Deep Dive: Patti LuPone in Love Cycle

We’re doing our first deep dive episode this week and we’re starting strong - this TV & Musical Theatre hybrid from the 80’s starring Patti LuPone as a ghost haunting a laundrette has to be seen to be believed!

Watch along with our video section at the links below!

Love Cycle: A Soap Operetta - https://youtu.be/jNaWwh-PVCI?si=pPtRcHd0Cur964eF 

We are indebted to those who have originally uploaded these videos, this podcast wouldn't be possible without them!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello and welcome to Camp Icons. I'm Nick.

SPEAKER_01 0:04

And I'm Liz.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

And this week we're doing something a little different, aren't we? Yes. Ooh. It's a little bit warm today, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:14

We're recording in uh one of the hottest days ever.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

On record. Mm-hmm. That was helpful, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Yes, and I it's sending me I'm starting to feel a little bit crazy.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

I think by the end we're gonna feel real crazy.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Well, I mean, for what we're about to do, I think we're probably getting into the right headspace, if I'm honest.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Oh, okay. Because I'm back to the place where I really don't know what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Well, me neither, really. I so what we're doing this week is we are not covering a person. We are going to go and watch uh a thing. So this week we're watching, it's a half hour, but in future weeks we may watch uh films or TV shows or other sorts of visual media that aren't just clips basically. We're watching whole kind of things. And I'll be honest with you, what we're about to watch is one of the most mental things I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

I was gonna say, you've been bigging it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I have.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

To me, how uh how wild this ride is gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yes, so what we're about to watch is called Love Cycle.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

And the concept of this was that it was a pilot for a series of television musicals.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Where they used the same group of actors every week.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

An anthology musical series.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

An anthology musical series.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

That's a great idea.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

They made the pilot.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

They wrote two others.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

And then nothing happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Mmm, so that gives me an idea of how good this is.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

They were clearly keen on it. They shelved the whole idea.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yes. I don't want to give you too much more information before we begin.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

No, I don't want to, I just I just can't wait.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yes, so uh, we're off to watch Love Cycle. So that was Love Cycle.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Mmm. So yes, starting to understand why they didn't make any more. Really? Mmm, mmm. So I I'm not sure whether our listeners will have um enjoyed this. You know, it is on YouTube if they want to go and find it.

SPEAKER_00 2:46

Yeah, it's about 25 minutes long, and we will, as m we normally do with our clips, we will put a link in the episode description.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

It's unlikely they will have come across it before, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

I don't know how this exists. It didn't have like a production company, like a like a no, like a broadcaster or anything like noticeable on the thing that we watched.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

No, I think what happened is that a broadcaster gave them the money to go and make the pilot.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

And then they sent the pilot to the broadcaster.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

And they said, don't ever come back here again.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

I mean, possibly. Possibly. Did you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Oh, I did enjoy it. Yeah. If it sounds like I'm hating on it, I'm not. I enjoyed it, but it is just wild.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

So let's start at the beginning. We open on quite a sedate sort of black screen white writing love cycle, a soap operetta.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Yeah, to give it its full title.

SPEAKER_00 3:49

Yes, absolutely. The first thing that I notice about it when we transition into the piece proper. The piece. The piece. The piece. Uh it's bright.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

It's very bright.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

I would describe it as 80s bright.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

It's absolutely 80s bright. It was made in 1984.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

It stars Patty Lupone.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Mmm. We haven't got her right at the beginning, though.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

We haven't got her right at the beginning, but I want to take this moment to tell you that by the time she made this, she'd already won her first Tony Award.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

So this is to be taken seriously. Of course. Serious.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

She'd done Evita, she'd got the Tony Awards.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

And then she moved on to this.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Mmm.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Well, we all have ups and downs.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

So the first thing I notice is that it's bright. Yeah. 80s bright, as you say. The second thing I notice, and I mean no disrespect to anybody, is cheap.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Oh, interesting. Okay. Yes, it does look very, very cheap. So we're we're we're in a laundrette.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

We're in a laundrette. We never leave this laundrette.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

We never leave a laundrette. So they didn't have to spend money on multiple sets.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Wherever the money went, I suppose into Patty Lapone, it wasn't into the location. I actually had a different first observation.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Um and I wrote down everyone is ugly. But in brackets positive, because I think they really cast them for talent, not looks, which is a good thing to me, you know? I think everyone on TV and film and everything should be uglier.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yes, I know exactly what you're saying. Nobody looks real anymore on TV.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

They well, they d they don't look real, but also they're using people who are too attractive and haven't got other talents or skills.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

True.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Listen, listen to me. This is a fact, right? You you go to a party, you know who's really boring to talk to? Pretty people. Pretty young people, they have nothing to say, right? Everyone's too attractive, right? If you want something interesting, you need the right old ugos. Now, these aren't that bad, but there are some weird ones in there. I want to specifically point out a man who I think has a t-shirt of his own face.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Yes, I know which one you mean.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Is that his own face, honestly?

SPEAKER_00 6:20

I I've got no idea. We'd have to watch it again.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I just there's no reason why it should be, because it's that's not a plot point or anything.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

No.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

But it seems like it is.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Also, on the on the point of the casting, I think what's really interesting is they've sort of got three young girls, a young boy, and a man who is quite noticeably older.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yes. Yeah. Because they had this idea of the anthology, so I'm guessing they these were the people who were going to use it each time, were they?

