Behind The Story Show
Welcome to Behind The Story (BTS) Podcast: Exploring the deeper journeys of entrepreneurs, athletes, artists, creators, and leaders, Behind the Story is a weekly deep dive into the minds of extraordinary people. Each episode uncovers the strategies, innovations, and personal experiences that drive success-revealing the lessons, creativity, and resilience that shape their impact and inspire growth.
We invite you to join us as a featured guest as we explore and tell compelling stories, one conversation at a time.
Behind The Story Show
Gerard Barnes: The Man Who Built A Battle Show for AI Music Producers
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Gerard Barnes is back on Behind the Story — and this time, the conversation goes deep into the world of AI music.
Gerard is the creator of A-Idol, a TikTok-based AI music battle competition where producers from around the world go head-to-head using nothing but their imagination and a machine. Think American Idol — but the artists are the producers, the instrument is AI, and the competition is fierce.
In this episode, Jelani and Gerard explore the real story behind A-Idol's creation, what it actually takes to be a great AI music producer, how Gerard is helping businesses, brands, and older artists find relevance again through AI, and why the old arguments about "real music" keep showing up every time the industry evolves — from sampling to autotune to AI.
They also get into a song that made Gerard cry live on camera, why his famous father Sidney Barnes now has his own AI-produced album, and why Gerard believes the imagination is the most important instrument in music today.
This one is for creators, music lovers, entrepreneurs, and anyone who's ever been told that the new thing isn't real.
Follow Behind the Story on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube. Watch A-Idol live on TikTok @UncleFeeelGood.
Personally speaking, deep down in their soul, they know the truth that uh times have changed. Back then they were using stoves, today they're using microwaves, and we'll never go back to using the stove again. So uh deep down they know that this is the way to go, and I think they would want to be part of something that's relevant to make them relevant instead of always defending them and protecting their past. The past is gone, the future is here, and AI music is the future.
SPEAKER_01Gerard, you're back on Behind the Story to talk about something a bit different than what we last talked about when you were here, something that you created, AI Idol.
SPEAKER_00What led you to create this show? Well, it was the fact that I was uh when we first talked, I was dabbling into AI music and attaching an addio tone to it, which allowed me to have access to AI platforms and create AI music, but I had nowhere to publicly, you know, expose the music. So I went on TikTok just to play my music and found out there was a whole new world of AI music producers out there. So with that being said, we all came together playing our music, and the question came to me from the producers can we battle each other? And from there, A Idol was born. I didn't have a name for the platform, it was just um AI music battling. And then from there I wanted to promote it, and I found out that A Idol was a good name to use.
SPEAKER_01Why'd you use that name? It's sort of it it sounds as though it's copied from American Idol.
SPEAKER_00Was that on purpose? That was definitely on purpose. It was definitely to get people to understand inside of the name what it actually means. It's a competition. Um I knew I couldn't use American Idol, so I just kind of stuck with A-Idol. Or or at first it was AI Idol. So um I just shortened it to A Idol, and so far it has stuck in people's minds.
SPEAKER_01So you have you have a music background, your family, your dad, obviously, and you've been in bands before. How does that reconcile in your head that you were an actual quote unquote real musician and now you're doing this AI thing? How do you reconcile that in your head?
SPEAKER_00Well, to be honest, so AI music actually gives people that are older, people that are no longer in the game, some relevance to where you can if you're creative, AI will allow you to be creative, more creative, because it can do just as much as having a band, having a studio, having a producer, an engineer. So it actually brings out the creativity more.
SPEAKER_01I remember when I was younger and rap first came out, and they were using samples, for example. And I remember the older folks saying, Oh, that's not real music, you're not playing anything, you're just sampling. And now I see in the public where real musicians are saying, Oh, it's AI, it's not real music. The the conversation sounds the same. How does it how do you view it from a musician perspective as it relates to back in the day when people were actually sampling like James and and all the other, you know, older people to not use an AI? How do you compare the two?
SPEAKER_00Well, we both know that that was a thing where musicians frowned on sampling and uh auto-tune, and it's pretty much the same thing. Those that are live in the AI music bubble, we see that happening. We get the backlash, there's oppositions, there's people that are just against it totally. So, so much uh that they are ostracizing it. But when you grow up in a world of music, you understand that there's definitely going to be changes in the music industry, and you just have to learn to adapt. And eventually everyone will start understanding that this is uh a revolution and music has evolved.
SPEAKER_01Before you launched it, were you afraid of anything? Was there anything that gave you pause?
SPEAKER_00You mean the A-Idol? Yeah, not at all. Uh, it was people, producers that gravitated to me immediately. Alexandra Song Smith, Brown 360, Arena, Marvin Myers. I just got to give them a shout out. Tree Milan, 16, Shadow Wolf, CJ Ray, Raina Hitter. All of these producers came to me with the same mindset, like, let's build something. So I wasn't afraid at all. I'm never afraid. Um, I have no fear, I'm a risk taker. So I took the risk and it exploded within a week.
SPEAKER_01Do you remember the the moment when you when the idea first hit you? I do. Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_00I do. The moment it hit me was when I had all of this music and I'm playing it for my friends and family, and they weren't receiving it well because to them it was just AI music, it's not real music, and so forth. And I said, I have to find a way to um let other people hear it to where I'm not being judged, and I can play it in its entirety. And that was the the day I just turned on TikTok, I made an account, and I start playing my music.
SPEAKER_01Let me ask you this. So, full disclosure, you wrote, you created, I should say, the theme song for Behind the Story. It's played at the beginning of the show, at the end of the show. How take me through how you created that? Was that your voice, or was that all AI? Was it a combination? Take me through how you produced and created the music for Behind the Story.
