The Teacher and The Pro
Elementary school teacher Nathan Rarick interviews PGA Professionals about their journeys into golf and their unique paths within the golf industry.
The Teacher and The Pro is a Fairway to Green podcast.
The Teacher and The Pro
Stephen Phillips | Midtown Golf Club
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode of "The Teacher and The Pro," host Nathan Rarick interviews Stephen Phillips, a PGA Professional and golf coach at Midtown Golf Club in Texas.
They discuss his path into the game of golf and into the industry, including his PGM program at Ferris State University. Stephen shares about his touring professional ambitions and his past role as a Direction of Instruction.
Stephen dives into his love of teaching golf and not only shares his thoughts on the biggest mistakes amateur golfers make, but he also explains why it's so important for golfers to get their clubs fitted.
"The Teacher and the Pro" is a Fairway to Green podcast. You can see all episodes at www.fairwaytogreen.com.
Meet Stephen Phillips: Golf Coach Through and Through
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Teacher in the Pro, where we dive into PGA professionals' journeys and the paths they've chosen within the golf industry. I'm Nathan Rarrick, an elementary P teacher and golfer for Fairdo3, an equitable sports media company. Joining us this episode is Steven Phillips, a golf coach at Midtown Golf Club in Texas. Steven has been a tournament director, head golf professional, and director of instruction in his time as a PJ professional. He shares his passion for teaching others and some great advice to future PJ professionals. Thank you, Steven, for coming on. I know we were going to get into what you do as a PJ professional and director of instruction where you're
Stephen's Beginnings in Golf
SPEAKER_00at now, but before we get into where you are now, I want to go kind of to how it started and who got you into the game of golf or or what event brought you into the game of golf.
SPEAKER_01Thanks for having me on. This is my first podcast journey. Being on anything, so you know, just winging it here. But uh yeah, no, I got into the business very young. I think a buddy of mine, Casey, had some golf clubs, and we were in his backyard and just hitting wiffle balls, and I'd had never gripped a club or anything, and I really just loved the feel of striking something with a golf club. And a couple of months later, my father uh got me a set of clubs. I was actually homesick from school that day with the flu, but I was so excited. I walked to our country club, still really under the weather, and played, you know, nine holes by myself with my new golf clubs. And ever since then, I mean, I was hooked. It was just, it was, I don't know. I think because of the challenge and just the constant improvement I saw without really any instruction myself when I started, and just like it takes a lot of work. And even when I was, you know, I think I was eight or nine years old at the time, and I just realized hitting ball after ball, this takes a lot of work just to see a little bit of improvement. And I just love that challenging yourself aspect of the game, and that's really got me got me hooked from day one.
SPEAKER_00That's that's great. It's it always starts somewhere and every
Dreams of Playing Professionally
SPEAKER_00everyone's different. And how did you know, like you again, you're playing golf and loving that strike of hitting the golf ball? How did you know you wanted to have a career in golf? And was it being a PJ professional? Is that what your heart was set on when you were 18, 19 years old, or do you just any kind of industry golf job?
SPEAKER_01Like most golfers, when they're really young and they're playing a decent game, by the age of 11, I was shooting, you know, not great, but I was breaking 80 at my home course, a little home course called Western Hills Country Club. And uh my aspirations were to be a professional golfer on TV. I wanted to be a PGA pro, not a golf professional. So I think a lot of people have or they get it sort of mixed up. There's a golf professional and then there's a PGA professional. So a golf professional is what I signed up for, but I wanted to be a professional golfer to start with. Unfortunately, like most, those weren't in the cards for me. Just because I thought I was really good, but I wasn't as good as you know uh the men and women that are lucky enough to play on you know the respective tours and make a living doing it with their golf game.
SPEAKER_00I'm a baseball coach and uh a PE teacher, so my goal is I'm gonna be a professional baseball player in that for sure. But everyone has teams and you never know. Again, you still get to work a really cool job in the game of golf, and you're around that you love for a long time now. And when you decided you know what I can't become a professional golfer, I gotta figure out another way into this golf industry. Was going to uh PGM school in your mind? Were you gonna go get a business degree? Did you do the self-learning way to become a PJ professional? How did you how did you achieve that goal?
