S1E12 Discrimination or Vetting?

It is important to know if it is discrimination, vetting, or that there has been no discrimination at all and instead it was our own perception that made this judgement. Sometimes we make wrong conclusions and try to fix a problem that doesn't exist. We then neglect to pay attention to the things that need it. This said, we can get discriminated against based on multiple reasons.

Discrimination is not selecting someone based on unrelated subjects to the vetting process. In order to avoid potentially discriminating against someone, I recommend visualizing a person whom you like exhibiting the same behaviors or having the same qualifications. Will you treat them the same?

Often we discriminate unintentionally, due to ignorance. Education is the key.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome to Life Workshop where we discuss the forgotten basics. Today's subject is one of the hot ones, discrimination or vetting. As we know that this is a kind of a top hot topic nowadays, and uh I want to just see that you know where we are at with this thing. But before we get started, I would like to ask, you know, that basically we need your help, you know, and please help us by sharing the you know this podcast in case you find it you know helpful. As well, I would really love to hear to see that if the podcast that we do, if it helps you to change your mind or to get your thinking, you know, really again to hear that you know it helps me to understand the effort that I'm putting into this, which is actually quite a bit, if it is worthwhile, which I hope it is, but I'm gonna keep going, but you know, your feedback would definitely get us going. But the moral of the story is with this um podcast on this topic, I would like to know to see that if discrimination is as often as we think it is, or is it overrated? And the reason that I'm bringing this up because it's very important to know where we are with this. We should have a right diagnosis, otherwise, we will have the best treatment for the right diagnosis, or for the wrong diagnosis, I should say. We should see uh what's the problem before we think of the solution. And if the problem is not as serious, then we are paying too much attention to it, or maybe there are other things that should pay attention that we are not paying as much attention. So, to get going, first of all, I would like to ask Bo. Oh, by the way, yeah, your most favorite host and co-host. Sorry, I forgot. Bo and Mo.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Hello, I just got going.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Okay. Um, but the question that I have is for Bo as well as you, the audience, I would like you to think about this for a moment. Have you, I mean, it's missing Bo as well as the audience to you know that have you guys been discriminated against and what basis?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Would you like to share what basis you all get discriminated against?

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Well, there's been, I mean, everyone gets discriminated against um in the world for something or other, right? Whether it's you know, your it could be your ethic class, a lot of the time it's that intelligence, ethic height, correct? Let's say these sorts of things. And I've I've I've seen that before, you know. I've heard a lot of uh only a white person. I've heard a lot of that.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Um you know. So how do you know you have been discriminated against those things?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

How do I know?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah, well, people tell you. So did they tell you that, for example, because of your height or because of your intelligence or because of I don't know the way you look? Have they told you that?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

Okay. Because I have asked the same question from a lot of people that you know, do you feel you're discriminated, you get discriminated? And everybody has a story, everybody gets discriminated in a way. Yeah, but when I ask them, can you prove it? Often they can't. And you know, of course, you would be probably one of the few that you just say that, you know, they have told you there are there is discrimination, but I think most of the time it is what we think, not what the other party thinks.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

That's true, for sure. It's a lot of the time it's in your own mind. That's correct. Yeah, definitely. But I mean, it's just uh it's just what happens.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Actually, you know, people some some of it actually doesn't happen. This is exactly where I'm going with that. For example, I had this lady that she said because she is overweight, she said that she gets discriminated against that. I said, How do you know that? And really she didn't, she it was more of her thoughts. And I have asked a lot of you know people of color, including myself, for example, that do you feel that you have been discriminated against? Very frequently you hear yes. Based on what? Color. How do you know that? Have you been told that? And at times it is, don't take me wrong, but I don't think it is as frequent as we say. So I would like the audience, you know, you guys, if you think you have been discriminated, is it really what you're thinking or somebody told you? You know, and probably is. I'm not that I'm not denying that there is discrimination, there is for sure. But it's not as frequent. That is what I'm trying to say. And there are ways to, you know, to figure that out, you know, to be able to see that you know, are we really discriminating against each other as much as we talk about? Or it's not as common. And the other question that I have again for everybody for Bo as well as the audience, of course, you guys, the audience can't answer it, so Bo, you try to answer this one. All right. Have you seen people discriminating against somebody else?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Have I seen it?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

How again, if you can give me an example.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