SPEAKER_00Well, back when I did do Behind the Story uh jingo, I was an amateur. Okay. Because a lot of time has passed.
SPEAKER_01So you're saying my stuff isn't professional?
SPEAKER_00No, as far as my production skills go, I have fully advanced to from where I was in the beginning.
SPEAKER_01So am I going to get a remix of the behind the story soundtrack uh music pretty soon?
SPEAKER_00Why won't you stick with what you have?
SPEAKER_01Well, you said that that was when you were learning, and now you're much more professional, so I want the updated remixed version.
SPEAKER_00Just as easy, you know, just as easy as I can uh provide you that one, I can provide you an updated version, just as easy. I'm much better at it than I was before. You gave me that opportunity to do a jingo to see if I had the capabilities of doing it. And I proved to myself, I'm good at this. Yeah. So I've been getting accounts from other businesses because of you, to where they're saying, make me a jingo. And uh now my skills have um improved. And yeah, the process basically is to lend my voice to say what I want to say, okay, and throw it into AI and talk to the machine. Give it, give it your DNA, what you're looking for. When you told me what you were looking for, I fed it into AI. And to my surprise, it it didn't take long for it to spit out something that was really good for me to present to you.
SPEAKER_01Most people who hear it say it sounds relevant for the show. That the theme, the how it sounds, it's relevant for the show, which makes sense because I gave you the prompts that you put in to the AI to get it created. So how does dad feel about it? And and for people who are watching and or listening and seeing you for the first time, just briefly tell them who your dad is so they understand why I'm asking you how does your dad feel about AI music?
SPEAKER_00Well, uh, to be honest with you, everyone understands where we are now. But uh, I'll say maybe a year ago, no one knew where AI music was going except me. And that's why I put a patent on the structure of how to use AI music and how to sell the license to use it. But um, my dad lived with me when I first dived down that rabbit hole. And he thought it was great, he thought it was excellent, but he's old school songwriter. Right. Old school producer. But now he is deeper into AI music than I was. Hmm. Than I am, actually.
SPEAKER_01So wait, are you saying then we're going to have a Sydney Barnes AI produced album?
SPEAKER_00No, I'm not saying we're going to have. I'm saying we have an AI, Sydney Barnes produced album. Oh, you already did. Yes, he does. And a radio station.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I have helped many people open their eyes to AI music. And uh it seems like I'm a trendsetter. If I do something, people kind of look over the fence and see how well I'm doing and see if it's being received. And so far, I've succeeded in uh bringing on people, bringing people on on board.
SPEAKER_01When you when you told people who are close to you that you were going to set up the show, what was what was the feedback you caught?
SPEAKER_00Like what were they saying? No one really said anything because uh they know I I'm always on that side of the camera for something, doing something. My dad, um Sidney Barnes, is uh famous songwriter and great at uh understanding music trends. And he he knew that this was gonna work for me. Um he he loves me as a personality. As you could see, I'm I'm just a personality. I love the camera, and uh I knew it was gonna work because anything I touch, it's it has to work because of who I am. How do you see AI producers?
SPEAKER_01Like, if I asked you how do you see them? Do you see them as musicians, composers? Like, how do you see AI producers?
SPEAKER_00I see AI music producers as very confident people in what they do. They're very competitive. They don't accept mediocre style music. They always bring their best because they know that they're being watched and people are going to judge them. So they slap them in the face and say, look, I can produce the best music out there compared to what's already out there. So they're bringing their A game. They're the best I've ever heard. I enjoy listening to their music, Jelani, because I've never heard so much good music being produced by these AI music producers. I haven't.
SPEAKER_01You know, I I've seen lots of negative comments about AI produced music online. And one of the challenges I always tell people is if you didn't know it was AI produced, would you think it was good?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And a lot of times the answer is actually, yeah, it's actually good. So then I say, then who cares? Long as as long as you're enjoying it. But I I have something that for you I want to put forward to you and and and and live when you talk to your audience about it. So you've got the AI, uh, AI idol, you've got these these brilliant producers according to you, coming up with this, uh, these interesting songs. I suggest, because you're in Las Vegas, that's where you live, that's where you're based. Yes. I suggest you have the finals in person in Las Vegas, but not just have the AI producers, have singers perform the producers' songs that are entered in the finals. So now what you've done, in my opinion, is incorporate more of the human element into the competition. So now you've got these AI producers, composers, here's their songs, and they're competing in the finals live in in Vegas in front of an audience, and actual real singers and performers are going to perform the songs in the same way they were created live to be judged.
SPEAKER_00What say you? Here's the thing I have with that. I've never heard that ideal, and I love it, because we are stuck. We are actually stuck to where we are artists, AI music producers, and only thing that we can do is what we're doing now. It's play it behind a screen and people judge the song. I expose the names of the producers, but no one has ever presented something to where what if someone else sung your song in a competition, which doesn't matter, like you just mentioned, doesn't matter who the singer is or who the song is because they're all good songs. Right. And I think it's uh a show worth having, and it could be very competitive. And I think you just started something here. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. More, more, more to come. Maybe you'll make an announcement in one of the future uh lives of A Idol that you have the impressive competition. I'm volunteering to be one of the judges. Okay. Uh definitely volunteering to be one of the judges. But let me let me ask you this, and I don't want to put you on the spot and make any of the other producers feel bad. But since you started doing this, do you have a favorite producer where you see his stuff, you're just excited? I do. What's his name? Who is it?
