Hatten Health Podcast Episode 8 with guest Michelle Heberling

Hatten Health Podcast Episode 8 with special guest Michelle Heberling.
In this episode we speak with professional fermentation educator and a beekeeper who challenges the modern narrative around gut health. Michelle is the author of The Guts of Fermentation. 20+ years working with bees and living ecosystems.

Real-world fermentation, not trend-based wellness language.

Clear, high-engagement conversations built on grounded science and lived experience.

She doesn’t teach trends. She teaches how food is supposed to work.
Get to know her and soak up this wealth of knowledge to help and possibly save you and your family's life.
Links below. Thanx for watching!

Michelle Heberling website:
https://www.thegutsoffermentation.com

Hatten Health:
Website:
https://www.hattenhealth.com
Hatten Health Recipe Club App: app.hattenhealth.com
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Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hattenhealth
TikTok: @hattenhealth
YouTube:  @HattenHealth  
Email: hello@hattenhealth.com 

You can also catch the video version of this episode on Youtube.

We are Hatten Health
Family. Health. Growth. Empowerment.
Let's make it happen, together!

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:07

Welcome, welcome, welcome, everybody, to another episode of the Hatton Health Podcast. This is episode eight, and we are we are so excited today because we have another very special guest joining us today with a ton of great, great information for you. Lots of knowledge, good stories. And as always, here at Hatton Health Podcast, here at Hatton Health, we love to focus on family, health, growth, and empowerment. So let's make it happen together. Cheers and cheers to you, the listener, and cheers to our special guest. Would you like to tell the people who our special guest is today?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Today we have Michelle Hieberling. She is author of the Deads of Fermation Fermentation Book. And we'll leave it there and let you introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Well, thank you, you guys, for inviting me to come and join you in this podcast. I'm super excited about it. Thank you for joining us. What?

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Oh, yes, yes. I think we've got some parallels, which I think is going to be really fun to talk through. Um, but just a real quick who am I? Um I as you said, my name is Michelle. I grew up in Oklahoma. I am turning 60 this year. And why I tell you that, yeah, I made it, um, is I've watched our food system completely change from everybody growing their own vegetables to process food. And I have made it my mission, even before I wrote the book. My mission was always um, I would I did catering and um I always wanted people to say, so where did you get this? Why does this taste so good? And I could say, I grew it, or I could say at the farmer's market, or I'd say from a farm stand. And I know I know my farmers by first name basis, and I think it's very critical to bring back real food, whole food. And so in doing that, I wrote a book called The Guts of Fermentation, and it's all about the entire ecosystem of our food, from where it's starting in the ground all the way to the end where we ingest it and we feed our gut and we feel better because of it. So that's quick.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Oh, yeah. This is uh this is one of those topics that we love to just nerd out on all the time. We do our own research, we talk about it with between ourselves a lot. We talk about it with our friends, people that know us, and other guests that we've had on past episodes. It's just it's a hot topic that doesn't get talked about enough.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Yeah. And I think, yeah, more there is a movement, I feel like, that's happening now. More people are starting to become aware and realize how awful our food system is. And so there's people like you, or we've had an episode um with Jeff Bragg, who um very similar conversations with him about how we need to know our farmers, know where we're getting our produce, things like that. So it's great that um people are starting to become aware. And there are people like you who are sharing that information and getting it out there to everybody to realize they need to wake up and realize what's going on.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Well, and it's important for you guys because you are what, millennials? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Oh, this is great because you guys are going, hey, wait a minute, what did you guys do to our country? What is happening to our food systems? And you guys are asking the right questions, whereas the baby boomers and Generation X just kind of did. And um, I'm sorry, we did not set you guys up for success on not ingesting plastics and the whole gamut of what we've done to the food system. And I feel a responsibility towards that, which is why I wrote the book.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah, like we're learning now that a lot of illnesses that um people are experiencing and getting are coming from the things that we eat before we saw external things coming into us, like things we touched or different, just being irresping irresponsible, but it's just not knowing what we thought was being innocent, just eating regular food. And it's things that we grew up on thinking it was okay, not realizing until it was too late. And part of what we do is the preventative side, preventative care, preventative um health measures, and a lot of that starts with the food in the home and getting it to the home.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Well, and I think with your generation, so much of it came from convenience, right? Yes, technology, and so everybody was really focused on how can we get things better and quicker and faster, then focusing on convenience. And I think now we're realizing that convenience, there's there's there's a cost with that.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

There's a huge cost to that.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

I think now we're realizing oh, all the fast food, all of this stuff is actually not great after all.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

There's maybe a little more scarcity back then, too. So then came mass production. How can we mass produce things at a cheaper cost and make more of certain things? And that became a little bit of a detriment because then you got the a lot of synthetic things being made, um, a lot of things, things, fake things and chemicals being added to the natural foods and whole foods to make them bigger or colorful or to make more when that isn't always as helpful. Yes, it makes more value and it produces more faster, but that's really unhealthy.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

Yeah, yeah. It really is, and you really hit on it. So if you think about um now, when you look at farmland, you see uh columbines actually tilling our soil. And one thing I talk about in my book is um when you till the soil, you kill the microorganisms in it. And um we can increase our soil with our microorganisms by harvesting microorganisms through the forest or through the woods and bringing that back to your land. And it's actually very simple to do. And by not tilling, by hoeing instead of tilling, you don't kill them. And then the land becomes more fruitful because the microorganisms are doing their job. But if you are tilling and you are using inputs that you buy at the store, like compost, it's already dead before it gets to your land. Uh, you buy all the inputs that corporate America thinks we need to put on our soil, we're killing anything that's in there. So, you know, it really starts at the microorganism side. And here's something really fun. To capture indigenous microorganisms, all you do is cook some rice, stick it in a basket, take it outside to the woods, or in I prefer the forest, find some mycelium that's growing, which is just threads, white threads on the ground. That's the threads for mushrooms, set your rice on top of it, cover it up with some leaves, leave it for five days, and you've just harvested indigenous microorganisms that you can take back to your house, you can shelf stabilize it by mixing it with sugar, and then it's one part microorganisms to 1,000 parts water.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

And I kid you not, within three days, you look under a microscope on that soil and you will start seeing life form again. It's that fast. Wow. Very, very simple. Yeah. And nobody knows this.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

And this is I definitely didn't know it, anything like that. That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yeah, and it's fun, it's such a great activity to do with kids because um, yeah, they see our land. You can show them what it looks like with the soil, and the goal is to get stuff moving around and then and then put the put the um we call it IMO1 and IMO2, which you'll understand it when you read my book. But um, you put that in the land and then come back three days later, take another sample, and you can see the changes.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

That's amazing. So how did you discover this? Or how how did you Okay?

