Permission to Rest

Rest isn't earned — but no one told us that. In this episode, Dr. Saema Tahir brings her sleep medicine expertise to a truth so many women resist: rest is not a reward for getting everything done. It's a biological need — and for women raised to keep everyone else comfortable, giving yourself permission to rest may be the hardest unlearning of all.

Auntie Please content is for educational purposes only and it is not medical advice. Please consult with your own doctor. 

Transcript

You can laugh all you like right now, because I'm about to ask you some crazy questions so we are going to change the format up a little bit. Because I think I would really like to understand a few things from you. Right. Okay. So what is the thing that comes to your mind when I say the word rest?

The desire to or the inability to? However you want to... Those both come to my mind when you say there are two parts. Okay. At the same time. Okay. Wonderful. All right, so we have two, two directions. All right. So I have a series of questions. I'm going to go through it and let's see you know. we'll play a little rapid fire.

How about that. Okay. Okay. So question number one, we say Pakistani women don't rest, which is you know, I'm sure you've heard about all the time, but actually, is it that Pakistani women don't know they're allowed to rest because there's a difference between can't and won't and was never given permission. Which one is it, really? I think it's all of the above.

I don't think any women are good at acknowledging they need to rest. I don't think they know how to rest. I don't think they give themselves time to rest. I don't think others allow them to rest either. I'm very bold. But that's truly how I feel. There's an interesting take that I, you know, did a little research on this concept. Zee and her rabbit holes at midnight.

You know, that's this is why you're not resting because you're going into rabbit holes. Stop turning this around on me. I'm just trying to bring all the facts to all our viewers, to, you know, to our friend. In Islam, rest is actually commanded. The body has rights over you. There is a whole theological framework for rest.

So how did we, so how did a deeply religious culture end up producing women who feel guilty for sitting down. Where did the religion go and the guilt stay? Well, I think this brings up the concept that religion is so intertwined with cultural beliefs. I think the rest aspect, or the inability to rest from whatever reason that may be, is culturally ingrained and the religion says something else.

But culture also overshadows some aspects of religion, depending on where the culture is. Yeah, but shouldn't it should be the opposite, right? But that shows how heavily culture nfluences your religious beliefs or how you practice them. You are a byproduct of both, but in essence, like you are allowed to rest because Islam tells you that.

I'm allowed to. Listen, we're saying everyone should rest, right? Right. So I'm going to change this a little bit because you know how I love this thing with the genders a gender comparison, right? So if a Pakistani man sits down after dinner, we call it relaxing. If a Pakistani woman sits down after dinner, we call it laziness. Same chair, same sofa, completely different meaning.

And log kya kahenge is watching both of them. When did rest become gendered? I think from the beginning of time, I don't ever recall my grandmother really, truly resting with the rest of the family or the guests that were over. I barely remember my mother doing that either up until I was probably in my late teens. She was always constantly doing things what I like to call after hours, meaning after the day's tasks were supposed to be done.

All actually, I'm sorry mom, they were done for the rest of us, you know? And now I find myself in her shoes and barely resting after my hours. Wow. So it's just carrying on. It's truly carrying on. Talking about carrying on. Let's talk about hospitality, because I think Pakistani hospitality and the rest are in a war.

Every time a woman tries to wrest hospitality wins. Someone might come over. Someone might be chai, someone might need something. And log kya kahenge if the chai isn't ready. Is Pakistani hospitality actually a beautiful cultural value, or is it also very effective system for keeping women on their feet permanently? What is your take. That's a very interesting question.

Hospitality is so much a part of our culture and we all love to do it. We like the fine details. We love the love that we translate with the food we make and the details of how we build the table and it's so much a part of us. Culturaly, it's so much of an open door policy.

And, you know, the way I was brought up, at least. But yes, the work never ends. Then there's no end point, because when you're hosting, when you have every meticulous detail that you want come to position, it's very hard to rest after that. There's always an aftermath when everyone's out. There's an end point for everyone. There's an aftermath for us is how I look at hosting.

So yes, when I host, whether it be, you know, friends or playdates, I usually love the whole family. Absolutely. I'm setting myself up for a lot of work after there's no end point. You just reminded me of something because I do that too, even though my mom and my sister always yell at me saying like, you can either entertain or you could do all of the cooking and cleaning.

