New Business Diaries: Ellie Olliff and Sophie Devonshire

Sophie Devonshire, Chief Executive of The Marketing Society, joins the IPA New Business Diaries podcast to talk to BBH London's Ellie Olliff about what clients really want from their agencies and how purpose and culture can make the difference between a transactional relationship and a true partnership.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome to the New Business Libraries brought to you by the IPA New Business and Marketing Group. In this series, we speak to some of the biggest names in our industry on the hot topics in the new business world. I'm Ellie Olif, New Business Director and Partner at BBH, and in this episode, I'm joined by someone who's had a truly fascinating career across brands, agencies, startups, and now one of the most influential marketing networks in the world. Sophie Devonshire is Chief Executive of the Marketing Society, the influential global community of marketing change leaders. She's a best-selling author, entrepreneur, and brand builder. Her career began with global icons Procter ⁇ Gamble and Coca-Cola before moving agency side with Leah Burnett and Interbrand. She's also been a consultant for the C-suite on pace and purpose and founded, grew, and successfully sold her own e-commerce business. Sophie is passionate about positive leadership and the role business can play in driving progress. She's written two books, Love Work, The Seven Steps to Thrive at Work, and Superfast, Lead at Speed, a number one Amazon bestseller shortlisted for Business Book of the Year. Founded in London in 1959, the Marketing Society has become a dynamic, impactful global community with members worldwide and hubs in London, Scotland, Singapore, Hong Kong, New York, and the GCC, with more expansion planned in the Middle East. At its heart, world-class events, inspiration and meaningful connections. Sophie became chief executive in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, and has been driving the society's growth and impact ever since. Wow, what a bio. Clearly, Sophie has a very unique perspective on clients and what they really want from agencies. And that's exactly what we'll be talking about. How agencies can stand out in a crowded market, how leadership style and pace influence new business, and how purpose and culture can make the difference between a transactional relationship and a true partnership. Most importantly, we'll be discussing practical ideas you can use to lead new business with more clarity, confidence, and impact. Sophie, welcome. It's such a pleasure to have you here. It's great to be here. I love this topic. It's so important, so fun to talk about. Yeah, I can't wait to get into it. But firstly, um, a bit of scene setting for people who don't know you, which I can't believe there isn't anyone that doesn't know you, but you've had a very varied career. And if you look back, what do you think shaped the way you think about leadership and business most?

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Oh, interesting question. So I am really interested in the concept of 21st century leadership, the way it needs to be different, the fact that we need to get the pace right and move in a different direction. And that did, of course, start right at the beginning with my time at PG. I fell completely in love. As soon as I joined, I fell in love with marketing and brands and the brilliance of our industry. I fell in love with business, the impact it has in the world, uh, how interesting it is. Also fell in love with a person who's now my husband, which is a whole other story. Um, but what I saw there was how business can be a force for good in society and the impact great leaders have. So I work with some fantastic people there. Then across my career, I saw the importance of pace as part of that. So moving from big multinationals to a startup, you get into the idea of pace. So, where does that fit within leadership, especially in a world which we know is moving super fast and is not going to slow down anytime soon? But the real thing that made a huge difference for me was writing my first book, Superfast Lead at Speed, because I spoke to a hundred different leaders in all kinds of different businesses to really understand actually the ways in which you can move fast but in the right direction as a leader. And that I think is quite relevant to the conversations we're having today about what's happening inside agencies and the leadership of agencies and what's happening inside businesses from a client side as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

And for those who don't know the Marketing Society, can you give us a sense of its role and why it matters today?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

