IOP LENS
The IOP Lens is a SIOPSA podcast that brings together practitioners, leaders, and scholars in Industrial and Organisational Psychology to explore the issues shaping the future of work. Our aim is to make IOP thinking accessible, relevant, and impactful for both practitioners and decision-makers. Each episode contributes to SIOPSA’s broader professional dialogue.
IOP LENS
S1E9: Integrity and the South African IOP Landscape Ft. Dr Louis Fick
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Integrity and the South African IOP Landscape | The IOP Lens
In this episode of The IOP Lens, Dr Sane Ngidi joined by Dr Louis Fick, explore the critical role of integrity within the South African Industrial and Organisational Psychology landscape.
Through a thoughtful and engaging conversation, the discussion examines what integrity means in practice, why it remains a cornerstone of professional credibility, and how ethical leadership shapes the future of the profession. The episode reflects on the responsibilities of IOP practitioners in navigating complex organisational challenges while maintaining trust, accountability, and professional excellence.
As the world of work continues to evolve, integrity remains a guiding principle that enables the profession to create meaningful impact for individuals, organisations, and society.
This episode offers valuable insights into ethical practice, professional responsibility, and the enduring importance of values-driven leadership in IOP.
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Welcome to the IOP lens. I'm Dr. Suniling Gidi, Sumopsa President. Welcome for another episode where we delve into the real stories and journeys behind industrial and organizational psychology. This is about real people, real stories, real journeys, and the moments that shape us as an IOP profession. I'm really excited today to have Dr. Louis Jun Fick with us, and we will be delving into integrity, a very interesting topic. As always, I will give us a little bit of an intro into our guest so we can understand the basis of our conversation today. Dr. Louis Jun Fick, Dr. Fick is the founder and CEO of Integrity International. This is an organization familiar to us within the world of psychology in the South Africa space, known in industry as Integ, a South African-based organization with more than 45 years of experience in the world of work. Dr. Fick is an industrial psychologist whose life's work has been dedicated to a single powerful question. How do we measure integrity? With deep roots in the psychometric community and registration with the Health Professions Council of South Africa, he has built ITEG into the only organization in the world that offers a complete dedicated battery of seven psychometric instruments, each designed to assess integrity from a different angle. This sounds really interesting. Dr. Fick, thank you so much for your time today and for joining us. I'm excited to dig a little bit deeper into integrity. Before we get started, I always start each episode the same way, which is really trying to understand a little bit more about yourself. Tell me, how did you end up in the field of IO psychology?
SPEAKER_02It's a very good question. First of all, before I start, I thank you for the opportunity to partake into this postcode case. Now, Kast. I think it's uh it's an honor and it's an opportunity also to convey to my partners out there what my life is like and how I end up as an IO. And as I also mentioned to you in our earlier discussion, when you uh said goodbye to us when we say good to our pocket, hello to you. Yes. Okay. Uh I I think what I would like to start off by telling you, it didn't just happen over overnight. There was a big time element and involved in gradually developing to what I am and what I'm doing today. For example, when I was at school, we kind of decided that uh what I would like I must do is to register as a BC degree in all of a food science. But later on, the first day that I entered into a class, I said, this is not for me. This is not for me. So what I did, I was scattering around and trying to find what I must fight as a as a kind of position for me, it was decided that actually I should be in business in the world of commerce, which I did. And over this period of time, I think I had the opportunity, especially during the first few years thereof. And during that first few years, I ended up in the department of industrial psychology that was just decided to happen, to be introduced. Uh the first few years, it was more or less psychology, for example, also playing a role. But later on, it was more management. Of course, that's also human being involved, but it's all another angle. My first uh experience was that in May on this year, my um my but the professor, the head of department, he was apparently impressed by me as a student and offered me a job as a lecturer in industrial psychology, which I accepted with glad appreciation. But in that period of time, in my first period of time, as a student, that was also carried over to being a lecturer, I was more involved in developing psychometric tests. That was something new at the time. I'm talking about 35, 60 years ago. Uh of course, we must