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Behind The Story Show
Dr. Donna Bellinger: Discipline, Self-Worth, and Getting Paid Your Value
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Jelani Gonzalez
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What really keeps business owners stuck in sales?
In this episode of Behind the Story, Dr. Donna Bellinger breaks down the habits, mindset gaps, and leadership mistakes that quietly block revenue growth. She shares why business owners often become their own bottleneck, how self-sabotage shows up in sales, and why consistently communicating your competence matters more than trying to be the smartest person in the room.
Donna also explains her powerful “suspects, prospects, and ambassadors” framework, how to stop chasing the wrong people, and what sales discipline actually looks like when you want sustainable growth.
This conversation is direct, practical, and full of real-world advice for entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, and owner-operators who want to grow revenue, own their value, and build a stronger business.
speaker-0: Just remember that you do not need to be the smartest person in the room and the only people you need to connect with are your people. Own your value. Consistently communicate your competence and you will be able to grow your community, your platform and your revenue.
speaker-1: Welcome back everybody to another edition of Behind the Story. Today I'm joined by Dr. Donna Bellinger. Dr. Donna, thank you for joining me on Behind the Story.
speaker-0: It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.
speaker-1: Well, as I'm in the same position of most people, meeting you for the first time, most people in our audience anyway, meeting you for the first time. So take me back to the beginning. How did everything get started for you? Or I should say, was there a pivotal moment in your life that led you into your current career and what you're actually offering to everybody?
speaker-0: I will keep this really brief because I've done this a number of times. I fell into what I'm doing right now accidentally on purpose. I had a child right out of high school. My family disowned me, told me no good man would ever want me. I'd be working the streets in six months. Within three years, I was out earning my management father. So now that I've got all of that garbage out of the way.
speaker-1: So tell me, who do you help? Who do you serve?
speaker-0: The that I serve are people who need to create their own economies. There is so much going on globally where we don't know really where we're going to show up this month, next month, a year from now, but we must be able to support the people who depend on us. And in order for us to do that, we have to do a couple of different things. Number one. We need to understand and acknowledge and communicate the value of what we are able to put out to other people. frequently when I'm working with business owners, they identify with the brand that they currently represent, whatever that brand happens to be. It can be their brand. It can be a corporate brand. But the bottom line is people are not traditionally buying the brand. They're buying you. So how do you communicate your value the way that you value what you're able to bring to other people and how you can best serve them to alleviate whatever their current challenge or pain may be? I've been in sales for a very, long time by looking at you. know longer than you've been circling the globe. I'm just going to say handsome.
speaker-1: I'm younger than I look, I promise.
speaker-0: I promise you, I'm probably older than I look. So here's the deal. Who do you choose to serve? What is the value that you want to bring to them? And also, I say this to my people frequently, work is what you do to finance who you choose to become. and through that home you choose to serve. So yeah, we want to get the money, but why do we want that revenue? What are we going to do with it? How are we going to pay that forward? And who depends on us to create that result? Frequently, what we wind up doing is just taking a look at, okay, this is what I need to do to not get fired. Okay. This is what I need to do to keep the lights off. And I had a conversation recently with my daughter and she says, yeah, but really, who do you want to be? Who do you want to be? So remember that your skillset is simply a tool to get you to where you want to be. And through that, who you choose to serve. Does that make sense for you?
speaker-1: It makes perfect sense. I read in your writings that you say business owners become the bottleneck. What does that mean?
speaker-0: Depending upon your age, you'll relate to this more than others. It is very important that you not drink the Kool-Aid, you know, if you're familiar with that term. It is not about your being the smartest person in the room. That's not what's going to do it for you. That is not what's going to grow your community, your culture. your value. So I need you to determine what it is you want to deliver to the people that you engage with and how you want to be perceived. Are you looking at your prospects and your clients as simply transactions or are you looking to make a difference? And I'm not calling anybody wrong, but you need to own whatever that particular truth is for you. Are you looking for transactions? Great. Then you know, the type of verbiage and the type of outcome you're looking for when you post or or when you do a talk or however that is if you're looking to build a legacy, that's a little bit different So you need to decide where you want to show up neither is wrong But they are decidedly different
speaker-1: How have you applied the lessons you've learned in sales to your personal life?
speaker-0: One of the most important things that I have learned in sales is that you must be what I call bilingual. You must be able to completely hear and process the challenge in the voice of the person you're addressing. So when I talk to my individuals that I'm working with, I'd say that when you walk into a networking event or platform or whatever, you're going to encounter three types of people. I use the acronym SPA. They are either suspects, prospects, or ambassadors. A suspect is someone you may be able to do business with, but not right now. A prospect is a warm conversation. Hey, you know what? I heard what you said. That seems to fit in with my challenge right now. Let's talk about it. Or the ambassador who's the person who may never buy from you, but they're able to introduce you into. Groups, organizations, or rooms that need to hear you and they are willing to put their reputation online to vet you. Quickly, I have a person that I've been working with for years and when I would walk into this individual's networking events or other events, that person would stop even in mid-sentence and say, the woman who just entered into this room, If you're trying to grow your business, don't leave here without getting her conversation, getting her communication, and also learning how to connect with her. And so that's an ambassador. That's, know, so suspects, prospects, and ambassadors. Because if you walk into a room where you know most of the people in the room, but they are not referring to you, they are not buying from you, you probably need a new girl. Just go ahead and bite the bullet and make the shift.
speaker-1: Is there a belief or something that you learned early in your career that as you progressed further into your career that you had to completely let go of?
