Deep Dive: Miss World 1980

For this weeks deep dive we’re travelling back to 1980 and the world of the beauty pageant… yes, it’s Miss World featuring dance numbers, group singing, Judith Chalmers and a lot (A LOT) of watching women walking about.

Watch along with our video section at the links below!

Miss World 1980 - https://youtu.be/Y44G6Osdz3g?si=krmBHm48jYlbdJbt 

We are indebted to those who have originally uploaded these videos, this podcast wouldn't be possible without them!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello, welcome to Camp Icons. I'm Nick. And I'm Liz. How are you this week, Liz? I'm very well, thank you. Good. You say that every week.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Well, I d I don't want to start on a down note. Yeah, I mean fair.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Fair.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Do you want to share any problems? Uh I I won't. Do I usually ask you how you are? Or are I being rude all the time?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

I don't think so, but we established that I never thank you a couple of episodes ago. So Because of course Let's just call it quit.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

This is strange, but anyway, because obviously you have to arrive at my house, so I ask you how you are then.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Yes. Come in, I see the dog, I get taken upstairs.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Now don't start, because it sounds like a 1976 comm where you're the milkman. Now, it's nothing like that.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Not bringing you any of my milk.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Oh dear! Oh, we started on an odd note. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Not normally this crude, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Not this early anyway.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Not this soon, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Right, well, I think we should probably move quite swiftly on.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Right, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

We this week are going to be doing another deep dive into an entity that is camp in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

I think people might be a bit surprised by this one.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I think they will be. Yeah. Possibly not by the time we've finished. No, no. Uh so this week we are going to be watching Miss World 1980.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Woo!

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Camp I'm now I assume 1980 has been chosen because it's available and not because it was a particularly camp year.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yes, um, I haven't sat down and vetted all of the Miss Worlds ahead of time.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

That would be real diligent work if you had done.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yes, it sort of came about because Judith Chalmers recently passed away. And I was reading some articles about her, and obviously I I remember watching her on Wish You Were Here when I was a kid. That was still on and still going.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

I remember avoiding watching Wish You Were Here because I couldn't stand it. Maybe a bit her.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

But I read that she had hosted like she had a long association with hosting Miss World.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

Which is something I hadn't realised.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

No, I didn't realise that either. And I saw the picture of her in the article, and I thought, it's probably quite camp.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

Yes, yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yes. So this is what we track down.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, I guess we should give it a go.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yes. So we open with 67 women skipping through a park looking at Churchill.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Well, yes, it's important to say this one is hosted in London.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I don't know if all of them were.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Well, I get the impression that they were. I think it's mentioned at some point that it's been held at the Royal Albert Hall for a number of years.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yes, because I I don't know, I suppose I thought it was like Eurovision that maybe the winners hosted, or that, you know, it being Miss World, it might travel around.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I think it does now.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yes. But yeah, it seems to be that it it was always So we get a real kind of this is the girls enjoying London vibe from the opening.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yes, they're they're skipping.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Skipping, yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

They stop and look at Churchill, as I said, and then two of them are selected to release a dove.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yes, yes. I thought it was a pigeon at first. Because when I think London, I think pigeon, not dove.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yes, I think that's fair. I don't I've not really heard of a ceremonial release of the pigeon before though.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

What would it mean? Because the dove means peace.

SPEAKER_00 3:55

I think the pigeon would mean excrement. Hunger.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I don't neither of those are positive things.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Both quite bad. Do you know in some cultures pigeon and dove are the same thing? Are they? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

I think the name Paloma means dove or pigeon.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Anyway, I don't know why I know that, but then there's a rather spiffy animation.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yes, it goes animated and we get what I've described as pomp and circumstance music. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's frightfully British.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

It is very British at this stage, straight away. And the the this turns into us seeing the the set. The set. Because the set also has this kind of dove motif where the doves are there's like a collection of doves. Not real ones, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

It's not clock that.

SPEAKER_01 4:46

It is on the stage. It's like uh um I don't know what the word is, swarm uh swarm of doves. I'm sure there's a better word. It's not it's flock, flock of doves. I don't know, whatever. Um across the stage, which I think I think is rather nice. I was rather impressed.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

It's quite I think doves are quite a camp animal. Oh, do you think so? I do. Sort of the the pure white snow of a peaceful dove.

SPEAKER_01 5:13

Of a peaceful dove.

SPEAKER_00 5:14

Yes, being chupped in the air by two Miss World contestants.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

I have to say, in terms of camp, I think we actually start with the campist moment.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Well, I think this is possibly why I didn't notice the doves on the stage, because I was taken aback by a troupe of men dancing with tambourines.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

To a mashup of musical theatre songs, including Tonight from West Side Story and Pure Imagination from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yes. When you say mashup, it it's well mashed.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

It's about a line from each of them.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

Yes. Not like my mum's mash, where there's big old lumps.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

No, there's no there's no lumps of Westside Story.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

This is almost a puree. It's gone through a ricer. It's um yes, and these the men's dancing, would you have would you have a word for that?

SPEAKER_00 6:11

The word Well, I wrote two things.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

The first thing was energetic.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Mmm, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

The second thing was very homosexual.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yes. I now I don't like to go around labelling people. No. But these men have tambourines and they're smacking their asses with them. And they they are putting their all into it.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

In dinner jackets. Yes. Well, it's sort of a dinner jacket jumpsuit.

SPEAKER_01 6:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Again, the camp the campometer, as I referred to it last week.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

We we peak almost immediately. Because going into this, I didn't know what to expect really.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

N me neither. Um I certainly hadn't watched it all before. I recommended it.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

No. And obviously I knew it's a beauty pageant, so there's gonna be the girls are gonna do whatever their rounds are gonna be. But in terms of the entertainment surrounding that, I didn't know what to expect. When this came out, I was excited. I was like, this is a feast of campness. This is all that happens basically. Then it's just the girls for the rest of it.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I I mean I've got a lot of things to say about that.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Yeah. I was disappointed. I wrote down their name at the end. Uh they were credited, I think, as the Doogie Squires dancers. Let me just check. Let me just check. I don't want to um Doogie Squires dancers.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

The Doogie Squires dancers.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Never came back.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

No, they didn't come back. I think that's a shame.

SPEAKER_01 7:37

I think they were underutilised.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

Yes, and there's one part in particular that we'll get to where I think they really could have lifted things.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

I think I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I'm thinking you probably do as well. Next, we're introduced to our hosts for the evening.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Who are Peter Marshall, Judith Chalmers, as we mentioned, and Anthony Newley.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yes. Were you familiar with Peter Marshall?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

I wasn't familiar with Peter Marshall. Me neither, nothing to say about him. No, no.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

What about Anthony Newley?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

So I've heard of Anthony Newley.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

I actually, at points during watching this, had to go and do some extra research.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Because I knew him, I'll be honest, I knew him for one thing and one thing only.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

Can I guess it?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Is it being married to Joan Coles?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

It is being married to Joan Coles.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

Given the theme of the podcast, that's not it's not a big swing for me to guess at how you knew him. Yes. Yeah. But Anthony Eulie's one of those people who I would say was very famous at a certain time, but has retained none of that fame. I don't think anybody talks about him now. I like you had heard the name, and I was like, I know he does things with singing and maybe acting, but and I don't know, I feel like he's a sort of punchline, but I didn't, I did I didn't recognise him. He's got quite a strong brow.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yes, he has, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

We're watching quite a low res copy.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Oh we are and I there were points.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

He's just eyebrow.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

There were points because it was so low res that I my eyes got confused.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

We get to the swimsuit section. I thought a lot of them had underwear spilling out the side of their own.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

There's something going on. We should get to that.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

But the section with the hosts, I did I ri wrote down mercifully short Eurovision could learn from this. There's a very Eurovision vibe, I think.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

They've got no chemistry.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Oh no, no, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

No, and I like I I'll be honest, I was pleased to see a woman on the presenting team.

