Saema's Story: Can you be Pakistani and American?

Can you be 100% Pakistani and 100% American at the same time? Saema certainly thinks so, but Zainab isn’t letting her off that easily. In this episode, the aunties dive into what it means to grow up between cultures, navigate competing expectations, and build a blended family that doesn’t fit neatly into any one box. Saema shares stories of identity, belonging, and the moments that made her question where she fits in. Maybe the answer isn’t choosing one side—it’s embracing all of who you are.

Transcript

Zainab: Doc, in this episode, we're going to spend some time knowing you, getting to know you. Remember how you twisted the last episode and you turned the tables on me, and you said you wanted to know everything about who Z is.

Saema: I didn't twist it. I think your story is a beautiful story of a lot of hardship, a lot of discovery.

Saema: I didn't twist it. I mean, I could in season two, twist it.

Zainab: Well, you know, I'm about to turn the tables on you because I think the viewers should know a little bit more about who Saema is.

Saema: I was hoping to keep that hidden for a bit, but here we are. It's not going to happen for too long.

Saema: Right. So you got me. So where would you like to get started? What do you want to know?

Zainab: Okay, I was kind of thinking we start with your American Pakistani identity. Because I know you're in, like, the two shoes — deeply Pakistani and very American also. And I always wondered, ever since I've known you, I always wondered — who wins?

Saema: Interesting. You're probably the millionth person I've met who said that, to be honest. But that's huge. That's an area that's very difficult to navigate when you're first generation.

Zainab: Your parents were born in Pakistan?

Saema: I'm born outside of Detroit. First generation. I've never been Pakistani enough for the Pakistanis. I've never been American enough for the Americans. And the reality is, for many people, that is hard — finding an identity amongst two cultures.

Saema: And I remember growing up, there was some — I'm American, but wait a minute, I'm Pakistani too. Where is the intersection? Is there an intersection? And now I can say there is. I'm both. I'm both of them. But I think for a lot of people who are not both, it's hard to understand that. Now that we've had generations come — we have second and third generation Pakistanis, South Asians in this country.

Saema: We're learning more about that. But it's not a very easy road to go about, to be honest. So who fights and who wins? You know what? Growing up, I thought you always lost. I always lost because — 

Zainab: Who is I? Are you talking about the Pakistani or the American?

Saema: Both. I think it depends on where you are in life. As a kid, I had no idea who I was, although I thought I knew I was Pakistani-American. But what that meant to me was one thing. What that meant to the outside world was another thing. And I don't think they were related. And who wins? It really depends. For me, I think I'm very Pakistani, but to you, you probably don't see that because...

Zainab: I see you as like a gora wrapped in brown skin.

Saema: Yeah, I remember you told me that this weekend — as I'm wearing my beautiful suit. But I can see it. But that's not just you. Your first generation parents, you have to look at it from their standpoint. I only understand that as an adult — they're trying to hold on to what they know, their cultural norms, their religious beliefs. First of all, for many reasons, it's who they are. It's carved out who they are. It's helped them in so many ways, get to the next stage in life and to grow as people. So it's worked. Good things, bad things. If it's taken you to a place of success — in whatever definition success is to you — it's worked. So they're trying to hold on to that, and now they're thrown into a brand new world where the language is different, the people look different, the culture is different, the hand gestures, everything is different. And they don't find the norm. They don't find their food, they don't find their clothes, they don't find anything. And what grapples them so much is also fear. If I don't instill these values in my kids, will I do something wrong? Because all they've ever known that got them to that point of success is their values. So they're trying to implement and bring those values to their children in a brand new territory. But the child — me, being the child — I understand. I love those values, I love all of that. But you know what? I also want to go to the mall with my friends, and I want to wear this and I want to try this food and I want to do all this. They seem like certain small, petty things, but they are day to day nuances. You encounter these challenges every day, so you think about them, you process them and you want to partake.

Zainab: Okay, so talk to me about when you first heard the phrase Log Kya Kahenge from your parents.

Saema: I don't even know when — I mean, I probably heard it in the womb and then I heard it every day after that. And that is part of —

Zainab: Did it haunt you?

Saema: It will forever. I mean, when I hear that, I cringe inside. Oh, yeah. My whole body just twists and turns. And I know these organs can't do that, but they do. I'm telling you, they do. This phrase is part of the reason why being first generation is so hard. Because it implies that you have this set of rules and regulations and norms from the culture, from the religion. And if you stray from them — what will people think of you, your family, your future, your actions, your beliefs, in every second of what you look like.