SPEAKER_00Well putting you on the spot now. It's Alexandra, Song Smith, Streamalon, Rainer, CJ, 16, 36 Chambers, LL. I can go O'Marvin, Myers, Jason. They're like my favorite kids. All of them. I don't have one favorite because they all specialize in something. Do you have a favorite song by any of them that was created? Well, I do. And it's A Mother's Love by Song Smith. And the reason why that is my favorite song is because he added an emotional element to where I actually cried online, and so did everyone else. So everyone that's talking about there's no uh emotion and nothing human inside of these songs, I challenge that. These AI music producers have mastered putting the human element into the AI music.
SPEAKER_01As soon as you said that, I knew why that would resonate with you. And going back to your thing, I am motherless. So as soon as you said that, I I I could have guessed that that's why that would have resonated with you. What has surprised you the most about the AI music producer community?
SPEAKER_00That they're very emotional. That has surprised me the most. I have over 10,000 songs. I've been manufacturing these songs for businesses for over 50 businesses for over a year, consistently, and accumulated all these songs. I don't get emotionally attached to the songs because it's about numbers for me. Whereas these new AI music producers throw in their personal life. They have to write about their lives, which makes it easier to, you know, construct the song. And they are too emotionally attached. That's what surprises me. It's just the song, however, they uh put the personal touch to it, which now says, yes, there is a human element to these songs. So that surprised me the most.
SPEAKER_01How does somebody get into A Idol? Like what's the process from the start? How does someone get into it?
SPEAKER_00Have enough content, have enough material to be able to battle and just have confidence.
SPEAKER_01How much is enough content, for example? One song, five, ten, how much would be enough?
SPEAKER_00Uh depending, uh I would say a good 20 songs. Okay. Have have 20 songs on standby because if you advance, then you become prone to throw more songs out there.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00But if you don't think you're that good, if you don't have the confidence, you know, you don't need a lot of songs because you're not gonna last. And these uh music AI music producers are brutal.
SPEAKER_01So, for example, reflecting back on the original American Idol, they sing a different song every time. Is it is it the same where they have to put forward a new song every time they can't. For example, if they won the first round, they do not get to put the same song in the second round, I'm assuming. That is correct.
SPEAKER_00That is correct. Um, I kind of use American Idol as my template and um the voice. When I when I audition, it is a blind audition because I don't want it to be biased. I don't want everyone to say that's my favorite guy. I want you to judge the song. And then after the audition, once they make it in, then they are exposed as to who they are, and then everyone can say I like him or I like his song. So uh we we leave that up to the chat and the audience.
SPEAKER_01When somebody watches A Idol, like me, I'm not a producer, I'm just watching. What do you want me to take away? What what do you want me to feel about AI produced music?
SPEAKER_00I want you to know that uh that is a safe place where people can uh compete and you feel like it's an event. Uh you feel the pressure that the uh music producers feel. I want you to understand that uh I want you to get upset. I want you to feel victory, I want you to uh be a part of the fan base. I want you to be surprised. I want you to uh not go in there thinking that AI music is not what it should be or can be. I want you to go in there and say, what is this? And leave there knowing that this is something big. Where do you think the real creative skill is with this AI producing? The imagination. Truly the producer imagination. Say more. Excuse me? Say more. Your imagination is different than hers, than his. That to me is the best element of what I what I uh have to offer for them. Show me what you have, who you are. And that actually separates everyone from the next person. So nothing actually sounds the like because two people are not.
SPEAKER_01So are you saying that from the creative perspective, it's your ability to describe the music verbally, as opposed to getting on a keyboard or guitar, for example. It's really, to use AI terminology, the prompt. Is that where the creativity lies in how great you are at describing what you hear in your head?
SPEAKER_00Correct. And you have to have some musical talent. You have to understand modulation, you have to understand verses, chords, hooks. To go into AI and say, make me a song, you will be exposed. We will be able to tell that you're just a hobbyist, you're not talented. So it once again, it goes back to imagination. What can I tell this machine to do that I could get back what's in my head?
SPEAKER_01How do you feel about AI music in regards to copyrights and publishing? The copyright office has been looking at AI-generated works and digital replicas and how much ownership do the actual AI producers have since it was not really created by them, it was created by the machine based on the prompts that they gave. What what's your thinking on that? Where do you think the copyright office should land on that? Is it just nobody owns it because it's AI, or do you think that the actual person that prompted the AI to create it is the owner of it?
SPEAKER_00Well, it sounds like you're asking what's right or wrong for the person. I personally think whatever rule the AI-generated platform uh issues, we should follow that. I don't think you should challenge that. Just be creative. Understand if you I and I don't deal with copyrights at all. So I don't all the other AI music producers, that's what they deal with. They're on uploading their songs and letting it go into the algorithm and to the uh cloud. I deal with music on a business level, to where when AI music makes songs, in order for them to make money, they must be able to sell it to different business ventures, different events, um, sweet 16 birthdays, doesn't have to be weddings. And my job is to provide a license, that's what my patent is for, for AI music producers to make money. As far as the copyright end, I stay away from that. I don't know much on the copyright because I don't deal in that area.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Do you worry about AI music being classified as spam eventually?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I see a lot of pushback. And whenever there's value to something, and there is value, millions of people are dabbling in AI music. Events and businesses are expecting to have it now. I expect pushback from anything in opposition from anything that has value. So, yeah, there's going to be pushback. I'm just waiting to see what comes next and then kind of pivot and work around it. How has this experience changed you? It has allowed me to help people, help people, and I'll give you some examples. I've had several recording artists that are older and have not been in the game, haven't had a hit in years. They've asked me to make them relevant again. I've uh produced two albums for people, and I keep hearing I'm a godsend, which is AI, you know, taking their uh old music and redoing it and revamping it to where they are relevant. Now they're out performing live. I see where AI music producers are hungry for making money and getting paid for their talent. I provide business opportunities for them. So it has changed my life because I'm in the business of helping people. I failed many times, but I've also succeeded a lot too. And that's one of the areas I succeeded in helping people.
