Meghan Musk | Fort Wayne Country Club

In this episode of "The Teacher and The Pro," Host Nathan Rarick interviews Meghan Musk, the First Assistant Golf Professional at Fort Wayne Country Club.

They discuss her path into the PGA of America and daily life as a golf pro, especially in the winter months now that she's moved from Texas to Indiana. They talk about the pros and cons of being a PGA Professional, especially after the golf booms seen since Covid.

Meghan shares a great piece of advice to aspiring PGA Professionals and ends with what it’s like preparing for and working at tournaments like the Valero Texas Open and Chevron Championship.

"The Teacher and the Pro" is a Fairway to Green podcast. You can see all episodes at www.fairwaytogreen.com.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to The Teacher and the Pro, where we dive into PJ professionals' journeys and the paths they've chosen within the golf industry. I'm Nathan Rarrick, an elementary P teacher and golf array for Fair to Green, an equitable sports media company. Joining us this episode is Megan Musk, a leading assistant golf professional at Fort Wayne Country Club. Megan shares about her journey becoming a PJ professional and talks about what it's like to work at a golf course that hosts an LPJ tour event. Thank you, Megan, for joining us for this conversation, May. And kind of the whole point of this conversation is kind of learn more about what a PGA professional does from day to day, how to get to that point in your life, and other things that a normal golfer who may not understand what they all do, because from what I've heard, talking with all of them, they're they're pretty busy.

Meghan's Golf Origins

SPEAKER_00 0:48

But the first question I really want to ask you before we get into the PJ professional side is who or what got you into the game of golf?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah, well, thanks for having me. Um honored to be a guest on the podcast. But my dad is who got me into golf, which, if you ask most, at least female golf pros or pro golfers, it's usually our dad that get us into the game. But yeah, my dad got me into the game. I was about eight years old. He played with his buddies, and so he wanted something for us to do as a family. I'm an only child, something that we could get into as a family, and he would take us to this old like goat track of a driving range to hit balls. And I guess I showed some kind of natural talent and brought me into junior camps that summer, and the rest is kind of history.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Yeah, no, that yeah, that's really cool for me. Yeah, my dad wasn't the biggest golfer, I just kind of got into it with friends. But usually from what I've talked to, it's usually a family member that gets

From College to the PGA of America

SPEAKER_00 1:47

him into it now. Once you once you got that club in your hand, did you think, oh, I'm going to play professionally or I'm gonna make a career out of it, or was it just something you know, this is fun to do with my dad and my friends? Did you ever see yourself getting into the golf industry as a young kid?

SPEAKER_01 2:02

No, so it's funny, you know, they ask you when you're a kid what you want to be when you grow up. And I guess in third grade I said I wanted to be a pro golfer, but like I just put that down oh no, I actually was gonna go into the medical field. I wanted to be a surgeon. I played college golf, and that was always just gonna be the end of the road for me was college golf. And after my freshman year, I was actually pretty burned out and I was kind of ready to step away from the game, but gave it all four years. My senior year came around, and I was like, you know, I'm not not quite ready to give up the sport. Kind of put medical school on hold and pursued playing professionally. I played professionally for about three years from 15 through 17 were the three, four years that I played on tour, the mini tours, I should say. And then that kind of chapter of my life was ending, and I wasn't, I didn't want to go back to school. I didn't want to go into debt with medical school. I was already five years removed from college, had no interest in going back to school whatsoever. And kind of the natural progression and next step was, I guess, well, I guess I'll go into the golf industry. It's what I've always known. And I never gave it a second thought. At the time I was working at a golf course in Orlando, I was working in the back room. They were like, hey, like we can move you up to the pro shop. And he started in the PGA program. I was like, cool, that sounds great. And funny enough, I actually got a job back home in San Antonio, Texas at TPC San Antonio that just fell in my lap. And that's how I kind of entered that side of the golf industry and pursued pursued being a PGA pro.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

That's

PGA Pathways

SPEAKER_00 3:43

very cool. Now, when you say PGA program, I know there's there's schools, like I know Florida Golf Coast is a big one at the PGA school. So was it, did you go back to college or was it more so like what type of classes were you taking for it to get that certification?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