SPEAKER_00 6:56

I presume so. I guess if it had gone to like a series order, the cast might have changed and things, but Yeah, and you always need an old bloke. But yeah, I guess they were s sort of thinking in mind of future things as well as this one. So they're all stood round the washing machines.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

And in the corner behind the counter, we've got the man that is running the laundrette.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah, we should talk about him.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

I feel like we're gonna have quite a lot to say about him as the piece progresses. He is sort of peering over the top of his paper at sort of all these young people and their nonsense.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Oh, getting up to hijinks in the laundrette.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

And has got some of the largest mutton chops I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yes, the muttons are excessively large and obviously fake.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

I like a large mutton chop, you know.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

That doesn't surprise me about you.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

I've seen the menu day. Well not anymore, you're married, but.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

I've been married for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

No, but I'll tell you what I like about a mutton chop, right? I don't think it's ever it uh it it never looks right. They always look sort of mad. I I and I think that's the same thing I like about camp. I don't think mutton chops get associated with camp, but at the same time, it's the same thing I like. It's that there's no real purpose to it, it's just excessive and nonsensical.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Absolutely. Um a mutton chop is it is almost like why couldn't you be bothered to grow the rest of it?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Yes, what we why stop there?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Why so much there? Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

At this point, we he's not singing, we don't hear him. We'll I think we'll have more to say.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

I have got a lot to say about him and his speaking and singing. I I I yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Yeah, we'll get there.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Because uh the mutton chops, I don't know what people are assuming, but whatever you're assuming's probably wrong. I had it wrong half of the whole thing. So he yes, so he's the owner of this of this laundrette where everybody's going crazy.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

They start off by sort of speak singing and they're exchanging gossip.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yes. There's gossip flying about, I wasn't really following that.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

I don't think you're supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Fine, good. It did seem to come back because they mentioned some of the names that would be important, but I really didn't get anything from that. All I got was that they were singing a song called Round and Round, which is exactly the same song that I would write if I had to write something set in a laundrette.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

It's the motion of the drum, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yes, it's it's it's it's route one, it's it's the first thing that comes to mind.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

And we knew that because whenever they sang round and round, they showed us a close-up of a washing machine going round and round.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Absolutely, just to make it clear.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Just in case anyone was under any illusion.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah, because they're talking about going round and round in sort of life and relationships, but just to be clear, this is also set in a laundrette, so it's clever.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

They have a little bit of a sing, and there's a man that's not really joining in. He's trying to find a dryer to put his washing in.

SPEAKER_01 10:11

Yeah, right, let's talk about this. Because this lad he wants a dryer, fair enough. He's in a laundrette. Of course he wants to use the dryer. Now he seems to be drawn to one that has danger and out of order written on it.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Right. Well, I oh you may not have picked up on the nuance here.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Oh, sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

Before this, he's gone to a lot of other dryers that are occupied.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

And that's why his eye goes to that. He's like, oh, there's one there, it's just hanging about.

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

I could use it.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Even though it says danger and out of order. Because to me, once I'd seen those, I've like, well, I wouldn't want to use something that's dangerous, obviously. I'll just wait for these ones, even though they're occupied. He seems extraordinarily persistent.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

It's almost hypnotic.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

Yes. He he really wants that dryer.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:05

To uh to the point where I I don't know, yeah, maybe he is being drawn in by it, maybe we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

He goes towards the dryer quite defiantly.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

No, he does, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And then our manager steps out from behind his paper looking quite concerned.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Well, he is concerned.

SPEAKER_00 11:24

And that's where we get the first instance of him speaking. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

How would you describe the way that he speaks?

SPEAKER_01 11:34

I wouldn't even pretend that I could.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

He wrote the word Scottish.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

No. That word never entered my head until about halfway through this. Right. He speaks with an accent. Now that I can well, I I don't know if a a you know singular accent is correct. He is speaking with something of an accent. I thought he was East European.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Really?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

At that stage. Okay. I was like, maybe he's Russian or East European or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Are Russians famous for the mutton chops?

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Well maybe not. But to be honest, I was just confused.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Fair. I think the mutton chops signal Scottish.

unknown 12:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Not exclusively.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

I I have to say, I don't think that that was a stereotype that I had.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

No, I I'm not saying it's a stereotype as such. I have seen a southern mutton chop. But I think the overall image.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

That sounds like one of those tongue twisters you do when you like doing warm-ups for acting. I have seen a southern mutton chop. I have seen a southern mutton chop. I listen, listen.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

He's meant to be Scottish. I know that. Because we hear it later. Somebody says Scottish. And also he pulls out a tartan handkerchief.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And he tells a very Scottish story later on.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

At this stage, Scottish was nowhere in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

He says in this section, one of my favourite lines, which I'm gonna try and emulate.

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Oh please.

SPEAKER_00 13:14

In the accent.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Oh do, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

I I worry mine might be too good.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

And that dryer burns the fires of hell.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yes, the fires of hell, it's quite strong. Yes. And yet our persistent uh dryer enthusiast is not put off.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Well, no, it looks like Scottish manager man has put him off because it goes away.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Briefly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

And then basically, man who wants dryer, he wants it so bad. He sort of goes, ah, fuck it, it'll be fine.

SPEAKER_01 13:50

Even though somebody says to him that there was an accident with an oversized load and now it's a haunted dryer.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

And still, still this guy wants to use the dryer.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yes, and they they bring up at this point the name Rachel.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

Mmm, Rachel.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

They they say that it happened about a year, 18 months ago. Yes. There was an accident with, as you say, a big old load. Caused the uh dryer to explode and kill her.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

I wonder at this stage if we should just check in with the campometer. On Hell Camp we feel it is so far past.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

I think we should.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Yes, yeah. Because to be honest, I think musicals start at a level of camp, don't they?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Because I think so. The the random bursting into song.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

Which some people really can't take. Um they don't like it. But I yeah, something about that, which is kind of stylised and not from real life, it, you know, it has its own thing. It just has a level of camp and showiness, I guess. And the laundrette, something about how like drab a laundrette is, but them kind of wafting this colourful laundry around. It's just all of which is to say it's it's fairly camp, low budget camp. We've done we've seen that before.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

We have.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

But then at the point at which they introduce a haunted dryer and suggest that a woman has died from an oversized load, that's where I think we're digging the first bells on on camp, the campometer is going off.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

We we're yeah. Ding ding ding, we've got a life one.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

What I'd like to bring up here, if I may.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

Oh, of course, of course.

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Is my first plot inconsistency.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

Because they make a very big show of saying that the dryer has exploded.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yes. The dryer's perfectly intact.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

The dryer is perfectly intact intact. So what I want to know is did they painstakingly reassemble all of the exploded pieces of the dryer?