SPEAKER_01See, I'm glad you said that, because that's where I know this is all subjective. Everybody has their own opinion. My opinion on it as a as a consumer, or even if I was a performer, is I would love the combination. Meaning, for example, I want to go back to hip hop in the beginning. I didn't care that they were sampling a bunch of stuff. What I cared about was when I showed up, they did what they what I heard. Yeah. So my thing is, these people that you said that you're regenerating their careers, for example, as long as I can go to the House of Blues and see them perform what I heard on the AI, I'm good. You know, I I think what they're doing is just doing it in a more economical way than hiring 20 musicians and a producer and a studio. You know, who cares? As long as Sydney, when I show up, Sydney is performing the songs that I heard on his AI produced album. What do I care? Yeah. Does anybody really show up to watch any of these artists just to watch their musicians or to watch the artists?
SPEAKER_00They show up to watch the artists, right? Well, that's the that's the platform that I have. I'm giving a name behind the songs. Most of the songs are pretty much just that. They're just songs. What's the story behind the song? Miles Davis once said the music sounds better once you know who's behind it. So I'm trying to, and succeeding at bringing a face to the music because pretty soon, Jelani, people are gonna stop saying, Oh, I want to hear great AI music. They're gonna stop saying that. And they're gonna start saying, Who's the producer behind that music? And that's what I'm doing. I'm providing that platform so they can have exposure, so they can in real time have people respond and they can see it and realize that their imagination has come to life.
SPEAKER_01On a personal level, when you think about A Idol, you think about working with the businesses, and you think about what you just mentioned in helping older artists become relevant again and working with your dad, having the radio station.
SPEAKER_00How do you feel? My TikTok name is Uncle Feel Good. It's in the name. I feel good at what I'm doing. I found my place. Well, as you know, uh music is my DNA. This is what I do, this is who I. I am, this is what I know. I feel very comfortable. It's not work. It's not a lot of effort. I show up every day and look forward to being around great AI music producers because they actually show me things that I I don't know about and I show them things that they don't know about. And I just feel like I finally found my place and I'm making money, but I have to help other people feed their family. And that's the goal.
SPEAKER_01I have a challenge for you. I know when I asked you about who's your favorite producer, you you listed everybody, but you were able to list and state who the favorite song. Correct. Refresh my memory. Tell me again. A mother's love. A mother's love. We're going to do another show. And I'm going to invite a good friend of mine, David Nickel, who he wrote for InSync. He's been on Disney's really brilliant singer. I want you to send me that song before the show. And I'm going to ask David to sing it live when we record. To reinforce, I'm trying to really sell you on the fact that you need to have the finals with live singers. And I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding you. We're going to have that. I promise you, on the next show we're going to record, and we're going to record it very soon. You're going to send me that song, and David will sing it live. So we can show the marriage between the AI producers and actual live entertainers who can sing. So maybe they can produce for people that are going to show up and play it live. Why not?
SPEAKER_00The marriage is already there, Jelani. We just need the proof of concept. Well, we're going to do it. And now we have this vehicle to promote it. I think that we will change the minds of people. And that's definitely needed.
SPEAKER_01If we ever do that show, I hope, and I'm going to keep selling it, obviously. Um, would you think that traditional producers and engineers would be good judges, or would they come with a bias of you're trying to replace me?
SPEAKER_00Personally speaking, deep down in their soul, they know the truth that uh times have changed. Back then they were using stoves. Today they're using microwaves, and we'll never go back to using the stove again. So uh deep down they know that this is the way to go, and I think they would want to be part of something that's relevant to make them relevant instead of always defending them and protecting their past. The past is gone, the future is here, and AI music is the future. And A idol platforms, there's plenty of other platforms, that is the new the new world we live in.
SPEAKER_01You know, I personally think, just based on personal choice, and what I like is that I remember back in the day when you went to the recording studio and if you use the drum machine, yeah, certain people would look at you as certain, using a drum machine, where's the drummer? And now pretty much everybody's using it's like not even a thing. If you didn't use a drum machine or whatever, you you you're not really, you know, using all the tools at your disposal. Not to say that the live drum doesn't add a certain thing because it it most certainly does does, but I go back to it's okay, do it in the studio, but when I show up live, I don't want to show up and watch a DJ. It's not a rave. I would like to show up and watch a band. What who's to say that a band can't play with the AI produced live and you can enjoy it with the real singer?
SPEAKER_00All of that is relevant and irrelevant. When you come up with the or bring to life the A-Idol live battle in Las Vegas, that will definitely expose the lie, the truth, the hidden agendas that you may have. It will show you that this thing is now. So was the drum machine, so was the auto-tune. I remember when autotune came out. I thought that was the biggest, worst gimmick I ever saw in my life. Now you can't do a song and expect a chart if you don't have the auto-tune in it. It's expected now. As far as businesses, as far as commercials, AI and songs, arcs.
SPEAKER_01And it would be much economically viable for the businesses because now they're not paying publishing and copyright for using music. They can have their own original music for the concept of their brand and the concept of their product.
SPEAKER_00And let me promote my services. I provide the AI music for franchises and businesses, Planet Fitness, Albersons, Super Supermarket. You can actually uh put together an AI song with the company's brand. What's down aisle 16? What's down aisle five? What's the special for today? Today is Tuesday, and you can do it all in song. So it's now going to be expected. And these AI music producers that I have, Jelani, are getting prepared for this breakout.