speaker-0: One of the things that I had to let go of was self-sabotage. The first person that you need to sell on the value of your service, your business, et cetera, is you. So if you begin to have that kind of conversation where I am, I call it TOO, you're too, you're too young, you're too old, you're too inexperienced, you're too whatever that thing is, you got to get over yourself. So when I started out a long time ago, I had to learn that although this was not the face they were looking for, whether it was gender, whether it was age, okay, whether it was whatever, I had to get past that and be able to, one of my other favorite terms is consistently communicate my competence. What is my value? And even today, I have to tell you that I had a conversation with a client today and the gentleman that I was working with said, you know what I love about working with you, Donna? You keep it on point. You hold me accountable and you keep it brief because when I walk in, I know exactly what I want to cover. One, two, three, four. Tell me what I need to know so that I can move you forward. That's what you're paying me for. And I don't need to know who you love, who you like, what happened. That's not what you're paying me for. And when you are able to keep everything focused, when you are able to help them to create additional revenue, nothing else, age, gender, whatever, doesn't matter because you made the pains.
speaker-1: Yeah, smart business people focus on the bottom line and the ROI. So that all makes perfect sense. Let's dive a little deeper into sales for a bit and tell me what are the top three reasons that you have discovered that you see sales get stuck for smart business owners?
speaker-0: Poor hiring, poor hiring and poor promotions. If you are hiring people that fit your budget as opposed to your needs, that's a challenge. When you are promoting from within without providing them the requisite support and leadership and guidance, that's a challenge. And also when you are relying on a finite number of businesses to get you to your revenue goal. And we, a lot of us learned this, not everybody, because some of you are younger than others, but during COVID, a number of businesses taped because the businesses they had depended upon were no longer viable. So do not rely on one or two or three. businesses to be, you know, that linchpin for your business. Also, please continue to network and remember that when you network, it's still not about that somebody, anybody, everybody conversation. You know, the people, the individuals, the companies that allow you to provide your very best level service. I have a term that I trademarked that is called a yes-timonials. A yes-timonial, and I will just give your audience the formula for that, is this. When you reached out to me, what was the challenge? While we were working together, what did you discover or what changed for you? As a result of our working together, what changed? for your business and make sure that they qualify and quantify that. I have over 40 recommendations on LinkedIn. So if you look at DonnaSmithBellinger.com on LinkedIn, you'll find them. One of my most recent ones was a person who said, after having had four months of absolutely no sales, I found Dr. Donna. After working with her, I was able to create over four Transactions that ranged from $900 to $35k and as a result, I finished the year profitable. Haha! Finished the year profitable? Thank you. $35k. Thank you. What do your people say about the result that you are able to deliver to them that when someone sees that on your website, on LinkedIn, wherever you're posting it, they go, that is exactly what my challenge is. Perhaps I need to speak to this individual.
speaker-1: In regards to sales is generally speaking, what does a healthy pipeline look like?
speaker-0: A healthy pipeline looks like a sequence of individuals for whom you know you can deliver a stellar result and get that yes-simonial or that recommendation. Far too often I hear people say, I'm looking for somebody, anybody, everybody. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're lying to yourself. Now, if you know that the people that I deliver the best result for are Let's just go into real estate. People who are interested in buying properties that are $500,000 or $1 million or more. Now you have narrowed that niche. That person is not looking for first time home buyers. Okay. You see what the difference is? So if I say that I'm looking for owner operated businesses that have been in operation for over three to five years. and have not broken through seven figures. Now you know who I'm looking to meet. Don't waste your time talking to people for whom you cannot deliver your top level.
speaker-1: Are there any habits that sabotage a business's ability to have consistent revenue?
speaker-0: Yes. And again, first of all, when you are promoting from within and you do not support those managers, if you promote perhaps your best salesperson, well, that's nice, but nobody likes them. They don't know how to lead people. That was not a good move. If you are not holding yourself accountable, this is the second thing to determine.
speaker-1: What's
speaker-0: The process for your business, if you're just grabbing somebody, anybody, everybody, and I have a roofing company that I work with and they're like, okay, fine, but this is what I do and that's what I do. No, that's not what they need. They don't want to hear who you know and who you're connected to. Zone in on what their challenge is, what their pain is, and show them through stories or case studies. why you are the safe investment in order to solve their problem. Far too often we let ego get involved in this and it's not about ego. And another thing that happens is that you forget how you buy. You forget how you buy. So do you just want the buzzwords and the followers and all of that? Or do you want to vet that person so that you know? that they can solve your challenge. Don't name drop. And all of those other little things say, you know what, if you're telling me that this X is your challenge, I will tell you that I had a client recently and I was able to do this, this, and this for that client. Is that the outcome you're looking for? And they're going to say, yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for. How did you do it? You don't tell them, I do the time out a lot. You don't tell them because that's what you get paid for. What you would probably want to say to them is, first of all, that was my client. Second of all, it's a highly customized solution. And number three, are you willing to have a conversation with me to make that happen? Frequently, businesses do not take the time to pre-qualify. So in pre-qualification, it's what is the challenge? How long have you had that challenge? What have you lost as a result of not solving that challenge? What would change for you when, not if, when we were able to resolve that challenge? These are questions that we don't take the time to ask. Does that help?
speaker-1: Yes, it does. When you first start working with a new client, specifically regarding their sales process, what's the first thing you look at in your audit?
speaker-0: The first thing I look at is what is their challenge? The things that I just covered with you? So it's like, okay, what is your desired outcome? If we decide that we should, again, we should work together, what would a successful outcome or what is your desired outcome in this engagement? Because that gives you an opportunity. to course correct whatever their expectations are and to make sure that their expectations are in alignment with what you are able to deliver. You're not trying to do something that's going to be heavy lifting. You know what you do well. Don't be afraid to walk away from something that is not your ideal.
speaker-1: In the context of your work, how do you define sales discipline?
speaker-0: And sales discipline is a couple of things. So number one, making sure that you're connected to the right prospect. And again, I can't say this often enough. This is an individual for whom you know you can provide your best outcome, your best work. Don't be afraid to refer them to someone else because that makes you their ideal referral source. All money is not good money. The second thing is to make sure that you're able to clarify the types of results that you have previously delivered so that you get what I call the bobblehead effect. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah. Terrific. Thirdly, make sure they're willing to invest in resolving this. And the reason they're willing to invest in it is you have demonstrated to them what they are losing. by not resolving it, they losing clients, prospects, promotions, whatever. Clarify that so they can put a dollar amount on that and you are able to pay for yourself.
