Creation VS Evolution

In this episode of The Testimony Table Podcast, Matt and Brandon dive into one of the biggest debates of our time: Creation vs. Evolution.

We examine some of the questions that many people wrestle with when it comes to evolutionary theory. How could both male and female humans evolve at the same time and in the same place in order to reproduce? How did life originate in the first place? Does the complexity and design we see in nature point to a Creator?

Join us as we discuss scientific observations, biblical perspectives, and the questions that have led many people to believe that the universe and all life were intentionally designed by God. Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or simply curious, this conversation is sure to challenge you to think deeper about where we came from and why we’re here.

Real stories. Real struggles. Real miracles.

Available on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and all major podcast platforms.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

What's up everyone? Welcome to the Testimony Table Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

The podcast where it's real stories, real struggles, and real miracles. How everyday people share how Jesus has changed their lives forever. And I'm Brandon, and we're both your hosts, and we're seriously glad you're here today.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

This show is all about giving God the glory, telling the truth, and bringing hope to people who need it most.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

In our show, we can lean heavy into a theme of recovery, because Jesus doesn't just forgive, He restores, He heals, He delivers, He can pull you out of anything.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Addiction, depression, anxiety, brokenness, and He can turn the mess into a message, and the pain and a purpose.

SPEAKER_02 0:50

We believe Jesus is still moving today, and testimonies still have power.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

And we are here to fulfill the mission He gave us, the Great Commission, to go, to tell, and to make disciples. So pull up a seat, lean in, and get ready. Because your faith is about to become stronger than you ever thought possible.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Alright, let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I already changed it when I got it. Alright, man. Here we are.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Alright. Uh can I open in prayer?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

I sure can.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Heavenly Father, thank you for this day, Lord. Thank you for this podcast, Lord, and we dedicate it to you, Lord. To bring glory to your name. Just use Matt and I to further your kingdom, Lord. And we just thank you for what you did on the cross for us, Lord. We can't thank you enough. Bless his time, Lord. Use our words to reach somebody to further your kingdom, Lord. We love you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen. Amen. Alright, man. Creation versus evolution.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yeah, buddy.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

It's not much of a battle, but in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Let's just talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Yeah. Let's do it. So um obviously for the listeners, we're both Christians, so we believe God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Now, you know, the debate on whether those are 24 hour days or long periods of time. You know, I I personally believe it was 24 hour days. But there, you know, there's people that say, well, you know, the sun wasn't even created until day four, I believe. It could have been millions of years, the first days, things like that. But I don't know. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Well, you know, I never really had much of an opinion on it until we started speaking of it. And the one thing that really jumped out to me that you said to me that really sparked kind of like okay. Because in a world that I lived in for a lot of years before really seeking out Christianity harder was there's science in our world and there's religion in our world, not ever really putting much thought into how much those things butt head with the top intelligent people of our societies, you know, that are well-versed in religion versus the ones that are well versed in science, you know. So I never really thought of it as competing forces. I just thought it was part of my existence on earth. So when we spoke of it and you said, you know, how does evolution make sense if it evolved over millions and millions of years? How did a species evolve, you know, gender at the exact this was the one thing, and it wasn't a huge point that you made. It was just like, how did males and females of one species evolve and happen upon over a million years evolve at the same sexual maturity to be able to recreate that species and and evolve into what they are? Over millions and millions of years, you think that one species that started as a microorganism came together and both happened to hit sexual maturity where they were able to breed and continue that that stuck out to me so hard in such a small conversation. It's like the first thing he said, and I'm like, you know, that is kind of wild if it came from a speck of nothingness and evolved and evolved and evolved and evolved, and it took millions of years to do, they just happened to be in the same place at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Because let's say, okay, I'll believe you that they both evolved at the same time, but what if they and this, you know, I listened to Dr. Kent Hovind, and he's the one that kind of said these things, and so I just repeated what he was saying, but he was like, What if they evolved 50 miles apart from each other and and never knew that each other existed?

SPEAKER_01 6:12

Yeah, how would they fifty miles when you're talking you're just roaming on foot?