SPEAKER_02 9:10

I have been a land steward for all my life. Started in Oklahoma, moved to California. I did technology, I got busy about 10 years of that time, but other than that, I've always been a land steward and I've learned. I'm always asking those questions. Well, how did you get this? Why doesn't this strawberry give me a stain on my fingers? What happened to the strawberries that used to give stains on your fingers? Or um how did you how do you take care of your vegetables? That's another big question to ask because you know, food allergies. When I was a little girl, we didn't have food allergies. And even I have a food allergy. You want to hear something crazy?

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:01

Okay. I have a tomato allergy, and it is my left foot. And when I eat a tomato from the grocery store or from a restaurant, my the bottom of my foot flares up and it gets out and it drives me crazy. What?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Is it kind of like a gout flare up?

SPEAKER_02 10:24

It's not a gout, it's just it's a rash. And then if I stop eating tomatoes for three months, it completely clears up. Now, if I eat a tomato from the garden, it doesn't happen. So, what does that tell you? That tells you the chemicals are placing on our food. Even if you buy organic in a grocery store, you're still experiencing it because they may say there's no pesticides on the vegetable, but what did they put in the ground before they grew that tomato?

SPEAKER_01 10:56

Right. Organic, yeah, it doesn't always mean what you think it means.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Exactly. Yeah. It's fascinating how when you do a deep dive on this, it can mean you think it's one thing. And then people, as a caterer, I would have, oh, I can't have nightshakes, or oh, I'm gluten-free. But you know, if you eat bread from Italy, you don't have the same issues that you do in the US. And it's because they take care of their produce, their products so much better than we do. And I don't like chemicals.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

I know some people from celiac disease and they're able to eat bread products, wheat products in Europe, but not here.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

I've heard those stories before too.

SPEAKER_02 11:39

Yes, it's so true. Well, um, you know, when we export to Europe, they have a whole list of rules we have to follow so that they will purchase our products. Right. But we don't follow the same guidelines.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_04 11:57

Yeah, they don't want us bringing our American chemicals into their country as cleaner food, but we allowed a lot more things banned than the US. Did you ever find out what chemical that was that was on those tomatoes that was causing those flare-ups and why one foot and the left foot about things? Did you ever dive into that?

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Or my gosh, that's a beautiful question. And no, we have not determined what it is. All I know is that if I don't eat a store-bought tomato, you know, I don't eat store-bought ketchup, I don't eat a tomato from a restaurant, that I will not get it. And I know if I like have spaghetti sauce from somewhere and my foot and my foot starts itching within six hours, and it's maddening. It's like, oh my gosh, I can't stand this. But if I eat it, you know, from tomatoes that I grew, there's no problem. You'd almost think it's mental, but it's not. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:58

Do you ever um eat out at any restaurants? Or do you like to scout certain ones? And well, I know you know what restaurants are in your area because you live there. But when you move there, did you have to like scout and research certain restaurants to go to if you were to plan on going out to eat one day, or do you just cut out restaurants all together?

SPEAKER_02 13:16

I cut out tomatoes. Anything with tomatoes, I do not eat out. I don't need it at a friend's house because I can't afford for my foot to flare up because it is not a comfortable situation. So I just or I bring my own tomato sauce. I have done that.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

And it's just tomatoes, it's no other produce that you've noticed.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

So far, no, it's just tomatoes. But that makes you wonder how are they processing those tomatoes and food tolerances as a whole? How many people have these food tolerances because of the way the food was processed?

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Sure, they may not put chemicals on them, but what are they washing the tomatoes in? Or what are they putting in the soil? Or um how are they storing those tomatoes? Why are all the tomatoes always so pretty at the grocery store?

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

It's because they genetically modify the tomato to make it absolutely perfect, because that's what they think we need.

SPEAKER_04 14:16

That's what sells.

SPEAKER_02 14:17

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

So it all comes down to the dollar, you know. What can they do? Like, because you know a lot of people who see the ones that's displayed where they're actually supposed to be and naturally are, you know, that's that's not as attractive to a lot of people that are. Exactly. You know, it's not aesthetically apple to those that don't know any better, those that aren't looking for the right ones. Like we've gone to stores, um, natural stores, natural groceries things, stores like that. We've seen the odd shaped or the discourse a little bit. That's not a bad thing. That's actually what it's supposed to look like. Whereas some places you go all perfect, perfectly uniform. Like that's not always how they come out the ground. So it's good to be.

