S1E14 Inclusion: It's Just Us

We teach our children stranger danger,  Bad idea. Strangers are only strangers until you get to know them.

When we say we like someone, it does not equate to us trusting them, and vice versa disliking someone does not equate to not trusting them. People being trustworthy or not does not rely on liking them or not.

You can change your feelings and get to like someone e.g. by getting to know them but you can't make them trustworthy or good, if they are not.

As a general rule, feelings change, facts don't.

We don't often have bad people, people have bad ideas, which for the most part is fixable by education.

We often look for similarities and are scared of the difference. Although the unknown can be exciting and worth to get to know.

Be careful what you look for, good or bad, you will find it, you will never get disappointed.

When searching for differences or similarities in each other, it never stops. First you will find the more obvious ones, then you will find the less obvious ones.

We should stop saying "those people", and say "some of us".

When we say "us", we want to help and cooperate but when we say "those people" it brings a sense of hostility and fight.

We are on a small planet, but at times we behave like ants that fight over a small piece of bread crumb, when there is lot left for everyone.

We have differences, we have good and bad people, thieves and trustworthy, different cultures and religions and looks and more differences BUT we are living on one small planet. It is just "us".
 
Q: How do you feel when you say "us" vs " you people or my people"

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome to Life Workshop, where we discuss the forgotten basics. This episode is about inclusion. It's just us. There is no one else. So before I get started, I would like to just ask basically to mention this thing that we need your support and feedback. So please, you know, let us know. And again, the best way is by email at info at lifeworkshop.ca. And the second thing is that we really need your support so that you can support us by sharing the podcast or as well by uh subscribing to the channel on YouTube or the podcast, you know, platforms that are out there. Now that I got that off my chest, we have your most favorite uh host and co-host here, Bo and Mo. And uh here we go. Uh in the previous two episodes, we talked we talked about the discrimination. That I said the discrimination really is not happening as frequent. A lot of time is just we think there is discrimination, but not as frequent as we talk about it. And um so a lot of time is just our own thoughts that we think, or sometimes it's not really discrimination, it's simply a vetting process, a vetting process that you would do that towards anybody, regardless of you know whatever discriminative factor that one can have in their mind. And I would like to mention a few things before I get to the main topic. Normally we teach children stranger danger, and I say it's a very bad idea. A stranger is a stranger until we get to know them. We are a stranger to somebody else, and we are not bad people. I think we are not.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

I'm going to disagree to a point of that. Um, I I think that is a good thing to teach children that stranger is danger. Because you don't want, you know, you gotta be a little more careful with with kids. I think when you're an adult though and you still cling to that idea, that's dangerous. That's more like what you're talking about. But I I think teaching it to kids is fine. We should be teaching. Please teach your kids that stranger is danger.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Listen to the host, not the co-host. Okay. No, the one that I'm trying to, I appreciate what you're saying. Um, I'm not saying necessarily putting trust in them. If somebody a stranger comes and says that here, I'm gonna give you these to eat or something, or let me just go take you for a ride. Obviously, that's not what I'm talking about. That but the stranger is not necessarily a bad person, it's just a stranger. And because it's a stranger, you are limited on the things that you do, period. So, which covers what what I'm saying. But a stranger is not danger, it's just the stranger. That is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

Then so teach your kids stranger is stranger. That is it, but they can still yell and point.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

