The Freedom Room Podcast | Rachel’s Daughter Amy

A raw and honest conversation with Amy, Rachel's daughter 

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Hi everyone and welcome to the Freedom Room podcast. Today we're on episode 9, and we've actually got a really special episode today. We have Amy here who is Rachel's daughter. So Rachel is our CEO and founder of the Freedom Room. We thought it would be pretty raw but pretty amazing to talk to Amy and basically just have a conversation about what it was like having a mum that was A, in active alcoholism, and then B went through recovery and to really look through, look at that journey through a young person's eyes and what it meant for them and also where they're at today with their relationship, which from what I know of it is pretty amazing. So I'll introduce you now to Rachel and Amy. So Amy, thank you so much for coming to join us today. It's really nice to have you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_04 1:05

It's pretty special because we've um we've interviewed people before, but we haven't had anyone in here with us at the Freedom Room. So it's really, really great to be sitting here together to talk about this. And it's you know, it will be raw and it will sort of be some hard, hard topics, but you know, I think it's really helpful for people to hear what you've gone through.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah, I think so too, as well for children who have experienced it and don't know how to feel about what they've experienced, and for parents as well who don't know how it's affected their children good ways, bad ways. Yeah, we've never really talked about it, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

Um, we've never we've never had the conversation. So this is our conversation going out live to the world. We have never had this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

No, and I was thinking about Sophie as well. Sophie and I have never talked about how it's affected us too, like and how it's definitely affected us, blah blah. But yeah, we've never actually spoken about it.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

So, Amy, I suppose the first thing we just want to know is, you know, what was what was it like? What was your childhood with me like? I think that's probably the best place to start.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

It was a bit awful, but like it's I'm gonna get emotional already.

SPEAKER_03 2:20

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:22

Um I mean to start off with, I wouldn't have it any other way because it's made me who I am today. Um so from as young as I can remember, my mum was drinking, but it kind of was just normal, you know. But you didn't know any different.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

You've never seen me sober. No. So you didn't know any different.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah, and you look at other p people and their parents, and I mean, when you're a child, you're very naive, you don't know there's a problem. No one like I mean, obviously I didn't like it, I didn't, but I didn't think it was different to anyone's lives. I didn't realize that their parents weren't drunk all the time, you know? So yeah, from as young as I can remember, um, she was always, always drunk. I mean, sometimes we didn't know because she would act it very well, but so you know, I mean, and there's there's times obviously I've been to my mum's meetings and found out that she she pretty much was drunk all the time. And sometimes I didn't know because it was kind of used to it, and then sometimes I really did know. Um, and we would go we would go out to our friends, to our dad's house, and you'd never know, you'd come back. Some days she'd be fine, some days she'd be passed out, or she'd just be really drunk. And then as soon as you like I would speak to her, like I would know, you know, I would know that she was drunk or what like whatever. Um and we mum and I we never got on, did we, when I was younger? No, we used to fight all the time because But why? Why did we fight? Because of your drinking, of course.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

That was you know, that was it at such a young age. And I used to fight it also. Yeah, Amy would find it, Amy would hide it, Amy would throw it away, you know. Um, and I Amy would stop me going into shops. She wouldn't let me go into a shop by myself um because she wouldn't allow me to buy it, you know. Um, and I would get really angry with her.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

And for for those of you um the people out there that don't know, so how old were you, Amy, at this time when you're talking about?

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Oh, I don't even know. I mean Amy would have been you were single, like we were living just us, us three, one from one of four, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

So you were four when that became a thing, but I think at that point, probably six, seven. Yeah, six, seven. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's younger than Harrison, and when we think about that now, you know, could you could I imagine, you know. Um, yeah. So Amy would stop me when we were in shop, she wouldn't let me go to the shop by myself, she wouldn't let me go in the shop, she wouldn't let me take a bag in the shop, you know, all those things because she knew that I would buy it. Um, and and we would argue and argue and argue and argue, you know, and I'm talking, yeah, we say with a six, seven-year-old, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

I would always, honestly, always a hiding spot in the garage, um somewhere around the washer machine or in the wash oven, you know, so many places I would find it. And the thing is, I I would always go and run and quickly pour it, but then if mum saw me, she would be like she'd be so angry. Um, I mean, it's really like it's really weird talking about this now because I don't think about it now. Like I have all these memories, they're all in here, of course, but it doesn't it's weird to actually go back and visit the emotions because it's not like I really do that now.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

We haven't visited this for a long time, you know. Which is good it's been nearly 10 years now that I've been cleaning sober, and that's a long time to not talk about it.