We have to talk about whether it's discrimination or not, because like we just said, everyone gets discriminated about for different different things, but we never really define what discrimination is gonna be in this point. But um, say people like making fun of other people, like saying some people will discriminate against others for say something as simple as liking country music versus metal, right? Of course, if you want to go that picky, then that goes forever. Exactly. Right? So where do you where do you stop or what are what what what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 5:57

Actually, I'm gonna get to this one that you know what do we call as discrimination? And now I'm gonna the third question again for everybody, audience, and you both, you answer it obviously. All right. Do you discriminate against others? Yep. On what basis normally? And I will answer to all of those myself.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

It could be many different different things. Usually it is between, like you say, if you talk to someone and you just don't like what they're talking about or an attitude they bring or something like that, that would be my form of discrimination, and that would just be like not being around those people anymore.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

This is not discrimination. Actually, this is exactly where I want to go. What is is it discrimination or is it a vetting process? And this vetting that I'm saying, if it comes to employment, as well as you know, finding friends, or you know, just yeah, just just to hang out with somebody.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Well, then what is when you're talking about discrimination, what are you even talking about, or are you talking more about stereotyping?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Uh, that is stereotyping will definitely lead to discrimination for sure. And I will get there. I'm gonna have some examples that I will see what you have to say, and then I'll let you know what I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Well, but back a couple episodes ago, right? When we were making fun of like big tough guy, whatever you're making the voice, and it was funny. Was and that was stereotyping, and then was that discrimination? No, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

You know, making fun of each other and being silly and this kind of thing is just fine. Okay. I said if you want to be that accurate, then nobody can talk. Right. And life becomes miserable because nobody can speak. I'm gonna go normally I just said that now I have to take it a bit further. To be sensitive is good, but sometimes when you're too sensitive, it's too far. And what I mean by that, normally, say for example, safety is a very important thing. When it comes to an aeroplane, for a plane to uh uh to fly, safety is very important, right? Because a mistake can be disastrous. But if you've applied the same level of sensitivity and safety that we have for a plane, for other cars, do you know what would happen? 95% of the cars should stay in home. And then it paralyzes everything. So safety is good, but at one point we are going too far with this. So when it comes to the concept of discrimination, if you want to consider that discrimination, then or we have we should not do that, then it will be nobody has to talk or can talk, and has to think 10 times before they say a word, and again it can be misunderstood, which paralyzes the whole thing. Or we should have just disregarded, no, that's okay, we can discriminate, which again is not correct. So let us stay real, that is where I'm going. The way I see discrimination is this this is the definition that I have. Discrimination is that if, for example, let's say you apply for a job, or you know, I want to, let's say for friends, you know, I want to be friends with. If you have the qualification for the job or the characteristic that I like to see in a friend, but simply because of the, or for example, some some of the things that you're not in control of, I would normally call them inherited identity, would be, for example, your color of a skin, your gender, your sexual orientation, your, I don't know, where you were born, the language, you know, your original language, or if you have an accent, the things that you can't control. If I write you off based on those things which has nothing to do with the job, then that becomes discrimination. Of course, if I want to, for example, hire somebody who has to speak proper English, and then, but you cannot speak English, then you don't qualify for the job. It's not against you, it's just we can't speak the proper English. So discrimination is when that those characteristics do not affect the job or the you know uh requirement to be a good friend, but we use them. We will get there. You know, when I put some examples, it will start to make more sense.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Oh, it makes sense. So basically I understand what you're saying, but in inherited identity and things that you can't control being what people judge you on.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So basically, we want to be uh again careful with those things. And do we do, for example, to answer to the same question, have I been discriminated? For sure, and I will bring it up in some examples. Do I see people getting discriminated? Yes, but nearly to be honest, not as much. In honesty, it's not that much. Do I discriminate against people? Absolutely, I do. The way I do it, I mean, it is not fair, but I'm gonna say this. For example, I go for this class that, you know, for uh exercise, that's a group, you know, exercise that we do, and there is a limit of set of weights. And there are these two ladies that they come and they, if they are there, they get there before me, they take them. One of them is prettier than the other one. So if the prettier one takes the weight, I'm not getting as irritated as the other one. That is the discrimination a little bit. A kind of. Of course, obviously I don't take any action on it, you know, I can't, and I don't. Yeah, but you know, it is a little bit of a favoritism, let's say, or disfavoritism, because favoritism is the opposite of the discrimination, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

