A Scientist and a Comedian Walk Into A Bar... | Climate x Comedy Part 1

Comedian Ashley Botting breaks down the art and craft of sketch, improv, and TV writing. She and Marcius discuss how comedy helps us cope with hard things, and whether it's too soon to laugh about our changing climate.

Show Credits:
Vishrudh Sriramprasad, Producer
Claire Davis, Theme Music (Long Gone, Get It Right) | @clairedavismusic

Kheya Patel, Art | https://kheyapatel.com/

Contact: podontherise@gmail.com

Transcript

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Do you worry though that like in laughing at something it um uh diminishes its importance? Yes. I'm terrified of this. I had anxiety about that, like even before this conversation. Yeah. If um I am like a you know professional climate person with a capital C, if I even engage in the subject of like, is this shit actually funny? Like can we just laugh at the fact that we take jets to climate climate? Like, is that funny kind of? I think it's a little funny. Can we laugh? Even if it's serious. Hypocrisy is funny. Hypocrisy is funny. And it's also you have to point it out. But the thing is, there's so much, and I, you know, I don't want to be respectful, disrespectful to a lot of colleagues, but there's so much scolding about language when we talk about climate. And I'm just wondering, could comedy help us just like? But Marcus, haven't you found that when you scold people and correct their language, they're so much more likely to do the thing they should be doing? I find it just draws people to me. Hello, my friends, and welcome to the On the Rides podcast. I'm your host, Marcus Extavor. Since this is our very first episode, I want to give an extra special thank you to everybody for tuning in, for clicking, and even considering coming on this crazy journey with us. We're trying something new and we're gonna have fun with it. If you are wondering if you're in the right place, maybe you don't think about climate change or technology or energy much, you think it's weird, you have feelings about it. Maybe deep down you think the whole thing is BS. Don't worry, you are in the right place. On the other hand, if you think about this every day, if this is your life, if this worries you, if this keeps you up in any way, or you just work on it professionally, you're also in the right place. We are trying to have conversations that are gonna help you do your job, we hope. And frankly, make stuff that you'll feel comfortable sharing with your parents, your kids, your friends, and your coworkers who deep down, let's face it, may not actually understand what you do every day and wonder, what does she spend all her time doing every day? If you work on this stuff or think about it a lot, you also know that there's a lot of bad stuff out there about these topics. Floods, fires, natural disaster, um, heat death, uh, pandemic, migration, disease, uh, loss of natural habitat, never mind just everything getting expensive. Those are terrible things. And so that naturally brings us to today's question. Is it okay to make fun of this stuff? Is climate change actually funny? Can we make jokes about this? We're always bombarded with negative opinions and news and the doom cycle, so to speak, about climate change. And look, the bad things and the risks are real and they're in our lives now. But we're wondering with today's conversation can we get further, faster, or maybe grow a community of solvers if we lean a little bit more into humor and comedy? Can we? I don't know. Let's find out. I've been thinking about this intersection of hard things and climate and comedy for a long time because maybe you can relate to this. But in my life, comedy is how I deal with a lot of hard stuff. Socially, politically, we've probably all been in situations where you're in a really tense room or a conversation or a social gathering and somebody cuts the tension with a joke. And how does that feel, right? It feels like relieving thank god. You laugh, and then you kind of can think again, you can turn your brain on again, you can remember why it's good. Maybe comedy can help us do that with some of these tough issues related to climate change. Now, uh for this very first episode, I really wanted to get back to my roots and do something in the place where I'm from, Toronto, Canada, where I grew up. So this episode was actually made in Toronto. Shout out Raptors, shout-out Blue Jays. And I'm especially excited to have it have done at a venue that really means something to me. We filmed this at Poetry Jazz Cafe, which is a place I used to actually perform as a musician in Toronto. And just personal to me, it happens to be across the street from another venue where my father, who was also a musician, made a record in the 80s. So I was just sort of touched to happen to be able to film in that part of town. But I'm especially thrilled to welcome today's guest, Ashley Bodding. Ashley Bodding is an improv and sketch and comedy performer and writer. She's toured, she's played locally, she writes for hit shows. Specifically, this hour has 22 minutes, uh, which if you grew up in Canada like me, you know and love. If you're from elsewhere, think of it as Canada's Saturday Night Live. She's also a performer doing improv around Toronto stages. You may catch her there if you're based in Toronto. I'm really excited to bring this conversation to you. So without further ado, let's hear the chat between me and Ashley about whether climate change can actually be funny. Here we go. Well, here we are. I know. We're in the back roof of poetry. Queen West, downtown Toronto. Thank you for doing this. My pleasure. Uh this is a random memory, but my one of my earliest childhood memories is sitting around in a recording studio while my father was making his one and only solo percussion record. Whoa, solo percussion. Do you know a place called the Music Gallery? No. Okay, it's a programming space in Toronto and it's moved around. It used to be at a place right across the street from us, and I only realize this like currently, like where we are currently? It's called the Great Hall. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. The Great Hall used to be the host of an organization called the Music Gallery. Yeah. And uh yeah, I can remember, I don't know, late 80s. And it was did your dad do it live for people? He would organize concerts and force me to perform. So that was like how I became used to being a musician and getting over stage for it, realistically. But he would put on concerts of his own original music. He would just organize shows, usually at the music gallery. And I also know he cut his record there. And he was a percussionist. He was a percussionist, yeah. Hypnotic dramology. Of course. That's what he called what he called hypnotic dramology. Wide wide appeal. That's great. So we're in a place that has meaning to both of us. That's great. We're here to talk about climate change and comedy, which is two topics we both know something about. Or I know a lot about one and nothing about the other. And I know you probably know about both, but especially one. I I think you know more about one than the other. I'm flattering you, but I'm giving you a chance. Um I'll I'll try to explain the goal uh by maybe telling you a little story. I I'm really interested to see if these topics can go together. And I know we're gonna chop it up and see if they do or not, and how they do. But I have a more direct goal that I haven't told you about. I attended something called uh some kind of climate comedy pitch fest. It's actually a competition at New York Climate Week last year. Climate week is like fashion week. It's not one thing, it's like a bunch of events that happen all at the same time. All the climate scientists present their fall line. Well, it's funny. Climate week is like fashion week. It's nothing like fashion week, except it's a bunch of things happening all at one time in one city. Maybe one day they'll merge. Yeah. But a couple friends, uh sort of professional friends, had put on this idea, and I've been obsessed, this Pitch Fest, and I've been obsessed for a while with like comedy, could that help us understand climate? Can it help people relate to climate differently? So I went to the Pitch Fest. And I uh it was the the judges were TV writers, industry people, a couple filmmakers, maybe a comedian, maybe a comedy writer, I forget. And then people were pitching, we're just they're different premises. And I vowed and I said out loud, like, I'm not that funny, but next year I'm gonna come up with something to pitch. And I will pitch it because I love this event and I want it to grow. So I hope after our conversation today, I'll have a couple of ideas that I can work up into a shitty pitch for next year's Comedy Fest and somebody can, or pitch fest, and somebody can take it further than me. I'm happy to be part of this. Amazing. You should definitely be pitching yourself. You actually know how to do this. I think you're doing pretty well so far. Okay, so that's what I'm hoping to get out of today. Yeah. I want to start by asking you kind of about how you actually work and what your process is like and what it's like to be a performer or be an improviser or be a writer. Yeah. But first, just talk about the subject of climate change. Do you care about it at all? What I mean is, do you have any feelings about this subject? When I say climate change, what comes to mind for you? How do you associate and connect to that? I think I have the I think I have the feeling that a lot of people that I know have, which is just um lack of understanding and um utter terror. Say more? Yeah. So I think I feel like you know, it's something that I have to really trust the experts. I'm sitting across one right now, because I don't know what's true. Uh there are many people saying this is happening. Um, there are many people saying this is a hoax. Um, I don't know how one could deny that something's afoot, because, you know, as you know, the winters of our childhoods living in Toronto, Canada, um, are not the winters of of uh of today, you know, maybe this winter excluded, but so some things up. Um but I I feel I feel the dread and terror of uh what climate change will mean for the planet. I feel that the Earth, I have a sense it's gonna keep spinning no matter what we as humans do. Yeah. Do we swear on this? Sure. All right. I'll find a spot. It'd be two force right now. Um but I think that I know that I know that the planet will just continue with another insert um, you know, adjective age. Yep. Um who knows, who knows what organism will will emerge and and take over. Yeah. Um, so I'm not worried. People talk about the planet. I'm not worried about the planet. I'm more worried about us. Same. I'm worried about what becomes of us. Um, I know that I live in a spot, and I'd be curious to know what your expertise is on this, but I know that I live in a particular place, Toronto, Canada, right now, where, you know, they're not like there's no, and I when an ice cap melts, it's I'm not gonna be the first to feel it. When the sea levels rise, it's gonna happen in the Maritimes and NBC before it happens here. Yep. Um, but it's definitely like what does, you know, what does that look like? And also honestly, a longing for uh a climate that I remember. Cold winters, cold falls. Are you saying fall's not cold enough anymore? Like, no, for real. It's weather, right? Yeah, like colder winters, uh winters that are longer, winters that are colder, longer. Yeah. Um, and it could be nostalgia, but I don't think so. I don't think I would make up what I remember about the weather as a child. So I feel I feel fear for what it will do to humanity. Um, and I feel confusion about what how I can do better. And and honestly, if what I do matters. Okay. Yeah. Hold on to that thought about if what I do matters. I think that's a that's a really good one to like focus on because there's a lot of misconceptions, I think, and sometimes weird