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Um, how old were you when your mum got sober?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

About 10, wasn't it? Yeah, I remember the call. Well, we were at school, weren't uh and then we came back, and I think you called me or something, and you said you just need to stay with your dad for a little bit. I can't fully remember, but someone said, and then or maybe dad got the call and said that he needs to that we needed to stay with him, and we were like, no, like you know, where's mommy going? Blah blah blah. And then like we got told where she was going. I didn't really think much of it because of her previous many attempts to get sober.

SPEAKER_02 6:36

Exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

You know, it didn't like it wasn't obviously now looking back, it was a massive turning point, but to then I kind of was just like, Oh, we're just not gonna see her for a couple of like for a month, and then she's gonna come back and it's all gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Because I would have said a million times, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:51

So many times. Um and yeah, so we I remember visiting mum and I was so happy. Do you remember you had the re you had the Rihanna perfume on? And you had a white, like it was like a white meshy shirt with a like I it was like a silhouette on it or something, which like read, I remember what you're wearing. Wow. Because I remember when you got out of the I think it was like a van or something like that, a big car, and we were with Nanny, and then we ran up and hugged you. Um and I remember I got that Rihanna perfume all the time because of the smell of it. Um and then and then just oh gonna make me cry again. And then we went and we had um dinner. It was Mother's Day, wasn't it? Yeah. And we went to this very expensive restaurant, wasn't it? Because it was the only place we could get out, like it was kind of near the countryside or something, I can't remember where you went.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

And then I remember it it probably seemed like a really far away, but I only went to Bedford. I got it as a child. Bedford is not that far, half an hour.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Yeah, totally the outfit, yeah. Um and then I do remember I had the I think it's anchovies and I hated it in the little oh because we had like a full three-course meal. Um, and I didn't really like it because I was a child, so I didn't like all the fancy food. And then I remember you telling stuff and you know, give me telling us a little bit of stories. We're like, what do you do, Mum? Like and then you just you know, telling us what you did. And then that was two weeks in, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, because I wasn't allowed to see you for the first two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Why weren't you allowed to see us?

SPEAKER_02 8:28

I weren't allowed to see anyone.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Um, and then we saw you did we see you again? Yeah, maybe once, and then you came out because it was that week and because you were in for four weeks, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And then I remember you coming out and when we were at nanny's house, and there were like all the family were there and you were telling them about your thing, and they were like, whoa, whoa. Um, but if I have if I have one, this is gonna sound like if I have one horrible memory that sticks out, it was that time that you took the pills and then you had to go to hospital or the ambulance came back.

SPEAKER_02 9:10

Okay, so what Amy's referring to. That was the worst. Um, there is that um, so I was on antibuse and um I then realized that if I didn't take the tablet um I'd be able to drink. So I stopped taking antibuse and started drinking, and I had done a litre bottle of vodka, and Amy came home and accused me of drinking, however, she was usual.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

So to prove to Amy that I hadn't been drinking, and I told her not to do it because so yeah, we had to remember, we had a fight, we were just fighting. I was like, Mom, I know you have, I know you have. Very much I was like, it was already eight, yeah. And I was just I was just fighting. And then she said that she she was like, I'll prove to you, and I said, Don't do it, because I knew what would happen. And then she I think I walked away, or you did I don't even know, and then you you done it, and I was like, Mum, what have you done? And then you just you weren't feeling well, and then you were just you were like dry heaving and vomiting, and there was like a bucket, and you were just like falling unconscious. Kind of you just it was horrible, it was the worst, and I didn't know what to do. And I think you said call nanny or someone, and then so I got like I was just I didn't know what to do because it was just me and Sophie there, wasn't it? So you would have been eight and nine. Oh, it was that was awful, and then we had to and then I can't remember if someone told us to call the ambulance, or maybe Nat because I spoke to Nanny and Uncle Mark, and they said call the ambulance. So we got the ambulance to come. I can't fully remember what happened. I think did you go away for the night? I think you did, and then you came back. And Nanny and Uncle Mark stayed with us or something.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:47

And then the next day, yeah. You were yeah, that was that was big.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Um, which is why I don't like antibuse. But that's just my personal um experience. You know, I also know that it does work for other people, but so I mean the other thing, um, you know, I remember is that if ever we went out, obviously we would always go anywhere that that was had alcohol and stuff, and then when I got sober, you wouldn't go anywhere. Oh yes, I remember that. I wouldn't go to the pubs. You wouldn't go to the pubs, you wouldn't even go to a restaurant that was selling beer. We would have to go if ever you and I would go anywhere for something to eat, I would want to take her somewhere really nice.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah, and if it did alcohol, I wouldn't let her go. She wouldn't go. I remember that now. We're frightened that she would I I'm trying to take myself back. Because I mean now I'm okay. But I think I was just I think I was scared that you were gonna drink. And I just had so many horrible memories at the power. Alcohol, just and just yeah, just any you know, so I didn't I maybe even like when we would have to go with dad, it was just awful as well because afterwards. But I think I think I was just so scared that you were going to drink because anywhere that has alcohol, you know, that's what I was used to. I completely forgot about that actually.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Was it a point that you remember that you were okay and comfortable kind of going to those places and that you were like, okay, mum's got it this time?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Um, I think it took a couple of years. I think possibly maybe even moving here was because it was kind of like a massive distraction.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I was nearly five years sober.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

