Two Worlds, One Calling

What do you call a pastor who also runs a business? Bi-vocational sounds clinical. Marketplace minister sounds like a conference theme. Tentmaker is biblical but feels ancient. The truth is, there's no clean label for the leader who carries both a congregation and a career and that's exactly the problem this podcast exists to solve.

In this debut episode, we lay the foundation for everything Season 1 will explore. What is the 40/40 life, really? Where did it come from biblically? Why is it growing? And why does the church desperately need leaders who refuse to stay in one lane?

If you've ever felt like you were cheating your church by working, or cheating your work by pastoring this episode is where that guilt starts to unravel.

Welcome to the 40/40 Pastor's Podcast. You've been waiting for this room. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

It was a Wednesday evening. Classes were done, 5 o'clock, and we are now heading over to the auditorium for a presentation that the president of the college wanted all the administrators to be a part of. I was a dean at the time, and I had no problem going to the auditorium and being a part of the event. My problem was once I got there, I'm not really able to focus on the event because I'm looking at my watch, knowing that on a Wednesday night, I've got Bible study at 7.30. My church is 30 minutes from the college. And if this program doesn't end on time at 7 o'clock, I'm going to be behind time. Well, as fate would have it, the program went all the way up to 725. So what did I do? Thank God for technology. I get in my car, and on my way to church, I'm able to start virtual Bible study. But while I'm doing this, my mind is going back and forth, and I'm feeling the tension between being called to my church, but also being called to the college as one of the leaders. If you're in a position where you've ever felt that kind of tension, where you are in ministry, but you also have a space and a place in the marketplace, this is the podcast just for you. Nobody created one for us, so we're creating our own. My name is Arthur J. James, and I want to welcome you to the 4040 Pastor Podcast. Thank you for being here for episode one. If you found this show, then you already know the life that I'm describing. I mean, you preach on Sunday, but then you're in all day meetings on Monday at your job. On Tuesdays, you're meeting dealing with the vision for your department in the corporate space, but then Tuesday night, perhaps you're meeting with a husband and wife from your church who's trying to figure out how to stay together. Wednesda shows up and you're dealing with a board meeting at the corporation. Wednesday night, though, you're getting ready to teach Bible study. Thursday morning shows up and you're right there dealing with HR over a staffing issue in your area of expertise. But then Thursday evening comes and you're back at the church meeting with the praise team and/or choir and the band because there's been a disagreement in that department. And we won't even talk about Friday and Saturday, especially if you've not gotten your sermon ready or your message manuscript prepared, and you know that tension between having everything ready and still believing God for a fresh word. This is the life that many who are in this space live. The challenge, though, is that there's not a resource dedicated just for us. If you've gone to seminary, perhaps they didn't teach you about payroll, or if you went to business school, they probably didn't teach you about how to counsel a family member that's come to your church who's lost a loved one. Maybe they didn't even teach you how to put together a full-blown service. And we won't even talk about the challenges that come with just the pressure that's in the position that you're in in ministry and the marketplace. And so even if you watch podcasts for pastors, many of them, in my experience, I found that they believe most of us are fully funded and we've already made a decision to be, quote unquote, full-time in the ministry or quote unquote full-time in business. That's where this show is different. The 40-40 Pastor Podcast exists for pastors and church leaders just like you, those who know and live at the intersection and work at the intersection between ministry and the marketplace, who spend roughly half their time in ministry and half their time in business, whether by calling or necessity or a holy combination of both. We want you to understand that in this first season, we're gonna uncover everything tied to this whole Bible life, this 40-40 life, the life where we begin to have ourselves found in both worlds. In this time, we'll we'll uncover everything. In this first season, we'll look at everything from the calendar to the calling to the cash to the crisis to the triumph to the tragedy, to the fruitfulness that can happen when you live and work in both worlds and you do it well, like I know you are. In this first episode, we're going to answer three questions as we start at the beginning. Question number one, we'll answer this question: what is the 40-40 life and calling? Question number two, where did it come from? And question number three, how can we live it without guilt? Let's jump in. I want to start at the beginning with the Bible, speaking to the fact that when we look at examples that we're given, that the 40-40 life is not a compromise, but it historically shows us what has happened in the early church that many times we forget. Take the Apostle Paul, for example. We know that in Acts 18. And as a tent maker, he worked hard day and night. Uh you find that sentiment again in both 1 Thessalonians and 2 Thessalonians, where he said, I worked hard day and night so as not to be a burden on the church. And he had every right to receive from the church, and we know that he did, but it wasn't everything that he received. Why am I bringing this up? I'm bringing this up because I think for too many of us throughout the years, we believe that if we're in both worlds, ministry and the marketplace, then we're not as committed. That if we don't choose to follow one versus the other, then somehow we're compromising because we're not fully