SPEAKER_02 15:01

And how do they taste? They taste like cardboard. There's no flavor either. Yeah, it's it's fascinating to me what's happened to our food over the course of these years. And and you know, if you look at it, you know, I'm part of that gener. Well, I'm Generation X and quite proud of it. But the baby boomers were part of the the uh TV generation, where TVs were introduced and then TV dinners were introduced, right? And then they put plastic on top of the TV dinners that were frozen that they then put in a microwave. So it's like this whole cycle of we've lost, we've lost what a real food tastes like and looks like. I uh my son is 20, and in kindergarten, I would take vegetables to the school and have the kids call out what they were. They always knew what a tomato was, but that's about it. Wow. And that tells you where our society is on knowledge with vegetables. So, of course, I would grow a garden and we would eat the foods from the garden, and everyone got very excited about that.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

But back when we used to have time to watch TV a lot, I used to watch a show called Foods That Made in America a lot, which is a show that I love. Yep, and they had a whole episode on what you just talked about with the boomer area with the TVs being introduced, the TV dinners being introduced, and how those TV dinners were created and how they evolved to the way that we see um frozen, pre pre-frozen, pre-packaged dinners now. They did a whole story about that, and it reminded me of that. And just before that, when you were talking about the vegetables, the difference. The reason like a lot of people, even as kids, didn't like vegetables or avoided vegetables or turned their nose up at a vegetarian diet because they're so used to eating the kind that came from the store. There's certain stores that had they thought they were all waxy tasting, or they didn't have flavor or they tasted bland, it's because they've just been tampered with so much before they got to the store that lost a lot of the natural appeal and the flavor and texture. And I feel like if a lot of us were introduced to those in the purest form when we were young or even as adults, we'd probably enjoy them more, probably appreciate them a lot more instead of like waiting until you're old and start having ailments or wanting to try a new diet or try to get healthy, you would have we would have done it earlier, and then by the time we get to our 30s, 40s, like now, it would have been just commonplace, like regular, and we would have avoided a lot of those um illnesses or ailments. The thing is that we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

I agree. Yeah, I agree 100%. You know, one thing I used to do is I'd have play dates, and all the kids would come to my house, and for dessert, I'd give them frozen peas. And the mothers were just beside themselves that I would give all the kids frozen peas. Why are you giving Mike? And I'm like, it's good, and I would give it to them, and they were like, This is really good. I had no idea.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Sometimes we get our garden to eat certain vegetables or things that she would otherwise be like, no, it's uh oh, it's sweet. Oh, it's sweet, like it bites like candy, but it's good for you, it's very fresh. And she would try it or one of our books that we read to her a night. I think it's called Thank You Farm or Something Farm. Yeah, each page is like sample, thank you, Rain, for sweet peas, or thank you, cow for yummy milk, different things like that on each page. Beautiful. So when we have certain things for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. If she's hesitant to eat it, we'll say, Oh, it's just like your book. Then we're like, Thank you, son, for orange carrots or whatever the page was.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Thank you, Soyel for cringe carrots.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

There you go, yeah. And she's like, Okay, most of the time, you know. So there's that.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

I'm so glad you're doing that. And I love that book. And you should probably link that book and this podcast so people can go.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

That's the really simple book. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, a friend gave it to gifted it to her for her first birthday.

SPEAKER_04 19:10

Um, harvest all this stuff, so it's it's getting them started, teaching them about where food comes from. It doesn't come from the storic, it comes from somewhere else. First grows from the earth. So thank you, Earth.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

I love it. And you know, um, I did experience as a cater one of my favorite things to do was to go off grid and bring food to a group of people, and we'd be there for four days, sometimes six, but most of the time it was four days. And because you're off grid and you don't have a true kitchen, and you've got to bring it all in. I only brought food, mostly my food was fermented, which our ancestors, that's all they that's how they preserve their food, was fermenting it. And so people would arrive in these off-grid retreats. That's really what it was, was a retreat, and they would be stressed and frantic and just you know, they couldn't get comfortable. They're in the woods, you know, massive redwood trees and the ocean, you could hear, and they're like and I did fermented foods for every meal, and I watched everybody's body, and I've done this many times, transform because they started eating what their gut needed. Because when you eat processed food, those bad microbes in your body are thriving, they thrive with the bad food.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And yeah, and um when you give it like this right here, my mocktail is June. Have you ever heard of June?

SPEAKER_04 21:12

No, I haven't known.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

June is a sister to kombucha, but June is made with green tea and honey. I'm also a beekeeper. So I make June all the time. It's very floral, very light, very bubbly, very delicious. And um so I would do these foods and I would build up, I would start off very simple because you can't um you can't have like something really strong that's fermented, or it's gonna double everyone over. And and truly, when you eat fermented food, it's like a tablespoon, a teaspoon to a tablespoon. It's not a cup of food that's Fermented, so I would start everybody, you know, and the colors are gorgeous too, but I would start everyone with little bits and add it to the foods. And you know, there's nothing like fermented veggies in a burrito or uh drinking a miso soup with the miso that you just made from carrots or you know, garbanzo beans or soybeans, and so you build it up, and everybody starts feeling better. They sleep better, their gut is happier, um, their poops are amazing. They're like, why am I having such an amazing poop? And yeah, and I've got a whole section on pooping in my book because it's such a taboo topic, but it's so natural. And it's the most important thing you can be aware of to tell what your health of your body is.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot in your feces that talk a lot about you or your physical state, everything.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And I, I mean, especially after having a child, I thought, yeah, I study her bowel movements and I keep track of them and just realize, okay, especially with different life changes and stuff like that. Like we went through with our move and definitely started eating a lot more processed foods than she's ever had in her life through this move. And her constipation was terrible, and her poop, like it, yeah, it was bad. But then when she started getting more normal, I was like, yes! Okay, and what did I get?