But I take so much pride and cooking all of the meals. Whether it's for two people or 20 people, I've actually done it for 100 people as well, all on my own. I take a lot of pride and then I'm exhausted. Too tired to be hospitable to anybody. And you are right in that day, you're just you're so drained. The night I was so drained.

I agree with you. It's like I'm the same way. And I think this is so much a part of our culture. I do this with our playdates. I have the parents and the kids come over at one playdate. They're all me making fresh pasta with my husband, or there is some activity, but I set up the table for food, brunch, a dinner, whatever it is.

And it's a lot of work and I want every detail. But it's enjoyable and I love doing it, but the work really starts for me more so at the end. After the fact. Anybody help you clean up, or even then you want to do it yourslef. But I'm also detailed about how I want to clean up.

Always the case, but it's still no matter what. If there's one person out there there are things that need to be done and the way I like to do them. And am I trying to say that I'm a control freak, I don't know. No, actually, I think you just reminded me that all Pakistani women are control people, because I see this with my sister as well.

We always want to try and help her, but she always wants to do things her way, her way and no other way. And I so, you know, I'm that way too. And I feel like you are like that. But perish the thought that I try to put my mothers pots and pans in her cupboards. And she now will not allow it.

She just says no. Even that is so difficult? What did you do? Stack them up? Probably, I don't know. Oh my God. Okay. Moving on. Pakistani women are extraordinary at taking care of everyone else's body. Making sure everyone ate, making sure everyone slept, making sure everyone has what they need. Why is the one body that cannot seem to take care of their own?

This is an interesting question, because I think a lot of what we feel like we're supposed to be from what, we we shadow a lot of it, and we see our mothers, our grandmothers doing all of it. So part of it is that we feel like we have to be this way to care for everyone, be the last one standing, to be the last one resting to make sure everyone's provided for.

Taking care for every detail is set in order and prepared for the next day. And part of it is, I wonder if it's this need to feel like we are important in many ways, or that we are wanted or needed. I think that's part of it too. Wow. There is a language for that. What is that?

Oh, you just said it. Oh, yeah. Wanted needed, like important and very much needed. Yeah, that's part of it as well. But that's the language. Some fulfilling feeling or emotion, a point validation of our existence, you know. But do you think that's like that in every culture? Or, just Pakistani. You know, I can't comment for every other culture.

So I don't know. I don't have an answer for that. And for me to answer that would be judging it based off of a couple people that I see, to be honest. But I think that Pakistani women are proper. I think we're very detail oriented. I think we're a little bit very meticulous, and I think that we care so much about log kya kahenge.

And if the details aren't there, the presentation isn't there, the cleanliness isn't there, and the house isn't spotless at the end of it. It's almost as if we're not doing it all in the way we're supposed to. You just reminded me of something that I wanted to share with you. So you talk about this, the house being spotless, that any time I travel the night before, I need to make

sure, my home is spotless with the fear that god forbid there was a water break down, I mean, or something. A water leak or so and someone has to come into my apartment. I want to make sure that my apartment is spotless, of course spotless, because what would, you know, log kya kahenge. That kind of thing with me, I would put my groceries in the fridge so people who open the fridge, would know that there was something there.

I'm very crazy that way. But it's all, do you realize we do all of this for what other people will think? And over time, I think it becomes what we need because now we're so used to it. I have a question this may be off topic, when you get back from a vacation, do you unpack right away, or do you let the suitcase sit? Within five minutes at 1 a. m., 2 a. m.?

It is out, it's for four. No, I don't do my husband's, three people. Oh. It has to be done. It will eat me alive. I will not be able to sleep. I'm saying that because I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be the hypocrite. I would probably judge you a little bit if you let it sit for a bit.

Just kidding. But you've met your match because I do the same thing. My luggage is unloaded literally in like 15 minutes within walking into the home and I, you know, I'm done. Hey it was meant to be. Wow. That's why we get along, right? It's a very big topic of conversation. Yeah, maybe for another day.

Also, we need to elaborate. Alright, moving on. I'm going to ask you something uncomfortable. Do you think Pakistanii women are addicted to busyness? Like, is the constant doing actually a coping mechanism is staying busy a way of not having to feel something? I think so, yes. I think we stay busy to well, first of all, I don't think we've ever had the time to reflect and ponder.