There's two pathways you can take to be a PGA pro. Like you said, you can go to university route. There's like 14 accredited universities, I believe, during a PGA of America. And actually, my alma mater, Sam Houston State, is one of those universities. But I just played on the golf team. Again, being a PGA pro was never in my career path at all. So, you know, you can go to university route where you graduate with your GBA, and then it's kind of like a minor in golf, if you will, but you graduate out to class A. Or you could do the self-taught route, which is what I did, where you do all the work, everything is on your own, self-paced, and then you go through seminars and coursework done by the PGA of America, but everything's on your own.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

So I I know I've talked to some other people at the PGA show and stuff, and all the extra things they have to do. I know there's all the professional development and all this stuff that you guys have to keep

Life at the Club

SPEAKER_00 4:57

up to date. Now, as a golf professional, what what does your day-to-day look like, right? Because I always hear things like, oh, it's super long hours. Like there could be a day where you're in the pro shop, like you said earlier, and then maybe there's one day where you're teaching more lessons. Like, yeah, so on a day-to-day basis, what what does your schedule look like?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Every day is different, but it's the same. And I know that doesn't make any sense, but like right now I'm up in Indiana where my course is still closed for the winter. We won't open till around April 1st. But in season, it just depends on the day. Tuesday, Thursdays are my ladies' league that I run. I'm essentially running mini golf tournaments, if you will, on Tuesday and Thursday mornings. Wednesdays are kind of our slowest day at the club. So that's just a normal daily activity, daily play by members, some guests. Sometimes I'm out on the first tee, greeting members and guests. I might be driving around the golf course in a cart, greeting them, checking on people, see how they're doing. Fridays and the weekends were our busiest days. That's a lot of just being out and about on the golf course. And then, yeah, lessons are sprinkled in there. You know, some days are busier than others with lessons. I never really had a day that I was like dedicated to my lesson. Some like Tuesday evenings, I had a lot of lessons. I did ran a ladies' clinic too. So each day was kind of the same, but like you see different members every day. So that's where like it's kind of different. But you know, you're essentially running a golf course. I'm the first assistant at my club, and but like my head pro leans on me a lot to like make sure the day-to-day operation is running smoothly.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, I mean, I I'm I'm from New York, so I'm in the same boat as you as where it's been snowing the last feels like six months here. Right. This this upcoming weekend, it's supposed to be 60 degrees, and people are like, Oh, you want to play golf? I'm like, what do you mean? The course is gonna be soaked,

Winter Golf Setup

SPEAKER_00 7:01

and right. So, like, I I guess like what is what does your the golf club do during the winter? You guys have I know the big craze now is simulators. Have you added simulators to your club? So it's a lot of indoor golf, I'd assume.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah, so we have, and I got that question a lot because I'm originally from Texas, where it's 12 months a year playing golf. You can essentially play golf 350 days a year down there, and yeah, up here in the Midwest, you know, things are closed. We had snow on the ground pretty much all winter. But like our pro shop is still open, so we still have to staff that where members will still kind of come in and buy things here and there. But we do have an indoor hitting academy that's got three bays that the members can use, and they're actually they've got garage doors, so the members can hit out into the range. They were hitting out like with snow on the ground, yeah. But we've got like we got foresight and we have flight scope, they're able to still see their numbers and they can essentially still play a golf course by hitting out into the range, and we got TV set up so they can see their ball flight and their numbers and everything. That keeps us pretty busy keeping that stocked and going down and greeting the members and still interacting with them. But I've been super fortunate where my boss kind of allowed me to take a lot of time off. I was able to travel a lot this winter. I was able to go home back to Texas. We went to the PGA show for a week, and then I was able to play an event down in Florida too. I've kind of been in and out of town, which I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. But yeah, we're we're still open, but like the golf

Playing and Burnout

SPEAKER_01 8:37

course is closed.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Now, I mean you mentioned playing. Like, how how much do you get to play yourself during the the summertime or the springtime? I mean, it I we write golf as a two, three, four hour commitments. I'm imagine it's hard to get out there, even if it is for nine holes on a weeknight. How much do you play for yourself? And when you play, is it still like as fun as it was like in college and as a kid, or is it now just like, oh man, I do this for work all the time? Do you still have that love, like that like competition love for it?

