The Freedom Room Podcast | Rachel’s Daughter Sophie

A powerful and moving podcast with Sophie, Rachel's eldest daughter in the UK 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome everyone to the Freedom Room podcast. We are on episode 10 today. So very exciting day, and even more exciting than being on episode 10, is that we have Sophie with us joining us from the UK, who's Rachel's oldest daughter. So welcome, Sophie. We're so pleased to have you with us today. Hello, thank you for having me. Hi, Sophie. And we've also got Rachel on the line with us too. So for those of you listening, we are all on Zoom. None of us are sitting in front of each other, which is what we usually do. But we thought it's a great opportunity to connect with each other, even though Sophie is all the way across the other side of the world. So we'll do what we usually do, which is, you know, um Rach and Sophie just to have a you know conversation about kind of what happened and and you know what it's like for you now as well. So do you guys want to sort of kick off the conversation together?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Yeah, great. Thanks, Camilla darling. So um, Sophie, darling, do you want to just um with when we did Amy, I we just started off with, you know, tell me a little bit now about you know how your childhood was, how you felt your childhood was.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Um so, and especially in terms of how Amy felt, it was completely different. I mean, it wasn't towards the end. I definitely towards the end started realizing that like you drinking and things wasn't normal, but because of all the pizza and the days of school and the times that you know when you'd go get drunk and just randomly turn up home with a new pet, you know, all those, all of those, especially like every time you turn up with a dog, it just blow my world. Like it really would. It really would. So, and especially like being the child that I was and things, you know, them the not going to school, the intense amounts of pizza, the dogs, you know, all of that really, really helped me within like my mental health and things, you know. I wouldn't go to school, I'd eat, that would help me. It's obviously the dogs, you know what I'm like with animals. So in my head, it was more of a it was more of a way to avoid my own problems, if that makes sense. Like with say like with the eating and the no school.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

So when would you say, like, obviously, you remember me drinking all the time, and we would go from pub to pub, and um, you know, there was always party or drama or always at somebody else's house or whatever. How old and do you think you were when you actually realized then that it was such a problem?

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Oh gosh, I can't remember how old I was, but I can remember the exact day. Okay, I can remember the exact day. So um, me, you, Amy, and Shanice were all at Paula's. Obviously, Shanice was there because she's Paula's daughter, but um, we were all there. And um, Amy, I think we'd gone upstairs, me and Shanice, to um make you and Paula little collages. We were ripping things out of magazines, you know, putting it all down on a bit of paper, and we were doing this upstairs while we could hear Amy downstairs having to go at you both for drinking. And um, so we were kind of just stood upstairs, like, you know, it's just Amy, everything's fine. Amy's just overreacting like she always does. Um, so but then me and Shanice came downstairs, and Amy was in there on her own, and we were like, Where's Mum and Paula? Um, you'd gone back to our house. So we walked back to ours, and me and Shanice were gonna give you, like you and Paula, the the little things that we'd made you. But I remember walking in and um you had a glass of wine in your hand, and Amy just started going mad, and you turned around and said, Well, you were always telling me that I'm drinking, so I may as well drink. You know, you turned around and you were saying, like, you're always moaning at me about it, you're always telling me that I'm drinking, so why shouldn't I drink? And I think it was at that moment that I was kind of like, um, maybe this isn't as normal as I thought it was.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

So, what about like times when um, you know, when we would have friends around, when you would have friends around and stuff, um, and you know, I was always drinking while you guys just got on with stuff. To did you think that it was an issue then, or did you just think, well, this is normal?

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I just thought it was normal, to be fair, because you didn't know any different exactly, like from both you and dad. You know, I was cut we both me and Amy were just kind of surrounded by that from well, just constantly surrounded by that from such a young age, we didn't really know. Like until you got sober, we we didn't know what a sober parent was. No, that's very true, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah, and um, and I guess that's another thing, you know, without going into too much detail that I suppose the listeners need to, you know, while I was the drunk parent, I was actually the safe parent. Um, yeah, you know, um, that was like the safe haven, wasn't it? Um exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

You know, the difference between yours and dad's drinking is completely different. So, like you said, whereas you would get drunk, and I think I think we probably saw you drunk more than we saw dad drunk a hundred percent, because of how much that we did see him, but say, but yeah, no, a hundred percent you were the safe place, whether you were drunk or not.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