Zainab: How do you find the balance? Because you're carrying the values from your parents, and then you also have those things that you're learning outside of home, being the American that you are. Where do you find the balance? That must be a real struggle.

Saema: You carve out your own. You carve out a new identity. First generation carves out a new identity that their parents have not seen, and that the country they are being brought up in has not seen. It is new. This is what I've learned. It is completely different. My children who are second generation will be different — their journey will be different than mine. But we've had to create an identity. And my identity is probably different than anyone else's. I was just catching up with a friend of mine who grew up first generation with me. I've known her my whole life. Who she assimilates with is completely different than who I do. I assimilate with both. I'm American and Pakistani, I have a lot of Pakistani friends. I've met a lot of friends from all different countries of the world. Where do I fit in? I fit in by being me — I talk about my culture. I talk about the language, the food, everything I implement in my house. And then I'm also very much American. What I've come to realize is that I'm not going to be Pakistani enough for the Pakistanis. I'm not going to be American enough for the Americans. But I'm me. So it's not really worth figuring it out, because their assessment of me is not going to define me.

Zainab: You keep saying me. 

Saema: I'm Pakistani and American, that's how I define myself. 

Zainab: But how does one understand that? 

Saema: Like — you don't understand what that means, right? And that's part of the challenge. You haven't navigated being first generation. You've spent time in Africa. 

Zainab: Enlighten me.

Saema: Well, you pull from both. You pull from the culture and the country you're raised in. So let's take something minor — the kids eat primarily Pakistani food in my house. We do the Eid celebrations and Ramadan. We do wear the clothes. The weddings are the same. We do all of that. And then we do Halloween and we do holiday parties because we're a blended family. We do a lot of the American things. We get out and do all the cultural things — we go to the fair, we go to the little festivals that are happening. We partake in other cultures. We go to the Greek festival, we go to this festival. Those things didn't happen in Pakistan because those communities weren't there. They weren't set up. So we do all of that. That's probably considered very American to many Pakistanis. Or — why is Saema's favorite Halloween? I just love a good costume, you know. But that's probably more American, they think that way.

Zainab: How did your parents come to be accepting of that? It was probably challenging.

Saema: I think my parents are very open minded. My mom's a psychiatrist. She sees what happens when you close people in boxes — it ends up faltering in many ways. So they're very open minded. But were they strict and very adamant about adhering to the Pakistani culture? Yes. You know, I wasn't allowed to go out late. I wasn't allowed to go alone sometimes with a group of friends if they didn't like the environment. There were stricter conditions. But they were pretty liberal in allowing me to explore myself. Their professional experience with it allowed them to loosen the threads. But I think where I had big problems — and we've talked about this before — is that everyone —

Zainab: What were people going to think?

Saema: The way you dress, show up at all the religious mosque functions and the cultural parties — show up to all of them. When I wanted to be out with my friends, maybe watching a movie — I had to be very, very present. Because the community and the culture, really, if they don't see your face or what you're wearing and how you're moving about the room, then you are not present. You don't exist. And if you don't exist, they blame your parents for that upbringing.

Zainab: So how did your parents, your mom, tackle this whole phrase of Log Kya Khange about her daughter?

Saema: Oh, you'd have to ask her. But I'm sure people didn't say very good things. I'm a very bold, blunt person. I remember the first time someone told me, in Islam, you should cover your hair. My response to that person — in a public forum — was: if God wanted me to cover my head, he would have given me ugly hair. That was my response. It sounds absurd, but this is the person I've always been.

Zainab: How did they tackle it?

Saema: A lot of scolding, a lot of blushing. A lot of oh my God.

Zainab: Were you outcast from your community?

Saema: I was never outcast because, you know what, maybe I was and I didn't know it — because I moved around a lot after college. But my mom has always been proud of me being vocal and outspoken. She's always told me she just wishes it was subtly done. Now she's happy that I'm like this as an adult. But she has told me — the middle school and high school years of you doing this, I'm not surprised, but really. Could you have dumbed it down a little? And I have two brothers. They loved it. They would always be like, yeah — this is who she is.

Zainab: So what happens when you go visit Pakistan?

Saema: So we go every couple of years to our uncles and aunts.

Zainab: What happened?

