Anger

Anger and wrath. What are the differences. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Custodi nos in bello sacro veritas durig so we don't need to do any clapping because we have no video to uh that's correct to do that.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

So alright, folks, thanks for joining us on a journey through spiritual warfare, our audio podcast. Yeah. Yeah, our audio podcast. So today we're gonna talk about we're talking about anger, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah, this is um anger and wrath. This is important. Uh it was for me personally, it's something I still continue to struggle with, but um, you know, it's it's every day is you know a new challenge and we gotta just keep pushing forward.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

But um, like our previous episodes, I think it's important we talk about some uh examples of this in uh the biblical uh stories in history.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

And you know, it's really interesting because we have uh the first king, King Saul, who uh has his uh actual wrath, this anger that is to such a degree that he uh tries to kill soon soon to be King David, David and Goliath, um right multiple of times. Yeah, more than one, right? Yeah, so uh that's like wrath that beyond righteous anger in the emotional state.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

Yeah, so and and it's important to mention that. So Saint Thomas Aquinas, um so just like with love, you know, we were talking before we started recording that the English modern English, yeah, modern English typically in common parlance kind of is a is a lazy or we can call it efficient form of communication. So we just say anger as a catch-all term, but in Greek, um and in other languages they had more nuance in their words, right? And the um for for wrath, for anger, um they referred to anger in a more intense form, fury, wrath, and a disordered will. And there was St. Thomas Aquinas explains that anger can include different species or types of anger and intensity, like um uh a more intense of fury, uh uh choler, which is quickly aroused anger, um meaness, which is uh anger that it's an ill will that dwells in the memory and kotos. And I don't know if I'm pronouncing it exactly right, but and that's the type of rancor anger that never rests uh until it's avenged. It's a it's a furious anger, and it's morally worse because it it lacks mercy and it seeks vengeance, right? It's it and it's the those are the types of anger that in wrath that increase in intensity and it becomes more sinful because just plain anger isn't sinful in and of itself, it becomes morally sinful and gravely sinful to mortal sin levels when you start seeking revenge on somebody. Yeah, because righteous anger, of course, um, is not sinful. You know, we have examples of Jesus flipping the tables on the money changers in the temple. Righteous anger is not sinful, yeah, but it's a very thin and thin line. When anger starts becoming morally sinful and gravely sinful, is when, like I said, when it's disordered. Like so many things, like uh lust is lustful, lust lusting after somebody is sinful, gravely sinful and disordered when you're lusting after somebody. So it's all about the intent, you know? Yeah. So it's definitely uh when you want to wound somebody, when you want to harm somebody, when you want to take revenge on somebody, that's when anger becomes bad. And there's multiple places in the Bible where it says um anger is bad. Uh in Matthew, uh Jesus says, You sh, you know, everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment. In the Old Testament, in Sirach twice, uh it mentions does anyone harbor anger against another and expect healing from the Lord? Remember the commandments and do not be angry with your neighbor. Um Sirach again, see the warning about being hot-tempered. Uh Ephesians, every indignation and anger is removed from us, and be ye angry and sin not, let not the sun go down upon your anger. I I wonder if that's a translation or a transliteration issue. I think it's talking about wrathfulness instead of just anger as in being frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, I think it's um you know, and we talked about this a little earlier. It a basic emotional response to something like stubbing your toe outside of your memory and you're holding something, yeah. I don't see how that itself could be a sin.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Well, it can't it can't be sinful because it's about your intention, right? Yeah. If somebody walks up and strikes you unexpectedly and you get angry or frustrated, it's not, it can't be sinful because it's a reaction. However, if you hold on to it and you dwell on it, that's when you start getting into this territory of sin because you're choosing it, right? Yeah, and sin is sin has a couple of uh of um of criteria. Right. So in order for something to be at least for a mortal sin, there's there's you know, if I understand correctly, there's three criteria. It needs to be grave matter, there's needs to be gravely sinful matter, you need to have full knowledge and full consent. So you you it needs to be grave matter, you need to have full knowledge that it is grave matter, and then you have need full consent of the will. So you need to know that it's sinful. It has first of all, it has to be gravely sinful, you have to know that it's gravely sinful, and then choose to do it anyway. You know, so like you said, you need to like you need to be all in on it, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Well, yeah, and I think that it can't just be an auto response. The um dwelling in anger is the dwelling aspect, is probably the more important word as far as that it's consuming you to a degree that you're not able to function normally for whatever your your place in in the world is.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

