Source Intelligence: The Inner Clarity Modern Leaders Are Missing with Anthony Nayagan

What if the future of leadership is not about having more information, but accessing a deeper form of intelligence within?

In this episode of Behind the Story, Jelani sits down with Anthony Nayagan, a modern mystic, executive mentor, author, Tamil Siddhar, and Rajarishi, whose work bridges Eastern wisdom traditions and Christian mysticism. Anthony shares his perspective on source intelligence, the difference between external intelligence and internal intelligence, and why today’s leaders need more than strategy, credentials, and information to navigate a noisy world.

The conversation explores Samadhi, conscious leadership, spiritual clarity, the state of witnessing, and what it means to lead from calmness rather than chaos. Anthony also discusses why ancient wisdom is being brought forward now, how Christian faith and Eastern spiritual traditions can coexist, and how everyday people—not just CEOs or public leaders—can begin accessing deeper clarity in their own lives.

This is a powerful conversation for leaders, creators, seekers, and anyone asking: How do I stay centered, clear, and grounded in a world that constantly pulls me outward?

Listen now on Behind the Story.

Transcript

Jelani Gonzalez: ⁓ I want to talk you about one of the articles that you wrote in regards to source intelligence. And of the first things that ⁓ jumped out to me was in the source intelligence in a noisy world. The article calls this.

Anthony Nayagan: Okay.

Jelani Gonzalez: a historic shift happening right now. tell what is it that's changing leadership ⁓ and why now?

Anthony Nayagan: up See. In intelligence, there are two kinds of intelligence. One is external and the other is internal. See, external intelligence very matter-centric intelligence. It's what we can see, what we can feel, what we have learned and we can put everything in a certain order, make it into a matrix. All those things are external intelligence. It comes from a variety of factors, you know, such as our perceptions, our learnings, our degrees and all of that. Whereas internal intelligence is something very different. It is so different it's not even alike. That is what we called ⁓ in Eastern as consciousness. Western spirituality as the spirit. Okay, that's what that is. Now, let me kind of give you more information about this internal intelligence. You see, the minute I say it's internal intelligence, we probably assume, all of us would naturally assume, that it is going to have the same order, same structure, same kind of a logical... you know, sequences and that this and all of that. It's not. It's nothing like that. Okay? It ⁓ is infinity. You know, it's literally is a space of infinity. Let me kind of explain it this way. See for instance, when our mind is not active at all, There is a lot of things that is very functional, very active, very robust within us. there is the immune system that's working within us. We have no clue about exactly how it works. Okay? And we have that system that heals us. You know, that... know, all kinds of ailments... It's very active in healing us. Okay? The second thing is... you know, we are very emotional people. See, we only rationalize our emotions after it has come out. But where is it coming from? How does it originate? What moves within us comes out with that sort of an you know, an output? What is causing it? So, ⁓ that is very emotional. And the second thing is extraordinarily intelligent. See, it knows exactly how to heal you. It knows exactly how to connect with other molecules, other cells and everything else within us. It's just working. See, it is incredibly creative. whether you about ⁓ See, there are... millions of cells that are dying within us. And this is actively recreating it and replenishing it, reconnecting it. So there is all sorts of creative things going on within us. So from what we just discussed, we have something within us that is healing, that is emotional, that is conscious, that is creative. Are you aware of this? See, this is what I talk about internal intelligence. You see, the difference is whatever we do with external intelligence, has a beginning and an end. You know, even according to the Bible, anything that begins with matter ends up as a matter, which means it meets its eventual death. But what ⁓ it in imperishable... It lasts forever. It remains imperishable. So anything we create from imperishable, it becomes a classic. Yeah.

Jelani Gonzalez: In terms of, to ask you this and to follow that thought process, in terms of clarity, you describe clarity that arises before thought. How someone recognize the difference between pre-thought clarity and a strong opinion or instinct?

