S1E13 Discrimination: Solution

You can get some attention/look when you look different than the norm in the society. And that will be fixed as people get used to it by seeing more of it

Don't trust the first impression, 
Don't trust your intuition, be objective

Solution to lessen discrimination:
1. Be curious, not judgemental
2. Stranger is not danger, stranger is just a stranger, TILL you get to know them. Studies show when you get to know someone, there are 93% chances you get to like them
Most abuse is happening among the people we know not from the strangers Since we give them a trust that they don't deserve
Unknown is not scary, Unknown is another subject worth discovering, and can make life interesting and exciting
3. Remember it is just us on this planet

Remember the way you think dictates the way you feel.

Q: Which part do you need to improve on and what change are you making?
Q: Do you have friends of different backgrounds, see, sensuality, tattoo, religion, culture, country?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Welcome to Life Workshop, where we discuss the forgotten basics. This episode's uh topic is again discrimination, but what's the solution? So, again, as usual, we have your most favorite host and co-host, David. Oh my god, where did David come from?

unknown 0:32

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

I don't know who's David, but okay, Mo and Bo. Hi. Anyways, um, and yeah, we are gonna be discussing, as I said, about the discrimination. But before we get started, I would like to say again, um, uh, please, you know, to support us if you can share the podcast, you know, with your friends or online or somewhere, as well as you know, I would love to hear you know your feedback if uh uh what we discuss in here is helping you to change your mind or you know, just to improve on. Um again, the idea is not to agree with us, although if you do, most likely you're smarter and probably better looking too. But but the idea is just to create a conversation and really think about it, and this is how the process of change happens when we start thinking and changing something. But um, before we get started about the discrimination and the solution part of it, on the previous uh uh podcast, we talked about discrimination uh and vetting process. That you know, really how much is it that you know I I believe it's not as common as we think. It is a lot less common, especially I mean how I have seen it in Canada. Um and the reason that is important to know because we want to put enough, you know, focus on it the right way, and then we put the focus on the things that it should needs the attention. That you know, versus anyway, just to know where we we put our efforts in. But we get before we get going, you know, I would like to mention this though. Yes, discrimination party happens, and the good part of it is because of the media and how much attention they put on what. So when they put the attention on the bad of let's say a certain religion or a culture or a shape or a gender or um you know, something like that, then what do you see? You see that. And myself, for example, my name being Mohammed, you know, believe it or not, myself, if I would sue another Muslim, the first thing that would go into my mind that is he a terrorist? You know, at one point, really, it was like that. I'm not kidding you. Yeah. And I have heard the same thing, for example, from a black person that, you know, because of the media, that the child, you know, thinks of another black person as being a criminal. Because that is your forcing into the head. Actually, I should say this, this is a kind of interesting one. Uh so basically, the the what we the media does it, then we get familiar with, then that is what we tend to think, and doesn't matter who it is. Um, so for example, personally, before the year 2000, you know, at the early 2000 in Rujana, Saskatchewan, that we are the number of immigrants were very few. And then uh so I was a kind of a um obviously I am minority yet, but you know, I was even more minority at that point. And then um, if people would see me, because often people that they looked like me, primarily they were doctors. So if they would see me, the first question would be, are you a doctor? If they would come to know about my name, you know. So very frequently that question would come up. But after 2007, because of the rules that change changed, anyway, we we had a um, you know, influx of immigrants, uh, you know, that they came to this to Regina. And then and then once I had gone to the superstore, as a matter of fact, there was this old lady she saw me, and because now a lot of people of let's say my color or things, you know, they were working at superstore. So when she saw me, she asked me, Hey, can you get me that cart? So I said, Okay, so I went and just got her, you know. And then she asked me, Um, where can I find this? I said, Up, you know, I I don't work here. She said, Oh my god, I'm sorry. You know, she apologized for things. Now she thought that I work at Superstore. Up to a few years prior to that, if she would have seen me, most likely she would think I'm a doctor. And now she sees me, she thinks that I work at superstore. It's just a sense of familiarity, that's all it is. The same way that women, when they see another woman flying the plane, they panic. Is this oh yes, oh yes, very frequently it happens. So literally, because it is something that gets you know embedded in us and in everybody. So a lot of it has because of the focus that the media puts on it. I've never I've never heard that. Oh, yes, actually, very frequently you should watch some TED Talks. You should, yeah, yeah. I I have no very frequently, and you know, even some older ladies especially asked them. I guarantee you very frequently you see that. I had one older lady that she said this very much white lady. She said uh she was calling your people my people. She's a very funny lady, but yeah, yeah. She was she was telling, for example, if somebody of color, she would call them my people, but if they were white, it would be her people. That was exactly. And she's she's a very funny lady, and I love it, you know, because I want her to be as honest as possible. And then once I I asked her about you know women, that would you go to a mechanic who is a woman? She said, No, she wouldn't. And then, or if a pilot was a woman, she wouldn't. And then I said, so she said, Luke Mo, I am more of an old-fashioned. I believe a woman should do what a woman does does. I said, So what does a woman do? She said, This is her words, would be a good wife cooking, you know, and taking care of children. Something in this line, honestly. But no, no, it's okay. It's okay. You know, it is an old-fashioned thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