It's an incredible community. I uh so love being part of everything we're doing right now. Marketeers have never been more important in business, in what's happening in each of the economies we're in. But they while they're they've never been more valuable, they've also never been more vulnerable in lots of ways. And to have a community of individuals, we have the best and brightest voices who are our members. They're people who have a proven track record of influencing their businesses and the community and um the society at large and culture. They're incredible people. And the role they play in uh unlocking the best in each other, so working together as a community, but bringing people the kind of insight and inspiration that they need to succeed, to help them do well, to do good, and to feel good about working, one of the best professions of the world, it's incredibly important. So we're a not-for-profit membership organization, been around for 65 years, but we are for marketeers who mean business. So people who want to make an impact and make a difference, and having a community that accelerates that, makes it easier and more enjoyable, feels really powerful right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Amazing. So you clearly have a very unrivaled access to CMOs and senior marketing leaders. Um, I think what our audience would love to hear is what you're hearing from them right now, what's keeping them up at night.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

These are interesting times. While there are lots of challenges for marketing leaders right now, uh, and in fact, our theme this year at the Marketing Society's Changemakers Conference is this idea of challenge. And we'll come back to that. Well, there are lots of challenges. Actually, I think what's keeping a lot of people up at night at the moment is the fact there are opportunities. This is the moment for marketeers to step forward in business. So if we want to accelerate responsible business growth to have that growth in businesses today and long-term brand value for the companies that we're working in and stewarding and driving, we need to make sure we are enabling the marketeers to have that impact. Business is fundamentally, you know, linked to marketing and marketing drives business growth. So these CMOs have on their minds the potential to be the ones leading the conversation in a world that's moving very fast and changing very fast. So as AI becomes the new wave of revolution which is hitting all organizations, making sure that the business is customer-centric, that we are driven by what the audience needs, that we're able to meet that value, sorry, meet those needs profitably, that's the opportunity for marketeers. They're the ones that can really deal with the ambiguity that's going on. So I think what's keeping up at night is the opportunity and what can happen. But they do need, there's a need for speed in delivering that, and there is huge pressure. You know, we certainly in the UK, let's talk particularly about what's happening in in the UK. We need growth, we need flourishing, we need economic success, and marketeers can be the ones that drive that. They have to make it happen, they have to make it happen fast, and there is so much choice in what they can do, so much complexity, so much need for them to play different roles inside the business that the pressure is very, very real. So the pressure is there, the pace is there, and a sense of purpose because the good ones know that they can make a real difference in business if they get it right.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

And how can we as agency partners help them with that?

SPEAKER_01 7:49

There is probably the the the understanding that's needed is around simplicity. So because there is so much complexity, so much choice, I think all CMOs, marketing leaders, decision makers in business, change leaders are looking for curation, collation, clarity to help them get to where they want to quicker and faster. I think understanding the pressure, uh, having worked both sides, it's very interesting. Having been a client, having worked inside agencies and advise people both sides, and we see it within the community we have of individuals within the marketing society who play different roles. There is definitely a need to really get close to what the other person is experiencing and have empathy both sides in the same way as we need it with our customers. Simplicity, speed at all costs, and of course I'm gonna say that because I'm fascinated by that, but I do see it as a need that people don't quite get. Um, one of the biggest competitors for us within the marketing society with our members is time. Nobody has enough of it. We all want 36 hours in a day. Uh the ways in which agency partners can help speed up and simplify the lives of their clients cannot be underestimated.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

And where do you think agencies sometimes misread or um overcomplicate where clients what clients are looking for?