SPEAKER_01 9:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Until really the moment that she started speaking. And I realised she was not going to be bringing any forward-thinking feminism to the proceedings.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Well, I don't think I expected any.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

The line in particular was I'm glad to see you concentrating, Peter, despite all the distractions.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Yeah. It was at this point I realised, because this is 1980 now. So Miss World has been controversial for a while. There's been protests in the 70s against it. So it's it's not that it's like in its death throes quite yet, but it's certainly it's become this kind of cheesy parody. There's almost like um there's a line I think Anthony Newley has to say, it's like, I will travel anywhere to see 67 of the world's most beautiful women, and there's almost like a tiresome way that he says it, like you know, like he's been told really up the kind of Macizma. Make sure that make sure the audience know that you would definitely do wrong things to these women if you had the chance. There's like a there's like a you must, you must enforce the idea that you're a real man and that you want to get your hands on these women. Like make sure you put that up.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Make sure they know that we're just here to look at them.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, yeah, and it's like he's almost like tired. I'm sure it's probably true, uh, but I it's almost like tired as he says it, like, oh god, yeah, I guess I'll do the whole uh creep bit right right up the front. Every single like oh yeah. Don't don't forget that I would go backstage and have my way if I could. Don't forget that. It's like, oh god, you realise when they say like men are also damaged by patriarchies, like you realise like what what they have to like, you know, put up this kind of I don't think it is a front with him. I think Anthony Hewley's a bit of a womanizer. But Peter Marshall has to do it as well, and he almost sounds just a bit sad.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

As you say, mercifully short.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

Mercifully short, but I got a lot from it. I think this the tone's already set.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yes, the tone's already set. We then move on to meeting all 67 of the girls.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Yes, the first round.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

And they are wearing their national costume.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

Allegedly.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Allegedly. I have it written in front of me. Yeah. I don't believe. Is it all actual national costumes?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

No, some of them totally believable. Yes. Others just address. Is Britannia the national dress of the UK? Well, exactly. What is our national dress?

SPEAKER_00 12:11

I know.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

I think the Welsh have got one. I've convaguely pictured a Welsh national dress. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

And the Scottish as well, I think.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Yeah, they love something. Kilt. Tant, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I think. Don't please let me know if I'm wrong. No, please don't cancel me because I said kilts are Scottish.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Um It's yeah, this is the thing. She's Miss UK, isn't she? So she's supposed to be for the whole lot. And she is Welsh, so she could have worn a Welsh costume. But what she actually wears looks like something your mum would make for the school assembly.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yes, she's got a very cheap sword and shield.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Sword and shield. I mean She's not the only one.

SPEAKER_00 12:50

Miss Isle of Man has a sword.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

I was I was gonna say about Miss Isle of Man, because when she came out with a sword, I believed her. They so at this point they come they just come out and say, my name is whatever, and I'm and then their job?

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Yes, and uh they've all been forced to speak English.

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Yes, they're all speaking English.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Regardless of ability. Yeah. Which I felt very sorry for some of them because they were struggling. They yeah, they were struggling.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Do you and I know the answer to this, and this is why I'm asking you.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Do you have a favourite occupation?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Oh I do.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

I've got a couple of honourable mentions first, if I may. I know that we're gonna be thinking the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

We both know, we haven't discussed this, but we both know the favourite occupation. Because of course, we should say most of the occupations are very similar. Students, students, education, teachers, uh a couple of beauticians and lots of models. Yes. Which makes sense that they would be models because they're uh judged by their looks, and makes sense that they would be students because a lot of them are teenagers. Yes, they are. I haven't really mentioned that yet, but they are.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

So, yes, they're just saying their job, quite boring, a couple of standouts.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Honourable mention number one goes to I can't remember which country she is, who very gleefully announces that she's a tax collector.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Virgin Islands.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

To a cacophony of booing.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Yes. Yeah. The old jokes are the best.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

My second honourable mention goes to assistant in a bookies. Now I'd like to just say there's nothing wrong with being an assistant in a bookies. I I am not judging anyone that is an assistant in a bookies. It was just quite a jarring thing to hear after, and I'm studying English, and I'm a student, and I'm a model, I'm an assistant in a bookies. Third honourable mention woman police inspector.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Yes, I also had that as Miss Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yes, I it we and it just baffles me because so I growing up would occasionally watch the bill. Yes, and you would hear the rank WPC.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

And I didn't think anything of it when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

You accept what's normal of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

Yeah. And then suddenly, now you realise That's mad. They specifically gave a rank. If you were a woman, you had to be known as a woman.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

It's it is really, yeah. Uh again, I that stood out to me, a woman police inspector. Because they they elaborate on that later on and they're like, she's really an inspector. Like, yes, it I think it shows you actually, even though they are a specific type of woman, as we say, because they're part of this, there's a very narrow amount of jobs that like women uh typically do. There's obviously always like outliers, but the the typical jobs for women are so narrow at this point. And it's it in some ways it's a long time ago, and in other ways it's really not. Are we at the favourite now?

SPEAKER_00 15:55

We are at the favourite. Would you like to do the honours?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

No, no, please, please.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

My favourite job tropical fish, importer and exporter.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

I believe that's Miss Philippines. Now when you say there's a narrow or did you call it a narrow like range of jobs.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

A narrow range of jobs for women. Yes. I didn't think that meant they had to start making them up.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

That's uh when I say there's outliers, that's that's outlying the outliers. Tropical fish importer exporter, I think is great. I think it's a great job. It really stands out amongst all the 19-year-old models. You just imagine them around the back. Like, got any clown fish?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Um I I also just didn't realise there was such demand. Well, I for someone to have to be a full-time tropical.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

If people if people want to buy it, then somebody's importing exporting it.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

I guess so.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

It does, it's probably um all of the fish that she imported, exported, probably extinct now. It's probably a terrible job that's banned.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

But it yeah, it's really it uh it does stand out as like she's a bit of an entrepreneur. Yes, the the jobs are mostly very boring, but I just I love the idea of her being a real businesswoman. I mean, maybe that's why she's there. Because some of them, you know, are studying in English, so they're there to improve their skills. Maybe she's there to do some fish deals.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, she's gonna import some goldfish somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

I have a question for you now. Okay. Um speaking of national dress, as we say, there are some that I'm not very impressed with because they're just dresses.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

And I but I understand why, you know, Australia, she's just got a dress, you know. Anyway, did you have a favourite headpiece?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Yes, I did. Of course! My favourite headpiece was Brenda Miss Bahamas.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Oh, okay, yeah. Did you have a different one? I have I was a big I honestly, when I saw the Bahamas, I was like, nothing's beating that because it's about ten foot high.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

They'd all been quite boring before that. Yeah, yeah. And then suddenly Miss Bahamas came out. And it's and I was like, okay, I'm awake now.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

It's of such a size and presumably weight that she cannot move properly.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

No.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

It's massive.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

It's it's excess. We're getting camp.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

I was also a fan of Miss Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:30

Who had a headpiece that was just sort of three flowers, like chains of flowers coming into the middle. And the thing is with Miss Bahamas, I at least believed it as a national costume. Whereas Miss Costa Rica looked like something off of a Star Trek, one of the early series. When you go to a you go to an alien planet and they didn't quite have the budget to really absorb you in an alien world, so just some done something wild with the costuming.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

I think the thing was is there's I cannot emphasize enough. There's 67 of these.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

67, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And I think you almost I certainly got to a place of going, oh yeah, here's another one. And you s you sort of almost stop taking in what they're wearing.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yes. But then that's when some people jolt you back into it. Well, Miss Spain is dressed as Casper the Ghost. She's just entirely in a white sort of thing that comes right round her face and then covers her entire body.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

I'm gonna have to go and look at this.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

You have to go back to Miss Spain. Yeah. I yeah, after the UK coming out in her handmade, you know, uh Britannia costume, and the US she comes out as the Statue of Liberty. Yes. Miss Uruguay comes out like she's ready for a sort of Victorian riding lesson. There's some real differences in how they've approached this task.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Miss Uruguay also forgets what she does for a living.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Yes. I think they're struggling with the English and also probably nerves. It's quite a big stage. Yeah, and they are children.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

There I was alright, there were a lot of awkward pauses as they walked to the camera. There were awkward pauses. To the degree that sometimes the applause would die out and you could hear their footsteps. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

Can I tell you what else I thought was awkward?