Anthony Nayagan: Okay. See, for instance, when you dream, your mind is not active. The minute your mind becomes active, the dream is gone, you are awake.

Jelani Gonzalez: You consciously active, right?

Anthony Nayagan: It is not consciously active. See, when we say consciously active, yeah, it is true, we are consciously active. But it has nothing to do with our mind. or even our subconscious and you know to do with any of it. It actually there is an element in our conscious. You know, that is witnessing what is going on. It's witnessing what is going on. It's not interpreting it. You know, it's not discerning it. It's just witnessing the dream. See, when you witness, mind is not at play. You know, you're only a witness. See, for instance, you know, I mean, you know, if you witness, ⁓ say that you witnessed something. you know, miraculous or maybe a crime, maybe whatever. You actually are in a captured state. Your mind is not thinking, you're only looking. Okay, it's only after that and you just come to realize, my God, what happened? See, that is the true witness. You see, your mind is not active, your mind is not interpreting what you're seeing, you know, you are just witnessing, you are in the present moment looking at something as it happens. You see, we all have that capacity. Okay, so when you are observing, In other words, when you're witnessing something, there is no observation going on. It's only a witness. See, when the mind becomes active, or when the consciousness becomes active, that is when you are interpreting what you witnessed. It's called observation. You're observing, you're going back to what you witnessed, observing, then you are aligning that

Jelani Gonzalez: Hmm.

Anthony Nayagan: with your mindfulness. You see, so what happens in this situation is your mind has synthesized, you know, what went on there, put everything in order, then your ego takes over to implement it. That is really how it works. Now, ⁓ this witness and observation, it's only two things that are functional within us. That is our ego and our mind.

Jelani Gonzalez: Okay.

Anthony Nayagan: You see, that is where we are going wrong in everything we do. Okay, that is where things that come comes with an expiration date. You know, we don't we don't create class. see what I Raja Rishi. Rishi is a person

Jelani Gonzalez: I do. And I'm going to ask you about the the Rajarishi. Hopefully I'm saying it properly, pronouncing it properly. How do you define that?

Anthony Nayagan: Who is in that solid state of witnessing all the time? So, even though he is functional in other ways, he appears to be functional, he is always in that solid state witness. You know, so he is constantly witnessing, he is constantly aware of what he witnesses. That's who... in a technical sense, Raja Rishi is. is someone who has the power to power of awareness. Raja means king. Raja Rishi is the one who is in that frame of being 24 hours a day. Even whether he is sleeping, he is eating, it doesn't matter what he's doing. 24 hours, that's the way he was. To give you an example, lot of the saints are like that. Jesus was like that. See, there was one instance Jesus was asking Philip, you know, Philip was asking Jesus, show us your father, we want to see your father. And for that he says, have you seen me, Philip? You know, I see what my father has doing and that's what I am doing. When you see me, you have seen my father. So that means in that frame of mind, You are 100 % the image and likeness of God, possessing all the creative, all the emotional, and the healing and all sorts of powers within you. So ⁓ your you create miracles. I mean, when you walk a boardroom, you don't have to say anything. that your presence will transform everything.

Jelani Gonzalez: So how does that, what does that look like in today's society in the modern world?

Anthony Nayagan: Okay, yeah. See, in the modern world we are very caught up in external intelligence. You see, and that is the reason why there is an urgency, you know, for internal intelligence to emerge, especially among leaders. Okay. We really have to do that. I mean, it's really unfortunate. You see, you ⁓ lot of us don't even have the discernment to think. what is right and what is wrong. All we want is somebody to tell us what is right and what is wrong. We are ready to accept it. Okay, give us the pill. You know, whether it's going to work or not, that's besides the point. I have a pill. You see, that is how a of us are operating in a modern world. know, all we need is somebody with way to tell us what is right, what is wrong, what is truth, and what is not truth. I mean, look at our politics nowadays. That's exactly what it is. See, and invariably we have chaos and confusion everywhere. I'm not blaming one party, I'm blaming both parties. Okay? it is there. It's chaos, confusion, you know, and that is dividing us, you know, that is creating lot of mistrust between us. You know, we... know, call ourselves going back to our basics, we are not going back to our basics. You know, we are actually going back to our primitive days. Okay? Is that basic? It's not basic.