SPEAKER_01 16:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Or is it actually a new dryer that she's randomly decided to haunt? Because it's not the dryer that killed her. No. It sounds in the same place, but it just I mean, of all the things in this that don't make sense, this isn't necessarily the biggest.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

No, well, I wanted to know the same thing because they make such a big deal about how dangerous it would be to use this dryer which my first thought is, well then fix it.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Or get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Or get rid of it. Why would you have that in there? Because now you need an angry Scottish man to guard it all the time. Like, don't just don't have that dryer. Just close it down. You know, maybe an out-of-order sign is not enough if the dryer really contains the fires of hell.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

And as we've established, there's a plethora of other dryers. They're just all in use.

SPEAKER_01 16:56

Yes, it's very it's a very busy time.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

There are six people in that laundry, and five of them are able to use dryers.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Yes. Which I think is The maths really adds up.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Yeah, the law of averages, you don't need to keep the fires of hell.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

No, no, just get rid of that one. You you're doing fine. The business is okay without it. Yeah, absolutely. Get rid of it. Right, we've we've digressed, and now it's time for things to happen.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yes. So one of the things that they mention, and I'm just gonna put it in here because it does come back later.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:29

As well as all the fires of hell. Yes, people's socks go missing in that dryer.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Oh yes. Well uh this is it's sort of a downgrade, isn't it? Because they start at Fires of Hell. Yes. Then you say, Well, how is this thing haunted? Oh, well, sometimes people's socks go missing. I think one of the characters actually says, that happens. That's just a normal thing.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I think it's quite a camp juxtaposition.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

What's the worst you've got for me, Fires of Hell? I'm gonna take your socks.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Occasionally socks will go missing. And hasn't somebody also seen a face? Is that something else?

SPEAKER_00 18:04

A face has been mentioned and moans have been mentioned.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Oh yes, moans, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Just again to really just in case you're not sold on the fact that it's haunted, yeah. There have been moans.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

There have been moans identified, yes. Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

So then we get some special effects.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

They're not that special.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

So then we get some effects.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yes, there we go.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

We get some smoke.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

Smoke, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Yeah, and we get a lot of blue light.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And the way that this is utilized to show us that something is happening, yeah, is to shine the blue light on close-ups of other people's faces. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

We don't ever really see the dryer.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

We don't ever really see anything happening.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

As That's not strictly true.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

As Patty Lupone, as Rachel materialises.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Another of my favourite bits happens now. We've got close-ups of people's faces shined in blue.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And in the background to that, we've got Patty Lupone going, Woo!

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Woohoo! Woo! Woo! Just in case you weren't sold on the idea that she's a ghost.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

A ghost is coming.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

Ghost is coming.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Um, going, woo!

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah. And then she arrives.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

She arrives, and I I think we should talk about her look.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

We absolutely need to talk about the look.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Because there's been a lot of depictions of ghosts here throughout history of um, you know, m film and media and everything.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

She let I want to start at the top. Yes. She is rocking a pure 80s mullet.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yes. I wanted to start with the mullet too.

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

I think this is a thing, isn't it, that with ghosts you kind of imagine their look to be more timeless.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

But if you subscribe to the notion that the ghost will just look like how it did when it died, people will die with mullets. And they will. So that is accurate.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I find it really interesting that whenever people talk about ghosts they you know they see Victorian people.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah. Lots of people have died since then.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

You don't ever see like, I don't know, like a glamour model ghost.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

No, just on a phone.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

You want to see huge tits on a ghost, is that it?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

I don't want to see huge tits on a ghost. What I'm saying is, I'm sure some people have died that have got huge tits.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

Right, exactly. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, it's just this weird It's just this weird thing about ghosts. They always seem to be old timey.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

We want them to be old timey, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Patty, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Absolutely not. Full mullet. I would say also her makeup, they've definitely done ghost makeup.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

They've done ghost makeup, and I think they've it's almost like they've filmed her separately and turned up the contrast and the exposure and things.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I do think that's happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

Ghost makeup.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

But definitely also 80s ghost makeup. Because she could almost get away with just like being in the cure. She just she j she just looks a bit if she went on the street, people would just think she was a goth at that stage.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

A new romantic, I think you'll find in the 80s.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Maybe, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

She's a new romantic ghost.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

She yeah, she just that the the there's something so 80s about the makeup that she could just get away with it. Yeah. Which but I do think you're right, I think they have turned up the contrast because I almost couldn't look at her at some point because she's so It's sort of almost like floating eyes and mouth. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

There's not there's no sort of definition to the face. Yeah. It's just like a a white orb.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

The eyes are so dark and yeah, it's a bit it's a bit freaky at times. I'm not sure I'm not sure I'm I was scared.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

No, not not by the look.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

Not by the look. I'm scared for other reasons, but Well, she's quite dramatic when she comes out. Very dramatic. She comes out full force.

SPEAKER_00 22:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Because one of the first things I wrote down that she says is she just shouts out Vengeance!

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yes. I shall have my vengeance.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Vengeance I I again think that this is like this is what's camp. It's just fully going for it. Like you don't often get people just yelling out Vengeance anymore.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I think what's camp in some ways about this is it's almost a stage performance for a filmed medium.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Yes, and also in a very not even a cinematic filmed medium, the smallest of small TV sets. Yeah. It feels small, and yet her performance is huge. She also accuses um our friend the Scotsman of killing her.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Because of a faulty dryer.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yes. And then he says.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

She's taking no responsibility for that oversized load.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Was it her oversized load?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Or was she just standing near the oversized load?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Who knows? She It wasn't Malcolm's oversized load, was it?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

I hope not.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

That's his name, the Scottish guy.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

He then tries to shift the blame and says that actually someone in the Bronx owns the laundrette.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Yes. He doesn't even own it, he's just the manager.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

And then she says she's been in there for 18 months.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

To which he says one of my favourite lines.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

Eighteen months? You must be very dry. I don't know about you. When I think of ghosts, I assume they're dry.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Well, I do too.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

I've never seen a big wet ghost.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

No, even a ghost that drowned, I would assume dry now.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

