the first thing that you see.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Well, that's everyone does that. Correct. And then after some like say, Oh, you're shallow, but I mean, that's what those are. Like, let's be real, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I should say this too. I have a friend of mine that he went on an um um online site, and you know, he didn't he never asked for a picture, he didn't see the person, and that was his thing that you know he didn't want to know because he didn't want that to affect him. Of course, that's it.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

I should say that's a really mature attitude in a way. Again, it's I'm not it's a way, it's a way, it's a way, but again, did it work for him?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Not the best. Well, again, it didn't work, but but I'm not saying this is it's good or bad. But I I should tell you this. I remember my dad when I was younger, he said, Mo, if you want to get married, make sure to marry a beautiful woman. Because if she turns out to become a bitch, at least she's beautiful, otherwise you're losing both ways. Oh no, so it was superficial even then, just to be clear, you know, for some of the things. But actually, before I go too far, I want just to kind of briefly go through the history of this relationship because sometimes we think that why the past relationships they work better than they do now, which is true. For example, we see our grandparents' parents, you know, they were together for the longer time, but the relationships nowadays it doesn't last any uh any length. So, one of the things to best of my knowledge, actually, and I have studied this by the way, I don't come up on things with my on my own. In the past, of course, people married because they had to. You know, we didn't have gays and lesbians, that was not a thing, like in Iran, we don't have gays and lesbians. That is Ahmadinejad said that. But, anyways, um uh so people they would just marry, that was the thing that you would do, and really I don't think even they were looking that much for the beauty as much, they were just looking because they need to have a wife or a husband, and everybody's job was very well written and known by the society, and then you would have children because the children are your future, you know, retirement plan and protection, and because of that, they wanted more to have boys that are rough and tough, and they can fight and protect you. So, this was the set of thought in a very basic way, and because it was based on the need, that the need never got met. They would never come over that need. The need was they want to survive, they want to eat, they want to uh save themselves against uh other people, as well as you know, when they are older, somebody protects them. So those needs lasted. And because of that, the relationship lasted too. Really, they didn't have much high expectation of each other, to best of my knowledge. Then, as the years went by, as we got to know, you know, to have a better economy and you know, things started to evolve. Then I believe by mid-1800 the concept of loving your espouse became a thing. So that became a requirement now. Before I don't think so. This is how it went in general, of course, generally, yeah. And we had this conversation for a friend, then she said she said so that they didn't love their uh espouse. I said that was not a thing, no, not much. To best of my knowledge, not I'm I'm not that old.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Well, that makes me sad. That's not good.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Oh, that breaks my heart. Get over it. That is how it was. Okay, because they didn't have expectation. Remember that the expectation was completely different. The expectations were set so low that they wouldn't get disappointed that much. You know, it and again, um it's not right. Don't take me wrong. I'm not saying it's just I'm talking about the facts that they happened to, best of my knowledge. That you know, it was just they had low expectations, that was it. But then when it came to mid-1800, the concept of you know, you should uh you know love your spouse or something became more popular, and then people started faking it a little bit. And normally I say in the society, I don't know why this bugs me, that it's like a it's a like a uh pendulum, it goes from one extreme to the other extreme. We don't think about it in a realistic and practical way, and that is what I'm trying to do. It has been Hollywood for the ever that you go from one end to the other. And for example, the concept now is start loving your love, you know, spouse became a thing. And then they push it. And then as the years have gone by, we realize that come on, you know, yes, you do love them normally. That is one of the sources when you get together, but you know what, the honeymoon gets over, you know, fades away. And sometimes it lasts, sometime, you know, but uh as we know, most of the time it doesn't. Then it goes to a different stage, it becomes a survival mode. That we are just there. Now we just put up with each other, and sometimes we can't even put up with each other, then we break up. And then, of course, then the rules was you know, years ago that the court system at one point was more in favor of the men, and then they swang the other way, became in favor of women, and that they make the divorces horrible, and then because of that, we think that, for example, breakups are hard on children, which they are, because we make them, because the law makes it, otherwise, it doesn't have to be. But anyway, so this has been that way. Now, as the years go by, at this stage, we are at a stage that I mean, at least this is what I see. Very frequently, you know, our couples they have realized that they have some something in common or sometimes they don't. And then what they have, they have male or female friends, you know, uh in their lives, and personally encourage it. My my uh my my previous you know relationship, every time I would, you know, actually encourage my you know, girlfriends to to have other guys in your life, you know, be friends with them is just fine. Of course, you kind of have an expectation that where the line is. And uh, as long as you are you know in an agreement, it's a good thing because for somebody, for example, somehow hear this, you know, that I find my uh spouse to be my best friend, my confidant, my this and that. Are you kidding me? How do you find that person? You know, uh it might be at the beginning, it might happen, but again, the honeymoon will be over very soon. And then as we grow, as the years go by, we grow often apart, we become more ourselves, we develop more identity, which it separates us more often than brings us together. And so the concept of breakup will happen more often, which is happening. Now it is that how can we handle that in a civil manner that nobody or at least with least harm is it good to break up? Sometimes it is. In general, you know, if you don't have to, sure. But if it happens, then it happens. We give it a bad connotation in some societies. Of course, they have given it a lot of bad combined worse combination connotation in here is not as bad. And then because of the way that we react to it and the way that sometimes the law does that, especially if there are children or obviously you know, financial thing involved, then they make it so terrible that a lot of people they don't want to get into the relationship to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 11:38