So as you mentioned this earlier, men get to relax and enjoy and women are always constantly doing something or keeping them so busy. If you've never had the time to rest, how do you know? How are you to be aware? Know how to process the thoughts that come into your mind when you're resting? So I think probably that you avoid, there's some avoidance there.

I think that we kind of pigeon hole ourselves into, you know, this need to do everything to maybe avoid some degree. I don't know if that's true. For all everyone I know in myself, I find moments of doing that when I get overwhelmed with the schedules of everyone in the house, etc., or having to go figure out the task for the next day.

I find myself doing more tasks in the moment to avoid sitting there and having to just like, think about processing other things. Oh my god, that was just going to be my next question for you, because I had that theory that Pakistani women don't rest, because rest requires you to be alone with yourself, you know? And we're never taught to enjoy our own company.

We were taught to be useful to others, but the moment the doing stops, there is nobody home. What do you think happens to a woman when she finally stops and meets herself for the first time? I've been doing a lot of reflections. I would love to hear your thoughts. I think it's challenging in the beginning. It's hard to process thoughts and emotions that you've never dealt with before.

I think it's very liberating as you allow those to build up, though, and give yourself the time to analyze and understand. I find it challenging though, because it depends on what the moment is. When I'm overwhelmed with new thoughts and processes, it's troublesome to just address them right away. But I do think that we don't allow ourselves the moments to think and reflect.

They just spent their entire life being so busy that they have no moment to have a true reflection. I think for a majority of Pakistani women, that is true. Absolutely. And if you've never had the time or the build up, you know, training yourself builds you up. So if all of a sudden you're allowing yourself to do it overnight, it's hard.

It's so much is being bombarded with you and now you don't know how to analyze, process and regurgitate out your assessment of that. It's very emotionally heavy, very psychologically heavy. And everyone has problems going on in their life. Everyone has faced the various forms of difficulties, and in our moments of stillness is when those come to our mind.

And if we've never been still, we've never been able to process those difficult moments. So how are we supposed to understand, comprehend and sit with that more than a second? I'm trying to sit with it lately. How's that going? I built two apps sitting idle. It's like you're a different breed. And I live alone, right.

And I'm really trying to reflect on like, okay, what am I reflecting on? I better get to work. But I have a question. You're building something external to you, maybe utilizing your experiences from life, but are you sitting in those still moments analyzing yourself, though? No. Not really. Right. So you're also staying busy?

Guilty. Really? So, you know, because that's the thing with every time I try to do the reflection and I have been trying very hard, you know, it's just like a five second thing. And then my mind ships and I'm like, you know what? I've got to get moving on about things to do. You know this, it's very hard because when my husband and I disagree on something, he's not wrong and I'm not right and I'm not wrong or I'm not right, whatever it is.

But it's a different perspective. And to sit still, I do this often when he says something that it's not typically in my characteristics or what I would have done, not that he's wrong. But to stomach that, swallow it, accept it and just move on from it. It's sometimes hard and and they're never huge things. There's just a different way of going about and doing things that are out of line with what I would do.

And I always find myself asking myself, Saema, why does this bother you so much? You know, it's not wrong. You knowthat's a totally valid, reasonable way to go about things. Why is it so conflicting? And I've had to self reflect really think about why I'm so rigid in so many things. Yeah. And that's hard because you have to pick apart yourself and your experiences and..

Yeah. And it's hard. I should be honest with you at this point in my life, I actually don't like being alone. Really? Yeah. I'd like to be alone. Okay. All right, all right. Okay. That's the thing is, the grass is always greener on the other side, right? You know, my whole life revolves around keeping people alive, at work, at home.

Yeah, I mean, I yes, I'm always, like, processing a lot of thoughts like reflection and family and, and friends. And I'm like, okay, I've had enough. Enough of self-reflection today. Move on. Yeah. That's hard though, to self-reflect. I mean, it's very, very challenging. And you have to really be critical of yourself. And no one's good at doing that.

Yeah. No one's good at that. That's hard when it comes from yourself. It's even harder because you're dealing with the truth, you know? But, you know, that's the thing. Like, I think, you know, in the last little while, I've come to the terms of myself that I can look in the mirror and say, I like who I am. I love that you know who you are.