SPEAKER_01 9:22

I do think everything needs to come back down to business goals and objectives. There's quite a lot of conversation that always goes on within the society and within the industry and community generally about language. So making sure that we are uh communicating with each other in a way that fundamentally drives us back to business language and business success and what's needed around the business. It's very easy sometimes. Rory Sutherland, uh fellow of the Marketing Society, and uh obviously loves talking about uh all kinds of things. Um but one of my favourite things is is he's picked it up from someone else. This idea that marketeers talking about marketing and advertising often feel to people outside of the industry like people talking about star signs. So if you believe in star signs, you hear someone talking about it, you're like, yeah, that's great. If you don't, it feels like something that's a little woo-woo and certainly not right. And there's certainly something with that. So I do think uh finding ways to make sure you understand the business and ramping back into the fact that that's part of it is sometimes underestimated. And also just, you know, I'll make this point again: speed and simplicity. Nobody needs enormous decks and slides. They need the power of those big ideas, they need the narrative that that you can take back and sell on and help other people understand inside the organization. And you need to give people, we always need to give people the confidence in impact. One of the most beautiful and brilliant things about marketing and advertising is that it does involve ambiguity. It involves risk, right? Um, so that's why marketeers right now, I think, are the ones who can lead organizations into a uh uncertain future because they're comfortable with change and ambiguity. But but we are always asking clients to therefore take a risk with what they're doing. How can you give them some confidence, some clarity to share that internally as well as taking the bets themselves?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Amazing. Um so you touched on how it's obviously a very hard market out there for marketers, and it is very much the same for the agency landscape. I mean, it's more clattered than ever. We've got in-housing consolidation, consultancies, AI. Um, can't have a podcast without talking about AI, can we? But how do you think agencies can avoid blending into the sea of sameness and standout for clients?

SPEAKER_01 11:54

It's uh so interesting, isn't it? Yes. Um, how do you brand yourselves? Um, cobbler's shoes and all that, it's it's it's often very hard. One of the things I see over and again is the incredible power of other people recommending people, and also the the fundamental truth that we all know, which is that people buy people. So I think in an AI world, this is going to become more important than ever. So we see it in organizations generally, those people who have some kind of publicly facing profile for the individuals inside the business, that makes it feel more human. Um, that helps the brand. Same is definitely true in agencies. Um understanding the culture and the reality of an agency because you understand a few people who represent it is really, really powerful. Now, with brands generally, we all buy emotionally and justify rationally, right? That's how it works. And the same is probably often true with um agency selections. Yes, you need all the credibility and the kudos and the and the awards, if that matters to people, but the stories and the testimonials and the case studies. But if you've got a personal connection with somebody, it has huge power. So this is what we see in the room where it happens. So um at our annual dinner, which takes place every year, we see conversations around the size of people connecting with each other on a human level. And it isn't ever we we ban sales and conversations and solicitation within our events. But what you get is people feeling like they're on the same side because they're there as part of a marketing body and an industry and a community, talking about what matters, shared uh goals and objectives. So they build those relationships. So I think there's going to be a a lot more. What we see happening is there's gonna be a lot more pressure on making sure there are the individual representatives from agencies who who help with that sell. They're not selling, they're just being human and making those connections. The other thing that we we see often is how much we need our friends and tribes to continue to curate um selections for us. As you say, so much choice in life generally. So whether it's uh the influences you get in the beauty industry of, you know, Sally Hughes endorsing something, and therefore it it helps you simplify choice. Same is true in the agency world. I see it within our community. People will ask each other, who have you worked with on this? What was the experience like? Um so the friend recommended thing is still incredibly strong. And yes, of course, you've then got to go through due diligence and make it happen. So I would say never underestimate the power of the recommendations within a network, within a community, and what that takes over time. It's not turning up to one event and selling, it's making sure you're part of the conversations that are happening in the industry, in the profession, so that you feel like you're all on one team, building those connections that over time means then when someone says, I'm thinking of working with so and so, and someone else says, Oh, but I met them and I had a conversation with them and they were human and smart. It is really interesting to see the influence that can have.