Yeah, I've seen a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Yes, that you become really careful because I don't want to do that. So because if I do, the consequences are hard. Right. But if we would take it a bit easier, actually life is good. And if we accept the fact that it's okay, if we have different personalities, if we grow a bit apart, it's okay. But if you break up or you stay together, you know, it doesn't matter the decision that you make, it can be done in a very respectful manner, very fair manner, so that we are open to the next relationship. Anyway, that is how I see it. But now back to this new version that now, for example, I said swipe right and swipe left. This is the so we just go based on the list, and very this is the unfortunate part that I mean I have seen this personally, and I'm sure you have too, that the pictures that they're on the online, they're not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

And then you you meet you always put out the best picture of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

The point is that two weeks after you see them and say, What the hell happened to you over these past two weeks? Which I don't know, when people do that, what do you expect to see? And I'm talking about the guys and girls. Yes, we are two guys talking now, we are talking about women, but I'm talking, you know, either way.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

So I've I've heard a lot of more stories about that coming from women. Like I never there was that was very rare. If you if you saw someone's picture online, then you went on a date and they would look different or or or a lot different. They would usually look pretty much the same, you know. But I heard I've heard a lot more stories about women's stories about guys being different, more so than than women, than my own experience.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

I should say, I have heard that I look better in person than in picture. I'm kidding. I just made that up to improve my rating. But again, generally, for example, when we do that, that you know, we are trying to give a persona that is not there, it's gonna show up. And then then, for example, even the things that we write about ourselves sometimes is not for the most part is true. For the most part, I think people are genuine. But you know, if yeah, if if you just put something up, you know, it's not you know, it it the honeymoon will be over, it's gonna show. And because of that, some people they become so negative, they go on dates and then, or for example, they start dating somebody and then it fails. Why? Because the real person is gonna show.