And what memories do you do you have? Other than that one, what are the memories?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Oh, um well, there's the memory like that Amy was saying about on the last the last podcast, you and Amy, you were saying about when you threatened to put that brick through someone's window, and then there was one where I did put the brick through, or the one which I threatened, two completely different instances. Exactly, yeah. Amy remembers the one where you threatened the guy. I remember actually standing at the front door and hearing you put the brick through the first guy's house. Yeah, might not have been the first, the first one, but it's the first one I remember.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

You know, and again, how did that make you feel? Did you feel safe as a child, you know, or did you feel um yeah, mm-hmm, you know, really unhinged?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Which I'm not gonna lie, in terms of when I was a child, in terms of safety, I didn't really know what it was. In terms of so, like with dad and things like that. That that was kind of the main thing, but that kind of felt normal, if that made sense. So, like that kind of unsafeness was kind of just normal for me. But when when it came to being with you, I definitely felt a whole lot safer around you, a whole lot safer around you. But I've I there was moments where I did feel unsafe, like sometimes where there was one time that I remember, um, oh goodness, um, you you drunk drove me and Amy to a pub, and um it was the one down near dad's, and um we it was a thunderstorm while we were in the car. And it wasn't, I wasn't fearful as much for the fact of that you were drink driving. I was more fearful of the fact that you made me and Amy get in a car when there was a thunderstorm. I don't know if it actually has any effect or anything being in a car when there is a thunderstorm, but in my head, I was just so we're in a car, there's lightning, we're gonna get struck by lightning, and we're gonna get electrocuted. And that was my thought process the whole way there.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

And and did you know that I was like drink driving so much? Yeah, how how did you know? And what did you, you know, how old were you and what did you know about drink driving? You know, why why would a child know about drink driving? Um you was 11 when I got sober. Um, you know, and and one thing also I'd just like to say as well, you know, um Amy was always the strong-headed one, whereas you was just always the one, God bless you, you just sat in the background and just let me get on with whatever I wanted. You just you know you never really caused me any waves, you know. And you know, if ever there was drama and there was Amy, and you know, as what we saw as Amy, what we now know was Amy was actually just trying to mother both me and you. You know, trying to, you know, she was just you know eight years old, or you know, trying to be the mother and take care of both of us. And yet actually what we felt was like Amy just nagging, nagging, nagging. And and and I remember it was always easier, like you would always be the one that if Amy was nagging, that I'd just say to you, oh Sophie, just stop doing that because you would stop doing it. Whereas if Amy, you know, was doing something, or the both of you were doing something, it was always you that I would ask to stop and not Amy because you would always be the one that blessed you that would do as yeah, that would do as you told. Um so um, so I am sorry for that.

SPEAKER_01 9:15

It's like like Amy was saying, I wouldn't change it for the world. I generally, generally wouldn't. Like the person that I have become today, the obstacles that I have overcome purely because I have witnessed you get sober is insane. Like, like I don't I don't know how you feel about it, mum, but seriously, if someone came to me and said you could go back like so many years and you could change all of this, I would fully wouldn't change any of it.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

I wouldn't change a thing either, darling.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah, no, really, you've you've really shown me like well, you've shown me a lot, you know. So especially within my mental health and things, like seeing you get sober has helped so much.

SPEAKER_02 9:52

So with your mental health, so for people who are listening, can I tell people um you know exactly yeah? So a bit late now because I'm saying it. Sorry, Pete. Um, you know, so Sophie um lives with schizophrenia, um, she lives with um, you know, she's um has depression, she has PTSD, um, and anything else, Sophie that I might have missed?

SPEAKER_01 10:18

Um anxiety, anxiety, of course, panic disorder.

SPEAKER_02 10:23

Yeah, yeah. Now, Sophie has always had those kind of things as a child, um, and and I obviously have very often wondered, did it have anything to do with my drinking? Um, I've been told from some no. Um, but I'd like to hear from Sophie on does my would you say my drinking has um played a part in the way you are today in terms of your mental health?