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Well, it's funny you say that. When I stepped away from competitive golf, I was completely burned out on it. I took my PAT to player ability test, which you have to take in order to enter the PGA program. Essentially, you have to achieve a target score over 36 holes. So I took that right away since I still kind of had a little bit of those competitive juices in me. And after that, I was like, I'm done. I am so burned out. I've played golf my entire life. Like, I just want to focus on my career. I probably took about a good five-year hiatus where I wouldn't say I didn't completely touch my clubs, but like I did not want to play golf. Like, and essentially what you said, like I do this for work. I just want to go home and like separate myself from that. And you know, every once in a while I'd get the edge to kind of go out there. When I worked down in Texas at Houston, I played in a couple team events within our southern Texas section. But again, I had no desire to play whatsoever. And as I was interviewing for my current job, you know, everyone's like, oh, well, do you want to play? Like, do you want to play at section events? And it's like, no, I don't. Like, I don't like to play. I just want to like be a golf pro. But my head pro at my current club, he was just so encouraging and so supportive that within like a couple weeks of me starting last year, he was like, I want you to win Indiana Women's Player the Year. And I was like, Yeah, okay, whatever. Like, I told you I don't want to play golf. And he just encouraged me to play in events. And, you know, I played in a couple, and it golf just became fun again. And I think through his just encouragement and support, and something that's really helped me as I've kind of been turned back into the competitive space, is yes, I'm competing again, but it's not for my job like it used to be. Like I can go out in June 95, and I still have to get up the next day and run my ladies' league, right? I still have a job at the end of the day, and so that's taken a lot of pressure off of it. One of our assistants and I, we were really good at going out. We would go out after work, even during the week, and we'd go play nine holes. And him and I, we had a match going all season long, and like we would keep up with it. And not to brag, I won like 16 and five, buffet, but you know, it's just little stuff like that, that it was just fun, and then golf just became fun again. And I think it was just the environment I'm in, and then also having this break in the winter too, where it's just like, okay, I can't play golf, so I can take a break right now. That's helped too. Where at the end of the season, I was like, all right, I'm ready to kind of put the clubs up for a little bit. But now with the weather kind of turning, I'm itching to get back out there. I think taking a step away from it and now coming back to it, I have a new appreciation for it. And I'm just I'm enjoying playing golf again, but I'm also enjoying my career as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

That's really cool. And yeah, it's always tough. Like I playing sports all growing up, and then I once you get to college and then kind of now out of college, I'm like, I write, I'm 30 years old, I can't go play a full 90-minute soccer game. So what do I do? I go, I I call my friend and go, okay, let's go play golf. And yeah, it's not the same, but like I'm I'm still trying to beat him, he's still trying to beat me. Yeah. And again, like you say, we tally it up, and it's like, oh, you won this this past month, and I won this, but like so it's something, and it's like with the handicap system and and all that. I think that's where the game of golf is has been great. And since this kind of golf boom after COVID has have you seen that working in the golf industry? Is that is the the golf boom real, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Oh my gosh, yes, it is so real. I was working at my first club in Houston when COVID hit, and a busy day for them wouldn't even break 100 rounds. And then COVID hit, and we were record-breaking rounds every single day. Like, I don't remember. I know when we hit 120 one day, we might have hit 150. And this was just an 18-hole private course in Houston, and now it's not uncommon for almost every club that I've been at since COVID. A hundred, 120 round day is not something to blink at. If it's under 100, it's a slow day, especially in a private club space. I can't necessarily speak for the public or resort side since the majority of my career, especially post-COVID, has been in the private world. But all these private clubs have wait lists now. And, you know, it's harder to get into private clubs and private clubs, like a lot of courses used to have not have tea times, and now they've been forced to go to tea times. And a lot of members complain that they can't even get a tea time. Members who have been members at clubs for a really long time have had a hard time adjusting to what do you mean I need to make a tea time now? I didn't have to in the past. And it's like, well, it's post-COVID. Like you have to make a tea time now. It the COVID boom is real.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