SPEAKER_04 23:43

I never paid attention to bowels until like uh I got a job working um for the region cruise line, but before then, you gotta go through so many steps before you get actually start working there. And one of those is health screens, and part of one of the health screenings they do is the study your bowels, like you gotta do it in um some kind of container, and then you do something to it, you stir it with this little thing, it's like this little beer on there, you send it off to them, and then they test it for this, this, this, this, and this list of things, and they send you back the results. Then you do the same thing with the urine tests. You have to keep it in storage 24 hours and all that. It's not a pleasant story to talk about, but something that you have to do back then. I don't know if there's things are the same measures now. This is back in 2003, four. But after reading about things, the information they sent me on that, ever since then, I always kind of pay attention to battles a little more than I did before, based off of what I eat or ate that day, drank, um, what I may be feeling emotionally, um, my exercise routine during whatever moment in my life I am at at that current time. And yeah, as you get a lot of information out of that just from just seeing it, knowing what to look for, what not to look for. And that's just not including medical tests that doctors and stuff do. It's yeah, it's one of those subjects that's not always fun to talk about, but good to know about.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

I mean, think about it. If everybody started just checking, are you floating? What color are you? Are you stinky? All of that is knowledge for us to talk about our gut. And and that is super important. So if you think about it, if you went to your doctor, look, this is what I've had for two weeks. Now they've got some real data because right now, when you reach, I think 50, you they send you like a poop test to test for colon cancer, but it's once a year, and it's very, very do you have cancer? That's it. Or do you have the traces of what cancer would be? And that's all you but if you can go to them with like two weeks of or even four weeks of your bowel movements, that gives them more information than they could ever get from a poop test. Well, yeah, yeah. And I and I'm hoping, I'm trying to, I haven't done it yet, but I'm trying to introduce um uh uh what did I call it? I had a name for it. The poop chart or the the poop game. I don't remember what I called it, but I wanted to introduce it to kids in school and have them draw pictures of their poop because and no school yet has been open to that.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

We are selling that to a school.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Can you imagine? But just think, um, I wanted to give them beets. So maybe they could take it home and the parents could do it with that.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

Yeah, they do it in private, maybe they'll probably be more on board with it.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

Yeah, maybe. But that but you know, here's a day where you're gonna eat beets, and then how long does it take for those beets to get through your body? Oh my god, I've got red poop, right? Well, it's the beets you ate. That's how long it took to get all the way through your body. And I think that if we start at a young age introducing that this is okay, that then when we're adults, we're not gonna be so weird about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

Yeah, and it's easier to we'll be more mature about too if they have to talk about it to a professional or just anybody that may be experiencing some situations.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

But you're exactly right, no one talks about that, like growing up, even in like health classes, stuff like that. Like, no one really talks about it.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

Like, yeah, I actually know the embarrassment, people making jokes. It's like, no, this is serious if you present it in a serious professional way.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

But and I have an entire chapter on poop, and my my editor was absolutely beside herself on the fact that I called it poop, not bow movement. I was like, no, and I have cute little pictures of the Bristol chart, which is an ugly chart made, I don't know, back in the 30s, and it had, you know, here are the pictures and here are the numbers. So I had my artist friend make a pretty poop chart to put in my book, and I actually have all these questions you ask to log everything about what that movement was like, and you experienced. And um, I think that that is that's the direction we need to go because we have too many people are sick. And a lot of times they don't find out until it's too late. And then you'll be amazed at if you take an antibiotic, how that changes your bowel movements, or when you uh go out and drink one night. You know, it takes three solid days to re so basically when you drink alcohol and you think, oh my gosh, I've got a headache, and um, I'm dehydrated, you're really not dehydrated. What you've done is you've killed your microorganisms in your in your gut. It takes three days for those microorganisms to come back. And that's what's gonna have help you and make you feel better. But if you do that, if you go out on a binge or whatever, drink a bunch, have a hangover, look at your look at what comes out, because whatever goes in is gonna come out and and just see the damage that you're doing to our intestines. I mean, we have an amazing engine if we treat it properly. Right. Yeah. But you know, if we don't, then the bad stuff is gonna keep growing. But if we do, the bad stuff goes away and the good stuff grows. Yeah, this is all new. This was not able to be identified. Uh when I say new, it's like the last 10 years. We finally have a way to look at the microorganisms under a microscope, both in the soil and in your gut. And it's bringing about it's a whole new industry, and they're trying to figure out how to make it work. And you'll see a lot of people talk about supplements. And I don't talk about supplements, I talk about eat real food to make you feel better. You know, put turmeric in your sauerkraut, and that will help with inflammation. You know, do fermented mushrooms, not the funny kind. I'm talking culinary mushrooms, but eat those. I ferment them, and that helps with brain clarity. There's so many ways to make your body do what it needs to do just by going back to the basics of our ancestry.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

That's great. Yeah, I don't know. Like you mentioned, a lot of supplements too, they're they can't get through your stomach, right? So that's where the eating natural foods, fermented foods, because they're able to pass that gut, that stomach acid, and into your small intestines versus a lot of supplements just get dissolved in the stomach acid and are in pass to your intestines.

SPEAKER_02 31:21

Yeah, yeah, they say there's actually data on that. Um, only like three percent of that supplement even gets ingested in your body. Yeah, the rest is just so think about how many supplements you would have to take versus eating spinach, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Yep. You know, save a lot, yeah. It's a lot of money on the train. Yeah, toilet, rather.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:49

So you got you, um, let's talk about beekeeping. You have over 20 years' experience as a beekeeper.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

I do.

SPEAKER_04 31:55

What got you into that? And like what's been your journey long journey doing that?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Oh my gosh, my journey has been lifelong of natural resources, you know, growing my gardens, having my compost, what's the next basic step? You know, bees went through a time when we almost lost them, and I didn't want to lose our bees, so I became a beekeeper. Now, back when I became a beekeeper, there was only about 2,000 beekeepers across the United States. Now there's over 2 million. So we've done an extra, but it's not all good. We've gone from the, you know, first of all, honey bees are not native to the United States. Did you guys know that?

SPEAKER_01 32:46

I did not know that.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Well, I didn't know until recently. I have a friend who's a beekeeper, and she posted about that like sometime last year before that. I didn't know that at all.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

Yeah, they're not native to the United States. So uh it's great that we're helping our our bees, but we've gone to the extreme. Now you've got all these beekeepers, and what happens is now um our native bees, our cute little carpenter bees and bumblebees, are dying because the European German bees are now taking over. The Russian bees are taking over the United States, and so like I'm happy to put bees in somebody's property, but if I do that, they have to do a bee house for the native bees. That's kind of the criteria I have. Um, how did I get into it? I got into it because um I've been uh all about fermentation all my life, and who knows how to do fermenting perfectly? Who knows it better than bees? Bees are all about fermentation, and um I I love them. I love how they can take, I might be feeling anxious, and I can go sit with my bees and it calms me down. To I love to capture swarms and I capture a swarm, and this sounds very weird, but when I capture a swarm, I do it without a suit on, and I can feel the energy go through my body. Um it reminds me of the Matrix and how you know green pill, red pill, or blue pill, red pill, and how you can see this light go through your body. I truly believe that that happens to me, and I know it so much that that I can wake up after handling the bees. Now they have a very high frequency when they're in their swarming. Um they're swarming, they're at a very high frequency level, and so that helps with healing anyway. But when I wake up after managing a swarm, I have no pain in my body for two solid weeks.

