#5. John Wick (2015) w/ Michael #filmreview

In this podcast, Andrew reviews John Wick with Michael.

~ FILM SUGGESTIONS ~

Comment about films you guy's want to see, and I'll credit you.

~ HOST ~

Andrew Heilman is a student film producer, owner operator of Heilman Productions (a free-lance media/film production company in Silicon Valley) and social media editor.

~ GUESTS ~

The guests for this show are people who are not actively seeking a career in the film and television industries.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to Both Sides, a podcast between a film industry insider and an outsider to get their unique perspectives on movies. I'm your host, Andrew Heilmann. I'm the owner of a production company, a camera operator, editor, and film student. Today my guest is my friend Michael, and we'll be watching John Wick. Stay tuned till the end to hear our final reviews of the film. And in case you need a refresher or you've never seen it, here's the story in a nutshell. At the beginning of John Wick, retired hitman John Wick is grieving the death of his wife when a group of gangsters steals his car and kills the puppy she left him. Their actions pull John Wick back into the violent criminal world he once left behind. In the middle and end, John hunts down the people responsible while fighting assassins and mobsters sent to stop him. After a series of brutal confrontations, he kills the gang leader's son and defeats the crime boss himself, reclaiming his freedom while beginning a new life with another dog. Now, let's talk about this movie. Alright, and we are alive, and that was John Wick. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 1:25

Well, I thought that it was I thought that it only ended with the death of the son. So I I thought that the other guy was dealt with maybe later in the series and stuff like that. So there was a lot more in the after the son got killed than I thought that was. Because I've seen a lot of clips of John Wick, obviously. Obviously. But I haven't seen like the whole movie. So seeing that there was a lot more like that's why I wanted to watch the movie, because now I actually know what happens. And so uh I thought the pacing was pretty good. I mean that time flew by.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

So Yes, that's how you can tell it's an action movie.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Yeah, and and that's what I was gonna say is the action of that movie was some of the best I've ever seen. Like, you know, there's another um what is it called? There's another movie I think called The Riot or something like that. It's a Korean uh, I believe, film that's a very, very similar to this. And a lot of people say that that even has even better choreography in it. And it might. I have no idea. I've never seen it. Maybe we'll need to watch it or something.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Um if there's anything Asian Asian films are great at, it's uh for sure choreography. I mean, Kung Fu movies like absolutely ruled the 60s and 70s and 80s.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