Oh, thank you, I like I'm glad I'm meeting the one that likes who they are though. What if you were a nightmare before? Okay. Thank God like you missed her, right? You missed the boat. Okay, so moving on. We talk about rest is something you do after work. What if rest is also emotional?

What does it mean for a Pakistani woman to rest emotionally? To stop managing everyone's feelings? Stop keeping the peace. Stop being the emotional infrastructure of the entire family. Has any Pakistani woman actually done this. Is it even possible? It's possible. I think it's very difficult for a lot of Pakistrani women because we're not a culture that really likes to dive deep into our emotions.

And now the emotions are being presented to you and you're being asked how do we do this? Or how should we do this? It's hard. You have to understand those emotions and process them. We're allowed to do all of that. Do we know how to? Do we have the tools to do that? I'm doubtful. Yeah. You know, if we're the first ones opening some of these wounds, imagine, right, that it's very difficult.

I'm sure the aunties are really concerned. They're very concerned I really think they're wondering why we're resting right now. Of course. Actually, according to them, we are resting. We are. And I'm also wondering, does this does feel like resting because this is so out of the norm for us, right? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you don't think it's possible?

I think it's possible. Do I think that we are there as a whole as Pakistan women? I don't. I think we're halfway there. Again, we have to understand emotion to be able to sit with that emotion. And I think we don't, we're not there. I don't think that we want to really face the emotion. That's the issue.

So I think if we're given a moment to rest, we find anything we can do to avoid maybe confronting it. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. So that brings me to my next, you know, digging the rabbit hole, down the rabbit hole. The word sabr. Okay. Patience. Endurance is one of the most used words in Pakistani culture directed at women.

Okay, but just endure and log kya kahenge, if you stop enduring. Do you think the sabr has been weaponized? Do you think Pakistani women confused suffering with virtue for so long that rest started to feel like giving up? I think that sabr is very big, but it can be taken in many different ways, and I don't think we practice what we preach.

I think we are very big on saying sabr. I've been hearing that my whole life. I love the word sabr for many reasons, but I don't think that we allow ourselves to have that. Patience is a virtue to share. No I don't think we allow ourselves to do that. I don't think we know how to be honest. It's imposed upon women by, well, that word is really like, you know, something that's tagged to women, not so much men.

That's true. Har jeez mein sabr karo. That's what you are directed to do. So I think it's imposed upon us. Yeah. But I think we also don't practice it. That makes this sabr. Sabr karo. I think that we don't allow ourselves to. Well, I guess I should reframe it. It is imposed upon us to wait, to wait, to wait or to take time, be patient, etc. but I don't think we allow ourselves to do that because we're always keeping ourselves busy.

We're not allowing ourselves to truly, I think we're understanding the word very different, by the way. I don't think we allow ourselves to be patient with ourselves. We're patient with everyone else, but I don't think we allow it for ourselves. Right? I mean, like, we don't allow, you know, grace for ourselves. We don't. You know, I think that's a better way to put sabr when people tell you because, like, you know, endure it.

Did you say, just keep going, just doing, keep doing what you're doing it's going to get better. And we just go along with that, do that. You know, we go along with it without really realizing, you know, what it's doing to us, how it's impacting us, and that's how we should be thinking about, you know, what it does to us at the end of the day.

And the interesting thing is sabr also means patience. It does, it does. But like, you know, it's implied so that you continue doing that for the rest of your family. True. Yes. You know, but that is not implied for you. Meaning like you're not exercising sabr for yourself. Yeah. You know, it's for everybody else around you or because of everyone else. Well it is because you no longer, the implication of being a woman,

In Pakistani culture is that you live for everyone else, you come last and sometimes there's not enough left. I think I want to give a trophy to all the Pakistani women, like, how much do we carry? Too much. I don't think we reward ourselves enough. I don't think we're seen for what we do. That's true. You know, I don't think we're seen.

I think many women know how much they achieve in a day to day basis, how much they've achieved. But the the deeply needed external validation, how deep that is entwined and who we are is so much a part of why we're unable to see it sometimes for ourselves in the moment. Yeah. You know, we don't stop to reflect.

No we don't. No, we don't stop to, you know, kind of pat our own back because nobody does it. Even our friends don't do it. Family don't do it for us. Right. Very very true. So moving on if rest is resistance. And I believe it is. What exactly are Pakistani women resisting when they choose to stop. What is the system that needs them to keep going?