SPEAKER_04 35:09

Well, living things carry energy, so you got that transference of energy when you go out there and sit with them and meditate, meditate with them. It brings you that that calming uh peace that you may have to get from other people or maybe other plants during during that time.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Something about that frequency. Do you know what that frequency is? Like, do you have a number?

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Yes, it's 457 megahertz. Okay, interesting. When they're in their normal, when they're in the hive, it's about 220.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

I haven't seen that labeled on any frequency chart. I mean, I see all the charts with the colors of frequencies and the numbers that go along with them and what those different colors represent for us when you hear them calming, relaxing, and where they're being massaged or just meditating. But I've never seen it related to bees before. I've never seen anybody put it that way before. So that's very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Oh, good. I'm glad you liked it.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 36:03

Yeah, I set mine up so that I can so kids can come over, homeschooled kids can come over, and I've got this big pool netting around my aporary, so they can get really close because the guard bees have to go all the way up to 10 feet and out if they feel threatened. And then where do they go? Because they're supposed to be guarding the hive, so so kids can get really close to the hive and not get stunned. It's a neat experience.

SPEAKER_04 36:31

Brown noise, white noise, blue noise, gray noise, bee noise. B noise.

SPEAKER_02 36:36

I like it. Yes, yes. So um, I do. I do a lot of fermenting with my honey. I don't just ferment June, which is the drink I showed you. I also ferment garlic. I ferment vegetables and fruits in honey because it is so pure. And everything bubbles and like garlic, it gets all it gets all watery, but um, it is medicine. If you have like a sore throat, you drink some of that honey or you eat one of those fermented garlics, it goes away really fast.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

That's something I'm wanting to try is yeah, honey and garlic fermenting.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

I haven't done it yet, but I'm wanting to know if this is true or not, or how how accurate it is. I've seen different reels here and there about uh how you one of the ways you can tell a difference between real and fake honey, one burns and one doesn't burn. Um, how accurate is that? Is that true?

SPEAKER_02 37:35

No, okay. That's a wife's tail. Just like eat local honey and it'll get rid of your allergies. That's also a wives tail.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Um, there are healing elements in honey, but it has nothing to do with um allergies. It has everything to do with your sinuses and you know any mucus you have and and the healing properties of that. So it does ease, but any honey would do that as long as it was natural. Now, how do you know real honey from fake honey? Um I personally, I I can tell based on color and smell, but it's because I've been around it for so long. For somebody that doesn't know honey, I would get to know a local beekeeper. And um, one thing that I do is um, and I actually have a product I'm rolling out, which I wasn't gonna talk about, but since we're talking about honey, yeah, go talk about it. Yeah, I have a mini frame that you pull your frames out of a hive, and I built a stand and I have a glass dome over it so people can have an actual hive in their house, no bees. This is after the honey's capped, so that they can eat off the honeycomb. I'm a true believer that you don't eat strained honey, all the nutrients are in the beeswax, the pollen, the propolis, the bee bread, all the things that the bees use within the honeycomb that is so healing. I don't truly believe that that the honey that's strained gives you those nutrients. I mean, I haven't looked under a microscope. I guess I should, but to me, it's very telling when you see pollen in pollen state in honeycomb, how much better that is for you versus strained honey. Because when you strain it, all those goodies, I get to keep. I'm not passing it on to you guys.

SPEAKER_04 39:44

So there is that for a swarm to produce honey.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

Well, a swarm has to build their home before they could ever produce honey. So if you take a bee box, depending on the time of the year, you could get one frame of honey created in one day if it's flowing because thousands of bees hit that one frame. It has to already have the beeswax on it, right? I mean, so if it doesn't have any beeswax on it, then they've got to spend a week building the beeswax, and then they fill it within days, is so fast, but then in the uh closer to the fall, there's not as much pollen, so it takes them longer because they've got to gather more. So it's all the accuracy.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Yeah. Well, that's amazing that you can that you've built the dome and you can have that ready to go in your house because yeah, it's hard to find.

SPEAKER_02 40:47

Yeah, or I know it's not in existence right now.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Nobody has or I mean, like I've seen now where you can buy like honeycomb in the grocery store, but it's in a little plastic container.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

And I'm like, is that really yeah, that's that's what they have. But I think as soon as I launch mine, probably within 18 months, people will be copying me because I have to build the frames first, right? Then they have to source the glass domes and source how the stands are held up. So I'll send you guys the picture so you can see it. It's beautiful, absolutely gorgeous. Great, and I'm very excited about it. Um, okay, so tell me, because I know that we're talking all about fermentation and food health and uh poop, obviously. You guys do are you doing meal prep meal delivery or are you building menus and then people use your menus?

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Yeah, so we we do recipes. We yeah, we don't actually like do meal prep kits, um, but we are building meal plans, we are building recipes. Um and we have an app now called Hot Mealth Recipe Club app, where all the recipes are on there. And then you can generate meal plans and stuff like that based on if you have any food allergies or uh nutrition preferences, things like that, you can really customize it as well. Um, but kind of our signature program is called Family Time, where we have an online course that parents can enroll in, and it's really targeted for parents with toddlers. So starting off with the basics, getting their them and their kids on the right foot foot as far as nutrition. Umri has a whole module on like cooking hacks, how to meal print meal plan and cook efficiently for your families and healthily. Efficiently.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

That's the that's the big word right there.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, and so most of our recipes, we try to get keep them around 30 minutes or so. Majority, some of them are a little bit longer. But most of the time we're trying to do quick, easy recipes that are still nutritious, that don't have the process shortcuts.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Grocery store psychology, how to navigate in the grocery store, what to look for, what to look out for. Um, just uh tools and tips and tricks, how to smart, shop smarter.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

Yeah, and we talk a lot about mindful eating, um, adding that component too is really big for families. That's so important.