SPEAKER_01I could, I could, as you're speaking, two things came to mind. Lately, I go through different phases when I'm listening to music. You know, my ears are weird, you know. I grew up in the Caribbean, so my first is always calypso. So I love calypso, soca music, that's my thing. Then reggae, you know, but then I'm all over the charts with everything else, whether it's RB, old school, new school, rap, what I'm all over the thing. But lately, I've been listening to a lot of African-type samba music, right? And it wasn't until I was preparing for this show I realized I was listening to a lot of AI. I didn't know it wasn't real, it was that good. Yeah. And and that's the thing I want to challenge people. If you don't know it's AI, you could probably just enjoy the music. So check this. I have a question in in regards to to that. When you are setting up to work with a business, for example, are you like you did with me asking them what they want, and then you're tweaking it in the way that you know would work, or you're just simply going with just what they want to create it?
SPEAKER_00I have to go with what they want. Their DNA and their brand has to stand out. And I can't be emotionally attached to a song and go, I don't like that, or I like it. What's the purpose? The purpose is to have sound infrastructure playing to match the vibe of the business along with inputting brand information. Sound you can't turn off. So as they're walking through a business, they can't turn their ears off, but they cannot look at a sign. They can close their eyes, they can turn their head. But as long as that sound is going, I could capture whatever that business wants. I can't care if it sounds good to me. I have to care about what I am selling to the company, and that is sound, brand through sound.
SPEAKER_01Fast forward three years from now, and you're looking back. What do you want A Idol to have represented? Or the what sort of impact would you have liked it to have?
SPEAKER_00To change the way people look at AI music first and foremost, but to give the producers their just due. I want to be able to have the producers known as artists. In three years, I want Song Smith Alexandra to be a household name, to be someone that the music industry respects. And my platform is doing just that. It's showing, and I get a lot of people coming in watching the show. And when they watch the show, I get a phone call, text, or DM, and they're telling me what a great job I'm doing, and they like this song. They like this song. So it's actually working to where people are starting to get to know the name behind the song. And that's what I want in the next couple of years is for them to really get their just due because they do a fantastic job. So it's your belief that a idol could possibly find the next big star. Most definitely. We had a contest actually two weeks ago. It it failed. It failed miserably, just as any business does. You have to figure things out. And I was trying too many things, too many people in my ears, and it just tanked. I had everyone upset at me, not everyone. I had people upset at me, but then I had people that went, at least you're trying. We see the vision. Why why what about it didn't work? Like I started making too many changes because I had people in my ears saying you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that. And I rightfully so. I was listening to them because I had no clue what to do. And all of the input sounded good up here. But once I actually executed it, nothing came together. And it was uh it was a flaw. People stuck with me. They laughed at me. I laughed at myself. But like I said, a lot of people said, Oh, that's nothing. You know, some people are not even trying, but yet they have uh an opinion. And once they said that, then I realized I just have to keep trying. But it did not reach the level that I wanted to because of uh errors that I made. Errors that I made. So I have to be accountable for that. What'd you learn from that? I learned that I don't get mad. I I mean I I just don't have any emotion because I'm too focused on, you know, trying to make this a big thing. My dad asked me the same question. He asked me, What did you learn? And I said, I don't I don't get upset. I I wasn't emotionally attached to this, and I know people now. I know some people are in it to satisfy that ego, and some people are in there for the art. And the ones that are in there for the art, those are the ones I I love and I gravitate to. And that's gonna become big.
SPEAKER_01I think you reflect you should reflect incessantly on your moniker, Uncle Feel Good, because if it doesn't feel good to you, don't do it. It's what I've told you for years. People are going to gravitate towards you. Yeah. So even though it's not about you, it's about the producers, people are gonna gravitate, in my opinion, to your passion about it. And anybody that can listen to you talk about the AI producing and A idol can sense your passion and your joy. So if anybody is putting forward any sort of recommendations, if it doesn't feel good to Uncle Feel, there's your answer. That is good.
SPEAKER_00Because you don't have to worry about it, trust that gut. It's been working. Well, that's what I learned too, without even saying that was unspoken. And it was just part of something that I had to go through in order to test myself. And I honestly came up with the answer, Jelani, that I know what I'm doing. And I'm I'm just trying to please everybody, and that's when I've failed. Right. So and you know how that goes. I do. Yeah. So uh now I have a different way of constructing this A idol. It's more of an event now that I own. I have ownership in it, and I'm not gonna let everyone else influence me to drive it some other way that they want it to go without putting in the work.
SPEAKER_01What separates a real AI producer from somebody that's just entering prompts?
SPEAKER_00Confidence, value in what they're in the quality of the song. Um, have comp a competitive edge. The other side to that is people that are hobbyists. Listen to my song, it sounds good. There's more to that. There's more of that human element. Does it make you dance? Does it make you cry? How does it make you feel? If you don't feel, you can't present it to my platform because you'll be exposed that this is not something that you do, it's not who you are.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00So that's really the big difference there. And and and once again, our ears are trained. We can hear anything on the radio and go, that's AI. Or if someone comes into a room and says, Hey, play my song, Uncle Feel Good, we can tell that they're new. They just started, they're green, versus someone that has skin in the game.
SPEAKER_01Do traditional musicians misunderstand about AI music and AI production?