So it and put everyone in their little little box, and you're never allowed out of your earbox, man, woman, whatever. Thanks, thanks. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

And again, it is just it is again because of that, so it's a lot of it education. She's not a bad person. Actually, she felt hilarious. I would love to see her again. I really do. And she would make a lot of uh per se, let's say racist comments or this thing. I loved it because she was genuine about it. And and I anyway, I I was just fine with that. But what I'm trying to say is, you know, a lot of it is the focus that we put on, and you know, we we we we find it. And other than that, I will discuss it again afterwards. Be careful what you look for, you will find it. So if you look for differences, you will find it. You will never be disappointed. If you look for the similarities again, you will find it, you will get there. Now, so the media part and you know the attention that is put on something uh unfortunately makes us things differently. For example, this is very unfortunate that they don't show, for example, how many people of color or uh of women or I don't know, different sexual orientation, that the things that they are doing to make life a lot better, they normally don't talk about that and media doesn't show it. Then what happens, you think maybe those are not the best. And by criteria, this is very commonly in the scene that if you think of, let's say, a pilot, you would think of a man, gray hair, you know, in a certain type.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

So this is the picture that comes to your mind, and that is very unfortunate. It is something that is embedded in us. Okay, so that is one thing that I wanted to say. Another one wanted that, but uh, this is in the fact that, you know, so the some part of the resolution for discrimination that not to happen, maybe we should start highlighting, you know, the good things, not just the bad, and just be realistic, show the whole thing, not just to show the bad thing, you know, then uh show everything, you know, that you know, the things that you know others are doing and they're doing good stuff, then we would be more realistic about that. And it's not just affecting the white man, by the way, it affects everybody. Even I think if I see as a Muslim, I would think that, oh my god, he's gonna bomb me. You know, for some time it was really that way, I would not feel safe. And then um, but anyway, so that is one thing. But another one is sometimes that the overrate things, this is another one. I had this friend of mine who is a nurse, and she said that I asked her this about discrimination. She said, Yes, she sees discrimination. I said, so how? She said, for example, in the hospital chat divorce, if some certain people, you know, if they come that they are drug addict or something, they would not get the best treatment. They would get treated differently. Then I asked, what about if they were white and drug addict? Would they get a better treatment? Then she said, No. I said, then it's not discrimination. They are doing it against all of the drug addicts. It's not based on the race. If there is, it is based on based on the drug addict. Then she realized, yes, and it's very important to be careful to have the right words for it.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