misdirections, like unplug your phone charger uh at night, or if it's up from the wall, if you're not charging your phone. Yeah, the little block takes a little bit of power, but like nothing. Yeah. Things like plastic straws. Like, well, do you feel like For me that's Is that climate change, or is that like conflating it with like endangered? That is a broader environmental thing. Yeah. Like when you think of plastic straws, you know, how are we how do you how do we communicate about why plastic straws are bad? You show a picture of a sea turtle with a straw, unfortunately jammed up its nose, and you're like, look, these things don't go away, they go into the environment and they get in bad places, bad things happen. And that's all true. Yeah. Um but that's not melting the ice cast. But that's not melting the ice cast. I think I think you, I can, and a lot of people can relate to the idea of existential dread. Yeah. I totally share your viewpoint that this is about us. Not so much about the planet. I think people and our societies are the things we have to fear and how they may be disrupted. But I haven't heard too many people talk about nostalgia. Yeah. I once read this news item and it was elders in Holland. The canals where they have this old famous ice skating culture that freeze over in the winter traditionally. Apparently that really doesn't happen anymore. Here it's a little bit like the what is it, the Rideau Canal in Ottawa freezing, right? And every year it doesn't. My understanding is this year it was a nice, thick, nice thick crust. That hasn't happened for a while. So this this was years ago, but the story out of Holland was wow, the fjords or I forget what, the canals froze. Yeah. And elders were like weeping and remembering their youth. Yeah. We used to skate on this when we were kids. Yeah. Um people probably won't ex don't expect nostalgia for winter, but when you grow up around it, you you crave it. Yeah. Yeah, there's something about the difference and feeling in winter versus summer. And I think we had a cold winter this year, but it started to start to feel like an anomaly, I think. Another question along these lines about climate before we get into sort of more comedy stuff. Um do you think of it more as like an environmental topic, science topic, political topic, something else? Do you bucket it that way? Oh, I think when I was a kid, it was it was environmental, it was scientific, right? I remember when I was sort of, I don't know, maybe 10, 11, there was a play we were doing. It was called Wood on Earth. Yeah. And it was like reduce, reuse, recycle. And that was all starting to come to the forefront and like buying, um, buying refillable, uh, buying refill packages for your plastic uh um bottles. I remember that starting to happen and that just going like, we're doing this for the earth. Yeah um and it's only been, you know, in the past sort of little while that it has become politicized. And because I'm, you know, um an artist, like I spend time with mostly left-wing people, so I don't really meet a lot of people for whom it's like a hoax or anything like that, but it's um it definitely feels sadly political because we waste time debating something that is seems pretty clear. Yeah. So, you know, something that I sort of am confused by. It's like, well, the Earth over her you know, millions and billions of years has shown us that the climate does shift. And so I don't know how much to believe whether or not it is the carbon emissions, but I I do know that it is changing. It has to be changing. It's it's it's happening before our very eyes. And that would be something you would know so much more about, but well, one point on that is that like um it's true that so people like to talk about greenhouse gas emissions, right? That's one of the things driving the changes. And we have pretty good understanding of how much and how little greenhouse gas has been in the atmosphere over all those millions of years. And it's true, the Earth has been way hotter in the past and way colder in the past, and so sometimes hoax-type people will be like, oh, the climate's always changing. Who are we to say? And you know, it just goes up and down, we can't control it. But the big difference is every human being you've ever even conceived of in your mind, every human being has been has grown up and lived and evolved in a certain period of history. And we're changed in a certain climate condition, and we're changing that. So it's like we know the earth has been fine, right? But the question is, will we be fine if we change the conditions around us? So, in your scientific opinion, were it not for us, this would be happening at a slower pace or not at all? This would not be happening the way it is now. Right. And there'd be large climate changes on the scale of like tens and hundreds of millions of years. But not like that changing. But not there's this famous hockey stick graph. Right. It's the thing that shows emissions going up and temperature going up, and it's called hockey stick because it goes steady. Exactly. I think it was developed actually by a British person, I think he named it. I'm not really sure. Maybe field hockey. Maybe the pro the the curve is broader. I know. To them, field hockey is hockey. Yeah, too. Either way, it's going up. But yeah, it's that's the thing that shows, like, hey, this is the normal background, and all of a sudden things have gone like so that's what you circle and be like, what was that? Oh, it's when we discovered fossil fuels and started burning them. Yeah. Okay, so that's how we know. And isn't it interesting that it's politicized, right? Like, isn't it interesting that certainly people more on the right end of the spectrum think what do they think the left is trying to accomplish in making up uh uh a climate change? Like, how would that be? Because if we do that, then the then you know the gays can marry animals. Like, what what do we what do they think we're trying to do here? They think