You would like to think that they dry out on the other side.

unknown 24:10

You would like to think.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

Especially in the you know, fires of hell, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, well yes, of course.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Is heaven wetter than hell? I think that Souds, haven't they? Clouds are moist.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, they're water vapour, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Heaven could be moist, is what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Big soggy heaven.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Oh I don't know about that. Foam party in heaven. Oh, so glad I'm an atheist.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Um we then launch into our next song.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Which I've titled My Love.

unknown 24:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:48

She sings the words my love quite a lot.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

It's quite a short song.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

She's great though. I mean she's obviously a great performer, and I don't think the song is too bad. It's not an instant classic, but it's not appalling.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

It's not the one that's stuck in my head.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

No, fair.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

She sings it very well.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:08

She I I do think that right, so I love Patty LePone.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

And generally I will de defend Patty Le Pone to the ends of the earth. And I think she's doing the best with what she got she's got. And also I think she sort of knows what she's got as well. And is having fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, I think yes, this is probably the best you can do. Yeah. It's just have a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

It is big, it's crazy, but she's just enjoying herself.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah. I didn't mind the song.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

No. Um then she tells us about her plan.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

I am absolutely thrilled with the plan. So she does she say something to Malcolm about the plan? Is he still there at that point?

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah, they're all still there.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

They're all still there, right.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And she says the plan she said he says it it's something along the lines of I'm not having any violence in here.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

And she says Because she's she's angry about her other half.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yes. We haven't discussed this, have we? I don't think we've discussed this. No, her other half, Stephen.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Steve, Stephen, has gone off with some other woman.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Yes, and this happened before she died.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Before she died. Yes. Debbie.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Debbie.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

And so she knows about this. And everybody seems to know also in the laundrette. I don't know if I thought they were just random customers. They all seem to know this big story of betrayal. The regulars. The regulars.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Some people go to the pub, some people go to the laundrette.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Well, yeah. Um, so she's not happy with him, and this I think is why you know she can't rest. She has unfinished business with Steve. So she has a plan.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

She has a plan. Malcolm thinks that she's gonna inflict pain.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

And she says, No, I'm not gonna do that, I'm gonna seduce him. To which Malcolm says, I won't have no naked ghosts in here.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Again, a lot better than his accent. Thank you. I think you're really doing him credit. Um Yes, so her plan but she she reassures him that she's not going to get naked.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

No, she's gonna get more than naked.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

More than naked. The plan is to seduce him while invisible. Yes. And she also uh at this point reveals some powers that she has.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Because she can sense how far away Steve and Debbie are.

SPEAKER_00 27:31

Yes, by putting two pom-poms from her dress up to her temples.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

That is a good detail, I'm glad we didn't skip that.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Um Should we take a minute for the dress? The campometer. Pom poms for a ghost. Uh how do you feel?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

So the outfit in general.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Yes. Whenever I think about this Whenever I think about this, which is often.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

I I imagine her wearing a white sheet. I think she's wearing a white sheet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But on this watch through, I did notice that it's it's got some detail. It is a dress.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

It's a dress.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

It's got some pom-poms. I think it's got some like lace. It's a bit where she holds it up in front of her face and you can see through it. Netting, that's what I mean, not lacking.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Yes, yeah, yeah. It's also it's not like floor length.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

No.

SPEAKER_01 28:25

It's shorter than that.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

Which again, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

It's an 80s car, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:30

It's an 80s car, it's an 80s cart, and I get that she looks like a woman who died 18 months ago. Yes. But also, I do think of a ghost in like a long dress. I don't want to see a ghost sneeze, basically. It's it's odd to me. Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

I don't know why. Like, I think there's something about like the gothicness of ghosts, where they have a huge, floaty, dramatic dress, and she's got this little 80s number with pom-poms on. The top part of it is almost like a poncho, the way it's sort of like draped over her. It's yeah, it's really weird.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

It goes back to you know, no glamour model ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

No. I don't know why I'm so stuck on glamour model ghosts.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

That's the one type of ghost you want to see representation for.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

More ghost tits. That's my platform.

SPEAKER_01 29:21

Yes, getting on a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

So then we have my favourite song of the piece.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Of the piece.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I again, I don't know the names of these songs. I've called it I'm haunting you.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

This is definitely the best one. And the campist.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I think it is the campist, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Oh, it's absolutely it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

So she proceeds to Oh no, sorry, before this, we must acknowledge the fact that she asks everybody in the laundrette to do her a favour.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Oh, this is her other power.

SPEAKER_00 29:57

And then we get a close-up of her lips. Yes. Sort of rocky horror style.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

And she says the word get out.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

And we're we're kind of given a sort of demonic modulation.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

I was going to say, it's scary ghost voice. It's you can imagine it, people. There's that yeah, yeah, yeah. Demonic modulation.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Demonic modulation.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

We're coining all the phrases.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Everybody runs out, she gets herself ready, checks herself out in the mirror that she can't see herself in. And then Steve and Deborah come in.

SPEAKER_01 30:30

Yes, Steve and Deborah have arrived. And Deborah says, Steve, why do you suppose a large group of people just ran out screaming in terror?

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Totally unfazed.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

She she she does it, yeah, in a kind of Steve, why do you suppose? Like a real it's a camp delivery because it's camp, yeah. An obviously ridiculous line.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:55

It's yeah, it's one of those lines that is totally absurd and kind of meant to be like, yeah. Uh great. I loved that bit. I loved that bit. I've got a question.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

So Steve and Steve and Deborah, Debbie, arrive into this laundrette. Why does he still use the laundrette that kills his ex-wife? Or his wife, I guess, because uh they didn't get divorced, did they? No.