And a lot of time be sensationalize things and we make it like a Hollywood to get attention. And sometimes, for example, even as immigrants, they don't get a job. I think they didn't give it to me because of my you know color of a skin. No, it was because of your qualification. So I have to make sure that, yeah. Then so uh and I'm not saying again this commission doesn't happen, not at all. But we have to be a little bit more objective. Does it happen and how frequent it is? And you know, then we know how to address it. Another thing is that, for example, when people they look different for any reason, they get a bit of a look. People see them. For example, if you see a Muslim lady with cover and these things, if it's not a very common in this part of the world, by default, you just get, you know, they get a look. Now that look can be demeaning or can be, you know, a bit the other way around, whatever that it might be, but it's a look that they get. It's just because of lack of familiarity. And again, the same way, if somebody goes in a Muslim society and not cover, again they will get a look. I mean, the same way now in a different token. For example, if a lady in here she comes with a lot very revealing, which people don't reveal as much, they will get a look. And sometimes the accompanying why do a look, but it is people don't do that that much.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Yeah, like you said, because it's not familiar, so it's it's an oddity, so people will look at it. It's like the people who put like face paint on or and do whatever, right? And then they and then they they they get mad because you're looking at them. So wow, what am I? How am I not supposed to look at you?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Exactly. And we look at you know, people if they look a bit out of norm for any reason. Doesn't matter if you can't a good thing or a bad thing. If somebody is really tall, you would look at them. If they are really short, you would look at them, if they are really masculine or fat, you know, overweight, you would look at them. It's just because it looks a bit out of norm. If you dress differently, you know, uh, you know, it is out of norm they look at you. You know, it is a normal thing, so get used to it. Actually, the funny thing is that for the first time when I left Iran, because Iran was had become religious after obviously the revolution, and then and I knew that by going to Dubai, you know, obviously it's a free country, and you know, people they they don't, I mean ladies they don't cover themselves. So I mean I was really kind of trying mentally to be ready for it. But as soon as I got off the plane in the in the um obviously airport, and then I see this very beautiful, attractive lady in a mini skirt and uh you know standard, and I was just looking at her, and after some time I realized my job was dropping. Honestly, but the reason is I hadn't seen that, it was just a sense of familiarity, as simple as that. So I want to be very realistic about this stuff that we do these things, so just to be to be real, you know, these things happen, so you get the attention, that is why um you you get the looks, but anyway, uh another thing that I want to say that uh, of course, as you can see, I don't have any question for you both this time. I'm just talking. Oh yay. As you remind me, I will I have one. But anyway, often the differences that I mean, that has been my observation, the differences that the they get highlighted is based on the culture, the way we do things versus the race or or I don't know, gender, or lots of other things, it overcomes that. At least for my case, it has been that. That you know, when you want to, and children have got it right. I should have had this um lady that uh has a daycare, she's very specialized actually in that. So children they have got it right. You know, they associate with other children when they are um at the same um um uh you know maturity level and another thing. It has nothing to do with anything else. You know, they don't really care about anything else. They care only that if they have something in common, you know, in the culturally. And uh in in in human you know, when we grow up, normally we are that way too. But some of us, some of us, you know, we tend to value something more than the other. And I will get into that in another episode. That you know, some of it is just real, is okay, for example, as I said for myself, it would be physical fitness and you know, uh primarily that and the way that they dress. That would be the highlight. I really don't care that much about other stuff. That would be more attractive. That when I don't know the person, when I get to know them, then that keeps changing. But anyway, as a general rule, as I had said in another podcast, too, don't trust the first impression. So when they say that, just don't trust it. It might be at different circumstances, you know, we are in different circumstances and I think differently, so or the other party might be. Um get to know the person, you know, a little bit more before you know decide making a decision. As well as you know, don't trust your intuition. Often they say that, I don't know about that. The intuition is a lot of feeling-wise, you know, you want to be more objective, and those intuitions keep changing. As I have said it in the past, I'm repeating myself the way you think dictates the way you feel. And you know, if you get to know the person, then you can be more objective, and then your feelings completely change. And this is one problem that when we treat each other like on Tinder with swipe right, swipe left, we go based on the looks, then the problem is we swipe left a lot of good candidates. Of course, uh Tinder is another story, but you know, in real life, you know, that when you want to have, let's say, or a uh or wanna have an employee or or you wanna have let's say friends, um you want to be a little bit more giving, you know, and not to trust just exactly what you see, you know, and get to know them a little bit more. Otherwise, you will lose a lot of good candidates in here. And you favor the other person for their some appearance thing, and then um the the the pool becomes a lot smaller, and then um and sometimes they prove you wrong. And anyway, so I would say again don't trust your intuition, don't trust um the first impression, just get to know people a little bit more before before again just making a decision. Um thing actually I should say that in and I had a patient of mine that um he's a very good guy, but I as far as I'm concerned, I would say not as as educated. Once he said that more because of you guys, especially again, it was several years ago during this terrorism thing, because of you guys, this country is like this, you know, has become bad. I said, so when you say you guys, just to be careful to be clear, you're talking about the Muslims. He said, Yeah. I said, so the non-Muslims are okay, but he had some issues with that too. I said, so anybody, anybody who didn't was not white, but he was not that clear, but I was trying really to understand. I said, so the country was better before, just to make sure that I'm understanding right, before it was better, and there was no specific uh you know disagreement and things before the people of color and Muslims come. He said yes. I said, to best of my knowledge, it was that you're Ukrainian, you're Polish, you're German, you're French, you're English, and they would discriminate that way, didn't they? Then he said yes, but it was not that bad. I said, Are you kidding me? Are you really serious? I said, this is the thing. When it's a bigger chief change, a difference comes, then the smaller difference we cover it. And in the actually, in in in in uh I have said in my uh TED talk to um the presidents uh of the country, uh especially United States, to get re-elected, one thing that they would do, they would cause a war. Because during war, people come together. Now it's just our nation versus another nation. So you leave the differences, and in that those case scenarios, the chance of re-election would be a lot higher. So what I'm trying to say is that and uh in order to unite something, you create a different enemy, you just create something up, and then all of a sudden you unite. Right. A bit more. So I said this is exactly what you're doing. Now the white man all of a sudden is all one against the non-white. All right. This is something like that has happened because that the non-white has come, then the uh they they think that it was awesome before. No, it was not. You know, every time, you know, if you focus on the differences, you will find it. If you focus on similarities, you will find it. So you just make the right choice. That's all I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