I yeah, like I was always and I think I don't have any memory of that here, feeling that way here. Nothing at all. Um, but I know it took a while because it's just I think the places that you go just have the memories of it. You know, and where we live this, you go to the same places that you have the same, you have the just the same memories, and I yeah, I completely forgot to.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Because I've probably exhausted all of the pubs and clubs that were anywhere near us.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Um, you know. I mean, there's many a time, I don't know whether you remember any of these times, but times when we would walk up to the pub at the top of the road and then I'd have to get people to come.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

People to come pick you up. Yeah. I remember we walked, oh, I remember this is isn't locking so many memories. But I remember, yeah, going to the pub at the top, and Sophie and I, because I was like, Mum, Mummy, I want to go home, and you said you go home, then take the keys, and you were there, and we walked home by ourselves. Oh my god, I don't need to remember that. Yeah, I remember that, and you had to get someone to come pick you up.

SPEAKER_02 13:23

And because I mean I remember being in the pub and you send in you called uh I remember being in the pub and I had left Sophie and Amy at home. And the next thing, um, Auntie Sheila, so Spaz is mum. And she was um bard into the pub and got me out. Obviously, they had called. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Um it might have even been that time, it could have been another time, I'm not hundred percent sure. But yeah, I remember, and then we took the keys and we went home. And I always I always remember going to you know, I think um Janice's house with Paula. Yeah, that was horrible memories.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

That was not Paula, my beautiful Paula.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, a different one. Um yeah, I remember that all the time. We would always go there and after school, and we never know when we get back. And if you're like, Oh, we just won't go to school tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

I was gonna say, how many times did we miss school? Did you miss school because it's a fight with we would fight. Amy's the only child I know who would argue that they need to go to school. Yes. Um, but we would fight because she was like, Mum, we need to go to school, you know, or um I would mess up and book a holiday or want to book a holiday. Um and Amy would say, But we need to go to school, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

Yeah. There's just I mean, a lot like all the memories are just very similar because it was just very repetitive. The same, same stuff, new days.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

As a child, I have to ask this and I'm gonna pop, I don't know, but um did you feel safe or really unsafe as a child?

SPEAKER_00 14:59

I think unsafe because I mean it's difficult because you're my mum, you know, like when you have that with your mum, like I don't think no matter what, I would always, you know, you're my mum. You when you like any child, when you're with your mum, you feel safe. I felt I think the word was comp like completely out of control with anything. I mean, there were some situations where I felt unsafe, like going to the pub and like even going to poolers with certain people there that I didn't like, and you know, and some people like um that you would that we would see through your drinking that I didn't like and that would make me feel unsafe and that you weren't.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Because the people that I did see when I was drinking were not nice people.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

No, and even you would just do things when you were drinking, and I'm like, why aren't you doing this? Like like just just seeing different just seeing people, like you know, and you know, and I just wouldn't understand and like it's not the unsafe thing because being with your mum is unsafe, but it's just the constant I don't really know how to explain it.

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Like no structure, yeah, no that's it routine and just like what is going on, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

You come home, you don't know what's happening. You know, it's kinda yeah. Like but I mean not that I was used to it, but I kind of was at the same time. Like because you don't know any different.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

Yeah, that was what the normal and drinking while driving.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

And I say, Mummy, you why are you driving? I haven't drank anything. You know, just little things. I'm like, you know, have you d have you had something to drink today? And I yes you have. And you go and find something out the back. Um and I even remember when we had that fight when you threw the keys at me. Do you remember? I don't know if you remember. And you smashed uh photo frame butt next because you we I can't remember what we argue, but you threw the keys at me and I moved and it smashed the frame. Do you remember? I don't know if you do.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Is this when you throw some more vodka? Who knows?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

I've got no idea. But I always like I would come and I I think the first thing we do when I get home, just look for it. I think. You know, you just kind of just get into that routine. I guess you you don't have one and you do it. Um, and I remember and me and Sophie were so different. She would love obviously staying at home, always getting pizza, you know, staying home from school, and I just felt like I was constantly fighting you and Sophie. You know, I was this little one woman going against. I mean, I don't really know why that is, but we're all different, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

And um, so we would have lots of days off from school, and you would go or we'd go on holiday, and and we've been very blessed in terms of holidays. We've been, you know, we've been halfway around the Caribbean, we've done nearly all of the uh European countries, you know. Um, but how did that make you feel when I was drinking? Because I would obviously, if I messed up at home, I would just book a holiday and and and all we'd do was drink, you know. But how did that make you feel too?