SPEAKER_01 14:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

And if you haven't been clear, and then one of the biggest problems, actually, I would say, is this that that I mean, I'm not doing a good job of that myself. That if we set the expectations right, that you know what is what do you expect in a relationship to begin with. Right. That you know, yeah, what is the relationship that you have? Of course, different stages of life, obviously it's going to be different too. But if we don't have the proper expectations, or we are not clear for of ourselves, and sometimes genuinely we are not clear, and things can change. But again, you just if you just from the get-go, you do your best to be clear, obviously that helps. And again, as I said, even when relationships start again, as the years go by, or you know, time passes, then we change. And sometimes those expectations change. So it's a good idea to revisit the expectations again. All these things said, I'm talking as if I'm a very expert. Don't take my advice for some of this stuff. I don't offer it anyways. But you know, so the moral of the story is this. I think if I wanted to make it very you know brief, is really it's better to be as clear as possible. Once with yourself, and then and then the second thing is with the other party. So, for example, putting a picture that is not yours a few years before, or you know, all you know made-up pictures, you know, obviously it's not gonna work, right? It's just a matter of time. Then when it comes to expectation, to really be clear, what do you want in a relationship? And again, even although you're very clear sometime, you know, again those things this change. So as the years go by, to really think and revisit those expectations, and then if the expectations now they don't match anymore, it is good enough reason to break up. Make the breakup a right one. What do you mean a right one? Basically, we don't have to hurt each other, we don't have to make life difficult for each other, and unfortunately, the legal system does it. The legal system makes the breakups a lot harder. And you it partly because they look at breakup as a bad thing. I think you know, for example, in some religious countries that uh divorce is a very bad word to begin with, but you cannot prevent it. These are the facts of life. You cannot you cannot fight them. They should accept them and move on with them. It is like you know, when the online um shops came along, blockbuster it was that you know was trying to avoid it and then got busted. You cannot fight the reality. It is happening, accept it, move on with it. Right. If you want to stay your way, it just doesn't work. Now, when it comes to relationship and the concept of you know breakups, is the same thing. We come up with stuff and the breaks up, as I said, in some you know, countries they make it very difficult. I know that, for example, in Iran it was, it was, and it was very uncommon. I believe it is a lot more common now. But in here, as I said, the legal system made it very difficult, especially if the children were involved, that they would favor one party more than the other. And that doesn't go well. If it is unfair, it's unfair, period. Both parties will both party will lose, one party more. Norma says that in any war or any fight, both parties will lose. One party more. And in working together, both parties win, one party more. You know, so if we just change that attitude, the legal system would become more appropriate to accept the fact that you know these things happen. Now I can make it the safest way, and that is why I make it harder, and then they become harder. One parent uses the children versus the other one, and then they screw up the life of the child, too, for different reasons. And then, as I said, everybody loses. And no, breakups are not hard. We make them hard. That's exactly where I'm going with these things. Is it a good experience? No. But a lot of times change is not good. Change is hard. I would say I wouldn't say hard. I consider change is a challenge. Did you just say that change is not good? No, no, that's not what I said. Sorry. That's not what I meant. If I said it, uh oops. I meant change is normally considered as a hard thing. So it, but we I would look at it as change is a challenge. And sometime now in a relationship, if that change happens, if we just change our views about it. You know, it's a yes, for example, if we want a relationship, especially if, for example, you you want to be in a relationship but the other party doesn't. Well, yeah, it hurts a little bit. But you know what? Look forward as you know what's gonna happen next. And let it be a very good breakup. And it's okay. As a the view, if it changes, a lot of things do you know fall in place properly. Yeah. And then we accept the fact that breaks up okay, you know, this is a nature really is a natural thing. And then, you know, of course, I should say this myself when I was leaving Iran, um, God knows, lots of years ago. My my mom was worried that you know, I'm single, and what's gonna happen if you get sick? Who's gonna be there to take care of you? Yeah, I said, what makes you think I'm gonna get sick and she's gonna be helping me? Maybe she gets sick, then I have to help her. I said, How did you come up with this conclusion?

SPEAKER_01 20:25

I guess.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

And how do you know both of us we are gonna be there to begin with? One of us might not be dead. I'm gonna worry about this for when the time comes. I mean, you have forecast some stuff, and then how would I do that personally? By having a good circle of friends, and I understand friends they will not replace that relationship completely. But I don't know. Actually, again, it's a view that we have. It can. That is where I'm going with all these things. It's just a view that we have that we make relationships should be this. We have to have children, it's a very uh you know, traditional thing that we have to add. Of course, I know that this is our changing in the new generation, but the breaks up are okay. You can be friends, it can be very much respectful and look at it as a challenge and move on.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

I guess it can be, but you know, when you say that they're easy and everything, I mean feelings are involved too, you know. And how, like I mean to say too much here, but I mean um you know, sometimes they don't go so well. You know, like you're saying, I'm very glad because of feelings and emotion and sometimes things that you don't even know until it happens. And then like you're saying make these things make them good or something. What would you what would you say? Make them make them not not or make make them simple. Yeah, because people people can get crushed like emotionally.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Actually, this is exactly this is what I'm going. Remember, I have said this before. For the way you think decides the way you feel. So if you change your way of thinking, the feeling will change. That is exactly what I'm trying to say. And yes, you get crushed because the way of thinking is different. If you start thinking differently, you know what, for example, okay, she wanted to part away for whatever reason, not that's because I'm a bad person or something. If I'm a bad person, there is something wrong with me, then I'm gonna work on it to make it better that I don't do that again.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

But, and thanks for bringing that up, for example. But if she wants to leave for whatever reason, then that's okay. Because the reason I'm bringing this up because a buddy of mine actually, his wife just left him recently, and you know, he was a kind of crush, and then we had a conversation about this, and as a matter of fact, he mentioned said that he feels a little bit of a relief. Because you just change your way of thinking, that's all it is. Yes, I understand that it is crushing, but it's because we don't think right, and because when you discuss it with other people, again they give you a direction that they have your best interest in mind, but their best suck. That you know, if you change the way of thinking, it will be the feeling will change for sure. And things happen again. So the change normally is a bit of a I consider as a challenge, but some people they might consider it as a hard thing. But and I would again, instead of thinking about, oh my god, I lost this looking at the past, or she's leaving me, or this happened, or he's leaving me, whatever that it might be, instead of thinking about the past. I mean, you try to amend things if possible, but if it's not, then get over it. Then think about what future has for me. Now that excitement of the future, you know, can be there. It's just a view.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