SPEAKER_00That they're gonna be replaced. They don't understand that uh we need them just as much as they need the AI platform as well. The AI platform was meant to be a guide for musicians, a template for you to take in a studio, for you to be in a studio, let's run it through AI and see how it sounds with strings. And then you take it from there. Wow, we can tweak the strings, let's add in a cello to that, see how it sounds. That was the purpose. But then people realized the AI platforms was doing the whole song for them, and they put the instruments down, and they was like, wow, I'm gonna do this AI thing. So a lot of musicians are uh now understanding that it's a friendly tool and it's not working against them, it works for them.
SPEAKER_01I just had another thought as you were speaking there in regards to my friend David that we're gonna have on the show next, who's a David's a brilliant singer. I mean, just brilliant singer. And I just thought, you know, one of the the ways that that he can use it is he's also a brilliant songwriter as well. He can literally create his songs, but then and be the AI producer, but he has the talent and the ability to actually show up live and sing the songs that the AI produced because he's got the talent. He could show up with just a track or a band can learn the music. And now he's performing his AI-produced album of brilliant songs that was created in a short period of time that he doesn't have to hire 10 musicians and producers to do it because he's got the talent to do it. And then all of a sudden, I'm sitting there watching a talented artist sing songs that I enjoy. I don't care who created it. Most times we don't know who the songwriters are anyway.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Do you care? Do you even care? But that's the one thing I stand ten toes down on. If I'm producing an album or song for an artist, the only way, and I tell them before they get there and after they leave my service, the only way you're gonna make money is uh perform this live. Ownership is what you need. Not uh can the AI keep ownership and you kind of wiggle your way around and try to make money. No, the only way to make real money is to perform it live. So I'm all for it. I preach that every day. I'm an advocate for live performance of AI songs because once you perform it live, it's no longer AI. It's just an AI guide that showed your band. And musicians are so talented, they're gonna add their own twist to it. Anyway, and that's the whole goal is to actually take AI music and just make it better than what it is. That's now that is going to be the challenge because you already have something great. Right.
SPEAKER_01There are about, I was reading earlier, there are about 75,000 AI tracks uploaded every day onto the internet. How would somebody rise above that with quality? Because that that's just a huge amount of quantity going up there every day. How does somebody, an AI producer, separate themselves from all that noise?
SPEAKER_00Don't know how they do it, but they do it. And they show up at my platform. The reason why I say how, I don't get into how did you make that song. They just show up. I have a gentleman from Milan. I'm sorry, Malaysia. His name is Sri Milan. He brings Indian influence Malaysian music. I have Alex. She brings Calypso, Hindu, Bollywood, and they mesh all of these genres together. That's how you separate yourself from the pack. But if you just push a button and say, give me hip hop, you're going to be in the herd. You're not going to stand out at all. What else can you imagine that that song could have that will just blow your mind? That's the secret. That's the secret sauce.
SPEAKER_01I'm waiting for somebody from Romania to do something because having lived there, I have fondness for that country that country, have family there, and they have like that Balkan style influence in their music and their pop music and stuff. I'd like to hear how that genre of music would sound with somebody from that genre producing it in AI. I'd love to hear how that would sound.
SPEAKER_00That's interesting you say that because you said Romania. I could get a guy from South Central right now that's an AI music producer to do it. To do it. So you wouldn't actually need someone from Romania because they may not be as good a producer as the guy in Compton, California.
SPEAKER_01Right. And that's what I'm alluding to. Somebody that's actually a producer that really understands that genre of music. Oh yeah. Because they would come up, they would come to it a bit different, differently than how the guy from South Central would, because of the influence of it. Sort of like I'll challenge any American to on Calypso. Yeah. I grew up on Calypso. I grew up singing Calypso and singing soca. I can go into there and create some serious soccer songs, you know, as opposed to somebody that just knows soccer music and knows calypso and saying, okay, and give it the prompt. It's just gonna have a different flavor from somebody who really understands it from an organic level is what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00I challenge that. Okay. I challenge that because this is what we do. We rehearse every day. They'll say, Uncle, what's the ingredients for today? Let's do Motown Irish song.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I want you to talk about driving in a red car and it turns into a balloon. Oh my God, it's mind-blowing. So to say that this person will not give you what you're asking for, I guarantee you, they will give you something you would never expect and blow your mind.
SPEAKER_01See, with my understanding of AI, I understand why you're saying that. Because AI is going to make up for the lack of what I know because it knows it. But my challenge, my pushback is even with that, I still bring extra at from an organic level. No, no, no. I get it. You get what I'm saying? So I I agree, I agree with you wholeheartedly. You know, having only stayed in Los Angeles. Right. But somebody from Bucharest or Constanza or Bistriza or one of these country places on Transylvania in Romania, they're going to have something that you don't have that you will also put in that the AI would expand upon. That's where I'm going with it.
SPEAKER_00And what did you say, Uncle Feelgood? What do you specialize in? I specialize in house music, Chicago style, um, New York, New Jersey, DMV, house music. So when people say, Uncle I made a house music song for you, this goes to back to what you're saying. They'll play a house song and I go, You could do it. I go, No, you're not giving it what I know house music to be from that era. So I get what you're saying, but will they be give you something that will tickle you? Yeah, you'll be like, oh, that's nice. That's nice.
SPEAKER_01So where do you see AI going, AI idol going as far as seasons? I already pitched you my live event idea. You're you talked about you've got uh AI radio station streaming. What about you know having these air producers not produce videos for their song?
SPEAKER_00Well, actually, we do videos. We have AI videos, it's just a matter of creating something like MTV.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00I don't have the names and they're giving me shorts of videos. I want the whole video, and I want to do an MTV style where I'm the VJ and uh yeah, promote that just like I'm doing A Idol. Where do I see A Idol going? Exactly where you said it was going. Live, lights, competitions, fan, community, voting, pressure, excitement. I see where it's going because it starts with me. And I can drive this ship to where it needs to go because I believe in what I'm doing. I'm not just doing this as a hobbyist. I'm not just doing it because I want to be validated. No, I do this because this is who I am.