also take into consideration I'm not born yesterday. And as a result of that, um I uh end up also in a situation where I had to do a partnership, a partnership with the let us say, the academic side and the practical side of business. And it so happened that I did an internship also in that, I think it was in the seventh year of my lectureship. And in that period of time and being involved with the other interns, I was offered a job uh to become the chairman of the municipal service commission. And that entered me into the the government, and in in that first few days of my employment there, I was also appointed as HR of Cape Town City Council. But because of all this, I also became a member of the IPM. Now, the IPM is the Institute of People Management. People management. People again. Yes, we know the IPM well. Okay. Yes, you know the IP well. Yes. Okay, I was a member thereof, but later on I became also a member of Lucy also. And that is where, in the end, I end up where I'm now. But uh I know I'm overplaying perhaps my first years, but it's the way I how I get there. No, now as being part of business in the government situation, uh, and and and here I would like to become more more practical in terms of what I did and how I developed it. I become in the in the first year, as I said, also part of the private sector. And being that, I become part of the HR director of Coopers Enlightened.
SPEAKER_03Before we go into that detail, I want to ask you a question on, first of all, the the really great thing that you've said there is around being part of business, but also the people aspect of business. I think sometimes when IO psychologists tell their stories, they think of psychology in a clinical or a counseling term, but they don't think of being a psychologist in business, which is the I.O. piece. So I think just highlighting that piece is is critical. And then I'm interested in your lecturing. What were you lecturing on?
SPEAKER_02And mostly, mostly then in developing psychometric tests. Okay, but behind this is the human side of enterprise. Yes, the human side of enterprise, yeah, and that is still where I am today, but also uh round about the psychometric testing. And um, at the moment, for for example, uh Intec, as you mentioned our name to be, in integrity tends to, we we've got uh 27 psychometric tests, of which seven is in integrity. So integrity is really very important to us. And and and you you know, I will never change my colours from being a human being to being a moneymaker and to being a business-oriented people. Nevertheless, I think it's also important to to mention to you that it's getting getting much wider. Before because I I was also through uh the latest on the the P3WC, the price water scars, they they they introduced me to a let us call a very uh a gigantic international institution. I will just not mention the name now. So I think that would be unfair. And they they they requested this partner of mine in-house, where I was actually working for, to tell them to and to do a research and to tell them to write a report on what is integrity all about. Yeah, no, I'm talking about years ago.
SPEAKER_03Was that your first test of assessments in integrity?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Okay, yes, absolutely so. So we did, but we had to also include 10 other countries, which we also did. It took us about four years to do. And after I'll tell you now, 430 pages of report, we we came to the conclusion that is what it all was about. Now, this this with the assistance of this partner of mine, we developed and instituted a 27, again, 27, 27 research centers right about the globe. So we had the opportunity to also not put our food only in South Africa, in Africa, but also in the wider center of what the world is all about. Integrity is integrity, wherever it is, and running and in and and and developing the the culture of integrity. That is actually what I put my my finger on.
SPEAKER_03And give us a definition of integrity for somebody.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I will tell you what I'm going to uh I said to you we we've got uh seven integrity tests. We are now developing the eighth ones.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02We and and and it will be kind of uh introduced during this conference coming. But I I I I would just like to, and and here I'd like to to make a reference to the this last one that we are now developing, and that is what is integrity all about? That is what you ask me. Now I would like to give you a definition that we also here it is. Integrity is a integrated wholeness, uh, integrated wholeness, the whole persons involved. And to do this, it is developing a culture of integrity. What is integrity? Integrity is associated very closely, very closely to a few of these uh factors. Let us call it uh factors. Uh factors, yes, but traits because it's a personality kind of orientation test. Of which the most important ones, honestly, uh consistency. And I can continue. I've got 10 scales that within this new test. But we also acknowledge the fact that there is also a a negative side to integrity. It's not integrity itself that is giving us the but the human side of it.