that the left is maniacally focused on ruining people's lives. At the expense of capitalism? Specifically by dismantling capitalist systems. But there's a really pithy phrase that people say that I've heard uh the left wants us to have warm beer and cold showers. It's such a perfect line. They want to take away all the fun things in life and get rid of them in the name of some kind of sanctimonious environmental bullshit. I think that's what that the right, the sort of right critique is. But there's there's two. One is climate change is happening from the right. I'm like parrot, you know, these are, I think, coherent opinions on the right. Climate change is happening, humans caused it, but it's an unfortunate reality of modern life. And the trade-off of having things like airplanes and heating indoors is worth it. So it's unfortunate that some islands are gonna sink, and it's unfortunate that there are gonna be more tornadoes, but it's just something we have to deal with, and the trade-off's worth it. And we'll deal with it with capitalism, the technology that capitalism can create. Well, usually those folks never speak about that, usually those folks never speak about how to deal with it. Capitalism is an idea. It's like, you know, it's like the same way a lot of people think about homelessness this way. Look at that person who looks like they're unhoused. That's unfortunate, but this is just the reality of city life. There's nothing you can do about it. Right. Other people look at that situation and say, first, do we agree that that's not right the way things should be? And second, wait, maybe we maybe there is something we can do about it. I think the coherent debate is what to do about it and can we do something about it. The incoherent side is like, it's not happening, it's a hoax, it's a globalist money redistribution, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's where I think it's like, okay, you're you've lost it, we're getting nuts. Yeah, cut to some kids sitting on the banks of the Rito with their skates on and their skates are getting wet. And they're like, yeah, globalism, I guess. I'm totally okay with the person that says, your ideas for how to fix this problem are not the right ideas. Right. Great. I just want to agree that a thing's happening and it's probably not good. And we're the ones doing it. And we're doing it, and it's getting slowly worse. Yeah. Actually, faster and faster getting worse, right? Yes, yes, yes, exponentially. If we can get to that place, then I feel like great, let's have a long fight about what to do. Let's not fight about is this green or is this red? Yeah, it does feel like we're wasting uh precious time here. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I my hope and dream is that in the same way I see comedy helping us deal with a lot of other tense issues in our society, race relations, politics, gender identity, poverty. Maybe comedy can help people just can't take the edge off of climate, also help people kind of connect and understand it better and form their own opinions. Yeah. Before we get into that, I want to know like, how do you do comedy? Talk to me a little bit about the process of writing or preparing for performing. Like, what's a regular process like for you as you're developing ideas and putting them into practice? Yeah. Well, I came up through uh doing improv. So um I think when people think about comedy, they quite often think about stand-up, which is an art form that I love and admire and I just haven't done. I'm a really collaborative person. Um, I'm quite playful, so improv is the literally the perfect art form for me. Um so I think the first thing in comedy, much like any art form, is you have to find your voice. You have to figure out who you are as a comedian, who you are as a comedic person versus who someone else is and how that's great that you are different than that person, right? Um it's it's you know, like any other art form, there's there's just a lot of ways of doing it. So I think that's the first part. So I think improv really allowed me to figure that out because uh the response of live comedy is truly immediate. It's the most immediate thing. It's quantifiable, as a matter of fact, right? There is a laugh or there isn't. There is a hard laugh or there isn't, there is a chuckle or there isn't, or sometimes there just isn't. And that's and that's fine. And also accepting failure. So it starts with that for me, and then that sort of tells you that oh, my comedic instincts are good. Um I get laughs more than I don't. The more I do this, the more laughs I get, i.e., the more of the, you know, beyond 10,000 hours you put in, um, the better you get at it. And then so after that, it becomes uh just, I think the first question is, do I think this is funny? Do I think this is funny? Does this make me laugh? That's a really, really good place to start. And working with people like other improvisers who are just so funny and compliment re me really well, and you can, you know, create a really scene, great scene with different perspectives. Yeah. Um, but that's sort of where I start is do I think this is funny? And I think the way to learn whether or not you think something is funny is to try it out in front of an in front of an audience. And I worked at the second city for a long time. And that's the way that we create there is we just try our improvised premises out in front of an audience, and sometimes it has legs and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the audience is laughing, and we're like, great, we have something here. This could be a scene that we could put in our next show. Got it. And sometimes you realize the second time you try it, they weren't laying laughing at the improvised element of it. They were laughing at the surprise, not at the premise, right? So it's like we we call it second night blues. You're like, oh, this is actually nothing. Okay. Um sometimes you try it again, and sometimes it works again. You're like, we