SPEAKER_01What would it take for the traditional music industry to take an AI producer seriously or the winner of AI idols seriously, in your opinion?
SPEAKER_00Well, for me, just the fact that they understand structure. Uh pushing a button doesn't actually qualify you for an understanding structure. There's different elements, as you know, in songs. The hook, something catchy. It doesn't have to be vocals. It could be an instrument part that's very catchy throughout the song. Placing background vocals, call and response, they have to understand structure of song and not just make a great feel. And that's where they get caught up in. Oh, this song has a great vibe, a great feel. But if you're understanding structure, it doesn't carry, it doesn't check all the boxes. Right. So that's what I think it would take for the music industry to recognize these music producers. Hey, he understands music, but this is a new norm. He understands how to put it together, which is something another music producer can't do. And I think they have an advantage.
SPEAKER_01You've been doing this now solo on your own? Yeah. What sort of uh partnerships do you think would make sense for AI AI AI at all as far as to help boost the show? What sort of partnerships with businesses as far as sponsors, people placing advertisements on the show? What what like what's your wish list?
SPEAKER_00My wish list is um the tourism industry. If I can get people to travel to get here, then that to me would be the key. Hotels. I don't think there's car rentals anymore. So you you know, uh people with Toro, how can I get them to sponsor? Buy into it. Your uh platform will be promoted, restaurants, anything involving tourism that will attract the businesses when people travel to Las Vegas. I think that would help me. And I'm thinking on a small level, because that's not my area of expertise. But when just to answer your question, I would say anything involved in in tourism, trap cruises, for flights and so forth. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01What are some of the the things Do you have any sponsors that you Well, what I was gonna ask you uh to f to follow up on it was because uh obviously I'm not an AI producer, so I don't know. What are some of the things that an AI producer uses? Those would be the obvious sponsors. So, for example, let's just say I've never produced a song before, but I've written a song. Yeah. And normally my my um process is to write the song, give it to Gerard, and then Gerard goes and charts it and arranges it and whatnot. So I don't know anything about that, but I can write the song. I can write the hook, I can do that. How do I produce that song as an AI producer? What's my first step? How do you advise me?
SPEAKER_00First step is to understand what's relevant. The sound. What's the current sound today? What am I using for that? Specifically, what software am I using? Gotcha. That would be uh a host of many different platforms. Your favorite. Uh my favorite. Suno. Suno's my favorite.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so I'm going to use Suno. And what does Suno do for those who don't know, like me?
SPEAKER_00Right, right. Suno actually gives you the option the opportunity to bring your imagination of a song to life. It's usually that simple to explain to people that may not know about it. You have an ideal of a song? Yes. My daughter is graduating on her 16th birthday. I want to do a gospel-inspired choir-based song that talks about her being 16. But you tell the the platform what you want.
SPEAKER_01Do you give it lyrics too? Or no? That's an option. Ah, so you so it's like me being the songwriter, I would say, here's my song I wrote. Easy. Here is my idea. Do you then sing the melody if you've got that?
SPEAKER_00Because I wrote the hook. Do you do that too? Right. You can actually input your own voice, your own inflection, your own tone. It will duplicate your voice throughout the song.
SPEAKER_01Because the goal is that I want to perform this song live. So I want it to be my voice or you know, I want it to be my lyrics. So as a songwriter that's not a producer or an arranger, I can use it to arrange and produce the raw lyrics and melody I created.
SPEAKER_00Right. Using Suno. Right. Suno will allow you to become a producer. Okay. Not like the producer of old. This is the new wave to where you are now a producer. Once you open that computer, your laptop, and you subscribe and you input a song, you are now an AI music producer.
SPEAKER_01And let me ask you this. So, because when I consult with businesses with AI and I create the agents for them or the GPTs for them, it's learning as we go. So, for example, if we create an authority matrix, for example, for one of my clients, and we've got the authority matrix, I can go back in with the same authority matrix and say, hey, I want you to update it based on this. Does the songwriting, the producing work the same way where I've given it the instructions, it comes back, but there's something I want to change or I don't like. Am I able to just go back in and say, hey, add strings to this part or a trumpet or because I'm hearing that? Is it is it sort of like that?
SPEAKER_00It is like that. Uh to where you're you're not you don't want to use a a partner on AI platform like chat or Claude to create something for you.
SPEAKER_01No, I meant I was just using that as an example that I can do that from a business perspective. I'm asking if from the song perspective with Suno, can I tell Suno my updates based on what it spit out?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. It will spit out two songs for you, two versions. Okay. And if you don't like that version, you heard something that's missing, you heard something you want to update, it's really that simple. And you just update the prompt, update the lyric, you can change the words, you can change the style, make it weird. You know, there's a weird button. You can make it weird, and you will be surprised at what your imagination can do as far as producing an AI song with that platform.
SPEAKER_01So it sounds as though, just to be redundant, my imagination of what I'm hearing in my head is the key to what I can produce.
SPEAKER_00For example, and that's why you mentioned about the other um music companies. How would they feel about these AI music producers? They will look at the person who has the biggest imagination because it you'll be exposed. If you're limited on your imagination, it'll show up.
