Welcome to the Cigar Vichinado Podcast from the Cigar Vichinato Lounge here in New York City. I'm David Savona, the executive editor of Cigar Vichinato, joined by our managing editor, Greg Matola. How are you doing, Greg? I'm doing all right. And today we have a very special guest. It is Rafael Nodal, the owner of the Aging Room brand, and also the vice president of product capability for Tobacco Lera USA. Raphael, thank you so much for being here.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for having me here, guys. Being in New York City, being with you guys, being here at this famous Cigar Aficionado Lounge, and now being able to do this podcast and talk a little bit about my passion is uh it's an amazing thing. Thank you very much for having me here, Dave and Greg.
SPEAKER_00Why don't we start with what you're smoking?
SPEAKER_02Ho ho ho.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what are you smoking, Raphael?
SPEAKER_02Well, it has two diamonds and the red. So I'm having the Monte Cristo 1935 anniversary. It's a long title, 1935 Anniversary Edición Doble Diamante. We call it Doble Diamante Red. So the Monte Cristo Doble Diamante Red. Um just an amazing cigar. I hope uh our listeners and viewers will get to enjoy. It's a celebratory cigar, but it's a beautiful cigar.
SPEAKER_00I heard that wasn't uh that was that that's not such a cheap cigar.
SPEAKER_02It's not, it's not um, it is $150, and I said that I don't get $150 a box. $150 a cigar. Cigar comes in boxes of 20 cigars, but it's a very limited edition. But I have to tell you, I remember talking about the previous edition, the doble diamante, and I also mentioned uh it's a celebratory cigar. Uh, it's definitely not a day uh, you know, everyday cigar, unless you can afford it. I cannot. I get to smoke it in a special occasion like this, and that's why I'm smoking it today.
SPEAKER_00Now, anytime anyone has a cigar that's $100 or more, it there's always the question. Why is that cigar $150 or more?
SPEAKER_02Great question. Um First of all, they are very rare tobaccos, and these are tobaccos that have been left from different productions and have been aged for a long time. And uh Tobacco's from where? From Esteli, Nicaragua. This is completely Esteli, Nicaragua, made with our by our great friend and tobacco master, Eyer Fernandez. And um when you talk about tobaccos and and and talk about the price, and and that's it's that's always a touchy subject, right? Uh, because there are many people that believe that just like in wine, just like in whiskey, just like in rum, there are very good wines for not too expensive, and then the other special wines. And um, and this tobacco have been extremely aged for many years, many years. And there's a cost to do that. Because when you talk about tobaccos, every year that you keep the tobaccos, you run a risk, right? Um fires, illnesses, all of those things. And uh in the old days, I believe what they did is they, you know, they have enough tobacco left over for another production, they will mix it with some of the price uh tobaccos. But AJ had the the idea many years ago, and some of the in 10, 12, 13 years that he kept some of that small production from every single farm that he did it, and things that first first um um uh some of the first harvest from some some um some of the farm. And that makes it extremely rare and very special.
SPEAKER_00Now I remember this is actually your second cigar in the Doble Diamante line because you released also just not the red version, the regular version, and those were also $150. They were $150 uh two and a half years ago. Right. And and in in defense of the $150 cigar for for for that that that that that that kind of cranky guy who's like, ah, all tobacco's the same, you know. $150 cigar is something. Remember that guy. It's it's no different than a five-dollar cigar. You're just paying for the label. Now, we have not rated this new one, but we rated the first doble Diamante, $150, um, $150. And that got, I think, 95 points.
SPEAKER_0195 points. And we don't give out 95 point scores.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's a classic by our uh instant classic.
SPEAKER_02That is a classic. That is a classic uh number. And um, I was so nervous when we did this 150 because it is I mean, how would that look? $150 cigar that rates 86 points. Exactly. And then that's when you said, listen, this is a gimmick, right? And we wanted to do something special. Obviously, Monte Cristo, right, um, is a brand that has been uh that's been on the market for a long time, since 1935. It's an iconic brand, and we wanted to pay respect to that and position it in it in what we call the super premium. There have been other cigars on the market like that. We just happen to believe to get the highest rating of those super premiums, and it's something that makes us very special um because wow, we were very nervous. I was very nervous. You know, it's not the same as blending an aging room as Monte Cristo, and always extremely nervous about that.
SPEAKER_00Well, we haven't rated this one yet. Not yet. Are you are you nervous about this one?
SPEAKER_02I'm always nervous when you guys rate uh the cigar. I'm always never with someone to taste the cigar for the first time. However, I must say that uh so far the people that have smoked it has a tremendous amount of um uh great comments about it. Um, this isn't the same blend as the original. It's not the same blend because those tobaccos are done.