SPEAKER_00 18:19

I mean, so I like the holidays, but I remember um I mean I remember when we went away with Nanny and you two both drank, that was the worst holiday I've ever had. Like, do you I know I hated and I was giving you you two such grief, and Nanny was just like just let her have a good time, and then I couldn't comprehend why she was when she knew you had a problem, I couldn't like my little young mind, couldn't comprehend why she was letting you drink, but then obviously wouldn't get out of the shower because she she refused to get out of the shower like this because she yeah that's it okay. Um yeah, and I just that was just that was like two weeks, it was just awful, hated every second of it, and there was nowhere else that I could go, you know, and that was a problem. And I think I mean obviously the whole thing has made me grown up, which is great, like I wouldn't change it because I was wishing that I was older so I could do something about it, so not like I could remove myself from the situation and go, you know, go and do something else. But when you're a child, you have to be with your mom all the time. You you don't really have much options. But yeah, that holiday was was horrible because I just we were just fighting and I was fighting with Nanny as well, and she like she didn't understand, but that was because she was having a good time too, and then Sophie And I was very manipulative. Oh, yeah, that's it. You you would do it to get your own way with the drinking. And that's what and that's why you was used to trying to do it with us, trying, I'll get you pizza, I'll get you sweets. Yeah. Do you remember the I can't remember what the um place was to get the food? The midnight munchies? Midnight munchies. That's it. Uh we used to get like food all the time at night.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

So midnight munchies in the UK was um place that would um deliver alcohol at night time.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

But you would always get us sweets and chocolate.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

But I would also get sweets, chocolates, and pizza, um, and they would also you know deliver my wine. Um and it got to a point where I would get them to just leave it at the front door or something, um, or actually pass it through the window if um I was having it and they didn't know because our front door used to beep because it had the alarm. So you'd open the door and it'd go beep beep beep beep beep. So I used to get them to pass it through the window so it didn't gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

So they didn't cotton on.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

So some pretty serious memories and and emotion that goes with that. And so for you today, you don't it's not in your daily kind of sort of life at the forefront.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

No, that's like that's it. Like I've got all these I've got, I mean, they're all like obviously I've got the memories there. And you know, there's like not much I can do about that, but I don't think about them daily. That's why before we did this, I had to kind of get my head into like back from when I was a child. You know, because I don't think about it. And I think that's why we haven't really talked about it, because I don't think about it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

The only time we ever think about it or talk about it is Amy would say to me, Do you remember when? And I'll go, No, and she'll go, Oh yeah, no, you were drunk. And then there's that we kind of look a bit like oh that seems to come out so much lately. Yeah, it's like, do you remember this? No, oh yeah, no, that's what you were drunk. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Because I I mean I kind of do forget that you like that you were drunk because it's been like the second the second half of my life of her not drinking.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

You know, and I was gonna say something just and I can't remember what it was about And do you think it's affected your relationship that you have today with my with my mum?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

Oh, I think it's made it better. Like we yeah. I mean, I think I mean I I'm so like what that means. I'm so grateful though that it all did happen because um like if it didn't I could not be who I am today, you know, it hasn't negatively affected me. Obviously, I'm sure it's had some impacts, but just the same as anyone else's childhood has had impacts, you know, on themselves anyways. But I think m like mum's recovery has brought us a lot closer and it's taught me a lot of things. That's gonna make me cry again. But and I think even just mum even bringing us up, even though she was like drunk pretty much the whole time, but as a single mum and still doing it, you know, and then seeing that she could um, you know, be in recovery and do it all, you know, she obviously has the help of other people, but she's doing it all herself, you know. It's all you know, and it makes me think that I can do things myself, you know, it makes me feel stronger because I know that she's stronger. Um, so it's I I think it's got a good effect on us. Because I mean we've had our ups and downs, of course. Um but yeah, I think I mean the like outcome of all of it isn't bad. The outcome's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 23:17

And the and even yeah we we all say, and you know, um I always say it as well, and um I don't regret any of it. And I know there's people that's gonna go, you know, how can you not regret when you've just listened to what Amy said, um, you know, and she was just eight um when she was, you know, battling with me, with you know, and and her whole life, never, you know, not knowing any different because I was drunk the whole time and and all of that, and yet people are thinking, gosh, how can you say that you don't regret that? But look what it's given us today, look what the relationship that we have, look that where we are today, um, you know, something good has come out of my drinking.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah, exactly. And yeah, even if even yeah, that's it. And I because I go to your meetings sometimes, which is really like it's really nice because like listening to you and how you perspect on it, would you do you regret any of it? No. You know what? If you'd have asked me maybe before if I regret well, if I could change it, maybe I would have said yes, but thinking back on it now, no, because it has made everything how it is now, you know, and I'm happy with how things are now. I'm happy with who I am now, I'm happy how you are now. And if anything would have been different, uh you know, we would be different, and then you know, so I think I I'm I'm grateful that it happened, you know, and even like it's helped me grow as a person, it's helped me it helped me grow up very quickly sometimes. Um, but I think it you know, it is good and I wouldn't have it any other way.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