Saema: They all think I'm this nice, sweet little angel, which I am. I'm just a loud one. I think they don't know how to handle me. I speak very American. My Urdu isn't great. I'm very bold, I'm proud. And I'm not shy about saying — this is a bad idea, I'm not doing that, I don't want to do that. Maybe that's considered American.

Zainab: I think that's confidence. Knowing your art, I find you very direct. I think this is the reason why we get along — because you hold me accountable.

Saema: I do remember now that you say direct — when we were going through the rishta scene and my mom had suitors, the boys would come around. And my mom was like, so maybe you should be direct, but like, not direct. And I go, that doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't even work. How do you do that? And then I responded with — would you want your daughter with some guy who just dominates her because she's quiet and submissive? And then I'm also setting myself up for a failed relationship by advertising myself as someone else. And then my mom literally said, I think you're going to have to do this on your own.

Zainab: Really? So let's go to your blended marriage because I love your husband, Mark. He's such a great guy. And thank you, Mark — you are the reason I met your beautiful wife. And I don't even remember Mark anymore because I'm just occupied with you all the time. So marrying Mark — was that a decision? Was that a little bit of a rebellion in you? How did that choice come about? And then what did the Log Kya Kahenge fit in? How did that fit in?

Saema: So it wasn't a rebellion, and it wasn't that I was looking for someone outside of my culture. I was looking for a partner in life. And that's part of what many South Asians may say — oh, she's so American. She did this. And they do say that. They have said that. I was looking for a partner and I had met Pakistani men. Conversations were good. Something was off. I wasn't looking for a culture. Would it have been a little bit easier? In some ways, yes. You probably understand how you navigate this world — the culture, the same language, same food. But I wasn't looking for someone from a certain country or religion. I was looking for a partner because I had seen too many marriages around me. When you're looking for two things and not the whole picture, the relationship fails. It's just like everything else in life. If you're only going to put 20% in, or the criteria is only the top two but the most important one is at the bottom, it's going to falter.

Zainab: So I'm going to take a step back because, you know, medical profession is where you're at. And in our culture, many people want a doctor. So I'm sure you were sought after. How did that go for you?

Saema: So there were a lot of, let's say, proposals. I have two brothers who are very involved in the community. And it's funny — my brothers, my mom would say, don't you guys know anyone? And they'd be like, yeah. None for my sister though. They knew too many bad things about those guys, or they didn't think it was a good relationship, or they knew my personality. It was like — they're just not going to tolerate her. There were options, and I entertained many of them in conversation and in person.

Zainab: You're going to have to slow down — I'm really interested in how did that conversation go? With each of the guys?

Saema: Yeah, but it's not that they were bad. There was just something missing. I had conversations, I met and hung out with many of them and got to know many of them over time. There were probably about 3 or 4 main ones. But something just didn't fit. I couldn't — I don't even have specifics. It's just something felt off. Something wasn't natural. It's kind of like how you and I met — the conversation just has to be real and deep and no fluff around it. And I felt like I was never getting to a level I wanted.

Saema: And I met Mark online and our conversation started online, and we just kept going and going and chatting. It took a while for him to ask for my number — that's a whole other story. I was in New York. I was doing my residency in Cleveland. He was working in Cleveland, he was from Ohio. I met him online, and I remember I was trying to visit my friends in New York, and I got stuck in a snowstorm there.

Saema: And I finally just said — listen, my phone doesn't work, there's a snowstorm. I don't know why I made that up, but — here's my number. And we started chatting. But our conversations and texts, happening over a few weeks, were probably more deep and real than anything I'd had before. And I remember — one of the first questions he asked me was: you're flying anywhere in the world, where are you going? It's Madagascar. I always wanted to go to Madagascar. It's on the top of my list. Nothing before that had been that real or deep. It extracted so much of me — the travel I love to do, where I want to go. And then he asked me why, more than any other conversation I'd ever had. And that's what kept me entertained and kept me going. And it was just a very real natural flow. But was it easy to navigate introducing him to my family? Yes and no. I waited until both my brothers were married. I met Mark after my younger brother was getting married. And that's why I did that. And I'll openly say it is because I was worried — what will people think if the only girl in the family is not marrying amongst the community, will it ruin things? My younger brother was soon to get married to Aisha, who is amazing. I have two of the best sisters-in-law in the world. I'm so blessed, and I loved her for my brother. My brother loved her. I loved their relationship. I didn't want their family to think anything. By the way, their family is lovely and probably would have never said anything.