SPEAKER_01 10:55

So um I knew that this question was gonna come up, so no, I I honestly I don't. I mean, it definitely would have had Okay, let's leave it there. No, not really. No, you definitely would have had an effect the same way as like say everyone, you know, everyone's parents affects them a little bit in some way, shape, or form. You know, they all do, but um, in terms of like my situation within my mental health, say I think maybe you could have affected it a little bit, but I know from conversations that we've had before, I definitely think that you think you've affected it more than you actually have. Because, say, whereas whereas like with dad and things, he was kind of the ones that caused all these mental health problems, so that when it comes to the points that like we're remembering and things, I was already mentally ill. I was already in that place. And say, if anything, with you and your drinking, say the pizzas, the day off schools, the dogs, the hamsters, all of them, you know, they they were all helping me. So if in real really, if anything, even though they were short, small little things, you know, they could have potentially really, well, not even potentially, like they did have a big difference. And if I hadn't have, you know, if I hadn't have had them, then maybe it could have been worse, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, yeah, no, I do. And um one thing that I'd like to to also ask, you know, um, so when I got sober, um I found out that you had started self-harming. Um, but it it got worse when I got sober. And obviously at first I couldn't understand why you were self-harming when I got sober, when I got well, why were you self-harming? And obviously, one of the the um the reasons I I was told is, you know, because it's nothing to do with you, it's not you, she's not self-harming because of you, it's not because of your drinking, it's because of something else. You know, I'm not that important that's making you self-harm. But why why was it, was it that you felt safe to suddenly be able to do it, or was it just that that was where you were gonna go anyway, you know, because your self-harming really took off when I got sober. Um, and and and yeah, well, why was that, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

So um, so I think that I was actually probably self-harming a lot more beforehand that I may not have just told you about, but I probably did feel safer coming to you about it when you were sober. But at the same time, the first thing that came into my head is the fact, so even though it was a good change, it was still a change. Yeah, yeah. That's that within itself, especially you know what I like. I like things the same. I like things to be if they've been going one way, I like them to carry on going that way. So, although we were all so happy and so proud of you for getting sober, when you then came out of rehab, I was kind of just sitting there like everything's changed. Everything absolutely different.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

No, absolutely right. You know, we were used to your whole life um revolved around the pubs and the clubs, you know. Every weekend we would go to a pub or a club, or after school we would go to the pub or the club, or after school we would go to friends and we would, you know, and I would drink. It was always out, out, out. And then I got sober and none of that happened anymore. So you were then absolutely, it was like um, you know, you had to learn a new way of living as well. Yeah, you know, so that how weird was that?

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Oh, it was it was really weird, and especially it was weird as well because I didn't think that we were gonna actually ever get to that point, if I'm honest, no, no offense.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

Yeah, no, but no offense taken.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

But yeah, no, I never really had to think about like things like that or anything, like prepare myself for it because I didn't think it was actually going to happen. So then when it did, like for the first six months or so, I was kind of just sitting there waiting for you to relapse. I was oh, because that's kind of that's just all that you know, all that we all that we knew. Yeah, you'd always oh yeah, I'm not drinking as you're sitting there in front of us with a glass of wine, which you say is lemonade.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Yeah, or the vodka and coke, and then Amy would always say, Can I have some? And it'd be like, No, um, yeah, and then she'd know.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

There was one day that um we were going to bed and I asked what was in your drink because I thought it was alcohol, and you said no, it was just lemonade, and you kept saying to me, you were like, try some, try it, try it. It had wine in it, but you kept telling me to try it, and I kept saying no. Maybe I was saying no because I thought that there was alcohol and I didn't want to drink it, or if I just generally didn't want to drink it. But I remember waking up in the middle of the night after that night that we went to bed, I was so thirsty, I was so thirsty, and then I woke up and I saw your glass of lemonade on the side that was that hadn't been finished. So I finished that glass of lemonade for you, soon finding out afterwards that it wasn't lemonade.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

No, I know um Amy say with the whole um vodka and coke, um, and obviously she she would say, Can I have some? And if I ever said no, she knew it had vodka in. And um, so in the end, I I would say, Yes, she could have some. Um, and she'd be like, That tastes funny, that's got vodka in. And I would say, No, it isn't, it's just cheap panda coke, that's why it tastes funny, you know. So I would, I would, you know, again to try and keep the peace, I'd just let her drink my vodka and coke and let her think that it was um, yeah. Oh, those those days, mate, those days. Um, but me and Amy were talking about, you know, we were like the three musketeers though, weren't we?

SPEAKER_01 16:58

Yeah, no, we were. It was us three against the world, no matter what. It was, it was. Anyone looked at us funny, Mom!