They are resisting what people are imposing on them? Because rest does imply in our culture that you're not doing what you're supposed to. That's my interpretation of it in many ways. And so you're resisting what everyone is imposing upon you the roles, the labels, the obligations. Right. And everything. And then there's the whole thing. What are people going to say if you resist?

Yeah, that's a huge heavy weight to carry in the culture. Moving on. So I need to understand the mathematics of Pakistani rest. If a woman sits down for 20 minutesand spends 18 of those minutes feeling guilty has she rested for 20 minutes or 2 minutes. I need a clinical answer. She hasn't rested at all. Guilt is not rest.

Okay, I love that. Not enough to transition from out of guilt. So she's not staying. I'm sorry. No, that's not rest at all. That's heavier than doing something easy as, like a task oriented. It really just. Still, it's no balls in your head. Yeah. Wow. We're back to zero, man. We just never have it easy. Do we? No.

So moving on. Pakistani women go on holiday and take their nervous systems with them. This is so true for all of us. You can relate. Physically in another country. Yeah. So physically you're in another country. Still managing the family. WhatsApp. Still worried about what's happening at home, still planning what to cook when they land, Log Kya Kahenge if she actually disconnects. Is it possible to actually rest in a Pakistani household, or do you have to physically leave the country and turn your phone off?

And even then, I don't even know how to physically rest. I just, maybe. Have you ever turned your phone off on a vacation? When it died, I took some time to turn it back on once and it was very liberating. But it was liberating in the last five minutes. The first few hours of it was very aggravating. No, I think leaving the country and turning the phone off doesn't turn the mind off, you know?

So no. But do the men go through that too? Would your husband be as concerned about what's happening back home? Is the food ready? Probably not in the way. Not in the meticulous like jabbing at my brain 24 seven. You know, way? I think that a lot of it, I also think that I think and I don't want to speak for him.

He knows that I probably am managing it And it's like, I'm so glad someone's managing it. See that's the thing. But I want to manage it because I don't know, my brain needs to carry that weight in order to feel.. this is a problem, to feel validated, feel and feel like I'm in control.

At least I'm doing everything I can to maximize if something goes wrong or if something's missing or, you know, and that's a personal problem, probably. Okay, moving on, doc, but when I'm in another country and the phone doesn't work, I And now I'm on overdrive. So it's actually worse for me.

I think most of us are like that. I need to spray some benzodiazepine in here. So moving on. I want to talk about the performance of tiredness because Pakistani women don't just get tired, they announce it. Okay. Maybe yes, right to the room. So the tiredness is witnessed. Why do we need an audience for our exhaustion?

Why can we not just quietly go and rest without the announcement? Because look. Really, I knew that was the answer. How dare you sit still. How did you have to shout from the rooftops in order to be heard? And in a culture that also wants you to be very quiet, by the way. So when a female Pakistani is saying, I'm tired, she has hit a wall.

Because normally we downsize and downplay everything and we don't like to be seen as though there's something wrong or negative. Yeah, I hate to say this, but culturally, being tired for a woman is seen as a oh man, wow. You know, so I think I'm going to move to another culture, you know? Is it better? I have no idea.

I think being a woman in every culture is a little bit challenging, but I think it's really like, I mean, outside of South Asian culture, like, really I need to like you need to do a human study about it. I don't know, I'm not sure. I don't have the answer for that. I think being a woman in general is very challenging.

And you have many defined rules and self-imposed rules. Yeah, roles and everything. And, you know, in society, we've always been classical and praying to think that you're sure you go to school, work, and then you are a mom and a child, you have all these new roles assigned to you. Men are similar. They become a dad, maybe a father, a husband, maybe a father.

But the offspring of that title seems to be different for women or, you know, always different for women. Yeah. You know, so men really get away with everything. It's funny how every episode we have actually kind of like laid out the different rules for men, you know, they get away with everything. And, you know, it's interesting.

I wonder if, you know, we're seeing a new generation of men that do really co-parent very well. And thelp in the house, some are stay at home. Do you think it is generational? I think it's a newer generational thing. I don't think it's transcending cultures yet, but I wonder if they ever feel odd about that because they've been so everything has been thrown at them from society.