Zainab: It's interesting that you actually had that thought — that you did it on purpose, to get married after them. Your relationship doesn't impact theirs.

Saema: But that's the very Pakistani thing, you know. Log Kya Kahenge.

Zainab: Exactly. It was strategically done.

Saema: And then my parents met him at my residency graduation, by the way. The whole class knew and they were all in there watching the interaction, which is really cute. I was not living with my parents. My younger brother was at home with my parents and it seemed kind of flawless from living afar. Mark went up to meet my brothers, hung out with them, which was a very big deal to me. I loved that he took that initiative to get to know my brothers and my family on his own. I was getting ready to move to Philadelphia. And I spoke to my brother years later — I was surprised mom and dad did not have an issue. And Rizwan told me — actually, you weren't there for the conversations. And I said, I figured that, yeah. And I had a feeling, but I didn't know how to bring it up. So it wasn't all bad. It was more fear. And their fear was — we don't know anything about his culture, his values. Because values are tied so much to culture. Whether they should be or not is a whole different conversation. But they are, and for many good reasons. And because they didn't understand or come from his culture, they were afraid that he wouldn't be a good partner for me. Because that's so much ingrained in our belief system. You don't marry people, you marry families. They didn't know enough about his family. They had met his parents and thought they were lovely people. But not enough to feel, because of the cultural difference, that they would be inclusive of me as a new family member. And I can see that from their perspective. And they were afraid of the nuances — how is she going to feel comfortable? How are we going to keep the culture alive? What about the kids and the religion?And these are normal questions to me now. I just wasn't there for these conversations. My brothers did most of this and I love them. They're the best brothers. And they navigated that because they really loved Mark when they got to know him. They absolutely loved him. So they helped keep my parents at ease and answer many of these questions that I didn't know was happening. But I can understand them now. But if I was in the room having those conversations, I probably wouldn't be as understanding — because when they're addressed to you directly, or you're seeing the emotion behind them, it's hard. Especially when you're in that limbo stage of almost getting married.

Zainab: But they had questions and concerns. And how did your parents, your family, break this into the community? Did they have to face some kind of backlash?

Saema: I think they just said it, because how are they going to avoid it? My mom is not someone who beats around the bush. What's the point? You give one lie, you have to make up 500 after that. She just said — Saema met someone. He seems like a great person. He has a great family. He's not Pakistani, he's not Muslim. And what else are they going to say? I think there probably was, like, she's probably tried to meet someone — a kind of justification — and that's okay.

Zainab: Did you ever have an auntie who said, "Oh, is ko koi Pakistani nahi mila hoga, is liye gore se shaadi ki hai."

Saema: I'm sure people said that. But you know, what people did say to me after my wedding is that you made such a big dramatic thing about having a white man come into the community — and a dramatic wedding, which it wasn't.

Saema: I was post-call. I got married. My mehndi was after I had done a 24 hour call.

Zainab: Wow.

Saema: So it wasn't pomp and circumstance. I was just doing my training and trying to function. I've had some sly comments, though.

Zainab: Oh.

Saema: Like — when my kids come around. Oh, you're so Pakistani with them wearing the clothes. But you married out — I'm like, I see. What is your definition of Pakistani or American? Why are you so interested? I've had a lot of people say — later on in life — oh, your husband's like Serbian and Italian and all this. Oh, how does that work? Oh my God, we just get up the same way you do. We're a blend of different cultures. Oh, what do the kids do then? They do probably the same thing your kids do. You know, it's very ignorant. I understand it because I come from a culture and I grew up in this. But there are a lot of invasive questions like — what's going to happen when they're older?

Saema: I don't know, I'm just trying to navigate the three and five year old right now. He was two last week.

Zainab: You know, raising your kids in a different culture — how do you balance that? What are you and Mark thinking about?

Saema: So this is a challenging one. And this is a question I get asked by a lot of my residents and fellows who are trying to blend cultures — like, what do you do about the kids? And this is what I navigate day by day, and I learn from that. I do love being Pakistani. I love everything that comes with it.

Zainab: Oh, I know you do.

Saema: I do, I do.

Zainab: I thought so, based on what you wore today.

Saema: Well, you didn't like my outfit.

Zainab: That was okay. I have to be honest.

Saema: You can. This is why we're here.

Zainab: This is how I see Saema — my friend. And then the outfit was 1 million miles away from her. 

Saema: Did you like the outfit? Or you didn't like the person wearing the outfit — or them together?