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Now, during this whole section, there's music playing in the background. Yes. And it's music that I vaguely recognised. At some point it switches to the theme tune for Mash, which, if you're not familiar, is called Suicide is Painless. Which I felt undercut the event. And perhaps the tone that they were going for.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Truthfully, I don't know what tone they were going for.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Because some of these girls were laughed at.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yes. Yes, this is the other thing. Yeah. It's kind of horrible.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Like Yes, it's I don't want to say it's a modern day freak show, but I'm going to because they come out.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I'm laughing because it's so absurd.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

What I You've brought them there to be 67 of the world's most beautiful women. And then you just laugh at them. They come out.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Or boo them if they're It's dreadful.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Yeah. And we don't we don't get a lot from each of them, as we say, it's literally just their name and their job, and we know what country they're from now. And this is the only time you see all 67.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Oh no, okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:35

No, no, we go through all 67 again in a moment.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Oh no, you're right. We uh what also really stuck out to me, I think, compared to I wish people could have said could have seen your face as you delivered tactily. Eyes fully rolled to the top of your skull. No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

One thing that stuck out to me certainly compared to When you think of people who are on TV now, is that they clearly have no media training.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

They've sort of really I don't want to say they've got no idea what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

No.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

They're searching for their camera, they're you can see them sort of waiting for cues.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

It's it's very, yes, stilted compared to like what we expect now, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Yes. And then big capital letters. Oh god, then they all sing.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

They sing, I'd like to teach the world to sing.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

And some of them are enjoying it considerably more than others.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Some some of them we say they're singing, they're swaying in time with the others.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Yes, and moving their mouths.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

But the the the English uh of it all is obviously more of a problem for some than others.

SPEAKER_02 22:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Yeah. Some of them really, really enjoying that song, others less so. Uh uh including me. It's one of my least favourite songs anyway, because it's always used in that kind of cheesy way.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

And delivered by a crowd of unenthused women. There's something else I wanted to say, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

Obviously, we're watching this, and we should say we're aware that this world is problematic.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yes. Oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

As I'm watching it, I am sort of lulled into this stupor where it is a little bit boring and repetitive, and I start going to myself, maybe I should decide which ones I think are gonna make it. And then I'm like, no, I think that I think I'm in enemy territory now. Like I shouldn't be deciding which one of these women is the fittest. And again, when I say women, I mean 17 to 19 year olds in the main.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Yeah. And I I think one of them was described as quite old and she was 21.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Yes, I think I think there's one that's 22 and she got laughed at for being 22.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

So yeah, I I but I just watching it kind of There's something about and I think it's because possibly we're watching a historical one.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

And so you've kind of got that soft focus.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

And they're all grown-ups now.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

It's from a different time. Yes, and I don't think it's things being from a different time is ever an excuse.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

But you certainly can watch it without that feeling necessarily that it's something that's having an impact now.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

There is one part where I felt dirty watching it, and we'll come to that later.

SPEAKER_00 24:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

But yeah, it's it's it definitely I felt strange. I was like, what am I doing here? I shouldn't be here.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

We move on to the pre-pageant and preliminary activities section.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Ah, it's this bit.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

In which we see footage of the girls doing a talent competition that has no bearing on the contest in Stringfellows.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yes, Stringfellows uh discotheque, as it must have been called at the time.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Which that immediately gave me an uneasy feeling.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yes, if anybody doesn't know Stringfellows its reputation is as a lap dancing club.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yeah, and when I was young, Peter Stringfellow was like more of a personality. Yes. He died at some point, and so we got rid of him. So they send them there to do these talents, which actually some of them are quite beautiful. Yes. Singapore is doing uh Chinese ribbon dance and somebody else plays the piano really well. And then the the the commentator or narrator, whatever, over the top of this just makes a series of racist jokes.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Um was it was iffy, wasn't it? Well, yeah, they're sort of like just laughing, you know, because things are culturally different, you know, like one of the dances on our knees and well, yes, the traditional East African knee dance from Miss Lesotho. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

I I did write that they were particularly disparaging about that.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

Yeah. There was no attempt to do any kind of information, like actual information. No. Or facts about the country or what we were actually seeing. You know, he refers to the whoever plays the piano, they play this lovely, like, classical piece of music. And then he says it's like, oh, that's the Wherever She's From version of Knees Up Mother Brown or something.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Jailhouse Rock.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Jailhouse Rock, okay. Yes. Just for the sake of it. Yeah. It doesn't remind you of Jailhouse Rock. It's just for the sake of being like rude about them.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

It's sort of like what Harry Hill used to do on You Been Framed, but racist.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

Yeah. It's not a great section.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

No. And then we move on to a charity dinner.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

In which this is where we get our first Judith Chalmers narration. I don't think I'd ever realised before how plummy her accent was.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

I was gonna say the same thing because I don't remember her being quite so bad on Wish You Were Here, but I think she's what my mum would refer to as Jolly Hockey Sticks here.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

She says, because what we're at is a kind of banquet for deprived children.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

Which there's no GDPR then they just show all the faces of the deprived children.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Yeah, well I suppose they probably had to sign a release, didn't they?

SPEAKER_01 27:12

Maybe. But she says, Oh, and there's as much lemonade, crisps, and cakes as their tummies can handle.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

She also says that at this banquet there are all the ingredients of an international party.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 27:26

Jelly cake and crisps.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

Jelly cake and crisps.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

That's that's specifically what she said. Are the ingredients of an international party.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

There's a particular reputation that Britain has for food. And Judith Chalmers is part of it with that statement.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

My main takeaway from this was who is enjoying this?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Because the girls weren't.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

No.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

And I don't I think the children were making the best of it. I don't think it was their preferred afternoon out.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I don't I don't honestly think those children care about Miss World contestants. They probably don't mind the jelly cake and crisps. No. But what do they what do they have to chat about with you know when you go to a party and like somebody puts you with your like cousin who's loads older. Yeah. Even though just because you're children, even though you're totally different ages and you have nothing to talk about. It's sort of that vibe. Because the kids are like 10 and the contestants are 17. So there's just no common ground.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

And also there are language barriers.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Oh yes. Well that would also put the girls off talking. The fact that they can't understand a bloody word of anything that's going on. They clearly don't have translators or any like I don't think they've got any chaperones, anything. W I might get into that with the next part. Yes, I didn't I didn't particularly enjoy this section.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Then they all go and see Swan Lake. We're not allowed in the theatre, we just get a series of photos and audience noise.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

It was an interesting way of doing it.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

So the the the deprived children, it's fine to film them as much as possible.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

But the the Royal Opera House said no, so we just get some still photos. Yes. Too down market for the Royal Opera House.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yes. The Royal Opera House, however, did allow them to display their evening wear on a couple of their staircases, which is what we move into next.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

This section for me is characterised by women slowly descending stairs. Wearing generally quite dull dresses.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

It's at this point I'd like to say to you, who is this for? Because I've been sold this narrative that Miss World is this big purvo thing for men to look at, young attractive women. I put it to you that the sort of men who like to pervo for young women care very little if a dress is made out of crepe de sheen. Which is what this session is about.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Judith Chalmers starts getting a little bit disparaging. Especially after Miss Australia.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

She's quite early, because of course it's alphabetical.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

She says of her dress, apparently a popular style over there. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

She doesn't like that one because it's the old um hammock for the tits style. You know, the double hammock.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

I do enjoy that her use of the word mauve. I think that needs to come back. We don't talk about mauve things.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

We don't say mauve enough. No, I agree. Agreed.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

And then, as it continued, I just wrote, All I hear is Chalmers word soup.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

I I I understand what you're saying. There were a couple of highlights, I hope.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I have written a couple down, yes. I wonder if these are the same. One of them, I would bet my life is. She's sort of it's in this part that I realise that Judith Charmers is there for the paycheck.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Because she could not sound less interested.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

She's not interested and she doesn't care about the women.