Now don't listen to you. Don't get into the van, kids. Yeah, don't do that. But because it has this connotation with it. If a stranger is danger, the connotation comes that if you know somebody, it's not danger. And that is exactly where a lot of problems happen. People that you know very frequently, I mean, most of the I have I brought this up before to child molestation, fraud, discrimination, you know, um uh treating each other badly. It happens from the people that we know. Less often is from people that we don't know. And it is because we go based on the feelings, not based on the facts. So I'm going back. A stranger is a stranger. So when somebody is a stranger, you don't put trust in them necessarily, period, till you get to know them. And the same way, if you know somebody to the level that you know them, you put trust in them. Just for the facts. Liking or disliking somebody does not equate to trusting them or not trusting them. And because of that, I'm going kind of further. Uh I had said in previous episodes too that, you know, for example, for friends, I personally say categorize your friends. For example, one friend is good for traveling, the other one for exercise, the other one to have fun, the other one to have a I don't know, uh, proper conversation, or to either want to come to your house, or you go to their house. And some they might have a few of the things. But there are sometimes some friends that, for example, I don't choose, let's say, my doctor or plumber or your uh I don't know, electrician just because they are my friends. They should prove to me that they are good first before I put my trust in them, right? Yeah, as I had said it before too, trust comes at two levels. You have my best intention in mind, but at the same time, your best doesn't suck. Here you go. You are listening, and that is very true, you know. So, what I'm trying to say is that so if you uh if you know somebody and you like them, that's a different story than putting trust in them. And this is exactly the trick that it is used, for example, by people that they want to get elected, which normally is politicians. They get to people to like them, they send you a picture of themselves with their nice family, that I'm such a nice guy, and these things, which has nothing to do with the job that you do.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah, or for example, myself, at one point I hired this um general contractor for the business that I was building, and that you know, the guy says that I'm a very good Christian man, not something in this line, that I'm a Christian man with family. I said, So, what does it have to do with construction? You know, it has nothing to do with that. Good for you, yeah, and good for the children and you know your wife, but what does it do for me? So we want to just make sure that we do not correlate things wrongly, and that happens very frequently that we do. So liking or not liking somebody does not equate trusting them or not trusting them. That's what I'm trying to say. Stick to the facts. You can, and Norma said that you can change your feelings, for example, to get to know uh to get to like somebody, but you cannot change the facts. So if somebody is not trustworthy, but you liking by you liking them doesn't make them trustworthy. If they are a bad, you know, doctor or electrician or a physio or whatever, they don't become good just because they know you. If they are cheating, you know, to uh and they're fraudulent towards other people, it doesn't mean because they are your friend and they like you, they're gonna be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:57

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

So that is what I'm trying to say. So the same way, now I'm gonna flip it the other way. If you don't like somebody, but they are trustworthy people, or they're good at what they do, and they are honest with what they do, but you don't like them for whatever reason. And that whatever reason can be their race and gender, sexual orientation, I don't know, religion, the food that they eat, doesn't matter, whatever it is. It has nothing to do with that. It has, you know, um it has to do that are they trustworthy? Are they good at what they do? If they are, that's all you need. And even if you want to become friends with them, if you get to know them, again, 93% chances are there that you get to like them. Even if you don't like them at the beginning for whatever reason, it's just a matter of getting to know them. Normally I say that myself, I'm a as a physical therapist. Sometimes when I have clients, if I like them, which normally, you know, most of my clients, I really like them. And most of them they like me too, by the way. But you know, I will do the same thing that if, for example, there is somebody that I, for whatever reason, I don't like. It doesn't affect, you know, on what I do. I do what I have to do. If I like them, I talk to them about other subjects. If I don't, I don't. That's all. But it will not affect what I do because that is the integrity that one has. Right. Yeah. And regardless of I like you or not like you, you know, I would do the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

So again, back to this. Uh you can change your feelings, but you cannot change the person, you cannot change the facts on somebody else. So be careful. And these are the elements that if we do, it this happens in employment, for example. If you want to employ somebody, again, you look for the objective part with regardless of other things that are not related to the employment. I would say, even we can go further with this, even in selecting friends, we can do the same thing. What do you need in that friend? For example, for as friends, they come again in different categories as far as I'm concerned, but you know, and then see that if they fit that, if they qualify for that, if they do, that's all you need. And then as you get to know them, chances are higher you will end up liking them. So, this is what I wanted to say, and that um um yeah, again, feelings change, facts don't. So just remember that. And if we think this way, the concept of discrimination doesn't come to existence to begin with.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

This is why I brought this conversation at the very beginning. If we think like this, uh it just there is no discrimination. As I had said at the very beginning podcast, you know, I said one of the principles don't make a mess, you don't have to kill in it up.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 9:44

If you think this way, there is no discrimination to begin with, so we don't need to talk about anything. But um, and remember, often we don't have bad people, we have bad ideas. And the way to fix it is education. So a lot of things that we do, it is just if we get educated when I say educated, I mean I don't mean by going to a school or high school or I don't know to university. I'm talking by being more open-minded and learning, for example, doing something like this thing to start thinking about you know the subjects. But like the same conversation that we bring up in here at Life Workshop. This is the education that, for example, if we get to know others and be more open-minded and not to write them off just quickly because we got a bad wipe or something, as I had said before, don't trust your uh intuition, don't trust the first you know impression. But now, Bo, I have this question for you. If you would enter a room, a big room, and there are unfortunately I cannot put a slide in here uh because on the podcast they can't see the slide. Okay, and obviously on YouTube I'm not doing it too.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