They have to be the bread winner, the one that kind of covers all bases. But the mom is in the one doing all the details. I don't know, that's a whole other topic. I'm going to come back to this one comment you made earlier on, and you're gonna love this. So who taught Pakistani women that the cleanliness of their kitchen is a reflection of their character?

Because I think if we find that person, I can't even finish my question, because if we find that person, we find the origin of why Pakistani women that would answer so many questions. We honestly, I think the kitchen counter is, you know, we model so much of who we are based off of who we see.

Yeah. That kitchen counter I saw, that island, that Granite Island was cleaned at least eight times an hour. And if it wasn't meticulous, after the cleaning person had come to clean. I mean, this is mind boggling, but I do the exact same thing. Yeah. Do you? How many times a day? You know, it's embarrassing because I used to wonder about why my mom was like this, and now I'm on, like, round 20.

It's, you know, I think it first started for presentation and then it became a habit. Then it became this belief. And then it became a judgment. Yeah. You judge other people's counters. I do, I mean I sometimes do too. So should I come over. What about yours. Why do you think yours is more spotless than mine?

I don't know, like I'm literally cleaning every like 20 minutes.

We are crazy.

There's an assumption there that yours is cleaner than mine. I know, and I want to be the better one. Okay. What products? Okay, that's another conversation we're going to have. Let me get through this. So don't distract me okay. Next one. So here's the one thing that I think about. Pakistani women will spend hours making sure everyone else in the house is eating and then eat, standing up over the counter alone.

Log kya kahenge, if she sat down first, what did I say about how we value ourselves? And is that connected to why we can't rest? I think it's absolutely connected to why we can't rest. I often do this too, you know, sometimes in society today's 24 seven society, sometimes those micro moments of just sitting with the family or sitting by yourself, even in a restaurant, by yourself and sitting and really taking it in, is all we have with time in the day.

And if we don't do that, we're setting ourselves up for doing too much that we don't want to do. Those are few moments we have to really sit and enjoy the moment, and we don't allow ourselves to do that if we're standing alone. And I find myself doing this often where I want the food out of the table, I want everyone served.

I want to make sure the counter is clean, if there's food spilled. And in doing all of this, I'm the last one to eat and everyone's done. And then I'm alone. And it's depressing in a way, too, because nobody waits for you. And or, I mean, God forbid it they waited, you know, they don't wait for me. It's absolutely correct.

And I remember us doing this for my mom too we don't wait. And that is something that I think needs to be addressed in itself. That's a mannerism we usually do for everyone. You would never at a dinner table or at a restaurant, you wait for everyone to get their food at home the same way. It's an interesting concept you bring up.

Yeah. So yes, no one waits for me. My family.. No one waits for you to sit down or no one waits for you to finish. Oh. Because if you're the last one to sit, say, for example, you're sitting at the dining table and you started eating, watch how people get up, like, because they're done and they leave and you're the last one sitting there.

So it happens. That may be a reflection of my kids age, but it's sometimes that my husband doesn't. My kids do, but they're very little. I do notice that when I put the food on the table, though, everyone starts eating when I'm I'm still gathering etc. or doing something, and that's not necessarily their fault. I find myself doing too much, except for I should just be taking my plate and going to sit with them.

But I often find myself out putting the sink in the dishes, taking the stuff out of the oh my God, doing that so you don't prioritize you eating with your family when you should be. But there are moments at least once or twice a week that I find myself doing other things instead of living in the moment and doing that meal with them.

That's a me problem. That's not them. But no, but I think this generally a whole women problem because I see this all the time, but I have a really bad pet peeve, which is that, you know, when you're sitting at my dining table, you don't get up until I'm done eating. Yeah, that should be a yeah, yeah, they'll remember that.

I think when the kids are a little bit older, that will be the goal. I remember growing up, we sat down when everyone sat down, we ate with everyone. And then there was no concept of, can we be excused from the table? And I my kids should never say that to me, by the way.

Seriously. You know, I mean, they know. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about unlearning. What is the best thing about women needs to unlearn to give herself permission to rest. Not the second thing or the third thing, the very first belief that has to go. You don't need to do everything right now in this moment. That's hard.

It's very hard. It's how are you going to teach them this? Like how to teach anyone this. Boundaries, boundaries. Pakistani women need to know how to. I don't know. I don't even think they know how to spell the word boundary. I think that we have to allow ourselves to. We can do it all, but maybe we don't need to do it all right now. I find myself always wanting to do everything all at once and feeling, testing and feeling inadequate when I can't do all of it at once.