SPEAKER_03Do you feel as if there's a universal understanding of integrity? Because I think integrity is one of those things that often comes up when you ask people what their core values are, they might say integrity is a value.
SPEAKER_02I would say to you, when it comes to values, integrity has grown over the years to be perhaps the core factor. The core factor. Uh, but it also includes, for example, honesty. Honesty, as I just mentioned, but consistency and and but all of these factors, scales, uh in a positive domain. While it's also on the negative domain, the counterproductive work behavior, and that is the best. Now I said to you, I'm not going to swear, but it's the near nearer to I'll come to swearing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What's the negative side of integrity?
SPEAKER_02The negative side of integrity is a counterproductive work orientation.
SPEAKER_03How does that show up?
SPEAKER_02People like themselves, they like to be involved in growing in and bigger and become bigger and bigger, but how by themselves, as how they can get that more. And I think you will also appreciate that because you're also a human being. People like to get better in their standing, especially also in something that can be measured, like money, like status. And that is all related to the counter, counter-con contribution. That people don't even later on know that they are actually and put their their faith more in this counter on the on the value that they can get to themselves. And that is a counter, counter value of in of integrity.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_02But it is something like 30% to 70%. Where 30% is going to this counter for ductus, and the 70% is going to the pure integrity side.
SPEAKER_03So when you mention that you've got seven integrity tests, what different aspects of integrity are you measuring?
SPEAKER_02Well, the most important is you know the the covering of total to totality. And as you as I also mentioned, there's a last test for example. In our case, uh, we've got ten uh integrity uh traits. Now that ten uh traits are all positive, all integrity-oriented too. But it doesn't uh let us free, be freed of the counter cancer. People are like that. Even me and you. We are I would like to do my best. I like to present myself the best, you know. But is that really what we want in business? The IOPs, they are they've got to be something that is uh developing uh the the difference between people, the culture, the culture of difference and dignity to to to to to deal with people, also as managers to the uh to the to the integrity side, okay, to the to with dignity. And so as far as far as that scientist is concerned within ourselves, to to to to take people with them towards higher levels of what the other person, also the employees, yeah, are to come to.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um what's unique about the way in which um intake measures integrity?
SPEAKER_02I I think the most important is that we acknowledge the fact that there is a negative side of it also. And that is where I would like the size. The size was something that we would like also to deal with other people watching to this, hearing this podcast. And that is that it is there, it is something that you can't just ignore, but you must deal with it. And we deal with it, not to exploit in that, not to to get rid of it, but to to to live with people and and and and and and and and and account of rolling out the culture of integrity gradually. They don't even know that it is happening, but it becomes them. Because they're part of their human being side. That is the difference. Where some of the other tests are more on the the negative sides, yeah, because they'd want to evaluate this to to extreme, to extremely get rid of those people that we don't want in the organization. Like you allow water to come into the to the swimming pool. They would like to keep the dirty water out of it and only to get the the pure water, the clean water in. I would like to say, no. If you really want that person, that person's got the experience and the know-how and the cultural, then bring him in. But we will clear him as part of the water. So they are becoming part of the cult of integrity. So what we are doing is actually rolling out the culture of integrity.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. What does that look like practically if you you're building an organization and you're saying you want to establish this culture of integrity? What does it look like? What must what do organizations do?