SPEAKER_01And you know, I I've I've remember being y when I was younger and hearing stories of singers who weren't writers, and they meet the producer for the first time, reflecting back my favorite group of all time, new edition. And I remember seeing Ricky in an interview talking about when they first met Jam and Lewis, and they were asking them what sort of song that you want. And he was he I remember him saying they wanted a song like Human League, Human League had had a song called I'm Only Human, that was written by Jam and Lewis. And they remember I remember him saying, Yeah, we wanted a song like Human League, and da-da-da. And that's how If it isn't love came about. So I was thinking, substitute Jam and Lewis for the AI and Ricky telling the AI, we want a song like this. Yeah. And they it's sort of like the same thing, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's exactly what I'm doing on a smaller scale. I'm Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. It's the black suit and a black. And the hat, yes, Dora. But when artists come to me, they say, make me relevant. They sit right here and I say, Let's start writing. And they'll tell me their story, their life. And while they're talking, I'm inputting all of this information into AI to say, you heard what they said. Make me the baddest song, RB, Neo Soul, whatever she or he wants, and let's go from there. Let's start on a with a template and then we work for it. What's next for AI, though? What's coming up? What's coming up is we have we're in battle mode right now. So we are battling, and the winner will take home the cash prize. It's $20 to sign up. So whoever wins will actually win the prize money. And everybody loves it. It's worth the $20. It's worth the time of people showing up every single day. On I must promote this. On Mondays, we do just strictly wedding songs. Tuesday, we do world songs. Wednesday is the actual competition. Friday is rock, country, bluegrass, folk, any kind of storytelling music. And Sunday is inspirational faith Christian music. How is the winner determined? Who are the judges? How does that work? Good question. Uh, I have a poll set up on YouTube. Uh, YouTube posts, you can um actually create polling. And you must do your marketing. You must bring your fan base. You don't just win off of uh song alone. You must get in the chat, you must talk trash, you must sway people to vote for you. You must do your own marketing. This is not one and done. Play a song, great vibe, you're gonna win. There's so much more to uh being an artist.
SPEAKER_01And that's so the public is actually judging the competition right now. The chat room determines who the winner is. So it's sort of like American Idol, because they've got the judges, but they also have the audience that calls in too.
SPEAKER_00So it's similar to that. And it stops people from being biased to where they um are um front and center and they're like, oh, I gotta vote for him because I know him. But what if that guy's song was better? So anonymously they can vote for that guy versus their friend, or they can offset somebody else in another battle by saying, Wow, they have more points than my friend. Let me not vote for that person and vote for the other person. So there's a lot of strategy involved, there's a lot of competition. It's fierce, and that excitement leads to pressure, and that pressure leads to excitement, and it's just a great platform to be on. Everyone's having fun. Where can people watch? They can watch it on TikTok under Uncle Feel Good. That's with three E's. And I'm on pretty much every day. Every day uh you will get to hear AI music producers just if it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be where I'm at today, Jelani. I'm no one. My songs compared to what they you'll never hear my songs play. You'll never hear my songs. Well, that will not be fair. You're the host. Not only that, man, these guys are so good at what they do. I just push out numbers. I don't push out quality. Okay. And when I say quality, if a brand says, I just want my song and this is what I want it to be about, then that's what it is. That's not quality.
SPEAKER_01It's not really that much of a creative process where the producers, they're really in the creative Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00They're battling against each other. I'm not battling with no one. I'm just presenting a product. So the quality, if you put mine compared to theirs, they they put me to shame. So I sit there every day and enjoy some of the best music I've ever heard in my life, Jeff.
SPEAKER_01Before we go, I'm gonna put two challenges out there. Well, one challenge. Okay. I'm gonna say for all of your followers that are that are watching, the AI producers, I'm telling you right now, when you're battling, if I were battling, I would have one of my songs prepared for the battle with a live person. And during the battle, all of a sudden, my live person comes in on a live mic and starts belting out my AI produced song for the battle. If if if I was I would cheat that way. Because now I've got it's a hybrid. Yeah, it's an AI-produced song, but guess what? Gerard is really singing too.
SPEAKER_00I would definitely it would change the dynamic of how you battle now. Yeah. So I think I I'm I'm receiving it and processing it. I love it.
SPEAKER_01Before we go, let me just say this publicly. Okay. So that way you have to hold me to task on it. Um, you said that the prize money is the pot that all of the producers they paid the registration fee to get in. It may I ask how much is how many producers are in the pot at the moment? Right now, it's only eight. Eight, okay. Before it was 37. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So, so that's eight times 20. Correct. Okay. My show, Behind the Story, we will sponsor this season. We're going to put $200 into the pot for the winner of this season's A-Idol. I'm trying to nudge you to take my idea of making it live. So I'm so I'm so it's a quick pro quid pro crow, so to speak. No, no, I'm joking. But no, seriously, in to support what you're doing, to support A Idol, my show behind the story, we'll sponsor and put in $200 into the pot for this season's winner. Well, you know, thank you. And and may I ask if you could put a plug-in to allow me the privilege of interviewing the winner as part of the agreement. Can we agree to that on the show?
SPEAKER_00I'm just gonna say this. I'm I'm shocked and not surprised because I know you. I know where your heart is, and you have supported me from day one, and you hold me accountable. So I just want to say if you would have met the last season's winner, oh my goodness, it was an underdog. It was an underdog.
SPEAKER_01My type of person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, someone that wasn't supposed to win. They came in the last day and won. Yeah. But what you're doing is now giving this a machine a push. Uh, for you to do that, it's a blessing. Uh, without even saying it. Whatever you do for me, I'm gonna show up.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's my pleasure. It's an honor to have you back on behind the story. We're gonna do it again. Gerard, as always. Yeah. It's good to see you. I love you, brother.
SPEAKER_00Come a long way, man. I appreciate you. Thank you. Be well.