SPEAKER_02 17:06

And and yeah, did that did that make you feel safe, or did it again make you feel because Amy also said that, you know, um it made her feel uneasy because obviously knowing that I would just fight anybody, you know, and that's not normal, is it? It's not normal that your parent will go around punching people.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

So within the things that I knew that you'd done, like the things that I saw you do, it actually made me feel safer, considering how dad was with his stuff, how he was towards us. It was really nice to see somebody doing it to somebody else for us. If that makes sense. So for me, it was it was actually say it made me feel not good, but it did make me feel better, it did make me feel safer because I knew that obviously dad was this big scary person, but so was my mum, you know, whereas dad, like I'd never threatened anyone. If anyone was like bullying me or being horrible to me, they never got the oh wait until you see my dad threat. It was the wait until my mum turns up on your doorstep threat. It was it was always it was always you, you know. And they say, yeah, no, it definitely made me feel safer because it was somebody doing it for us rather than to us. Mom, you've muted yourself.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

Hello, hello, hello. Oh my god, please tell me I wasn't muted that whole time.

SPEAKER_03 18:38

Um we're all good?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Yes, yes, yeah. So sorry, yeah, we were um in Redcliffe today, Harrison and I, and um there was a load of lads and some girls coming towards us, and there was a lot of them. We were on Redcliffe Pier, um, and Harrison blessed him, was feeling um quite uncomfortable about it. Um and he said, he was like, Oh, mommy, I feel I feel a bit scared. And that he actually said that and I thought, oh bless him. And I turned around and I said, Oh, don't worry, darling. I said, Mummy can drop kick all of those. And he was like, Can you? And I'm like, Oh Jesus, what if he he actually wants me to do it? You know, back in the day I might have been able to, but today, no.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Back in the day, you wouldn't have done it without a second thought.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

No, oh crazy, crazy mother alert.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Not crazy mother, just protective, loving mother.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Yeah, love you.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Even even though you were drinking, you are protective and loving.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

I know, yeah. So when we would do all the things that sorry, darling.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

I said you did try your best. I I did, I absolutely did. Um, considering the circumstances, yeah, no, I really, really did.

SPEAKER_02 19:57

Um, so when we would, I said to Amy, you know, um when we used to do things like the carnivals or we'd go to the park and stuff, were you ever aware that my my drink bottle was always full of like wine or vodka and coke?

SPEAKER_01 20:14

So when I listened to that bit on Yours and Amos podcast, yeah, I was I was shocked. I was because it's one of those things, like I know that throughout my childhood there was probably only a handful of amounts that we saw you sober. So you was basically drunk all the time, but I forget sometimes that there's certain places where I just didn't, it didn't click to me that you were drunk, but it didn't click to me that you were sober either. So when I heard you say about at the carnival that you'd always have alcohol like in your bottles, that that I didn't know that. That that's that surprised me. I was like, oh, because it's one of those things that makes sense in a way. Well, it does it does make sense, but it's one that my head just hasn't pieced together on its own.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Wow, that's interesting. It's really interesting the different take that you had on it too, you know, that to you it was just fun and games because it meant time off school and and all the holidays that we had, and you know, me messing up, and you know, you waking up in the morning and me just going, Come on, then we're going away for two weeks, or you know, you just never knew, you know, whereas you obviously was like, Yeah, yeah, yay, and yet Amy was like, Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, and yet you're the real nervous, anxious child, and yet looking back, really, it was Amy that was struggling with that kind of stuff. It that's it's it's really interesting. I'm not sure that's the right word to use, but it's it's a real eye opener. Well, you know, how the two of you looked at it so differently.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