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Yeah. So there's just way too many variables to to say that as complex as our reproductive organs are, that that evolved from primordial soup over millions of years. Not to mention also the earth, you know, had to have evolved right along with them for there to be vegetation because it we still have to breathe, right? So there has to be plants and vegetation that gives oxygen. Right. So you're you're also saying that is just you know, evolution saying that's just a coincidence, you know. It just I don't believe that any logical thinker can honestly not think that there's intelligent design.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

It there's just in us speaking on it, and then obviously preparing to speak about it today, reading a little bit more on what some of both sides say, because to be fair, there's highly intelligent people that's way above what my realm of thinking could be that has based their lives to argue their point, and they have a right to argue their point, but I think a lot comes from just arrogance as human beings that you just that that is part of what we've evolved to to think that our mind can have the understanding of existence and say definitively that it came from this or that. You know, you are a very intelligent person, but the world is a very complex thing. So to to give yourself so much credit to say, hey, I you know, this is what it is, and you're dumb if you think otherwise, and for the other side to say, well, this is what it is, because obviously there's you know there's faith required on both sides, right? You you have to you have to understand and to say that you completely understand one and completely say the other is bogus when there's intelligent people on both sides speaking their points, and when you and I've never done it until recently, you know, we spoke about it months ago, and then when we was like, hey, what what can we do for an episode? And he was like, How about evolution versus creation? Okay, well, let me try to get my mind wrapped a little bit around what people are saying on both sides, and it's interesting, it's a it's a fun topic to get into and learn about. So if anybody out there feels that they know everything about the one thing, then start trying to learn everything about the other thing, and then find a way to understand that there's arguments that could support both, but then like you just said, faith comes into play on whichever side you choose to be on, and then ask yourself why are you choosing to shut your mind to the other side? So because there's science and there's religion. And if you're if you have any faith in your in your body or your or your soul at all, allow it to absorb everything. Because I think in our world, more so than just this topic, closing our minds to what other people's beliefs are is very damaging and very hurtful to us as a society of getting along with each other. So it's been really cool to to kind of read and learn something that I never really put much thought into.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Yeah, it I love it. It's like you said, very fascinating. And you know, you you have the very intelligent scientific community, and and that's great, and I think it's I like to use science to to help prove creation, in my opinion. And um, there's something called Pascal's Wager. Have you ever heard of that? I haven't. It's it's really cool. Um, it was presented by Blaise Pascal. He's he's a uh a well well-known scientist um from the 1600s. And so I'm just gonna read what what Pascal's wager is. It uh it says Pascal contends that a rational person should adopt a lifestyle consistent with the existence of God and should strive to believe in God. The reasoning for this stance involves the potential outcomes. If God does not exist, the believer incurs only finite losses, potentially sacrificing certain pleasures and luxuries. If God does exist, the believer stands to gain immeasurable as re immeasurable as represented, for example, by an eternity in heaven. So to put it in you know more understanding terms, I guess, you know, it makes more sense to believe in God because you stand to gain eternity with in heaven with God, versus if you choose to not believe in God and live as your own God, basically, you could end up in hell. So it just logically makes from a scientific logical standpoint, it makes more sense to believe in God. That's basically what he's saying.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

And you know, when I've I've heard that before, I guess I just didn't know what the name of it was, yeah. And hearing that, and if you if you broke it down to a a standard level of the things in life that we have, it's it's kind of like, you know, not to be so like against the grain, but like if you had a hundred dollars standing in front of you on a table, and someone said, You can walk through this door, there's gonna be $75 to a million dollars. Your lowest gain is gonna be $75, your biggest gain is gonna be a million dollars. You can walk through that door, or you can pick up his hundred dollar bill and just walk away. Why wouldn't you walk through the door? Yeah, because maybe you lose $25, or maybe you gain a million, yeah, minus a hundred. You know, like it's not that hard of a choice when it's things that you really want, but faith is about trusting in things that you don't know that you need until you start following and feel what it does to your heart. You know, it's it's been such an amazing thing to to put that faith there and to pray and to feel, you know, we spoke, and I'm just gonna go there, but just because last night I went to the Passion of the Christ. It was a play put on by a local church up in the community my brother's from. And I've never seen the movie Passion of the Christ. I've obviously read the Bible that it was based off of, but to get that visual interpretation of what I've read was so powerful. Yeah. And when the pastor came out when it was over and he spoke, and he said, You know, if you allow the Holy Spirit into your heart, there's there's you will feel, and he was speaking, and it's just so true. And all I sat there and thought after watching this amazing production by these local, this local church, it was unbelievably good. And we spoke. We'll we'll definitely go back. It's an annual thing. It it's they do such a great job. But it was uh it's just when I hear him say that, it's like, man, he's talking to this auditorium that has, you know, maybe 200 people, 300 people. I don't I don't know. It's it was big, it wasn't huge. I mean, probably a couple hundred at least, and he's telling them like you know, and I don't I'm sure there was a people that sat in there to see the production that didn't understand what he's saying. I know I know there was a lot of people in there that did. And uh, if I went a few years ago, I might not have understood what he was saying. But when you open that up, it it's worth the faith. It's worth saying, okay, you know, this if you believe in one miraculous thing, then you have to believe in any miraculous thing.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

