Robert Gilbert | Ravenwood Golf Club

In this episode of “The Teacher and The Pro,” host Nathan Rarick interviews Robert Gilbert, the Head Golf Professional at Ravenwood Golf Club in Rochester, New York.

They discuss how Robert’s career in the golf industry - which started in a bag room - led him to being a Head Golf Professional and the highs and lows of the role.

Robert also stresses the importance of the golf mental game and offers advice on how to best improve it.

"The Teacher and the Pro" is a Fairway to Green podcast. You can see all episodes at www.fairwaytogreen.com.

Transcript

Meet Robert Gilbert: From Bag Room to Head Golf Professional

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to The Teacher and the Pro, where we dive into PJ professionals' journeys and the past they've chosen within the golf industry. I'm Nathan Rarick, an elementary P teacher and golf writer for a fairy degree, an equitable sports media company. Joining us this episode is Robert Gilbert, the head golf professional at Ravenwood Golf Club in New York. Robert discusses his journey to becoming a head golf pro and about how the golf boom post-pandemic has changed the damn environment of people playing golf. He then shares a great piece of advice for PGA golf professionals and another tip for the amateur golfer. Before we get into being a PGA professional, what started you in the game of golf? Was it a family member? Was it you saw it on TV? What was the first draw of the game of golf?

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Actually, it was my mother. I was bored one day and she said, Well, why don't I take you down to the local driving range? And that was that. First day, I was there for like four hours. And she's like, All right, it's time to go. And I said, No, I want to stay. And she said, We can come back tomorrow. So from that point on, it was an everyday occurrence.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Did you, as you were growing up, did you play high school golf? I played in high school, yes. Okay. Did when did you know you wanted to be a part of the golf industry? Like what was it a certain time in your life or after high school? You're like, I don't want to give up this game. Let me go find a job in the field of golf.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Actually, it was ninth grade, went out for the golf team, made it, and played that throughout the four years in high school. And I had some friends that were playing baseball and football and that. And they wanted me to do that. And I said, No, I'm just gonna stick with golf.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So that's what I did. Nice. Now, you said you were in the golf industry before becoming a PJ professional. What did you do in the golf industry before becoming a head

Golf Industry Jobs

SPEAKER_01 1:51

pro?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Worked on a grounds crew, worked in a bag room, worked in a golf shop, just about anything and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

Nice. Now, as the game has evolved, and obviously I've talked to a couple other people with the golf boom and since kind of the pandemic, have you seen your your golf club where you work? Has it really been the golf boom, as people say? Have you seen more rounds being played every year?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yes, actually uh 2025. There was two months, I think it was July and September, I believe, that we broke records for golf rounds played in a month. So yeah, we did over 40,000 rounds last year. Wow. And that's pretty good from being open, you know. Like last year we got lucky, it was mid-March till almost Thanksgiving last year. So yeah, for a public facility and our time span that we have, that was pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Yeah, especially in New York, like you're saying that it's not a long time span to play golf. Now, what what made you decide to become a PJ professional? Like you said, you obviously held multiple jobs in golf industry before. When was it like I want to be a head pro?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, it started. This is my second career. I got married somewhat young, had a daughter. So I had a job that basically I had to do. And then when my daughter graduated high school, I've had friends, very close friends, that urged me, you know, now that you don't have to do the job that you're doing, go do the job you want to do. And that's what I did.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Nice. Now, did you you had do the did you do the self the self-learning path with taking the classes by yourself and all that?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Or did you

Becoming a PGA Professional

SPEAKER_00 3:37

yeah, so I went through the PGA school and you go down to seminars, you have to pass a background check, and then you have to pass a playing ability test, and then you have to take seminars. It's changed around a little bit now, but you had to get X amount correct before you could start. Now it's a little bit easier because they went through and thought that was a little bit kind of holding people back. So they went through now, and you have to shoot a certain number depending on course rating and all that, and then you can start your book work. And once you start your book work, I went through three seminars. Okay. Um, actually being in New York, it kind of helped because summertime you're busy, but in the wintertime, you could do your book work, and then after each level, we physically went down to Port St. No, Pom Palm Beach Gardens, okay, and went to seminars. And we had speakers talk to us. We ran through various things that might happen, might not happen, but basically a lot of learning. And you did that for each seminar, and each one got more and more involved. So when you're out of that program, you can be anything in the golf industry. You can be a head pro, you can be a director of golf, you can be a general manager, they encompass everything and they just let you kind of decide which route you want to take.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Very cool. Now, I've talked to some people, and even before talking to people, just talking to people at golf courses. I know the the head pros and PJ professionals, they wear many hats. What does a a day in your life look like? Obviously, now we're in March, so I don't know if you guys have opened your course yet. The weather's been pretty bad here in New York, so I'm assuming not. But if you could tell me what a day in maybe we'll say like June, what does your day look like in a day in June?