Jelani Gonzalez: The article mentions, and recalling from memory, it mentions Samadhi as continuous equilibrium. How do you explain continuous Samadhi?

Anthony Nayagan: Yeah. Okay. Samadhi in a literal sense. is the state of being dead. Okay, that's really what Samadhi means. Meaning you are 100 % in the presence of witnessing. You see, it's a state you are not aware of your matter at all. See, you are, even according to modern physics, you are a composition of matter and wave, particles and wave. That is matter and the pure energy, which I'm talking about the internal intelligence. See, that is what you are. Samadhi means you are not aware of the matter that you are at all. You know, you're only 100 % immersed in the internal intelligence. See, this is what Jesus talked about all the time. Whoever believes in me will not experience death. said that again and again and again. He did not mean literal death. All of his opposers died, his mother died, he himself died. You see, matter has to perish. You know, there is no irreversibility about it. But human being is the ⁓ creation in the whole world who can attain that state of samadhi. You know, meaning that energy form... or the metaphor. You see, we are the only creation in the whole universe that was created with this separation. You know, from dust to we became the body. And into the body, the breath and life and the spirit was given. So it was actually, it's a two-state process. That is extremely meaningful. Incredibly meaningful. you know, when it comes to what I'm talking about. And it is something everyone, every human being is destined to realize. That is our design. That's how we are made. Okay? You know, it is not a prelude to a sin-centric Christianity. It is not. You know, it is a design document. Genesis is a design document of exactly how we are made, you know, as particles and energy. as two separate entities coming together in one form. And by way of the design, we are the only entity in the entire creation that is able to realize the material part and the energy part independently. You see? Yeah, go on.

Jelani Gonzalez: Why break 5,000 years of secrecy? tradition that you speak of and that you're part of was guarded and transmitted. It was transmitted privately, right? Why open the gates now?

Anthony Nayagan: Because, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, it is. Well, because I'm a Christian. As a Christian, my mandate is take my graces, you know, to his people. See, I'm not given this for myself. I'm given this to take it to everybody else.

Jelani Gonzalez: How do they coexist, the Siddharth mastery and the Christian faith? How does that duality exist for you? How do you carry that foundation?

Anthony Nayagan: Actually, it exists perfectly. You see, you know, both... Both traditions is the wealth of wisdom. and the wealth of philosophy. See, fundamentally, Hinduism, it's called Sanardana Dharma. Sanardana Dharma means way of living. Christianity is also the same. It is the way of living. You see, and we call that life in Christ. Okay? But the thing is, the modern Christianity, which means the intellectual Christianity, had made it into an administrative system. But when you really see down into it, and look further and further into the mysteries of it, you will see that Christianity is a way of living. It is not a belief system. It is a way of living. So when we bring that way of living and the Sanatana Dharma together, there is no conflict at all. You see, so, I mean, even in Hinduism, there are people who are believers will completely disagree with me. And so among Christians who are pure believers, will never believe me, never agree with fully. Okay. But in both religions, when you delve very deep into it, you see, you see the Dharma part. Dharma actually means moral living. So you call this Sanatana Dharma, in other words, how people morally live together. So where is the conflict in Christianity? It's exactly the same. You see?

Jelani Gonzalez: Switching to leadership for just a moment, what does it mean to ⁓ the sovereign leader?