SPEAKER_02 43:20

People have forgotten your generation doesn't know how to cook because my generation didn't cook for their kids. I mean, I would cook and people would be like, why does this taste so good? And I'm like, it's natural, it's whole foods. Yeah, and I'm not I don't consider myself a Michelin star chef, but my food always tastes fantastic because it's real whole food. And if you do whole food and you know those farmers, you know where your food's coming from, you're gonna have an amazing meal.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, we're not like picky eating experts, but we touch about You know how to get your kids involved in the kitchen, how to cooking, how to go to the grocery store with your kids and educate them on where food comes from. And that's the whole philosophy on how to limit picky eating is to really experience because so many kids all they eat is from a box, or the food just shows up.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Dino, dino nuggets or something.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah. So um just starting kids young, educating them in that way so they know where the food's coming from, how it's sourced, and making those healthy habits as well.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

I think that is so important. You're getting them more interested in eating and enjoying eating with the family, eating what's put in front of them rather than being picky, or or the way I grew up was like you eat this or else. That was it, cut and dry. Exactly. Exactly. That was it. And you don't get the table until done. So sometimes you have to power through it. Well, we're trying to teach the other way, not the power through it, not the quote-unquote gentle parenting, but meeting halfway. So they enjoy it, they look forward to it, and they're curious about something they haven't had before rather than just push it away right away, but actually be curious about it because they had a hand in the shopping part or the farming part or the and or the cooking, the prep. They have that every step of the process along the way. So at times when it's time to sit down, it smells good. They appreciate it more, they want it more. That's and we're not child psychologists or anything like that. We're speaking from life experience.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

No, I think that's fantastic. And I truly believe if you've got picky eaters, if you show them the process, they're now vested. They're interested, like you said, and they want to see it go all the way through. Kids are sponges, man. They want to learn. But if you just open it out of the freezer and throw it on the plate, like my son, my son is an amazing eater. Um, and I don't take this as I did this, but he's 6'5 and and in the most beautiful shape ever. But he used to, as a toddler, he would sit in the garden and just eat the vegetables off the plant, right? And people would be like, Oh my god, that's not even washed yet. But like it's totally fine. A little dirt's not gonna hurt him. But by having him showing him how to do the food, that makes him make better choices and that makes it so he's comfortable with it.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

You know, I used to garden with my grandmother's house a lot when I was a kid, and um, I used to do that with the tomatoes. I used to eat the tomatoes, first of all, the vine. And for the longest time, I didn't like green tomatoes, especially because I grew up on a lot of southern cuisine, so she used to fry green tomatoes, and I didn't like those. But when I started, I tried a couple of green tomatoes straight without frying them. I'm like, this isn't that bad, it's actually pretty good. And yeah, over time I still didn't like fry green, which is probably a good thing, but I did like to eat green tomatoes, just fresh, straight green tomatoes, which I still would like to to this day because of that. Because I tried them without the fry, without frying them. I tried them fresh and straight, and then she told me about how to rinse them properly and all that. But that's even that though, it was just a life lesson that I learned early on.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

Absolutely. You know, one thing my book talks a lot about. Um, I have, oh my gosh, I had it as its own section, and then I decided to incorporate it through the book. Part of that whole editing aspect of learning was on ancestry foods. And I only have four recipes that are from the United States. They're all from different countries all over the world, and the stories around them, and the best stories are the ones with your with your grandparents when you're with your family and you're building and making mistakes, and it becomes part of the family unit. And we have gotten so far away, so far removed from making food an important part of our day-to-like day life. That I mean, my kid at 20, uh, last year he came in and goes, Mom, you have no idea how many people just open stuff out of the freezer. And then you, which I thought was weird because I made everything. Uh, now I'm very grateful because I know what real food tastes like. But I mean, they would just pull it out of the freezer and eat it.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

I it wasn't a lot of kids. I mean, that's how I mostly grew up was like on freezer meals and takeout because I wasn't home for dinner for most of my childhood because everyone was dancing and I was at the studio until 9:30 at night. Or um, we were just running around my mom. I mean, we cooked, we cooked, and my grandma cooked a lot, but um, if it we came, you know, we cook for holidays and stuff like that. But majority of the time it was just like quick, easy, you know.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

And that's okay. But if you guys are, I don't know if you're incorporating this because I didn't hear it, but that doesn't mean you're not incorporating. Meal prep can be so good for you, and you could just take one day out of the week and do meal prep and then freeze everything you've made, and you've got nutritious food at your fingertips.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Yeah, that's what we yeah, we focus on for sure, and trying to focus on that. And that's also why I'm motivated to help our daughter with that too, and other kids and other families, because I didn't have those skills or I didn't learn that growing up. And so learning that as an adult is harder, but trying to start off on the right path, on the right front, making those um quick, easy, healthy choices growing up.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

There's nothing. I mean, this is the coolest thing ever. You have people that show up and you're like, oh, what am I gonna do for dinner? I open my freezer and I've got my food already labeled in there and what I have that I've made, you know, to preserve. And then I throw in some needles or whatever it is that I'm mixing with the sauce. I always do the sauces. I'm big in always making my sauces ahead of time. So I have an assortment of yumminess that I then just incorporate into whatever it is I'm making. And people are like, I looked in your refrigerator, you didn't have this.