So I would like the gunplay was really good seeing the way that he handled all the weapons and all that. Like I said, I already knew that that was gonna be really impressive and stu exactly what I thought it was going to be. Um in terms of the technicalities this time, like I said, I haven't no I didn't notice anything like weird about the movie or anything like that in terms of like my viewing experience. So I would say that pretty good time.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah, I had a good time too. I I was thinking about it as I was kind of watching this movie what what I was feeling about, obviously, since this is uh supposed to be a film review. Um to me, because I've seen the John Wick movies, I think I've seen one, two, three, maybe four, but I've all I've seen them all only once and kind of like half paying attention to them the first time I saw them. And you you haven't seen any of them. Um this movie, believe it or not, is not even the peak of this character. Um because he gets a lot more intricate and complicated and more advanced um as a character, and he does a lot more like the choreography just gets better and better and better as they're constantly innovating um the stunt work in this franchise from my recollection. This movie feels if there's a way I can um I can uh I can categorize it in in an understandable way to me, is if it feels like a Batman begins sort of movie in a franchise where it doesn't have the most compelling plot in the world, and its sole purpose is to introduce this character and this character's backstory so that the overarching overarching narrative can be told about this character. Like using the analogy of um Batman Begins, uh obviously most people think that the Dark Knight is much better than Batman Begins. It's the second movie in the in the trilogy. And I think that's sequels can do that. That's one of the greatest things about sequels, is sequels can be better than the original because sequels don't need to establish characters, and that's where you get some so much of the innovation of the medium is through sequels because it's a much more creative endeavor, because there are certain things you have to do when you're starting a franchise. You have to show the main character, you need to show their backstory, you need to show where they're come what they've come from, what their motives are, and then you only really get absolute creative freedom when you take those characters that you've already taught the audience about and then put them in unique and interesting situations. And I think John Wick 2 and 3 are, from what I remember, a lot more interesting in terms of narrative than this movie. To me, I see this movie as a very generally I see it as a very simplistic action movie. Obviously, there's intricacies involved, but when I say simplistic, I mean it's almost cartoonishly simplistic, where the audience knows for a fact who the bad guys are, who the good guys are, and you know, it it's not really deep in that way, where in something like The Dark Knight, um, Heath Ledger's Joker could be a good guy or a bad guy. He's that complicated and difficult of a character to really understand that it it's it's food for the fodder versus, you know, the characters in the the antagonists in the first John Wick movie are very obviously evil and they don't they don't feel very complicated. And you know, you can't really judge an action movie with like this the standard of like, you know, uh uh the standard of like Shakespearean level uh complicated characters and and I understand that when they want to make an action movie that the priority is stunts and um action. Though if I were to make a movie like this, I would spend a lot more time trying to make the main characters more complicated because those are the those are the that's those are the things that keep me engaged and interested and interested because I'm not that big of an action movie fan myself. Um it's very, very impressive and very hard to do. Like I've made a few student films in my time, and there's a reason they they teach you in film school to write about what is accessible to you, because as soon as you try to write in a story with like police car chases and people getting shot, and all there's so many logistical problems that happen when you make a super elaborate action movie. Um and then move this movie is impressive for sure in that vein, though I remember it getting a lot better as the franchise moved on. Um a few things I liked about the movie and I noticed a lot is the production design was really was really interesting. In in the storytelling medium of film, we we often talk about sym symbolism, which is basically you know, everyone knows what symbolism is, but movies are a visual storytelling medium. It's it's different than music, it's different than uh books. You tell the story through images. And one of the best ways to do that is through symbolism, because you you need to tell very, you know, a picture's worth a thousand words, and with symbolism, a picture could be worth, you know, a million words. Um and one of the cool things that they did with the production design is that in the beginning of the movie with John Wick's, you know, modern modern house, he's obviously living alone, and everything is perfect. It's like it's all white, everything's put together, everything's organized, and it's very bland. And it's perfectly symbolic of this character and their state in life. They're just a really bland person with the col you know, the woman's touch or their color in their life taken away from them. And then you get to see that contrast when the dog gets brought into the picture, and without even words, the you're communicating to your audience with having this lonely person in a completely almost void-like house with this one colorful thing in their life. You're you don't you don't need dialogue to explain to an audience how significant that dog is in contrast to the character in their environment. And that's a a great example of production design. There was another there was another one. I have a few notes here. I'm trying to remember where there was another one. Oh yeah, so another example of great production production design is late at the end of the film where he's um they call it the cold the they call it a cold open, you know, when the movie starts with a almost like a big hook of a inciting incident or a dramatic, you know, thing, and then they go back and retell the story through flashback or something. Um so they do that with this movie, and in the end of the movie, we you know we go back to present, we go back to the present of him getting up off the floor and going into the animal shelter or you know, pound or whatever and healing himself. And I think that act of choosing to put him in an animal shelter looking for medic uh medicine, as opposed to like a CVS or a you know, whatever. Um, specifically an animal shelter, I think that's a cool way to use production design, which is just the act of creating a scene for a character to be in in a movie, um, like the actual set that they're on. I think I thought that that was cool because the medicine and the shelter symbolized, in my opinion, the healing process that these animals have in this character's life, and it's it feels like a callback to uh what this this dog that he had in his life from his wife that had this healing property to it. And you know, it it's a great example of you know, there are ways to to tie characters into a story and make callbacks and all this kind of stuff. You don't just have to keep every single thing fresh and new and a new environment. You can use callbacks and you can use symbolism to strengthen the message of a movie. Um, and that was just uh a thing that I noticed. Was there any other things that you noticed, do you think? Or do you agree or disagree with anything that I just said?