got something here. Um so I have done most of my work live in front of an audience. And then after a while, you just learn that, you know, your instincts are pretty good. And so right now I'm writing, whereas at Second City, you create we created sketch live in front of an audience that we would eventually hone down into a nice tight sketch. Yep. Rarely things were written on paper. Now my job is I work um for a Canadian uh news satirical show called This Hour Has 22 Minutes. Love it. And I'm putting my sketches directly on paper, writing them on Tuesday, maybe they're gonna get produced on Thursday. So it has to be tighter and better and fast. It has to be tighter, better, faster. And uh that's when I'm going, I just have to trust that this joke works. Um, and you know, much like you'll hear about in the SNL sort of read, like sometimes your sketch will sing and sometimes it's alive and you know it's getting a million laughs, and sometimes you have to listen to the crickets who are um sitting on your page while they're reading it out loud. And you know, and it never gets easier, it get you get more used to it, but it never gets like it never feels better than it did when you were younger and you were like, well, everyone in this room hates me. Okay, so I want to ask you a couple more, I wanna dig into the process a little bit. Remember, I'm the aspiring, like, I would like to pitch a funny climate premise. Six months from now. Okay. Yeah. So you said you do writing on Tuesday, let's say if you're working on this hour. Yeah. Writing on Tuesday, what happens after that? And specifically, you talked about finding your own voice, finding your own instinct, but also being collaborative and getting instant feedback. So, like after you write a sketch, let's say on a Tuesday, what happens? And specifically, when and how do other opinions get to weigh in on it or collaborate through with the rest of its journey? Yeah. You just map that out? Yeah, we write it on a Tuesday. Um, I'm sort of expected to be part of like three sketches. Our team of 12 write about 50 sketches. Okay. Um every week uh that we're put in production. And um there are on Wednesday morning about 50 sketches that are to be considered, which will get whittled down to 25, which will get read out loud. That decision is made by our showrunner usually and our head writer who just go like, is this relevant this week? Is this what we need? Is this funny? I mean, sometimes, you know, I'm like, are they even reading them? But that's just my ego. Because I'm like, that's the best thing that's ever been written. How is it not being read out loud? Um, very much a killing your darlings in the sense of like, you know, you write a piece and you're like, God, this is tight. This says some, oh, not even gonna get read out loud, huh? Wow, wow, not even gonna get heard. Okay, so it's every week, it's just, but Second City really taught me the process of going, this isn't working, you have to drop it. It's okay, there's a no show um next in six months, whereas at the show I work on now, there's a new show next week. Yeah. Um, and so 25 get read aloud, of which um six will be uh produced. Okay. And so uh, and then the arbiters of that taste are the crew who sit in the room and listen. Um our head writer, our showrunner, um, the gentleman who owns our show. Um, I think just people who think, what do we need? Because you know, our mandate is satirical uh news, so we it should be relevant. Sometimes something that's more evergreen. By evergreen, I mean it will be funny, hopefully in a year from now. Hopefully, not 20. Hopefully, you know, social things have changed by then. Um, but yeah, so uh so then it'll get whittled down to six uh that are chosen, and uh those get made, those get played in front of an audience uh on Monday when we do the live portion of our show. Um, and the audience will be laughing or not. And so I rarely see all six sketches make the show on Monday. Sometimes something is evergreen enough to um to get played maybe three weeks from now. They can save it for when they need a sketch. Um, but that's sort of the process. And then there's a there's maybe an hour or two to do rewrites on Wednesday if your if your sketch gets chosen, you can you can um fix those jokes. But also if you know if something did well in the read, you don't want to you don't want to mess with it too much, you know. Like um better isn't always you know the enemy better's the enemy of good quite often. So it's all very disposable, it's all very immediate. Yes. Um, and which I'm used to immediate because of improv. I'm used to like instant, we're done. Uh, you know, it's sort of it existed now, it doesn't. Yeah. Um, but yeah, that's the current job that I have. That's the current job that I have right now, and that's how that works. Okay, cool. Um, just one last process question. I'm really interested in, I see a lot of comedians coming up on places like Instagram Reels or TikTok. Yeah. Short form video. Yeah. And I'm also like vaguely aware that a lot of at least some of the US late night talk shows, from what I can tell, I don't know what the ratings are like, but they seem like vehicles for YouTube clips now. So my question is does the expansion of formats, let's say new social media clips or people using different medium, does that has that changed the way that you work at all? Or is it just kind of something else? It's a new addition to the universe. I think it depends. I think what I mean, like the sketches that I write can end up on those platforms, and like if they do well, that's really cool. But does that influence your process, the fact that it could end up on the street? It doesn't because I don't write for that. I have to, I have to write for the show. But I know it is for many people. Like I know many people create for those platforms. Okay. Their rhythms, their cadence, um, their ways of looking at things are specifically designed for TikTok and or Instagram or YouTube. Um, I know people that have self-produced their more long-form stand-up specials and put them on YouTube and been very successful with them, and that's a great way to get those out. But I mean, yeah, I don't know. I I don't know if people watch the entire tonight show anymore. It's usually just in the viral clips, and that's just I think where we are now. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. I've been living in the Pacific time, so it's funny to see these late night shows, uh, whether they're from this country or the other one. It's like, oh, it's eight o'clock Pacific. Yeah. Like civilized, you know, I can go to bed early, like an old person. That's nice. Uh it is nice in some ways. Um okay, so do the themes of climate ever come up? Let's say at this hour. You shared an anecdote with me at some point, I forget when we were chatting a few months ago. But like you talked about various reviewers. I'm just interested in this idea that, like, is it is anyone forcing any particular theme or issue into the writing beyond your own creative and comedic instincts? And would climate be one of those things or environmental stuff or anything like that? Has that ever been part of the flow? Very much. Specifically at our show, they have a very large environmental mandate. I don't know. Mandate from great question. I think, I I think it's partially just the um the people that our producers think it's very important. I I don't know if there's a funding element that comes with uh being environmentally responsible. There may very well be, and that would make perfect sense. Um, but we have been pushed really hard to include environmental like topics in our writing. And it's just, it's so sorry, even the idea of being that what you just said, to be as fun. And try being in a room of, as a comedy writer, try being in a room of comedic writers going, uh-huh, trying to figure it out. And so their suggestions, and you know, I never ever expect people who aren't comedy writers to be comedy writers, but when they suggest things like put a reusable water bottle on the table and or have a have a reduced, reuse, recycle sign in the back in the background. Like a comedian's instinct is never to go, great idea, what a wonderful suggestion. Our instinct is to go, how can I fuck with that? Like, how can I so you know, like writing into the sketch like a massive recyclable, you know, but but nobody in the room thinks it's not worthwhile. We just find it's hard to, it's it's it's hard to make funny. We were asked to, I think, I think probably for a funding reason, um do this program out of Britain that you might be aware of. It's called Albert. Oh yeah. And it's for creatives to, it's like a class that creatives take to learn about how you can put uh environmental issues into your work. And it's things as subtle as like someone, I don't know, someone mentioning climate change or truly just having a reusable water bottle. Like so it's making sure that the environment and climate change are so part of culture that they are in our work too deliberately. You know, it's just hard not to feel, it's hard not to laugh at that as a comedy person, and it's hard not to feel cynical. And it's I feel like what our solution could be is, you know, pressing record on the TV camera and go, are you kidding, BP? Like, are you kidding? Are you fucking kidding me, XL? Like, you know, like just speaking truth to power, you know, with a, you know, with a really sharp scalpel. Um, but that doesn't seem to be what what we do. And I don't know what you think, but I feel like people are a bit like, I get it. Yes, okay, fine, climate change. Like it's hard to it's hard to make it funny, funny, funny. I think. It's I'm I I struggle with that because it's dark and it's sad and it's existential. And if comedy is tragedy plus time, it doesn't feel like there's uh an epilogue and we close the book and we can give it a bit of time, and then we can go, what was funny about what was funny about that? How can we have perspective on that, right? Okay, okay. Because it's ongoing. I'm understanding this now. When you said comedy is tragedy plus time, you know, of course my nerd brain fired up. I'm like, an equation, I don't understand this. But what I thought you meant was I was about to say that you just described climate perfectly because it's an unfolding, slow-moving train wreck, right? And we see how we understand what a train wreck is, and we kind of see where it's going, but it's going slow. Yeah, in my equation, maybe time is perspective. That's okay. Um, okay, but look, tragedy plus time, let's stick with that. Yeah. You said, you're not really sure if it's funny, and I'm really glad you said that, because I really want to dig into that. But I see comedians dealing with all kinds of hard shit that I don't think is funny. I don't think racism is funny, I don't think transgender hate's funny, I don't think most political issues are funny, I don't think war is funny, I don't think being destitute or poor is funny, I don't think being stupid is funny. Yeah. I can think of jokes that I've heard other people tell or perform where I'm busting a gut laughing. So is it true that comedy is really good at adapting to hard things? And do you deal with those in your news sketch show? But also, if it's true that comedy is good at adapting to hard things, why does climate feel a little different? Does it? Or am I off base? You know what I'm getting at? I do. You know, racism isn't funny. Um, making fun of the transgender community isn't funny, but you know when it is funny? When someone who is afflicted by racism is talking about it, when a trans person is going, This is this is my story. Yes, yes, um that's when I think it's funny because it's probably really specific. Okay. Um, it's probably really like specificity is for me a huge part of comedy. Like, you know, Chardonnay is funnier than white wine. I don't know why, it's just true. So I think you know, um you have that. Um and I I don't know. I don't know why. I mean, I