And absolutely, and and atheists choose to believe in science, right? But I would say scientism or pseudoscience, a lot of it. But you know, Wesley Huff says he said this, he said, you know, they'll deny the the virgin birth, but believe in the virgin birth of the universe. You believe that a finite thing the size of the head of a pen exploded into what created the entire universe. And even even the explosion had to have been a perfect explosion that would allow matter to coalesce into planets. Because if you think of an explosion, right, it it's gonna go out away from itself and it's never gonna collide. So the explosion would have had to have been like a a weird type of explosion to where things were allowed to collide and and coalesced into planets and stuff. So even that is I mean, you believe in a miracle, and you have to have faith no matter what, if you believe in evolution. But there was a thought that I had um that I think is interesting and it's it's really simple. It's the fact that everybody on earth is faced with this question where did we come from? And is there a God? I think the fact that we're all faced with that is proof that there is a God. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 17:36

I mean, I'm I'm following I mean I know I think I know what you're you're saying. Like you you would have to to have to wonder and not have a definitive answer kind of speaks for itself, you know. It's like, well, nothing really makes sense about where we came from or how we exist. I mean, at my level of a blue-collar worker that's never, you know, put my life's dedication into to being uh a scholar in either form that we're speaking of. But yeah, the fact that it's a question and not an answer says that either side is right there for the taking. It's just what you choose to have faith in. Do you choose to have faith in science? Do you choose to have faith in a higher power?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

And well, I feel like evolution is all about efficiency, right? We've evolved, uh there's been mistakes over millions or billions of years. Is it efficient to to have this thought that we all have? I mean So I I've got a quote here from C.S. Lewis, it's very interesting. Um C.S. Lewis is just a brilliant man. He um, you know, obviously wrote the Narnia books and stuff. Um, but he said, if there's no intelligence behind the universe, no one designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen for physical or chemical reasons to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me as a byproduct the sensation I call thought. It's like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. It's like an atheist can't even if they believe in evolution, they can't even trust their own thoughts, you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, yeah. That was it, that was another thing that I had seen. I like I said, I don't want to make myself sound too intelligent on uh what I read, you know, because I I guess in our technological world, it's easy to get the opinions in video format of what it is. But anyway, yeah, I seen that. It's like if everything is just science, then you know, feelings, you know, thoughts, nothing is nothing is exact. It's all just happened. It's all maybe, maybe you'll think this at this point. Well, when I'm watching a movie, and in my mind, maybe sometimes you know, a little ADHD jumps out there, and and my mind does go nut. But most of the time when you're wanting to consciously think of something, you consciously think of it. It's not just happens to say, well, it it's just so infinite, man. And and the things, and I wish that I had a a quicker uh way of saying what I but it was clicking as I was listening and as I was some reading, just not as much as listening, but some reading, you know, it it just it all makes sense to say it's just as likely to have faith in this as the people that choose to not have faith in Christ and God and the Holy Spirit. It's you can you can argue your points. I mean, we're in a society now where there's highly intelligent people that argue men are women, and I don't want to go there, but I'm just anyone can sound intelligent with their argument if you're intelligent enough to be able to put the words together. It's all brain games. You know, because there's intelligent people that listen to these Harvard graduates that are saying, Yeah, you know, well it's just how you it's like but when you get down and you you swipe away all the fancy wording and the way that it's spoken and you just listen to what their argument is, then you can say, Well, that's crazy. Or or you know, I I mean, I don't want to be insulting to anyone, but I mean that's just nonsense. You're saying it very intelligently. Right. And if if you just if you left all the the stuff caked around it, you could say, Man, that's a good point. But when you say, Well, biologically, that's impossible, you know, and and it's like anyone can say anything intelligently. Yeah. And these two things, I think there are a lot of intelligence spoken on both sides, from what I've read. And I give credit to the people that have that brain power to dig in deep and deep and and and try to support their beliefs. But why why discard the other as if it's trash? Why discard the other as if it's an impossibility, as if your reasoning is more possible? Because on the other side, there's people digging and finding ways to prove that to an extent what their beliefs are is real. So if we if you just existed with the facts that there are that science does help our world evolve as a society, but as a being, humans, evolution really, and what I've read preparing for for this, it it's it's very, very much harder to believe that evolved over a billion years than it is to believe that creation. There's a lot of amazing things on both sides, but I don't I don't know. Like I said, it's but what you know I couldn't sit in a room with some with a scientist, with a doctorate, and argue with them. But there's people, there's there's doctorates sitting in rooms convincing people of nonsense things in our world right now that would have an answer, and then I would just get tongue-tied and I would just have to say, all right, man.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Well, yeah, but really it comes down to God has proven himself to you because of how you feel, right? Inside. Right. And nobody can take that away from you, no matter how intelligent they are, and how fancy of the words they use to try to get you to not believe in God. And um, you know, some of the most brilliant minds to ever live. Einstein was a Christian, Isaac Newton was a Christian. Um a current brilliant mind is uh Dr. Michael Gillen. He has an amazing podcast called Science Plus God. I've listened to a lot of his stuff. That'd be cool to get him on one day if we could. But um he talks about you know, people will say, Well, I don't believe in anything that I can't see or can't be scientifically proven. And it's like, really? You're breathing, aren't you? Can you can you see the air that you're breathing? But you believe it's there, right? And also even deeper, like dark matter makes up 90% of our universe, they say. But it's never been detected, never been discovered. It's just there to make the math work. And then also there's you know, people like you said, much smarter than you or I are scientists about this, but you know, I've done a fair amount of research on it, and it's interesting how planets if it was a big bang that created the universe there's a a pretty prominent school of thought that says everything would have to rotate in the same direction. All the planets. They would all have to rotate in the same direction, but we don't see that. And it's just more proof to me of a divine creator, and yes, it cre it it requires faith.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

