Miss Piggy

This week we’re looking at cultural phenomenon, the woman, the myth, the legend, the pig. Miss Piggy. Join us for unforgettable celebrity collaborations, a shocking secret from Liz and a misunderstanding quickly resolved by Miss Piggy’s legal team. There’s never been an episode quite like this before…!

Watch along with with our video section at the link below!

Miss Piggy and Joan Rivers - https://youtu.be/XhbF5u9yMkU?si=9WDtQvQCQkaOZrAI 

Miss Piggy’s Hollywood fantasy - https://youtu.be/4UUQTbwqX5Y?si=klbFKtuEfxf6-prL 

Snackcercise - https://youtu.be/oK52qGcpdzo?si=8j6cuWgz2x-UROjN 

Miss Piggy and Michelle Pfeiffer  - https://youtu.be/AJLcV2uD6uM?si=7DrKwdrSPSwQDNbw 

Something So Right - https://youtu.be/7RSc_PPU3h4?si=zzBGVYcATjXmsBol 

We are indebted to those who have originally uploaded these videos, this podcast wouldn't be possible without them!

Follow us on social media for more nonsense:

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Camp Icons. I'm Nick.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

And I'm Liz.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

How are you, Liz?

SPEAKER_04 0:07

I'm very, very well.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Oh, excellent. Have you had a good week?

SPEAKER_04 0:10

I have had a good week, actually. I have got a bit of a cold. I apologise if I sound different, but er I've had a good week. Just, you know, getting out there doing things. Getting out there. Leaving the house.

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good.

SPEAKER_04 0:22

Spreading my germs. No, no, no, no. I'm very careful.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

Right. But yes, very careful. Wash your hands. Um mask up. Yeah. No, let's not go back. Never go back. Are you excited for this week's episode?

SPEAKER_04 0:35

I am, yes. I think it might be, you know, different. It might be a different episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I think it will be a different episode. This week, everybody, we are covering the living legend. Miss Piggy. Right, to begin this week, I have something that I have to read out.

SPEAKER_04 1:11

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Um, it's based on something that I said on the last podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:18

Since we recorded that one, I have received a letter from the offices of Swine Glamour and Oink LLP.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Um it says, Dear Sir slash madam.

SPEAKER_04 1:29

They weren't sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

No. Happens all the time on the phone. We represent the internationally adored entertainer, fashion icon, humanitarian, martial arts expert, and living legend known simply as Miss Piggy. It has come to our clients' attention that you recently referred to Miss Piggy as a fictional character. This statement is false, defamatory, emotionally devastating, and deeply disrespectful to a woman of her stature, poise, and impeccable cheekbone structure.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

Miss Piggy is not now, nor has she ever been, fictional. She is a globally recognised celebrity whose accomplishments include film, television, publishing, hôte couture, and maintaining extraordinary patience in her long-standing professional association with one Mr. Kermit the Frog. Your characterisation of our client as fictional has caused considerable harm, including, but not limited to, severe offence, three dramatic fainting episodes, the throwing of at least one designer shoe, and at least one highly targeted karate chop. Accordingly, we hereby demand that you immediately cease and desist from referring to Miss Piggy as fictional, issue a full public apology describing her as an enduring international icon and star, and provide written assurances that no further acts of pig-based defamation shall occur. Failure to comply within seven days may result in legal action pursued in every applicable jurisdiction, including television, fashion, and interpretive dance. With utmost seriousness and fabulousness, Gloria Hamhock Esquire, senior partner, Swine, Glamour and Oink LLP.

SPEAKER_04 3:07

Gosh, I yes, I'm so glad that they've given us the opportunity to correct the record.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yes, absolutely, and I I absolutely do apologise to enduring international icon and star Miss Piggy.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yes, we both do, we both do. Honestly, I thought if we'd get a legal threat from anyone, it would be super hard. No, I'm happy that we can um correct our we misspoke and that you know we're absolutely taking the floor.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Well I miss, but I'm gonna take the full you're taking the blame, okay.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

That's fantastic news. And um yeah, we can still then move on with this episode where we get to celebrate this icon, and I'm so so happy that we have the opportunity to do that.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Yes. We've dressed for the occasion again this week, haven't we?

SPEAKER_04 3:55

Just I just before we dive into that, I hope it won't bring the tone down if I say that I do hate Miss Piggy. I I didn't I didn't mention this to you before. Right. Um I can't stand her. I literally cannot stand Miss Piggy. No, well, no, that's not true. I hate all the Muppets. I hate the Muppets. I hate Miss Piggy especially.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

I haven't told you this before. Yes, I can I because it does tend to drive a wedge between me and the people I love most.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

Because they think I should like the Muppets, and I don't, I hate them. Just to be absolutely on the record about that, I hate them. Don't understand it or why it's a thing. Uh have never enjoyed them. I I I I hate the Muppets. And I I hate Miss Piggy especially. Um I don't like anything about her or who she is, but I'm really looking forward to the episode.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Wow. Um, okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:06

You didn't know this about me.

SPEAKER_00 5:08

I didn't know this about you, and I like I I love the Muppets. I feel like this has been a very carefully concealed piece of information.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

Yes, yes. I've concealed it from you. I also had a best friend at secondary school who now has a tribute show to the Muppets, who I concealed it from. Yeah. And my husband also loves the Muppets. And in the very early stages of dating, I bought him a Rolf puppet to kind of mask because instead of saying that I liked or enjoyed or wanted to watch it with him, I was like, Oh, look, I bought this thing for you because that's your favourite character. Rolf is his favourite character. Don't ever ask me if I like the Muppets because I bought this thing for you. So I as I say, I have it, I absolutely have to hide this from people.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

Because they they look down on me for not liking it.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Right. Well, I'm glad we've got that out of the way.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

So this is my first time going into an episode with no respect whatsoever for the person that we're doing. And even kind of some beef. Um pork.

unknown 6:18

Pork.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

I have I I have a I have two issues with her.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Okay, tell me what you say.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

So the first one is that she's a Muppet and I hate all Muppets. Right. That's on record. Um the second one is right, as a woman of a certain size, okay, I have quite a particular shape of nose that could be interpreted as pig-like. And my first ever bully referred to me as Miss Piggy. Now I'm not saying this has any bearing on my liking of Miss Piggy, but I've done everything I can in my life to not associate myself with Miss Piggy until today.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Today you've gone quite strong, I must say. I've got full piggy. We've yeah, so we have dressed for the occasion today.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

We so we dress up, yeah. And I think the first thing I said to you was when we were doing the podcast, is like, should we dress a bit camp? Just for the fun of it. I think that's all I said. Yeah. And then it's grown to the point where I'm now in a blonde wig.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

Yes, you're in a long blonde wig. Yes. That did you style that or did that come?

SPEAKER_04 7:29

It came styled. Okay. I have absolutely no hairstyling abilities.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Right.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Uh, I I did pin some little bits back, but mostly it came with the curls and everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

I bought this wig at quite a low point in my life.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

I'd had to cut my hair really short because I was ill and I couldn't look after my hair. And um, so I bought myself a long blonde wig because I was like, I might never see myself with long hair again, and might never see myself as a blonde. I put it on and I went, oh, I didn't need to see this. Doesn't suit me at all.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

And now I get to see it.