Amy's watched some um horrible things like you know me putting bricks through neighbours' windows.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

So I mean there's so many, there's so many memories that we've got into, but I think there's so many.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

You know, and I'm sure there's many, many times when Amy was really, really embarrassed of me.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Oh yes, you know, as her mother. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

But um and and you know, and I would fight. I would I was a very leary.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Oh, she was she I wanted to fight everyone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Yeah, and I did, yeah, and it didn't matter who was watching.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Yeah, who cares? And we we used to call Nanny all the time, or Uncle Mark. And I remember I would hide in my bed. Once we'd had a fight, I'd be crying. I'd call Nanny and then she'd come down, or Uncle Mark would come down, or then you'd be and then you'd be like, Why are you calling? Yeah, I mean, if you caught us calling, you know, you would be angry if you so we just had to. Without my mum and oh god, could you imagine?

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Yeah, you know, my mum is just amazing. Um yeah, yeah, absolutely, um, was their saviour. Yeah, she really was. And and I would wake up like on the sofa and never and just open my eyes and see it would be even my mum sitting in the armchair asleep, or my brother or my auntie, and each time I'd wake up and I'd be like, shit, you know, because I didn't know they were there, but obviously I'd fucked up, and you know, the kids have had to call somebody to come and help them out. And I remember Uncle Mark um coming bombing down the motorway and getting to the house in about 20 minutes. My brother lives about an hour away, yeah, you know, um, because that they'd rang him and um I was just unconscious. And I always remember hearing Amy like going, Mammy, mammy, mammy, mammy, wake up, mommy, like shaking me, you know, and and I could hear it, but I just couldn't wake up, you know. And so many, oh I've just had a thought. I tell you, do you remember the time Chloe got kidnapped from my house? Oh, my God, maybe tell that story. How did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Well, I mean I was kind I mean, I was a little bit unaware at the start, but then I was just like, what is happening? Like I didn't know what was going on, and then you were freaking out. I mean, uh I was kind of I didn't really know what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

So my front door got kicked in by um police who dragged me out of my bed, going, um, where's the girl? And I'm like, What? What girl? What girl? And they're um saying, like, you know, where are the kids? And I'm like, they're in their bed. You know, anyway, long story short, I was so drunk that I'd actually forgotten that um they had a friend over. Um, and the friend's stepdad um come and kicked the front door in and took up while I was asleep. Oh sleep passed out, and it was only because of the lovely nosy neighbour across the road who we got on so well with when I got sober. Hey, um, but she called the police and said, I've just seen somebody in a white bank, it could front door in and take a child. We would not have had any idea. Um they threw me down the stairs, didn't they? Yeah, literally. These police the police literally I rolled and hit every step. Yeah, oh, it was a horrible night. Um and and that's just a number of all these things, but you know, that must have really scared you guys.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

I mean, I remember you you going to the next door neighbours and saying about throwing the brick.

SPEAKER_02 28:26

Oh, yeah, the guy next door. Yeah, throwing the brick through his window.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yeah, and I was just like, and do you remember I was trying to get you not to do it? And was was the other we had other guys there as well. We had other people there with us, didn't we?

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Probably.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah, and and then I was trying to get because I was like trying to get you to stop and but I mean all the emotions that I felt I mean through everything are just all the same. It's just I like I don't really know how to explain it, but just trying to control you really. Like being like like I was being the parent of it. You absolutely were though, yeah. Yeah, like it's you know, stop it, what are you doing? You know, stop drinking, like technically, yeah, being the parent. And even on Sophie sometimes, and like you know, we need to go to school, we need to do this, you need to do your homework, you need to brush your teeth, you need to shower, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 29:15

Because and when we did things like um, you know, when we would um enter the carnival? Yeah, did you know that um my bottle of drink, you know, whenever we did that, did you know that my my bottle of water had alcohol in it?