SPEAKER_01So I did go the PGM route after a lot of begging with my parents about the cost of it. Um I went to Farris State University, okay, which is I guess you can consider it at the Harvard Golf Schools. It was the first PGM university. I think it was founded in 1975. I could be way off with the numbers, but it was around 75, early 80s. And at that time, there were only three other PGM schools in the whole United States. And they only accept 40 people a year. So it's a very, well, at the time, it was a very sort of like, whoa, this is this is a big deal if I get into Ferris State. I did apply to Ferris and Mississippi State at the time, also had a program, I believe New Mexico State. I can't think of the fourth, but I think Ferris is still considered sort of the top uh M university.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Now, once you got your PGA, your certification, become a PGA pro, what was what was your first job in the golf industry? Because everyone has to start like low on the totem pole. So, where what was your first job like just fresh out of college with that PGA professional degree?
SPEAKER_01The the great thing about a PGM university is you get to go on internships, paid internships. My first paid internship, I was 19 years old, and I went to a club in Bridgehampton, Long Island called Atlantic Golf Club, very well-known private club. The head pro at the time, well, his name was Rick Hartman, and just, you know, really was a great first mentor. You know, I work started working as an outside bag guy, so I would, you know, grab the bags and you know, wash the carts and do all that fun stuff. But being an intern, he would also include me in uh let's say playing. He would invite one of his buddies out, which he played on the European tour for many, many years. So one of his good buddies was just parnovic. And I don't know how old you are, but Jesper Parnovic on the PGA tour used to be a really well-known name. A name I grew up as not really idolizing him, but I was like, man, he's really good. Yeah. And Rick came in the I was the assistant caddy master as well. So I had a lot of different hats he's even as a 19-year-old. And he asked me if I wanted to play Nine Holes, and I said, sure, yeah, it'd be great. And I walk out the door, and there's Jesper Parnavek. And I was just sort of starstruck. I was like, I never played with a PGA touring pro. And he was this was still, he was, I think, getting preparing for the US Open out there, so he was staying in Long Island for because I think it was in Shinnicok that year at Shinnnecock Golf Club, and played nine holes with him. I was nervous, very nervous, to the point where I was felt like I was shaking. But he was such a nice guy, and just things like that. I was like, oh my gosh, this is my first internship. I think I immediately got off the phone and called my director at Ferris State and said, I just have to play nine holes for Yes for Barnavik. And he's like, that's awesome. I'm sort of jealous. And from there, I was very fortunate with Ferris State's help, getting into some really exclusive private clubs that sort of helped me build my resume to get me in the door to a lot of other private upper restaurant
Life as the Director of Instruction
SPEAKER_01clubs.
SPEAKER_00Looking at what you know, you've been assistant golf professional, golf professional, head golf, tournament director. And now with the director of instruction, again, you're you're the first one I I've talked to. What is your day-to-day look like? Are you strictly giving lessons all day? Are you are you doing other things other than teaching? Can you just kind of give me your your day-to-day life? And again, it may be different every day from what I've talked to. Every day is different as a PGA professional.
SPEAKER_01Well, the thing I like about and yes, every day is different, which I think is why a lot of us enjoy the job so much. It's not a monotonous, you know, clock in at nine, leave at five. Some days I get in at 7 a.m. Some days I get in at 5 a.m. Some days I get in at 1 p.m., you know? Yeah. But normally I try to work at least 10 to 12 hours a day. But my my day starts like most. Uh I go in the office, I check my emails, uh, then I look to see who I'm scheduled to work with, either with a private lesson or uh like tomorrow I have two lessons starting at 8 and 10, and then I have juniors at from four to five. So that's sort of on my docket, my three big responsibilities for the day tomorrow. Uh will just be two lessons, two individual lessons, and then running a junior clinic for an hour, and then uh the free time I'll have, I walk the line, talk to members, play golf. If they ask me to play nine holes, I'll go out and play nine holes with them. And and just basically just, you know, hanging out at the golf club, just trying to make people better. If I see one of my students who's getting ready to go out and they're struggling with a chip shot on the short game area, I'll go over and spend five minutes with them and get them to be a little more confident before they hit that first T.