SPEAKER_04 8:04

Yes, I've worn it for you.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

And for this episode, which I'm already already finding emotionally damaging.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Same. I mean, you sitting in that wig for the next two hours is penance as far as I'm concerned for the heinous things you've said about these glorious people that bring joy to millions. Beloved. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

Beloved, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Sorry about it.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

No, you're not.

SPEAKER_04 8:33

No, I'm not.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Um so there's no memoir of Miss Piggy.

SPEAKER_04 8:38

What a shame. Do you think she just doesn't have the time?

SPEAKER_00 8:42

I think that to some degree she's quite a private person. Do you think so? I yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

I feel like I don't know that I know a lot about her. Usually you ask what I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:53

And it does it would seem You've already told me what you know. It would seem that I've been avoiding information, but I I feel like there's a lot out there. I don't know if I would just refer to her as private.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I feel like I know too much, but I feel that she's a little bit like Adele.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

In that she What are you looking at me like that for? She pops up for these periods of time. Yeah. And then she disappears for a long time. Interesting. And then she'll pop up again. So I think she does um have these these sort of moments of a more private existence.

SPEAKER_04 9:29

Right, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

So my biography, if you like, of Miss Piggy is kind of put together from different interviews that she's given over the years.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

Okay, well, I am very interested to know more about her because I think in life we grow when we, you know, take on information about things that we weren't first convinced, you know, were for us.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

So she grew up in the Midwest on a farm.

SPEAKER_04 9:54

Oh, right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

And she had a deeply happy childhood.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

Deeply happy.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Deeply happy, yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

So unusual, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 10:00

It's not yeah, it's not an often.

SPEAKER_04 10:02

It's not how most people refer to their childhoods. No, deeply happy. Deeply happy.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Her parents couldn't afford to send her to college. So instead she attended charm school.

SPEAKER_04 10:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Where she was taught poise and modelling poses.

SPEAKER_04 10:19

Ah. Is it like finishing school?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

I assume so.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Is it a real thing? Obviously, all of this is real, but yes, we had a letter.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Of course it's real. Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Um I clearly haven't been.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I don't know. I I feel like it it must have come from somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

It's a phrase I have heard. I believe it might be real. If so, and you went to charm school, I'm so sorry. Because I th I feel in my life I have uh been un I've been able to be uh very uncharming, and that's one of my deepest choice. It's that nobody's happy to see me.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

To me, it sounds more American. Yes, charm school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh she made her professional debut in 1974. Gosh. In spite of the fact that she's currently only 25.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Ah.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:17

I was just gonna ask how old that made her. Twenty-five.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

Yes, she says wouldn't have guessed that. No, she said a long time ago I just woke up and decided I wasn't going to age.

SPEAKER_04 11:27

Right. There's a certain maturity about her, which made me think she might have been slightly older than that.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

She's quite, you know, she's got herself together. But you know, 25 is a fine age, so why not, you know, pick your age and stick with it? It's fine. What age would you pick if you had to stick at one age? Oh if I had to stick at one age. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Um I'm sort of really enjoying the age that I'm at now. Oh, I love that. That's perfect. Yeah, which we're not publicly divulging. Okay, yes, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm I if I had to stay at this age, you could not force me back into being a teenager.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

Uh totally the same.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, no, absolutely not. I'm sort of enjoying life where it currently is. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

Yeah. I think I I I started my second life at 35.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 12:21

I just went, do you know what? I'm I have to I have to do some shit now, otherwise I'm gonna get old and die. Yeah. And so I I could quite happily stick there. The energy I had when I was 35 and I I be I Phoenix like rose from the flames. I could just keep that energy forever. I think 25's a bit too young for me. I still didn't know what I was about.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Well, when I get to 25, I'll I'll let you know. Sure, okay. Well that's so she soon developed an on-again, off again relationship with Kermit the Frog.

SPEAKER_04 12:54

Yeah, I mean that's quite a big big part of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

It's a big part of her life, I think. Yeah. Um she says that her perfect date would just be me, Kermi, and a few photographers.

SPEAKER_04 13:06

Right, okay. Something of an exhibitionist.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Uh possibly. Yes. I don't I mean I don't know what they're phot for photographer.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Photographing? Photography.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Wow. She says of the relationship, Kermi always does exactly what he wants because he knows what he wants is what I want.

SPEAKER_04 13:27

Mmm. Is that is that the way round that I've perceived it? I mean, you never really know, do you? Looking from the outside, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

And she's also said maybe we're not technically married, but we're married in our hearts, and I'm working on the rest of his body parts.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Oh. Him him being a frog.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

I don't know which parts he has.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

No, that's true, actually.

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Has he got gills? I don't well, I was thinking about a winkle. Has he got a winkle little winkle?

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Little froggy winkle. I mean I haven't seen it, but No, I don't think I've ever seen a frog's winkle.

SPEAKER_04 14:07

No. Well I I think I can categorically say that I haven't.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, no, no, no, I haven't.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

There's you ever seen a pig's cash?

SPEAKER_00 14:22

I think I have actually.

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Yeah, I think I have too. Only from like when you're a kid you get taken to a lot of farms, don't you? Yeah. A lot of farm visits.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

And I was gonna say lambing, but that's not the right animal, but No. But you know, you do you are put through watching some quite traumatic animal birth.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_05 14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

So within her career, she's appeared across TV, film and stage. And she also once released Miss Piggy's Aerobic Exercise Workout album.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Oh. That's well.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Yes, which was a collection of uh aerobic songs.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

Okay. So does she actually show you how to do the aerobics?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So it was just an album, so it's just audio.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

Oh, what a shame. I would love to see her do that.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Well. She did make a video for one of them. Brilliant. Which we will be watching later.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Oh, my dreams have come true.

SPEAKER_00 15:23

Yes. Uh she said that she's very good at cooking and she's very good with children. She feels like she's very domestic.

SPEAKER_04 15:30

She doesn't have any children though, I assume, with Kermit.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

No, but at 25, you know.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

Oh, there's still plenty of time.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

So much time for tiny curpigs.

SPEAKER_04 15:41

Yeah, yeah. How do you think they'd come out? Is it like where um the girls would look exactly like her and the boys would look exactly like Kermit?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

So um in The Muppet Christmas Carol, which I assume you've never seen because you hate joy.

SPEAKER_04 15:57

No, I have seen it. I have seen it because that's what my school friend's uh show is based on. Right. I watched it for the first time during that, which she doesn't know, and I think would be furious to realise that was my first viewing.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

I'm furious.

SPEAKER_04 16:13

Um I quite enjoyed it, I have to say, as Muppet properties go, that's probably my favourite.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Uh it for me it's the pinnacle.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

I think it might be because Michael Cain acts like how I feel about Muppets. Right, he plays it as though he's acting with And he seems pissed off for 90% of it.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

He is playing Scrooge.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

Yeah, exactly. Well that's how I feel when I see a Muppet. I feel Scrooge-like. Like, why is this bringing joy to everyone? I'm so angry with you, or I can't understand this.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So the Muppets to you are Christmas to Scrooge.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Mmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

But anyway, in that film, um, obviously the actors that they hire to play the children.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Oh, sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Um are little pigs and little frogs.