I mean, I I definitely see it just on the course. And now with with the boom, right? More people are getting into the industry. And I know I've had some people that I've seen that have left the industry

Pros and Cons of the PGA Professional Lifestyle

SPEAKER_00 14:30

as well. And what would what do you what would you say are some highs and lows of of being a PGA professional?

SPEAKER_01 14:37

I mean, you hear it all the time that we work long hours and we work weekends and holidays. And I knew that going in, and because that's something one of my first coaches used to say, and kind of the joke in the golf industry is if you don't want to play golf, then become a golf pro, because you know, we do work a lot, and that is a sacrifice we have to make, especially those who have families is yes, we're working weekends, weekends are our busiest time, and we work holidays too. I mean, especially down in Texas, like we had a Thanksgiving shotgun. The only days we were closed was Christmas. It's just a fact of the matter. I knew that going in, so it never really bothered me. But I know for a lot of people that's really hard, especially up here in the Midwest. You know, summertime is lake season. Yeah. And so not being able to go to your lake, go to the lake with your friends and family is hard. I think one good thing that's come out post-COVID is because the industry did lose a lot of assistance because the pay has notoriously not been great, is that it's starting to change. Work-life balance, it's becoming a real thing where we don't have to work 60, 80 hour weeks if we don't have to. During season, you know, I'm working 12, 14 hour days. My boss was amazing that he was still able to give us two days off last season, which is unheard of. But it wasn't uncommon down in Houston for me to work 14, 21 days straight in season, just what you do. But the pay disparity has gotten a lot better because a lot of assistants have left. And so the PG America has kind of had to look at itself and be like, okay, what can we do to get these young assistants to stay? So work-life balance has been a big thing where it's like, okay, do we really need to be here for these long hours, or can like I cut this guy to go home and have dinner at a decent time with his family? That has been probably one of the best things to come out of COVID is that flip.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

And I you mentioned it a couple of times now. So at a typical golf course, I know you said you worked at a lot of private clubs. How many professionals would you see at a course? You said there's a head pro and then you're the first assistant. Okay, how many other at your course now? How many pros are there?

SPEAKER_01 16:55

There are there's four of us. So me and the head pro, we're full PGA class A, and then we have kind of a second and a third assistant who are PGA associates, so they're in the program. It really just depends on the facility. Usually small private clubs like 18 whole facilities, or even like a public course, will have like a head pro or first assistant. It's an uncommon, maybe another assistant. Really high-end clubs, you might have a director of golf and head pro. My last club in Houston, we had two golf courses. So we had a director of golf, a head pro. There's two of us second assistants, and we have like 10 third assistants. So it just really depends on the size of your facility. But I would say on average, you at least have a head pro and at least two, maybe three assistants.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

I mean, uh, there's so much to do through the season, especially when you're like you're saying, two courses. I mean, that's adds more to it

Advice for Aspiring PGA Pros

SPEAKER_00 17:54

now. Yeah. If there is an aspiring PJ professional listening to this podcast, what what is one piece of advice that you would give them entering this field?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

I would just say be a sponge. Like, don't be afraid to ask questions. At least if you're on the private side and you see one of your bosses or managers working on a tournament, go in and sit in that office and watch them set up the golf tournament, see what they're doing, ask questions. We're running a golf tournament, just kind of be around and observe what we're doing. If we're giving lessons, ask, hey, can I sit in on your lesson so I can learn? That's probably the biggest thing. It's just a lot of being a golf pro. Yes, you can learn from the PGA, but every facility is different. And you can learn so much, especially from your head pros who have done it for so long, that just sit there, observe, watch what they do, and ask questions. Why are you doing this? Why'd you do that? I think that's the best way that you can learn is just immerse yourself into it.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