And especially, like I said, when you when you get to the point where not only are you dwelling on it, but you want to harm the person. Now you go from one level of sin to a mortal level of sin because you you're actively seeking ways to harm the person.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

And you see that King Saul. Right. He takes his army and hunts King David, which takes away his situation of being king. Like he can't focus on his kingdom, uh, on his people, and he's removing the the military aspect to protect his people, right? Um, all because of um the fact that he's angry because he is no longer the anointed uh king uh of uh you know of the Jewish people. And he was told that.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

He was told that due to his own behavior and God didn't just take that away from him, he he did, he was it was removed from his actions, yes, and his sinful actions, let me clarify.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

It wasn't just on a whim. And you know, you you mentioned Jesus in the righteous anger with the flipping of the table. Um, we also were we were talking about um Jesus when it came to Peter, and the one time that is written that he didn't call Peter by Peter, there must have been some emotion of anger there when he says, get behind me, Satan.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah, you know, some frustration, yeah, disappointment, so which is a type of anger, I'm so I assume. Um obviously he didn't want to cause Peter harm. It's not anything of definitely not, but yeah, I mean it's gotta be something. I mean, Jesus, as a man, you know, obviously he didn't sin, but uh, you know, he had to be angry with Peter. He still had to have raw emotions in order to be a human being. Of course he did. Um, and but not rising to the level of sin. But we know he got angry, he flipped the tables. We know he got frustrated, but you know, he he called he called Peter the enemy. Yeah, it's it's uh, you know, so one of his best and closest friends, his confidant, you know. So, you know, it's it's we we gotta remind people that it's don't be scrupulous and say, Oh, I got angry, I need to go to confess. It's not about being angry, it's about remaining in anger, right? And then wanting to dwell in it and harm somebody. It's it's about your intentions. Um, scrupulosity, of course, in it is funny enough, or interestingly enough, is in and of itself a sin. And I suffer from it. I'm always like, Well, I don't think I did good enough, I need to go to confession.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah, you know, and so in the way I view anger in general, too, is there's an external aspect where you're angry with other people for for whatever the but the internal aspect is that depression, and again, that can be an emotional response because you feel you failed at whatever your task is, and that's fine. No, you mean like being angry with yourself? Yeah. I wonder if that's arguably more senseful if you're in a way depressed to a point that it's affecting your livelihood again, just the same thing as the outward anger, or if it gets to the point where you're trying to uh uh deliberately harm yourself. That's a great point.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

So it's not harming yourself. Like I want to harm someone, or I want to harm my someone being your myself. Yeah, so you get the same basis internally and externally. It's interesting how that that synergy, right? I'm angry with you, I want to harm you, or I'm hang I'm angry with me, I want to harm me. Or both.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

And you know, this is something I or I'm angry with me and I want to harm you. Well, and there's that. And this is something you and I talk about a lot, especially as parents, is you know, what could I have done? Like this anger at yourself, even though you we uh have children that are adults and they make their own decisions, but it weighs on us. Like, yeah, what could we have done differently? Did I give them the right tools or um or am I making the right choice by kind of uh letting them experience life there on their own?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

That's a that's a good that's a good point because it's it's again it's very nuanced. It's am I making the right choice by enabling them to do X, Y, and Z? Should I do you know, do more tough love? It's always questions, right? There's always should I do this or should I have done that or shouldn't I have done this? Or should it you know, everybody always says parenting doesn't come with a manual. Well, it and that sucks. I wish it did. And and I and I always kind of chuckle because we're parents and a long line of parents, and there's gonna be a long line of parents, but I wish there was a way to know, you know, and and at what line, at what point do you go from being frustrated to angry with oneself to not want to cause harm, but to want to cause positive correction? Because also in the Bible it says spare the rod, spoil the child. Yeah. So correction can be done not in anger, but with the proper mindset. And I mean correction as in like what the child in this case will perceive as anger, but you're not doing it in anger. So for us, for veterans, like the drill instructors and the drill sergeants, you think they're angry because they're yelling and they're correcting, but they're not actually angry. Inside, they might be cracking up laughing. They're not angry, they're trying to correct behavior.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