But what about our existence doesn't?

SPEAKER_02 26:53

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

No matter how you feel.

SPEAKER_02 26:55

Yeah, and I believe that comes back down to Pascal's wager. You know, if you have all these questions, logically, why not just believe in God and go down that path because you know that there's people that have set out to disprove the existence of Jesus and then then they become Christians.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

That's the problem with it is that you are just completely and that's when I did the research, you know, to to try to prepare myself a little bit for the conversation that I kind of read both sides. Like, why? If you are so intelligent and you have the ability to dig so deep because your brain is strong enough and you are an intelligent human being, and you're able to have dug so far into this side of it to agree, and I don't I don't care. I don't believe that the people that speak atheists and and totally, like you said, the brilliant minds that were Christians as well. That's probably because they took their brain power and learned about both and and learned to believe and accept that both are very prevalent in our society and would be beneficial in our society. Science and religion is a great component to help us evolve as society, but understanding what we are as humans and the feelings that we have, and you know, the anger and and just happiness. That's all stuff that's individually us. There's no way that we evolve, but yet our brains work so different, and that's what makes the world beautiful is that there's so many different types of beings, personalities, physical beings. You know, you got the big, crazy, tough guy, you got the little guy, you got the medium guy, you got the fat guy and the skinny guy, and we're all our own people and we have our own thoughts. That's that's a brilliant thing. The the idea that you could be so smart to dig so deep into science, but refuse to even attempt to dig halfway through Christianity or religion and just and just throw it aside like it's nonsense. Like, why not you were clearly blessed with a very powerful brain, and you're using it to speak out against who created you.

unknown 29:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Like you have a special gift, and you and you're you're not giving credit where it's due by not even attempting to to feel that, you know, or or dig into it and learn it.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

And and I I I like to get to the root, and I I love the the human brain and how we can just justify and convince ourselves. You know, it seems like um atheists just don't like the way religion or God is presented to them, you know. When it comes down to it, you know, especially let's focus on the Bible, you know, the way God intends us to live, it goes against what you what a normal human or flesh wants to do. And that's how I th I know that it is God's word, because if it was written by humans, I mean it was written by humans but inspired by God, it wouldn't conflict with what our flesh desires, you know. That cube's not on, dude. Oh man. Squirrel. Yeah. A D D.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yeah, yeah. Let me just let me let me solve that for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yeah, man. Thank you. But yeah, at the end of the day, I I believe you just deny God because you don't like how He's been presented to you. You know, I know people are gonna say, no, no, that's not right, but yeah, that's what I believe, and that's I think in your heart of hearts, deep down that's what atheists think.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Well, you know, and I I don't I don't disagree with with that thought. You know, would would Christianity be a lot more supported and a lot more if it meant that you could do everything that your brain that that you know there's a there's a lot of things uh but I found and we spoke about it before it started, I found that you know walking through life with Jesus in my heart has been way easier than walking through life with drugs in my blood, you know. You can say there there's fun things about partying and and going out and drinking and you know, but there's my Friday night consisted of me and my wife meeting up with my brother and his family and going into a church and watching a play put on it about what Jesus did for you and everything. Oh my goodness. It was it was just a great night, man. And one of the one of the coolest things, you know, I love to go to baseball games. I'm a big baseball fan, I'm a big football fan. I I love the things I there's nothing in this world that you can do as a Christian and trying to follow, you know, I don't I don't have a perfect language. I mean, I swear, and I've I've worked on it, and we spoke about it before, you know, it's like, man, it's a little bit tougher than I thought just to live. You know, I it it's just who I am as a person and things that, you know, if you have things that you're working on to become a better person and a person that can relate and have a sh and be a shoulder for anybody that wants to talk to you, whether it be someone that's never walked a day in the shoes that you've walked, or whether it be someone that's in a dark hole walking, why would you why would you close your heart to that? Why would you say just stop with that? That's not it's just as possible as anything that science can do, because no science, no drug, no drink, no food that I've ever put in my body has lifted the weight off of my feet the way letting Jesus into my heart has. And that's honestly speaking, that that has been something that I've noticed as being someone that was older and becoming a father for the first time, scared to death of my energy. How am I gonna keep up with a kid? You know? Yeah. And it was something that I struggled with. And, you know, finding that lightness and that understanding has just been it's been everything to to the way that I live my day-to-day life. I still say things that I probably shouldn't say just in for the sake of humor or s or something, you know. I try not to ever disrespect another human. I try not to be, you know, but the reality is, is I should work on that, but I am, and I'll continue to, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