SPEAKER_00 5:28

I usually get here an hour before tea time. We need to pull out carts. I mean, we have cart attendants that do that as well, but I don't like being behind. So the more I can get done before people start showing up, the easier the day is gonna go. So I will pull out golf carts, line them up, get member bags out and set them aside. So when the members show up, they just grab a cart and go. Check people in, answer the phone. If the starter needs a hand, I'll go down and help him. Or the backroom staff needs, you know, a hand, I'll go out and help them. So basically, it's whatever needs to be done. There's no, you know, I don't do that. Everything is on the table. I mean, if you go in literally anything, yeah. I've gone into the kitchen before and made breakfast sandwiches, you know. So it doesn't whatever it is, you just do it. There's no questions, it needs to be done, so you just do it.

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Yeah, I mean, it seems like literally making breakfast sandwiches is something I did not expect the head pro to be doing, but again, it's all hands on deck now. Yes, you were you were saying your club experienced some new records with rounds

Golf Boom Post-pandemic

SPEAKER_01 6:40

played. Have you seen the demographic of people at your course change? Has it got more younger? Have you seen more women start to play? Or is it stayed the same?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

No, it's both more younger people. Obviously, people are not going to a building. Most people don't go to a building anymore. There's more time, so a lot more younger 20s to 30s are coming out, and yes, a lot more women as well. Our senior is just about the same, maybe a little bit of an uptick in it, but that's the one that pretty much stays regular. A few more kids. So, yeah, the demographics is changing a little bit. It's not per se, you know, the old man game anymore. Yeah, there's a lot of people getting into it.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, I mean, that that's again, I'm a teacher, and I remember during the pandemic, one of the only things we could teach at the time I was a high school teacher was golf because I could kind of make them spread out and they could hold their own golf club. And and we saw our high school golf team with other sports being canceled, all of a sudden gain football players were like, Oh, I'll go play golf. And now, even we're six years later, and our golf team has 12, 15 kids on it. Whereas before, when I started teaching, it had four. It's been great to see because it again, it's it's a great game. You can do it at any age, you can walk, it's good exercise, and it just teaches the kids of something a little different other than a fast pass game. Now, it as the PGA prof as the head pro, do you have other professionals on staff? Like obviously, I know of Ravenwood because I'm not too far. I live about 40 minutes away from there, but some of the listeners may not. I know it's not the biggest club in New York, but are you the only uh PGA professional on staff there, or are there more?

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Our director of golf is a PGA professional as well. So we have two, and we have a PGA professional that has a business here that she gives lessons through as well, and she employs other PGA professionals. So I would say there's at any given time we have four. Okay, but as far as the golf area goes, it's just the director of golf and myself. We have one assistant that is getting into the program. So hopefully within a couple of years, we'll have three.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Now, can I mean I've I'm just trying to learn? So it he's an assistant. Can he be an assistant without having those PGA professional certifications as long as he's working towards it?