SPEAKER_01What makes it different? Is it just uh a different country, different priming?
SPEAKER_02We took tobacco from the same regions and also as as well, but I think the the difference was on the way we we blended the the proportion of those cigars. This is a little bit bolder, a little bolder, a little bit more um complex. So we took that original double diamante, and I like to say that we added a little bit more diamonds on it. A little more diamond. Originally was I wanted to do a triple diamond, and uh and then you know this uh uh we decided red because red is what I did not know that, but my wife knew about it. Uh it's one of the rares diamonds, and um, so we wanted to express with the name, what, and the look, the type of tobacco that was inside.
SPEAKER_01And so if your wife asks for a red diamond, you can give her one of these and say, Here you go.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. I did that with the first, not even the double diamond, with the first diamante uh we had a Monte Cristo Diamante, because uh we have a story that one day I told about the ring, her ring, and uh I owe her a diamond, and I tried to say, This is your diamond, and she didn't go for it. Not so lucky, not so lucky. Right after we got married, maybe four or five months after we got married, I was working in the hospital, I managed the hospital. She came to my office crying, and uh um she's a psychiatrist, and in the hospital she was helping the nurse move in a patient, and the diamond fell off. And um and she came crying. I said, Don't worry about it. Uh we'll take care of it. Oh my God, it's only four months. So probably talks to the quality of the setting anyway, but it it fell off. So I told her, I called my friend, the one that has sold me the diamond, a very good friend of mine. And I said, Listen, this happened. I said, Oh, come come to the office. So I took that um uh to his office, and he said, Well, listen, we need to to order one, you know, and it will take a few days. But in the meantime, let's put one of those zirconians so the setting can hold. And I said, perfect. And so I went, I kept uh smoking with him and drinking. I got home very late. And the following morning, Alina wakes up and um she saw the ring with the diamond, and uh she came and gave me a key, you're the best. I called my friend back and I said, cancel the order, cancel the order until she finds out about I don't know, 10, 12 years later, we were changing insurance and they needed to um to value all the things and things like that, and uh appraisal, I do the appraisal. And she find out, unbeknown to me that uh she was doing that, and uh she came back. I should have blamed my friend, but of course I was honest, and I told her, and she said, Why do you do that? I said, Well, you were so happy that I did not want to do that. So I owe her that every year. I said, Listen, every year you get either the diamond or you get a vacation, and she has chosen the vacation, so that's that's that's the story of the diamond. But when we did the diamond, the first uh 1935 that we did the edition Diamante, and I took her that I put I shouldn't have done that, right? In retrospective, I had an amazing dinner set up for her. I have a little box of uh a ring, and I open it up. You put a cigar ring in a little box, in the little box. That's a dangerous game. That's a dangerous game. In our anniversary, by the way, that was not a good in retrospective. That wasn't a good thing, anyway.
SPEAKER_01For everybody out there who's uh with a significant other, I do not recommend this behavior. This is uh very dangerous. Your wife is a wonderful person to divorce.
SPEAKER_02Barney, don't try this at home.
SPEAKER_01So we know what you're smoking. I want to know what Greg is smoking because I believe Greg went into the humidor and went to Oh, I I found I found something, I found something a a little old, a little aged.
SPEAKER_00You're hiding cigars from me, Greg. I want to talk to you about this. I'm not hiding cigars from you. Look, Rafael, why don't you tell us what I'm telling us? Um what I'm smoking. And it is delicious, by the way.
SPEAKER_02Back in 17, we started working on this project with the Trinidad, and we call it Trinidad Espiritu. The idea was to highlight tobacco from different areas, right? Different origins. And that was our new uh the first one, uh Trinidad Espiritu. Also made by number one with by ella. We started with that, and then we continue the whole series with that. And um, so this fundador, which is the traditional Trinidad size, uh, we did it only for events. Uh so that's when whenever we did events with that, we did it. And I was I was talking to you before, and I said, you know, that's a great cigar. Okay, and you had one from the beginning. This is this has some age on it, huh?
SPEAKER_00And it is because I remember exactly how it tasted when you first handed it to me. And it was really good, it had potential. But um, I felt when I was smoking it like the parts were all there, but they hadn't all completely come together yet. Now they have come together beautifully. You know, uh cigars. Um and I I don't even know if we can rate this cigar. Is this still events only? Do you guys think we even make this cigar?