SPEAKER_02 12:06

No, I agree with the symbolism and the uh animal like like in a hospital, but like medical supplies that he used healing himself, also being a symbol of like the healing he's going through in his own life, like his journey. Um, I didn't really notice, like I do agree with you saying that this is a very simple uh movie, because like I said, there wasn't a lot of like or like you said, there wasn't a lot of like plot points or anything. It was we were given who was the bad guy. This was like a showcase. This is our new character, this is the kind of shit he does, get ready for the real movie. Uh and I'm not saying that this isn't a real movie or anything, but I'm just saying like this feels more like a these are what we're gonna be working with, get ready. That's what kind of what Rocky One felt like since we were watching that. Not that it was a bad movie either, but it felt like this is what we're doing, get ready. This is the point of the series. Um, like you said, the first movie in a series is always going to have to have those problems, or not problems, but like the same plot points every time, explaining who we're dealing with, the what, where, why, when, all those kind of things. And then we can get deeper into it afterwards. And I'm excited for that because um I did notice that there wasn't a lot of there wasn't a lot of um. I don't know exactly what the word would be. I guess plot. I mean there was a plot, but like it was just us watching John uh John Wick run around and blast shit out of people. And I love that. And I loved all the scenes. I thought they looked really good. Um, there wasn't a single scene that I thought was like completely unrealistic. Um I do think that if these people were dealing with um these high-end assassins that are like such a problem, they need to be dealt with immediately. Like, for instance, they had John Wick captured and tied to a chair. They could have just put a bullet in his head. But no, they had to go on this long monologue with each other, and then he was able to get out and all that. So, like, there was a couple points where I was like, doing his but uh besides that, um I thought it was a pretty decent movie. I didn't uh there was I don't think it was it wasn't fantastic or anything. And like you said, it was very basic, and I think that's why. So I'm glad to hear that they get a little bit more into uh deeper things than just him running around and slaughtering people in the next ones.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Well, yeah, and also people have to understand that every original IP that you make in a storytelling format is gonna be the riskiest one you take. And that means that you're gonna have to be very safe. Um because if you're not safe, you risk your movie flopping and no one wanting to pay attention to it. Um I think this movie this movie feels, to use a video game analogy, it feels like a beta or an alpha of a video game. It feels like the precursor to things to come. And I think that this movie needed to that's why these single releases are so these first movies are so important, because they're a vote of confidence in the public and future investors and all sorts of people that these characters can be profitable and work, and obviously the best thing about this movie is Keanu Reeves. And he's you know, he he he's the best thing about the movie. If you take uh I like to judge th certain aspects of a m of a movie based on how effective they are by taking them out and seeing if it changes a whole lot. So like I'll take like the son of this um this big bad um example. Um if I take him out of the story and replace him with a just a random hitman, it doesn't really change the story that much. Um obviously you you lose out the in the inter the intricacy and the motivation of the big bad wanting to kill Keanu Reeves because he went after his son, but his son doesn't die until very later in the movie. So it it's it's it's one of those things where if you take out that character, or if you take out any other of the hitmen or whatever, if you take out Willem Defoe, it doesn't really completely alter the story that much. And but if you take John Wick out of that movie, obviously the movie is completely different. And that just goes to show how impactful that character is in that franchise. And you know, he's it it again, it's it's it feels like a beta. It feels like it's introducing these characters so that they can have all the freedom in the world. They introduce the world, they introduce the the underground assassin community, and they laid the foundation and now they get to have fun in the sequels. And that's the general consensus that I've come to with a lot of these kind of movies. The worst thing I think in this movie is, in my opinion, is the dialogue. Um and only because obviously this movie is very stylized. It's stylized in the way it's shot, in the way that it's edited, in the intense music in every scene, and the fast-paced action. So it's not trying to be realistic or innovative or whatever when it comes to dialogue and how characters talk to each other. There's a few really cool lines, but a lot of the lines are just like very straightforward, very unoriginal, very basic. Like what one of the lines is literally like you're uh um one of the the son of the big bad, he goes, Um, I'm not afraid of John Wick, and then the the the hit one of his hitmen that works for him says, Well, you should be, and it's like, come on, that's like that that's that isn't the most original way that you could communicate that point to that character via dialogue. And then there's a few other things that John Wick says at one point where he says, uh, of course, I wrote it down, of course, but it won't matter. What what? That's weird. I can't read my own handwriting. I can't read my own handwriting is the problem.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