SPEAKER_04 17:05

I think that's the way it should be.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And all the boys are frogs and all the girls are pigs.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

That's the way it should be.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Yeah. If you're doing casting or drawing a cartoon or anything where you have to depict what two species should be, don't listen to the people who are like, uh, why is it like we don't need genetics in this, okay? Just have all the boys are little versions of the dad, and all the girls are little versions of the mum. That's totally fine. I'm happy.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

So you don't want to see a half pig, half frog?

SPEAKER_04 17:37

Guess what, Nick? I don't. I do not. No, thank you. Take it away.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

To that, I say stove it in the head. Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 17:46

Oh shit. What else have you got in these clips?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

She goes on to speak about her hobbies. She says she speaks fluent French.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

She likes karate.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

And she likes collecting diamonds.

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

She was very keen to add, I don't break dance, I'm a lady.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Which I don't entirely agree with. I think there were some great female breakdancers out there.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

You remember that Australian one from the Olympics?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

I wasn't specifically thinking about that one.

SPEAKER_04 18:18

That was the first one that came to mind. Um because she was doing like a kangaroo-themed breakdancing, and I was wondering if Miss Piggy could do a pig-themed uh breakdance.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

No, she's a lady. No. No, she's never gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 18:35

I she's a lot more into martial arts than I realised.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:40

I think I I I know there's that haya!

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:44

Um I guess I thought that was just free form. I didn't realise she had actual training.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

She's uh she applied to the few.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

I think she's studied, yeah. She's yeah. Yeah. I think she's studied.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

Yeah. Okay. On her status as a fashion icon, she says more is more. You can't be a fashion icon if no one is looking at you.

SPEAKER_04 19:11

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

And also she says that she has several women and men to do her hair.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

Mmm. I to be honest with you, more is more, I totally agree.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

And I think we've seen that in our camp icons. More is more.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah, and funnily enough, she the first half of that quote was about Coco Chanel, who you brought up in the the Sue Pollard episode. Yeah. So, you know, there's there's kind of a d a direct link, I think, between Sue Pollard and Miss Piggy.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

Mmm, of course.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

It's the the the duet that we sadly never got.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Oh yeah. Well, neither of them are dead, Nick. No, I know, but they're unlikely to meet.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah, I I can't think of a platform where they're going to bring Let's be the platform, Nick.

SPEAKER_04 19:59

Let's let's try and get them together.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I think after what you've said today, Miss Picky's never gonna speak to us again.

SPEAKER_04 20:06

I might come I might I might come round on her. I might change my mind.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:11

To be honest, I have to say, when I was getting ready, I looked at some pictures of her um in order to inspire my look.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:19

And as I was putting I I noticed she wears quite often she wears a purple eyeshadow, so I thought I would do that look. And I put on more purple eyeshadow than I've ever considered putting on before.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

The fact that I'm looking at you and still thinking the eyeshadow is quite subtle tells me more about myself than perhaps I wanted to discover.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Listen, listen, okay, I'm not from this generation that grew up doing ruPauls, drag race, full face beats. I am from a generation where makeup to me, my mum said you have to put this on every day, otherwise you won't get a job and you won't get a boyfriend, and people won't like you, and that's just what being a woman is, alright? That was my introduction to makeup.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:05

So I really didn't know what I was doing, and I refuse to learn because there's no room in my head for what makeup is or what looks good on me or all the stages. It's it's too complicated. I don't want to paint a Da Vinci on my face every time I leave the house. Anyway, what I do is I smear a bit of eyeliner on and I hope for the fucking best. Okay, so but I was putting on a load of purple eyeshadow, and I think I said two things, I've got like ten things to say about that. Probably because it's very, very cheap, it's all worn off by now, even though we've only been here about 20 minutes. Um secondly, I don't have a lot of space there. Uh let's not talk about hooded lids, it's too much.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

I've got hooded lids.

SPEAKER_04 21:45

I I've I'm beyond hooded lids. I'm like full cape, like there's there's no lid to be had. I'm but my eyebrows are almost touching my eye. I have not got any space in here. Anyway, I was put in this purple Eyeshadow on, and this is the benefit of dressing up for the podcast. I was thinking about permission, right? Because I thought I wouldn't put this much on to go out because I feel like I'm not allowed. But when we do this podcast, I kind of have permission to look ridiculous and do things that I wouldn't usually do. And I was thinking that is the real like the thing that we love about the icons is they kind of gave us permission, and Miss Piggy definitely does. She gave like a like a type of you know, generation permission to be bolder and act more. So I have to say, I do really respect that about her. And when I was putting on my purple eyeshadow, I was thinking about that. I was like, do you know what? Fashion-wise, I have always respected her. I I absolutely am not joking. I love her looks. I do love her looks. I'm jealous. I'm just thinking, you know, the way you have like a Barbie doll when you're a kid, and you're like, I wish my clothes were as exciting as the Barbie doll. You look at Miss Piggy and you're like, why is everything she wears so much more exciting than the shit I have to wear?

SPEAKER_00 23:05

She's always impeccably turned out.

SPEAKER_04 23:07

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Yeah. Completely. On her legacy, she says, I try to be an inspiration to everyone, but it is especially heartwarming when a young girl tells moi how much moi means to them.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

Mmm. Yes. Again, the French, she speaks French.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Fluent French.

SPEAKER_04 23:28

It feels like a retcon of why she says moi so much.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Right. Do you not believe that she speaks fluent French?

SPEAKER_04 23:37

I I guess what I'm saying is I associate the use of moi with her so much that I hadn't previously thought she knew all the other words.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Right, okay. I mean, I'll be honest, there's I can't really find any footage of her speaking fluent French.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

But like I say, she's quite private, so you know, and there's this like mythos that grows up around these camp icons. What can they do? What can't they do? They create their own reality. Camp is a fantasy, it's a constructed reality. Who cares? Who knows? Who what does it matter?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Indeed. I think it's time that we move on to some clips.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

So, as ever, all of the links to these videos are in our episode description, so you can watch along with us. Uh, we'll leave a little gap for you to go and watch the video before we comment on it. Or you could go watch them all now, or you could not watch any of them and just listen to what we think about them and try and create the image of what they are in your own heads. Uh, we do also share short clips of some of these over on our social media so you can see some of those over the coming days as well. So, our first clip today is from uh one of her films. It's The Great Muppet Caper.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

Never seen it.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And it's a great follow-on, I think, for your discussion about the eyeshadow and permission. Oh, okay. Um, because there's there's certainly a makeup theme that runs through this one.

SPEAKER_05 25:15

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

I just need to correct myself there. This was actually from the 1984 film Muppets Take Manhattan.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Okay, well I haven't seen either, so you could show me anything.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

What I will say, first of all, is we've just spoken about how incredible she always looks.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Yes. She looks dreadful in this, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

I I have to be very careful what I say because I don't want to sue. She'll come after you. Yeah, I don't want to get sued.

SPEAKER_04 25:44

Um me and her are already at odds, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

She has a very 80s perm.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

And I know she's wearing a work uniform.