And I guess that's with any with any culture or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Uh it is all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Even immigrants, for example, very frequently immigrants they do a lot of discrimination. Actually, discrimination is done more based on lack of knowledge and education, and you will find it a lot more in less educated countries. Absolutely. Absolutely. And actually, maybe I'm glad you said this. And I have asked this from different people, and I know it for a fact. Discrimination is a lot more. Actually, one of the I believe the highest discrimination is done in Saudi Arabia. Yes, and I was in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, very much uh discriminative. It was based on the religion. So, yeah, absolutely. It is a it's a product of the lack of knowledge and ignorance, really. And in here it's not as bad as you know people think. It's a lot worse in a lot of places. Of course, that said, it does not mean we should not do anything about it, just to to clarify that, because once I said this, then a friend said that so it's not that bad, and he said, but it doesn't mean we should not do anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Right.

unknown 19:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

We have to, we, but but you know, we are a lot more advanced. But you know, it is a lot worse in some other countries. But now, then it comes to treatment part of it. Uh actually I wanted now to answer this question. Um do you have an answer that you know, how would you treat you know the the discrimination that wouldn't discriminate? You said something in China to it.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Yeah, um, I guess we we I I s I said it the last episode there. I I think to to treat it, right? You just need to just think or be taught the way that we were when we were we were kids that you judge people by the content of their character and their actions. And all the other things, all the like religious beliefs and skin color and cultural all those things don't really matter as much. You know, and and that that that's how I grew up and that's how all everyone that's just what we were we were taught when we were kids, and like I was saying, the world seems to be going backwards now and it's it's just it's just bizarre, but but but then again that could be just like you said, the media whipping things up, right? So because most of the people I know don't judge people like discriminatorily, it's more vetting like we we were talking about when I really started thinking about it, and it's like oh okay, but I think the only I think the only solution is just like like what I said, you just have to judge people by the by who by who they are individually. And sometimes that's a process of thinking, and then and it takes generations to do that.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, as a joke, sometimes, for example, we say those people, this people, but you know, it is it when it comes to serious thing, I think to be honest, most of the time people are good, and again, a lot of it just needs education, and as we get to mesh more, yeah, I think it feels just solves it on its own.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

And I don't think like making fun of stereotypes is is is just funny, it's just fun.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah, like the same way that we stereotype in lots of different ways, you know. For example, plumbers for their yeah, you know what you are talking about, but anyway, um so we do that all the time, and it's okay as long as in that sense, and you know everybody gets it, that's it's really more of a comedy. But one thing that I want said that they say if you want to do something, you want to teach something, you want to focus on what you want to be done versus something that should not be done. This is where I'm going. If I want to show you a new exercise, I'm a physical therapist, I want to show you an exercise. The best way is if I tell you the correct way and say that this is the correct way. That's it, and leave it there, and not talking about oh, don't do it. That way.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

You don't want to confuse people.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

That's correct. Because if I say don't do it that way, you're thinking on the wrong way. I get you thinking about that. For example, they say this is credit to Simon Sinek. He says, Downhill is here, you're going, you don't tell them, Oh, don't hit the trees, watch the trees. Because by doing that, you're watching the trees. You're trying not to hit the trees. Instead, you want to say, look for the path. You know, so you want to do that. So for discrimination, it's the same thing. Instead of talking about that, don't discriminate, maybe we should focus on how we can be united, how we can be more objective. Do we have this characteristic? Then we don't think about other stuff.