I feel like I remember what you're talking about, but I can't really pinpoint the moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I I wrote everything down on sticky notes, and I can't read my own handwriting, unfortunately. Uh yeah, but basically, um there's more examples, but the dialogue isn't my favorite, and I'm a stickler for dialogue. When I hear characters interact with people, I want to hear real human beings talk to each other because as a writer, um, as a screenwriter, I don't want to be pulled out of a movie, pulled out of the illusion of a movie of reality by cliches um and dialogue. So it really didn't help me the look past this movie as just a really simple action movie when it fed into a lot of cliches. But, you know, there's several things that I really enjoyed about this movie. Obviously, the choreography, Ken of Reeves, like I said, the production design, this the cinematography, there were there weren't that many technical errors at all. And it's really hard to do that, like I mentioned in an action movie when it comes to technical errors, because when you think about it, action is really, really difficult to make and to make convincing. And, you know, it's it's just one of those things where if I had this this story, would I play it safe and kind of like feed into these cliches that are known to work for most audiences and whatever, so that I can be guaranteed a sequel, so then I could play with with whatever I wanted. That's kind of like the justification of trying to make a very simple kind of movie like this, in my understanding of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

Right. Um would you do that?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

I don't know. I think if I were revered enough, if I was like a Christopher Nolan, then I would make whatever I wanted. But if this was like my first movie, like my first feature-length movie, I think I would play it maybe a little a little safer.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Okay. Uh, and who who directed this movie? Anyone you know?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

I forgot who directed this movie. I'll look it up right now.

SPEAKER_02 21:16

I just feel like I feel like I've seen a lot of action movies before, and the plots are never really that deep. Uh, so like, because obviously the point that everyone's there is for the action. So usually when I watch an action movie, and I'm not trying to criticize what you're saying in any way, shape, or form, but I'm just saying I am not really paying attention to the plot. But I also can't lie when I when I I am paying attention, I won't say that's not the right way to say it, but I'm just like not here for the plot, you know what I mean? But I will admit that while watching the movie, I was like, this is going really fast. It's basically just a showcase of how badass John Wick is.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Right, and it's it's not really a substantial judgment that has much merit because it's obviously subjective, but my foundation of how I appreciate every critic or every amateur critic has to base their opinion on something, and some people base their opinion on comedy, some people base their opinion on effectiveness, some critics are really political, and they base their movies about their foundation of what's a good movie based on political messaging, spiritual messaging, all that kind of stuff. I base my opinions on movies based on uh based on narrative and plot and story. Um and if it's you know, like I like movies like Creed 2 that we just watched and we made a review about. If you guys haven't seen it, you should go check it out. Um But Creed 2 is an example of, in my opinion, a amazing 50-year, you know, long project that has an incredible narrative based on all of these movies before it, and that's the kind of story that I live for. And that's kind of like what I use to categorize and rate these other movies just because I feel like that's the most important thing to me. Obviously, it's not the most important thing to a lot of people, especially to people who love this genre for the action. Um and you know, everyone's gotta base their opinion on something. And to me, my opinion of this movie is that yes, it is good, it's well made. If you're into the if you're into action movies and your basis of what makes a good action movie is based on if the action is accurate or interesting or innovative, then this franchise is 100% for you. Although if you're not really into action movies and you're trying to see, you know, what's so alluring about these kind of characters from a storytelling perspective, you might be a little disappointed with this movie because it's it doesn't it goes in depth of the motivations and everything, but it's a very simplistic just revenge story. And it doesn't have you know, I one of my favorite revenge stories of all time is the prequel trilogy with uh Anakin Skywalker. I think that revenge story is much more political and nuanced and complicated and dynamic than a revenge story like this movie, mainly because we haven't had three movies to establish the plot yet, or the the character the lore behind the characters. But you know, I mean it's Keanu Reeves shooting up people. I mean, what more can you ask really?