SPEAKER_04 25:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

It's not very flattering.

SPEAKER_04 25:59

It's not. It's not at all. It's a kind of baby pink.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Um, roughly. Joan Rivers, who's also in this clip, has the exact same outfit on. They both look terrible.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

So yeah, I don't imagine that that's what a sort of makeup counter girls were wearing in the 80s.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

I don't know if I've ever no, I'm not sure, but I don't know if I've ever been in a department store this posh. And s and certainly in America, uh which I assume you say it was in Manhattan. Yes. Yes. Because they do speak a little bit of French, so you know, could have been could have been in France. Um yes, I don't know, like they'll ask their employees to do anything, so I'm not sure what they were asking people to wear.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Yeah, but when you look at all the other people in the department store.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

It doesn't seem to chime with anything else I recognise. No. No.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

No.

SPEAKER_04 26:50

So they're selling a perfume called Cel Deference, is that?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Something like that.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Yes. Which we do get to hear Miss Piggy pronounce, and I I you know, it's obvious how irritated she is in this clip because there's absolutely no trace of a French accent when she says it, um, which now we know that she speaks fluent French. That's got to be a a sign that she's very, very upset in this particular clip.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, well, and she is. She comes in and she seems to have had some sort of row with Kermit, um, and she needs cheering up.

SPEAKER_04 27:24

Is this a fictional story in which they are acting like Christmas Carol, or is this more like a structured reality, like keeping up with the Kardashians?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

I feel like they're sort of playing fictionalised versions of themselves.

SPEAKER_04 27:42

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Um we'll go with that. I potentially what I hear you're saying is that the Muppets invented constructed reality.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

Maybe I am saying that.

SPEAKER_00 27:55

Yes, maybe this is the reason we have the Kardashians.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

I I can totally buy that. Totally.

SPEAKER_00 28:03

But yeah, she comes in, she needs cheering up, and she works with Joan Rivers.

SPEAKER_04 28:08

Yes, what a nightmare. Um I wouldn't say it to either of their faces. Um Joan Rivers is dead, but I wouldn't still um risk it. Uh dreadful people, just awful. I just can't stand either of them. Okay. Joan Rivers, you know, um, knocked down a lot of doors for women to be comedians, which I really appreciate because comedy is something that I've tried to do once or twice. Uh and um I I just question what she did with that power, you know? Okay. I think she mostly used it to advocate for plastic surgery and knocking other women down, you know. It's much like um, you know, uh Margaret Thatcher broke barriers by becoming the first Prime Minister. So but which is great that uh we had a female prime minister.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Batch of walks though that trust could run.

SPEAKER_04 29:03

But then you st you just question uh what they did with that power, and you say, oh, do you know? Probably not what I would have chosen anyway. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

But I I feel like she's trying to lift Piggy up in this clip. I don't.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

I what I see in this clip is because they're at this makeup counter, is that Joan Rivers suggests she's going to lift Piggy up and then draw us all over her face.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

Well she gives her a makeover.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Mmm, is it?

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

And I think what we've got to appreciate here is that um pig skin is a different texture to human skin.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

So the human products that she's using on Piggy aren't quite gonna take to the face.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

How familiar are you with pig skin?

SPEAKER_00 29:58

I'm not that familiar, I'll be honest.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

But I don't I don't I think it's closer to human skin than you'd think.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I've never touched a pig. I have. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

And they are hairier than people.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Most people.

SPEAKER_03 30:18

Well, it depends which part of the pig and which part of the person you're touching.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

But I but I you know, the products that she's using aren't designed for That's what you think the problem is. Yeah. Felt for swine use.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Mm. Swine use, yeah. Yeah. No, okay. Because uh it's there's something about Miss Piggy's style of acting where it's hard for me to tell if she's enjoying this encounter or she's being assaulted.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

I think she's enjoying it because she's laughing.

SPEAKER_04 30:50

That's laughter, is it? I think so, yeah. Am I projecting?

SPEAKER_00 30:56

I I think you might be. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

So they're happy, they like each other.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

Good, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

And she's I I don't think that she's happy with the outcome. I think she's laughing at the outcome because it's so ridiculous. Well, that's exactly how I feel when I put makeup on, so she's she sort of Joan takes it to that place with Piggy where she's getting her to laugh at herself.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

So that she um forgets how serious it is with just sees the futility of an interspecies relationship.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Yeah, it's always gonna be a problem, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:33

Yeah. Have we got other clips uh you know, with Kermit maybe coming up?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

We have.

SPEAKER_04 31:38

Yeah, because I think there's a lot to dive in with about their relationship.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Yeah, definitely with their relationship. We're um we're going to another of her film appearances now.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

We are we are now going to 1981, The Great Muppet Caper.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Oh, so this is the Caper, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

Yes, and we are about to watch Miss Piggy make a fashion show debut.

SPEAKER_04 32:01

Oh, okay. Well, I've cheered right up.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Have you?

SPEAKER_04 32:10

This was wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

I mean, this I think he's gotta be up there with the campist that we've watched.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:18

It's Camp On Camp because it's a Muppet version of an older Hollywood, you know, the kind of Esther Williams, Busby Barclay kind of big song and dance numbers, but it's an underwater number, and it's just all kinds of fabulous.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yes, it's um synchronised swimming, which I as I was watching it was thinking, I don't know if I've ever seen a pig swim.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

No. I I can't say that I have certainly not with the amount of skill and grace that is deployed here. No, and I mean I would I was genuinely impressed by the range of moves that we got to see. You know, because sometimes the the celebrity who's up front, the star, isn't doing as much as those around. But we get to see Miss Piggy do quite a lot of this.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

And she does, I would say, quite a lot of her own stunts. Yes. Because she towards the end dives from a cascade of water.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

Mmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

Very high. Very high. And I don't think I've ever seen a pig dive.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

I certainly I certainly don't think I have.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

I mean for truffles, but you know but she has good form, yes. And she's doing it all in heels.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

Yes, yeah. Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

So the clip begins, she's at this fashion show, she gets introduced as a swimwear model.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

Brief glimpse of the only Muppets that I like, Stadler and Waldorf.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Brilliant. We must also mention the magnificent Diana Rigg.

SPEAKER_04 34:07

Diana Rigg's in this. I might I might genuinely go and watch this film. I love Diana Rigg. I I love her so much.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

I mean, she looks incredible in this film.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Yeah, she's got such presence. She's an incredible actress.

SPEAKER_00 34:22

So she introduces Piggy, and Piggy starts walking down the catwalk. And then we go into this sort of fantasy dream sequence. Right. With lots of women stood around a swimming pool with large capes, small bathing suits, and choir-like voices.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

Yes, it's all giving this the the this atmosphere of this beautiful, yeah, old Hollywood kind of spectacle.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

It's soft focus, it's pastel blues, pastel pinks.

SPEAKER_04 34:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

And then they all just dive into the water.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

They all dive in, they all give it a go. It's I think it's got to be camp, hasn't it? To dive into the water with your kind of like chiffon cape.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Oh, in full glamour.

SPEAKER_04 35:15

In full glam. That's always camp, I think.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

Um, and yeah, the the synchronised routines are great. They're genuinely very, very good.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

There's something really camp, I think, about the fact that in some of the close-up shots of Piggy underwater, she's holding her breath.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

And in other shots, you get the stream of bubbles coming out of her nose.