I I haven't seen a lot of like stand-up or material on climate change. Um I mean, neither. And it's hard to have a personal story about it. Look, if someone was like, looked, I I lived in this village on an island and now that village doesn't exist. I think that's a different, I think that might work. Here's one of the funniests. Personalizing it might work better than a big picture of that. That's my instinct too. That's my instinct too. I have a few items I'm gonna throw at you later and be like, is there any ha humor in this premise or whatever? And listen, also comedy's subjective, right? Like to your point, you know, I don't know if you know this, but the racist stuff that you're not laughing at, there's some people laughing a little too hard. What I mean is yes, I mentioned that. Like, and and and if it's if someone is laughing, who's to say that isn't comedy? Might not be your own. I think what you said about like it's that the perspective is important, like, you know, the cheap white people be like, black people be like, that type of joke. Yeah. I first became aware of that from watching like Deaf Comedy Jam, which is like a black comedy situation, and then became a TV show. So it was specifically black comedians talking about white, black racism in the United States. It wasn't somebody speaking generally about racism. That would make me fall asleep or feel like, okay, I'm having those feelings about I don't like this general thing. Right. But I wanted to pick up on something else that you you said about like it's it's sort of hard to force it in and uh other difficult issues coming up in comedy. I the funniest thing I mentioned this pitch competition I went to and I'd like to go to again. Yeah. Most of the pitches sucked with apologies to the people that were there. I didn't think they were funny at all, but there was one that was really hilarious, and it was a very personal specific premise. I think this woman was a TV writer, I think. Yeah. And she pitched a office sitcom. I I wish I could remember her name. I'm I want to give full character her concept. I hope she develops it. Office sitcom-based comedy. It was set in a city called Heat, so like that was just funny. And the central character was an office manager who's going through menopause, and she's always hot. And I was sort of giggling at that premise. And I don't I forget even what she pitched after that. But it was not a grand, let's solve big problems, let's think about saving the planet, blah, blah, blah. It was just a lady in some office is too hot. And it maybe it seemed like it'd be a recurring gag that like it's a little warm around here and she's having a hot flash or something. I don't know. But for me, that was funny and just I could connect it to normal life. Finding the universal and the specific is nothing new. It's I think it's I think it's how I think that's exactly how we should be making comedy, specifically like um character-based narrative comedy, right? Like you wanna you wanna be exploring large themes with very small things, but yeah, I think it's like, you know, it's also like what's your point of view, right? I think probably if you're a comedian, well, maybe not so much anymore, but like your point of view is that probably that climate change is bad and that something needs to be done about it. You know, like there have been sketches on our show, like a guy who doesn't know what coat to wear, and the weather report is changing every second, and this guy's like, you know, thing, you know, huge huge um parka spring jacket, and it's like that's like, you know, chortle, like true, like that's you know, that's happening. But yeah, like this, you know, not just that we're scared, but like, what specifically are we scared of, or what is specifically are we inspired by, or like what specifically are we are we are we mad at? Like it's wild that when I see a plastic straw, and I was at a bar yesterday and I got a plastic straw and I was like, this feels political. This feels like a fuck you. Well, it's like distills the whole issue into this little token that we can all hold. It's also a two cent object, so everybody has access to it. And it also is much nicer to drink out of a plastic straw. It's significantly nicer. And it's significantly nicer. I don't want to, you know, it's not a little bit more. This is why paper straws are such a problem. I understand the plastic pollution is a problem. We can't make the green solutions worse than what we already have. This is a dead loser, right? Aren't they doing shit with corn, Marcus? Can't they give me a straw made of corn? Yes. They did it with cutlery. Yeah, they did it with cutlery. I have done the experiment at home and then never followed it through because I lost patience. You know, you get like a corn straw at home? No, no, no. I took the corn cutlery I got from that sustainability conference that says it's compostable. I'm like, this place looks fucking plastic to me. Yeah. I'm chipping my tooth on this corn plastic straw or whatever it is, cornstarch. And then it says it'll decompose, and I've tried, like, I may stick it in a planter, and then I lose interest after three weeks and don't follow through. But it's not a good thing. Even if I am like mildly, I don't know, skeptical about this kind of stuff. Okay, look, you said um, well, I made this grandiose statement that I think comedy maybe can help people relate to this topic, and comedy's great at helping us process, us regular people process harder things. Um do comedians or artists have a responsibility? You said comedians like probably people you know probably think climate's happening and it's probably bad and we should probably do something about it. Yeah. Do artists have a responsibility to do it? Do the producers or owners of your show that might say, hey, try to work in a reusable bottle? Are they thinking we have a responsibility to do this because we're doing the right thing? Or do you think it comes from another instinct? But do you