But anyway, we're using our imagination, just use your imagination.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

You're entering this big conference room, you don't know anybody, but there are a big mixture of different people there. Why am I there? Just don't worry about the why part.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

I have to make something up.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

Um, let's say it's a conference, you have to go and you want to spend the whole day there or two days there, so you want to get to know somebody and you want to have some friends. Conference about what? Oh my god, about plumbing. Oh jeez, okay, good. That's sounds like an awful conference. So, but you go into this big conference room, and there are people, as I said, with different looks, black and white and good looking like me. There are Chinese, Hispanic, I don't know, European, African. There are tall, short, some with piercing, some with big beards, some bit, I don't know, lots of tattoos. Some dressed up well, some not so well and dirty, you know, some wearing, for example, this being like a gangster. You know, they have let's say all this different type.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Okay. And we're all learning about plumbing stuff.

unknown 12:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Which person, you know, would you go to, because you want to obviously be kind of spend some time, you know, which person would you feel the most comfortable to go to and talk to?

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I'm not generally comfortable in those situations in the first place. So I probably wouldn't go to anyone. I would wait to see who I would wait to talk to someone who comes and talks to me. Okay. Um but in this situation you're asking who would I approach or whatever, and it would probably be somebody who I think looks interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

What is interesting to you?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Well, someone who isn't who isn't dirty, first off. Like and workplace dirty is different. If there is somebody who's all like they just got off the job or something, that's one big thing. But like if like the person who I I know the people who I wouldn't approach is a lot easier than the people who I would. And it would be that someone who I look at and I think, oh, dirty, and then I associate a smell. So if someone who smells off to me, those are people who I wouldn't approach anyone else's fair game, it would just be like whatever piques my interest at the time. If if someone's talking about something that I that I hear and I'm like, oh, that's interesting, I would gravitate towards that. Um, it wouldn't have anything to do with looks per se, right? Obviously, more sound awful, but more attractive people, I would probably be more inclined to go that way. Um that is very true. That's awful to say, but it's true.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

No, it is true. It is true, and this is how we have been brought up. So that's a fact.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Not we don't have to but it would be more about what people are talking about.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

And this is the interesting part. I have asked the same question from um quite different people. And normally, you know, the answers are like this. For example, if somebody has a smile and more welcoming, you don't go to somebody who doesn't we're at a plumb plumbing conference, buddy. Okay, I it was you okay. I made it plumbing conference for you, but for others, I made it just a normal place. So we go after you go to somebody that you feel comfortable, and who is the one that you're comfortable normally goes to the background of you know what we have been told, what's comfortable. Someone someone over memories.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Someone who isn't loud too. Loud people, I would probably stay away from, right? And this is interesting.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

That's you know, it'd be more someone who's more and I'm sure there would be some people that they like the loud people simply because they're more familiar with it. So it is all a sense of familiarity that we have. For example, if Tarzan was there, probably would go after the animals because he feels more comfortable with the lion. Right. Or George of the Jungle, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Yeah, whatever. Either tomato tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