SPEAKER_00 15:11

Yeah. And is that just at the leadership level, do you think? So the CEO of the agencies, or is I I always say I think it's important that the whole agency is out there networking. You can't, like you said, you can't underestimate the importance of networking and building up those relationships, and everyone should be a voice for your agency as long as you've got a clear North Star of what you stand for. We encourage everyone to be out and about at events, talking to marketers and clients giving recommendations is one of the best sources of new business, we find definitely.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

I think it's a brilliant point on two fronts. Um, first of all, if you've got everybody out and about, what they're doing is bringing insight back inside to the organization, their eyes and ears. You know, we cannot build innovation or um understanding by just looking at our decks and our desks and our Excel. We, you know, everybody should be out there and learning. Um it's it's absolutely true, whether you're agency side or brand side. Keith Weed, um Fellow of the Marketing Society, ex CMO at Unilever, so the role of a great marketer is to bring the outside in and the future forward. So there's something in there about being out and about in events, but absolutely, Ellie. I mean, if you think about how people experience brands generally, you know, we talk a lot about it's not just communication, it is experience and the different um customer journey points that make a difference, everything that's going on. Same is true in terms of agency experience. So any connection you have with somebody who works for an organization, hearing them on a podcast, meeting them at an event, junior, senior, it's about the people and they are part of the brand. So really understanding that and the difference it can make is, I think, priceless.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah, I completely agree. Um, so in your book, Superfast, which I've just read and it's brilliant. Um you talk about the power of pace. How does an a a leader's energy and tempo influence winning new business, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

This is huge. Energy is everything. It's uh there's a there's a great book. Have you read Paul Arden's It's Not How Good You Are, It's How Good You Want to Be?

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Love it. Recommend it to everybody, particularly agency side. It's a fantastic book. And he says energy is everything, basically, in that as well, from an agency point of view. Um I think his his subline is if you don't have any, be nice. Um but certainly um it's it's one of the key tenets that we discovered with super fast lead at speed and the research we were doing about how important energy is for being a great leader inside an agency. So important. It's contagious, it's infectious, you help energize others if you have it. Uh without energy, you cannot be creative and think differently and um challenge, you know, our word of the year, challenge the status quo, challenge what's happening, believe in things being different and possible. Uit that energy, you also don't enjoy your work. So we spend 90,000 hours of our lives at work. It's pretty tough in the agency world, but it's also pretty amazing, right? Marketing and advertising is still one of the most fascinating and can be one of the most fun places to be. You enjoy it more if you have a little bit more energy. And I'm not just talking about the caffeine, so I sit here with my coffee. I'm talking about working out what energizes you personally, and it could be all kinds of different things. We have a in the book, there's a a great uh CEO of a media uh company who was an introvert. And because when you're in that kind of role, you have to have lots of meetings. He planned his days where he'd go back inside uh his office after each meeting, 15 minute slots, to listen to music, because music energized him. So working out what you do and how you fit that into your week so you can have the energy means you can therefore enjoy it when you go to events, you know, after a long day, because you've got the energy and then you're connecting with people. You never know when they're going to be useful people or interesting people to talk to. Um, and energy is something that allows you to thrive rather than just survive when the pace is so tough. And it is tough, right? We know we have there's an acceptance there of it is not easy, but still, we're not going down the pit. Let's keep it in the context as well.