Why Stephen Chose Teaching Over Management
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Now I I'm a elementary P teacher, so I'm I'm teaching all day, similar to you. What was it that, again, you like I said, you've been a head golf professional. Why, why did you want to become a director of instruction? Do you just love the teaching aspect of the game? Yes. And and like the golf swing, you're continually learning. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01There's compared to other sports, there's not a manual. Well, there is the PGA teaching manual, but it doesn't, it gives you the basics, right? But I think every student I teach, I get to learn a little, maybe I learn a little something from them. Like the communication skills to work with this student might be different than this student. But I did do, you know, for many, many years, was a an assistant, lead assistant at some really nice clubs in California, Colorado, South Florida. And I really don't like being an indoors. And if you are a director of golf or a head golf professional, a lot of your time is spent in your office. I'm saying six, seven, eight, maybe nine hours a day. And then you might have a couple of golf lessons on top of that. So to me, it just seemed like a perfect fit to be a director of instruction where I'm indoors maybe one to two hours a day, but I'm outside for 10 to 12 hours.
SPEAKER_00The one thing I I've heard constantly talking with people is that PGA professionals work a lot of hours. Now, is that something you expected when you got in? I mean, obviously the internships and all of that prepare for you, but it it's still gotta be tough, like you're saying, 10, 12 hours a day in Texas is not a cold place, but again, you like being outside. In those hot months in Texas, is it is it tough sometimes? Well, like any job, there's challenges for sure.
SPEAKER_01But from my first internship and and even watching as before I got to college, watching my head pro at my parents' course, they work a lot of long hours and they prepared me. Like if you really want to be in this business, expect to have no holidays off, expect to work the weekends. So basically, the time where others have freedom, that's when I'm we're the busiest. I do tell a lot of younger golf professionals aspiring to get in the game. I really want you to know how much you're gonna be there. So if you have a significant other or something like that, you need to be very upfront with them and let them know hey, I work 10 to 14 hours a day. I work the weekends, I work the holidays, so are you okay with that? I mean, my only day off is one day a week, currently, still, which is better than some jobs. Some jobs I work seven days a week.
SPEAKER_00You've got to really love it. My next question to you is what's one piece of advice you would give to an aspiring PJ professional? And you kind of answer just now with realize it's gonna be long hours. Now, like you said, with those long hours, it it's right. Teaching the golf swing is fun. I what I do with teaching, whatever I'm teaching that day in class, it's fun. That's why I got into it. Right
Common Amateur Golfer Mistakes
SPEAKER_00now, as a teacher yourself of the golf game, what would you say is one of the biggest mistakes an amateur golf makes with their golf swing? Whoa, well.
SPEAKER_01Some people, you know, fortunately, I've worked with a lot of high-end clientele, and most of these men and women have been ultra successful in every aspect of everything in their life since they were young, aspiring businessmen or women. Yeah. I think the biggest thing, and I always tell during a first lesson after we get to know each other and what their expectations versus reality is. Because I'm gonna give you reality, but what's your expectation getting into this? In three months, where do you see your game if you're a beginner? If you played for 20 years, what's a short-term goal? Something we can accomplish in three months or less. If it's a long-term goal, it's gonna be three and a half months to could be two years. I think and it took me a while to learn that. And I've had some really good mentors that have uh help me to communicate really effectively. I think that's the biggest thing uh with teaching the game, as you know, as teaching, you know, yourself is communication. Knowledge is important, but connecting with people and like simplifying concepts, that's what makes you a a decent coach. I I will nowhere shape for Sam McGurney coach. I'm getting better every day. I mean, I'm learning, and hopefully in a few years I'll be known as a pretty good instructor.