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I think it um I think there were times when you did it when you may have told us like I kind of did know, kinda didn't. Um, but also like being a child, you are just naive. Yeah, I mean, like I knew I mean I knew throughout my whole childhood, like that you I mean, compare when you were around lots of other people, you could see that you were different. You know, you were acting differently. But you kind of just focusing, I want to do the carnival, you kind of don't really think about it. You know, it's only like when we were at home and that's when the you know it was you could like I was there, I could see drinking all you know. Um so kind of, but like I'm I'm lucky of being so young because of the you know the innocentness and and how naive you are when you're you don't you know understand the severity of it. You do and you don't at the same time, and like if if you would have kept going throughout high school and ever and you know all that sort of stuff, it would have been awful.

SPEAKER_02 30:31

Like it just I don't know what so um I have to ask this again, I don't really know why, but I feel I do, and and it's not because I plan on ever doing this, because I don't plan on ever picking up a drink, but you know, if I was to pick up a drink, what would you do?

SPEAKER_00 30:46

I always remember after you doing it, and I just thought if you ever did, I would never speak to you ever again. I thought I think I have I told you that. I just because always in my mind I said if you was ever do it, I would disown you as a mum. I don't know why I thought that, but like I mean, I haven't thought about it really now, but definitely after you got sober, I used to think about it if you know you did it again. I don't know why I thought so young I could disown you as a mum. I'm gonna be lemon, but you're disowned. I'm gonna play the red down, that's it, you're done, cut off. You know, like you know, like I don't even know. Um, but I don't know what I thought I was gonna do with myself, but uh I would my like I think my fear for a long time was you picking up a drink. Like I was so fearful of it, but now now I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

No.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I mean, if you did, I knew I know there's a lot of things, like there's so many reasons why you wouldn't. You know, there's so many reasons. I mean, it doesn't mean that you wouldn't, it doesn't mean there's you know, never say never that's like not in a you know what I mean. You don't know, but you know, I'm fairly confident. But I remember, yeah, after I just was all like I just thought I wouldn't after everything I'd never talk to you ever again, I wouldn't again, I don't know why being so young, but a lot of these um feelings are all I think they're all England, so I think moving here has definitely helped because there's no memories here.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

No, I I agree.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

It may just no there's no memories here.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

We don't we don't drive past a pub and think bloody hell that was where X, Y, and Z happened. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

I If we went if we went back home, it's it's everywhere. Yeah, if we're back in that house everywhere, just you know, even picturing it in my brain, like I consider just memories, even the hill, just memories. There's so many things. So if we hadn't have moved, who knows? I mean, I think I would have still been the same, but definitely moving here away from it so much. Yeah. Um so yeah, a lot of if you'd have asked me this like back in England, I'd get you know, give you some more in-depth answers because very fresh in the mind.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

So what advice would you, Amy, maybe give to somebody who you know, I'm I'm obviously I'm not suggesting that there's an eight-year-old listening to this anywhere, but um, you know, if some what would you suggest to anyone who may have gone through or is going through anything that you've been through?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Well, I mean, I could probably give a bit of buy bit of advice to the child and the parent as well, from my experience. As well, I mean, firstly, like if you I mean if you're going for a parent like for yourself, like if there's anyone who has children and thinking about how their alcohol is affecting, you know, because I know that you used to beat yourself up all the time, you know, and you just you can just feel awful about it, but now obviously I understand there's not it's you can't control it, you know. I understand I understand a lot about it. I do that's never a choice, I never you know, and um so like I would just say to uh especially like parents is not to beat yourself up about it because children I mean obviously it's not some things that children want to see. No one willingly goes, yeah, but children are resilient, they are naive, you know, there's so many things that they are, and just because like if you think about it plainly, everyone has something in their life that affects them from their childhood, like it you're just that I don't really you know how I don't know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Like that's just your thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

That's just your thing, and you're not you're not scumming, I don't think um from my experience, you're not completely scarring them for life. Some people obviously, you know, deal with things differently, so I can only speak on behalf of how like I feel, but that's just they're gonna something's gonna happen in their childhood that's gonna make them who they are, that just don't beat yourself up about it. There's you know, you because I think on top of battling grown oh battling no, that's it, battling an addiction. You don't need to think obviously you want to think about your children, but you don't want to have those negative feelings of being a bad parent on top of recovering. Because I think for parents as well, their feelings towards their children after recovery and stuff is they feel a lot of guilt and a lot of all you know, all that sort of stuff, and like I would say to you, mum, but you know that you know that I don't I'm not angry with you, so I don't think you feel that way anymore. I'm sure you probably have some. Oh hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:28

But you know, we're all resilient, that's it. Um because when growing up, you know, the one thing that I always used to stand by when I was drinking was like, no one's gonna hurt my kids, you know. I would like anybody even looked at my girls in the wrong way, I would go and batter their ass, you know. Which and and yet I had absolutely no understanding that actually I was the one causing causing all that harm.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