SPEAKER_00 19:23

I love the bit about Barack Obama, have they starting each day with 45 minutes of exercise, and you said if he if the president of the United States at the time could do it, then so can we, and that definitely inspired me. And that's how you get your energy, like you say.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Um it's also important, and with that, I mean, I think what's helpful about that kind of thing is the more we can share the stories of what I mean, one of our central tenets for the society is to expand the perspectives of what great marketeers and leaders can achieve. The more you show what's possible why by sharing the example of that, and we do it on a more prosaic basis by sharing some examples of what people within the agency of marketing world do, the more you can go, oh yeah, that is possible for us.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah. If they can do it, so can I. Um, in new business specifically, how should leaders balance the need to respond quickly with the need to pause and be strategic? So obviously, we've talked a lot about place pace, but is slower sometimes smarter?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Well, uh great leaders are pace setters. And when we talk about pace, everybody immediately defaults to a fast pace. But although the book's called Super Fast, and we know that the world requires a need for speed right now, actually, leadership is about that pace setting and variable pace setting. So knowing when to build in the pauses to think, to create, to rest and recharge, which is incredibly important, it's got to be sustainable. We know how easy it is to get to burnout, particularly from an agency point of view. But um, I love the the planning around what's going on. So before you start an important project, and maybe it's a pitch, you know, do the pause to do the pre-mortem. What's going to go wrong? Figure it out. If you build in a pause halfway through something, uh, fun fact, science shows people always speed up when you tell them they're halfway through, but you can also check that you're on track if you've built that pause in. Building in a pause straight afterwards, fast feedback, what work well, even better if. But there's building in the slower moments where there's time to think or time, time to reflect, or time to connect is absolutely critical and to be part of it as well. The um there's certainly uh, I do think understanding quite how busy senior marketing leaders are and respecting that, and not just respecting it by saying, I know you're busy, but actually being clear about what you're going to cover, being sensitive to timing, responding when you want to. There's a reliability piece there that does mean that you need to be able to act fast, but actually to Get the creativity and the uh the thoughtfulness, building in the moments to slow down um to help you speed up is really important.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I think someone when I started in the industry uh told me that you are one as an agency, you're like one to five percent of a marketer's day, so you're the most exciting part of their day, but you are very, very small. So, yeah, make it so that you're useful and giving them the information, the format they need, but you are a very small part of everything they have to do, which is always worth remembering, especially pitching, because it takes up so much of people's time both sides, but it's how can you do that efficiently? Um, so looking at purpose, obviously it's everywhere, but is it something that clients and we talk about it a lot as agencies, but is it something that clients generally buy into, or is it more they're looking for performance and delivery, especially in the current climate?

SPEAKER_01 22:49

We need to define what we mean by purpose when we talk about all this. And yes, it's talked about a lot, and it when we talk about so there are three different types. There is organizational purpose, what do you exist and brand, you know, what does the brand exist to do, what does the business exist to do, and understanding how that fits is really, really fundamentally important. There's also the the questions about what role your product plays, for example. So um there's a great video um by Clay Christensen talking about uh the role of the milkshake in um uh McDonald's. You know, the the what what job is it doing? You know, actually the job it's doing, you think of it as uh feeding somebody, but actually sometimes the job it's doing is entertainment, you know, and boredom, trying to think smartly about the purpose of what you're doing and what they're doing. So there's organizational purpose, which is still very relevant. Uh, where there's been a lot of debate and discussion, of course, is where it's purpose used as a way to tell a little bit of a story which is not linked to uh delivery and that gets much more complicated. There's also individual purpose. So all of us, if you look at um Dan Pink's work in his book Drive, where he talks about autonomy, mastery, and purpose, purpose with a small P is people feeling like what they are doing is having an impact and having an effect. And that's also relevant for agencies and marketeers right now, because actually bringing people together to show the impact of their work when you're leading a team and how their purpose is linked to the greater purpose of the organization or the brand is important. Uh, I do think understanding what the leader is that you're working with is motivated by, what their legacy should be. So always asking what a CEO or CMO, what's their legacy? Sometimes their legacy is long-term, so they're building a purpose-led organization that really does want to make a long-term difference. Uh, sometimes they are more motivated because they're private equity backed by uh, you know, the need for speed and delivery. So there's something about understanding the needs behind the people that you're working with and where purpose fits within all that that makes a difference. But let's not underestimate. There is still a human story in everything we do, not just with our end customers, but with the relationship between the people that you're working with. Um, you want to make them famous, you want to make them feel fulfilled. That's what you're fundamentally doing as an agency, is helping that client do what they want to do. So asking what they want to do matters.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Yeah, very good tip. And how do you think most successful agencies you see build long-term trusted partnerships rather than just the short-term transactional ones?