Anthony Nayagan: See, empowering the sovereign leader, meaning giving him, actually is, it's deeper than that. See, for instance, If I see you as a sovereign leader, my number one priority is to understand who you are as a unique creation. Okay? Meaning, doesn't create anything alike. Even when you look at a tree, there is no two leaves alike. Okay? Everything creates, it's a variation. You know? So it actually, the whole modus operandi of God's creation is how diversities come together for a single glory. You see? That's how He created the universe. But every element is diverse, it's unique, it's different. You are very different. So I cannot come to you with the one size fits all answer to make you a supreme leader. I have to see you as a unique creation. So, and what is so unique about you? Okay, and then comes my second challenge. Can I bespoke my coaching? You know. to your unique disposition of the image and likeness of God yourself. And when I see that, yeah, then I can what I have to you in a way that you become that supreme person with that level of awareness. and control and all of that.

Jelani Gonzalez: I think the phrase internal samadhi, external mastery, is a powerful phrase. What does that look like day to day, a high stakes day? There's crises, there's backlash, layoffs, war room decisions. How does samadhi look like? ⁓

Anthony Nayagan: ⁓ It is calm and clarity beyond belief. It's calm and clarity that really inspires everybody around you. You see? If you haven't, I mean, you're a young man. ⁓ have you seen videos and things like of Nelson Mandela?

Jelani Gonzalez: Yeah, of course.

Anthony Nayagan: Can you imagine how calm and clear he was all the time? All the time. He's a tremendous human being. And have you seen videos of Mother Teresa? Another one, exceptional human being, very calm, very together, very collected. how you are. You see, when these people walk into your room, you don't have to say anything.

Jelani Gonzalez: If I can, if I can. Yes, yes, I have. Yes.

Anthony Nayagan: Just your presence alone will transform everything. I mean, that's how powerful they are. You see, that is the true leader. You see, that is the true leader. It's your calmness, it's your collectivity, it's your clarity and how you manifest it, you know, so that it touches everybody around you. They will come up with the solutions. All you need to do is stand there smiling. That is a true leader. manifest yourself in the middle of a crowd and the crowd will do everything for you. ⁓

Jelani Gonzalez: Very true. You I grew up like that. My dad used to say the thing you can control in life is yourself, self-control. And to remain calm is to remain in control of the situation, no matter what's going on, no matter how chaotic it may seem. Maintaining that self-control empowers you to handle whatever it is in the most efficient and effective way. So I always, like, I just don't lose my cool.

Anthony Nayagan: Yeah? Yeah.

Jelani Gonzalez: just believe in that I grew up like that and I never saw my dad get upset or raise his voice. He would be upset and tell me, I'm but it was not an energy of chaos. But he would tell me, I'm very disappointed or I'm very upset. And it would be the same tone and same ⁓ style if he's having a normal conversation me. ⁓

Anthony Nayagan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really is a spectacular power. It really is a, you know, I don't know, you know, there is another sportsman I really admired. who possessed this kind of power. I don't know if you remember him. You know, you're too young for that. He played for 49ers. ⁓ Before Steve Young, what was his name? Joe Montana. ⁓ is ⁓ on the field will shake him up. ⁓

Jelani Gonzalez: What's his name? Joe Montana. Joe Montana. I am from there. brother is a big American.

Anthony Nayagan: And that is what the clarity is. You know, you know exactly what you're going to do. You're so clear about it. You know how it is going to be done. You know who is going to get it done. You know everything. You know, nothing in the whole universe could shake you. Nothing.

Jelani Gonzalez: Yeah, that's very true. My dad used to say, imagine yourself as a stoic piece of rock in the middle of a hurricane that's immovable. That's the chaos around you, and you represent the control within the chaos. That's what he used to tell me to visualize. Let me ask you this. What are some of the common misconceptions that leaders have when they first engage with your work?