SPEAKER_00 31:00

No. Her grandfather was president of Chile in the forties.

unknown 31:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

That one's great.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

There's um a bit where she says about Miss Beltram, she's just here to enjoy herself. Which I thought was a bit a bit disparaging of her chances.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Yeah, I also got a most unusual shade of green. Yes. You don't say that positively, do you?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

She didn't like that one. Also, uh Denmark, they don't go in for thrills.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

And then we had the classic She Wants to Enter an International Trap Race with her pony and cart.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Yes. We're getting a little more background on the girls.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

A little more, but we are hearing all of their jobs again.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Yes. This is the thing, some of them you just basically hear the same fact, but expanding. You know, like I say, the Hong Kong police inspector, oh, she is an inspector, you know, in the police and a woman. Um whereas, yeah, throwing in, and then yes, a lot about their dresses. Oh, she designed her dress herself. I can tell. But yes, the one about the the the her grandfather knew so and so that ran the country, like, okay, well, we know why she's here then. No, it isn't. Um, yes, it's a very odd segment.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

It is a camp segment, but I think a lot of the camp comes from the setting of the Royal Opera House.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

I was just about to talk to you about camp because I was gonna say, is this camp or is this just naff? Because some of the things we've done before have kind of a naffness about them.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

But they are camp. And I I agree it feels camp because we're in the Royal Opera House and we're in evening dresses, so there's a lot of grandeur and going on and spectacle, and there is something really naf about them having to walk upstairs to order and walk downstairs to order some of them walk upstairs, just to put that out there.

SPEAKER_00 32:56

I think there's an incongruity to it. Yes, yeah, because of what we're seeing and what we're hearing.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

A modern day equivalent for me would be if we were watching a fashion show at Paris Fashion Week, yeah. Narrated by the guy that narrates Come Dine With Me. It's it is opulence and spectacle with someone sort of taking the mick.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

That's it. There's there's a slight tone to what she's saying that is taking the piss. And I wonder if this is something quite British that we do where we like just thinking about the World Cup which has been on, and like the Americans want to sell you that this is the biggest best event that you've ever seen, and so they have the singers come out at the beginning of you know with their sports, and you know, there's that thing of like we know how to improve there, we used to be an advert, I think. We used to we know how to improve soccer. It's like you know, they send on 15 balls for like a speed round or whatever. It's like we do more of everything because we're the best, and this is sort of like we don't can't do any more than this because we haven't got the budget. Um, this is what we're doing, we know it's so there's there's definitely there's NAF and kitsch, I think, at play. Yes, camps in there somewhere, the campometer is it's dwindling down and it's feeling a bit sad.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

It's I think there's also a campness in the kind of sense that these contestants that we're supposed to be rooting for and wondering who's gonna win are almost slightly disorientated.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

Yes, and 67 bamboozled women compete to be Miss World.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Yeah, it's weird. Put on these this huge giant stage with doves in a room full of British people laughing at them.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

I'm gonna I'm gonna bring you back to who is this for because I think this is the thing. It's like judging women based on looks sounds like it's for straight men. But this part, looking at evening dresses, feels like it appeals to Well, it to be honest, I like looking at evening dresses.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:15

I'm interested in what fabric it is. This and I spoke to my mum, uh, you know, because she would have been like younger and around, you know, um I said, Would you have watched this? And she thought by 1980 she m probably wouldn't, but like when she was younger, she watched it with her mum. Um so the two of them would have been looking at these dresses and enjoying the spectacle. And I think there's the like there's a kind of clash of things of you know, it's run by we haven't talked about the the organisers much yet, but he'll come into it. But the the Morleys who like organise it, run by this kind of creepy guy, and I think behind the scenes there's uh using these women, you know, because but there's various stories about the way the the winner is ultimately used for them and whatever, but there's a like a using of women to you know further their aims and and like uh whatever seedy ways he was doing it, but then the actual presentation is like wrong. It's like this is that this is the this is for somebody else, like the Razumatazz of evening dresses and the Royal Opera House.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

It's like it's just come to me now, but do you think maybe that is about trying to modernise it a bit and trying to say, well, it's not just for pervy old men?

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Possibly. I don't want to have to do enough research to go back, but there was always like an evening wear around, but I think I think it genuinely is just Do you know it's something that people don't I I don't want to go on on a huge feminist brand now, but I think gender we've talked about as being part of camp. And gender is obviously a construct, right? And it's so we assign certain things to like feminine and masculine in a way that doesn't always like ring true. So because this is an event about women, these things like bleed into it, the having, you know, evening dresses and talking about talking about fashion and whatever the these things that would interest maybe queer and female people are in there in this sleazy competition almost by accident and it's like a clash of those things. Do you know what I mean? So it's like how do you you could make a competition that purely was for men, right? And you would have just naked women? I don't know. Oh, oh dear, oh I've got to make the most problematic event now, but like you know, women in bikinis sat on monster trucks or something. Like if we do a real bad stereotype, yeah. Drinking beer and whatever, but they haven't done that. They've done it like this is you know what women do, they like dresses, so let's put them in dresses and talk about the dresses. And so it kind of clashes with like what the kind of you know, do you know what I mean? There's like yeah, I think this is where some of the campness comes in, is like it not really knowing how to how to do what it wants to do.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Or well, I think it knows how to do what it wants to do, but it can't be seen to do that.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

It sort of has to Yeah, it has to keep up a front. And as we know, right, camp kind of smuggles things. You know, we've talked about we talked about like with Kenneth Williams, you said like Camp being the the acceptable face of homosexuality, so they couldn't have an entertainer come out and be gay and proud of it, but you could have a gay man being camp and laugh at him without acknowledging sexuality. This is like it's perfectly obvious that there's like a perving element to it, but it's like we can smuggle it in with a bit of rasamataz, and so it's it's camp in a way that's not as proud and and and like the way that we've enjoyed it in you know in other things where it feels like it's giving women some power and whatever, but it's it it's it's it's smuggling something else, something seedier and darker.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

And I guess putting it in the Royal Opera House is almost a way of going, look, we're legitimate, we're in this you know, we're in this big, prestigious place. They've let us in, so we must be alright.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, yeah, we're proper.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah. Well, so we've had the evening gowns and now we're going to take them off. We're moving into the swimsuit section.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

Well, we've got to meet the Well yes. What what are we doing first? What are we doing first? Meeting the judges.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

So before we get to swimsuits, we meet the judges who have scored them and now whittled them down to 15 girls. They've gone from 67 to 15.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Alright, let's can we talk about the judges?

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Let's please, yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Because it says they've got nine very special judges.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

The first one I thought was asleep, but he does he does seem to perk up just at the end, just in time.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

He's the president of some talent agency or something. I don't recognise all of them, but let's talk about the ones we do recognise.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

Yes, uh, we get to Bruce Forsythe.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Bruce Bruce Forsythe, Brucey, is on the on the panel. He seems thrilled to be there.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

Oh, he is thrilled to be there.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:15

Did you clock who else was on the panel?

SPEAKER_01 40:18

I did, because I already knew that Bruce Forsyth had ended up married to a former Miss World.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

And she's on the panel as well.

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Will Nalia.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

And they married three years after this.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

Right, so they're not married at this stage, well which I thought they would have mentioned if they were.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Maybe this is when they got together.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

It may it may well be. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So they're both on the panel. Also, Dennis Waterman.

SPEAKER_00 40:44

No, no, no, no. Oh, sorry. Use his full title Lady Killer Dennis Waterman.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Oh yes, they do say that. I don't want to go off on one about the phrase lady killer.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

I mean but um it's yeah It's a problematic phrase, but even if I was gonna use it, I'm not sure I'd I'm not sure I'd sure Dennis Waterman. No, I'm not sure I'd give it to Dennis Waterman.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Interesting. No, I find him is he still alive? I'm not sure actually, any. I find him sort of repellent, he won't listen to this. Um and I have watched quite a lot of the Sweeney and Minder and um for reasons we won't go into. And yeah, I don't like him. Okay. He's uh he yes, he doesn't give me lady killer, not in the sense that that phrase is used here.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I was in some respects when I saw Bruce Forsyth, I wasn't shocked.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

When I saw Dennis Waterman, I was more shocked.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

Right. But the most shocking?