SPEAKER_02We did it, yeah. We do make it and we did it broader um now for everyone because after that we did the number two with the regular one. So when we did the number two, we actually issued a cigar uh for every date, and then the number three, which was Box Press, and that came in also in Vox Press. I prefer the traditional round one. I must say that we when we release cigars, right? So cigars have a curve. And in that curve, um we try to sell the cigars at the at the peak, right? But there's some cigars that due to the type of tobacco, the type of aging, and the varieties and and and the composition of those cigars, uh have a lot more potential and it will age good. Just like wine, right? So sometimes wine ages good, sometimes doesn't. Uh, but when you sometimes you have these cigars and like like it happened to us with the 1935, and said this cigar is gonna be great, or the the aging room 4 Nicaragua um uh uh also did amazing and aged well. There's some cigars just like people, right? There's some people that age better uh and than others, and um there's nothing like a good cigar that ages a lot better and it gets good. It's you don't get all those flavors and all those nonsense that you normally don't get uh right when they are John.
SPEAKER_00I I can't imagine that this is one of your better sellers in terms of uh just because of the size, not a popular size, it is not a popular review. You love those.
SPEAKER_02Well, it's a connoisseur, right? It's by the way, it's one of the most difficult things to make in the cigars, uh right? The sizes and the shapes and the vitolas. Why? Because it's such uh such a thin one. Um normally, obviously, the the flavors are impacted by the ratio of the wrapper compared to the to the fillers inside, but there's no room for uh uh for a mistake inside the way you put the tobacco. This is very easy to just just not smoke, right? Uh when you have a bigger ring size, there's it's more forgiving. You know, and this is a natural process. You put in the, you know, you put in that by hand.
SPEAKER_00Um I imagine for something like this, you you you twist the binder a little bit too much and then it's it and that's it. Whereas a thicker cigar, you may not have that problem.
SPEAKER_02You may not have that problem. It's more forgiving on that. That's why the rollers that do this type of vitolas or the one that you have in are more specialized on those vitolas. They make less cigars a day uh because of the attention that it takes. And uh unfortunately used to be one of the best sellers' cigars because it's it's a connoisseur. You want to know about how a cigar should taste, you do that. And even sometimes that we don't even release this type of vitolas to the general public, we make it in ourselves. And I know yourself, you know, I know in your case you have several people that make some vitolas for you because they're good, they just don't make it for a general public, and it's great to try it in those vitolas.
SPEAKER_01So I'm smoking something different. I'm smoking your new aging room blue amber.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, this is this is a dream country, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, why don't you talk about this one a little bit?
SPEAKER_02So this is a celebration of uh the 15 years of um aging room um brand. It doesn't seem like a lot of years, right? When you're talking about Monte Cristo's in 1935, Romeo and Julius in you know uh 1875, or H. Shorman in 1844. But 15 years for me has been um it's a milestone, right? So we wanted to do something uh special because the brand started in the Dominican Republic, as you know. So we took tobacco's uh blue amber, learned that from my wife. She loves blue ambers and it comes from the uh Dominican Republic. And one day she was told about the blue amber and a very rare, very rare amber, also from Dominican Republic. And I find out there were tobacco grown many years before in that region, which is very close to the Cival region. We sourced that tobacco and was not used, the person that bought it did not use it on his blend because it was too, it didn't go with the type of blend that he was making from Dominican tobacco. He said that uh, you know, it that uh has all the too too much uh mineral and minerality on the flavor. And um uh we wanted to do something special. So we blended that tobacco uh with tobacco from AJ Fernandez, uh grown in the mountains or near the volcanoes. And um so it's not a Dominican cigar, it's made in Nicaragua, but we wanted to pay homage to Dominican Republic, which is where the brand started.
SPEAKER_01And so there's Dominican tobacco in it, but also blended with the Nicaraguan tobacco.
SPEAKER_02And the result is the blue amber, uh, which I like to think is one of my best blend.
SPEAKER_00Um, obviously, it sounds like uh it's it's almost like uh an evolution of aging room and now kind of uh a coming home of sorts because you're you're you're in a way returning to the Dominican city.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, and Dominican is an amazing country with amazing manufacturing.
SPEAKER_00Because I think a lot of people don't know that aging room started as a Dominican cigar, made in the Dominican Republic, and that you transitioned it into a Nicaraguan cigar. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02And you know, as I'm sure you remember the number two cigar of the year back in 20 uh 13, the F55 was a very good thing.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I remember because I remember how you marketed it. It was the maybe the number two cigar, but number one was a Cuban that year. So that's right. It was the number one cigar of the year for the US. The number one cigar of the cigar.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, uh it it helped us put on the map. You know, it's so difficult. There are so many great cigars, and having an opportunity like that to present it to the people and uh as um uh to know the brand, uh that that was good. It took us a long time to come out with the next one. Because, you know, like movies when you do the Padrino one and then the two and the three, you always say, you know, hey, this, this, or or sequels for me is very difficult. That's why I take so long, like here, the the double diamante, red after the doble diamante. For me, sequels are very difficult. Um, because I don't want to disrespect the original work. And it took a long time to come up with the Nicaragua version. It took us a long time, and then it was the number one cigar of the year in everywhere, including the United States. So that was really something that helped us a lot to take the word out, but really pay homage to the world.