And because I think the um with dad as well, so some things to do with him, like a lot of the things that I saw. Like this is like so within alcoholics, obviously, everyone's different, everyone reacts to alcohol differently, and so it could be like so the way that dad was obviously I feel like I got a lot of the not to say that Amy didn't you know because she was definitely here but I I saw a lot and absolutely absolutely right so I you went through so much more with your dad and saw so much more um with me and your dad than what so Amy did absolutely so yeah so that I feel like that kind of shows how I mean I don't know if Amy just wasn't around it as much with dad or if she just doesn't remember a lot but um in terms of that obviously she wasn't as affected as I was but then they were saying yeah no but when it comes to you it was a different kind of whereas when dad would drink I'd get scared and I'd want to hide and I'd want to cry with you I'd I'd it'd make me feel better you know it was that release it was that breathe kind of so I was a much more relaxed mother when I was drinking we didn't have to do anything tidy um untidy rooms and everything no I know oh dear oh dear oh dear um what so what's your relationship like today because it's you know it sounds so beautiful and like we you know when we're listening to Amy as well it sounds like you've got a great relationship with both of the girls which is amazing oh I mean from my point of view I have the most amazing relationship with both the girls I've always been so close to both girls always like I say we were the three musketeers it was the three of us you know taking on the world as Sophie said um and and as we've got older um you know even though Sophie so you know Sophie obviously being back in the UK which breaks my heart daily um you know but Sophie can't come back yet because of COVID and all of that but um yeah I mean we're so close um so close so so so close um and to be fair I'd say that we're so close well especially in terms of like with me and things um so like I was saying before about how you getting sober has really helped me within my mental health um one moment that I think about a lot actually was um it wasn't long after I was diagnosed with schizophrenia and they um prescribed me with uh diazepam and um I remember that there was one night I just really wasn't feeling good and I sent you a message asking if I could have one because he said to take them when I wasn't feeling great. And I just remembered that day I remember you walking down the stairs. I think I can't remember if I was in my bedroom or if I was in the hallway but I remember hearing you walk down the stairs and hearing you open up the box. And I was just terrified to tell you how I was feeling like I was I was absolutely like terrified to just be like hi I'm I'm not feeling great you know um but then I remember that you come in and you sat down and watched we watched Suicide Squad together. I remember because you said that we could put on any film that I wanted and I wanted to put on Suicide Squad and you were like the point of time that we're at Sophie isn't the best thing to watch. But um I remember just sitting there as we were watching it and I could just feel like I could feel your love and I could feel I could just feel it pouring out of you and pouring into me. And I remember I was sitting there and I was like I just it just reminded me of everything that you went through and how different you are now compared to how you was like not to say before like if I was this at like that age and I needed you when you were drinking not to say that you wouldn't be there but you know like the difference the differences you know it really really opened my eyes and made me see and I definitely think that that's helped us get the close relationships that we have today and I'd love to talk but I've been crying I'm sorry as well I didn't mean to make everybody cry beautiful thing to say yeah and I can't wait for her to come back I can't wait to come back yeah um I mean everybody lots of people messaged me after um Amy done her um interview and and said my god that girl loves you you know and and you know with Sophie with what she just said you know my god my girls love me you know we do we do you're such an inspiration mom like you really really are say the things the things that we have already achieved and the things that we are going to achieve in the future as your children are all down to you they are all because of you whether you were drinking or not whether you was a good or bad person when you was drinking everything that me and Amy have achieved and will achieve is going to be because of you I'm starting now I was doing well with not crying wow I'm just so blessed to have both of you girls considering you know um we're just as blessed to have you as a mother and so is Harrison it scares me when I look at Harrison being just eight um and to think the lives that you and Amy had when you were his age um you know um but I can't change any of that you know I can't I can only you know um make sure Harrison doesn't ever get to see it um you know um and he won't ever have to as long as I continue doing what I'm doing he will never ever have to see me drink and I know that he won't where I was before so when when you first got sober I won't lie I didn't have a lot of faith I won't lie but now I have I have 110% faith.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

I certainly have a lot of tools um to use that I've uh picked up along the way I love you so much Sophie I love you so much too this has been so beautiful and thank you so much to you guys for you know opening your hearts and sharing with everybody and me you know what it's like to um you know be in your shoes Sophie and and to go through what you did and and what beautiful connection and love you have for each other now. It's I bet you that this will give so much hope to those so many people out there that are struggling to know that this is what can be if if you work at it and stay sober, you know, this is this is on offer which is absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

Oh yeah 100% like with and especially within obviously I don't know if this is true or not but I could imagine that with a lot of alcoholics with children especially if their children have turned their back on them I could imagine that that kind of feels like like the kind of the last thing where they're like oh well they've given up on me. Well why should I care? You know that kind of thing. But um like a kind of a thing to remember is sometimes even just the power of trying can be so heartwarming and thoughtful to someone like just the thought of even trying you know like when mum said that she was going to rehab like just the fact that she was going to go that step further than just trying on her own that was enough for me to be like okay she she is trying she is going to try and do this.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

You know so there's like if people like walk away into things there are ways to get them back especially you know if you prove you know that you can do it because everyone can do it you know yeah and we're living proof of that yeah 100% well thank you so much guys and um I know that there's going to be so many people out there that are going to benefit from listening to this podcast. So thank you so much for being so honest and beautiful with us. Thank you so there's no worries well thank you so much to everyone for listening and we look forward to you joining us next time so take care from Rachel and I see ya and we'll speak to you next time. Bye bye