Zainab: I think the outfit had its own place. And Saema, my friend, had her own place. But they didn't meet.

Saema: This goes along with what we're talking about. Your impression of me and your image of the outfit and the image of Saema didn't go together. But that's first generation. There are two opposites, but they just did not fit.

Zainab: I never want to see that side of you. 

Saema: I want to bring it to the podcast. I'm going to wear a khussay, a Paranda. 

Zainab: But you have to warn me — I see you a certain way. I like the Pakistani-American version of you, my way.

Saema: I'm telling you, when you're first generation, you come at all angles and no one's ready for it. That's the reality.

Zainab: No, but see — the way I see first generation, and I've seen quite a few — when they put the Paranda on, it just doesn't go with them. It doesn't go with the personality. You're actually trying too hard to fit into something where you don't need to.

Saema: You are literally defining the problem with being first generation. This is exactly why we're here. Because you can't put two together. But that's the reality of being a blend of things. Because you think that traditional outfit doesn't go with me. And I'll tell you, I've dressed like that my whole life — when I wear Pakistani clothes. But you can't see it. If there's a style problem, you didn't like the style — that's a different thing. But that's the reality.

Zainab: I have to see you in more Pakistani clothes. To be honest, I haven't seen you in that many Pakistani clothes.

Saema: There you go.

Zainab: So I looked at you yesterday, I walked in, I'm like — no, that's not working for her.

Saema: So you just said I was too American for the outfit and the outfit was too Pakistani for me?

Zainab: Correct. You two didn't belong together. You didn't need it. You did not need to interview me. You just — you live with that.

Saema: But that's exactly what it's like navigating this. You are — and still to this day.

Zainab: Do you remember the first time we sat in these chairs and you tried to say Log Kya Kahenge, and I burst out laughing?

Saema: Yes, I do remember, darling. That's exactly what happened last year. It's very hard being me, right? So getting back to the kids — I want to get back to that because this is a very challenging one and this one I don't have an answer for. I can just tell you what I'm doing to try to replicate cultural values. Whether you suppose I married a Pakistani person — second generation is harder. We know there's data on this — as the lineage gets farther and farther from the root, it is harder to replicate. Okay, now you're a blended family, but you want to instill all those values and you want to have all the cultural systems put in place. But you are no longer 100% of that. You're probably 75, 50% of that. And now you're looking at it's already being diluted. So you have to make it a priority to do it. And it's very hard. So my kids — I know you don't like my Urdu — my kids understand Urdu because I speak Urdu to them at home. God, it's better with them than you. It's a little annoying. That's the whole thing. But Mark even understands certain things — maybe tone of voice, certain phrases — because I speak Urdu at home. So the kids understand. Even my parents are like, how do they understand all of what we're saying? I go, well, because they hear it. But it's hard because you want to slip into English very easily, too. And you have to remind yourself — you're only with your kids a certain amount during the week. You have to put an emphasis on that. You do. You have to. It's very hard. So it's easier for me to put pasta on the stove and boil it and put some sauce, right. But you have to make the keema aloo. You have to make the daal chawal. You have to do the tandoori chicken. I do all that to make sure they have those cultural experiences. They also like it — I'm not forcing it. But these are small things that I'm trying to cling on to, similar to what my parents did, to try to move it forward. Now, the strict rules, the strict cutoffs and certain things — I'm more flexible about because, you know, I am American too. But it's hard to decide when you want to be American versus when you want to be Pakistani.

Zainab: Both of them, every single second of the day. I just don't think — how can you be that? Because — so you don't understand that. Help me.

Saema: There are millions of people just like me who are a blend. They're first generation American. This is what we are, Pakistani-American. This is a phrase, people.

Zainab: She is on a completely different planet because I have never met anybody like her. But I adore her. I love her to death.

Saema: But you're also like — I love you too. But do you see why? It's very hard to navigate this. You do not understand it. And most people — the Pakistani people never understood me. The Americans never understand me. And still you're sitting in front of me, knowing me, and you don't understand. That's what makes it so challenging. You go to any country and the first generation kids, it doesn't matter where they're from — it's tough. Because you are both, but no one has allowed you to be. And you don't know what both looks like. So you are defining both. You are actually being both. And it's funny, when I was older, I used to ask my mom — psychiatrist, I told you — yeah, you had so many struggles growing up, coming here, the culture and everything. And she was like, you know, but first generation is very difficult too. And I wanted to be like, wait, what? Who are you? My mom. Like, yes. You finally get it. And she goes, no, it is very hard. It's extremely hard because you don't have the groundwork and the guidance from your parents. You're almost alone on this whole terrain, trying to navigate it with fear and expectations from one side and wanting to live and do what the American side wants to. So you carve out your own identity.