ever feel that sense of responsibility that you should do a thing when you're in your creative process? No, I don't think, I don't think I should do anything. I don't think any any artist should do anything. I think they should just make the art that is true for them and then people like us at lands. We need people like you to help us connect to these hard topics. Why can't you throw us a bone? If it's authentic, if that's what I want to contribute. If I want to contribute something that's got like a strong point of view and it's my point of view, and that's the reason I want to make art, or that's the reason I want to contribute it, or I want to hold the mirror up to a society, then great, if that's what I want to do. Um, but trust me, I don't think you want the art coming from people who are told they have to, they have to have a point of view and they have to have responsibility. I think it's called school. Like, I don't think you're gonna want to watch that. So it's not gonna rise to the top and it's not gonna do do anything. So um, and ultimately, like, look, I you know, there there's all kinds of people, and I think I think I think it is a social responsibility to provide laughter. I think it's a social responsibility to provide levity. That's interesting. I do, I do. I think it has to exist. I think it's not just something that's nice to have. You think it's something we need. I I I do, I do, you know, and I think it's been through um all civilization that, you know, you want to go to the Coliseum and watch a guy get um mauled by a lion. I mean, ha ha ha, it wasn't that so delightful. I don't want to admit to wanting to watch lion mauling, but I I I know what you mean. Like I agree it's something that we need. You might have done it then. You might have you might have gone. I say things like music is my medicine, if I'm feeling pretentious. Because like I can't live without music. I need that. And I don't want to live in a world without music and do you need socially responsible music? Well, no, and like I can relate to this as an amateur musician and like the idea of like I I understand the people to do this. Like folk movements and protest songs, like that's important shit. If it comes authentically. And if not, also great. But yeah. That's fine, I'm gonna fit into that shape. But people need to laugh. People absolutely need to laugh. Because there's way too much to cry about. Well, look, that's like a perfect segue into why I want to figure out how we can use comedy to help us laugh at this situation that in other contexts might think us, make us cry. Do you worry though that like in laughing at something it um uh diminishes its importance? Yes. I'm terrified of this. I had anxiety about that, like, even before this conversation. Yeah. If I am like a you know, professional climate person with a capital C, if I even engage in the subject of like, is this shit actually funny? Like, can we just laugh at the fact that we take jets to climate climate? Like, is that funny kind of? I think it's a little funny. Can we laugh? Even if it's serious. Hypocrisy is funny. Hypocrisy is funny. And it's also you have to point it out. But the thing is, there's so much, and I, you know, I don't want to be respectful, disrespectful to a lot of colleagues, but there's so much scolding about language when we talk about climate. And I'm just wondering, could comedy help us just like. But Marcus, haven't you found that when you scold people and correct their language, they're so much more likely to do the thing they should be doing? I find it just draws people to me, actually. This is the modality that scientists are locked into, right? Because scientists, you value truth above everything, and data and experiment is supposed to be a path to get us to truth. So it's literally the scientists' nightmare to realize, and this is a sociological fact that's been shown. When you show people more and more data about climate, it just makes them pull back further and further. Well, they don't understand it, it makes them feel dumb. It makes them turn, you become numb, it makes them feel dumb. It makes feel like mummies yelling at them. And then you change the channel. And then you change the channel. Let's just focus on something. Yeah, so I actually think this is a look, somehow the message has to get across. And I do feel very strongly that when people are laughing, they are so much more open. Uh-huh. Like energetically, emotionally. When you get them laughing, you disarm them. Yes. They don't feel scolded. Yes. Um, especially if that laughter is coming from a place where there might be a bit of self-deprecation coming from you. Or like you are on stage sort of lowering yourself as well, going, I fucking use plastic straws and I love them, you know? And I don't know what to do about that. Then someone's like, ha ha ha, she's me. I'm gonna listen a little more. Exactly. And then, you know, if you can find a way in that's nuanced and that's, you know, gentle and hopefully funny, yeah. I think that's a really great way of getting a message to somebody, be it climate change, be it politics, be it um, you know, patriarchy, whatever you're trying to comment on. It's I'm much more likely to tune in if I'm laughing than if someone screams, I gotta change the channel. I'll I'll change the podcast. That's the end of episode one of my conversation with Ashley Botting. I personally learned a ton about how she does that thing she does, how she makes comedy, how writing works, and how her world actually functions. Now, the conversation actually continues into a part two where we really drilled into the climate and comedy piece. I pitch her on a few comedic premises, she tells us, in her professional opinion, if they're funny or not. We talk about Tesla a little bit, and I know it's hard to believe, we actually solve climate change by the end of the episode. You're not gonna want to miss it. Thank you to my producer, Vit. Here is the great music of Claire Davis to take us out.