SPEAKER_00 31:25

I don't know. I don't know how pre-death the betrayal was.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Well, we also don't know how far the next laundrette is, but I really feel that I would try and locate a different one.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Especially if manager of said laundrette was going around telling everybody that the ghost of your dead ex-wife was haunting the dryer.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Yes. Yeah. Because I think news would travel of that. And I I just I wouldn't want to be seen there.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

You raise a valid point. They have a little chat about Debbie's commitment issues, I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Yes, they've they're sharing their views on marriage.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

Yes. And Debbie's not very much if she wants to go ahead with marriage. That's what we get at this point.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Whereas Steve's very, very keen on marriage, he thinks it's it's great.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Although he didn't think his marriage to uh Rachel was that great. Clearly not. She slacks it off a few times. And we know Patty La Pone, we're watching her, she's lurking in her ghost form.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

She's somewhat invisible. Throwing in some asides.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Marriage!

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Marriage! Debbie suddenly says, Oh no, I always forget the towels.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:36

And leaves.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

So she has to go and get the towels.

SPEAKER_00 32:38

Which begs the question, how close do they live to the laundrette?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Well, I suppose that's why he doesn't want to go and find another one. It's so convenient, easy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Then we get into I'm haunting you.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

I'm haunting you, yes. Which is absolutely an amazing number.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

This is the one that I'm singing when it's finished.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Right, gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

I don't blame you. It's it's full of incredible details.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yes. One of my favourites I think you missed because I looked at you and you were writing a note.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Rachel sings a line about casting a net.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

And then it cuts to her with a pair of castanets, briefly clicking them.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

I absolutely did miss that.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Because at no point did I think castanets were featured.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

No. Well they were castanets. So Steve's going about his daily laundrette life.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Putting things in, trying to get coins.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

He's very frustrated by all the vending machines. It's a right, old palava.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Yes, he's frustrated, and yet I would say almost underplaying frustration as well.

SPEAKER_01 33:47

Mmm. Because he's he he's having to play that frustration whilst cheerily sort of popping into the song.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

Because she's singing, you know, I'm haunting you, I'm taunting you, and he's like, oh, I'm my fifty cents.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

And she's haunting and taunting him by dancing around him.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Yes. This will be the invisible seduction.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

At one point standing behind him and doing a back bend in order to tickle his neck. Which I venture.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Well, even if you can be seen, that's not something you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

I'd just like to throw in at this point that Steve really isn't worth fighting over. He just isn't.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

He's a bit bit of a drip, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah. Also, all of his views are offensive to me. It's just like, oh what an idiot. You know, my marriage was crap, but you should definitely get married, and oh, I can't seem to work a vending machine, I've dropped all my powder. What an absolutely useless male. Yeah, I did I didn't really warm to Steve. He has got a very nice singing voice, but I didn't warm to him.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

How would you feel if Steve had mutton chops?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Uh better. I think he he would look like he was in um mud. Oh no, wizard.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

But might use him up a little bit then.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Yeah, I don't well I don't think I don't I don't think it would bump him up to a different category.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

Fine.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

But I think maybe I would I'd just judge him a little less harshly.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

Other things that we get in I'm Haunting You Ghost Rachel emerges from a washer doing what I'm gonna call sexy hands.

SPEAKER_01 35:33

One of those top-loading washers.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Yes, she's sort of subductively. She's poking out. She's poking out. She's she's sort of spinning as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:41

She is spinning, yes. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of spinning.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

It's a lot of spinning. And then, possibly my favourite bit, he slams the lid and she has a breakdown in the dryer. Yes. Which sounds something like this. Woo! Because he's got to be ghosty. We've got to remember she's a ghost even when we can't see her.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

Yes, because what we what we see is the machine rattling around. Yes. Um and he says, Oh, I've forgotten the bleach. Again, the the the campometer off the scale during this song because the yeah, the shot of the machine rattling and her, you know, being inside is so funny and so silly. Um yeah, I loved that. Oh, there's a great bit uh uh to calm as well, actually. Because this whole song is amazing.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Well it it culminates, doesn't it? In I I've written the haunting.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

The haunting.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

Yes. The first thing that happens when she begins to let him know that a ghost is there. Yeah, is that a bright red bra comes out of a washing machine a little bit like substitutiary locomotion in bednells and broomsticks.

SPEAKER_01 36:57

One of my favourite films of all time.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

One of my favourite sequences of all time.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Yes, absolutely. There's a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

A little, it's not quite as impressive.

SPEAKER_01 37:07

It isn't anywhere near as impressive, but it is very funny to me that they used a red bra to sort of demonstrate this point. Yeah. It's just very comical.

SPEAKER_00 37:16

And not even, again, I'm not an expert, but I would say not even a particularly nice bra.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Absolutely. Because red bra sounds very sexy.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yes, and I don't want anyone uh listening to get too excited about red bra.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

Please don't get excited. It's not a sexy bra. It is what I would call workmanlike.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Not that a workman would use it, but if you put it on, you go, the girls aren't going anywhere. I can do a job of work.

SPEAKER_00 37:46

Okay, right. Which of the women from the ensemble do you think has put that bra in the washer?

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Interesting. Interesting. I don't think it's the one who wears the sneakers on her shoulder. Okay. I think she'd have a proper sexy one because she's got she's wearing like zebra print and stuff. It's not her.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

No.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

There's the one with the face. I think it could be her.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

I think it could be her.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yes, okay. I think, yeah, we agree.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

It's the one I had in mind.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Good. Okay, we're on the same page.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

So the bra flies.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Yes. And then they didn't have the budget for the full bed knobs and broomsticks.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

No, so they just started chucking clothes around the room. Yes. And it all culminates in Steve getting overwhelmed by clothes.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Oh, he is overwhelmed by clothes. He's he's defenseless.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Uh during this, Debbie comes back.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Presumably with her towels. She's not holding any. Not holding any, and she is eating an apple. I think she just went for a snack. I didn't notice that. I'm sure she's eating an apple because she just comes back. It's like they gave it to her so she would look kind of nonchalant. Yeah. Right? And then, yes, she walks into Steve, is in a mound of clothes. Yeah. Not making any effort to get out. This is this is done for him. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Rachel sends some clothes towards Debbie.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Oh yeah, she gets some clothes as well. She gets some clothes.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

She gets out of hers.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

She's fine.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

She's not as quick as I would get out of a pile of clothes. It's still a little laboured. At least she's making the effort though. Because she gets out of her pile of clothes and he's just waving.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Has to help him. I told you he was useless. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's his hand is waving out of the pile. So she has to remove them from him.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Underneath the clothes, he he still has a bra on his head.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