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yes, yes. See the one gentleman you talked to that goes to Coastal Carolina, down in that section, they hire a lot of non-PGA people. So yeah, you do not have to be PGA to get hired. Okay, yeah. But when people see that you are PGA, they know that you've got that education and can pretty much handle anything thrown at them unless you've been in the business a long time and not being a PGA professional, you know. So it's all by experience how much you've seen and what you do learn throughout the bookwork and the seminars and just being at the golf court.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, no, it definitely. I just had a student teacher with me, and I was like, these next seven weeks with me and the seven weeks at your next placement are going to be more than you learned in your four years of school. It's just the hands-on experience is so much better than the bookwork.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Yes, very much so. This is more of a real life experience, you know, because they gave us some examples of the seminars, you know, how to confront people that have had too much to drink on the course, you know, and then you had to role-play it out. So we would pair up and go out and act like we were, you know, sorry, you've had a little bit too much to drink. We're gonna have to ask you to leave, we'll bring you in. And the teachers were like, Oh, okay, yeah, you're right. And you know as well as I do that does not happen in real-world experience. No, I mean, that's yeah, the experience to me is more than the book work. Yes, the book work is very important for what you do day to day, but having that experience to me is a little bit more important. It shows you how to do it, not what to do.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah, for sure. And how you you've done it for many years now. What would you say if there is some aspiring PJ professionals listening to this episode?

Highs and Lows of a PGA Professional

SPEAKER_01 10:58

What are some highs and lows of your profession?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Personally, I have way more highs than lows. Okay, that's fine. My biggest highs are when I give a lesson and the student progresses from the beginning to the end, watching them turn around with a big smile on their face because they've hit it well. And just basically learning and not being as frustrated. Another high is having members. I enjoy members. I like to talk to them, I like to get to know them personally. I mean, from some of the other courses I've worked at, I still stay in contact with members from the other clubs and the outside staff. I mean, I've talked to generally half of my outside staff at least once a month just to see how they're doing and they come over to rave and what to play. So, yeah, I mean, that's that is very fulfilling.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Oh, yeah, I can relate. I again I teach elementary PE. So when we we start something and they can't do it, and at the end of the unit, they're excited to tell me it's a great feeling. And again, I I know that feeling as trying to get better at the game of golf and looking back at the person giving me my lesson, or even if it's my fiance's dad who's giving me this tip, and I'm like, oh, that did work. Yeah, especially because this game of golf can be so frustrating because that little white ball is just sitting there, it's not moving. I played baseball for 15 years of my life. You can throw me a fastball and a curveball, and I can hit it right that golf ball up, and all of a sudden I have no idea where it's going.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

Right. Yes, that is that is the frustrating part. So, actually, when I give a lesson, it's more obviously mechanical-wise to get them to hit it better, but also I like to put in the mental aspect of the game. So, because most people don't have bad swings, they think they do, but it's just a couple of tweaks here and there. It's the mental aspect of it. I find that is holding them back more than the physical. I mean, I'm part of the PGA whole program, it's that stands for helping our patriots everywhere. Our section does free lessons for veterans, all they need to do is sign up. So we deal with some that have physical disabilities, and it seems like their mental aspect is far better than you know what limits them in the physical aspect of it. So it's a combination of both. So hopefully, you know, the mental aspect will play a little bit more in it than the physical.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

What is your because this is I have I've had a couple people on they haven't even talked about the mental side. I've never really thought about what is like your biggest piece of advice to a mental piece of advice for an average golfer like me who's a 15 handicap.

Mental Game Advice for Golfers

SPEAKER_00 13:43

You're gonna hit bad shots, yeah, but before you get upset at them, see what caused the bad shot or the ball flight or whatever, and try to adjust it. If you don't know, ask somebody. I like to tell even the pros hit bad shots, and it's only one shot. You do not have to change your swing for one shot. So just try to stay with what we're working on, and eventually it will work. So you need to just not be, oh, it's not working, and then go back to the old swing. The patience level, you need it if you're changing something pretty much drastic. You'll see results here and there, but then at other times you won't. And then you're like, well, this isn't working, so I'm going back to the old swing. So people I find people give up on it a little bit too early as opposed to you know sticking with it. And I know everything is instant gratification now, yeah. But with golf, it you may get instant gratification, but generally that doesn't stick around long.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

No, yeah, I that's a very good because again, like you're saying, pros hit bad shots, right? We just saw De Goberg who looked unbeatable and all of a sudden exactly, and he's two water balls and he's out of turn, and he's right the top 10 player in the world.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

I like to say if somebody hits a bad shot, I'll ask him, What do you think you know went wrong there that we've discussed? And they'll say, Well, I didn't do this. And I said, All right, now's your chance to do it. And they hit it just like you know, we have he had practiced she. And again, they turn around and look at you, and it it sometimes it clicks, it's like, yeah, that's all I've got to do. I don't have to do any more than I'm trying to do. So, yeah, to have them adjust like they do, I'm happier with that because they saw what they did wrong, they adjusted it, and then they hit a good shot. So I try to keep them in a positive frame of mind. Just do what you know how to do, and good things will come from it.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, no, that that's a great

Advice for a PGA Professional

SPEAKER_01 15:53

piece of advice. And I'm gonna ask for another one. If if a hopefully soon to be PGA professional or someone in a PGM school is listening to this, what's one piece of advice you would give to an upcoming PGA professional?