in and we're not fully funded by the ministry. I think it wasn't just the Apostle Paul's uh necessity to be in the ministry and also in the marketplace, but I believe it was part of his ministry strategy because it gave him an advantage to be able to understand what people went through as they worked. Matter of fact, he was the same one that would say in the Word of God as well that if you don't work, you don't eat. He didn't just understood it, he lived it. And so it's important for me that the 40-40 pastors know that there's nothing wrong with being called to the full-time, quote-unquote full-time ministry if that's where God has you. But if you're not able to be there, or if that's not your calling, you have a unique calling being right where you are in ministry, but also in the marketplace. They both can be a calling and coexist. Take even Jesus Himself back when you go even further in history, and Jesus of Nazareth, who the first 30 part 30 years of his life spent a great deal of time as a craftsman. And then the last three years, we know, fully focused on his purpose for coming, to die, so that he could be raised to life, so that we could live. But he too had a space in both worlds. Uh, not only there, but Old Testament, take for example, Nehemiah. Nehemiah was the governor of the city. And not only that, but he led massive construction projects and mobilized people to build the wall, and at the same time led one of the most spiritual reconnections with God and his people that we see in the Bible. So don't let anyone make you feel less than because you're you're living and I'm living the 40-40 life. Nothing against anyone who's quote unquote in full-time, fully funded ministry. But I've learned in my own experience that when God allows us to go to work in the marketplace, we learn and experience some of the pain points that our people experience in a totally different realm as if we were separated and divide the spiritual or the sacred and the secular. It's both and and not just one or. So I want to encourage you to understand that the 40-40 life is a life that we can live fulfilled on both sides. It was not until I experienced the ministry that God had me do in the marketplace that I began to see the difference that I could make, not just as a pastor, but as a professor at a non-Christian school. I would start my classes at the beginning of each semester telling the students that I'm teaching here as your professor, but I also serve as a pastor in my local church. Now they don't pay me to preach, so I'm not going to preach to you right here. We're going to learn about management. But if you ever have questions, feel free to come by my office or email me, whatever the case might be. And I will tell you, there were through the years individuals who took me up on that, and not just the students, even other professors and other people in the management space when I managed hotels. People, when you when they see Christ in you, it gives you an opportunity to pray for them when they're going through or when there's a loss of life in the family. I've been an unofficial chaplain in many corporations I've been a part of. And I'm saying this to say to you: just because the 40-40 pastor is not spending his whole week in ministry alone does not mean that there's not ministry on his his or her path. There's countless opportunities that allows us to connect with people who may come to our churches as a result of us being in their market space. So don't let anyone minimize your method and minimize your calling being a 40-40 pastor or a 40-40 church leader. There is tremendous benefit that comes when we understand that God can have us there on purpose and we can be the hands and feet of Christ in the marketplace, just as we can be in the church. There's more ministry that takes place, not just inside the walls of a church, but inside the walls of corporations. As a matter of fact, I've spent time with another believer who owned a restaurant. We served on the board at the chamber together. And because his people worked on Sundays, they couldn't come to church. We had a creative, innovative idea. He asked me to come to the restaurant. And before I came to our church, I would go to the restaurant and begin to teach Bible study. It wasn't forced, but open to anyone who wanted to come over and hear what God had for me to share. And I'm telling you that perhaps there are some opportunities that many times we miss because we feel like there should be a divide between rather the sacred and the secular. And I believe there needs to be a space for the spiritual in the secular spaces. And perhaps God has called you and I to be in those spaces to make a difference. And so we know biblically that the 40-40 life was prevalent in the Apostle Paul, in Nehemiah, in Jesus, and others that we've seen through. So understand that this is not a new concept, but perhaps a concept that we've forgotten about that we can refocus on at this modern day and time. So who is the 40-40 pastor today? The 40-40 pastor today is the young man who is working as a landscape company owner. He does his landscaping business Monday through Thursday, and he pastors to church on the weekend. He's doing this because he has a new church, starting a church from scratch, no building, but a belief that God's gonna make a way. She's a bivocational 40-40 pastor because she's faithful. The 40-40 pastor today is the attorney who tries cases through the week and then witnesses and preaches on the weekend. Not because he or she has to, but because they feel called to. It's the entrepreneur who will use their profits to plan a church when there are other churches around, but not like the one God gave them the vision for. The 40-40 pastor today comes in all shapes and sizes. It's the social media expert, influencer, who is on social media during the day and night, but when you see them on Sundays, they're preaching. And sometimes it's not even from the church. There are virtual churches led by vocational 40-40 pastors. I want you to know we see you. We come in all shapes and sizes as God calls and as God sees necessary for this season in which we're in. 40-40 pastors are not less than, they just have a different