speaker-1: would you advise a salesperson follow up without sounding pushy or desperate?
speaker-0: If you properly pre-qualify that individual, if you go through what is it costing you, what would change for you? Okay. And you get them to admit where they are falling short financially. What will change for them either in their life or in their finances or in their career. Then every time you talk to them, you want to say things like, okay, well, you know. The last time we talked, you told me that your biggest concern was you missed a promotion. You missed a big deal. Whatever. What else is going on and what has that cost you? Make them say it out loud and not that stuff that they're saying to other people. Yeah, well, he just wasn't the right client. Baloney, okay? What is it that he needed that you did not?
speaker-1: Can you advise someone who says, for example, I'm great at presenting, I'm great at delivery, but I hate selling?
speaker-0: then they need to determine what the purpose is for their business. Is the purpose of their business to create a speaking platform? Fine. Then that's what you're going to pursue and you're going to look for paid speaking engagements. However, when I work with coaches and other sales experts and businesses, it's like, what do you want people to do? What action do you need them to take? as a result of having been in your space, and are you providing them a roadmap to that end?
speaker-1: much of sales performance is mindset, skills, or the system?
speaker-0: That's a very interesting question. first of all, it's mindset because as I said before, the first person you have to sell on the value of your service or your product is yourself. The second thing that you must be able to do is communicate that value into the listening of the person that you address. It's not about you being the smartest person in the room. I absolutely adore my husband. But he's a geek, he's a nerd. And when we first started working together, even before we were married, and I would say, well, this is what you need to say, or that is what you need to say. And he said, but that doesn't make sense. I'm like, no, it doesn't make sense to you, okay? However, when you're speaking to these different individuals, what is their logic? Capsulizes my students, I'm an adjunct. And what my students call a data-ism is if they're not buying what you're selling, sell them what they're buying. Okay. You have to wrap your solution into their processing. Are they visual? If you're in real estate and looking for the white picket fence and being close to a school and all these other little things, or are they looking for the revenue bar? What is it that's most important to that individual? And that component of your offering or your solution is what you need to communicate into the conversation. Otherwise, they don't care.
speaker-1: advise people on handling rejection without spiraling out of control, getting depressed, changing their offers? What does that advice sound like?
speaker-0: Again, the first person you have to sell on the value of your business is you. Secondly, it's not personal, it's business. Two things you can do. Number one, and I train my people to do this regularly. If someone says no, say, okay, I completely understand that, but to help me to get better, what would have made it a yes? Ask them, you already don't have it. You have nothing to lose. What would have made it a yes? Frequently you will find that the dog bark the doorbell rang they blinked they missed it Because that's how we all are phone conversations zoom whatever next always when possible Have your sales calls on zoom or another platform so that you have the opportunity to review it and see where the disconnect occurred. If you're watching the body language and the cadence of the person you're addressing, you will be able to see where you lost control or interest in that conversation. And when I work with my people, I always encourage them to record those so that we can review them together and I can point those things out to them.
speaker-1: Yes and as a salesperson if I'm hearing this sounds great let me think about it. What's my next move?
speaker-0: Okay, so again, it's like, I'm happy that it sounds great. I'm happy that you need to think about it. What aspect of our conversation was not clear for you? You will find out then a couple of things. Is this indeed the person who has the power to make the decision? You may not be talking to the decision maker. And again, revisit the value of what you are offering to them. Okay, well, know, John, you told me that you lost this promotion. You lost this deal. You're spending too much time going into doctor's appointments. You're losing opportunities due to X. All right. Again, once this is resolved, ever if, once we resolve this, what will change for you? And what about that change is not resonating.
speaker-1: So it's almost, not almost, you're dealing with it directly to get the answer. That way you can address whatever it is, is the underlying.
speaker-0: looking back behind me but I don't have it near me. I have a book that I wrote and I released it in the fourth quarter of last year and it is called Sales is Not About Wait and See. Do you want to get paid now or eventually? And that's what the crux of this conversation is. Do you want to go ahead and find out who you need to chase? ⁓ I don't chase anybody. Or do you want them to just admit yes I'm in or yes I'm out? You know, as I tell some of the people, can't be a little bit pregnant. Okay. You're either in or you're out. How important is this to you? And as I've told some of my clients, I can't want this for you more than you want it for yourself. Very. You know what your time is valued at. So you don't want to keep chasing people and having meeting after meeting after meeting. And briefly, I will tell you, I had a client who was going through a conversation with a very major athletic brand. They called me and they said, we have had three meetings so far and they now want to have another meeting. And I said, look, what is your value per hour? And they told me, I said, so that times three is how much they told me. I said, great. Look, John, I have already invested X number of dollars of my company's resources in this dialogue. Are you ready to make a commitment? They walked away with the contract. And believe me, it was a substantial contract. But don't be afraid to stand up. The more you vacillate, the less they value you. You are a business owner, not a peddler. Do what you need to do.
speaker-1: asked great advice because I had a mentor that used to say that he never took free meetings, ever. The meeting cost a fee and if you hired him, the fee was discounted, the cost of the meeting was discounted from the service that he's going to provide because his attitude was time has a certain amount of value and I'm not going to do free. And he was in advertising and he said because what lots of the major corporations would do is they would have their ad agencies And then once a year they would send out a communique to all the other agencies and say, ⁓ come in and present to us. And we're looking for somebody and they get all these great ideas and they say, ⁓ we changed our mind. We're going to stay with the current agency. And then they tell the current agency, Hey, here's all the good ideas you need to be doing for us. So I haven't gone through that experience. He said, I never do free. just can't do it because my time has value. My knowledge has value. you.