So those kind of things we do all the time. For example, um, let's say, for me, some of the stuff are more important. For example, the way that somebody uh or takes care of himself physically or the way that they dress. So that is a preference that I have. But that's not inherited identity. That is correct. That is actually very good point. So that's something altogether different. So that you know, very good point. Yeah, it's not inherited, but I value, for example, those kind of things, which is you know, and then so because of that, if I see two different people, I normally like to get closer to the one who again take care of their physique as well as is it fair or not? That's a different story. Um, but you know, um I get more favoritism, you know, I I I'm more inclined to be with those people. So again, discrimination is a bit different. Discrimination, and I'm gonna bring up some examples to see um if it's discrimination or not.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

That's interesting because now I have to rethink answers. Like, you know, like when you ask, do I discriminate and against those things? I want to say, well, yes, but I can't think of any times where I have. This is exactly where I'm going.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

So discrimination is not, is not as frequent as frequent as we say or we think. This is exactly what I'm trying to get at. Now I'm gonna go back to a few things. For example, um, I go to the lawson in here for the uh for a workout. At one point we had to show our cards that if we are vaccinated or not. At one point, for example, I get in. The guy has seen me several times coming in, so he didn't ask for my card and they went in. And then another friend of mine came, but the guy didn't know this friend and asked him. He said that that's not fair. I said, Yes, it is. His job is just to find out if you are vaccinated or not. At one point, this was related, right? Uh needed.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

And he knows I am. So why should he do it again? It doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

You know, so I don't see that as a discrimination of any type or favoritism by any means. Again, during the terrorism and things, and myself uh, you know, being a male, with the name Mohammed, then I would go to states at the custom office. I had to go and answer some questions. This was something that if I was not a Muslim, and they did that to certain countries, it was not just the Muslims, it was some of, for example, I believe uh Serbian or something, uh, one of the East European countries, it was against them too, that they were on this watch list, whatever that they call it, and they would go for a certain age group and primarily male. So they would ask that you know where you're going when you're coming back and all that. So would you think is discrimination or not?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Maybe, but I mean like to a purpose, I guess, right? Because you have to take like with that climate or whatever, you'd have to take certain things into consideration, right? This is exactly personal. What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

You know personally, I don't find it discrimination. You know, it is what they do. Uh do they agree with the process of it? Not really. Especially because, for example, uh sometime when I wanted to fly back, the custom office closes at 7 p.m. at in Minneapolis. So my flight, for example, I would go from Vegas to this one case it happened, from Vegas to Minneapolis, but I get there past seven. So the custom office is closed and they have to go and report to them. And then I cut my flight and you know came back to Regina. The next time that they went, they said that if you do that, you can get into trouble. I said, you know what, to be honest, I do have all the respect for the rules and things, although I don't agree with this rule. But if it's going to be that way, I tend not to come to estates. So I made a choice. And they said, you know what, you can do this. There was another process that I could go and do that, but it was a lengthy process. For somebody who's a common traveler, they could do that. Then you don't have to do that. They didn't have to go to the custom office. But I didn't bother with that, and I didn't go to estates as much. But do I find that as a discrimination? No. It was something that they are doing. Do I agree with it? That's another story. That person I did that. Um, another thing is that, for example, when you go to uh again, being a Muslim, you know, uh, I mean, with a Muslim name, by the way, I'm a I'm an atheist, in case. Um, for example, when we go to the airport, you know, sometimes people they would ask if they would check me a bit further, or I would get a um, you know, a cavity search. I said, no. As a matter of fact, they have been very respectful. Never nothing has happened. Just once it happened that I want to do a self-check-in, and then I had to go and they said sorry, it was just because of the name. I said, school. So personally, I don't find it any problem. Um, but somebody can decide to get offended.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

Then another one, for example, when I came to Canada at the beginning, I worked in the hospital in Sanskritum. And um I can just tell you this from the get-go. Myself, I would not hire myself from 20 years ago. And the reason, again, it's not discrimination, I don't discriminate against myself, but I do discriminate against the behavior because at that time I was in a different, you know. Um that's that's the vetting though. Correct, exactly. So it's not discrimination, that's exactly where I'm going. It's a vetting process, yes. Okay. Of course, now that I brought this subject up, normally I say that. So what shall we do with these individuals that they don't fit in? Shall we exclude them or shall we somehow soften the rules and to get them in? This is another story for another night. But I believe we have to soften it and let them get in somehow. Get into we have to give them a chance. Get into what for example, workforce or or you know, when it comes to let's say you want to find friends to let them, you know, come into the community in a way. We don't want to exclude them as easy.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