SPEAKER_00I've I've been teaching now for this is coming up my eighth year here or ninth year here at the end of June. And yeah, there are still days where I go in and I teach the same lesson, and all of a sudden I go, you what? This isn't that good, or like I realize this has to change, and each student, like you're saying, is different. And again, I've taken some golf lessons, and sometimes, like you said, I'm a 15, 16 handicap. I don't understand the golf swing. I don't know if anyone fully understands it, but like I've had instructors and other PGA professionals here in New York say things, and I just I'm like, I need you to like dummy it down to me, like if I'm 12 years old, because what you're saying right now is is going right over my head.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I mean, I was even told by one of my good mentors many years ago in Florida, his name's Dr. Green Wire. He basically wrote the teaching manual for the PGA of America. He's a well-known instructor. I think he's still in charge of all director of Trump properties for instruction content. He's, you know, he he basically told me you need to be able to explain the knowledge that you have to as of someone that's five or six years old. Really ask a lot of questions, try to figure out one, what their learning style is. I mean, if someone's a visual learner and I'm just talking to them, that's not going to do it. Or if they're a kinesthetic learner, I need to put them in position so they can feel things. So I think a lot of young pros like myself, I didn't know this process. But the first time you meet someone, it's it's like an interview going. We usually sit have a cup of coffee or tea or whatever, and I just sort of get to know them. And one, it makes them feel a little more comfortable because it it I've taken many, many golf lessons myself during my life as a as a golfer. And some people I click with and some people I don't. I mean, you can be the number one instructor on the planet, but if you can't communicate to that student in front of you what they need at that time, it's basically useless.
SPEAKER_00As a teacher, I completely agree with that. Is again, I teach elementary school, so there will be one class I'm teaching a fifth grader, and then the next it's a kindergartner who has no idea what's going on. I love that you brought up the there are different types of learners because you're so right, and each person learns differently. I think a good instructor like yourself knows that hey, with this lesson, I need to be a little more, I can explain a little more this one. I need to show them visually. And I think that really I think separates a good teacher to an okay average
The Highs and Lows of Coaching
SPEAKER_00teacher. Now, the next thing, again, I've talked to PJ professionals, just talking to some locally here and where I'm from. There's a lot of highs and lows to this career. Can you just give me one or two highs and lows that you feel as a PJ professional?
SPEAKER_01In my current role, I think the highs are the best part is seeing players improve and the look on their face when they've hit a shot they've never hit before, and they turn around and give you a look, and that just I just want to scream and I'm so happy to see that look. Yeah, that that's and you've seen it as a as a teacher, as a oh, I love it. It's the reason I do it. That's the reason I do it. It's a sort of an addictive thing. So I want to for sure. I want to get that look as many times as I can. Now, some weeks I go, I only see that look twice, but some weeks I'm very fortunate to see it happen 10, 12, 15 times, and that just makes me continually want to keep going and improve. If it's 99 degrees with 80% humidity, and I've had five other lessons, and I've got a 6 p.m. lesson with a beginner, and I'm sort of mentally a little down, but I'm like, okay, you've got to give the same amount of effort and enthusiasm as you gave in that first lesson of the day. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a tough thing as well, is to dig deep when you're when you're tired, mentally, physically, and to be able to give a quality lesson where they're gonna go home and be like, Man, he just really made a difference in how I look at the game.
SPEAKER_00I do interviews for jobs if I'm looking, and they're like, Why do you do it? It's like when that kid comes up to you and shows you something that they couldn't do three days ago and they're so excited to show you. I mean, it's it's like, you know what? I am I'm doing the right thing, I'm doing it right, and they are listening
Why Club Fitting Matters
SPEAKER_00now. As the director of instruction, again, that's just because I haven't had one on, I have all these questions. I've got I've taken lessons, and like I said, I'm a 1560 handicap, and the consistent advice that I've gotten is you need to have golf clubs fitted to you. How important is that as an amateur golfer to have golf clubs fitted to you?
SPEAKER_01I believe it's very important, and that mindset has changed over probably the last 15 years, maybe 15 years ago, I really noticed how much having clubs fit, even if you're a beginner, are very important. So that's one thing I stress to my beginners if I have to bring out a rental set of clubs for our first lesson, is and they ask me, like, well, what are your suggestions on on clubs? And we're fortunate in Miramont and every club I've been fortunate to work at to have what we call demo days. And I'll sign people up. And I'll usually, if I have time, I will sit with the the rep, whether it be a titleist rep or tailor made or whoever, you know, the top five Callaway. So I'll sit with them and you know their swing, even though it might be a beginner swing, but they still need to get the correct length, they need to get the correct lie angle, those things, which will change if you're a beginner over time as you get better and progress in the game. But I I think everyone that starts this game needs needs to go through a proper club fitting.