SPEAKER_02 22:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

So think about the thing that you need to do versus trying to avoid not thinking about other stuff. Even believe it or not, because of this podcast myself, I have been thinking a bit more about this stuff. Now I pay more attention to the skin color and to the acts and to the religion, to all the discriminative things. You know, I'm paying more attention. But again, you want to just be as I said, focused on the right thing to begin with. So, and then now I'm going to go back again. For the treatment, I would suggest a few ways that you know uh probably would be good. One is the root cause is to be curious when you see something different versus judgmental. So anything you see that you know is a bit different than you want to do or you have seen, and I'm talking about any aspect in the here now is about discrimination, but you know what? Just be more curious to see why people do the way that they do. And it doesn't mean that you agree with them, not at all, but it's just that to just to be more curious and don't judge them without knowing. So that is what be one of them. Two, we normally say that a stranger is danger. That's all, till you get to know them. And the problem with that is when you say a stranger danger, you it comes with a connotation that if somebody you know is not danger simply because you know them. Yeah, most of the child molestations, fraud, you know, uh, you know, a lot of bad things that they happen, they happen when it happens from the group that you know, not from the one that you don't know. Yeah, and the reason is because we do a wrong correlation. Again, I'm going back to this, that because we know the person, we give them the trust that they don't deserve. I should maybe share this. There was this person that I knew, she was trying to be close friends with me, and anyways, and I don't want to go too much into details, but and I was refusing because I knew her exactly because of the fact that I knew because I have been following this set of thoughts, because of the fact that I knew her, I did not want to be close to her, and the reason she would be somebody that if she could, she would find something wrong with you and she would use it against you. So some it's the fact that you know somebody doesn't make them good. That sense of familiarity does not mean correctness. That is what I'm trying to say. Okay, and because of that, sometimes with a behavior, even with behaviors, we become familiar. That's a familiar behavior, although it's wrong. And then on the same token, a stranger is not danger, a stranger is just a stranger. And when you get to know them, then you can decide and you know find out that is it really danger or no, maybe he's a good person. And again, it goes back to what I had said before. They say when you don't like somebody, get to know them. If you don't like them yet, get to know them more. And the chances of liking people after uh when you get to know them is 93%. I don't know who came up with this stat, but okay, that's that's where that comes from. Yeah, but it does kind of make sense though that you know when you get to know somebody, and normally, I mean, for example, for a question for you, Bo do you have friends that are a kind of jerks? And don't point at me by the way.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

Jeez, that's a little question. Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay, you know what? And hey, maybe maybe I'm the jerk sometimes. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Uh I didn't want to say break that to you, but yeah. But this is the thing the same person who is a jerk, but we stay as friends with because we know different aspects of them. But if they show that bad part of them to somebody else, they get written off completely. Yeah, this is where I'm going. So don't believe you don't trust your first impression, that is one of them. Or, for example, there was this friend of mine that you know he he said that Mo you should marry this girl, and you know, why? Because you know them, and I know her family. I said this is years ago. I said, Are you serious? That's how you just marry somebody because I know their family. Yeah, but anyways, again, so basically that there goes back in that to put the attention on the right thing and for example to be more objective. For example, if if somebody for again for the solution for the for the discrimination, really see the characteristic and then that what kind of a characteristic they have, and then if really you want to see that are you discriminative yourself, visualize them with a different shape or skin color or gender or something, and see do you still you know treat them the same way? For the most part, we do. For the most part, we are against the behavior versus versus the person in general. But just we want to just be a little bit more objective in that way. And sometimes if you are not, then we want to just begin by paying attention to that. And at the end, I would like to say this. Remember, it's just us. There is nobody else on this planet, it's just one small planet. I don't know if this occurs you. Sometimes I think of it like ants. When ants, you know, in colonies, they just go and sometimes on a breadcrumb, you know, they are fighting over that. It's just silly. And if somebody looks at us from up top, probably the aliens and Martians are looking at us from there. You know, it's just silly that we are fighting over some stuff in here with each other. It's just silly. Yeah. And you know, we can't we can't get along, you know, and that is just completely anyway. Uh and all of these things are to change the way we think. I'm hoping it this helps. Again, I keep going back. The way you think dictates the way you feel. At the end, I would like to um just throw this question which part do you need to improve on, and what change do you make in way of thinking, you know, when it comes to this discrimination part? That can you get over it? If you do. And you know, maybe you know, one of the things that we can do to get to know and to have friends of different colors, different genders, different sexual orientation, different religions, and those kind of things. When we get to know them, it keeps us a bit of a broader mind. Does it make sense? I was watching this documentary, I should say. There was this lady, she said this at the end of the documentary. To see different things, you need different eyes. Which was it stayed with me. It was a very interesting thing. And I think that is what she was trying to say. That sometimes, for example, we go on holidays, we go to tourist things here and there, and then to get to know another culture. But we have them all here, next to us, yeah, and then we don't tend to mix with them in here. We want to go find them somewhere else. It is kind of silly. Yeah, so and that would help us to broaden our mind. Anyway, I hope again you enjoyed this and uh hope you guys have a good one. We'll talk soon. Bye, bye.