SPEAKER_02 24:48

More of Keanu Reeves shooting people up.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

More Keanu Reeves shooting people up. Uh right now this movie Oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

I was gonna just say, like, what um did you like is like the Matrix a ver an example of a like a uh action movie that has a strong plot that you would like?

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Yes, the Matrix um is one of those movies that again it's an action movie, it's really what it's there for, but the lore building and the creativity and the innovation of that movie, it feels so much more interesting. I mean, we were talking about this when we were playing in and you were watching me play Cyberpunk and we were talking about Cyberpunk. You know, world building can really carry a story, and it it leaves so much interest on the table. And while I think the John Wick movie does a good enough job establishing the world of the movie with you know showing the showing a little bit of the the inner life of the assassin and kind of like the currency they use and all that kind of stuff, I don't think it showed too much uh uh it didn't show enough of it to really feel like it was that different from most other properties versus the matrix. I mean it r the world of the matrix really just pulls you in, and it it's so much more interesting than like a um than a realistic world with a little bit of fantasy elements like the first John Wick has. Um and I think from what I remember John Wick 2 goes even deeper in the world building of the society of the assassins, and it gives a lot more lore and credence to it, and it feels much more like you're being sucked into the story, and it feels much more like the illusion that we all want these movies to be. Um so I really liked The Matrix, and I I'd watch it again. I don't think it's Keanu Reeves' best acting performance. To me, Keanu Reeves is a character actor, at least for the first few couple movies of his career. Um, in fact, I think John Wick is probably one of his better performances that I've seen from him. Um he's just he's a character actor, and I know a little bit about that because I've been a character actor in a few of my projects, where he's not a bad actor, but he he plays a certain role and a certain character and doesn't really experiment with what that character is very often. So, like for an example, uh for my movie that I made that I showed you with uh Sir Lincoln, um, for those of you who don't know, it's a it's a modern adaptation of the story Don Quixote, where um a young adult falls in love with uh the character of Abraham Lincoln and and becomes Abraham Lincoln. That role that I did is an example of a character actor where I don't have to really experiment with the acting, I just need to replicate that character of Abraham Lincoln, and then you know I can convince people that I'm this character trying to be Abraham Lincoln. And it's probably not the best way to explain it, but it's different than method acting where you become a really complicated version of that character. You kind of just like put on a clown outfit and then you know walk and talk like a clown. Um and you can convince people that you're a clown, but you're not this super complicated, dynamic third, uh this super complicated dynamic character that's not um that's not one that that's that's one-dimensional. Um and that's what I feel like uh Keanu Reeves has been in a lot of these movies, like The Matrix, um, and uh he was in the original, he was in the Dracula movie by Francis Ford Coppola. Um, and even to an extent um uh Bill and Ted, um that those characters are not super dynamic third uh three-dimensional characters. They're very simple, they're very straight to the point, they're very understandable. Versus in this movie in John Wick, it feels much more like he's trying to add a little bit of they call it um acting range to it, where we see him cry and laugh and you know be playful and all these kind of emotions that really sell the illusion of this character being a real human being, as opposed to just being a character that you know is in one state of mind pretty much the entire movie. So that's my understanding of him as an actor. Um, but he's gotten he's experimented way more with the dynamics of a a lot of these characters like John Wick and uh Johnny Silverhand in Cyberpunk. So that's my perspective on John Wick on uh Keanu Reeves.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Yeah, honestly, his voice acting for Cyberpunk is probably my favorite thing that he's done, to be honest. Uh, even better than The Matrix, because I am so in love with Cyberpunk, the game. Uh, but so I believe you were getting into the Rotten Tomatoes of it and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yes. So right now, this movie on Rotten Tomatoes with a critic score has an 86 out of 100% and an audience score of 82 um out of 100%. On the popcorn meter. What would you rate it, in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 30:26