speaker-0: have to tell you that that's the reason I tell my clients all the time that I'll be polite. Proposals are BS. I do not allow them to do proposals. Here's what you do, a scope of work. But how you do what you do is what you get paid for. When you go in to talk to a medical professional or any other type of professional, you're paying for their expertise. You know, your plumber may come in and be with you for 10 minutes, but you're going to pay what they charge. or the expertise. And far too often, you will find business owners and salespeople downloading their entire playbook to try to appear to be the smartest person in the room. And this is, and I know that your mentor knew this. They go and try to implement things that you told them and when it fails because They don't have the expertise to implement it properly. They say, but I got it from ABC corporation. So they must not know what they're talking about. You absolutely, positively never give them your intellectual property. That's the expertise that you get paid for. Thank you so much for bringing that up.
speaker-1: Do you have a preference in your business of who you work with as far as you work with businesses or individuals or salespeople? Is there a preference? ⁓
speaker-0: My preference is what I do not do. That makes it really simple. I do not do hospitality. I do not do retail. So I do a lot of work with professional services. I do a lot of work with franchises, real estate, things like that. Because frequently I'm running into people who are what I call order takers. When the person calls them, they know, okay, I need to buy a house. I needed to be here. Okay, fine. but you don't know how to move it beyond the transaction. So like I said, I'm working with roofers and contractors and, and a lot of other types of businesses. I prefer working with owner operated businesses. The mission statement for my particular company, which I have been doing for years. I'm just going to tell you, yeah, I've been around for a long time. Is that. The work that I do must affect more than the bottom line because it's not the transaction, it's the testimony. So I have spent decades making a lot of money for some very ungrateful people. What I want to do now is help people to create their own economies and get paid their value for their expertise. Those are the people that I want to work with. And I had to check a person. recently at a large conference I attended about 10 days ago. And that person said to me, okay, well tell me about the women that you work with. And I almost jumped over the table at it. The majority of my business has been spent working with men and basically white male business owners. I do of course work with women. I have a different program for them. But for majority of the people who keep my lights on, do not look like me through gender, generation, or geography because I'm giving them the knowledge that they're not getting from their buddies. And I am holding them accountable in ways that other people don't. I'm not trying to make friends. I know how to make friends. I've been doing that for ages. I want to help you make money.
speaker-1: did a different program for women, if you don't mind me asking.
speaker-0: No, it's not a problem you asking me that. When I'm working with the women that I'm working with, women have certain habits they need to offload. We are raised to be of service. We are raised to react to peer pressure. And those are things that I have to get them to let go of because it does not serve them. I was a single parent of two children. My parents told me when they disowned me, no good man will ever want you and you'll be working the streets in six months. three years, I was out earning my management level father. I had the company car, I had the credit cards, and I had the title. And that was because I knew what I needed to create by being the fly on the wall in rooms where I was not expected. So like I said, you know, my clients say to me frequently, you're on point, you're concise. Yeah. Because it doesn't take all day to resolve something. And again, I'm not going to get into a relationship where I want it more than you do. So if you're willing to do the work, I'm willing to work with you. You have to understand that I'm going to tell it to you. I'm completely unfiltered and I'm unapologetic about that. I am relatively PC. My family is African American, Italian, Italian, Irish, and LGBTQ. So I speak across gender generation and geography. I am more than willing to hear what they are looking for and to craft the solution into their listening. And that's something that I bring to the stages when I speak. just got through doing something recently for the World Organization of Credit Unions. And my topic for them was how to lead while learning because that's something that as I tell my students, I give you the stuff that's in between the pages. All right. So I hope that was helpful.
speaker-1: Yeah. You alluded to the book you wrote last year, but in preparing for our conversation, I found one of the other books that I'm really curious about when I get you to talk about it, because the title just jumps out at you. The book is called, You Lost Me at Hello. Yeah.
speaker-0: You me at Hello, Actionable Principles that Move You Beyond Networking. And both of my books were written because I get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. So I'm like, you know, for 15 bucks, you too can have the answer to this particular thing. So when I talked about you lost me at Hello, the first chapter, what I say is, first of all, not everyone is going to like you. And you really don't want them to because it's too time consuming. Face it, you don't want to be that huge brand doing the global tours and having all of these people hang on you. That's not what you're looking for. What you're looking for, and the reason you chose to do what you do, at least the people that I work with, is you're looking to make a difference in a very specific way. Those are the people you want to connect with. It's just too time consuming to try and feed the world. And so when you are able to determine where you fit in, and then I have people who are like, yeah, but Donna, I don't know how to, when I go into an event, talk to people that I don't know. Yes, you do. You learned how to do that when you were a baby in the crib, you knew who to cry for and who to smile for. That was your first sales job. Well, if I don't know them, how do I get in contact with a person who's like way up here? And I think they think they're here. Terrific. Stand next to them. Listen. And then when they take a pause, say, John, I couldn't help but overhear what you were just saying. I would love to have a conversation with you further regarding your opinions on this and also how I might be able to. Leverage that would you be willing to have a conversation with Rick? Because you fed into their expertise. Who do we like to talk about? Okay, Just remember that you do not need to be the smartest person in the room and The only people you need to connect with are your people own your value Consistently communicate your competence and you will be able to grow your community, your platform and your revenue.
speaker-1: Before I let you go, how can people connect with you, engage with you and your company and your services?
speaker-0: First of all, they can go to my website, which is www.askdsb.com. I didn't come up with that. We did it over a decade ago and my client said, hey, look, if we have a challenge, what do we do? We ask DSB. I'm like, okay, fine. I can get with that. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Donna Smith-Bellinger on LinkedIn. And I talked about yes, demonials, please. Take a look at the 40 plus recommendations that I have. You will see that I probably can assist you with the challenge that you have. I also have a YouTube channel. So any of those areas, if you need to get what I call a little bit of Donna free, then go into the YouTube channel. If you would like to have a conversation with me, ask DSB. If you need a speaker who will not put your audience to sleep, but will move them into action, there we are.