But don't the people who don't fit into your community fit into another community that they would fit into better? And you can see the way that you define community, like running community, and that you can be a member of many different communities. So one person we we we already kind of discussed this before, how yeah you have different aspects. Right. So I mean, to say, well, I need to soften like soften to allow someone into my particular community or something, well, why maybe they don't belong there? Or maybe maybe they don't want to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

And no, that is fair enough. But what I'm trying to say is that sometimes do, for example, now statistically they say, if your name, let's say, is Ibrahim Abdul Rasim, I'm just making that up. Okay. Something like that, then you apply for a job, and then the chances are more for you to get a no answer or do you resume it doesn't get looked at, versus if your name is John Doe. So by simply changing the name.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

Well, I don't I don't think that you might want to use something else. I don't I don't think anyone's gonna do it. Maybe John Doe doesn't get the drop too.

unknown 18:46

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

But the moral of the story is that you know, yes, there is some discrimination that you know, by simply changing the name. So what what I'm trying to get at is say that we have to have some leniency, otherwise, the society in the in the big picture will lose more than they gain. So, but that's another story for another night. That's agreed, yeah. You know, another one that I would like to say, for example, this was some time ago. As you know, I had built this house in this new area, not new area, the area is old, but you know, the house is new and I'm new to the area. Once I told my neighbor that the other neighbor, I'm trying to make an eye contact and say hi, but you know, he's shying away. And then his response was he's racist. I said, How do you know that? Do you know the guy? He said no. I said, Has he talked to you? He said no. I said, Is he racist against you then? And all of them are white. I said, How I can draw that conclusion. My my first thought was, he's a shy guy. That's all. Can I be right or wrong? I don't know, too. But I'm not gonna call it discrimination or racism or something, right? So it is all in my head if I want, even if it is the fact that I said he's shy, I don't know. I don't have nothing to prove it or disapprove it.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

So yeah, some people don't like direct eye contact.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Yeah, or maybe doesn't want to talk to me. Yeah, yeah, and that's just fine. But again, I'm not gonna call it, you know, as I said, racism or something like that. And I don't think it is, but anyway. So what I'm trying to say, I keep going back to this thing that you know, racism is not as common as we think. Um, but you know, it happens in a lot of different aspects. I had a lady that you know, she said that after she went through the divorce, you know, uh, then her friends who are married, they don't call her in as much, that they don't invite her over. So that is another discrimination of a type. That's a that's a vetting.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

I don't know by your own definition. That is correct, and and I think inherited. Being married isn't an inherited identity or being single.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

That is, you know, that is correct. That is correct. And as I said, you know what, to be honest, you know, if they don't want you there, then maybe they were not the best friends to begin with. If they they are just writing you up, those things maybe they are writing you off as simple as the fact that you got divorced. Maybe they were not the best friends to begin with. Maybe you should have watched my podcast two years ago, which didn't exist. Oh no, then you would have picked the right ones.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Maybe they just didn't want to invite her to be included with a bunch of family stuff because they thought she'd be uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Again, we don't know any of these things. But again, um, often, you know, these things as I said, discrimination is not as frequent as we think. Now, I would like just to make it very quickly in here. And sometimes when they do discriminate, to be honest, it is simply it's not intentional, it is the mistakes that we make. For example, when um I should say a very good friend of mine, a very good friend of mine, she's one of my best friends actually. Um uh for example once she said I was a bit persistive on something. She said mo.

SPEAKER_00 22:06

What did you say? Persistent or persistety?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

No, persistive. Persistive. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

What?

SPEAKER_01 22:13

No, me, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Define that, please.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I was a bit persistive on something, and then she said mo. All Iranian are like this. Then I said, you know what? Yes. The other day there was this Iranian who was not persistive enough. So two of us, we caught him, caught him with his arms and legs, and we swang him. One, two, and three. We threw him in Iraq. We said, You are not persistive enough. I said, Are you kidding me? This is where I'm going with this thing. We had this conversation in another podcast that I said, if somebody makes a mistake, if we make a mistake, we say, Oh my god, that was just one mistake, not the whole me. If you make a mistake, I'll say, or somebody else, we say that it's the whole person is a mistake. It's not just one mistake, it's just the whole person. Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Now I remember. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