What's the I know if I can do it all at once, I can definitely do it gradually as well. So what's wrong with doing it gradually? Why does it have to be done in the moment? That's not a reflection of a fall or even a plus. You know, even though I think that that's what needs to be, we need to reorganize the way we think about how much we achieve and the timeline we achieve it.

Okay. So prioritizing okay. Moving on. I want to ask you about the body as a messenger, because I think the body tries to communicate fatigue, pain illness and Pakistani women override it constantly. Log kya kahenge. If she stops and listens to her body, at what point does the body stop asking and start demanding? And what does that look like?

I think that looks like the woman who's saying it, but that's what it looks like. You hit a wall. Yeah. And it's usually not because you're mentally tired. It takes a woman to have a physical ailment almost. Or like they can no longer stand to, like, collapse. You know, that's a tough one. That is a tough one.

Because how did you get to the extreme point? Yeah, but I think that we wait for that extreme point because we don't know how to intercept ourselves before that extreme point. So what do we do? We cause ourselves emotional, physical pain before we say I need a couple of minutes. That's setting ourselves up for failure and hurting us in the long run.

I'm going to ask you a question because I think it will be relatable to you since I don't have a daughter. If a Pakistani woman's daughter was exhausted and needed to rest, she would insist on it. Yeah, she would make her lie down, bring her tea, tell her to stop. Why can she do that? Why can she do that for her daughter, but not for herself?

What is the difference in her mind between her daughter deserving the rest and herself deserving rest? There is no difference. But we're more empathetic towards our kids and we don't allow that for ourselves. So there is no difference. You know, I want my daughter to model me. I absolutely agree with what you're saying. We will allow our daughters to take the time to go remove yourself, to take time lie down, sit down, whatever.

We just don't look at ourselves the same way. We really push ourselves to the limit for unnecessary reasons. So there's no difference. But I think we don't give ourselves grace. We're not compassionate towards ourselves. Right? That's right. That's the right word. We're not compassionate. We do not. We're not kind to ourselves, and we don't understand what it does to us in the long run.

We're unable to rest or unable to heal. You're unable to process or unable to understand. Comprehend. Right. You know. So here's the question I really want to ask. If Pakistani women started resting, really resting, what are they afraid would happen? Not the practical answer, the deep answer. What is the actual fear underneath the busyness? Is it still log kya kahenge?

Or is it anything else? I think it's log kya kahenge. And what would we say as well. Like now where we rest now we have open space for more, for new stuff to flood our brain. And I think that brings in a lot of uncomfortable thoughts that culturally we don't think about, you know, personal questions, how questions, emotional questions, difficult relationship questions, fear of the unknown question.

We have a moment to think about where we are in our life, where we were, where we're going. I mean, it's Pandora's box at that point. To stay busy is a distraction. Well, that's the language. Yeah. Distraction. I got last but not the least Doc I promise. If rest is a revolutionary act for Pakistani women. What does the revolution actually look like?

Not the Instagram version, not the bubble bath version. The real version. What does a Pakistani woman who has genuinely given herself permission to rest look like? And how do we get there? You know how we get there. We get there by boundaries. We get there by boundaries. And the boundaries have to start from inside of ourselves. Say no to doing it all at once, saying, you cannot do this until I sit on the table.

You cannot start, you know, putting boundaries in all aspects of our lives and saying no to the extra shift, the extra playdate, the extra role, the extra dinner to make and have, making the fresh naan tonight, whatever it may be, is just saying no once in a while and being okay with that. Because we are not okay with putting boundaries because we feel inadequate when we put those boundaries.

But then we're sitting here complaining about why we're unable to rest. So I'm talking about myself, to be honest, and I'm becoming a little bit better at this, giving myself grace to say no and be proud when I say no. But it's a little bit uneasy because sometimes when I say no, it's like you could have really just done it, but then I would have collapsed, you know?

So if we're going to start a revolution, we need boundaries. And boundaries start with saying no to ourselves, you know, and saying no doesn't mean that you're deficient in something? It means that you just don't want to or don't have the time or the bandwidth, and you just need some moments in order to function at your best the next day, or whatever it may be.