speaker-1: And how can they get the books if they're interested in that?
speaker-0: go to bellingerbooks.com. B-E-L-L-I-N-G-E-R-B-O-O-K-S.com. You will see both my books and my award winning sci-fi writer husband's books on that challenge. I mean, on that platform, I'm sorry.
speaker-1: Thank you, Donna. We'll leave it there. if you enjoyed today's conversation, please go ahead and like and subscribe and share it with your friends. I'll see you next time.
speaker-1: Welcome back everybody to another edition of Behind the Story. Today I'm joined by Dr. Donna Bellinger. Dr. Donna, thank you for joining me on Behind the Story.
speaker-0: It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.
speaker-1: Well, as I'm in the same position of most people, meeting you for the first time, most people in our audience anyway, meeting you for the first time. So take me back to the beginning. How did everything get started for you? Or I should say, was there a pivotal moment in your life that led you into your current career and what you're actually offering to everybody?
speaker-0: I will keep this really brief because I've done this a number of times. I fell into what I'm doing right now accidentally on purpose. I had a child right out of high school. My family disowned me, told me no good man would ever want me. I'd be working the streets in six months. Within three years, I was out earning my management father. So now that I've got all of that garbage out of the way.
speaker-1: So tell me, who do you help? Who do you serve?
speaker-0: The that I serve are people who need to create their own economies. There is so much going on globally where we don't know really where we're going to show up this month, next month, a year from now, but we must be able to support the people who depend on us. And in order for us to do that, we have to do a couple of different things. Number one. We need to understand and acknowledge and communicate the value of what we are able to put out to other people. frequently when I'm working with business owners, they identify with the brand that they currently represent, whatever that brand happens to be. It can be their brand. It can be a corporate brand. But the bottom line is people are not traditionally buying the brand. They're buying you. So how do you communicate your value the way that you value what you're able to bring to other people and how you can best serve them to alleviate whatever their current challenge or pain may be? I've been in sales for a very, long time by looking at you. know longer than you've been circling the globe. I'm just going to say handsome.
speaker-1: I'm younger than I look, I promise.
speaker-0: I promise you, I'm probably older than I look. So here's the deal. Who do you choose to serve? What is the value that you want to bring to them? And also, I say this to my people frequently, work is what you do to finance who you choose to become. and through that home you choose to serve. So yeah, we want to get the money, but why do we want that revenue? What are we going to do with it? How are we going to pay that forward? And who depends on us to create that result? Frequently, what we wind up doing is just taking a look at, okay, this is what I need to do to not get fired. Okay. This is what I need to do to keep the lights off. And I had a conversation recently with my daughter and she says, yeah, but really, who do you want to be? Who do you want to be? So remember that your skillset is simply a tool to get you to where you want to be. And through that, who you choose to serve. Does that make sense for you?
speaker-1: It makes perfect sense. I read in your writings that you say business owners become the bottleneck. What does that mean?
speaker-0: Depending upon your age, you'll relate to this more than others. It is very important that you not drink the Kool-Aid, you know, if you're familiar with that term. It is not about your being the smartest person in the room. That's not what's going to do it for you. That is not what's going to grow your community, your culture. your value. So I need you to determine what it is you want to deliver to the people that you engage with and how you want to be perceived. Are you looking at your prospects and your clients as simply transactions or are you looking to make a difference? And I'm not calling anybody wrong, but you need to own whatever that particular truth is for you. Are you looking for transactions? Great. Then you know, the type of verbiage and the type of outcome you're looking for when you post or or when you do a talk or however that is if you're looking to build a legacy, that's a little bit different So you need to decide where you want to show up neither is wrong But they are decidedly different
speaker-1: How have you applied the lessons you've learned in sales to your personal life?
speaker-0: One of the most important things that I have learned in sales is that you must be what I call bilingual. You must be able to completely hear and process the challenge in the voice of the person you're addressing. So when I talk to my individuals that I'm working with, I'd say that when you walk into a networking event or platform or whatever, you're going to encounter three types of people. I use the acronym SPA. They are either suspects, prospects, or ambassadors. A suspect is someone you may be able to do business with, but not right now. A prospect is a warm conversation. Hey, you know what? I heard what you said. That seems to fit in with my challenge right now. Let's talk about it. Or the ambassador who's the person who may never buy from you, but they're able to introduce you into. Groups, organizations, or rooms that need to hear you and they are willing to put their reputation online to vet you. Quickly, I have a person that I've been working with for years and when I would walk into this individual's networking events or other events, that person would stop even in mid-sentence and say, the woman who just entered into this room, If you're trying to grow your business, don't leave here without getting her conversation, getting her communication, and also learning how to connect with her. And so that's an ambassador. That's, know, so suspects, prospects, and ambassadors. Because if you walk into a room where you know most of the people in the room, but they are not referring to you, they are not buying from you, you probably need a new girl. Just go ahead and bite the bullet and make the shift.
speaker-1: Is there a belief or something that you learned early in your career that as you progressed further into your career that you had to completely let go of?
speaker-0: One of the things that I had to let go of was self-sabotage. The first person that you need to sell on the value of your service, your business, et cetera, is you. So if you begin to have that kind of conversation where I am, I call it TOO, you're too, you're too young, you're too old, you're too inexperienced, you're too whatever that thing is, you got to get over yourself. So when I started out a long time ago, I had to learn that although this was not the face they were looking for, whether it was gender, whether it was age, okay, whether it was whatever, I had to get past that and be able to, one of my other favorite terms is consistently communicate my competence. What is my value? And even today, I have to tell you that I had a conversation with a client today and the gentleman that I was working with said, you know what I love about working with you, Donna? You keep it on point. You hold me accountable and you keep it brief because when I walk in, I know exactly what I want to cover. One, two, three, four. Tell me what I need to know so that I can move you forward. That's what you're paying me for. And I don't need to know who you love, who you like, what happened. That's not what you're paying me for. And when you are able to keep everything focused, when you are able to help them to create additional revenue, nothing else, age, gender, whatever, doesn't matter because you made the pains.