Yeah, if they they would go, I mean, everybody would go after what they are the more familiar. So um uh actually it was a uh uh documentary I I watched long times ago, Love Chronicle, that it said that for example, if you eat a food for the first time in a restaurant, and then let's say the server is um, of course, if you're a guy, you go, and for example, there is this beautiful, you know, lady who comes very pleasant, you know, and serves you, you and then you have the same food even years after, you may not remember when you had it, but normally you end up liking it because it brings up a subconscious, you know, thing that you had a good experience years ago. So that is what we do. So because of that, sometimes some of it applies to ourselves, to our own experiences, and some of it unfortunately applies to the media. That's what media tell us, that what look is good, what look is not good. So that we had a conversation about this in the previous you know talk. That the media, the way and if we present in all different people in the fair way, then the amount of discrimination, and even my myself, I do, you know, uh, I should say that, you know, that those feelings will change. It's all with the media as well as our own experience, that the feelings will change. And we are talking in feelings, we are not talking facts, remember that. So, because of that, in order to give it get over that, if um if you start with looking in a factual way, for example, yeah, yes, you might get interested, you know, you find somebody interesting, you get there, you get close to them, but then you see that the conversation is off, or for example, they are the the value system that they have, you completely write them off, and then you just go to somebody else that you may not have liked. Now I'm gonna change the question. Which one, you don't have to necessarily answer this one, which one would be in the same conference room, the least likely person that you would go to?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Oh, we are I said that already. Okay, the person who I would consider dirty. Okay. Now and and it uh and dirty, like I don't mean I know not that I can define dirty, I mean like physically, like you know, and not workplace dirty, not whatever, that that would be fine. Like I spend most of my time workplace dirty. So but that and and and I don't know why, but a smell, if I get a bad smell, uh, I'm I'm done. Okay. And that's sub subjective to everybody, you know. Exactly like overperfuming, and I should be done.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Actually, sometimes, you know, for some people, some of the smells, you know, has a good thing because if they have it, for example, from people that they loved, that is another thing. Yep. So no back to this one. Now, if you go afterwards, you know, I go to another conference room that the same person who is the least inter you're least interested to go and talk to is there next to a bunch of aliens that they have two horn and then they have a third eye in their forehead and a long tail. Who would you go and talk to?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

I want to say the alien just to be a dick, but I know that the right answer is I would obviously talk to the person who I wouldn't want to talk to you in the conference room because we're the same-ish, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:13

So because you have more similarity with the smelly guy.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

But once I talk to the aliens, I might change my mind because maybe I want to hang out with the aliens instead. That is true. And then I'll find out that some of the aliens are jerks, you know, and then we go through this whole thing all over again. So no, and that is very true.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

But the first thing that we pick is the similarities. But now, this is where I'm going with this. We are living on this small planet and we tend to pick and discriminate among ourselves, and sometimes we miss the big picture that we have actually more similarities than differences. Now, if instead of the alien, if we could visualize that there are other problems in the whole world that we all face, we all face. And it doesn't have to be a physical thing like aliens. It can be, I mean, the problems that we have. We have a lot of medical issues like you know, cancer and now COVID at this point. We have um a lot of mental issues that are existing, poverty, you know, war that unfortunately right now is going on. A lot of these things, they do they are not an alien with a picture that we just diss them and then we realize the smelly guy who might look even different than us, with a different skin color or shape or I don't know, size or clothing, we don't then we gravitate towards this person more than to the alien.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Now, what I'm trying to say to get at is that if we could just see that really we have a lot more problems in the whole world to deal with, we have bigger fish to fry before we worry about this, you know, fact that we have these differences in the way that we look or well yeah, I guess that that goes into that you should be you should be more interested in um you shouldn't be as interested in looks and you should be more interested in uh the value systems that are. Yeah, virtues maybe?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this is normally I say that um be careful what you look for, you will find it. If you look for differences, you will find it. If you look for similarities, you do. You will never ever be disappointed. So sometimes when I talk about this is stuff, some people they want to prove me wrong. I said, uh I already have proved your point. You're looking for that, you will find it for sure. You look for the good or bad, you will find it in anybody. And everywhere, and everything. It's just that where do you want to put your focus on? So when it comes to this, and sometimes when I look at it, and I don't know if you can visualize this. If, for example, you just go up in the sky and you look at the whole planet. Sometimes I just I have this visualization that you see a bunch of ants running around and you know fighting each other over a piece of crumb and or animals, they attack each other and do stuff. And then when you go, then you go higher up, you see that as we humans we do the same thing over the things that really is just ridiculous. And if we would start working together and helping each other, that would have been a completely different thing. We would fight the the wrong things that are in life, like as I said, the diseases and the mental parts and those kind of things versus fighting each other, then it would just change the the whole. Whole, you know, game. That's what I'm trying to say. And then so because of that, normally I say that when I talk about this stuff, very frequently people say, Yes, I agree. I mean, normally. But often, change doesn't happen as easy. So even myself, I talk about that doesn't mean that I'm specifically I'm doing every single thing that I'm saying. The answer is no, I'm working on them. And I'm sure a lot of other people that they listen, they agree. But you know, when it comes to doing it, again you see the differences that you have with somebody else. Yes, we all have differences. But remember, the differences that we have first, if you're the one who looks after, you look for differences, first we find the differences that are bigger and more obvious. Then after that, we will find the differences that are less obvious. So, for example, in now, especially in the North America, that we have more immigrants of different color that they come, this has become the new thing that we say, you know, those people.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

