Episode 2 | Breastfeeding, Expectations & Finding Your Village with Kylie from the Australian Breastfeeding Association.

Breastfeeding, Expectations & Finding Your Village with Kylie from the Australian Breastfeeding Association. @ozbreastfeeding

Breastfeeding is often described as natural, but that doesn't always mean it's easy.

In this episode of Inside Mum's Circle, Rochelle sits down with Kylie from the Australian Breastfeeding Association (ABA) to explore the realities of breastfeeding, the challenges many mothers face, and the importance of finding support when things don't go to plan.

Drawing on more than 15 years of experience as a breastfeeding counsellor, educator, trainer, and volunteer, Kylie shares practical advice on everything from achieving a comfortable latch and understanding milk supply to recognising when it's time to seek help. Together, they unpack common myths, unrealistic expectations, and the pressure many women place on themselves during the early weeks of motherhood.

This conversation is a reassuring reminder that every feeding journey is different, support is available, and mothers deserve compassion, not judgement.

In this episode, you'll learn:
• Why breastfeeding is both natural and a learned skill
• The truth about milk supply and feeding frequency
• What a good latch should feel like
• Common breastfeeding challenges and when to seek support
• How to build your support village before baby arrives
• Why your wellbeing matters just as much as your baby's
• The services and support available through the Australian Breastfeeding Association

Whether you're expecting a baby, currently breastfeeding, or supporting a new mum, this episode offers practical guidance, reassurance, and encouragement for the journey ahead.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, I'm Rochelle and welcome back to another episode of Inside Mum's Circle. Today I'm thrilled to have Kylie from the ABA, which is the Australian Breastfeeding Association. And we're going to chat about all things breastfeeding and the wonderful not-for-profit organisation that she works with. So grab a cup of coffee, get comfy, and let's dive right in. So welcome Kylie. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for coming today. I would just love to first uh hear a little bit about you and what you do at the ABA.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

So I'm Kylie. I am a mum of four. I am a breastfeeding counselor and educator, as well as a trainer and assessor for the Australian Breastfeeding Association. Currently also the Queensland president. So that's a big volunteer role that helps to support ABA within Queensland.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

So how long have you been doing these roles for? I have been a counsellor and educator for about 15 years now. The branch president, the big role. This is my fourth year. So I've spent a lot of time volunteering for ABA.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

It's a big part of my life, big part of my family's life. And what made you want to step in such a huge volunteer role? I mean, that's a big commitment for you, for your family, and for the organization. So what made you want to um take on this role?

SPEAKER_01 1:10

It was a bit of a scope creep, really. I started, you know, just volunteering at my local group. So I went along to my first ABA group meeting when my second child was born. So back in 2011. And I went there because I wanted a mother's group. I had travelled internationally a lot with my firstborn, so I had never established a friendship group of mums before. So back to Australia, second child comes along, and I thought, well, I need to find a mother's group. They breastfeed, I breastfeed. We've got something in common. So I went along to my first group, you know, nervous, pushing two little kids along. And I quickly found that they became my village, they became my people, and here we are. So I then, you know, just volunteered at the local group to um hand some flyers out and then bake some cakes for the cake stall, and then thought, oh, I might train. So we do a certificate for in breastfeeding counselling education, and it just evolved from there, little bits by little bits, and now here we are all these years later, sitting here.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, wow, that's amazing. Such a journey, like to come from one spot here when you really needed that connection and that support all the way now to volunteering this in this really high role, which is amazing. I actually want to hear a little bit more about what the ABA does.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So, probably for me, the most important part of what we do is we provide mum-to-mum support, and that's exactly why I came along to my first ever meetup with ABA is to become friends with those other mums. We do a whole lot more than that. So there's lots of breastfeeding education. I just want to prelim that these are all volunteers who deliver these supports as well. Let's start, you know, Annie Nailey, we provide breastfeeding education classes to expectant parents, and that you know can be done anytime in your pregnancy journey, but likely after the 30-week mark, because a lot of people put a lot of emphasis on that birth, but they don't put a lot of emphasis on the breastfeeding, and that's the journey post that one particular day. As important as the birthday is, there's a whole journey afterwards. So we deliver those classes and they're absolutely gold standard classes. There's not much that you won't be able to ask or discuss or get information from those. We then do, like I said, the group catch-ups afterwards. There is a lot of online support at the moment. So since COVID, ABA pivoted greatly because our support was really needed there, and we do a lot of online virtual village type connection with podcasts as well, and videos and group catch-ups online. We also support through advocacy, through breast pump hire, and just supporting the mother and the family no matter where they're at in their breastfeeding journey. Obviously, most people may have heard of the helpline. We have a free 1-800 number, which is 24-7 every single day of the year, and you'll reach somebody like me on the other end there to you know dig into your personal story a little bit more and find out the um what's going on with your breastfeeding and what brought you to call the number. Um, and there's also live chat as well. So, again, it's not a bot on the other end, it is somebody like me sitting there in their home on their computer answering your questions.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I think that's really amazing because when we've had our groups and mumma's circle, um often breastfeeding is such a uh a tricky topic. A lot of mums have this expectation that it's going to be easy and it's going to be so natural and they're going to just latch and you're just gonna have this really amazing connection and feeling, but that's not necessarily always the case. So then they struggle with this expectation versus reality sort of situation, and then they often talk about not knowing where to go for support. So I find that they've talked about being able to call and connect with somebody real on the other end is really important.