SPEAKER_02What you actually say, what is what what is in what is the companies, the business, our clients, they they use the test to start with. Screening people. They must they must be a screen. We we should know, we must know what is the product that we are getting in. And we must also know that because we are part of a human environment, we will also have some of them that we don't want in terms of the quality of integrity, the culture of integrity. But with that information to our disposal, we are also part of being in control of how we can improve them to become the product that we want. So that is what companies are doing about using integrity if we will. And I think that's the right approach, but not to concentrate all only on the negative side, on screening out. We we we shouldn't do that. I don't think this is a responsibility that the IOS has got. That's why I said to you all also earlier today when we met. Yes, you know, the people that that we are allowing in are people that we believe will also partake and increase the level of of integrity. And and that is something that doesn't happen overnight. It's a gradual process. So what what we are saying is what we also mentioned there, is that is what we must we must allow people in the organization to know and become part of the development process. They know that. You don't you don't uh keep them out of it. That is not something that we are doing to them, that is what they are developing with us.
SPEAKER_03So we assess people for integrity and we ensure that we're getting people at the levels of integrity that we want, and where we find that maybe it's not a hundred percent of the level of integrity we want, we develop a culture where we instill build a build a culture of integrity.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think this that is something that we must also give to discuss here as the part of me coming to what I am now. Um we we when I created my own organization the first few years was actually more or less uh concentrating on assessment centers, because that is why we really uh interview and and and and and and evaluate people to the deepest score from all sides, all angles. But because of that, uh a major portion of what we did in the assessment centers, and we did thousands of them internationally, but also in South Africa. Was to roll out the culture of integrity. And I think what we are saying in that process, you know, if you do that way, you do it open-minded and share it with your partners. You are getting the best kind of product at the end.
SPEAKER_03I want to leverage your experience, Dr. Fick. How have you seen the IOP landscape in South Africa evolve?
SPEAKER_02Let us put it this way. And that is what I'm specializing in. But they also there is also the human side, the IOP. That is where the Iop is coming in. And they are in the best position to change and to deal with the differences in the world. They are already established themselves as it is. But in the future, they're becoming more and more important. If you consider that, and I think we must we must have mentioned to you what are the the ten factors, what are the ten scales, traits that I'm willing for looking for in integrity. Honesty, and I'm going to give me to mention them each in detail. Honesty is the most important one. Historically, for example, you know, when when they you they they they measure integrity, they measure personality. They measure uh honesty. But honesty is not the only thing that's important. So the other one is conscientiousness. Conscientiousness is is the next more in in rank order, the most important. Then they need to socialize control. There must be the control, but it must be the social side coming in. Accountability, stability, no, no, no, no, running through that if you don't mind. And the next one is uh agreeability. That that is very important, and and and then dependability. Uh yeah, but you know that, but you know that, but we must look for it and we must measure that. Trust is the voice of this, trustworthiness, very, very much important, fairness, and then modesty. Us, the IO, can't be there for themselves. They must be modern people, they they must be uh people that will be acceptable to everyone in the organization. And you know that is the biggest difference that we've got in South Africa. I'm saying this with honesty. I believe that is the with approach of managerial style. They are dictators, uh, not in a bad side, but to a very light extent, it's my business. That is how I want, that is what I want from you. But it shouldn't be. It's a modest kind of thing. They must be part of it, and they must also treat the people. And that is the future of IO. Absolutely so. And that is what's so making Siobsa so important. They they they are actually rolling it up. You know, my experience since becoming part parcel of Siopsa, and that is also covering a hell of a long time already. And most of the time I was the the main uh kind of uh uh financial supporter. And the reason is there for a reason, for a very important reason, and that is let it happen with the professional side. What is C-OPSA all about? COPSA is there to bring them together and to hone them into their role, the role that we just discussed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. So I hear you, Dr. Fick, speak about IOPs, the importance of the role of IOPs themselves, and the importance of the role of IOPs that will continue in the future. You've spoken about the integrity itself and how it's measured using the 10 factors. When we think about the future of work and this generation of AI, et cetera, we're going into, does how we assess integrity change or evolve?