SPEAKER_04 35:37

Two streams coming out of each nostril.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:40

Um, which I I really appreciated that we got to see that detail. Um because uh that amuse that did amuse me.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

She's got incredible lung capacity. Incredible because she just keeps breathing.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Mm-hmm. Big, big stream of bubbles was coming out, and I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

It continues, she does a little bit of backstroke. Well you get to see her at every angle, don't you?

SPEAKER_04 36:06

Legs in the air, and I appreciate the you know, calves on her. Yes. Um I often, you know, I've don't I I often feel got very conscious of my calves. Right. It's nice to see my body shape represented. Tiny little leg, giant calf.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Uh you cannot deny the confidence of Miss Piggy. Oh no, no, no. No.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

She's loving it.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

And then she does something that defies science. Yes. She emerges from the water with five lit sparklers on her head.

SPEAKER_04 36:38

Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Um and then is, as I say, raised by this cascade of water like a giant fountain.

SPEAKER_04 36:47

Well, there's a reverse shot of um Scarlett Johansson doing the same thing in Hail Caesar. With the um not sparklers, but she comes out of the water dry. And I just, you know, if you are interested in uh going and seeking that out, it's probably not as good a movie as this, I'll be honest, it's not great. But um, yes, you know, I think Miss Piggy and Scarlett Johansson, you know, she often uh has has blazed a trail for for you know fellow stars, unlike Joan Rivers.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

Do you think Miss Piggy should be in the next Avengers film?

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Yes. I'm going to say yes. I don't know who she'd play. Who would you have a play?

SPEAKER_00 37:24

I don't know. I mean they're doing a lot with the multiverse at the moment, so I think she'd be like an all like an established character from an alternate reality.

SPEAKER_04 37:33

Oh, are you thinking Black Widow? Is that because I mentioned Scarlett Hansen?

SPEAKER_00 37:37

No, I don't think she would be Black Widow. I think she'd be She's quite a leader.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

Could she be an alternate Iron Man?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Iron Pig?

SPEAKER_04 37:44

Iron Pig.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:46

There's already a Spider Ham. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. I c I so if there was an alternate reality where they went and the the Avengers were Muppets.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:01

She'd be the leader.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

I think so. Or it's coming to be coming to be now that she could be Gwyneth Paltrow's character, the love interested of Iron Man. Oh so we could She's called Peppa Potts. So Peppa Pig. Yeah, it would be Peppa Pig, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_04 38:18

It's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Yeah. Iron Iron Frog and Peppa Pig.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

You don't want to mess up your pigs.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

And then we get to the conclusion of the clip where we discover that this fantasy that she's having um actually has some fairly catastrophic real-world consequences.

SPEAKER_04 38:37

Has she just fallen into a fountain?

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Yeah, I think she has.

SPEAKER_04 38:41

I think she'll recover.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

But she I think she'll recover, but when you think of how her hair looked underwater compared to how her hair now looks in the fountain.

SPEAKER_04 38:50

Well, I think we've all done that in the bath, you know, pretending to be a mermaid. Have we all done it? Okay. Okay. Maybe all is an overstatement. As a young girl, I would say, with long hair, under the water, you watch your hair be very swishy, like a mermaid, and then you come out and it's just pasted on your face.

SPEAKER_05 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:12

Reality like clocks you on when you do that. It really hits hard. It really does like, oh, I don't think I'll ever be a mermaid. Harsh. Harsh truth.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

I don't think that's because of the hair though.

SPEAKER_04 39:24

No, no, it isn't, it isn't at all. But I'm just saying that's where it hits you.

unknown 39:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

We move forward to 1982.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

And we are going to watch Miss Piggy's workout video.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Perfect. Well, we've just seen how athletic she is.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

I know. I can't wait. This is Miss Piggy in Snaxercise. Snaxer size.

SPEAKER_04 39:51

Snaxers, yeah, yeah. It's um uh yeah, I feel like she's not giving it quite the energy that the others are.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

No, but I think she is owning it. I think she's staying in her lane. Oh, okay, yeah. You sort of see a lot of these celebrities come out with these workout videos.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

And you sort of think Leave it to the experts. Yeah, I'm not really sure this is for you.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Yeah, no, I guess. Um she knows what she wants.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

She knows what she wants at home to the point that she actively tells them to stop it. They're being very Because they're doing a lot. They're doing a lot of aerobics.

SPEAKER_04 40:32

One guy in particular gets a little close-up.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

Um he's really doing too much. I do feel like there's somebody off camera yelling at them, like, give it more.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Uh, because those kicks are very high. Yes. Like those aren't really exercise kicks. Those are dancer kicks. Yeah, I mean If you exercise like that, you're gonna hurt yourself.

SPEAKER_00 40:54

Well, yes, it's not one that I would it's not a beginner's workout. No, it's not one that I'd recommend to the viewers at home of the piece to immediately dive in.

SPEAKER_04 41:05

No. I can't tell you how bad I would look trying to do that.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

I sort of want you to try.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

I mean, maybe that will happen, but uh the when I was when I was a little kid, I was very bendy and I could kick my leg up, like you know, right uh touch my nose, whatever. Um, and now to get it six inches off the ground would be I'd have to have a couple of days off after that. So I can't tell you they're so bouncy and so high kicking. I can't tell you how funny it would be for me to try and do that. Yeah, and I mean But what Miss Piggy is suggesting to do, I do feel is within my capabilities. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Tell us more about what she wants you to do.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

She I think she says a banana split, which is just lift the spoon and put it in your mouth, I think.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Yes. She says right at the top, go to your fridge and get your exercise equipment.

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Yes. Yes. Which I can absolutely see myself doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:07

We we once again come back to this idea of camp as excess.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Those dancers are definitely excessive.

SPEAKER_04 42:15

Doing a lot, and then compared to her who's not doing very much, just sitting there telling us to go to our fridge.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:22

It's I I think it's definitely camp.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

There's lots of, you know, bright colours and uh I think that also we're sort of seeing our first example of camp as not doing very much at all.

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Like there's sort of something Which it's subversive, yeah. Because this is exercise.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:42

Yeah. Yeah. Which is fun. I love that. I love the idea of an exercise video in which the person telling you to do it does no exercise.

SPEAKER_00 42:51

Yeah. I mean that's most celebrity workout videos, let's face it.

SPEAKER_04 42:56

Yeah. No, I well I I I think this is definitely an example of camp. Yes. Um I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

So this is obviously from an an album. Right, yes, Aerobeque exercises.

SPEAKER_04 43:12

Again, quite camp. I think the adding of Aerobique is a camper spelling.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

Well it's the French.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

The French obviously.

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Yeah. We've got some more of her French in this.

SPEAKER_04 43:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Tray good.

SPEAKER_04 43:26

Trey Good.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Yes, tray good. Yeah, yeah. Um do you do you have any desire to listen to the rest of the album is my question.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

No. Um almost none, I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:38

Um I I would do it uh for, you know, under uh duress. Um but I do I has she has inspired me to um go to the fridge. So I am now thinking about what's in my fridge and what I can eat.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

So it's not that she's had no effect on me, I would just stress that. That totally.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Um, she hasn't made me want to exercise or listen to her more, just eat. But I guess maybe the the thing that I don't like about her is maybe we're too similar.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Okay. Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:15

Just see too much of myself in her.