And that's and that's that's what Jesus does, man. He creates He makes you a new creation, He works inside of you on your heart and changes you. And to get scientific on this, isn't this amazing? Uh laminin is a protein that literally holds all of our atoms together. It's like the glue of our body to you know, for lack of a better explanation. But get this the laminin protein is in the shape of a cross.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:56

Yeah. I mean there there's a there's a prime example of science and religion. What became it's I just believe in my heart that there's obviously science is a huge part of our society. Obviously, Western medicine has done in prolonged lives to a great extent. And I respect every person that's in a lab working to try to keep learning new things about our world that we can use with what we have here. I think it's brilliant. I think it's great. I think it's way above my mental capacity to understand what these people are doing. And but like you said, you know, the the Christianity and understanding what Christ did and understanding that those things happened at those times for us as humanity. And, you know, the creation that gave free will is something that I think people just they're using. What it you just have to be, and I don't mean disrespect, but it's it's it's closed-minded to just there's lots of questions. I have as a Christian, I have lots of questions. As I'm reading through the Bible for the first time, from front to back, it's left me with a lot, we've discussed it, you know. It's not wrong as a Christian, it's it's not bad to to question the things that you're reading as a Christian. As is it bad if you read something in science that you don't understand and you have to read further and read. I mean, that's what we do as humans to get an understanding of what's what. So why I would never throw a scientist into a garbage can and think any of the science is any if you've done science your whole life and you've only contributed to our society with one of the things that you've learned, then you've contributed to our society, and that's worth uplifting and that's worth being proud of. So I don't think that scientists should just throw religion or Christianity, you know, creation into the garbage can because I don't think any human being, no matter how intelligent you are, can understand what creation is, how it was technically done. I I just don't think that a human brain is capable of understanding that. And there's a lot of things that my human brain isn't capable of understanding, and I wouldn't ever be so arrogant to say because I don't understand it, it can't be.

SPEAKER_02 38:57

And and the Bible talks about that in Isaiah chapter 55, verses 8 and 9, it says, For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. You know, we're created in the image of God. We we are not God, we're far from it. There's no way we're ever gonna understand everything about creation, you know, the creator of the heavens and the earth, the most intelligent being, for the lack of a proper word for God, entity, whatever you want to call him, we we can never completely understand that. And that's you know, again, you want to put your faith in a human, what science tells you, because science is in the business of disproving science. I'll tell you that. How many times do you have something said, and then 10 years later science is like, oh, we discovered that that's not true.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

It's happening over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yeah, so you put your faith in something that is constantly wrong sometimes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

Or dare you say, evolving, you know. It's it's you that's what I mean. At the time that those things were spoken of, you know, you're supposed to drink as much milk and all the milk that you can drink, it's gonna strengthen your body, it's gonna do all. And now when when my kid was born, they're like, You gotta monitor only do so much milk. Yeah. Because it it can cause uh uh, you know, it's like what? When I was a kid, all my mom wanted to do was give me glasses of milk to drink because that was you know, so but the people of the time that came up with that, published that and put that out for us as a society to to use as a as a learning tool were the top brains of their time. Well, it's changed, it's ever changing, and the brain continues to grow. So, how can you be so certain of something and so dismissive of something else? Because the reality is, and like you said earlier, the fact that there's that question mark after where'd we come from, not this is where we came from. Yeah, that means that there's no certainties in one or the other. But faith is the is the difference. Faith can go out and out. It don't have to, you don't have to take your faith and put it all in science, and you don't have to take your faith and put it all in Christianity. You can just have faith in what our world is, and our world is science, and our world is religion. And to I I just sound like a br I know I keep saying it, you know, but it it's just it just doesn't make sense to put I mean it's almost bear with me, uh like I don't I don't know, you know, it's almost like racism, you know? Like, why do you why are there people in this world that hate somebody because of who they are? That makes no sense to me.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