speaker-1: Yeah, smart business people focus on the bottom line and the ROI. So that all makes perfect sense. Let's dive a little deeper into sales for a bit and tell me what are the top three reasons that you have discovered that you see sales get stuck for smart business owners?
speaker-0: Poor hiring, poor hiring and poor promotions. If you are hiring people that fit your budget as opposed to your needs, that's a challenge. When you are promoting from within without providing them the requisite support and leadership and guidance, that's a challenge. And also when you are relying on a finite number of businesses to get you to your revenue goal. And we, a lot of us learned this, not everybody, because some of you are younger than others, but during COVID, a number of businesses taped because the businesses they had depended upon were no longer viable. So do not rely on one or two or three. businesses to be, you know, that linchpin for your business. Also, please continue to network and remember that when you network, it's still not about that somebody, anybody, everybody conversation. You know, the people, the individuals, the companies that allow you to provide your very best level service. I have a term that I trademarked that is called a yes-timonials. A yes-timonial, and I will just give your audience the formula for that, is this. When you reached out to me, what was the challenge? While we were working together, what did you discover or what changed for you? As a result of our working together, what changed? for your business and make sure that they qualify and quantify that. I have over 40 recommendations on LinkedIn. So if you look at DonnaSmithBellinger.com on LinkedIn, you'll find them. One of my most recent ones was a person who said, after having had four months of absolutely no sales, I found Dr. Donna. After working with her, I was able to create over four Transactions that ranged from $900 to $35k and as a result, I finished the year profitable. Haha! Finished the year profitable? Thank you. $35k. Thank you. What do your people say about the result that you are able to deliver to them that when someone sees that on your website, on LinkedIn, wherever you're posting it, they go, that is exactly what my challenge is. Perhaps I need to speak to this individual.
speaker-1: In regards to sales is generally speaking, what does a healthy pipeline look like?
speaker-0: A healthy pipeline looks like a sequence of individuals for whom you know you can deliver a stellar result and get that yes-simonial or that recommendation. Far too often I hear people say, I'm looking for somebody, anybody, everybody. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're lying to yourself. Now, if you know that the people that I deliver the best result for are Let's just go into real estate. People who are interested in buying properties that are $500,000 or $1 million or more. Now you have narrowed that niche. That person is not looking for first time home buyers. Okay. You see what the difference is? So if I say that I'm looking for owner operated businesses that have been in operation for over three to five years. and have not broken through seven figures. Now you know who I'm looking to meet. Don't waste your time talking to people for whom you cannot deliver your top level.
speaker-1: Are there any habits that sabotage a business's ability to have consistent revenue?
speaker-0: Yes. And again, first of all, when you are promoting from within and you do not support those managers, if you promote perhaps your best salesperson, well, that's nice, but nobody likes them. They don't know how to lead people. That was not a good move. If you are not holding yourself accountable, this is the second thing to determine.
speaker-1: What's
speaker-0: The process for your business, if you're just grabbing somebody, anybody, everybody, and I have a roofing company that I work with and they're like, okay, fine, but this is what I do and that's what I do. No, that's not what they need. They don't want to hear who you know and who you're connected to. Zone in on what their challenge is, what their pain is, and show them through stories or case studies. why you are the safe investment in order to solve their problem. Far too often we let ego get involved in this and it's not about ego. And another thing that happens is that you forget how you buy. You forget how you buy. So do you just want the buzzwords and the followers and all of that? Or do you want to vet that person so that you know? that they can solve your challenge. Don't name drop. And all of those other little things say, you know what, if you're telling me that this X is your challenge, I will tell you that I had a client recently and I was able to do this, this, and this for that client. Is that the outcome you're looking for? And they're going to say, yeah, that's exactly what I'm looking for. How did you do it? You don't tell them, I do the time out a lot. You don't tell them because that's what you get paid for. What you would probably want to say to them is, first of all, that was my client. Second of all, it's a highly customized solution. And number three, are you willing to have a conversation with me to make that happen? Frequently, businesses do not take the time to pre-qualify. So in pre-qualification, it's what is the challenge? How long have you had that challenge? What have you lost as a result of not solving that challenge? What would change for you when, not if, when we were able to resolve that challenge? These are questions that we don't take the time to ask. Does that help?
speaker-1: Yes, it does. When you first start working with a new client, specifically regarding their sales process, what's the first thing you look at in your audit?
speaker-0: The first thing I look at is what is their challenge? The things that I just covered with you? So it's like, okay, what is your desired outcome? If we decide that we should, again, we should work together, what would a successful outcome or what is your desired outcome in this engagement? Because that gives you an opportunity. to course correct whatever their expectations are and to make sure that their expectations are in alignment with what you are able to deliver. You're not trying to do something that's going to be heavy lifting. You know what you do well. Don't be afraid to walk away from something that is not your ideal.
speaker-1: In the context of your work, how do you define sales discipline?
speaker-0: And sales discipline is a couple of things. So number one, making sure that you're connected to the right prospect. And again, I can't say this often enough. This is an individual for whom you know you can provide your best outcome, your best work. Don't be afraid to refer them to someone else because that makes you their ideal referral source. All money is not good money. The second thing is to make sure that you're able to clarify the types of results that you have previously delivered so that you get what I call the bobblehead effect. Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. Yeah. Terrific. Thirdly, make sure they're willing to invest in resolving this. And the reason they're willing to invest in it is you have demonstrated to them what they are losing. by not resolving it, they losing clients, prospects, promotions, whatever. Clarify that so they can put a dollar amount on that and you are able to pay for yourself.
speaker-1: would you advise a salesperson follow up without sounding pushy or desperate?