SPEAKER_01 4:41

That's it, because everybody's journey is gonna be slightly different, and so what happens to this mum, you know, is gonna be different to what happened to for their mum or their sister or their best friend or the neighbor down the road, and so that's talking to somebody on the phone or whether it's in person at our at our catch-ups, because it's always got you know our qualified counsellor there as well, um, that really you know can dig into some of the just slight changes because everybody's journey is different, everyone's family's different, and that it's got to work for them and their journey.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Yeah, and everyone's baby's different and expectations. And I have I've had one mum recently, so she's trying to continue her breastfeeding journey with her little one. She's having some challenges and some hurdles, so but and and completely different than when it with her first. So I think that's really surprised her as well, going, you know, having a successful breastfeeding time with her first to, you know, having some challenges with her second. So that's been a real challenge for her. So I've been sort of saying, have, you know, do you want to reach out to this person or these are the resources that you can connect with to get that support? So I think the knowledge that you guys share online is is invaluable. It's amazing. And I had the pleasure of having one of your volunteers come and chat with our group, and I was blown away. Like I was honestly blown away because I think sometimes there is a bit of a stigma around the not-for-profits or the free services, and I had no miss no idea about what to expect, but I wanted to have somebody come and obviously touch on um, you know, different uh issues and challenges with breastfeeding and how you know what what does that look like for mums? So having your wonderful volunteer come blew me away. She was fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

There often is like you people think that if it's paid, then there's obviously some more value to it. But I was ABA counsellors are trained and qualified in this area. You're also not getting the mums chat on your social media, you're getting someone who has done a lot of you know training and has a lot of experience in talking to mums and mums from different backgrounds as well. I think that's one of the biggest things that I get from being a counsellor is I will answer calls on the helpline and I have to use the interpreter services or really having to use my words to dig in and get that information out and I discover so much more about these families than probably what you would have if you hadn't had that experience in how to ask questions and get the information.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Yeah, that's really important, asking the right questions, right? To actually being able to figure out what the issues actually are. You know, do you obviously see a lot of influx into your your sessions that you share postpartum or or pre-like sort of pre-baby?

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Well, it would be great if everybody came to one of our breastfeeding education classes. I will not deny that. Again, I deal a lot with pregnant women in my professional life and it's all focused on birth. And they go, Oh, we'll just we'll give it a go. But let's make a breastfeeding plan and let's see, and and it will probably cover it. But one of the biggest things for mums is the support. So, where is that support going to come from? And let's plan for that before birth and how it's all gonna happen, and then be flexible around adjusting that. So, yes, I do get a lot of the when when a problem arises, but one of the biggest things for me for A for staying with ABA is it's not just about when let's solve a problem, it was about creating that village and creating those supports you know beforehand to um support that journey the whole way along. And then it's not just about breastfeeding, it's sleep and settling, it's introducing solids, it's weaning as well down that journey that we can support with the whole way through.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