Anthony Nayagan: Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. They are apprehensive whether this is really possible. Okay, whether this is authentic, justifiably so, there is no question about it. You see? And the second thing is, we... We are so inculcated in belief systems, orders. See, for instance, even when you are in a university, you have to fit in within the certain parameters for you to become academically successful. You have to fit in. And that's the way it has been. And that's how we are trained. so you always ⁓ about what is in me that is going to have to change. See, that is a huge obstacle I have to deal with. You know, is it going to change my life? It is going to change my lifestyle. It is going to make me, you know, behave like a monk. You know, can I have regular relationships? You see, you through all kinds of things. How is this going to change my life, my being, my lifestyle? The answer is it doesn't have to change anything. You see, you know, it's just having the clarity, you know, to know for a fact that, see, you are created as a child of God. See, when you are a child of God, you know, it is very meaningful. It's not just you're a child, you know, God calls you his prince. Okay, your prince means You have authority, you know, you have the willpower, you have everything it takes, you know, to live a glorious life that represents his authority, his being, and his status. You see, when you look at, ⁓ say for instance, you know, we are all aware of Prince William, you know.

Jelani Gonzalez: You

Anthony Nayagan: Prince William, when he walks around, when he does things, you know, there is royalty embedded in him already. Can you separate that? You cannot. See, when you are a prince of God, know, do you have that godliness embedded in you? See, ⁓ is what, ⁓ know, Jesus died to restore in you.

Jelani Gonzalez: very

Anthony Nayagan: You know, that nature as a son of God, can you also be a son of God just the way he was as a son of God? See, that is the essence of his life and death and resurrection. He taught you, you know, he died for you to restore that in you. You know, and then he made that permanent, you know, for you by way of his resurrection. What was his first word when he came out as resurrected Jesus to Mary of Magdalene? am going to my father, your father. I am going to my God, your God. He brought God that close to us the way he was to him. See, that was the word he uttered immediately. That's the first word he uttered after the...

Jelani Gonzalez: You Anthony, you mentioned clarity a little while ago in the conversation. ⁓ If the world's decision makers had absolute clarity, ⁓ would change for us? How would we see that manifesting in society?

Anthony Nayagan: Thank Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. my God. This clarity is very powerful. Okay? This is what is mentioned in Genesis. Don't eat from the tree ⁓ and evil. If you eat, it'll bring you death. See, when you are in that samadhi state, you are beyond. good and evil. That is how God created us. See, when fruit was eaten, what actually happened was we just came from the Samadhi state to a state of reality in which the ego took control of our material being. So we as material beings, we are destined to die. When we are in that samadhi, you know, people of samadhi state, there is no death for us. See, it's not death for us, there is no, you know, even good and evil, it doesn't belong there. You beyond all of that. See, when leaders are in that kind of a state of mind, in that kind of a frame of... see our decisions, our policies and everything that we do, it is not going to be centered around what is right and what is wrong. It is not centered on what is moral and what is immoral. It is based on love, it is based on integrity, it's based on authenticity, it's based on what is good. You how, what I do, how, what I decide, how I, you know, what I represent. is going to transform my fellow human being's life. So it really is the process of invoking transformations, you know, instead of invoking what is right and what is wrong. You see, what is right and what is wrong is not going to transform anybody. You know, if what I tell you today, right now, you know, if there is any element in it that is going to transform the way you think, I have done a wonderful job. Okay? You are still the son of or daughter of God. You still have what it takes to realize that eternal samadhi, even to a minor extent.

Jelani Gonzalez: Well, I've got a follow-up question in regards to that specific thought. For somebody who is not a CEO or a government official, how can they apply source intelligence in their everyday life?

Anthony Nayagan: See, you don't need to have that Niranjana Samadhi or that Raja Rishi Samadhi. You don't need to. Even a little bit of it you can go and come back. See, you can go into that frame of mind, stay in it for a few seconds, then come out. Knowing fully well, you can go back into it whenever you want. See, that alone is going to transform your life so much. You know, it literally transforms your life so much. You don't need to be in it all the time. See, when you are sleeping, you are not dreaming all the time. You sleeping. you just going in and out of dream state. You know, but the dream state is not continuous. You know, so this Samadhi state or the internal intelligence, it doesn't have to be permanently forever. Even the little moments you are in and out of it, it is going to do wonders to your life.