And you know, sometimes it's just like you know, what needs to come out, you know, for for an emphasis of whatever the situation is, and that can go right along with language. I mean, you know, being profane and and swearing and things when you're in an emotional state and you're trying to relay the importance of the situation, and it may come off as uh more angry than you intend it, but sure, you know. But this is something um the anger thing is something I've struggled with. And you you've watched me and you've seen me um make great strides, but I I have, and you and you have, yes. And but I think it's important for what we we're doing with the podcast is to kind of leave a little bit of ourselves out there, not to be holier than now type.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Um, and so before I moved up here, I really struggled with anger and uh wrath, and it was to the point where I was, I mean, actually abusive to Sarah, to my significant other, and um almost on just like a light switch, and it was over it's actually created quite a uh stigma for her, you know, it's in her mind even years later that I made all these adjustments, and that if I do get loud and stuff, it sometimes triggers a response from her of fear. And I think it's you know, it's important that just because we have these moments, these these times in our lives where we have struggled with this, if we're continuing to improve ourselves, especially going through um, you know, the path of Christ, it's it's so much easier to make yourself better. And and everybody around you will see it um as as you go through your journey. And I think it's really important that you know we do uh we talk to God, we pray, and we um and even you know, I'm not a Catholic, but I think you know, something's so important about doing the rosary, it eases the heart, it helps make those adjustments so they're no longer in that that same mindset of being so angry all the time, and uh, you know, and then being abusive and and you know, violent towards others, whether it or yourself. Or yourself, you know. That's important.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

So because if you're angry towards yourself, you're gonna be angry towards the world.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, and those in it. And we know people who have suffered from uh suicide and stuff, and you know, it's it's tough. It's tough not only to witness it and be around and know, but then that causes the depression. What could I have done something different? Could I have maybe if I had called him that day, or maybe if I you know didn't cancel plans or whatever the case is, and um so that's kind of the the uh weakness of the human mind is that we kind of get into those.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

And anger is just the other side of I don't think anger is the other side of the coin of love. I think anger is the other side of the coin of depression.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Um yeah, because I think I don't think there's a coin, I think it's more like a dice can be based in love. Sure it can. We've both been to the school meetings and stuff and been angry, raised our voice, and said things because our children weren't being treated the way that they should be treated within the school system. Um, and we do that out of love for for our children. So that's that's fair. So I think it's uh you're right on with that. But it's also it's not something that consumes us that we're sitting outside the school waiting for the teacher to come out and we're not like you know, vandalizing their vehicles, and you know, it's we deal with the situation and let then at you know, let it go, see see where things go. And you know, we just try and also be good examples for our children with that's true to the certain time frame, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

It's gotta be a good example because if you're a wrathful person, like a fire, it spreads. Oh, absolutely. It does spread. And the fire of love spreads too. Love is like a fire, I believe. Yeah. The fire of love, but fire of anger, the fire of wrath, the fire of fury also spreads. So I think it's important for people who are angry people to realize that if you're an angry person, that's gonna bleed out to the people around you for better or worse, and it's always gonna be worse. Um, righteous anger will spread. So that will be for the very narrow points of betterness.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

People will be like again, protecting your family.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Exactly, protecting your family, doing the right thing. But the exponentially, more oftentimes, the the anger for worse will spread, and people will just be, they'll just be, you know, they'll be assholes. They'll be like, yeah, I can be, I can be an ass, and you know, whatever, and this it's not right. It's not the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

Yeah, and you know, once you get into these, hey, it's it's almost like any other addiction. Once you get into these emotional habits, it really takes you as an individual to break it, and you have to rely on it.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

And it's not easy, it's an addiction. Yeah, I love how you said that. I when I was a kid, I used to say, my anger keeps me warm, and I wasn't joking.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah, and you know, we we see it, we know people who have different, you know, addictions and stuff, but it's nobody can fix that for you. You have to come to terms with that, but also you have to rely on on Jesus and God in order to get that that anger out of your heart. It's gotta be siphoned out, and you know, it takes time, but you know, you have to rely on God and trust God and then do the work. Um, you know. Do the work.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

That's what it's about. Um, I think that's a great way to end it. Sometimes you gotta do the work and it's not easy, but do the work. God love you.