SPEAKER_00 44:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Maybe that's the problem.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

I've always give us a bit of your French.

SPEAKER_04 44:23

I was in France quite recently.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Give us a bit of your French.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

And can I tell you genuinely what happened? Is um uh I wanted to get past someone, but I didn't know what excuse me was, and all my uh brain could come up was with Entschuldigung, which is something close to German, but not it's not right in that language either.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

Sorry, you don't know the French for excuse me.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

No.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

Is it excuse him what?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

At the time, under pressure, all I could think about was German phrases. I nearly said it's to me light, which is I think it's I'm sorry. But no no French came into my head. I think all the French I know comes from Delboy.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:14

Monge too, my dear. That's sort of that's my level of French.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

There's a kind of a similarity in Piggy and Del Boy's approach to their fluency in French, I think.

SPEAKER_04 45:25

Yes, such confidence in it that they really stick with their own uh cadence and don't really go into the uh accent or anything because they have such a confident, you know, way of speaking. They don't need to go there. Yeah, yeah. There is a similarity.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Let's move on. We're going we're going to the 90s now. We're moving out of the 80s, and um we are about to witness uh some of Piggy's more volatile temperament.

SPEAKER_04 45:58

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Uh, in a segment with Michelle Pfeiffer. So it's very clear that she doesn't like Michelle Pfeiffer from the moment we first see them because she's quite aggressively shouting Jezebel at her.

SPEAKER_04 46:16

Yes. Well there's a um they've been set up here. Yes. Because they've obviously at some point both been told that they were going to play Maria in this.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yes, it's a song from The Sound of Music.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

Yeah, and and they've both got the costume, they've got identical costumes. So clearly somebody behind the scenes, whoever, you know, uh produces the Muppets were messing with them because they're pitting these two women against each other.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Absolutely, but equally I don't think Piggy's in the right. Do you not? No, I don't think there's any reason to sh for one woman to be shouting Jezebel at another. I think it's an underused insult. Oh, it's an underused insult. But I don't I don't think it's I think commenting on Biblical insults are a bit out of fashion, aren't they? Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_04 47:08

But I I Jezebel sort of suggests she's done something with Kermit. Well, yeah. And I mean we haven't spoken we still haven't spoken very much about Kermit, but it is a problematic relationship, so it it wouldn't surprise me if he was knocking boots with Michelle Pfeiffer.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 47:24

He seems the type, he seems like a frog whore.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

And I there seem to be throughout Piggy's career quite a lot of misunderstandings with some quite big name female stars.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

Sort of a theme on the Muppets.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

I think so, yeah. And and I I I think we've got to address the fact that Kermit probably is to blame. Because, you know, by now he should know what causes her jealousy.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

But is this victim blaming? Because she does seem fairly abusive. So is it his job to avoid you think he's provoking these attacks?

SPEAKER_00 48:08

I don't necessarily know that he's provoking them. But he obviously I don't see it myself, but he's obviously somewhat irresistible.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Oh, interesting, interesting. Yeah, I don't see it at all.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

No, no. But there's obviously he's very amenable with the female guests that they have on the show.

SPEAKER_04 48:32

He's a slut, that's what you're saying. I don't know that it's slutty.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

I think he wants to make them feel welcome.

SPEAKER_04 48:39

Oh, I don't know. I don't know. It seems like he's leading them on. You know, if he's in a relationship with Miss Piggy, that should be clear. He doesn't need to be that amenable.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

No, true. And you know, maybe actually the conclusion we need to draw here is that they're sort of both bringing some quite toxic baggage into the relationship.

SPEAKER_04 48:58

I think that is true. I think that is that's very true. Yeah. Because I I think I see it in both of them. You know, there's provocation from him, and very often you see this that he plays the good guy with everybody, but really he's not being truthful with Miss Piggy about his intentions. She is possessive, she is possessive. I think we see that. Um, but I just I don't know. I I I think there's a limit, even if you love someone very much, there's a limit to how overpowering that love should be, you know?

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Yeah, it's kind of it puts one in mind of Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. Oh they just couldn't keep away.

SPEAKER_04 49:45

Yes, yeah. They could they were obsessed with each other, but it doesn't mean that it worked well. It was yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

So on to the clip proper. Oh yes. Michelle Pfeiffer comes out and she starts singing.

SPEAKER_04 49:59

I've never thought of Michelle Pfeiffer as a singer.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

How dare you? Michelle Pfeiffer is in one of the greatest movie musicals that was ever made.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

What's that one?

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Grease 2.

SPEAKER_04 50:08

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

I'm not having this Grease 2 dismissal.

SPEAKER_04 50:13

It's a terrible movie.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

No.

SPEAKER_04 50:16

It's one of the all-time terrible movies.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

No, I'm not. It's significantly better than Greece.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

It's indefensible. I can't believe you. It's so bad. Greece is not great, but at least I know what they're going for. Grease too is terrible.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

So i in Greece, yeah, sort of the moral is girl has to change.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Is is it is it meant to be a moral? Or is it just what happens?

SPEAKER_00 50:48

It's what happens and it's a bit iffy.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Greece too The man has to change, does he? The man has to change, but she's fine. No, no, no. No, but it's more of a gradual You see the path, and at the end he's not suddenly somebody else. He's still that person, but he's sort of unlocked another facet.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Listen, listen, listen to me, listen to me, my friend. This is the problem with revisionist history, okay? Is that the moral of Greece One is not that the woman has to change, it's that well, firstly, teenage relationships are dumb and stupid. And also that she's playing this good girl, that's only a a part that she has to play for whatever. That's not any more her than the the like slutty version. Women should be allowed to be slutty versions of themselves. That's the moral. Okay, that's my moral, that's what I took from it, right? The Grease 2 doesn't matter if there's a moral because the music is terrible, the acting is terrible, it's a terribly made movie. Nobody cares what the storyline is because it's bad, right?

unknown 51:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

Michelle Pfeiffer in Grease 2 singing Cool Rider, right? Is incredible. And then later on in the movie, one of the campest moments that's ever been committed to cinema when she sings Love Will Turn Back the Hands of Time.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

All I heard then was you attempting to get me to watch this movie again, which I will not do. I will not do. You can't just suggest that it's camp and that I'm going to enjoy it. It's it's a bad movie.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

I'm I'm not having it. And I know, I know it has a lot of love.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

But I can't tell why. I cannot tell why. It's a terrible movie. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

You'll have to watch it again and find out.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

Michelle Fiverr's singing is as ropey in that movie as it is here. She's not a she's not a singer.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

Yeah, I she sings better in Greece 2 than she does here, I think.

SPEAKER_04 52:56

Yeah. Um What do you think about Miss Piggy's singing voice? Because we do they they they they go back and forth with this song.

SPEAKER_00 53:04

Yeah, they they're sort of having a battle through the song.