It's indoctrination, it's learned.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

And and I on a on a different level, you know, to to love science and hate religion. It doesn't have anything to do with race, but it's still displaced hatred for no real apparent reason. Why, why would you be why would you dedicate your life to dogging religion? Why why would that be your life's mission to try to turn people away from something that's so beautiful? That to me is that's hatred that's doing that. There's in the world doesn't need hate.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Yeah, I've seen some atheists that are like that, you know. And it's it's yeah, it's mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_01 43:25

And and what I've watched, you know, it's so mind-blowing is the arrogance that almost drips off these people as they're speaking. Well, this guy says this. Oh my goodness, this is unbelievable. Like, really? Who are you? Yeah, who are you to say that? Yeah, you know, you're talking about someone that has just as much education as you and what they chose to learn about.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

You know, there's a lot of things that we read on both sides that just seem unbelievable. Faith is the is the divider, you're you know, it is chosen. Put your faith in the world, in everything that comes with it. Creation came with our world. We were created. Evolution is a theory. The Big Bang is a theory.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

And theories are not anything that you can hang your hat on and say definitively with 100% with 100% certainty. I can't say that we were created by God with 100% certainty. Obviously. I can't say we evolved.

SPEAKER_02 44:36

Well you can, but you can't prove it with a hundred percent of the city.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

I mean, I'm choosing to put my faith in creation because I felt I can say one hundred percent that God exists.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Jesus is, you know, Jesus came down. I I can say that with a hundred percent and certainty because that's what I know in my heart and my mind.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

And that's what you believe.

SPEAKER_02 44:59

But I cannot prove it to somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

No. As can evolution not be proven by anybody. So it all comes back to faith. What are you putting your faith in? And if you're choosing to put your faith in this, then then that's your free will.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

You're allowed to, but the people that are making their lives work to try to turn people away from Christ is just so absurd.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

And and you know, you know, I believe 100% that the devil uses science to distract people from Jesus. And I think it's interesting um you know, there's only one example I can think of, but there's there's several where, you know, the the Bible says that 666 is, you know, the mark of the beast. Mark of the Beast, the devil's number. And that calling card is left all over our society, and people don't want to believe it or or or even recognize it, but the tilt of the earth we're told is twenty-three point four degrees. And you know how degrees work, right? You know, we have ninety ninety degree angles and three hundred and sixty degrees full circle. Um you take ninety degrees minus twenty-three point four, you get sixty-six point six degrees. Um I think that's really interesting. You know, I'm sure you know people would say, no, that's just it's just coincidence, it's math, that's science. I think Satan leaves his calling card on a lot of things. Um and I just think that's crazy to me. And there's you know, the Bible kind of preaches this geocentric universe, and that's geocentric means the earth is the center of the universe, and everything revolves around the earth. That's the basic premise of what a geocentric universe is, and that's what was preached for you know hundreds of years, and then Copernicus came about and and he quote unquote discovered the heliocentric model, which is everything revolves around our sun. And I think that was you know, that was Satan trying to create a a system that's against the Bible. Um so I just I think that that's interesting. And um you know, people want to believe in evolution and like we talked about male and female evolving at the same time, and just also vegetation having to evolve at the same time for procreation and you know sustenance to live and breathe. Um and not to mention I I want to talk about the human eye real quick, and how the human eye is insanely complex. I I wish I could remember the name of this scientist, but the human eye he studied, and that's what made him believe in God, is because um if any one thing, any molecule or atom is off, your eyes won't work. Um but so the electromagnetic spectrum, that is what we consider visible light. The human eye, and this is crazy, is as complex as the human eye is, we can only see point zero zero thive percent of of the electromagnetic spectrum of what is visible light. So that's closer to nothing than anything. Yeah, I mean almost a hundred percent of what visible light is the electromagnetic spectrum, we can't even see it. So i if you don't think I mean to me that's evidence of a a spiritual realm that can be all around us that we just can't see, you know?