SPEAKER_00That was 2019, right?
SPEAKER_02That was 2019, and then something happened. I we had an amazing uh dinner here at the old Grand Havana room. It was uh I remember that was March 10th of 2009. I remember that conversation. Oh boy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We were sitting there, and and me, like an idiot, was was telling everyone, I guarantee all this is this is just another version of SARS. We get it every year. I said in two weeks, no one, no one will even remember that we had this SARS outbreak. And boy, was I wrong. So I don't think anybody could have imagined what we were days before the world should be. I never claimed to be in uh what is it, an uh epidemiology.
SPEAKER_02But it when it came home to me through that day when we finished the 10 and the 11, I uh I went to Miami and we had a meeting that that was a Tuesday, I had a Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday event. And when I took a plane uh from La Guardia and the the airport was completely empty, we have three people in the plane with me. That's when it took home to me that like, hey, this is serious. And then we had an event on Wednesday, Miami, on Thursday in Miami, and Friday in Brower, and the world stopped. And I it's funny, guys, it's funny because I had told my wife, listen, this year will be no vacation. I'm sorry you will not see me. I have a serious event. I had prepared almost every day event for six months, right? We waited until we got the cigars and we prepared the cigar, and that was the beginning that week of what we thought non-stop events. So I told my wife, I'm sorry, I will not be able to see you too much. This and this and that. This is an opportunity to take the word out about the aging room and things. And God, it's funny. After four days, we were home for two years, and I wasn't sure whether I was gonna be able to be with my wife for two years, you know, never because you know, I I was traveling.
SPEAKER_01Used to be on the road and leaving, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, I have to tell you, funny God is like you're gonna be home. And uh wow, I remember doing all these lives and all these things, right? Um, and life changes. But one thing I learned is is you have to adjust. You have to adjust, absolutely. And that's that's what happened. So between that number two and then the number one, it helped us take out the word about the cigars. And now coming full cycle to the celebration of 15 years of aging rope.
SPEAKER_01This episode of the Cigar Vishna podcast is brought to you by the Big Smoke Las Vegas, taking place November 6th and 7th. It's the biggest cigar event of the year. Two nights of big smoke evenings with the world's most famous cigar stars. Incredible spirits, food, and music, all in a cigar-friendly atmosphere. Our cigar seminars include a tasting of the number one cigar of the year and a presentation by superstar Guy Fietti. It's the Big Smoke Las Vegas weekend. You can find out all about it at Las Vegas at BigSmoke.com. You know, you mentioned adjusting. You have to adjust. And and for you, getting into the cigar business was an adjustment too, because that wasn't your original plan. You started off working in hospitals, and uh your entry into cigars wasn't exactly uh the the most natural one. Uh, I mean, you didn't think you were gonna make it in the cigar business.
SPEAKER_02Or the most successful one. Or the most successful one. Um, I learned a long time ago that um people for go to university and you pay for that. You pay for that, and for the knowledge and for that. So my case and knowledge was like I felt a lot, and you learn a lot more from the failures, and I did fail a lot. There's no one, I can tell you, there's no one that has more failure in the cigar industry than me. But I hang in there and I did it, and you're right. But not only the healthcare, I was a musician. I in this city, New York City, was an amazing city. I love to be here. And all of my releases, I I do have the introduction here because I I firm believer that this is if you cannot make it, if you can make it in New York City, like the sun says, you can make it everywhere. And I love that. And um there's the energy and the people and amazing. So I was a musician and then healthcare because you know life works a mysterious way. And then I found a passion. One day I went to buy a my partner now, Hank Bischoff, said, you know, it was an employment uh employee of mine in the hospital. He said, Rafael, you smoke cigar. You're Cuban, right? You smoke cigars. Everybody thinks you're Cuban, you know how to dance outside, which I do, or roast the pig, which I don't, but I do eat it. And um and no cigars. And so I bought my first box of cigars. I went um little place, uh Link Perdomo, and I uh met him and I bought my first box of cigars. I smoked my first cigars, and I went that evening and I told my wife, I know what I'm gonna do the rest of my life. So when you smoked that cigar, you said, wow, this something. That night, yeah. I told my wife, I know what I'm gonna do the rest of my life. Because not only the cigar, but really put me in contact with my culture. You know, cigars really identify what Cuba is, right? And it put me it in touch with something that I was sleeping, right? That coming out of Cuba in a difficult situation, in in a boat.