SPEAKER_04 53:06

A battle of wills, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Um I think Miss Piggy is trying her best under what is clearly a very stressful situation for her.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

That's a difficult, difficult one. Yeah, I get that.

SPEAKER_00 53:16

There is there's echoes of Scylla in the way that Miss Piggy sings in this.

SPEAKER_04 53:20

It's just very is a very distinctive voice.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

Can you do a Miss Piggy impression?

SPEAKER_00 53:26

I'm gonna try, and if it's awful, I'm gonna cut it.

unknown 53:32

Kermy!

SPEAKER_04 53:33

That's quite good, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Alright, we'll keep it.

SPEAKER_04 53:38

Why was Kermy the first thing I thought of saying as well? Oh, Kermy!

SPEAKER_03 53:44

Crummy, listen to moi. Very good.

SPEAKER_04 53:48

I think I think you should be a regular part of the podcast where we're just gonna try and do an impression. You do an impression of this person, even if we can't.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

So what have we done so far? Cylla Black. We're not doing them all now. We bloody are.

SPEAKER_04 54:00

I haven't got the strength.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

I've got a bit lost. We went off on a couple of tangents there, didn't we?

SPEAKER_04 54:07

Yeah, and my wig's coming off. Um it's as a clip.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

I firstly I don't want I'm I don't mean to be uh rude about Michelle Pfeiffer and the terrible movies that she's made. Uh because she looks absolutely stunning. I think that she looks great. And uh Miss Piggy in the same outfit also looks good. Uh and I uh yes, they they sing a little song, it's it's quite a funny little moment. There is a bit where we were talking about constructed reality earlier on where they sort of do the offstage part, yes, yeah. Which it actually in that part reminded me less of the Kardashians and more of the world of professional wrestling. Right, okay. Because when they do like WWE or whatever, they have little backstage bits which are just as scripted as the main action, right? But they sort of give you the behind the scenes rivalries. Yes. It was almost like that. Yeah, I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

So let's talk camp with this clip, because I think it is camp.

SPEAKER_04 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:04

Do you think like without Miss Piggy, the Muppets would still be camp? Because I think there is a campness to them. There's a silliness.

SPEAKER_00 55:16

Yes, and I th certainly in this clip, I think this clip would still be camp without Piggy. I think that's partly magnificent film star Michelle Pfeiffer.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Playing Maria from The Sound of Music.

SPEAKER_04 55:29

With the Muppets.

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Because this was 1996. So she's sort of off the back of a lot of her big Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

This is Pete Pfeiffer.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Um but yeah, I think it would be camp without Piggy.

SPEAKER_04 55:44

I think so too.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

But Piggy elevates it.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

Yes, she's the camp um er locus.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

The camp nucleus.

SPEAKER_04 55:56

The the epicentre of camp.

SPEAKER_00 55:57

The epicentre of camp.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

Everything else is camp, but it's moving around her. Right. With the Muppet universe, I think.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Speaking of people bringing things to new camp levels, we're going to move on to our final clip of the episode, which is from Muppets Most Wanted.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Uh, from 2014.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

And this is a little musical number from Piggy in the middle of that film.

SPEAKER_04 56:21

Okay. Um there's in terms of like layers of camp.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 56:31

There's quite a lot to unpick there.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

There is.

SPEAKER_04 56:34

I will say, singing-wise, I think between the last clip and this, she may have had some lessons because I think she's really upped her game.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

She's picked up, hasn't she? Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04 56:46

Definitely has photography.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

She's given a bit of a boost in this video, let's get it out of the way, by the presence of Celine Dion, I think.

SPEAKER_04 56:52

Yeah. She's had to up her game.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 56:57

Um, yes, so this I'm not familiar with this movie. I thought I might have been, but I'm not. Uh is she about to marry Kermit or She thinks she is. Oh again, it's toxic, isn't it? He's leading her on and he plays the nice guy.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

No, no, no, no. Oh. Okay, sorry. In this in this instance, um, he's got a doppelganger who is a criminal.

SPEAKER_04 57:23

Terrible.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

But frames Kermit for the crime.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

Right.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

So Kermit is in a Russian gulag.

SPEAKER_04 57:29

Oh no. Hate it when that happens.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

And the imposter is, well, leading her up the aisle, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

Well, this is terrible, isn't it? But it does it does speak to she wants to be married to Kermit.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 57:45

And the real Kermit has never done it. It's taken imposter Kermit to get to that stage. So what Kermit, pull your finger out. Or whatever those things are. Um they both craned round to look at your puppet.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

I know. I think they are I think he's has got fingers.

SPEAKER_04 58:08

Yeah, even if it's webbed. Um anyway, anyway, my feelings about their relationship aside, the moment that we're witnessing here, she has these conflicted feelings about what's going on. So she sings a song about it.

SPEAKER_01 58:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 58:27

A very uh emotional song, and we just get her at the start, and then yes, Celine Dion turns up.

SPEAKER_00 58:35

It goes from shots of Piggy walking around London to shots of Piggy lounging on a grand piano camp. In a black and white mansion room with candelabras everywhere. Camp and then in walks Celine Dion to join in. Camper. The Holy Trinity.

SPEAKER_04 58:59

The Holy Trinity of Camp. Yeah. Um Well Celine Dion Um I d uh Celine Dion is Camp.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

Whatever she does.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:12

But there's something I don't know about her even before she sings. She just doesn't belong there. She's like ethereal in this white gown and it it is like she's come from another planet, like a planet of camp blanky songstresses.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

I must have missed that Star Trek episode.

SPEAKER_04 59:38

Um that's the early years.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

I feel like Celine's role in this.

SPEAKER_04 59:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:45

I feel like she represents what Piggy thinks she sounds like.

SPEAKER_04 59:49

Oh, okay, that's interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 59:52

Yeah. Um right.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Which again is another layer because she's not she's not real Celine.

SPEAKER_04 59:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

In this. She is Dream Celine.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:03

Dream Celine, that's Camp, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, that's really Camp. Because there's also there's a particular shot that I want to highlight.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:11

Which is all their heads, um, kind of the the Muppets and Celine Dion lined up looking at each other in two rows. And I don't in black and white, and I don't think it's possible for anything to be camper, really. I I think it's because it's a shot that takes itself so seriously, but is also something very funny about the Muppets all looking dead-eyed at each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:39

It reminds me, so this film was released in 2014, but it it's almost like it's trying to echo things from 80s music videos.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Because I have reached a point in my research now where sometimes I will watch a video and go, is this camp or is it the 1980s?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Or is it just the 80s? Yeah, right. Well, the 80s were a time of excess, yeah. We've talked about camp as excess, we've talked about that a lot. And constructed realities, I think the 80s were a time when people were constructing their own fantasies of what the world should be and whatever. And yeah, this shot does have something 80s about it. It's a bit ABBA or Queen, but it's something also a bit more modern than that put into it, and they add the sparkle. So Celine at one point just emerges from sparkles, yes, which um yeah, it it it all is camp, and it's taking itself very seriously as a moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

She's she's sparkle dream Celine.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a My Little Pony that's cool, so My Little Pony is Camp. Anyway, I yeah, it's well, what a what a clip. I don't know I don't know what to say. Um do you think Celine is enjoying this?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