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Yeah, yeah. That I I that was something that I can't the human eye was something that said virtually impossible to have evolved. Yeah. There's there's there's not it like the there there's things that and the human eye stuck out to me because it was interesting, and and I remember reading the the guy's name that said it, but I can't it's not in front of me and I can't I can't remember it, but I read the same thing that you're speaking of. It it's virtually impossible, basically, is what it broke down as is to to be able to have evolved into what it is and and what its capabilities are, which in the overall spectrum, no pun intended, isn't isn't much, you know. Like it when you think what you're looking at, like if you was looking at point what what what was that number you gave?

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Point zero zero three five percent.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

Of a puzzle, you would have absolutely no idea what that puzzle not even a half of a percent was gonna be. I mean, you wouldn't you probably wouldn't even be able to determine the color of the one piece, the point zero zero three percent. So when you think of it like that, if you're looking at at a a picture that you can only see that much of, you would have absolutely no idea what you was looking at. Right. So do we even know what we're looking at?

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Yeah, yeah. 100 closer to 100% of what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

That's a pretty that's a pretty staggering. I didn't see that number about the human eye, and I haven't heard that before. Maybe uh other people have, maybe I'm really behind the eight ball on that, but that's that's wild. That's a that's a crazy number to say that I'm staring into space right now and I'm seeing the walls and I'm seeing the pictures and I'm seeing everything that's in front of me, and I think I'm seeing everything. My eyes are getting bad, but I you know, I don't think they're 0.033 bad, you know. So there's a lot of gazillion things right in front of my face that my eyes just can't detect. That's that's that's that's wild. I know you know it's it's been uh it's such a cool conversation, and I guess I would just like tell people, and there's gonna be them top-tier guys that could ever hear someone, you know, just a regular Joe sitting in front of a microphone talking to say, but I mean, just for for the other average Joes out there, if you have any questions, you know, just just it's we have the world at our fingertips at this point, you know. We have opinions from top minds of both sides. We got artificial intelligence that can that can give you arguments right in front of your face in real time, and you can spend today reading about this and tomorrow reading about that, and and just choose. Why why close your mind to the infinite possibilities of what our world is and where we came from? Because it's not we came from, it's where did we come from? Yeah, that's that's question mark means everything, and that means no one should be so arrogant to close their mind to the to any other possibility, and that's whether you're a Christian or you're whether you're an atheist.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Amen.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Grow your grow your understanding of the world, and if you have and you choose that way, then live that way. Don't make it your life's work to pull other people that may not be as intelligent as you with your intelligent words away from Christ, you know. Yeah. To to to actually make your life's mission to turn people away from Christ is the most unuseful, unneeded act in this world. Right there with murder, rape, and any other, you know, that anybody, any human with any soul can can understand as isn't right. To try to actively turn people away from Christ is something that no human that shouldn't be your mission in life, because there's no need for it. Christianity and opening your and letting Christ live in your heart is not detrimental to anybody in any way whatsoever.

SPEAKER_02 54:25

Absolutely, amen. And it I it really comes down to this. The Bible tells us in Ephesians 6, verse 12, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness, wickedness in high places. At the end of the day, we're in spiritual warfare, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, and I just proved to you through science that there's a whole world that you can't see. You can only see 0.0035%. 100% closer to 100% you can't see. I just think that's amazing. Like you you can't logically say there's not a spiritual a possible a possibility of a spiritual world all around you just based on science, you know? And I just I love that statistic, or if you want to call it that. Um and when you you get any even deeper into researching evolution, you know, they they say, well, you know, uh you know, carbon dating says that uh this rock is thirteen million years old. Well there's been tests done using carbon dating that prove that it's not reliable. So you know you can choose to believe in carbon dating, but I can find scientific experiments that disprove its its credibility.

SPEAKER_01 56:24

So that you know, and I think we're getting close, I think, to to just getting our conclusion and and wrapping up, but just that alone, like I think it's and and how does that form, you know, we get an equation, we say, okay, we know that this thing is a hundred years old. So if we take what we see and just put it into this equation with the difference between this rock and that rock, then it should accurately date. This is all way above my understanding. And I believe that there it you can probably get a range of accuracy, but when you're talking millions of years, yeah, there's no way. There's I you you might be able to have a small understanding, but nothing is absolute.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

100%. And I I just as we wrap up, I just have a few more things to talk about. Um, so a lot of the times that evolution uses is based off of what's called the geologic column. And the geologic column is basically just levels of geology, right? That you know, it took millions of years to create this level, millions of this level, this level, this level. And I think it's hilarious to me actually, because I didn't get a bunch of time to research this, but I'm pretty sure that the geologic column was just made up so they could use it to to create times and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

To date certain events in history, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