I don't think that's new.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

But even before that, when the people of, you know, that they were just a bunch of white people were here, then they had the differences. Oh, you're Ukrainian, you're the British, you're the German, you're the French. Yeah. And even if all of them were British and French and Ukrainian, if all of them were there, like if you go to their own country, they divide each other again based on which city you're coming from.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

You know, or how much money do you make? So because if you look for differences, you will never ever, you know, ends. Normally say that this is like going to high school that you give a veggie to the newcomer. And we keep this behavior going. In high school, they do it by giving a veggie to the first, you know, uh the one that came. In here, we give it to the new immigrants. And don't worry, as an old immigrant, I do it to new immigrants too. So so, but we keep repeating the same behavior. But if we change the view, I think it will never ever happen. And what I'm talking by that, and this is the message that I said that change doesn't happen slowly. We know that. So if you're you're you're you're um uh listening to all this and you agree with it, it's cool, but I don't expect anything to happen. But I do request this to stop saying the words like those people or we versus you know against somebody else. Just don't do that. It's just us. Some of us we are tall, some are short, some are good, some are bad, some are thieves, some are trustworthy, some are rapists, some are child molesters. Most of us we are good people. Some I don't know, work, some don't work, some are overweight, some are not. But it's just us. There is nobody else. Now, if we look at it from this angle versus saying those people, this is what's gonna happen. When you say those people, it comes with it with this connotation that they're obviously different. So the comp concept of competition, war, hostility comes kind of with that, those people. But if you look at it as us, for example, let's say one of us, and this us can be in my family member, let's say, is a thief, it's a bad, very bad thing, but I want to help them versus beat them up normally and helping in a way, and when I say help, I don't mean by going against the law. Sometimes it's just that by reporting them that is the help that I'm talking about, or sending them if so, what I'm trying to say is that when it comes to the concept of that, we think about it as us, we start to think about how we can help each other to grow, regardless of good or bad, regardless of you know the differences that we have, because it's just one of us. But if we think about them as those people, then the fights and the competition and you know, as I said, hostility, it kind of gets us started. So if you can do me a favor, just change that word. That's the only thing I'm asking. When you want to talk, say that some of us are this, some of us we do that, some of us, and I don't know if you have noticed, I kind of normally say that. And even for example, once I was talking about this, I have got this a few times. I said, Some of us I had this African, you know, a client of mine. She said, Are you African? I said, No, but I'm from this planet. And I have had white friends that, you know, for example, I said that we have done this to these people. He said, Why you see we, you were not here? I said, Were you here when that happened? No, because it was generations before. I said, No, again, it is us. Yeah, it is just us. Your history, your background does not mean it's yours because it was your general previous generation. It can be mine. That is what I'm trying to say. That is just us. Any good or bad that your previous generation or yours, if you do, again, is just us. So we try to take responsibility and do the right thing as much as possible. So that is the main thing that I'm trying to get hopefully done with this podcast. And when I'm talking about that, I'm talking about the everybody, the immigrants, the non-immigrant, the one who thinks that is a victim, the one that he thinks that is a violator. I don't know, anybody, because some people they just wait for others to reach out and tell them some of us. No, no, no. You can anybody and everybody, you know, regardless of if you think that, oh, everybody's wrong, doing wrong to me, and you know, more of a victim personality, but to take charge and say that no, some of us we do this, some of us we violate each other's right, and some of us have violated my right. But you know, if we just think about it, it is some of us and we want to correct it. That is all I'm asking. Did you have any question or just drawing some stuff there?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Just drawing some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Okay, good. So at the end, I would like to finish it with this question. How would you feel when you change the wording from those people and saying some of us? Just practice that for God's sake. And I really, really beg you guys to do that. Just to start saying, Some of us we do this, some of us are living in these countries, some of us we have this religion, some of us we do this funny clothing, some of us we have those funny ideas, but it's some of us, some of us we are bad people, some of us are good people, but just say some of us instead of those people. That's all I'm asking, and see how the feelings change, because you can't change your feelings. As I have said it before, the way you think dictates the way you feel, and by doing that, I can say almost I can assure you, the concept of discrimination it just doesn't exist. It will just go away because we are here to help each other to come up. Again, at the very end, remember life is simple, we make it complicated. Love you guys all. Thank you. Goodbye.