I wonder if it's also because we are in competition with other women. I think that's a big component of it. Yeah, for many women, I don't think for everyone, but I think for many women that yes, if she can do it, why can't I? Or she's doing it, so why can't I? She may be doing it.

She may not be loving it. Oh, you know, we never think about what we see. And she's doing it because she probably feels she has to do it because everyone modeled doing it 24/7. And everyone else she knows is also doing it. And I can guarantee she wants to collapse too. There are busy bodies. You and I are busy bodies.

We love doing all the projects, having all the lists, doing all that. But we love our rest too, you know? And I think that we also have to pencil that in and penciling in rest is hard for people who are wired like us, but so important for the longevity of us that that's a permission slip. Yes. You know, you are allowed to rest.

Yes. And it shouldn't just be a 30 minute pencil. And, you know, it's just it's also okay to not plan it in the day. It's also okay to say, you know, no, I can't handle this today. I'll put it off till tomorrow. You know, giving ourselves time amongst, we can achieve it all, which means we can achieve rest in our schedule.

We can do it all. Yeah, we can achieve that. We have to prioritize it. Yeah, I love that. What about an auntie please moment for you this week. Okay so my auntie please moment was I do I host a lot of playdate brunches I think. Yeah. I pointed out on this and I put the food and it's usually a different theme of food.

And the kids at the table maybe have a craft or maybe they're running around in their costumes or whatnot. Yeah, and I love doing it. But the details, I'm very detail oriented. I want everything lined up and I don't need those details, because what's the most beautiful memory of that brunch or dinner or whatever playdate it may be is like the laughs, the stories you told and the growth we had amongst the other families.

And so I had a family asked to get together this weekend, and I said, you know, I just can't do it. I can't host and I don't have the bandwidth. And she offered to just host the play date and do everything. And it may not be in the detail I want, but it's going to be perfect, it's going to be enjoyable and I just ran with it.

I let her do it. I don't need to host everything. I don't need to be the one to host. The details and the details aren't what I take away either. They make me feel good, but at the end of the event, someone else hosts it. I don't have to do anything. I get to actually go home and rest.

Which my friend, I'm happy for you. And it's growth. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so this is great. So what are we talking about? We need to do a permission slip. Don't avoid the permission slip when it comes rest. I know exactly what's happening here. Oh, God. I'm already thinking. Yeah, it's hard for people like you and I to rest.

I'm so wired. I'm always doing something, I feel. And again, it goes back to, like, coming from a family of overachievers and, like, always doing something I like. I can't have two minutes to myself because I'm wasting time. But that, first of all, that guilt is a negative. I mean, if you're going to carry that as guilt, a negative, the other thing that hyper arousal and a high functioning mind is usually a direct result of not resting or poor sleep, that that hyper arousal, it is directly from that.

So don't avoid this one. What is your permission set? My permission slip, I tell you,and you're going to laugh so when I don't want any clutter in my head, I've actually started to turn my hearing aids off. I absolutely love that. I can't hear anything around me. I just need quiet. This is the only way I can get quiet.

Now I have a question. Do you ever turn them off when you're with me, you can tell the truth. No. Not yet. You haven't annoyed me yet because I love you still. It'll Come there. It'll get to that point. You will start noticing the shift. Oh, you just won't be able to hear me. No, I will not be.

I'll be just nodding my head. But internally I'll be resting. I love that, though. Very smart. Yeah. It's like if I don't want to hear bullshit, don't want to hear or listen to TV or the music or, you know. Even sometimes the outside noise bothers you, right? Because it just keeps you going. I turn my hearing aids off because, like, dude, I'm resting, I love that.

Yeah, so that's how I know I'm screening you. Yeah. Oh, God, I just gave it away. Perfect. I love that you can do that too. Yeah. The reason I asked these questions, because I know that you have certain expertise with it. And this is why I think you're the best person to answer the question around rest and all.

So I would love for you to tell our viewers, our friends, your expertise. So I am a medical doctor and I'm a board certified physician and pulmonary critical care and sleep medicine. And I have a private practice for sleep medicine that primarily encompasses, our a patients are mostly middle aged women. I know we don't like that that term, but actually I want to say that there are women from all areas of life and different time periods in their life.

So we talk a lot about rest and race and permissions and boundaries in part of our medical approach to the treatment and allowing them to cover their bodies from years of neglect or just wanting to change for longevity reasons.