SPEAKER_02Can I read something to you? I'd like to. The future. And psychometrics and the psychometric assessments are playing a very important role. But psychometric assessment, we become more continuous, contextual, data proven, and integrated into the organization decision-making meaning. The decision-making of the organization, that will be their front, that would be the front that we develop. And what is also that is also the front of the contribution of the RPs. But but nevertheless, you know, one of the issues that you also mentioned to me in uh the earlier discussion is the role of technology. Because technically is very important. Technology is very important. Now, I like to also read this. Technology will enhance prediction, predictability, uh scalability, measuring, gauging, realism. And in this whole problem, the whole process that that is it is giving management more of a control over what the future is going to be. And that is what we like, that is what we involved in the culture of integrity. In the end, the organization has become a cultural person, a cultural person-oriented entity.
SPEAKER_03I I want to explore integrity as a construct or how you measure it. Does it matter where in the organization a person is? Like is integrity more important at management than it is at middle management or entry level? Um, does it matter where a person is in the organization?
SPEAKER_02Yes. Tell me more. Definitely so. You know, people, when you give them the free hand and you give them a sensitive situation where they are the final decision maker, then you're becoming very sensitive, very careful, very careful. You must trust. And that is where I think the difference is. You must have let us take South Africa. We have changed significantly, but sometimes we've also few steps behind, dropping behind. Why? Because we are becoming more and more so when we've got the authority and when we've got the opportunity, we abuse it. Now that is my answer. That is that is telling you all, but that is the negative side of integrity. That is not the culture of integrity.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So when when individuals are in positions of power, decision making, that is where integrity becomes more important.
SPEAKER_02More important. You you sometimes are better than I again. That is really what it's all about. But it mustn't be something that we force down on them. It must be something of a natural kind of part of it.
SPEAKER_03The culture of now when you speak about the culture of integrity, it's not having integrity as a standalone. It's what we live and breathe as a part of us holistically.
SPEAKER_02Well, I don't think you need me as either this position that I'm loving, because that sums it up absolutely correctly.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Let's go back a little bit to your story of Salapsala. How did you become a member? Tell me a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02You know, you you see this shirt of mine. We call it um Mandela shirt.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I love it. It's a beautiful shirt.
SPEAKER_02It's beautiful. But Mandela he wears it. But he was awesome on this island resort, you remember?
SPEAKER_03Island resort.
SPEAKER_02The first time I've described as an island resort. But you know that it's a positive sign. That is a culture of integrity. Um, but you know, in the time that he was there, the world out there in every kind of uh uh natural kind of openness within the country, they will find a little call for release Mandela. Release Mandela because they want they want that that's the right thing to do. But Mandela was there because of the of some reasons, whatever the case may be. So they wanted to see is he actually developing? So what we did in that process, I met him uh twice in a year. What did I use? They integrity instruments, and you know, slowly but surely I also succeeded, I believe, in a small matter, in a small sense. For even him also become more culture integrity oriented. And then in the end, my reporting back to my bosses, so to put it, is yes, he is ready. And he was a fantastic example of integrity internationally.
SPEAKER_03So how that that experience, how did that fit into your career journey, Dr. Fick?
SPEAKER_02You know, I think it is quite obvious that the more successful your tools are and the more powerful they become. You must be very sensitive also in how you use it. Uh to to say to a person, for example, in presenting his reports, results, you don't want to give him a negative feeling about himself. And and that is actually what I think we are trying to do, and I think we are successful in doing so. That was up to now we didn't allow the counterproductive work in uh uh decision making to enter into our assessment of integrity. But that is why the new, the last, the latest instrument is coming in. It is giving you the both the sides, the positive and the negative side, and how we can actually involve both of them in developing people. You can't you can't develop an organization to its optimum if you are only hammering on the one side. You must also look at the negative side.
SPEAKER_03What are the various contexts in which you can use integrity assessments? Because I think we often think about it in corporate, but in that example you gave, it was a different context. So, what are the various contexts where integrity assessments might be beneficial?