Yeah, I love and actually touching on that, I love that it's about putting a plan in place. And again, it's I think a lot of women go, oh, I just need to get through the birth, and then I can focus on this, or I can focus on sleep, or I can focus on vitamins and health and wellness and getting back to the gym or whatever. Um, but I think it's really valuable that you're talking about sort of putting that plan in place pre-birth, um, so that you have some sort of idea so that it doesn't get sort of lost in in that moment when you're a bit overwhelmed or just trying to fix a problem. Really hormonal. Correct, correct. So, what is the biggest misconception you hear from new mothers before they start breastfeeding and the thing that then sets them up for unnecessary struggle?

SPEAKER_01 8:38

There's a couple of things in that question. The theory that it's natural, but it's also a learnt skill. And it's a learnt skill that the mother and the baby haven't, you know, practiced before, and it's not until that baby arrives that they're able to actually practice. I recently did a breastfeeding education class for a woman and I cared for her in my professional role. She's like, I didn't know that there was a you know extensive practical exam at the end of it because oh my god, the baby's out, and now I have to put into practice everything that you just told me in this class. Um, so understanding that, but also a whole bunch of societal um influences around what breastfeeding should look like, what a good mother should look like, what sleep should look like, what your house should look like, all of that really impacts what's gonna happen postpartum, and I think demystifying all of those things about what's life gonna look like once the baby is actually on the outside.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

So I'd love for you to just walk us through what a good latch actually looks like, feels, and sounds like. I mean, it's gonna be a bit tricky without having a baby here, but I'm sure that you'll be able to explain it to us because so many mums are told it shouldn't hurt, but they have no idea what that actually means.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

It's actually a really great question to do without a baby because ABA counselors are trained on the helpline and we're really good at using our words to try and describe it. Um, and I try and use some images that might link into your mind. Most importantly, it's not about what it looks like, it's about what it feels like. So it could, you know, midwives will come in and they'll say, Oh, looks great, but what does it feel like for the mother? If there is any pain, and particularly if there's any damage at the end of the feed, then that's initially big red flags. Let's let's work what's going on. So I always say, tell me how it feels first. It may be uncomfortable when the baby first latches, but it shouldn't remain uncomfortable, and it certainly shouldn't be toe-curlingly tear-inducing pain for more than a few seconds or at all. A little bit of discomfort as the baby latches on. And then what the latch should actually look like. So we want that baby to be rolled over. You know, I'm gonna talk about a cradle hole. That's the most common feeding position that we see. The baby needs to be rolled right on over, so it the you know it's the skin to skin is there, that tummy to mummy. The chin is hitting the breast and in the breast, so there's no gap between the breast and the chin, no gape there. Um, and then that means that the nose is clear. So having that baby rolled over, and you look at them and you can see the ear, shoulder, and hip are all in line, that means that the head is tilted back a little bit with that open airway and the chin is in the breast. That allows the nipple to go up into the soft palate rather than going straight into the mouth and being clamped into the hard palate, which is usually where you'll get that pain and the damage at the end of it. So these are all things that, if that's not occurring, we're doing micro movements. We're not, you know, sweeping our baby across our body. It's all just you know, small little movements to bring them over to one side a little bit more, allows their head to tilt back and makes the nipple go up into the soft palate. The um top lip should just be sitting neutrally on the top of the breast, and the bottom lip is uh is flanged out. However, you might not see that because it's tucked into the breast because the chin is tucked into the breast. So that's sort of what it looks like in a cradle hold. Um, but again, more important, what does it feel like for the mother?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

So that's really that's a really great thing to touch on, actually, and start with that sort of question. I think that's awesome that you guys would ask that question because I don't ever remember being asked, like, how does it feel? It was always just, oh yep, looks good. Yeah, lips blended out, looks great. Yeah, yeah, off you go, and you're like, oh, that doesn't really feel very nice though. But again, it was sort of like minimized, right? In that sort of the healthcare industries and stuff. Um, but yeah, I think that's um it's good to think about it from that perspective. What does it feel like first?