And I'm not denying the facts. Yes, you have a build-up, a history, for example, especially this case, this buddy of one has a child. I understand, you know, it's a new thing that you have to now go home to a home that you're by yourself, and your child should go have to have, you know, something that shared parenting. I understand it is it is difficult. But again, if you change the view, you would make it less difficult and you would look with some excitement that what future has is holding for me. Remember in one of the episodes we talked about is that if you cannot change anything in your life, would you re would you like to repeat your past uh five years?

SPEAKER_01 24:31

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And the answer was the same thing, no. I said if I ask you, so do you like to skip five years and become five years from now?

unknown 24:38

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

No. But if five years from now I ask you exactly the same question, do you want to repeat your next five years? Again you would say no, most likely. Right. So what's the difference? Why do we want to be in present? It's because of often the excitement that we have in the future. That is where I'm going with this thing. So if we change our views instead of thinking about what happened, oh my god, she left me, or this happened, that happened, looking in the past, to look for future. Hey, you know what future is holding for me? That can change the view. I know when I say this, it may sound uh sound like you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Where the hell were you three three years ago? What's that? Where the hell were you three three three years ago?

SPEAKER_00 25:23

I was designing the house. I didn't have my podcast ready. But this is exactly where I'm going to say. If we change the view, in all honesty, it changes a lot of things. So, and I know when I say this thing again, I see some resistance at times and even but it's when you start to practice it, you will see that it changes your views, and it's a gradual thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

It's an easy thing to say, but sometimes it's a little bit harder to do, right? Especially if you have a tendency to fall into say despair or something, or it can be a little bit more than that. Remember the process of change. I see the value in what you're saying, though. Like think about differently, and you have to take, like you're saying, like the future you think about the future, you don't dwell in the in the past and think about what you can do and the opportunities versus the thing that's they're they're coming to you, right? Um, yeah. And if a person doesn't want to be with you, then like why would you be upset that and don't try to blame yourself, you know, that it is because of me.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Sometimes it's not you, sometimes it's them. And yeah, and if really if there is something wrong with you and you re agree that there is something wrong with you, then you decide that you want to fix it or not. Right. But you know, again, don't blame yourself as much. And if there is something to be blamed, fix it. Right. Because we again we have flaws and you accept it, you fix it, you move on.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Yeah, and sometimes a person's not gonna click with you, I guess, and they're in the world. Very, very true.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Very true, and to be honest, you know, sometimes it's even just imagine, for example, ourselves as friends, you know, we have a good time, but you know, and honestly, how much time can we spend together before we get sick of each other? So I don't know, seriously. Let's assume so. I don't know when the relationship they want to be in each other's face the whole time. That I don't understand. Again, back to uh the very simplest thing. I keep going back to this. Life is simple, we make it complicated. If we change the way we think, we change the way we feel. And yes, change happens at this four level. Once the first step, you accept it logically. The second step is you talk about it. Although you talk about it, you're not doing it yet. You're you're a teacher but not a doer. The third level is you start practicing it, but you're forcing yourself into practicing it. You force yourself into thinking what's gonna happen next, and I'm not gonna think about what happened in the past. And what I'm losing, I'm thinking what I'm gonna gain after this. So you just look at the positive part of it. And then the fourth thing is that when you have practiced it for some time, it becomes easy. Is it gonna happen just after this you know podcast? Somebody listens to it, I know everything happens, absolutely not. But you practice, practice, practice, and it will happen. Anyway, life is good. Remember that. So, again, I would love to hear you know what you guys have to say. And uh if there is any feedback, again, the best way to uh get a hold of us in here is info at umlifeworkshop.ca and again please check the website itself. And I would again love to hear you know if there are people that they can add to this to make the conversation a bit more mature and to come up with better examples, you know, that if you can help us, you know, mature the uh mature the subject, you know, and to talk about it a little bit in a different angle that probably I have missed. Again, uh love you guys and take care and hopefully you enjoyed this podcast. Take care. Bye, bye bye.