SPEAKER_02I I I indicated to you previously that you know there are certain job types where it's more important than others. Uh, the more sensitive positions, correct, the the the greater the the risk, you know, that's kind of thing. Uh but we're also talking about the future, and that is when we're talking about the future, it is actually to walk away to a certain extent from the power factors within our country. This is also organization, it's just the the the kind of uh the government, the government is also organization, so we must do the same there, and I think to a very slight extent we are succeeding in that. But what is important now, it is being recognized, but will it be used? You know, you must remember that because of the fact that they are that they are ministers, etc. with authority and power, they want to keep it. But there is an election coming up. So, what we are doing is to say, make ourselves ready for this change around, the change around the roading out of the country. I repeat myself, I know that. But that is what it is all about.
SPEAKER_03I think what's also interesting in that context is often we speak about the impact or influence of IO psychology, and that as Iopsychologists, we want to be influencing policy, influencing legislation, influencing more broadly. And I think what you're describing talks a bit to that.
SPEAKER_02You know, I feel I'm repeating myself, but that is really what it's all about. You you you must get the people that you want to be involved in this, involved really, to the extent that they don't even want you as a as a kind of a a guiding, uh a counselor. We we don't want to be counselors, not outside counselors, would it must be internalized, and that internalized involvement is also applicable to government, to any kind of organization. And that is, I think, what we should take to heart and to say, but that is what we would like to do. I'm getting older, for example. But I I found that we are growing tremendously, we are going internationally much more than internally. But it should also come down to each individual organization with its own kind of uh of expectations, and that is what we would like to get involved in in developing uh again it is a it's a integrated wholeness, integrity is an integrated wholeness, and you cannot ever just accept the fact that you've now succeeded. You never succeed, it's there's never and it's always an ongoing process of getting better and better and more and more cultural oriented in terms of integrity. When just just before I said we mustn't we mustn't say this is the only thing, yeah. Integrity is not the only thing, but it's lipping on to much more, but we must nip on to others in the process.
SPEAKER_03So a perfect run-up to my next question, which is when organizations or whatever the nature of an organization, when they assess for integrity, are there other common batteries or attributes that are assessed for alongside integrity that almost they they work well in parallel to each other?
SPEAKER_02Fantastic question. Fantastic question. Yes is the answer. Research, put it down, could you know major research over years or years long period, that psychromatics is very important. But the most important when it comes to predict a person is a cognitive side, the cognitive domain, the cognitive domain. So we would say to you the cognitive domain is the most important predictor of work orientation, work success, behavior change, etc. etc. But what is the next level of what other tools is playing a role? The second one's integrity. You can have a kind of a financial big big boss uh and Einstein, uh Einstein, the cognitive fantastic. But if he hasn't got integrity, he doesn't help you much. They are in hand in hand. And but that is true about this in general terms, but yes. I don't, I don't think I'm sharing something with you new. That is what it is about.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and maybe my question is so one, we assess for the cognitive reasoning. So do you have the cognitive capability to lead? The second is the integrity piece. What about something like emotional intelligence? How does that play in?
SPEAKER_02Emotional intelligence to a very large extent is part of cognitive. Okay. Emotional intelligence, uh, we've also got a personality test, uh, some of a very big one, uh, measuring uh 90 different scales. You know, that is fantastically wide. But one of them is social knowledge, it is also knowing yourself, but social and dealing with people is always very important. If you can't deal with people, and I think I also mentioned that before, but if you if you are not involved in involved in people like people and dealing and and dealing and serving them with integrity, then you have lost. And that is what social intelligence is all about.
SPEAKER_03Looking back on your career, Dr. Fick, what have you enjoyed the most about Iopsychology?