SPEAKER_00 41:48

The most shocking thing for me was that there were three women on the panel.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

Yes, there are, yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Three out of the nine are women. I it's not enough.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

No, but no no.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

But I was it I was expecting at the beginning for it to be an all-male affair.

SPEAKER_01 42:02

There's there's one in particular.

SPEAKER_00 42:05

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

So the first one that we meet, so it's a uh obviously the one that marr marries Bruce Forsyth, what's her name? Willow uh Willnalia. Willnalia. So she's introduced uh quite late on. There's also another one who's um obviously in the beauty pageant world. Yes. And then there's a third one who's the wife of the Swaziland Commissioner. Unclear to me if she knows what she signed up to. She sat there, it's clear she's from a different world. She's from the world of politics, not beauty pageants.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

But again, do you think this is a way of trying to legitimise it a bit?

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Uh a hundred percent do. I a hundred percent do. She just does seem to really stick out amongst this panel of yes, beauty pageant ladies and pervy old men. Because we also have like the VP of Max Factor, so there's there's a you know, a couple of suits, as it were. Is it yes, it's an odd panel.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

It's an odd panel.

SPEAKER_01 43:02

In some ways it's exactly what I would expect.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Then we move on to what I think is quite a dull auction.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

I I have to tell you, this is the bit that made me feel dirty all over.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

I'm I'm not surprised.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Because the they've asked the right. So this is what the Mawleys who run it have done. They've asked the girls to bring uh sort of cultural items from wherever they're from. Yes. Presumably if the country they're representing didn't provide those at their own expense. So they can be auctioned off for charity. Yes. And what we get are lots of shots of these poor women in their national dress. In then they've been told to go in their national dress, which means very large headdresses for some of these women sat individually at tables surrounded by old rich men.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:51

Which is, I think if anyone knows anything about the world now, is such a clear visual of what they intended for these women. It really gave Gave me the creeps. It really did. And also the fact that all of this was dressed up as like this is the charity bit again gave me the creeps of of how charity is sort of weaponised to cover for the fact that those men wanted to hang out with those very young women. Again, we didn't go through the ages, but I would say all the vast majority are teenagers.

SPEAKER_02 44:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

And it really, yeah, I I just literally looked at the screen and I was like, no, this wasn't good.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

We we then get a weird aside about some sick children.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

Yes. They go into some particular story of a a couple of sick children that they helped.

SPEAKER_00 44:42

And I weaponized. It just it just didn't belong in there.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

It's not comic relief.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

No.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

You're trying to throw that in there. Again, like you're saying, legitimising with Royal Opera House, you're legitimising with this in a different way. Like covering all kinds of stuff up. It's mmm.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

And then outrots Dame Vera Lynn. Vera Lynn pops up.

unknown 45:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Which I could never have predicted.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

No, I would say surprise appearance of Vera Lynn is one of those, like there should be a sort of 70s camp bingo card. And surprise appearance of Vera Lynn, it's i you know it is a uh wild card, but it's in there.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

I don't think it's the only time we're gonna encounter it.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

I I'm sure you're right. Yeah. We'll keep a check, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

So then we get into the swimsuits.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Oh, the swimsuits. I knew it was coming, obviously, I knew it was coming.

SPEAKER_00 45:34

Fifteen of them, again, I've written this is our third iteration of women walking.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Yes, if you've been sold on the idea from like Miss Congeniality or some other, you know, beauty pageant things that you've seen that they do a lot of choreography and coordinated things. That's not true in 1980 Miss World. They literally, they walk, they maybe hit their mark.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Yeah, and all we get, we get their jobs again.

unknown 46:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

And we get a description of things we can see. We get their jobs, their hair colour, their eye colour, and their height. Now I will grant you I can't I can't look at someone and tell you their height on site. But I can tell if I can tell what ballpark we're in.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Yes. Uh especially those that make it through to the next part with the interviews who are put up next to Chalmers. Because some of these ladies are 5'10, and choose Chalmers. He's struggling to get the mic up there. Anyway, that's I'm skipping ahead. Yes, this is the the swimsuit section, and I would say the words are potentially like nobody's listening, because they're looking at women in swimsuits. There are a couple of things. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 46:58

Um I do you know what? I actually I have very little notes for this because I was bored? I mean, when you say who is this for, this bit, not for me.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

I just want to point out a couple of things that I heard about them if you don't.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

A couple of my favourite facts. Miss Bermuda would like to meet Brezhnev. She also does a great Sunday roast, although she doesn't make Yorkshire's.

SPEAKER_00 47:29

I have that I have that written down in evening gowns, maybe I got.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Are we going back to evening gowns? No, we then get evening gowns again, don't we? Maybe I've I might have condensed my notes. I might not have any swimsuit notes, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

No, it's fine. Do you know what? Let's just skip ahead, because swimsuits, it's just quite problematic, and some of them are 17.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

They are, to be fair, to be fair, they are in swimming costumes, not bikinis.

SPEAKER_00 47:55

Yes, actually.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

I don't know why I don't know why I'm shilling for Miss World 1980 and making that distinction. I'm I guess I'm saying it could be worse.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

Yeah, I think that is what you're trying to say, because I know exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 48:09

Yeah. I didn't feel ill at this point. I felt unsettled, but I was holding it together.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

So we move on to seeing the top 15 in their evening gowns again.

SPEAKER_01 48:22

Yes, so we've already seen evening gowns. Yes. And they're the same gowns.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

And then I have in capital letters.

SPEAKER_01 48:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Oh God, stop telling me they're jobs.

SPEAKER_01 48:31

They do mention this. Is the thing, for some of them, that's all you get.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

That you really only get that, and I it may be because if you're 17 and and you want to become an actress, that might be all there is to say about you. But um, yes, as I say, Miss Babud would like to meet Brezhnev.

SPEAKER_00 48:48

Um she doesn't like Yorkshire puddings with her roasts.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Miss New Zealand, her father's a Maori and her mother's Welsh.

unknown 48:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

There was quite a few of them who did they meet? I don't know. What do they talk about?

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Um I I enjoyed a green fingered lady. Plants grow very well, and why shouldn't they?

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Why shouldn't they? I think my favourite was Miss Austria, because her I think granddad put streetlights in to her town when he was the mayor.

unknown 49:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

That was the fact about her.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Yes. I had just written more chalmers nonsense because yeah, yeah, yeah. And I also wrote, are these dresses boring or have I been spoiled by drag race?

SPEAKER_01 49:32

Right. Firstly, you have been spoiled by drag race because they certainly aren't as interesting as those.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

However, the images we're seeing are so low res.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

This is yeah, this is true.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

That at some point I realised somebody's dress was like fully beaded, and I hadn't been able to tell that for the three previous times that I'd seen it. So there's definitely there's an element of we're not really seeing them in their full glory. But yeah, I I think that's when I was making the point about like who does it this appeal to, I'd quite happily watch pretty dresses, just people walking in pretty dresses on something like Drag Race or Project Runway or you know, some catwalk or whatever, because there's some sort of like artistry there that's being celebrated.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Oh yeah, completely. Whereas this is not You just sort of because it's low res, you're getting blocks of colour.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

We're just seeing blocks of colour, but also them sort of saying, you know, this one is crepe de sheen, this one is I think she says one is Macrame. Um, like it's not really it it's sort of a cover for the fact that we're staring at these women and trying to judge which is the fittest 17-year-old. It's sort of like trying to distract you from that. I think this is what we're saying is that the camp is being employed for nefarious purposes.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

So we see the top 15 in their evening gowns again.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 50:56

Our next section begins with them saying we're going down to the top seven now.

SPEAKER_01 51:00

Right. Which I assume you breathe a sigh of relief.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yes. Then they bring out the previous Miss World. Oh, yes. Who was Miss Bermuda.

SPEAKER_01 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

And she starts telling us about all the amazing things that happened to her.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Well, Charmers asks, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

Yes. But her headline is that they issued a set of postal stamps in my honour.