SPEAKER_04 50:29

Yeah, the sauces is one of those things that are time consuming. You try to do it every day and use a bunch of ingredients and you're making a mess, it's just becomes stressful. So you freeze them ahead of time. I've seen hackers in ice shoe trays, make portion, portion control that ways, a lot of other different ways you can do that. And it's one of those things that we push in our weekly meal plans. Things like when you you batch prep a bunch of stuff, a certain item, you can freeze the rest of it, and they can thaw it out quickly. Then two days later or three days later, whatever, and you can end up with multiple items. So certain days we don't have time to cook, you could just whip up your meal pretty fast, just thaw it out really fast. And what you just said explains that. That's why we do do that. Because like Abby said a mentioning a minute ago, um, trying to learn these things as an adult isn't as easy as just like anything else you would learn as a kid, you absorb it more and you get a head start. Whereas trying to learn as an adult, you're trying to break old habits, um, you're getting out of your way of something you've done for years. So we want we try to put it to people, give it to people in the simplest, easiest way for the easiest way possible that they can learn it and implement it into their daily life. Because we one of our target um, I won't say audience, but people that we cater to mostly is busy parents. We're busy parents who are speaking from first-hand knowledge, but we go to anybody, all parents, but busy parents we talk to a lot because we feel like we're living that now. We want to help everybody, but we have our core base.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

I love it. You know, I was uh um, oh gosh, I would say 30 years ago, I was writing a book and I never finished it. It was called Go Organic, Not Broke. And I think it's a lot of what you guys are doing. Um, and it's just putting processes in place. Like one of my big things was make your bread and a bread maker at night. Go to bed, let it make it. You know, it's an easy task that can happen. Freeze your sauces or whatever it is that you want to do, make it and then freeze it. But try to see how many meals you can get out of whatever that those ingredients that you're combining so that you are saving time. And I truly believe I save a ton of time by doing meal prep. And there's nothing like my 20-year-old who devours more food than uh than a dozen kids to combine. Um, I'm hungry, and I'm just okay, here you go. And it feels really good. And I know that I'm giving him the best nutritional food I possibly can because he's still growing. He's only 20. He doesn't want to get any taller, but yeah, he is he's still got a few years of growing for sure.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Oh, that's an amazing testament to you and all that you've all your work you've done in raising him.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

I would love to, yeah, I would love to take credit, but I don't know if I can. I just may have lucked out because he's just a great eater. You know what one thing, and I meant to say this earlier, one thing that um I strongly believe, and um this goes back to what you were saying earlier about um eating the same food as you. Um I he has never had a kid's meal. My kid has never had a kid's meal. My I always hosted exchange students. They've never had kids' meal. And I had my brother-in-law and sister came out to visit and they had two kids, and those each kid had their own meal that they were eating. And I'm like, she goes, We were buying some ingredients. She goes, Well, what is Wesley gonna eat? And I'm like, What do you mean, was what is Wesley gonna eat? Well, what's he gonna eat, Michelle? I said, he's gonna eat what I'm eating, and I said, I don't have time to do extra meals, right? And oh my god, your dogs are so cute.

SPEAKER_04 54:39

That could be that could be a part of the show.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Of course. I get to see the face. Yeah. I saw that one too, but it just kept going.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

I saw your cat a little bit ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

Oh, you did? You saw my cat? Oh, that's funny. Um, so I think that there's something to be said for having your kids not eat the kids' meal. Because the kids' mill is fake food.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

Yeah, everything you see menu is going to a restaurant.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yeah. I mean, you can always take the leftovers home. And then you've got lunch for the next day. I mean, that's a bonus.

SPEAKER_01 55:29

Yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

So yeah. I just wanted to say that really quickly because I feel very strongly about um how important it is that everybody eat as a family and eat the food that you're making.

SPEAKER_03 55:45

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

I know some kids are picky, but I think that they're picky because you let them be picky.

SPEAKER_03 55:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:52

I mean, they're not going to starve. And if you include them in the process, then it's togetherness. They're with you, and it becomes memories. And who knows, they may find that they absolutely love something because they watched you and helped you make it.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

And that you said exactly what we all are all about. You summarized that so well. That's exactly what we're all about. I love it. And exposure too. And you know, I think we are so closed-mine that we and so conditioned that as parents that kids only like cheese and fried chicken and all that stuff. That's all they'll eat, is because what that's what we're conditioned to. And if it just takes exposure and time to expose our kids to different foods, and you just never know. Like, I had one friend who's also in our course, and she's like, I don't know why I never thought about this, but Mike, I happen to have a grapefruit, and I was like, Well, I don't think he'll like it, but I'll try it. And her son gobbled it up, and she's like, I don't know why I thought he wouldn't like it. Like, yeah, I'm glad I did give it to him, but I think we're just so much in our head, too. And it's it is, it is in her head.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

Gotta take a chance and just go for it. Because just because you didn't like it doesn't mean your child doesn't like it. You might be might be surprised. And yeah, growing up, taste buds might change or preferences might change, but you start out. And they do, they do, you're so right on that.

SPEAKER_01 57:21

Yeah, and it takes it to take a kid up to 20 times of trying something before they actually will like something. And like you said, their taste buds are constantly changing.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

Yeah, and what are their parents' reaction to it? Do they eat broccoli or do they hate it? Because if they hate it, their kids are gonna hate it.

SPEAKER_01 57:39

Right. And so, and I think that's where we give up is we just try one time, kid says no, and then you stop making it because you're like, oh my kid doesn't like it. I'm gonna stop buying it. I mean, and we've witnessed that what already with our daughter, she's gonna be like, yeah. I mean, she did that with eggs, right? All of a sudden she went cold turkey and eggs, but we just kept giving them to her, even if she didn't eat them.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

So the yogurt was like that. It's like back to mic and you get in here.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

It's gonna be one day where all of a sudden they're like, they'll try it and say, I love it again.