SPEAKER_00Because when when you when you grew up in Cuba, you were not a cigar smoker.
SPEAKER_02No, I was not. I was from the area that had nothing to now they grow tobacco because they grow tobacco in many areas in Cuba now, um uh to to support the demand. But in there's nothing. I you know, for me, my father, my dear, it was nothing. Cigar was not part of our culture, uh, but it was part of the the whole, the broader culture of Cuba. It wasn't a part of your world as a world. Yeah. But when I saw that and I saw what Cuba represented and listening and reading to Cigar Aficionado, which wrote all these things, right, about Cuba and all these things, it just made me in in touch with a part of me that I didn't know that that I had.
SPEAKER_00So cigars are more of an American story for you than they are. It is than a Cuban story, even though you were born and raised in Cuba.
SPEAKER_02Hopefully can finish my book one day, which is my American story. Cigars, my American story. So because my American story is about cigars. It's part of what I am and what I became here. And so something like so much Cuban like tobacco cigars, for me, uh it took me to leave the country, to live in a foreign country that became my new country and found the cigars. It's it's it came a full cycle.
SPEAKER_01That's the American dream right there. So you went from a person who didn't have cigars as part of your culture, and cigars weren't a part of your world. And now I I mean, you're you you you are into cigars like few people I know. Just quickly, give us an idea of your daily ritual with cigars. Because you you have a you have a very set ritual with how you smoke a cigar. I do, I do.
SPEAKER_02My first day with this, my first day starts with uh a cigar. I happen to live by the beach, and I have my first cigar, my first coffee, espresso, um, which I use no sugar now. We were talking about that before. I used to do a lot of sugar because you know the Cuban coffee is uh is a lot of uh a lot of sugar and a little bit of coffee. Um now the spoon stands up in the cup when you do it right. It's like the Dead Sea, which I had a chance to visit last year. Um so I start with that, and by the time I get to the office at around eight or nine, I already have four cigars. Because I believe it sets my tone and my uh and my taste. The days that I don't smoke as much, I believe I'm missing something and I and my taste change. So I have, so by the time I go to the office, or I mean if I'm in the farm, forget it. That's it. It's more cigars by the time because you know you're working and you always have a cigar in your hand. By the time I have launch, I may have seven cigars already. Obviously, the one after launch in the office the afternoon. This is the only industry that you can be a smoking cigar trying blends and use, you know, you have when you do blending, you do even more. You don't smoke the whole cigar, but you have, you know, sometimes 20, 30 cigars testing, not smoking the whole time. Testing, not smoking. It's testing. And then you go by the for my insurance purposes, it's uh healthcare, it's this is testing, not not smoking. And by the time I get home and I finish, and sometimes I even in the office, I I don't have a time to finish all of the blends. So I get home and I tell my wife, I'm working, let me do this, and she leaves me in a corner, I'm a cigar. And then I finish, and then I open a bottle of wine or some drinks, Bourbon lately, or tequila, or rum. And then I tell my wife said, like, wait a minute, you were working. Say, no, no, I'm done working. Now I'm enjoying myself because at the time it's different. You don't need to think about the notes, you don't think about anything, you're just enjoying the cigar.
SPEAKER_01And this is one of the few industries you finish smoking so much and then how much more fun is this industry than the healthcare industry?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Uh for me, being a creator person, I create uh I I love to create uh, you know, the musician, composition, the arts, things like that. Uh, this allows me to create just like being a chef, right? To create with the ingredients, different same ingredients you create, different things, like notes, like composing music. There's seven notes. And you see all this music is a combination of time, right? And um and a combination of notes. And that's what we the tobacco is a combination of those things that makes every blend different. So it's a lot more fun, the creative part, but also I always say, you know, that cigar, the best cigar is the one that you have with good friends, right? Or even when you are alone. I I like to say that the best moments in life get better with a cigar, right?
SPEAKER_01Great way to say it. You're living the American dream from a musician to the healthcare industry to your passion, and we're smoking three of your different compositions right now. Raphael, it's such a pleasure to have you here on this podcast.
SPEAKER_02Thank you very much for having me. I love being in New York City, I love being with you guys, and thank you for this opportunity. Are we out of time?
SPEAKER_00I had so many more questions. We're glad to have them back.
SPEAKER_02There you go. You heard it first, many questions, and you and coming back.
SPEAKER_01Time flies when you're smoking great cigars.
SPEAKER_02To be continued.