I think I am honestly gonna be right there with the general populace. I was actually gonna say 80, so that's what I'm gonna stick with. Um because like I said, like what they were showing off was really high quality, but what they showed off was really basic. Uh in terms of like the plot lines and whatnot. Not in terms of the execution. I think like I said, the actual action of the action movie, which is in my opinion the most important part, was really, really good. But there was like nothing else. And you can't just have nothing else. So I think there's gotta be room for way better executions of really good action movies. And I'm sure there is, and we'll I'm sure we'll probably get to them. So just like I've done with many other uh movies like in the Rocky series and whatnot, I would probably rate I'm gonna rate this a little bit lower. Like I said, I'm gonna probably be about 80.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

And that makes sense and is totally valid. Um I'm gonna go a little lower, I'm gonna give this a 75, only because narrative and s and the overall story of a movie is is what I base my entire life off of. Um, you know, people can say what they want about my work, but Sir Lincoln is a great example of a s of a narrative that, you know, it's not the best shot movie or the best executed or the best acted, but the narrative is interesting in itself, and I thought that the plot and how the story worked from beginning, middle, and end uh was all very satisfying and um uh and good. And that's kind of just the framework that I use for all these movies, not specifically pulling from Sir Lincoln, but in general, I want a movie to really understand what it is and try to innovate and be unique and not fe feed into cliches, even if those cliches make money. We see this problem all the time with horror properties. They'll, you know, they'll feed into the cliche of the you know, half-naked woman running away from the guy with the chainsaw or something because it sells, because that's what people want when they go to a horror movie. But when I go to a horror movie, I want innovation and unique moves and all sorts of stuff. And this movie has a taste of that, but again, I think it's just like a demo reel for the things to come because you kind of need that when you want this overarching, overarching franchise to come out of a movie like this. So I'm gonna give it 75, you're gonna give it 80. Um I do want to watch John Wick 2, because I remember John Wick 2 being very good. So if you're down to watch that, um we'll definitely put one here for it.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Yeah, I'm d I'm down to watch the rest of the series. I want to know where they go with it, because obviously that would uh that's gonna be a part of the whole series' uh like rundown because we can't just like I don't unless the series starts off like absolutely awfully bad, I don't like the idea of interrupt or of starting a series and not finishing it.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

So Right, especially when you know when you go into a franchise that's been around for this long, you're gonna have things come up and words and opinions arise of, you know, like, oh, this was the best thing in the whole franchise was in the third movie, or the best that line of dialogue in the whole franchise was in the fourth movie. So you really feel that tug to want to keep watching to see where the story goes. And I will say about this franchise, I was looking at the Rotten Tomato score of a few of the movies. Um, normally with a franchise or a trilogy or uh or um any of these collections of movies, uh the Rotten Tomato score, the Rotten Tomato score, if they're good enough movies, the Rotten Tomato score for audiences will stay pretty consistent. But for critics, it'll go, you know, it'll drop down off a cliff after the first movie because critics often you know praise innovation and all sorts of stuff. And all these a lot of these franchises can be very plain and simple and just go off of what made the first movie work. But in if it's an instance of um of what's to come, the these movies have increasing Ron Tomato scores from critics. I think the first one has eighty-six, and then the second and third movies have eighty-nine percent. Um, and then the fourth movie is like 90% or something, which is really rare for critics to increasingly enjoy a franchise that exists this long. So I'm excited to see what you'd think of it.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yeah, I love that I uh I love the sound of that. That makes me excited for the rest of the series, because like I said, it started off really good in my opinion for uh an action. Like it was a little bit basic, like you said, but it's got everything it needs to be a lot more. And all they gotta do is do it, and it sounds like they do, so.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Alright, thank you for being here. Hopefully we'll watch another movie soon. Thanks everyone for watching. Make sure to like and subscribe for more content, and I'll see you guys later. Audio spy. Thank you for listening to both sides. What movie do you want us to review next? Let me know and I'll credit you and your username. Like and follow if you enjoyed this podcast, and stayed notified of future reviews. Remember, your right to your opinion matters, whether you're an insider or not. Peace out.