SPEAKER_01 25:44

There are some really good examples that you see out there, but it requires thoughtfulness and care and trying not to do obvious things, but it but it's like anything else. It starts with human understanding. So that question, what does that person want? How can I get to know them as a human? Uh, not just what they need from a business point of view, but how are they motivated? How do they respond? I was talking to my team this morning about different ways in which you use AI. We were having a big conversation about it, and one of the things that came up was um a reference to Crystal Nose, um, which was a tool I used years ago, certainly when I was more consultancy side. Crystal Nose scrapes the internet to uh give you a disk profile of people that you meet. It's a really good networking tool, and you can do it quite a lot with chat and other things now. So if you know when you're meeting somebody, um, because they've got a digital footprint and you've you've checked it, what kind of disk profile they are, you can absolutely tailor things around them to really build the relationship. So, for example, I'm ridiculously impatient, I want to use time well, you know, I will be interested in that knee for speed. Someone else may need rational, logical arguments, someone might not like being told what to do. So I part of a relationship is just human understanding and starting with that, and then giving people the bits around the edges, right? So um I love it when I see um examples that our members talk about where they've been helped by their agency with a I saw this and thought of you. So it's not just this is the task you've given me, I'm delivering it, but I'm creatively um making your life better by supporting you in other ways. So in um my second book, Love for Work, we talk about work and um people is it is it is like a relationship and really nurturing that. You you know, it works both sides, you and the company. Same is obviously true with uh an agency-client relationship. It's human and human. And if you think about all the rules that apply to marriage counselling and relationships, it's the same. Respect, trust, giving yourselves time to be together. Um, but it actually is worth slowing down to figure that out and manage it as a strategy, not just panicking when um things come up for renewal or at those points.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I think that's also true of prospective clients as well. I think so there's more than ever and there's a lot of CMOs out of work at the moment in between us. Um, and I think that's something that you can do as trying to be there. I thought of you, I know you're going for this job interview, or I know you're looking at the moment, I've I've seen this, I've got this thought leadership piece. So it's it's agency relationships, but also potential agency relationships with CMOs who are moving around because we know that's one of the biggest move, that's one of the biggest indicators, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:37

And that is an excellent point because the thing you hear time and again from even very senior, brilliant marketeers is how they're dropped by people when they're not enrolled. So they're invited to speak or invited to an event, and then all of a sudden that all dries up. So um one of the things we would always say is, you know, support people through that. It's human and decent and whatever, if you can make sure, and people have got more time, so it's a great way to build relationships. It makes long-term sense, and it's also the decent thing to do, which we need more of.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Very much so. So, looking ahead, what are the new business trends that are emerging from the marketing society network that agencies should should be paying attention to?

SPEAKER_01 29:18

There are so many things going on at the moment. We we know that the number one area of confusion for people at the moment is where is AI fitting in the plan? And it's not as simple as going in with some expertise, but again, it goes back to that human understanding piece. If you know it's complex, what could you do to figure that out and take it through? And it's such a huge topic because it's not just about being efficient, it's about being effective, it's generative, it's it's agentic. But there's something in there about if we go back to that key insight, that marketeers do not have enough time. Yes, AI will be a way of helping with that, but they don't have time to learn about it. So I do see consistently that marketers often lean on their agencies for outside insights. So going back to the point about getting out and about and learning and taking that back in. Um, nuggets rather than big reports. By the way, I've seen this, they've done this, that was interesting. Have we thought about what's going on here? Um, yeah, invites to interesting events, other things that are going on are great, but giving them the um TLDR um on what they need to know around that's really important. So there's all, I mean, I could list there's all kinds of topics that we keep talking about and that are going on from integration to um to everything that's happening in in tech and and pace uh to getting it right. And and we have a consistent trend tracker. So we work with Playverto, who are a gamification research company who are brilliant, to constantly ask our members what's on their mind, what's keeping them up at night, and that pulse keeps changing. So it's worth keeping an eye on that as we report on it and pick up on it. But jumping in on the conversations and seeing what's happening, again, I see the most skilled new business and business growth agency people attending those conversations, being at them, seeing what people are saying and finding ways to be in the room where it happens rather than just, you know, reading about it, being able to listen and get closer to your customer.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