On his head, yes. Not the red bra. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

A white bra, also workmanlike. And he say he delivers the line something funny's going on here. Which again is is sort of fabulously like unaware. Like, you know, when characters deliver a life something's going on. They're so so underwhelmed for their circ the actual circumstances. That's there's something very funny to me about that. I don't know where it comes from, I don't know what the style is called, but it's like, yeah, that line just does not live up to the circumstances he is in.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Rachel makes herself known at this point. Yes. She stops being invisible. They both see her and they both say they're a little bit spooked.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

But I don't really see any sort of discernible reaction or emotion.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Fear, no.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

No.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

No. Not as much as I would have.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

If my dead ex-wife that was haunting a dryer and lived in the fires of hell.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

I'd come back 18 months later and attacked me.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

It is an attack.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

My friend Debbie with clothes. Yeah. They they instead he makes a terrible joke about a t a terrible sort of pun about um she doesn't look she looks he says she looks good. It's some sort of pun on hair dye, and he's like, Your hair's the same colour. And she's like, No, I died. This some I can't get it. It's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. But j just just know that this moment is not a moment of fear or any kind of uh anxiety around what a ghost might want to do to them. No, just an opportunity for a pun.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

He then decides he's not having it.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Mmm. Mmm.

SPEAKER_00 41:43

Debbie tries to interject.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Rachel shouts, shut up. I'm not gonna do it like her. I c I couldn't. No. I couldn't live up to that performance. It's quite a dramatic reading of the line.

unknown 41:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

And a towel flies over her face, rendering her speechless.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Yeah, and she can't she can't remove that towel.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

No, she can't remove that. It's like pinning her back.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yes, it's some sort of ghostly um force. Force.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Forcing the towel into her face.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Forces at work, in this.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

I've also written down at this point that Patty is growling a lot.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I wrote growling noises.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

It's almost like somebody was like, how do we up the drama and the ghostliness and how do we make it feel like there's tensions point? Can we just get Patty to growl?

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Do you think she'd just do some growls? Because he's he's not being very nice to her. No. He's sort of saying, like, well our marriage wasn't that great actually, and I sort of don't really care what you think. And her response to all of this is lots of lots of growling.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

I've also I've also um written down throw your head back acting, which is a s is a it's a style that not everybody can get away with. No, not every production can incorporate, but we do get some full throw your head back acting from Patty at this point.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

There's one in particular where she throws that head back so far. Yes. I worry she's gonna topple. She launches it back, and there's there's the worry that she's not gonna come back up again. He then says, I've had enough of this, I'm leaving. She says, Over my dead body.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Classic. I have to get that line in somewhere. Yeah. Just funny.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

She tries to block his path and then he walks through her and leaves the laundry.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

There's some quite inexplicable sort of things happening at the point. So so Rachel says, You're gonna love me by like the count of ten.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Oh yes, she does.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Which is it's like how you get uh kids to, you know, go to bed or eat their dinner where, you know, I want by the count of ten. Okay. She's demanding love. Um which he can't do, and he's not yeah, he's not really inclined to listen to any of these demands.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

He's No, I feel Love Me by the Count of Ten is quite camp, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 44:16

Love Me by the Count of Ten, I think we could write that song to add that into this. I think it could do with another number. Is this right, so he leaves, so this is the point where we get Debbie and Rachel. Rachel are left alone.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

This is where my second plot inconsistency comes in.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

Please speak on it because I'm furious at this one. Yeah, go on.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

He has just left the launderette by walking through her. Right. At this point, she beckons over some sort of stool, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Yes, she can move the stool.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

And quite happily sits down on it.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

This is not what I'm furious about. What is your ghost lore? Can the are can the ghosts sit? And if they can sit, why can they sit? But don't prevent somebody from walking through you. There's just so many ghosty inconsistencies.

SPEAKER_01 45:11

Now, this is not what I'm furious about at all.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Right. I think this is a normal thing that ghosts are inconsistent.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Right. I I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

No, I understand, but like I think that they can sit for the same reason that they can stand on the floor, or are they just should they just be levitating? I tell you what they shouldn't be doing.

unknown 45:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Right. Which is whatever oh who's it who plays Obi-Wan Kenobi? Alec Guinness. Yes. Whatever he does in the version of Scrooge, where he plays the ghost of Oh no, he plays Marley, he plays Jacob Mark.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Okay, I've not seen this version.

SPEAKER_01 45:50

Okay, so what he does is he just does a very sort of camp kind of Ooh motion the entire time. So the entire time that he's delivering these serious lines, he's wiggling, pretending that he's floating.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

It's incredibly camp and distracting. I I enjoy it, but it's just you cannot think about anything else apart from how much Alec Guinness is wiggling around in the scene. So I'm just saying I don't think that that's the play. I think it's better to just go, oh ghosts, we don't really know.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Right, okay, well then but from what you've just said, okay, if ghosts are having to make an effort to stand right why do they need to sit down? Because I sit down when I want to have a rest. Yes. When I want to take the weight off my feet.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

But if you're having to make an effort to stand as a ghost, then you would also having to be make an effort to sit. So what's the point?

SPEAKER_01 46:56

Variety.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

I would say is the spice of life, and you're dead.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

So you can't have variety anymore, you're a ghost.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

You can have consistent variety.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

No, no. I think I think variety, wow, variety really is the spice of life because do you know what I think about when I think of ghosts is the sameness. They're always haunting the same places, she's always in that bloody dryer. Yeah. You know, you just you could you you don't get the variety of experience. Wow, that phrase really holds up. I think she sits down to be more relatable to um Debbie.

SPEAKER_00 47:34

Okay, well you can say what you like, but I don't think she needs to. But anyway. Then we get the plot twist.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

This is the thing I'm angry about. I'm furious. This isn't a plot twist, this is bad writing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

Oh, this is bad writing, but ghosts standing down or sitting up, you're willing to accept.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yes, actually. I am. I'm quite, you know, it's a ghost. I'm I'm quite amenable to whatever they want to do because it doesn't make sense anyway, does it?