But you still, I mean, there's still good things in my childhood. I mean, like my childhood is not the same as someone else's, and I think as well growing up, talking to people, I sometimes as like as I've grown up, you know, when you talk to other people, you make friends, and they stuff that say stuff that's happened in their child and it hasn't happened to me. I remember when that first started happening, I felt a bit bit upset, a bit ashamed, like you know, that I didn't do those things when I was a child. You know, like you speak to someone like, didn't you, you know, do this or watch this? I don't know, something just little things, and you're like, no, I was too busy dealing with my mom. Like, you know what I mean? Like, and at the start, I was kind of like I felt a bit isolated. I mean, not majorly, but if you if I was to describe the feelings, it would just be a bit isolated that all these people were like, as if you didn't do that, and they didn't know the reason why that I didn't do that, and they wouldn't mean to say in a horrible way, but they didn't realize what was actually going on.

SPEAKER_04 36:52

Um, but yeah, so for maybe for the children, um I need to think about this one because I haven't actually thought about would Alan be something that's good for them to go to or to get it is that is that a different one or has it been changed?

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Alatine is for children of alcoholics.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

I thought Alanon was No, that's for the family.

SPEAKER_02 37:15

Oh, Alatine. Um, but it's yeah, Alatine is for children.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Yeah. I think I think it would be good. I mean, maybe even one day I would try it because I've never I've never actually spoken to another child that's gone through what I've gone through. I've never had that.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

So there's another thing as well, Ames, called um it's a coa adult children of alcoholics. Oh, I remember you telling me, yeah. Yeah, um and that it that would probably be a really good thing. I think so that you could speak to another.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

Yeah, because I've I mean the only person I can really like I talk to that can relate is you. I mean, and we talk about it like I mean when I go to your meetings, like that's when we kind of, you know, we have the little deep down bond of you telling and I know what you mean, but you know, like I haven't yeah, I haven't spoken to someone that's had the same experience. But I kind of like I haven't felt the need to, you know, like I mean I'm not saying that I wouldn't do it, but I haven't felt like I have to, but you know, it's not something I would say no to. Um, but yeah, maybe if people are struggling with it to like seek the support from those people. I mean, I know that I have had some things I don't know how to word it, my personality and my traits are as a re some of them are as a result of your drinking, and I think my controlless controlledness, you know, how I like to, you know, a bit of a control freak. Oh, are you only? I haven't spotted that one. Is uh is I think that's as a result, but I mean that's you know, that's I'm not saying it's a bad thing, you have to embrace your flaws, you know. So we've all we've all got our own little things, but yeah, I'm not saying that I came out and scaved or anything. Um but I I think I think as well. I mean, I would say this to anyone, not just people, like not just children of alcoholics, is just finding yourself. You know, I mean I would say this to anyone anyways, but because you know, finding out how things have affected you when kind of working on that, and I mean, I mean I'm quite I'm quite lucky with how I've you know because I've kind of followed you. You're you're going up, I'm following you too.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah, and that's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

That's it, so that's that's helped me. So I can't I can't really give you a few.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Yeah, you're such a strong, beautiful girl.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

From you, man. It's true though, but I didn't just get it from nowhere. Uh like I I couldn't um say because I couldn't imagine if you were still drinking now. That's just awful thoughts. Awful, awful, awful thoughts. I couldn't, you know, so I couldn't like give anyone advice in that situation because I wouldn't know what to do myself.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

No, exactly right. You didn't know what to do then, no more than what you'd like to do. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

I would want to run away from you, but you know, you I you'd like to.

SPEAKER_02 40:02

You'd like to disown me and take me to 11 and pay the rent yourself.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah, exactly. Pay the bills, uh, support myself.

SPEAKER_02 40:09

Um at 20, she's still not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Shut up.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Um we have the most closest relationship though, and and we've always been very close. The three of us, like I said, we were the three musketeers.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, we had a good time. I mean, even though some yeah, we could do whatever we want, but we had a good time, but it was just a yeah, I've so I'm different.

SPEAKER_02 40:33

It was just made unstable.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Yeah, and a bit horrible at times. Like, you know, so one day, like, you know, if you think about a standard week, one day was good. You know, we'd have we'd have sort of like a normal, normal-ish, you know, and we'd be in bed and we'd go to school, and then the next time you come home from school drunk, blah, you know, it's horrible. You just didn't know. Then the next day that's it. So it's not like it wasn't all terrible, terrible. Like it's some parts were semi-normal and then some parts were not. Um but I don't what advice would you give to I really I wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

I would only be able to say go to Alatine, go to Alatine, because I wouldn't know how to advise. Um, I can only help alcoholics because that's the only person I can relate to. I can't relate to you, I can't relate to Jay, you know, um can't relate to Sophie.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Um I think maybe just under like for someone with a parent in recovery, I would say understanding, you know, just understanding what about addiction, understanding, you know, all that stuff, because then you can un you can realise that it's not, you know, it it's not in their control, you know, and it's you I think I mean I'm a very understanding person. Once I understand things, it's all all kind of okay. But understand, you know, do the recovery with them. Like even when I come to your meetings, I love coming to your meetings because it kind of it just I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:58