Zainab: So what is that one thing you want to say out loud that you couldn't, that you can use this platform to do?

Saema: To be honest, the one thing is that you can be both. And both means one thing to — I'm Pakistani-American. That is one person to me. And to you it may not be. To many people.

Zainab: I'm learning from you. It is why I am learning a lot. This is eye opening for me because maybe I didn't see things very clearly, you know. But maybe this is the reason I've always been attracted to, like — you know, the brown men in the white skin, or — no. The white men in brown skin. What did I tell you before? Maybe this is the reason I always liked the ABCDs, right? I mean, this is my type.

Saema: We're in you. We are a new breed to you, too. If you think about it, you always learn from people you're not so familiar with. You can be both. And that doesn't mean you flip a switch. It's who you are, 24/7. 

Zainab: When you are around all of the Desi community, the Pakistani community that are not first generation — Yeah. First generation. What are your thoughts on that? I'm not asking for judgment. I'm asking — how do you feel? What are you seeing in us?

Saema: I don't see anything different in you than me. I really don't.

Zainab: See, this is why we're friends.

Saema: I don't see anything different. But I'm a firm believer that you should be who you are. You should assimilate with who you want to assimilate. No matter where you go in life, no matter what person you are, no matter what sex you are, no matter what country you're from. You cannot be enough for someone else. Your job is not to be enough for someone else. Your job is to navigate this world learning who you want to be. So I don't say my parents are from Pakistan but I was born in America. I am Pakistani-American. Or actually, most of the time I say I'm Pakistani because usually when people ask you, they're inquiring about your cultural background. So I say I'm Pakistani. But if you were to ask me — I'm Pakistani-American.

Zainab: Well, you taught me a lot today. And Pakistani-American doesn't mean you're less Pakistani and it doesn't mean you're less American. That's what I want to emphasize. That's who you are. I learned something today. So — anything you want to share with us? What do we need to know about you that nobody knows. Come on. It's just between the two of us.

Saema: I'm bold and I'm loud and I'm proud, but I'm also quite reserved.

Zainab: And what is that, like an introverted-extroverted introvert or something?

Saema: My mouth has gotten me in a lot of trouble. I absolutely do not think before I speak. But I'm very proud of who I am. I think my parents instilled that in me, and having two brothers — sandwiched between them — you have to have thick skin. You also have to be proud of who you are. And I think that I do a good job of that, and I'm learning. I would like to think I'm young in the whole spectrum of my life, if I'm blessed. I take everything I learn and I love for my patients, for myself and my husband, for my parents, for my siblings.

Saema: And I absorb it. And I really think about it when I let it out. When I was younger, I was just bluntly speaking and I wouldn't think. And that used to get me in trouble. And it also didn't really help me analyze my situation and myself and how I got to my identity. Now, it may change in ten years. By taking what my parents instilled in me, taking from what I saw in the surroundings, and seeing what I wanted to implement into my life. There were many things in American culture I didn't feel like I fit in with, and there were many things in the Pakistani culture that didn't fit with me. But I blended from both to find out what I want to be — by analyzing and assessing it, maybe trying it out, and then really carving out my own identity. And that's what I want to instill in my kids. Just know who you are.

Zainab: Sharing all this with you, I'm learning something new about you. And I always, always love you. 

Saema: And you know what I've learned?

Zainab: Yeah?

Saema: I better take screenshots of myself dressed up in my outfits before I go anywhere with you.

Zainab: Please do. You won't be sorry. You know, I will always give you the honest opinion.

Saema: Here we are. Yeah, I was trying really hard. I love it, honestly. But I think you were just like — even Mark was like, gosh, she doesn't like this whole thing going on.

Saema: You see, I was like, I don't care. It's who I am. But I always love you.

Zainab: I love you, too. I love the fact that you're so comfortable in your own skin with who you are. And that's why I think I'm so attracted to you.

Saema: Thank you. I'm just trying here. I'm trying here. 

Zainab: Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing with us.

Saema: Anytime.

Zainab: And we'll be back next time.

Saema: Thank you.