SPEAKER_01 51:27

Yes, she also, when the Chalmers asks specifically what she's been getting up to, she says opening stores and travelling the world. Yeah. Travelling the world comes second, so I think when she travels the world, she does open a lot of stores.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

She does. She cuts a lot of ribbons. And then, and again, I'm back on Judith Chalmers the anti-feminist.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

Shouldn't there be a Mr. World?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

No.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

No, leave me alone.

SPEAKER_00 51:55

No, there shouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Because of course they can't be married when they compete. That was a rule. Was it? Yes. It was a rule up until the last ten years, I think.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

I did not know this.

SPEAKER_01 52:08

Yeah. This I well, I don't know, last ten years, I'm making that up. I I heard about it for some reason you couldn't have had kids and you couldn't be married. It was not allowed. And so, yeah, the idea that she would immediately get married after she got the title is sort of odd. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

We move on to the interview stage. Judith is back. Peter Marshall keeps calling her Judy, and I can't get on board with it.

SPEAKER_01 52:35

No.

SPEAKER_00 52:35

She's Judith.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Judith Chalmers. Judith. Give her some respect.

SPEAKER_00 52:39

Yes. She says she will interview them. My pleasure, language permitting.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

Yes. She knows it's going to be a struggle.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

And then proceeds to talk down to seven women.

SPEAKER_01 52:51

Talk down to seven women who tower over her.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Yes. Miss Guam is asked to describe her hometown and then is asked how she got Ava Gabor to design her dress.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

Yes, and her her answer genuinely made me laugh out loud. She said, Well, she designed it and I bought it. I don't know her or anything.

SPEAKER_02 53:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:14

Yeah. Her mother's from Belfast, which Judith Chalmers tries to make a joke about accents being different and she doesn't get it. She thinks she's talking about her accent. That's an awkward Yes. That's an awkward section from someone who actually speaks English.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yes. And then we move on to another awkward Judith Chalmers moment.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Where uh Miss United States says that she's from Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:38

And Judith Chalmers says, Oh, I thought you pronounced it Hawaii in quite a disparaging way.

SPEAKER_01 53:44

It's not the only time she mocks their pronunciation.

SPEAKER_00 53:47

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

She usually does it in a more you're getting English wrong way. Yes. But for this one, she's particularly uh cutting.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Cutting and wrong.

SPEAKER_01 53:57

And wrong, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Because it's someone from Hawaii. But but this is a person from Hawaii. Telling you how to pronounce Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Yeah, yeah. She's not having it.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

And then we pivot to tell me about the lumber business your mother ran.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

I was gonna say to you, I think, tell me about your mother's lumber business. It's one of my favourite things that happens. Yeah, it's again in the Jolly Hockey Sticks, she says to Miss New Zealand, said Dickens of a long way to come. I mean, Judith, it's Miss World. Of course, it's a long way to come.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

Some of them are going to travel. I mean, Hawaii to the UK isn't a barrel of laughs.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

No. Miss New Zealand also has a mother from Wales. There's something going on. I have to say, it is clear that there is a UK bias.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Oh god, yes. Every time Miss United Kingdom comes out.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Well, she she makes it into this top seven, and I have to say, if we weren't running this whole thing, and I don't want to say anything rude about anyone, I'm not sure that she would have been there. And also these countries, you know, Miss Guam and whatever, the the countries that we've choked the Virgin Islands, it there's 67 countries, and it's quite clear that they're all sort of like they're European or their ex-British kind of territories. There's quite a big bias towards the Empire. Like it's quite it's quite odd. It's really odd.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

I want to talk about Miss Israel. The line of questioning for Miss Israel feels particularly unpleasant.

SPEAKER_01 55:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

She starts off by asking about her army training, which fair enough, that's sort of what she has said in her bit that she wants to do. Her response to that is she does a year of general training and then she does two years of feminine work.

SPEAKER_01 55:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Which I struggled with.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Well, Judith wants more information on this feminine work, but it isn't really forthcoming.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

No, it it's oh I mean, it's to do with patriarchal ideas of teaching and motherhood and you know it's training for i it's like joining the army to learn how to become a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 56:08

That's Yes It's it's it's odd.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

And then this just stuck out like a sore thumb for me. What kind of men do you like?

SPEAKER_01 56:19

Was this to Miss Israel?

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Yeah. Because there have been sort of, like I said, there was a shouldn't there be a Mr. World comment, but this feels very objectifying.

SPEAKER_01 56:30

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

It's she sort of dismisses her national service and what she's gonna train and makes it like, well, what type of man are you gonna marry?

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Yeah. Just to be clear, with the the national service, I believe they have to go and do it. And yeah, we're in 1980, so we're sort of looking at someone who is gonna go and do that, and that's the information that they have on there, so that's what they're talking about. But yeah, it's clear that um Judith she tries to get information about what that will involve. We don't know, it's feminine work. And then she wants to sort of talk about Yeah, men. Like that's the that's that's the reason you would be going and doing it.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Yeah, and she hasn't done that with any of the other women if she had asked every single one of them what sort of man do you like, it wouldn't have been okay.

SPEAKER_01 57:22

No, it would have been terrible.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

It wouldn't it wouldn't have been okay, but you would have at least been able to go, okay, this is a thing that they asked in 1980. The fact that she only asks one of them.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

It's like, are you going in the army to go around Shaggin?

SPEAKER_00 57:37

And it's you know, it's the one that I think has the least English, the one that is having the most difficulty with communication.

SPEAKER_01 57:46

I don't know if that's down to her English, Nick.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Fair.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

She I don't think she I don't think her English is strong, but I I somewhat suspect that she knows the answers because there's this there's this kind of um uh stereotype that when you ask um Miss World contestants what they hope for, they all say world peace. So I think she knows that she can't tell the truth about what the army involves. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Yeah, yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01 58:14

She really can't. I and so that is a it is a really awkward segment, and I did feel like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 58:22

We get Miss France, who again I'm not taking the Mickey out of anybody's level of English, but she says that she'd like to become an interpreter straight after asking what the word future means.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

That's just comedy. It's not making fun of her, she's I think the youngest contestant because she won when she was 16, won Miss France. Um, and it's not making fun of her saying that that's just comedy when you can't understand the question you want to become an interpreter. She's actually my favourite contestant.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

She's got quite a little bouncy walk down the stairs, hasn't she?

SPEAKER_01 58:55

She has, she's she's very young, but she's actually quite sure of herself.

SPEAKER_00 58:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:00

And she likes this kind of like old vintage-y look, and so she's got a dress that's completely covered up, she's got her hair in quite a vintage look. And I think it's quite cool that she has her own style within this very narrow frame of what a woman is supposed to look like. Um so I I sort of warmed to her, I thought she was quite cool. Um, and I did wonder what all of these ended up doing. I mean, uh not all of them, but um, I wondered what she ended up doing.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

And then Miss Germany is asked if she'd like to act in front of the camera. Judith says, Don't you think you're pretty enough?

SPEAKER_01 59:34

Well, because she wants to be a wardrobe supervisor, and Judith Chalbert says, But you're beautiful enough to be in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_00 59:40

To which Miss Germany says, I don't think that matters, they need all types, which makes me feel a lot better about my career choices.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

I was gonna say she says it right in Judith Chalber's face. Oh Judith, they'll take anyone.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:55

Now Miss Germany, or Miss West Germany, as we don't say, she gets huge cheers every time. Which I thought was unusual.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

So I think it's because she is styled after Farah Fawcett.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

She yeah, she does look very trendy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

She has a a very current look.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

She I think they say she's the tallest contestant at 5'11.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:22

So she's sort of got legs for days, and I don't really want to get into this.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

But I will.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

From what I can tell from this low res transfer, I would say she is what society deems to be conventionally attractive.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:43

Oh, do you know what? It's Miss World, I think you're a little out to say that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:48

I I but you but you know what I'm saying though, it's not like I think that should be the case. No, no, no. But it is there's something about her that I think connects with a lot of different people.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

She's the right look.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:59

Yeah. If you think of a beautiful woman, that's uh especially 1980, that's exactly the person you would think of. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:06

Then I have written in capital letters the end, because we're on to our final segment.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:12

Well, they they thank Judith Chalmers for showing that language need be no barrier after that segment, which it was.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