SPEAKER_02 58:13

And so I think it's yeah, my kid, my kid, um, we have chickens, and um he was so excited to go and bring the eggs in every day. He just happened to show up with one of the chickens was laying an egg. And that made him not want to eat eggs for a while. I was really bummed, but he's back to eating eggs again. But if you can imagine, I don't even think, I think I was an adult before I saw a chicken lay an egg. And he was just like, Yeah, I did, I did not, I don't want to eat eggs ever again. They pooped their eggs. It was funny.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

Wow, I grew up with chickens, and yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's kind of funky, kind of weird, especially when you're not expecting it, or if you don't know, that's why it happens. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:02

Man, I I am learning so much today. Like, this is a brain fool. I am learning learning so much, and I'm sure you are too. And I'm sure our listeners and viewer viewers are also. We want to thank you for that. Before we get out of here, um, before we let you go, you want to let the viewers and listeners know where they can learn more, also, like your social media. Yes. Where you can find your book, if you have an audio book, yes, let us all know about all that. You can you're gonna go. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Okay, so my book is the Guts of Fermentation, and you can actually pre-order it or just keep it and then come back to it, theguts of fermentation.com. I also have classes that teach you how to do fermentation on there as well. But um, I send you a box of the supplies you need with a list of the items to go buy at the grocery store or the farm stand. And um I found that people don't ferment because they don't know what supplies they need. So I actually send you a box of all of that each month. We start off simple, and by 12 months, you're then fermenting miso, which is a the best treasure on the planet to have if you make it yourself. And um, it's very fun to see everybody go through the process and how much they love it. And then you're drinking June or kombucha or uh kefir. There are there's so many different options you can get. So I hope you guys will look at my look at my book, pre-order it. Oh, there's also a two-week Gutsy reset on there for free. You can download the Gutsy Reset, and that's a way of getting your gut back in check by following seven easy steps.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:00

Thank you. So excited to check that out.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:03

Yes, this is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Yes. Um, before we sign off, what would you recommend to busy parents who are wanting to start with fermentation? Like, what's the first basic step? What would you recommend?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:17

Sign up for my class, my monthly subscription. If you didn't want to do that and you just wanted to, uh the first is just sauerkraut, you will save so much money. You know, I have a cost comparison. You buy uh cabbage and you make coleslaw, and you buy cabbage and you make sauerkraut. The coleslaw, let's say the cabbage costs five dollars. You can get about 20 servings of coleslaw, but it goes bad within three days, becomes complete slime. You can get 120 servings of uh sauerkraut because you only need one teaspoon to one tablespoon a day. And I suggest you have ferments three times a day, and um it'll last up to a year. So talk about saving money and time and being able to put a little juju into whatever it is that you're making with a little sauerkraut, you'll be in heaven. But you know, um, I have over 127 recipes of fermented foods that you can hit and try out.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:26

So you just answered a question that I was going to ask you about um your what would you what would you say to any uh busy parents who are concerned about um spending a lot of money on eating healthier or fermentation, like how a lot of people say, well, eating healthier is more expensive or too expensive. It's really not, and it's really definitely really not in the long run. But um, there's definitely a lot of easy ways to go about eating healthier, buying healthier products, and uh buying healthier ingredients without spending a lot more money. Maybe some things, some some cases you may spend a little bit more, but not a lot, and definitely of investment towards your health. So you already answered that. Thank you for that. You hit it right on the head.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

I I think that um we talked on it a little bit earlier. Preserve it. When you buy whatever it is, fresh vegetables that you buy, what are you gonna cook right that moment? If you're not gonna cook that right that moment, freeze it or process it. It could be ferment it, it could be can it, it could be stick it in the freezer and just freeze it. Do something with it because what you don't want and where it becomes expensive is when it goes bad in the refrigerator because you never got to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

So I think getting so so, like somebody showed up yesterday with a massive box of basil. What do you think I did?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:52

Fermented it.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:54

I made pesto. I made a huge vat of pesto. You cover it up with olive oil so it doesn't go bad, and it can sit in my refrigerator forever, forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:04

Oh nice. I didn't know you didn't. I don't make it all meet pesto. But I didn't know you could put olive oil in this.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

Yes, as long as you don't have any green showing anywhere. You have to make sure it's completely clean. And then when you go into it, of course, if it's in the refrigerator, the oil is gonna harden. You get some of the oil with it, which is totally fine. Top it with a little more olive oil and you put it back in. But that's what I did, and I have a huge, massive jar of pesto. And I didn't have I didn't have uh pine nuts for it. So I put what did I put in it? I never do the same thing. Um, what did I put in for crunch? Oh, I put sunflower seeds.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:50

Okay. I never used that before either. I made lots of pesto over my life, whether it be at my job or at home. Never thought about um sunflower seeds. I love sunflower seeds.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

I make a lot of different types of pesto. Uh walnuts are really good in pesto, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:06

So you know, are you just gonna have a crunch? What is the crunch that's gonna take the place of the pine nuts? And you know, you gotta you gotta make sure you got your combo salty.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:16

Something too too, like outside the flavor profile of a pine nut.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

Say that again.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:23

Nothing too outside the flavor profile of a pine nut.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

Right, it's gotta be like cash with my works, it has a little bit of sweetness to it, a little bit of butterness to it. It's um not too hard, it's soft, it still has that little snap to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for all of this. I know you have buckets of more information and experience to teach from what you have in the course and the book and all that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:47

So yeah, yeah. This may need to be a multi-part series, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:53

Definitely, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, well, thank you everyone. I really appreciate your time. I love chatting with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

Thank you. Oh my time, cheers too. Michelle with your June. Yes, my June.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:13

And cheers to you, the listener, also, and cheers to your health. Like we always say, for one, I want to say thank you for listening and watching another episode of the Hatton Health Podcast. We are here with Michelle. Make sure we pronounce your last name correctly. It's Hebering or Hebering. How do we say it?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:32

Heberling, it's true.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Okay, yeah, Michelle Heberling has been an awesome, awesome guest today. And here at Hatton Health, as always, we are all about family, health, growth, and empowerment. So let's make it happen. Together.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Together. Yay.