speaker-0: If you properly pre-qualify that individual, if you go through what is it costing you, what would change for you? Okay. And you get them to admit where they are falling short financially. What will change for them either in their life or in their finances or in their career. Then every time you talk to them, you want to say things like, okay, well, you know. The last time we talked, you told me that your biggest concern was you missed a promotion. You missed a big deal. Whatever. What else is going on and what has that cost you? Make them say it out loud and not that stuff that they're saying to other people. Yeah, well, he just wasn't the right client. Baloney, okay? What is it that he needed that you did not?
speaker-1: Can you advise someone who says, for example, I'm great at presenting, I'm great at delivery, but I hate selling?
speaker-0: then they need to determine what the purpose is for their business. Is the purpose of their business to create a speaking platform? Fine. Then that's what you're going to pursue and you're going to look for paid speaking engagements. However, when I work with coaches and other sales experts and businesses, it's like, what do you want people to do? What action do you need them to take? as a result of having been in your space, and are you providing them a roadmap to that end?
speaker-1: much of sales performance is mindset, skills, or the system?
speaker-0: That's a very interesting question. first of all, it's mindset because as I said before, the first person you have to sell on the value of your service or your product is yourself. The second thing that you must be able to do is communicate that value into the listening of the person that you address. It's not about you being the smartest person in the room. I absolutely adore my husband. But he's a geek, he's a nerd. And when we first started working together, even before we were married, and I would say, well, this is what you need to say, or that is what you need to say. And he said, but that doesn't make sense. I'm like, no, it doesn't make sense to you, okay? However, when you're speaking to these different individuals, what is their logic? Capsulizes my students, I'm an adjunct. And what my students call a data-ism is if they're not buying what you're selling, sell them what they're buying. Okay. You have to wrap your solution into their processing. Are they visual? If you're in real estate and looking for the white picket fence and being close to a school and all these other little things, or are they looking for the revenue bar? What is it that's most important to that individual? And that component of your offering or your solution is what you need to communicate into the conversation. Otherwise, they don't care.
speaker-1: advise people on handling rejection without spiraling out of control, getting depressed, changing their offers? What does that advice sound like?
speaker-0: Again, the first person you have to sell on the value of your business is you. Secondly, it's not personal, it's business. Two things you can do. Number one, and I train my people to do this regularly. If someone says no, say, okay, I completely understand that, but to help me to get better, what would have made it a yes? Ask them, you already don't have it. You have nothing to lose. What would have made it a yes? Frequently you will find that the dog bark the doorbell rang they blinked they missed it Because that's how we all are phone conversations zoom whatever next always when possible Have your sales calls on zoom or another platform so that you have the opportunity to review it and see where the disconnect occurred. If you're watching the body language and the cadence of the person you're addressing, you will be able to see where you lost control or interest in that conversation. And when I work with my people, I always encourage them to record those so that we can review them together and I can point those things out to them.
speaker-1: Yes and as a salesperson if I'm hearing this sounds great let me think about it. What's my next move?
speaker-0: Okay, so again, it's like, I'm happy that it sounds great. I'm happy that you need to think about it. What aspect of our conversation was not clear for you? You will find out then a couple of things. Is this indeed the person who has the power to make the decision? You may not be talking to the decision maker. And again, revisit the value of what you are offering to them. Okay, well, know, John, you told me that you lost this promotion. You lost this deal. You're spending too much time going into doctor's appointments. You're losing opportunities due to X. All right. Again, once this is resolved, ever if, once we resolve this, what will change for you? And what about that change is not resonating.
speaker-1: So it's almost, not almost, you're dealing with it directly to get the answer. That way you can address whatever it is, is the underlying.
speaker-0: looking back behind me but I don't have it near me. I have a book that I wrote and I released it in the fourth quarter of last year and it is called Sales is Not About Wait and See. Do you want to get paid now or eventually? And that's what the crux of this conversation is. Do you want to go ahead and find out who you need to chase? ⁓ I don't chase anybody. Or do you want them to just admit yes I'm in or yes I'm out? You know, as I tell some of the people, can't be a little bit pregnant. Okay. You're either in or you're out. How important is this to you? And as I've told some of my clients, I can't want this for you more than you want it for yourself. Very. You know what your time is valued at. So you don't want to keep chasing people and having meeting after meeting after meeting. And briefly, I will tell you, I had a client who was going through a conversation with a very major athletic brand. They called me and they said, we have had three meetings so far and they now want to have another meeting. And I said, look, what is your value per hour? And they told me, I said, so that times three is how much they told me. I said, great. Look, John, I have already invested X number of dollars of my company's resources in this dialogue. Are you ready to make a commitment? They walked away with the contract. And believe me, it was a substantial contract. But don't be afraid to stand up. The more you vacillate, the less they value you. You are a business owner, not a peddler. Do what you need to do.
speaker-1: asked great advice because I had a mentor that used to say that he never took free meetings, ever. The meeting cost a fee and if you hired him, the fee was discounted, the cost of the meeting was discounted from the service that he's going to provide because his attitude was time has a certain amount of value and I'm not going to do free. And he was in advertising and he said because what lots of the major corporations would do is they would have their ad agencies And then once a year they would send out a communique to all the other agencies and say, ⁓ come in and present to us. And we're looking for somebody and they get all these great ideas and they say, ⁓ we changed our mind. We're going to stay with the current agency. And then they tell the current agency, Hey, here's all the good ideas you need to be doing for us. So I haven't gone through that experience. He said, I never do free. just can't do it because my time has value. My knowledge has value. you.
speaker-0: have to tell you that that's the reason I tell my clients all the time that I'll be polite. Proposals are BS. I do not allow them to do proposals. Here's what you do, a scope of work. But how you do what you do is what you get paid for. When you go in to talk to a medical professional or any other type of professional, you're paying for their expertise. You know, your plumber may come in and be with you for 10 minutes, but you're going to pay what they charge. or the expertise. And far too often, you will find business owners and salespeople downloading their entire playbook to try to appear to be the smartest person in the room. And this is, and I know that your mentor knew this. They go and try to implement things that you told them and when it fails because They don't have the expertise to implement it properly. They say, but I got it from ABC corporation. So they must not know what they're talking about. You absolutely, positively never give them your intellectual property. That's the expertise that you get paid for. Thank you so much for bringing that up.