Does it let you know that your mum's not the only one? That there's other mums and other women out there that's a very good thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Yeah, but I mean I don't I don't really go for that reason, but I think some people could, some people definitely could. For me, I I I just I think it is a really nice community, like with people, like they're just so welcoming, so lovely, and you know, it is nice because it gives you alcoholics are lovely people, they they are, and it gives you perspective, and even like not in a selfish way, but it makes you feel like you're not the only one in the world that's got stuff going on, even though mine's not alcohol related, yeah. Sometimes when you've got things going on, it's really nice because they are so lovely, they are such lovely people. But I think for yeah, even going to um like a meeting as like as a child to their parents' meeting and seeing that their parents are not the only one. I think I mean, you know, think about it, maybe it did help me because hearing about other people and it does make you feel like you're not the only one. So it is yeah, it's really nice.

SPEAKER_04 42:57

But yeah, I wouldn't know what to say to someone who's still maybe we can suggest if you know they can speak to their GP and say this is what's going on at home and and flag it there, and if they needed support with mental health issues, yeah, you know, potentially see a psychologist or somebody that can really support them through what they're feeling. Yeah. And I think what you said is so valid as well, being informed about what's going on in your home, like what the parent is going through, because knowledge is power, and if you understand it, like you said, it's it potentially is a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Um yeah, even like what you were saying about going to see like a therapist, psychologist, even I I let's say like I've been seeing one for a little while, it just helps with little things. I mean, it wasn't all focused on I mean, I don't think it really was focused on you at all, but just you know, little because I'm not that important, which is nice.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

No, but no, but like it has Because you know, we think that we've had this massive effect on our kids and other people. And don't get me wrong, I mean you've had an effect, but we have

SPEAKER_00 44:00

One.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

Um but you know, we're not that important that everything in our child's life is just because of our drinking.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

And that's that's that's what I'm saying to the parents. Like, I mean, of course, I'm only one person. My views and my mindset is different to someone else's. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Because it's gonna be very interesting. We're gonna do the same with Sophie.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

That would be that would be very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Because they are gonna be so different, these two things.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

And that's it, and Sophie and I are so uh completely different ends of the stick. Like we're just we're just we're just so different. I mean, we always have been, always will be. Yeah, so and I mean, even when I was thinking about doing this earlier, I was thinking like, what would Sophie say? Because I would have no idea. I don't know, we've never we've never really spoken about it. But yeah, with like the parents, that's it. Like some people may be affected, but I guess some people some people, I don't really know because I could say I'm fine, you know, all every child ever's gonna be fine, but that's doesn't mean that's right, yeah, you know, yeah. But hopefully, yeah, I don't and I will just keep repeating the same things over again.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

Yeah. Well, I think that's been amazing and very brave for talking to us about it, Ames. So thank you so much. Thank you. And we love you dearly and think you're just such a beautiful young person. And I made me cry. I feel very lucky to be part of, you know, e even around you guys. Like it's very it's beautiful to see how you guys get along and and what you have together. And you know, that's that's in spite of everything, and that's really beautiful, and maybe because of it.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

I think because that's it, you can say inspired of, but that's it. I think because of because of like I will always say, like, if if someone said to me, Would you like to rewind and have a normal childhood, exactly the same, just no drinking, you know what? Sometimes you think maybe it'll be nice to experience it, but like I don't want to because of how it's made me today, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Exactly right, and what we have today, you know, because we do have the most amazing bond, you know. It you know, um, yeah, we have such love and respect for each other, you know. Um, and to feel that for Mamie, you know, knowing what what life she has gone through, you know, feeling that love and respect for Mamie um is massive.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Yeah, which is I mean, it's fun that you know, because you know, that's it. We don't really talk and not talk, but we don't really talk about it that much because we just I mean I guess we kind of just have this mutual ground. Like we just do, like you know, um what I was gonna say something, I can't remember what it was.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

But yeah, it's all good. It's all good. Well, thank you guys, and um, it was really lovely to have you here with us, Ames, and thank you for being so honest and open. Means a lot.

SPEAKER_02 46:50

We love you, yes.

SPEAKER_04 46:52

Um, and thanks to everyone joining us today. So if this has brought up some emotions for you, um please use the phone numbers on our website, reach out. You're more than welcome to reach out to us and talk about things, but please seek help if you are feeling like you've got some big emotions and and you need some support. It's really important. Um, but yeah, thank you for joining us and we will catch you next time.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

See ya. Bye.