path. It's not new, it's not a new concept. It's not that we've never seen folks in these roles before. It's that we've never had the platform or the podcast until now. We want to come alongside of you, 40-40 pastors, that we let you know that we see you and also let you know that God sees you. And you don't have to choose between one or the other, but you can uh flourish on the path you're on as a bivocational 40-40 pastor. I want to use this last teaching segment today on naming three lies 40-40 pastors tend to tell ourselves and also provide a reframe for each. Because before we can talk strategy, we need to talk about the stories we tend to tell ourselves. Line number one real pastors go full-time. For many, it's the pressure of perceiving yourself as being less than because you're not in what many consider full-time ministry because of your marketplace position. I want you to know that you're full-time in both, and when you're able to be a 40-40 pastor, it's not about necessarily giving up one. It's about being where God has you and giving your all while you're there. As a matter of fact, uh Christian Post, Lee Christian Post did a report in uh June of 2025, and they reported that nearly half of all evangelical pastors are bivocational. So real pastors are not just pastors who are in ministry full time, but it's both ministry and marketplace. So don't think or perceive or believe the lie that you're not a real pastor if you're not full time. God knows where we all are in our situations, and particularly as it relates to us taking care of our families and responsibilities. As a matter of fact, the Bible teaches us that if we don't take care of our families, we're less than unbelievers. So don't believe the lie that going full-time makes you a real pastor. You just have a different place rather than space to do ministry as a 40-40 pastor. Uh line number two, I'm short-changing my people. It's very you have to be very mindful that you don't uh believe that second lie as well, because it can be very uh much a weight on your heart and your mind to want to be more uh with the people, being at everything. And even as a quote-unquote full-time pastor, our job according to Ephesians 4 12 is to, 11 go and 12, is to equip the saints to do the work of ministry. What typically tends to happen is whether you're bivocational 40-40 pastor or full-time quote-unquote pastor, if we don't develop the right structure and systems, we can burn out even being full-time or being a 40-40 pastor. So it's not just shortchanging. Don't, don't, I don't, I don't want you to think of it that way simply because being in the marketplace gives you the connection that you understand the world, where you rather understand the world that the people that you and I get the privilege of pastoring are in. It makes us more sensitive to the needs and the pain points of the people that sit in the pews when we're in the same places that they're in from a market perspective. It also gives you relevant illustration, relevant context to see where the people are and providing that same faith that you need to make it through the marketplace, I promise you, it gives you a different level of connection with those who know that you're in that same world as well. So that's line number two. And then line number three that we tend to tell ourselves as 40-40 pastors is that I'll quit as soon as I can afford to. Don't think for one moment that God can't afford you if he's called you to do ministry just at the church. Don't run after it if it is not his assignment for your life. Here's what I'm saying. I'm saying that being a 40-40 pastor and being in the marketplace is not something that you just get out of if God has assigned you to it. It could be that God has you an assignment there, yes, for a season. Many of you watching, you will have a season where you will shift from being a 40-40 pastor to being in more mainstream full-time ministry, where the ministry supports you to take care of your family and supports you to where you don't necessarily have to work outside of the church or the ministry. And that's good. I honor that if God has that for you. But not everyone has that call. Not everyone, not everyone experiences that. As I mentioned, you see nearly half of the evangelical churches uh are bivocational. And as a matter of fact, the trend is moving toward more bivocational pastors as we're seeing the shifts, especially since COVID has taken place, to where churches have gone through a dramatic shift. And so don't believe that you necessarily have to leave when you can quote unquote afford to. Don't despise that. As a matter of fact, this this is this is what this podcast and this uh season, this first season in particular, is designed to do is to help you, and I would Strategies and uh tactics and tips and tools to not run from it or get out of it, but to do ministry and the marketplace more effectively, more strategically, so that as we do so we can remain fulfilled in ministry and life as a 4040 pastor. Before I let you go, I want to say thank you for being a part of the first episode of the 40-40 pastor podcast. I also want to let you know that I see you and God sees you. Your calling and your God is not split. The same God who called you to the pulpit is the same God who called you to the marketplace because he knew you had the creativity and the capacity as well as the clarity to be able to lead in multiple spaces. So don't you're not less than, again, remember that God is not split in his calling. He's a singular God who has a call on your life. And I believe that the 4040 Pastor Podcast will help you lead, love, and live a life fulfilled in Bivocational Ministry. That being shared, please subscribe, follow, and like so that you'll be ready for the next episode in the rest of this season. I'm excited about special guests coming, starting with episode two, and also looking at topics that we want to uh discuss with you and strategize around avoiding burnout, dealing with finding help and structure and strategy in the bivocational space, and so much more. So I look forward to sharing more with you as we go further as 4040 pastors. Make it a great one, and Lord willing, we'll see you next time.