SPEAKER_02I think you know I am perhaps misinformed, and I'm also conveying this to you, I suppose, by implication. But it is to come to the conclusion that you can only an organization, any group of people, and you yourself also, you can only be successful if you are successful in in in in informing, in involving people into growing themselves with social inventions of what you are as a as a human being, and the human being that is the employees. Not not management, but management is the most important also in bringing in the couch of integrity because they must be the ones that are being seen as in control. They also want it, they are the first steps. I I've actually put a word to that, and and I know when when I put it down, it is not it's not fair, but that is that is that is there is no such word, I suppose, in the in in the in the butt and I and I won't come to this that easily, but it is, you know, they they are they're the space kind of of runner. They are in in in they are the most important group in the organization as far as running rolling out the car jumping deck. They are the space, and it is it is not us, it's not the IPs, the P the IOs, but they are actually also working with management. They are they are they are they are the most important people and the closest to involving also that orientation to them and they must run it in front, they must be seen as that is what we want in this organization.
SPEAKER_03So, what I'm hearing you say is leaders are almost the custodians of culture in in their roles.
SPEAKER_02Said and done, my dearest colleague. That is what it's all about. If they are not in, nothing will happen.
SPEAKER_03As you think of Psyopsa as a society, um Um as IOPs within the space. From your experience, what advice would you give to this new generation or this next generation of IOPs?
SPEAKER_02I think what we are saying we must start somewhere. But the start is already there. If I come back to the government, for example, you know, we did uh a lot of assessments to them, and we've given back uh no information regarding the results of the test, etc. etc. But in the process, how is it being conveyed to the decision makers? And that is where the IP I I expect is coming in. They are the best people to do so, and that is the future for them, and that must be part and parcel thereof. They may not be the highest income uh receivers within the organization, they are becoming the most important role players in making a success of this early out of the culture of integrity. Yeah, put full stop.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And then as we think about in tech, um, where are you now as an organization? What excites you?
SPEAKER_02Um, where are we now? Uh we've got 27 research centers around the globe. We've got the biggest partner, uh, role player as part of us. Without with them, we haven't got the finances, but we've got more than enough because of that. Because they also want it, and they are also in that role in the world to do so. I I would love to give them the the the name of the of the but but I think that would be unfair. But I think that is what we are saying. Where are we now? I think we are already in a situation, in a space where we are the the best partners in the future, for the future. And if we are not doing that, we are losing out somewhere along the line.
SPEAKER_03I ask all my guests, Dr. Fick, to end us off. Is there a quote? Is there um a closing thought um that you would like to leave um our listeners with, whether they're IOPs, HR professionals, people interested in this space, anybody listening, what's what's the message you want to leave them with?
SPEAKER_02I would like to leave behind the word of the day, as you put it somewhere along the line. And about 50 years ago, a little more than 50 years ago, I established the slogan integrity differentiate, integrity differentiate, integrity differentiate. He was about what what was but it differentiates to the better, and that is what we want. But we also want the role players uh you and me, all of us, but especially us to convey people that the more integrity organization is in its functioning day to day, the more it differentiates to success. What is a success? In the end, it is always better to have a culture of integrity in an organization.
SPEAKER_03Thank you, Dr. Fick. I think my key takeaway here is your closing line that integrity differentiates. Um, the strong note around that integrity is the culture, it's a core piece of the culture that we that we build, the importance of having power decision making, and and and when then integrity is such a core piece of it. Um and then I think just leveraging your own personal story and understanding the lens and perspective you bring of the IOP journey has been really great. Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing your insights. Thank you for taking us on the journey with you. Uh, thank you for taking us into spaces where we might not think Io psychology is playing a role at this point in time. And thank you for Integ for joining us as um a sponsor and partner for conference this year as we think about um the future of the world of work, human plus AI. Um, integrity is a core part of that. Um, and so looking forward to our continued partnership. Thank you, Dr.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic Summing. Thank you very much to you.
SPEAKER_03Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. If you enjoyed that, um please like, subscribe, and share. Join us again on the IOP lens where we share IOP stories, IOP journeys, and we look forward to seeing you at the Subsa conference. Thank you.