I mean, that's that I'm I'm a teacher right now, so I'm a school teacher, and that right now I have a student teacher, and he's asking me if I have a break, go watch another teacher. Like, don't just sit here and do it at nothing. Like, yeah, my like my best experience and the most I learned when I was in school, I had to do all the dumb gen ed classes. But like the best experience I had was doing the student teaching, doing the observation hours, and that's where you're learning the most. And I mean it's the same for anything. Like you're saying, like, I wouldn't know how to make a golf tournament, I wouldn't know how to run or make tea times or a field, and here's this professional who's done it for 20 years, and now you're like, Oh, I just have that more knowledge, and maybe there's a little trick they do now you can pick up on.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

I mean, a lot of what I've had to do is I've had to figure out stuff on my own. And so, especially with my assistants now, when I'm working on a golf tournament, I'll pull them in and I'll be like, hey, watch me do this. Or like one right now, I told him, I was like, I want you to set up every single men's tournament for the season. And I don't want you to like clone it because you can do that in our tournament software. You can clone it. Like, don't clone it. Like, learn how to do this, and then I'll always go in and double check their work, right? Or they'll come to me with questions. And I always tell assistants or new employees, like, there is no such thing as a stupid question. Ask me. Because, like, I'd rather you ask me and I can give you the answer than if you do something wrong, yes, I can go back and fix it, but I'd rather you just like ask me so you can learn as much as you can,

Prepping for Majors and PGA Tour Events

SPEAKER_01 20:32

yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

And I've it you've worked at some some pretty cool courses, and the one I I want to talk about a couple of them real quick. And the one is down in Houston, you mentioned they host the Chevron Championship. And for those who don't know, the LPGA major, the members are always like, Oh, yeah, I want to show off the the course to the the world and all that. What does it look like the month, two months before at the golf course? Is there as much play happening? That I'm sure the build-up is going for the the bleachers and all that. What does that look like for like the month leading up to that event?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah, I've been fortunate enough in my career that I started out at TBC San Antonio, which hosted Valero Texas Open PJ Tour event. So I had two years of that. I got to see two Valeros, and then I worked one Chevron at Carleton once. And then the second year they hosted it, I was at the other golf course, kind of focusing on the members. But probably about two months out, the build-out starts with the bleachers, and all the trucks and everything start coming in. So that's when kind of all the excitement starts to build, and you see that unrolling. And then, you know, kind of about a month out is when head pro or director of golf might sit us all down and kind of go through okay, this is what's happening. This is kind of our roles. That way everyone's on the same page for the week because it's crazy. Are the center of the golf world for an entire week?

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Wild.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

And so it's it's like all eyes are on you for an entire week, and then they just leave. It's like it's wild. And the best way I can describe it is like because everyone's like, Oh, like how much of a hand did you have in it? You literally just hand the golf course over because like PGA Tour and LPGA Tour, they have companies actually running the golf course. Yeah. And so like the director of golfs and the head pros are more involved in it. At TPC San Antonio, we were in charge of the merchandise tin. So that was our big focus was doing a merchandise tin. And the pro shop was also still open to the public too. So, you know, we were running that, staffing that. At Carleton Wood, we did the merchandise tin as well. But also the driving range was kind of our realm too. But the tournament's run off of volunteers as well. So, like you're an employee, but volunteers really do a lot too. So it's really cool. It's cool to be up close and personal to players too. Like I walked down the hall, I saw Jordan Speef eating breakfast. I walked past Billy Horschel. I got to show Tony Finell's wife like where to lock Kareem is cool. And then even like with the girls like Nellie Corda, I gave her sister Jessica's caddy a ride. I shuttled him, Celine Boutier. I got to shuttle around. It's really cool to kind of, especially as a golf nerd, kind of being up close and personal. My coworkers at Carleton Woods would tease me because I knew all the LPGA girls. And they're like, who's that? Who's that? And they kind of called me like encyclopedia. I kind of knew like we're already went to college and that. And it's just like, I just love that stuff. Kind of being in the center of the LPGA world, especially the first major and all the history with the Chevron was really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

I mean, that that must be cool now. As soon as the terate, the final putt drops Sunday night or Sunday afternoon, whatever it is. Like, how soon after can the members go back to playing? Is it is it Monday they can put tea in the ground and go, or they need to take it down?