Yes, it was quite a large barrier. We now go into they let Anthony Newley perform.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:26

Right. They whilst they decide who's going to win, and we get on to the judging and how that works, but they let Anthony Newley have a have you know, like the the interval entertainment or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

I'd never heard Anthony Newley sing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:42

I did I thought I might have done and just forgotten, but it turns out I can't have done because I would have remembered.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

He introduces himself and at this point introduces himself as a songwriter.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:55

Which I didn't it it never crossed my mind before.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

He then goes into his number and I wrote that he starts scatting like a gravelly crazy frog.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

He says the music starts just under under him, the end of him speaking, he says, and this is dedicated to all these beautiful girls. And I was like, the Anthony Newley robot has malfunctioned, but it turned out to be the beginning of him singing. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:32

I then wrote, What is this song? Mm-hmm. Then Drunk Uncle Karaoke. Yes. And then quite significantly, Why did Joan Collins marry this man?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Well, because he he he says he's gonna do like a um a medley of songs that he's written.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:52

And you can imagine like Bert Bacharak does that sometimes. He's been a a songwriter on so many people's different songs, and he he sings them sometimes. This man sings some songs that I've never heard of.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:05

Mo most of them I've never heard of.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:07

Then he brings out a bit of Goldfinger.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

To which I wrote, please don't sing Goldfinger.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Well, Goldfinger is the music is written by John Barry and the lyrics were written by Leslie Bricus.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:22

With a bit of Anthony Dooley. And the way he sings it tells me he did not write it. Because it's the worst rendition.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:33

Goldfinger!

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

I I I have to say, just for just for a second, because bomb themes are one of my favourite things in the whole world.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:44

Goldfinger contains some of my favourite rhymes ever. Goldfinger, such a goldfinger, is a great all-time rhyme.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

Okay. I'll go on this train with you.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

And the the Midas Touch, rhyming with Spiders Touch, when spiders have nothing to do with gold, also a great all-time rhyme. I'm a huge fan of Goldfinger. The way he sings it just makes me certain that he doesn't that he didn't contribute much to the writing of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:18

It was at this point that I looked him up and I was like, oh, he's a songwriter. Like what else?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:25

What else?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:25

And then I this man, this man wrote Pure Imagination.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Yes. Again, did he write that with anyone else?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Bricus.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:35

Yeah. I think Bricas is doing the heavy lifting. I don't know Brickus, but I think he's doing the heavy lifting here.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

He then starts, and this was quite camp. Oh. Skipping around with a little basket, throwing sweets at Bruce Forsyth in the press.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

Yes, singing Candyman.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:51

The Candyman can.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:53

Good day, sunrise.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

I just He starts by sort of playfully toying with Brucey, throwing the sweets at him, and by the end, he is just yeeting sweets handfuls of them at the point.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:09

I've never got on with the press. I feel like there were some real injuries, probably.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

I honestly, this bit really brought me alive again. The campometer had been dwindling down.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:21

But this is the moment I feel like we needed the Doogie Squires dancers back. Yes. Because it went on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:30

It's too much, Anthony Newley. I think the world has voted too much Anthony Newley. Yes, we did need the Doogie Squires dancers.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah, I just feel like it was a long time for him to just be on the stage by himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:43

He didn't feel that way.

unknown 1:05:44

No.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

He thought he was killing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

Yes. That thankfully is over.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

That was that's over. So now all that remains is to find out the winners.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Charmers has upgraded to a giant white fur coat.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:57

Yes. Yes, she has.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:00

It's not real.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:01

No, I don't know what you could kill that would come out that colour.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Polar bear.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

I'm pretty sure that Chalmers isn't wearing a polar bear.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Um Arctic Fox.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:11

There's a lot of Arctic foxes. I mean, there wouldn't have been many left after.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:16

The way they decide to announce these results, there are seven of them left. And they decide to announce them in reverse order.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:24

From five to one. Meaning. The two of them don't count. Well, A, two of them don't count. And when you get to the final three, you're either the best or the worst.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

You've either won it or there was no point you'd be either.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:41

And you allow these losers. No. I don't think they're losers. What I mean is you allow place six and seven to think that they may be coming first.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

Yes. It's a particularly cruel system.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:59

Yes, it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

Although I have to say, if I was standing there with Miss West Germany, I think I would know.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

But I think I would know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

But then again, I wouldn't be standing there in sixth place. I wouldn't be allowed in the building. I'd be outside with the protesters burning my bra.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Yeah, fair. Morley, Mr. Morley comes out.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:19

Yeah, creepy Morley.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:20

Oh yeah, we're gonna announce the winners now. Which sounds like my Anthony Newley.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

I was gonna say there's a reason you and Anthony Newley are friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

There is no sense of build-up or longing it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:30

No. Davina McCall hasn't been invented yet.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

No, we're not at the place where we're going, and the results are No. It's literally in fifth place. Whoever it was.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

UK.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:42

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:43

She got fifth. She got fifth. Again, I'm not certain that if we weren't hosting the entire thing and the entire, like, you know, whole system of it wasn't British, that she would have made it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:55

But no sooner is she out with her little tiara, we're on to fourth.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:59

Yes, I was gonna say they have a gentleman on tiara duty.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:04

Would you like that job? Sort of angrily thrusting a tiara on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Very aggressive with it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:09

Very aggressively thrusting a tiara on the head and pushing them out, pushing them out the door.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:13

I don't know that I want that job. I do think I would be good at it.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:16

I was gonna say, I honestly, I watched it and I was like, Nick would do that job.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:20

Right, Kim, come here. Tiara, go.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Get out there, get out.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

So we we've got we've gone from five to two.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:31

Would you like me to recap?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:32

Please do.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

So in the fifth we have UK, fourth Israel, third, France. I was happy to see her in third. Uh, second, Guam. Good showing for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:41

Which means Which means that the winner is not not New Zealand, not United States.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:50

It's Miss Germany.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Yes. And then, as I say, they've been cheering her a lot every time. It's like they knew.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:58

Anyway.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:59

She gets brought out on stage and sat on a throne.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

Then Camp Ormantila, ding ding, ding. Then a random man dressed as a royal servant appears and disappears in a flash. Yes. We've never seen him before, we'll never see him again.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:15

No, and there's not like a whole royal court, it's just that one blow.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

Just that one man with a sceptre.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

Yep. Hands it to her and he's gone.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:22

And then the credits could not roll fast enough.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:25

This is the thing. I was gonna say, like, you expect m something. Yeah. Maybe some maybe not her to make a speech, so they don't really believe in women speaking. Uh and having watched it, I don't really believe in them speaking either. Um, but like you think something might happen. The credits are going. The credits are going. I don't know if we're like short for time, but it's over.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:44

I've no idea, but they yeah, it just it all felt very anticlimactic.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

And in the dying seconds, the press run forward to get their photos of her and block the cameras. So the last shot is sort of awkwardly them trying to like clear because they're not sure if it's the recorder's finished. Really an awkward naff ending.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

But it's almost like they've dragged so much of it out. I it's not really I was gonna say it's not really dragged out watching 67 women in national costume because they're not actually given a lot of time each.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

No, it's the quickest you could have got through that.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:21

It just takes time.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

It's a lot of time.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:24

And then Yeah, it's it's a lot of time spent on very little. And then we finally get the result, and it's like, bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

Do you know anything about what happened after?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:36

I don't know what happened after this.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

Well, I because I couldn't I couldn't resist looking it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

Oh, please tell me. Um sounds like this is a story there.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:44

Yes, Miss Germany only retained her crown for 18 hours. Why? She was forced to resign. Now she said at the time that her boyfriend didn't want her to be travelling all the time. And you know, it was because of him that she was doing it. It seems like they actually forced her to resign because there were nude photos of her that had been taken at some point in the past, and the press had got hold of them, and it would make a scandal. So uh because that wasn't allowed then, you couldn't you couldn't possibly parade around in your swimsuit for the attention of men and also taking new photos, that wasn't allowed. So she was forced to resign, and Miss Guam was in uh instated, you know, in her place.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:33