And if you were running an agency today, what would you be doing differently to set it up for growth over the next five years? Very big question, I know.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Oh, yes, that would be fun. And what do you call it? And how do we make it happen? Uh I would make sure that there is an exact mix of all the tools possible to make it as efficient as possible, because that's one of the exciting things about this moment in which we live. The AI tools, the tech tools, the setup should make it as efficient as possible. But fundamentally, to staff it with the best people, people. Because the business of business is relationships, and certainly the business of the agency world is relationships. So people who are good at understanding other people and building those relationships are gold dust.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

And then what does success mean to you now personally and professionally?

SPEAKER_01 32:29

I really like uh Maya Angelou's uh words on this. She's so wise and so many great phrases that haze. Um she says success is loving who you are, what you do, and how you do it. So for me, I think that life is too short not to love what you do. So I'm really interested in how to enjoy it more to help our members of the marketing society enjoy what they do, loving what they do, how they do it, taking pride in it and celebrating it and figuring all that out together. And success is about understanding that we don't have to do it alone. Leadership is lonely, business is stressful. But when you have a community, when you build a network, you build a tribe, you can uplift each other, you can unlock the best in each other, and you can celebrate the positives as well. It's very easy to be critical in our industry of the things that go wrong or what other people are doing. But there's something so gorgeous about championing and cheerleading each other. It's an incredibly interesting world, and what we do is fascinating. So success is is about being able to celebrate what happens and the impact it has, the impact it has on business growth, the impact it has on people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

I love that. And as you said earlier, we spend so much of our time at work. You have to love what you do. So if you were gonna end the podcast by giving three pieces of advice for new business and marketing leaders listening, what would they be? Get out if you don't love it.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Uh well, that's that's that's a complex one. So it's like the relationship piece of love work, right? You don't, it isn't just leaving, you can often discover or recover your relationship a better relationship with work, even within it. So it's not just a a linear one, you can you can change that. But the um pieces of advice I would give would be one build your personal brand, and lots of people hate that phrase. All I mean is be yourself with more skill and make sure that you're building um an awareness of who you are and what you do, because at whatever level you're at, you're therefore able to build better relationships, better connections, and that's that brings warmth and wisdom and a wonderful amount of new business by by doing it. I would certainly say uh build up your peripheral vision. So not just looking down and um at your category and at your business and your in industry, but looking up and about and learning voraciously, curiously. We're supposed to be the industry that is a curious, connected industry. And too often, because we're too busy at work, we say no to going to an event, we say no to listening to a podcast, and we shut down the ability to be curious. So know who you are and talk about it, build your brand, build your brain by getting out there and connecting, and do everything you can to figure out how to get the pace right. So allowing yourself time to cherish and enjoy and savour all the good things in life and slowing down to do that, allowing yourself time to think and building it in and to connect and time to recover when you've had an intense period, but also finding the shortcuts, finding the accelerators, using frameworks, using the tools that are out there to get to what matters faster.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Amazing. Thank you so much. I mean, you've shared so many insights today that I know I personally am going to take away, and I know our listeners will. But we like to close each episode by sharing three, our three take it outs from conversation today. And I don't know how I'm gonna choose three, but I think definitely you can't underestimate the power of relationships and networks, people by people ultimately, and that's more important now than ever in an AI world. Um clarity beats complexity, so clients want simplicity and solutions, not jargon of ads. So I think that's really on us as agencies, people of how we can deliver that. Um, and for new business leaders, it's leadership, leadership sets the pace. So the energy and focus of leaders shapes how teams win new business, is really important. Um, there's so many more I could say, but thank you so much for being today. Our brilliant, brilliant guest on today's podcast. Thank you all for listening. We hope this episode has given you fresh ideas and confidence for your own new business challenges. If you enjoyed it, please do follow Rate and share the New Business Diaries podcast so more people in our industry can learn from conversations like this.