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Big one, I believe, is well, I've got a couple. Time management. That is huge. Because an assistant, you're asked to do a lot more than say the head pro or the director of golf. I learned it from Mike Diastino. He's my mentor. I worked for him at Penfield Country Club. He just said, I would rather have you take your time, do it properly, and do it once than rush through it and have to correct it two or three times. So patience and time management. And another thing I think too, Nathan, is never stop learning. Yeah, there's every everything changes so rapidly in the golf industry. Never stop learning. Don't say, All right, I know all I need to know about that. Always ask questions. If you want to get into the lesson side, sit in on teachers that you know and take something away from them, how they teach, how they treat people, just things like that. Never stop learning, use your time management and pay attention to details.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Yeah. Now you mentioned the never stop learning. I was at the PGA show down in New Orlando this past January, and there seem to be some like seminars and stuff going around. So is it something as PJ professionals you have to do every year or so? Or how do you optional?

SPEAKER_00 17:30

You can pay to get in them. I don't like yeah, but I go into all the free ones that I can just to get different perspective from other PJ professionals on how they do things, how we may be able to better what we do, or maybe we're doing too much and we need to simplify. So it's always good to talk and listen as much as you can, more listening than talking.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

For sure. And it's it again, as a teacher, I'm still learning things. I'm sure you as a head religious every day, every person you teach is different. So it's always how can I give them the best lesson? And right, that's the your three points of advice were great for any profession, not even just being a head golf professional.

Rapid Fire Golf Questions

SPEAKER_01 18:19

And before I let you leave, we do a fun little segment here at the end called Fairey Rapid Fire Questions. So it's just a couple quick questions that you just need to answer quickly off the top of your head. Oh boy, it's not too hard, trust me.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Dream course to play. I've seen Augusta. I went down there with friends of mine, but I would have to say St.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Andrew. Oh, okay. So I've had two people say Augusta, one person say Cyprus, and uh St. Andrews would be pretty cool. Now, I've have you ever played golf over across over in Scotland or Ireland at all? I have not. All right, neither have I.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

First, first plan is I've seen all of the majors except the Open Championship. So I want to go over there for that, and I want to experience a rider cover in Europe.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Pretty cool bucket list goal things to do. Favorite encore snack? Nature Valley granola bar with peanut butter on it. Okay, yeah, yeah. I know those ones. Yeah. Early morning tea time or a sunset tea time. Early morning.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yep. I'm up early, letting the dog out, so let's get at it. Makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Favorite club of the bag? Seven iron. Okay. That's I've had putter and driver. It's seven. Why is Sevenir?

SPEAKER_00 19:34

I use it to warm up to get my tempo, and I hit different shots, high, low, you know, a little draw, a little fade, this and that. And that seems to be the best club for me to keep my tempo throughout the day.

SPEAKER_01 19:49

Okay. Who would be in your dream for someone to play golf with?

unknown 19:53

Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

He's passed away, but Hubert Green, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicholas, and my uncle Greg McCullough. He's passed away as well.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

And the last one, your favorite golf movie. Gosh, gotta be gotta be Tin Cough. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

That's been the consensus in the people I've talked to. Yeah, because I've seen it, I've been around people when he drops all the balls in the water. I've done it myself. Yeah. So it's like that's the most relicable. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

Robert, I really appreciate you hopping on. I know, like we said, head golf pros are very busy and especially getting ready for the season. So I do thank you for coming on. I think the listeners are going to get a pretty cool perspective. And your advice that you gave to future PGA professionals, I think they can definitely take and hopefully learn from it and definitely have a good career in this industry. Thank you, Nathan. It's been fun. I really appreciate it. Let me stop recording.