I don't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:35

That's mad.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:36

It is mad. We watched this whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:38

But also for her as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

What uh given that it was 18 hours after, you're not to me, you're not telling me the press didn't have them before the contest.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:51

I I had a suspicion that that's what the cheering was about. That potentially it's actually a sort of heckling that the press know this.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

So it was the press cheering?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:03

Potentially.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

I don't know that that's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:06

As we say, I think she's very clearly one of the most sort of typically attractive and I can see why they would cheer for her.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:15

And also it's it's difficult for me to go back to 1980s politics and know whether, you know, West Germany there was anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:22

Yeah, this is true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Because when you watch Eurovision, a lot of political stuff i it it m makes its way in there. But yes, that there's there's something really dodgy went on there with her.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:34

Because 18 hours isn't a long time to be blackmailed and stripped of your crown. It's somet they knew.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:41

Oh, somebody knew somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:43

Yes, so a very odd sort of uh finish to Yes, and I mean it strikes me it it's horrific to sit strip someone 18 hours later, but it's give them all these promises because she's promised, I don't know, five grand and fifteen grand worth of work, and she thinks she's gonna be spending the next year travelling the world. Because a lot of them do this because they want to travel. Yeah. And they want all these opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:09

Well, I was gonna say though. Sorry. It's alright. There's something quite camp about it. There is something camp about going through this whole rigmarole for them to then just go switch her out. Oh, actually, yeah, no. Give it to Miss Guam. Yeah, it like we've put on a whole television show, a whole spectacle. Yeah. We're just gonna switch out the winner at the end.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:35

It it is ludicrous, and I think actually it does speak to how these women were sort of disposable.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:41

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:42

Which is part of why they have to be so young. It's because you can be quite an attractive woman. Let them be 25, you know, even. You can be attractive at any age, obviously. I'll just put that in as a disclaimer because I don't want to be cancelled. Um I I I've probably said about 20 cancellable things by now, but anyway, uh but yeah, that there's there's something about um them being disposable because they have to be able to kind of hold the winner to ransom to make her do all these press appearances throughout the year. And the thing that she gets out of it is she's told, you know, it's all these experiences and all this publicity is all good for you, and in quite a lot of their cases that isn't the truth. I do I did watch a documentary uh one time about it, um, where they were talking about the protesters outside and they had interviews with the people who'd protested it in 1970 and people who'd been contestants, and it was interesting that a lot of them were, you know, on both sides were just women trying to make it in a patriarchal world and they're choosing different paths. So the women who were contestants saw it as their opportunity out of whatever situation they were in. So they didn't want to just get married to the boy in their village, it was an opportunity to be travelling the world and getting these jobs. And the women outside saw it as kind of a negative to women as a whole and wanted to and you know their activism was about making things better for their own situation and for others, and so this was something that they needed to get rid of. They obviously didn't, you know, it dwindled in popularity, I think, because tastes changed actually. Yes. And here, yeah, my my parents sort of thought by the eighties that it would be a bit naff, um, but they would have, you know, watched it in previous years. And I think now we kind of see them as quite an odd throwback type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:38

Yeah, definitely. I think it's I mean it's had its heyday.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:42

It's had its heyday.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:43

So let's talk about camp.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Camp, yes. I think I'm disappointed on levels of camp because it starts very camp with the dancers.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:53

It's quite a the roller coaster, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:15:55

It is a roller coaster. There's some real seedy bits with the pre-preliminaries.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

And the absurdity of like the judges and the judging system. I think they say that uh the they picked or they picked five different winners amongst nine judges.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

So I I'm pretty sure that Creepy Morley just chose whichever one he wanted out of that. So yeah, there's this kind of like putting it up there as though it is a sports event or the as though there's real criteria for who's gonna win is quite uh I don't know, there's something camp about that, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:30

I think so, and I think there's something camp in presenting it as a very serious thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:35

This is a serious competition.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:37

Because they all seem to be Well, but they all seem to be taking it quite seriously.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:42

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

And then you're layering that up with Judith Charles talking about Chiffon and sort of saying disparaging things about the contestants, and it's See that is interesting, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:56

Is like they come from another country where maybe they don't have the same sense of humour.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:00

They're taking it incredibly seriously. This is the best their country has to offer, they see it. They send to another country, and then Chalmers is making quips about how they pronounce things, and some bloke does a commentary about you know their dance bit looking a bit silly to him. Like it is it's quite yeah, a kind of jarring like I can't imagine like going to the Olympics and then like the commentators just going, Oh, look at him trying. Ridiculous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:32

It's it is a this is as I say, this is a very odd expression of camp. It's undeniably camp. There's something about every part of it, I think, but in a very in in the way that I've liked least so far. And I prep I was prepared to go into it and sort of like it in an ironic way.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:52

Yes. Do you think there's a campness in the fact that we've we've spoken about the fact that really it's a patriarchal contest, but do you think there's something camp in the fact that it is very female led?

unknown 1:18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Yeah. The face of it is very female.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:11

I think that is where some of it comes from. As I say, trying to put together like the femeneness of it and celebrating the female, but not wanting to celebrate women in any way. It it it comes, it has quite a clash of intentions.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:27

It's celebrating a very narrow view of female.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:33

Yes, what a woman should be, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:35

Very narrow. Yeah. And I think there's some yes, there is something camp about that, isn't there? And putting putting things up on a pedestal, sort of like elevating the what shouldn't be elevated. I also think sometimes matching the lowbrow with the highbrow. And this sort of has grown out of competitions that they would have had at a butt lens. Oh it comes from that world of like Miss Lovely Legs or whatever. And then they've put it on this huge stage and pretended it is the Olympics or something. And I think that's quite funny, like that's quite kind of like that's part of what comes across as as being silly and camp, campy. Is like if you're a if you're on holiday and you go in for a Miss Lovely Legs competition, it's just a bit of fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:26

But taking it so seriously that you're taking these women round the Royal Opera House and you're skipping through the park. Skipping through the park and describing in detail the dress that they're wearing, all of that makes it quite odd, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:39

It's like it's almost like those kind of um tiddlywinks competitions and stuff. Like when they if they describe them in the same way that they would a really serious kind of matchup.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:53

Yes, I've got a friend that uh commentated toe wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Right, yes. See, that's silly, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:01

Yeah, it is silly.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

Uh and the silliness of and the the camp isn't just silliness, but the silliness of something with the the elevation and then trying to put this uh this Razmatazz on the whole thing, that I think is what gives us the camp.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:17

A lot of the camp that we have encountered before we've been able to celebrate.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:23

And I think some of the camp in this is a bit uh iffy.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:30

I think I'm gonna lead a charge for like uh celebrating camp, capital C, and uh separating it from campy, lowercase C. Yeah. Which is this is kind of campy because it doesn't it has no intentions of camp which is subversive, yes, and you know, fuelled I think by a desire for female queer people, sort of uh uh you know, groups to like punch through patriarchy, whereas this is campy, it's employing these elements for totally different reasons. So I I I please wait for my doctoral thesis on this. But I think that I think camp and campy might be an idea that we have to like separate and tease out what is the intent and what is what's going on here, you know. The intent here was not good, and we do not celebrate it, but it has been fascinating to go back and pick this apart.

unknown 1:21:29

Woo!

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

So that was our episode on Miss World 1980. Do you have any strong desire to go and watch any more Miss World contests now?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:38

I wish I could say I'd no desire at all, but there's a terrible little part of me that wants to watch all of them.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:45

Okay, we'll bear that in mind for future episodes. If you have enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, leave us a review, it really helps uh us get the podcast into the ears of more listeners. Tell all your friends about it, tell some enemies if you like, we don't mind who's listening. You can also follow us on social media on Instagram and TikTok. We are at Camp Icons Podcast. That is at Camp Icons Podcast. And we also have a Facebook page. You can find us there. Uh we are Camp Icons Podcast, surprisingly. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you, Liz, for hosting me.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:19

Thank you, Nick, for thanking me.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:21

Thank you for thanking me for thanking you.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:24

We could go on.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:25

We could, let's not. Uh, we will see you next week. Bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:30

Bye.