SPEAKER_01 24:14

The tournament still has to go off course for Monday because that's a sponsor day. At TPC, we went car path only a month before, and the course closed, I think, 10 days before, either 10 days or two weeks before. At Carlton Woods, we never went car path only. Tournament week is Monday. Even though like the tournament starts Thursday, tournament week is Monday. The members still had the golf course Thursday morning before. Because we always had I had ladies stay on Thursday, and so the ladies would play the Nicholas course Thursday morning, and then that Thursday afternoon the course was shut down. So really the members didn't have access to the golf course for 10 days, which is incredible, especially since we had another golf course too. They only didn't have access to golf course for 10 days. So, like you said, Sunday, last putt drops, Monday is always sponsor day. Even at TPC San Antonio, that's one of the biggest charity fundraiser events, is always the Monday after. And then at Carlton Woods members were back on the cars on Tuesday.

Fairway Rapid Fire Questions

SPEAKER_00 25:27

I mean, the just to work there again, I live close to Oak Hill. So going up there and then hearing that just from people like, oh yeah, we haven't been able to play for a month or so. To finish up here, I'm gonna call the segment Fairy Fire question, which is just six random or not random, kind of rapid speed questions. Whatever you think, or whatever you think your answers, just shout, and then it will be good. They're not hard, they're pretty easy. First thing comes to mind, just say it. All right, so the first one, dream course to play.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Well, first one that comes to mind is Augusta.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yep, ever, yeah. I'm sure that'll be ever. Second one, favorite on course golf snack.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

Oh, an uncrustable. Those are like sneaky, where it's just a prime good golf course snack.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, it's again, I teach in an elementary school and I have a lunch duty, and I see so many uncrustables to the point where I buy them, and my fiancee goes, Why are you eating like a third gram? I see them every day and they're delicious.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

I had a first one like two years ago. We got them at Carlton Woods, and the members lost their minds when I was like, I've never had uncrustables a P B and J. And they're like, it is life-changing, and it truly is. You put it in the freezer and it's thawed out by the time you make the turn. It's yes, it comes in clutch.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yes, no, so good. All right, the next one, early morning tea time or a sunset round.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I'm like a 10 o'clock tea time person.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Where it's like I can still sleep in, but I still have the rest of the day to do what I want after golf. Like, I don't like getting up super early, but I I don't know, it just depends. Like, if I'm playing in a tournament, I want like a nine o'clock tea time because I can still sleep in. But like after work, I'm going out for an evening nine. And there is something special about playing like golf at twilight. Yeah. Um, but no, I'm like a 9:30, 10 o'clock tea time. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

For me, it's got it depending on the weather. Like, I don't want to be out there in the middle of the day in the hot sun, but yeah, that I will agree with you. There's something about like going to play nine after work or something that is just nice. Just walk and play.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

All right, the next one, the favorite club in your golf bag.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Oh, that changes. Probably driver. I've always been a really good driver of the golf ball. I would probably have to say driver. That or my potter's been working pretty well recently. I changed putters last season in the middle of the season, but I would probably have to say driver.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

Okay. Who would be in your dream for some to play golf with?

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Oh, probably Tiger. Oh, this is so hard.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Yeah, this one's probably the tough thing.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Tiger. Either Rory or Nellie. And then probably my dad.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, you can't go wrong with any of those professionals.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

The last one, your favorite golf movie.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

Ooh. Probably Tin Cup. I'm honestly not that much of a movie person. But yeah, if I had to pick a golf movie, probably Tin Cup.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Yeah, and I mean a good, good, solid one. Megan, thanks for doing this. I I think it's really cool to hear different PJ professionals' views on different things. And yeah, I think the listeners will definitely get some good insight from you. I think your advice was great to aspiring ones. So thank you for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Yeah, thanks for having me. This was fun.