Jelani Gonzalez: So to that end, if someone masters the intelligence of self, how will they notice that their life has changed?

Anthony Nayagan: Actually, you really cannot. I mean, for instance, I cannot tell you how well my life has... you know, that happens when others tell me. Okay, because we are actually have transcended that kind of a mindfulness, that kind of an awareness. I'm going to tell you a story. There was one time I was in the presence of my Guru and there was a miracle. Okay? I was part of the miracle, meaning I was an instrument in the miracle. And I got so excited, I really got so excited. So when I went to see her and I told her about it, And she just looked at me as, the hell are you talking about? You know? And then she laughed it out. That's it. See, what I'm saying is... In that frame of mind, you are aware of what is going on around you, but you are detached from any of it. You're far removed from any of it. You know, whether you want the knowledge of it, probably you don't, because it only contributes to your ego, and you don't want that. So nobody in that awareness, you know, would want that knowledge. Okay, because when that form of a knowledge seeps in, you are losing your authenticity. Okay? You really are. ⁓ mean, you need to be far removed from that kind of a compliment, that kind of ⁓ See, you are going to constantly get it.

Jelani Gonzalez: Mm-hmm.

Anthony Nayagan: But if you're going to attach yourself to it, you are going downhill.

Jelani Gonzalez: If says to you, Anthony, I'm spiritual, but I don't trust institutions, how would you respond?

Anthony Nayagan: ⁓ That person is very clever. very clever. At least that person is far ahead. Because I tell you what, institution is about belief systems. Okay? And the more you believe in something, your inquiry meets paralysis. Meaning you have nothing more to learn. You know everything, you know, because you believe in it. See, that brings an end to your questions. Okay? And that is how institutions operate on. It doesn't matter whether it's a religion or whatever it is. Institutions ⁓ modular systems based on beliefs. Okay? That's how they work. But here is the thing. You know, Jalani, if you were to love... The knowledge about your beloved have to be always on the incline. You know, when it stagnates, then your life is, I mean, your love is going to dwindle down. Okay. So, the about your beloved must always be on the increase. Whether it is

Jelani Gonzalez: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Anthony Nayagan: a beloved in your relationship, you know, as a human being, or whether it's even a relationship with God. Unless the knowledge is on the increase, then your love is going to collapse. Okay? So, the institutions... I mean, here is the betrayal of the institution. Okay? The institution tells you what to believe, but it doesn't tell you how to seek further knowledge. about your beloved. Okay? It doesn't tell you how to seek more knowledge, further knowledge. You know, it really doesn't. lot of us, especially Christians, and we think, you know, if we go beyond our belief system, that's a sin against the Holy Spirit. Okay? Gosh, I cannot believe how brainwashed they are. They really are.

Jelani Gonzalez: Very true. Right.

Anthony Nayagan: I mean these people, how could they love God? ⁓ never be afraid. Never be afraid to love. Never be afraid to seek knowledge. Never be afraid to grow. Okay? You have, you know, you are born in this world.

Jelani Gonzalez: you Anthony, any final words as we wrap up? Any final words for the audience as we wrap up?

Anthony Nayagan: to flourish as children of God, the inclination to become His image and likeness in this lifetime. See, when you become the image and likeness of God, then the kingdom of God is going to be on earth. That is what Jesus kept on envisioning. That is what he was talking about. It really depends on how willing we are to embrace what we are as children of God. Then... the kingdom of God will become a reality. Okay, yeah. ⁓ you're most welcome. Okay, thanks. I appreciate that.

Jelani Gonzalez: Anthony, thank you. Thank you for joining me on Behind the Story. If this conversation gave you clarity or challenged the way you think, like, subscribe Leave a comment and I'll see you next time.