I imagine Celine is enjoying the paycheck of this.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:08

I I didn't want to say that straight out, but it feels very much like she cashed a check for. So she's phoning it in. And um I I do think this might have been at a time when she was not feeling very well because I know that she has that stiff person syndrome.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:24

And uh I think I think this was a little bit before she at least went public with it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:30

Oh, okay. So she might have been suffering the effects, and that made her sort of unable to fully embrace her Muppet's moment because it feels very much like she doesn't want to be there. In some ways she isn't there because she sparkled dreamsily. Correct. Yes, yeah. This feels like the episode that's most likely to get taken down.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:55

This is the episode where I think every moment we've been recording, I've been going. Am I having a breakdown? Because I feel like you and I have never been more committed to a bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:15

No. Absolutely, absolutely, never, never in our lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:22

No, I f I thought we were gonna break much earlier than this.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:26

I I feel almost ill. I don't know what's going on. I'll be honest, there was part before you arrived here today, where I was sitting with my Miss Piggy wig on in my house alone with my dog, who had sort of stepped back to look at me. Like it's unusual for a Scottish terrier to look taken aback, but she did, and I and I already thought I was having a breakdown, and then every moment of this podcast I thought that we were both having a breakdown.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:02

The one thing I stand by the one thing I stand by is my love of Greece too.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:09

That's the only thing you're prepared to stand by.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

It's not the only thing I'm prepared to stand by, but I you know, if people out there are listening to this and going, that poor man, I need people to know that I am of sound mind in my love of Grease too.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:25

I'm just gonna say, your love of Grease 2 will not prove that. It proves the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:30

You could ask me, I could be at my most straight-laced, I could be at my doctor's surgery, awaiting some very serious test results.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

And I would still tell you how amazing Grease 2 is.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:43

Your final words on your deathbed. Look, I just want to go on the record. I love Grease 2.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:49

I'm not convinced, but this podcast is not about Grease 2. Just want to be clear on that. It's about Miss Piggy. Everything I've said about not liking her is true. But I have to say, like, thinking about her again, I do think there's a level of always feeling like the joke was on me because I looked like a pig, apparently, to this little boy who bullied me to school. I had blonde hair. I don't know. He might have been right. It's the nose. I know it is, but I'll never change it. I don't believe in all that plastic surgery. Once you change one thing, you'll start changing everything. You just gotta accept what you are. Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

That's how I feel about getting TikTok. I feel like I've been fundamentally changed since I got TikTok for this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

Yeah, it's it's it's a one-way downhill. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

So uh right, one thing I want to bring up. Right. It it's about campness, but it also kind of reframes Miss Piggy. Right. Someone was talking about her. We'll I'm gonna call them her manager or publicists.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:54

I honestly thought you were gonna say tits.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:57

Some would say creator. Yeah. Miss Piggy emerged at a time in the mid-70s during the kind of women's lib movement.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:12

Where she stepped out as a strong, bold, unapologetic woman.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

Of a certain shape and size that was not being seen in mainstream media and became an overnight success. That takes us down the road of the kind of subversive, I think. She's not she doesn't represent what people think she should be.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:41

My difficulty with it is that people will accept Miss Piggy being glamorous and being unapologetic when they won't accept accept an actual fat or you know unconventionally attractive or um opinionated woman. But they'll accept her because she's a puppet. So I think she's what? She's um they'll accept her because she's pig based.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:11

No, that that just sounds like a bucket of frazzles. Yes, they're they're bacon flavoured, they're they're pig based.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:24

They'll accept her when they won't accept other women.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:29

Is what I'm saying. And I I think I've always had a problem with that, but I do accept that there are women who actually feel they kind of look up to her because when you are starved of representation, sometimes problematic representation is all you have, and so you're happy with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Like I think it goes back to what you said about um she's opened doors, yeah, but she's not necessarily um encouraged everybody through Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

Yeah, and the that that's not necessarily her fault as an individual, yeah, but it's it's the way the system is, it's like but yeah, and I think I didn't like that, and uh but actually I kind of view it with uh you know, she isn't the problem. She's maybe one of the symptoms, but she's not the whole problem. So I kind of like that people have this um uh like respect for her and they they look up to her as and want you it is a bit the same as a Barbie doll, like she has all the looks, she gets to go everywhere, do every job, meet every person, and um unlike Barbie, who doesn't have a voice, unless you count that Barbie movie, which I don't because that just happened and I didn't really care for it, anyway. Um she speaks out and she's loud, and um I re I do enjoy that. I just I've never personally just felt that you know kind of draw to her the way that other people have, but I like that she is that for some some others, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

She is camp though.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:08

Definitely camp. Yes, but Barbie's also camp. There's something about having like ha having the ability to step into an outfit and be that thing, you know, like you put on the costume and suddenly you're a brain surgeon. You know, she puts on the costume of like a fancy French lady and she is that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:25

Yes, she puts on she's puts on the costume of Emily Cratchit. Yeah. And she is that.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:31

Yeah, and so putting on identity in that way, like your identity not being so fundamentally ingrained, but kind of being uh a construction that you take on and off. There's something camp about that. There's definitely something that we've been kind of tracking through things of like you get to choose, you get to choose what your uh reality and your identity is, and you get to make it with clothes and and looks and whatever. That's something that's quite camp. And she and the silliness, there is a silliness to, like I say, how serious Celine Dion is in that clip standing next to her. Yeah. So the the kind of Piggy takes everything seriously. Yeah, 100%, which is why we've taken this podcast very seriously.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

I don't know what you mean.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:21

The listeners will know if they've managed to make it this far.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:28

Well, there we go. That was this week's episode of Camp Icons looking at the myth, the icon, the legend. Miss Piggy. I've never been more convinced that I should be committed.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:46

We we were committed. This is most committed we've ever been.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:51

Did you enjoy that one? I've I've really enjoyed it. I've really enjoyed it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:57

I don't know what's happened. I feel like I've been on a personal journey of growth.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

I think we've we've both set definitely been on a journey this episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:05

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Absolutely. Well, if you have enjoyed it, or in fact, even if you haven't, please give us a follow. Uh we are at Camp Icons Podcast on Facebook and TikTok. Um, at time of recording, I think we've got one follower on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:22

Told you it's not it's not where they're at. It's not where they're at.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:25

So you can follow us there at Camp Icons Podcast on Facebook. I don't know how much longer that's gonna last.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:30

You'll be one of an exclusive club if you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

You will get all of the exclusives on Facebook.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

There aren't any exclusives on Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:40

No, it just shares what we share on Instagram, but for a different audience. Feel free to like, subscribe. All of these things really help us get up the rankings and get seen by other people. Tell a friend, tell a family, tell an enemy, tell your dog we don't mind. Uh, we'll take any less that we can get. Next week, we have another first. We're sort of we've we've established ourselves and now we're trying lots of different different things out. We are gonna be looking at a camp icon who shock horror, yeah listeners, is a man.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

Oh, outrageous! I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:16

I know. We we're going to be looking at the life, the legacy of Mr. Kenneth Williams, star of the carry-on films, and uh some other things that we'll we'll discuss next week. So, thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next week. Bye.

unknown 1:12:35

Bye.