SPEAKER_00I'm just a little hesitant because again, I live in New York, so our golf season is just starting now, and even now it's raining all the time. And with coaching and doing things, I don't I don't play a lot of golf. I wish I could play more. And to me, it's like, well, I play less than 20 times a year just because of where I live and how busy I am. Is it like, is it worth it? But then I'm on the golf course and I'm hitting a shot or two. I'm like, man, maybe a different club would help. When I started, I was using a regular flex driver and I went and got a lesson, and the guy goes, This is you need to use a stiff. And I'm like, I don't even know that they made different flexes because I was a 17-year-old, 18-year-old college kid that just picked up clubs from my dad's garage. Like, so it's like all these things that, yeah, I don't ever think about, but it's the little thing that could help me improve my game.
SPEAKER_01No, I totally agree. And it's the PGA professional or the coach in front of you's job to recommend these things, you know. And I think I'm not speaking for most, but every mentor of mine that I've shadowed and watched give lessons, there's always a club discussion somewhere in that one to two hour lesson.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it's it's the tool you're hitting the golf ball is, so it makes sense. I I really need to pull the trigger and find the fitter, like you're saying, maybe a demo day at one of the clubs near me and and figure out what clubs are the best. Because I I don't know, I know I've done the online testing things, and I think just going and hitting them in person is the best way to do it from multiple people's advice.
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, from a and I I don't want to take away from this discussion, but just helping you. So we know your swing speed is enough to require stiff flex clubs. That's your first step is getting the shaft right or the engine of the golf club. And then when you're picking, you know, clubs as far as club heads, whether it be woods, irons, hybrids, putters, wedges, we need to tailor that to one, how it looks or feels to you. Like if you look down at a driver and you're like, oh, I don't like looking at this club, you're probably not gonna hit it that well. So aesthetics in my mind is very important as well. And then just trying different things. Yeah, it might take, and I always tell my students, don't buy right away. We've got, let's say they went for a title as Betty. I say, Well, if you weren't totally sold on that, I think we should try out Tailor made that's coming next week. Let's try them out. And so just like buying a car, you shouldn't go around the lot and buy the first thing you see, try it out. When the great thing about technology these days is we can put you on a track man or some other similar device, and you can see if it's improving or not improving your numbers that we're looking for to fit you into that club.
SPEAKER_00It's a perfect analogy with the car. And I've been meaning to do it, and maybe I'll pull the trigger this summer and and figure some some club stuff out.
Fairway Rapid Fire Fun
SPEAKER_00Now, before I let you go, I gotta ask you a couple fun questions. So we called these questions the fairway round. Rapid fire question. So it's six questions about golf, and you just can give me your best answer right off the top of your head. I'll do my best. All right. Your dream golf course to play.
SPEAKER_01It's already happened, but I would love to play there all the time. It's called Cypress Point. Yeah. It's in Monterey, California. And by far, I was lucky enough at one of my jobs. I worked for a club called Stone Eagle Golf Club. And we have some very influential members and a lot of members at this club. And they were lucky enough to get myself, the head golf professional, and one of my mentors and the GM at the time, and he still is the GM there. We went on a golf trip and we went and played the Valley Club in Montecito. We went to play, I think, the Preserve and Carmel. And then our last day, we got to go play Cypress Point. That's and I that's a club I ever since I saw it when I was I think 10 year 10 or 11 years old in golf our sports illustrator, golf digest. I was like, I have to play that course. And I got to play it once, and I was, yeah, if I could play there every day, my life would be complete.
SPEAKER_00It's so cool. I know they've hosted events there. I really, really want them to host a PG event or something there. Just I I just want to see the pros play it.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's that they would destroy the course. They would very oh, it's an easy golf course, but it's just the the views are just breath breathtaking. I mean, you're right on the water, you're hearing seals bark, the waves crashing. I mean, all your senses are involved. I mean, it's just such such a great day. I'll remember that day the rest of my life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's really cool. Now, the next question: your favorite on course golf snack.
SPEAKER_01I'll keep it simple. I just like a banana.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Yeah. I mean, I've had some simple answers. I've had someone told me bacon and peanut butter sandwich, which I do not see in my future, but they said their club, it was like they were known for it. And I was like, nope, no thanks.