speaker-1: Do you have a preference in your business of who you work with as far as you work with businesses or individuals or salespeople? Is there a preference? ⁓
speaker-0: My preference is what I do not do. That makes it really simple. I do not do hospitality. I do not do retail. So I do a lot of work with professional services. I do a lot of work with franchises, real estate, things like that. Because frequently I'm running into people who are what I call order takers. When the person calls them, they know, okay, I need to buy a house. I needed to be here. Okay, fine. but you don't know how to move it beyond the transaction. So like I said, I'm working with roofers and contractors and, and a lot of other types of businesses. I prefer working with owner operated businesses. The mission statement for my particular company, which I have been doing for years. I'm just going to tell you, yeah, I've been around for a long time. Is that. The work that I do must affect more than the bottom line because it's not the transaction, it's the testimony. So I have spent decades making a lot of money for some very ungrateful people. What I want to do now is help people to create their own economies and get paid their value for their expertise. Those are the people that I want to work with. And I had to check a person. recently at a large conference I attended about 10 days ago. And that person said to me, okay, well tell me about the women that you work with. And I almost jumped over the table at it. The majority of my business has been spent working with men and basically white male business owners. I do of course work with women. I have a different program for them. But for majority of the people who keep my lights on, do not look like me through gender, generation, or geography because I'm giving them the knowledge that they're not getting from their buddies. And I am holding them accountable in ways that other people don't. I'm not trying to make friends. I know how to make friends. I've been doing that for ages. I want to help you make money.
speaker-1: did a different program for women, if you don't mind me asking.
speaker-0: No, it's not a problem you asking me that. When I'm working with the women that I'm working with, women have certain habits they need to offload. We are raised to be of service. We are raised to react to peer pressure. And those are things that I have to get them to let go of because it does not serve them. I was a single parent of two children. My parents told me when they disowned me, no good man will ever want you and you'll be working the streets in six months. three years, I was out earning my management level father. I had the company car, I had the credit cards, and I had the title. And that was because I knew what I needed to create by being the fly on the wall in rooms where I was not expected. So like I said, you know, my clients say to me frequently, you're on point, you're concise. Yeah. Because it doesn't take all day to resolve something. And again, I'm not going to get into a relationship where I want it more than you do. So if you're willing to do the work, I'm willing to work with you. You have to understand that I'm going to tell it to you. I'm completely unfiltered and I'm unapologetic about that. I am relatively PC. My family is African American, Italian, Italian, Irish, and LGBTQ. So I speak across gender generation and geography. I am more than willing to hear what they are looking for and to craft the solution into their listening. And that's something that I bring to the stages when I speak. just got through doing something recently for the World Organization of Credit Unions. And my topic for them was how to lead while learning because that's something that as I tell my students, I give you the stuff that's in between the pages. All right. So I hope that was helpful.
speaker-1: Yeah. You alluded to the book you wrote last year, but in preparing for our conversation, I found one of the other books that I'm really curious about when I get you to talk about it, because the title just jumps out at you. The book is called, You Lost Me at Hello. Yeah.
speaker-0: You me at Hello, Actionable Principles that Move You Beyond Networking. And both of my books were written because I get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. So I'm like, you know, for 15 bucks, you too can have the answer to this particular thing. So when I talked about you lost me at Hello, the first chapter, what I say is, first of all, not everyone is going to like you. And you really don't want them to because it's too time consuming. Face it, you don't want to be that huge brand doing the global tours and having all of these people hang on you. That's not what you're looking for. What you're looking for, and the reason you chose to do what you do, at least the people that I work with, is you're looking to make a difference in a very specific way. Those are the people you want to connect with. It's just too time consuming to try and feed the world. And so when you are able to determine where you fit in, and then I have people who are like, yeah, but Donna, I don't know how to, when I go into an event, talk to people that I don't know. Yes, you do. You learned how to do that when you were a baby in the crib, you knew who to cry for and who to smile for. That was your first sales job. Well, if I don't know them, how do I get in contact with a person who's like way up here? And I think they think they're here. Terrific. Stand next to them. Listen. And then when they take a pause, say, John, I couldn't help but overhear what you were just saying. I would love to have a conversation with you further regarding your opinions on this and also how I might be able to. Leverage that would you be willing to have a conversation with Rick? Because you fed into their expertise. Who do we like to talk about? Okay, Just remember that you do not need to be the smartest person in the room and The only people you need to connect with are your people own your value Consistently communicate your competence and you will be able to grow your community, your platform and your revenue.
speaker-1: Before I let you go, how can people connect with you, engage with you and your company and your services?
speaker-0: First of all, they can go to my website, which is www.askdsb.com. I didn't come up with that. We did it over a decade ago and my client said, hey, look, if we have a challenge, what do we do? We ask DSB. I'm like, okay, fine. I can get with that. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Donna Smith-Bellinger on LinkedIn. And I talked about yes, demonials, please. Take a look at the 40 plus recommendations that I have. You will see that I probably can assist you with the challenge that you have. I also have a YouTube channel. So any of those areas, if you need to get what I call a little bit of Donna free, then go into the YouTube channel. If you would like to have a conversation with me, ask DSB. If you need a speaker who will not put your audience to sleep, but will move them into action, there we are.
speaker-1: And how can they get the books if they're interested in that?
speaker-0: go to bellingerbooks.com. B-E-L-L-I-N-G-E-R-B-O-O-K-S.com. You will see both my books and my award winning sci-fi writer husband's books on that challenge. I mean, on that platform, I'm sorry.
speaker-1: Thank you, Donna. We'll leave it there. if you enjoyed today's conversation, please go ahead and like and subscribe and share it with your friends. I'll see you next time.