But there's been several discoveries of trees that are right through all these different levels of you know geology that they claim to be millions of years. How's there a fossilized tree going through it all? You know what I mean? Right. And and it actually proves the Great Flood. You know, all that happened rather quickly after the the Great Flood talked about in the Bible. That is more easily explained than the geologic column in millions of years, it makes more sense when you find trees that are through all these different levels. And another point is we we're born into this, I'm gonna say magical world or spiritual world, and we don't realize how amazing it is because we just grow up in it, right? Like gravity. You know, scientists can sit there and try to explain we we see attributes of gravity, but it we don't know exactly what gravity is. Like that to me is evidence of a divine creator. I mean, you're telling me that quintillions of tons of water can be held to a spinning ball, and I can fill up a helium balloon and or a butterfly can fly right over top of the ocean. There's a force that's holding all that water to a spinning ball, but a butterfly can just fly right over, you know, and I'm sure there's scientists out there that would explain it away, but you know, we we're born into this world where we breathe something we can't even see. And it's we just I'm in awe of God's creation and just everything as we should be.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Yeah, we I mean the the reality everyone says uh the the human brain, you know, what our bodies are capable of at the lowest form of human I mean to watch our children grow up and watch them learn from these slobbering goo goo guy guys into learning one word and another word. The I mean life is beautiful, and I think we lose sight of that more than we should, and I'm just as guilty as anybody of it, you know. But as I've gotten older, I just feel like if we all just took a step back and understood ourselves and our own insecurities and understand that every person around us, if you see someone afflicted, someone that doesn't look normal to you, to understand that's just that's their that's their life, and they deserve to be loved as much as the most beautiful person in the world deserves to be loved. Yeah. At the end of the day, life is beautiful. The fact that we're walking on this rock and we're breathing what God's given us and we're learning, never stop your learning. When you close your mind, your learning stops. Yeah. And I think a human should be learning and choosing to try to learn until their last breath, until they get to move on into and into the infinite life. Amen. You know, this this world is is a beautiful thing to be on and to experience, but it's just a stopping point for something way bigger. And if you have faith in that, then walking and being kind is so much easier. We're not perfect, we get angry, we lash out. Always always check yourself on that, I think. Yeah, because I had I had to, because I I wasn't always this way. I I always joke, I've gotten a lot softer and a lot more emotional the older I've gotten, you know. But it's a beautiful thing. The age with age comes new uh I don't know what I'm it you learn as you go, and if you ever stop learning, then you stop.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:17

With age comes wisdom, is it wisdom, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:19

There you go. That's a that's an that's a old one, oldie but goody, you know. Yeah, maybe that is it, you know. It's like you you learn and you try to pass it on to your children, and it's very frustrating to say, man, they think you're just some old guy just spouting because you want to keep them from having fun. Yeah. The humans should constantly learn. Like children have to learn to get to a certain point to where they can have conversations and they can tell you that they're hungry, and they can tell you that they're sleepy, and they can tell you this. You know, us even as adult humans, we should be learning to our last breath, and then we'll be ready to embrace what the next step is to come because it'll probably be a whole other infinite time of learning. It's just it's so it's so nice to have faith.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Amen, brother, amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:15

People people should should really just love one another, and I'm not trying to love peace and chicken grease, but truly the world would exist in a lot calmer state if everyone could learn that we're all beings that were created by God, that were put here to get to experience something beautiful that is really just always taken for granted.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

Amen. And like I keep telling you, man, it's so encouraging to see what God's doing in your life, to see and how he's enlightening you through his word, and you know, as we wrap up, you know, I I like I'm I'm liking to close and and an opportunity for people to accept Christ. And um you know, one of my favorite verses, Romans 10 9, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. And John 3 16, for God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. So I implore you, I I pray that you the listener, if it's even just one person, you know, if this has touched you in any way, I'm talking to you, just confess that Jesus is Lord and just pray and say, Lord, I don't have all the answers, I don't understand it all, but I want to give my life to you, and I want you to be in my heart. And if you truly mean that when you say it and you seek him with your whole heart, you're gonna be changed. And I I just pray that you do. And uh did you have anything else?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

And I I knew when we started that it was gonna be fun, and it has been. Absolutely, and like I said, there's a lot smarter people than me in the world, and I hope some of them watch this and maybe say, hey, you know, this guy. Maybe I ought to dig a little deeper. Maybe they won't. But I had fun talking to you about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:44

Me too, man. And then you know, the Bible says don't throw your pearls among swine or something like that. You know, there's gonna be people that are gonna be haters, and you know, we've talked about that, we're prepared for that. But we keep our faith in the Almighty, right? Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:04

Later y'all.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:05

Peace. Have a good one.