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Right, tell me about why you're annoyed at the plot twist.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

Right, so the plot twist is that Steve and Debbie are not a couple.

SPEAKER_00 48:20

No.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

So they had a whole conversation at the beginning where we believed they were talking about getting married, and Steve was trying to convince Debbie to marry him, and she didn't want to. But now they're trying to say that that wasn't what that conversation was.

SPEAKER_00 48:37

And I will say that conversation closed with her saying, I'm lucky I've got you, and kissing him on the lips.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yes, right. You see why I'm angry? Because this is just this is just screwing us over as an audience. We believed what you told us. Oh, how foolish we are, right? And now it's like, oh no, no, we're not together.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

As someone that has watched it multiple times, that first conversation, there is nothing that where they explicitly say that they're going to marry each other. Yeah. I I do understand what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 49:14

I don't I should hope so. But I'm furious.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Also when you go back and look at the nuance of the first scene.

SPEAKER_01 49:21

I won't I won't be going back to look at the nuance. I if I watch it again, I will watch it with maximum prejudice, right? Because I don't care what tricksy wording they used, right? No woman would stay friends with Steve unless she was sleeping with him, right? This is a funny plot hole. It's dreadful. Why would you stay friends with him? Awful. No way, no way she stays friends with him.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

I mean, and also to that end, yeah, why are you kissing him on the lips?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Exactly. Once a cheater, always a cheater. She's probably just as bad because she's kissing him and keeping him on the hook while she can't decide whether she wants to marry another one. How quickly did she it's only been 18 months.

SPEAKER_00 50:05

And I mean, generally, men and women who are friends don't kiss each other on the lips. No. You and I, not once.

SPEAKER_01 50:12

Oh god, no, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

If that happened, I would never be able to speak to you again. But it's like when I leave today, I'm not going to turn around and go, Oh, I'm so lucky I've got you and give you a kiss on the lips.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 50:24

Before your dog watches me leave.

SPEAKER_01 50:30

I don't know, I no. There well, there are zero people that I would kiss on the lips apart from my husband. No, thank you. I know no, I don't accept anybody really kissing on the lips other than that. It's disgusting. Uh just just we've had COVID now, keep it to yourselves. I just I wasn't happy with that as a plot twist. It's not the plot twist I needed. It would have been better if he if we found out he murdered Patty. That would have been an interesting plot twist.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

It was his massive load.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

It was his oversized load that did it. That would explain why she stays friends with him, why he can get all these women if it was the oversized load of Steve.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Oh, he's just full of it. They then sing a song.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

Again, I'm gonna call this one Things Change because that seems to be the repeated motif.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

That's what I've written down, Things Change.

SPEAKER_00 51:25

Another one of my favourite lyrics is in Things Change.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

On the subject of men, Debbie sings, We Can Just Caress It, Not Possess It. Nice, it's he has a good line. It's uh it's quite deep that line, actually, because I think it's about materialism. Do you think so? Yeah, you don't need to possess it. We just touch it up every now and again. I go into the shop, I can finger the good Alright, what shop should you go in? I can go into the shops. I could just touch the things I want and I don't need to buy them.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

That's what this song means to you.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

I don't know that I that's what I thought she was talking about.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

Sort of about free love, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

I think she's talking about getting some from Steve.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

And then uh not committing to her other partner who she's also getting some from.

SPEAKER_00 52:22

Rachel, you don't just need Steve. Think of all those ghosts that you can be knocking off in the fiery pits of hell.

SPEAKER_01 52:29

Banging through lo there's loads of fit ghosts that have probably died.

SPEAKER_00 52:32

Rachel, go and enjoy yourself.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is it? 84, you know, Elvis is down there and he's um He definitely went that way.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Go on, Rachel, can't get a bit of Elvis.

SPEAKER_01 52:44

Although, according to Rita Marino, didn't know what he was doing.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Oh, didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Mm-hmm That's what she says.

SPEAKER_00 52:50

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Somebody somebody says to her at some point, you've banged Elvis and Marlon Brando. Which was better? And she's like, Oh, shut up, it's like a man versus a little kid.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

So But I guess when you're Elvis you don't need to know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

That's absolutely correct.

SPEAKER_00 53:05

Because it's just constantly there. You haven't got to learn any tricks.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

No, you haven't.

SPEAKER_00 53:09

Everyone wants it from you.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

Why put any in any effort?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

He didn't put in any effort.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

No. I imagine that he He was putting in the effort on stage though.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

We'll give him that. Yeah. Backstage. Uh what he was getting up. Despicable. Uh utterly despicable things.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Anyway. Enough about Elvis. Disgusting. By the end of the song, Rachel's decided she doesn't need Steve anymore. She doesn't need to enact her vengeance. And she can just move on.

SPEAKER_01 53:41

All she really needed all this time was just one chat from a female friend.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

Yeah. Saying Steve's not that great.

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Steve is shit.

SPEAKER_00 53:48

Go and get it somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Get it somewhere else. Loads of fit dead people.

SPEAKER_00 53:53

Debbie leaves, not taking with her any of the washing that they've brought to the laundry.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Who can think about washing at a time like this?

SPEAKER_00 54:02

Well it's all strewn all over the floor, you'd at least tidy up after yourself, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

She leaves. Everybody else that was in the laundry at the beginning are suddenly peering through the door.

SPEAKER_01 54:14

Yeah, nosy buggers, they've just been round the corner, haven't they?

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Yeah, they weren't that scared.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

No, they was they've been watching.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Or Steve's left and gone, oh, it's only Rachel again.

SPEAKER_01 54:22

Only Rachel, she's going wild in there.

SPEAKER_00 54:24

Yeah. They come back in and Rachel basically says Well, I'm going now.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

See, this is this is where I think the pilot didn't get picked up because there's something a little bit convenient about the way everything is wrapped up. Because it's a it's it's a 25-minute musical.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Yes. You think that's the reason it didn't get picked up?