When it comes to the this kind of case scenarios, it becomes the whole nation and the whole continent and the whole race. Yeah. You know, it becomes so generalized. Did she do that intentionally? Absolutely not. She was just not aware. And we do this. Or for example, another friend of mine once she says, No, your house is a bit different, you know, and things. And then which part of it is Iranian? I said, to be honest, none of it. I don't know. You know, I just I I have left I left Iran years ago, and I'm have been in Canada for lots of years, and I just built it the way that I like it. But she kept insisting which part of it is Iranian? I said, the windows. What do you want me to do? Yeah. That said, I love this lady. She's an awesome cook, so she can tell me anything, and it's just fine as long as you give me some food.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

That it just that makes me think of a of something that, and maybe most of the audience can relate to this as well, or or not, I don't know. But like when I grew up, I grew up in the 90s, right? And we were always taught you judge a person by the content of their character, not the color of their skin and button or race or what whatever, right? And it seems to me like when you when you talk about that, like someone saying, Well, what part of your original culture is about, but they're not taking you into account as an individual, you know, or they don't want to, or something, right? When did things all go back to that? Because I thought we were coming out of that. Like everyone, you're not supposed to judge anyone and like except for their actions, right? You judge people by their actions, not by their by their cultural identity or or inherited identity, right? When did it fall? It feels like we're going backwards.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Um at times, yeah, for sure. For sure. At times we do. For example, as I said, if for example, uh in this case, Senor, I should say, for example, a white man uh from Canada does something different, we'd say that he did differently. They say what? If somebody they do something different, we say that person does that thing differently. Right. But if it is of a different culture, we say that the whole culture is doing it that way. Right. It becomes the whole culture, it's like the terrorism that it happened, all of a sudden, all the Muslims, 1.6 billion of them, are terrorists. And they get looked at that way. Because uh it's a sense of familiarity that we have, and then we just change it up. We just generalizing it in a very unreasonable way, right? And sometimes we do that. It's just because of the ignorance, in all honesty, it is all the matter of ignorance, and you know, we need a little bit of education around that. And don't take me wrong, this is not only done from the white man towards the immigrants. Oh, trust me, the immigrants does it to Canadian. I should I should tell you this case, I just remember this. I had one of my um somebody that I know, she's working at the hospital. She said that if she's she's an immigrant, she said that if she makes a mistake, of a different color, by the way, and different accent, she said that then if she makes a mistake, the Canadian, those people, this was her word, those people they pick on her a little bit more than if it was a white person making the same mistake. I said when you say those people, who do you exactly mean? Well, the Canadian. I said when you say Canadian, because we have the black Canadian, we have white Canadian, we have in-between Canadian, we have all of them. No, the white Canadian. I said, You mean all of them? Well, no. And then at the end, digging into it, she said no, just the older ladies. I said, so that is good. So I said, does the new generation do that too? He said, no, actually, they don't, the new the younger ones, they don't do as much. The older generation, which makes a kind of a sense because they have learned something differently and they are more picky. Uh are they doing it intentionally? I don't think so, to be honest. It's just that they have learned, and you know, they uh now they see a difference, and then they they kind of get scared or they get become more picky on that. Or it could just be because they're old.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

You know, like you were saying, it's half your yourself, what you think about it.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

But but they they do that towards her, and I believe that I have seen that the stuff, that they are more picky about her than a Canadian. Why? Because the Canadian has more similarity to them in group preference, whatever. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we do that a kind of lack of familiarity. But anyway, so when we discriminate, it's just that you know something we do a wrong correlation to. The wrong correlations are um, for example, I'm I'm I'm just this has nothing to do with nothing, but you know, it is a correlation. I had a patient of mine, one day she comes, she has some back problem, and I do a series of treatment basically. I do, let's say we call it mobilization. I do that, I put the rib back in place, and then I do ultrasound and tense, and then she feels quite a bit better. Then she says, the ultrasound helped me. I said, no. The most important one was what I did that I put the rib back in place. The second most part, most important was the tens machine because that increased the spasm and the cramping that you had in the area. Yes, the ultrasound helped too, but not as much as the two. But she didn't want to believe me.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

She didn't think that putting the rib back in place was uh was a big deal?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