SPEAKER_01Well, at the turn, go with that's great advice. If you're ever playing in your club, you don't know. At the turn, ask the person working the turn, what's your favorite, you know, what's your most thought item? You're not going to be disappointed. Even though I don't think I would go with the bacon that whatever you said, I don't think I would go with that either.
SPEAKER_00Are you an early morning tea time or a sunset round tea time? Both.
SPEAKER_01I love the being the first person at tee off, and I like being the last person at tee off. So either 7 a.m. or 5 p.m.
SPEAKER_00All right. Favorite golf club in your bag. Oh, my putter. Okay, what type of putter is it?
SPEAKER_01It is a Scotty Cameron mallet putter, and I just love it. It's just well, and people always ask me this question a lot. It's the most used club in your bag.
SPEAKER_00It's the only club I've had fitted because someone told me that. It's a club we use every hole, unless you chip in, and I'm not chipping in very often. So that's the one club I've had fitted for me.
SPEAKER_01And I ask, you know, my students or friends, I'm like, okay, let's just use some simple math. If you go play teen holes, use your driver maybe 12, 13 times, but use your putter, let's say if you two-putt, if you're lucky enough to two-putt every hole, that's 36 times you're using that club. So that's a pretty big difference between the driver and the putter because everyone always says the driver.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it's it should be your putter or your lob wedge or what club you use from 60 yards and end to the green.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Good to know. Who would be in your dream for some to play golf with? Oh, goodness.
SPEAKER_01They have to be alive still or no? No, no, anyone. Okay. Wow, that's a great question. Arnold Palmer, first and foremost, the guy's just they call him the king for a reason. The guy is unbelievable. Let's see. Second. Man, this is that's a tough question because my head's got 50 names and I don't want to say the wrong answer. Let's see. I think who's playing on the tour now that I really, really love their golf game. Oh, man. I guess Scotty Scheffler. That would be a second. And I think him and Arnold, because that's important too, to get the right foresome as far as people that you think would get along. Correct. Let's see. I've already played with Donald Trump and I don't want to do that again. But that would be for another day. Yeah. Yeah. So not definitely not Donald Trump. Take him away. That's who I've already played with that I would not want to play with again. Let's see. Probably Tiger Woods.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I would say. You know, I still respect what he's doing for the game. He's right up there with Jack and Arnie for growing the game and making people that normally wouldn't play this game, they really every era, respectively, have increased golfers, which makes my job better. So yeah, for sure. And yeah, so that would, and probably Jack Nicholas. If I can make it a five, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's fine. So yeah, that would be it. And then my my last one for you, your favorite golf movie. Oh, geez.
SPEAKER_01Well, you know everyone's gonna think Caddyshack. It's uh that's I always think between Caddyshack and Ten Cup. Those are the two that I probably caddyshack, but then 10 cup's a close second.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, both both are classic and and great movies. And yes. I'm trying to think of I know people have said Tin Cup. I don't know if anyone's said Caddyshack yet. I don't know. I'll I'll have to go back. I yeah, I don't know. I'll have to go back and and listen to some other ones, but I I don't remember. But I know Tink Cup has been mentioned.
SPEAKER_01Now you've seen Caddyshack.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, have you seen Tin Cup?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Okay, perfect. Then both are good.
SPEAKER_01I mean, yeah, and there's I mean five to ten others that are great movies, but those are my
Advice for Aspiring PGA Professionals
SPEAKER_01no again.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, Steve, for doing this. I know it's a busy life you live as a director of instruction. I know your time is is precious and you don't get a lot of free time with your job, but I really do thank you for this. And I I think some of your insight into being a director of instruction and being a PJ professional is gonna bring some great learning aspects to it to a future PGA pro or just the audience learning more about what you do as a PGA professional.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and for you know, anyone who is getting into the game and wants to, you know, choose teaching as their career, remember it's about coaching the person, not the swing. Okay. Communication, connection with that individual is so important. And I think if a lot of teaching pros realize that, they would have a much more full lesson book and a much more fulfilling life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's great advice, as we leave here. Thank you again for coming on. You're very welcome.