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Among others.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

I think that I think there's something about how quickly we have to wrap everything up.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Her I her little speech where she's like, I'm not going to haunt this dryer anymore, so don't worry about that. You can have your dryer back.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

It may still overheat from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 55:01

But that's not my fault, that's just dryers for you. Also, because I'm a benevolent ghost.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

I want to show you my benevolence.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

I'm going to give you all the odd socks back.

SPEAKER_00 55:13

Yes. She doesn't she doesn't tell them what she's going to do. She says, I'm going to give you a gift.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

I'm going to give you a gift.

SPEAKER_00 55:18

And it's the one in the zebra print.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

That very excitedly runs, grabs all the socks out of the dryer, and goes, The socks are back!

SPEAKER_01 55:28

Just absolutely dreadful. Yes. And then um she goes back in the dryer.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Well we go back in we go into a reprise of round and round.

SPEAKER_01 55:38

Oh, of course we do.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

How could I forget the reprise? They're all gathered round the dryer.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Her little face is pressed up against the glass. She's in there with quite a lot of smoke. And blue light.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

And blue light.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

And she's waving.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

She's waving. She's sort of like trapped in a meatloaf video whilst we're all outside in the colourful 80s, you know, world waving goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 56:01

It's really weird that you've brought up meatloaf, because one of the things I read about this is that one of those ensemble girls was the voice on Paradise by the Dashboard Light. Stop.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

That's so weird. Yeah. That's really weird.

unknown 56:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:16

She waves. Oh, there's a bit of confusion about two of the young women introducing the older man. One says he's her husband and one says he's her lover. I don't believe that for a second.

SPEAKER_01 56:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

No.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

He hasn't got it in him.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

No. For either. No. They could do much better. I know you called them Argos. But they could do much better than that camp old man.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

It's very old. It's very old. Yeah, no, no. I did call Argos, which is not fair, they're not really Ugos. I think I'm I think what I'm saying is I I don't see people's faces anymore on TV.

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 56:55

These are actual faces.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

They're very actual.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

And then we get the credits, and that's the end of Love Cycle of Soap Operetta.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Just just before we leave it, I do have to say the the the the campometer of Patty Lapone in a dryer with a lot of dry ice and blue light. Quite high off the scale at that point.

SPEAKER_00 57:17

It looks like she's going into space.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

It does, yes. It does look like she's either way.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

It's got an echo of Button Moon.

SPEAKER_01 57:24

Mmm. And that's all that's all love cycle.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

That's love cycle. So breaking it down breaking the campometer down.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:32

We've got excess.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

We've definitely got excess.

SPEAKER_00 57:36

We've got colour, which you've spoken about before.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

We've got now I don't want to say something being cheap automatically makes it camp.

SPEAKER_01 57:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

But there is sort of an element of pulling together all the threads and it not quite looking as polished as you maybe thought it might.

SPEAKER_01 57:54

Yes. Trying to do excess on a budget.

SPEAKER_00 57:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

And yes, that I definitely think that's in there. It is. It's something about trying for Rasmatas and ending up with the best that you could have done with the money available.

SPEAKER_00 58:14

Yes, there's something in the writing that is camp.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:18

There's some quite over-the-top lines in there. I think we've covered quite a few of them. I think for me it also gets perfectly summed up when old Mutton Chops tells the story of his dead great-grandfather and says that he died playing the bagpipes, and then someone pulled his Scottish skirts over his face and suffocated him.

SPEAKER_01 58:41

Smothered by his own skirts.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

Yes. Don't you just hate that when you get smothered by your own kilt?

SPEAKER_01 58:47

Yes. Dreadful, dreadful. It is a it's uh you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

And he yeah, there's something about the writing that takes it beyond a place of realism, I think is what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Yeah, absolutely. They're going to it it is silly in places.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

Well, it it's silly full stop, but it's it's knowingly silly.

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

There's something about being knowing that is camp, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 59:11

It's like I think there was I think there's definitely some knowing from the cast.

SPEAKER_01 59:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:17

Obviously I can't speak for production because I don't I don't know what they were trying to achieve with it.

SPEAKER_01 59:23

Do you imagine them just sitting down and going, we must take this very seriously? There's got a real chance to make something great here.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

I don't know that they did that either.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

No, I don't think so. I think they know. I think that's what I'm talking about with these lines where they're going, you know, Steve, why does such a large group of people just run out terrified?

SPEAKER_00 59:44

I think It's almost like B movie writing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 59:47

Yes, it is. Yeah. That's it. Absolutely. And yeah, I think it would have been hard for them to do a whole series and keep up the quality.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

Keep up the quality.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:02

Keep up the quality of the writing and the strong plot lines.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

I think you can say it with a straight thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

I think they'd have really struggled to build on this. Oh, sorry. I've gone supersonic. Um yes, I I I uh 'cause I think a musical needs quite a lot of um stuff to come together. Yes the the s the songs, the the the plot, the writing, the acting acting, floating bras, all of it needs to come together. And I think that's hard to do week on week as as a TV series, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Definitely.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

I can understand why that it didn't w they didn't trust them to go again.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:56

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

So that was the first of our deep dive episodes. Did you enjoy that one, Liz?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

I really did. I think this will be um something people haven't come across.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:08

I also think that. Um Which I think is a shame.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

It's out there if you know they want to go and find it, but it's definitely it's made us think about a lot of types of camp.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Oh, I thought you were just gonna say it's made us think about a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Oh, I've got a lot to think about. I'm just going to sit with my thoughts and stare into the washing machine. You're your I haven't got a dryer.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:31

You haven't got a dryer. Do your socks go missing?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

Uh yes, they go missing, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:37

Now you know who it is. Now I know it's Patty Lupone with a mullet. So, as ever, if you have enjoyed the podcast, please do like, subscribe, leave us a review, tell all the people you know that the podcast exists, because we would love to get more listeners coming through. You know, I don't want to sound desperate, but we'd just like as many people to listen to it as possible. Please. Uh you can follow us on socials. We are at Camp Icons Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. And we also have a Facebook page which is Camp Icons Podcast. Thank you very much for listening, and we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

Bye.