She was more prone to believing that the the ultrasound machine helped us. She was so discriminating between my machines. The reason was because her friend had told her that the ultrasound is gonna cure you. So she comes with the preset thought that you know this is gonna make me better. Seldom it happens, by the way, she says seldom it happens, but you know, it did happen that you know basically they come and um anyways, it was discriminating between the treatment methods. So we do this very frequently that you know, for example, as I said, when we go for the sense of familiarity, if you're a little bit different than me, then I will generalize a bit easier on you. If you're more similar to me, you're closer to me, or like me, then your difference is only that difference, not the whole thing. But if you have more differences, that difference is the whole thing, and then afterwards I take you to the whole race, to the whole continent, to the whole, you know, just we generalize it a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, well that's like that, that's the theory of in-group preference, right? And then you you'll do that for like large-scale stereotyping, so you can kind of get a handle on something, right? And then you and then you deal with the individual like afterwards, right? That's all we're talking about here, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yes, yes. And one thing I want to say that you know, I want to uh get to the end of this thing, that you know, it's a one way to self-check, because often we don't mean to be, you know, to do wrong. Often we don't really.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Although some some sometimes we we need to do that, right? To like uh you have to discern um whether someone or something will be a threat or not. Uh you mean a vetting process? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

See, I'm vetting now. Okay. Okay. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

Okay, we we yes, we do separate, you know, we do group people, it's fair. But as long as it's done, as I said, based on non-inherited part that they are not related, they're not related to the I mean, if it is related to the what we want them, then that's fair. That is how we vet, you know. We decide you yay or nay. But if it has nothing to do with that process, then we are favorities or doing favoritism or we're doing disfavoritism, and both can go the wrong way, and both of us will hurt us. I will get to another one, you know, in the next probably podcast that I'm gonna have. But one one thing that I would normally suggest for self-checking for the discrimination is this to see are we really discriminating, is that if we can, for example, let's say somebody does something and we we we visualize the person in the picture of somebody that we like doing the same thing, and then to see are we discriminating that way? Am I clear on that? So to visualize the characters, but in a person that we like, in a with a different shape or different you know, things that we like, and then to see uh are we discriminating? Yeah, that's still betting. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We want to check, you know.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

If I say, well, say someone does something stupid, you know, and you know, then I say, Well, if if my friend did that, you know, that I I still think that's betting.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Okay, no, okay, let me go back to this. My pro uh my thing that I said, that we have this limited set of weights. That you know, if one of the girls takes it, I'm just okay with that. If the other one takes it, I get a little bit mad. Because one is prettier than the other one. So you have to just picture this. If the same behavior happens by somebody else whom you like, how would you feel? If the feeling changes, then you have been discriminating. If you do the same thing, you for the same behavior, I react the same way, then it's not discrimination. That's what I'm saying. Am I making sense there?

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Just let me get it straight in my mind then. So we so you're saying that you're saying don't don't um don't think of it like the example I said was like a friend. You're saying don't view it as like your friend of yours doing it, view it as a person who looks different doing it.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Not just friend, but anybody. Let's I'm gonna go back to this lady that I said of a different color, different race, different with an accent, that she said she gets picked on by the old white lady a bit more. Now, if the old white lady wants really to a self-check to see if the same behavior that this person exhibited, if it is exhibited by uh let's say a white lady or a white man, would she say the same thing? If the answer is yes, then you haven't been discriminating. You have the same behavior. Maybe you're just a person that you're hard on people, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

But if you are your action is gonna be different, or your reaction, I should say, if it's different, then in that case, probably you have been discriminating. So it is a one way of just to self-check that are we really had been fair or not.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

So at the end, the question that I have for everybody, I hope first of all, you have enjoyed the podcast, and again, I would love to hear from you guys, you know, and you know, the best way to get a hold of us is by email info at alpha oh sorry my god, info at lifeworkshop.ca. And the second thing, please visit the website. We I put a lot of this writing, this um uh a lot of the highlights, you know, I put it in a writing format on our YouTube as well as YouTube channel as well as the website itself, which is lifeworkshop.ca. But the question of the day is this What basis do you discriminate people against? And you know, do you? I most likely we do, because people who discriminate, they're not coming from the moon. It's just us. You discriminate against me, I do it against you, that is how it works. But what basis do we do that? And then do you need to do anything about that? That's the other question. Can you tell the difference if it's discrimination or vetting? Actually, that's as I said, yeah. And actually you have to understand, is it really discrimination or is it a vetting process? And the vetting process is not just for the, as I said, for job, it's for being friends and these things, and then for that one, as I said, do that self-check, change the shape of the person or the accent or the religion or whatever that you're to think you might be discriminating to something that you like and see if your answer stays the same or it changes. Okay. So thanks for listening, and hopefully uh we will be back with another episode. Thanks. Bye bye now.