SPEAKER_01 12:24

And it may feel a little bit different from the beginning of the feed to you know, it might be a little bit uncomfortable when they first latch, and then you sort of get it into the right position and you have that let down and it feels really good. But then as you relax into your feed, you know, dropping that baby can cause a little bit of drape or pull on the breast. So then you go, oh, actually, now that's painful again. Let's just you know bring the baby back up into a more comfortable position. So it's constantly testing and adjusting in those micro movements.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

And also as they get bigger, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Correct, and they figure it out themselves and they latch on in all different positions.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Absolutely. So supply is probably the number one anxiety for new breastfeeding mums. I we often have this conversation in mumma's circle where they'll be like, oh, I had low supply, which can be totally valid, um, and a reason why the baby um might be struggling and feeding and and all of the things with um that part of it. So, but what what's actually true about how supplies work and what do women um what is one thing that you'd want to tell women about this?

SPEAKER_01 13:22

You're right, supply is probably in the top five reasons people call the helpline. Um and we know that we do you know research and data around why people are calling us, um, and supply is always up there. So it does vary a little bit in those first six weeks while the uterus is contracting back down to its normal pear-shaped size in the pelvis. Um supply is also driven by hormones as well, because you've got a lot of that um hormones as your as your body repairs up post-birth. But it is you know driven a lot by the way that the milk is removed, milk is made. So the more milk that we are removing, and I I steer away from the demand because some babies don't necessarily demand, um, but the more milk we're removing, the more milk we're going to be making. Looking at supply, and when I counsel women around this, it is not just about the baby who is awake a lot or cries a lot. In fact, both of those things are not necessarily any indication of supply. We have to look at this whole picture very holistically in regards to what goes in must come out. So is my baby having the appropriate wet nappies in those early days and it transitions? You know, we want one wee on day one, two wee's on day two, three wee's on day three, four wheels on day four, and then um five wet nappies post that. What is the what are the poos looking like in those early weeks? Are we having a soft poo every day? Is it transitioning from your meconium to your greeny-browny poo's and then to your yellowy mustardy poos? Is it soft? Then we look at things like do we have weight gain? So is weight gain in that first three to five days, whilst you've got colostrum transitioning over to mature milk, it is normal for the baby to lose up to 10%. And that's a that's a um holistic number as well. You know, some babies won't be effectively feeding and I've only lost 9.8%. Other things, babies might have lost 10.5%, but you know, everything else is going well, and that milk is just transitioning. So there's lots of things to have a look at in those early days around weight. Um, and then you know, as the baby returns back to birth weight, usually by the end of the second week, but again, varying on your story, are we having them weight gain over a period of time? When you think about a heavily wet disposable, is about 60 mils of fluid, which is about 60 grams. Please don't go and weigh your nappies. Don't overthink it that much, but it's about that. You that baby does have a big heavy wet wee right before you weigh them today compared to what they did yesterday. You're gonna skew the data and you're gonna have too many data points. So, post-returning to birth weight, let's weigh every month. Let's also check length growth and head circumference every month as well. So there's a whole picture that talks about what goes in, must come out, and our weight. Is our baby active and alert and waking for feeds? I hear that one a lot: that my baby's really wakeful, so they can't be getting enough. They're crying all the time, they're waking five times at night. But actually, a wakeful baby is a healthy baby too. Our babies who aren't waking for feeds are lethargic babies and may not necessarily be healthy babies. So there's a whole lot that again, not one situation is going to fit the next person. So we have to look at everything that's going on in that picture around supply. But the whole concept of what goes out, you know, is made again. So the more milk you remove, the more milk you make.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, well, there's a lot of different elements when it comes to the supply, right? That's amazing. The other question that I wanted to ask actually was around the efficiency of feeding. Like I've heard a lot around that.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, so ensuring that latch is really good. So that latch where you're not getting any pain allows that transfer of milk to occur more effectively. Also being able to encourage that let down, which makes the most amount of milk available for your baby. So that's where the milk, and again, I see this all the time. This is not something that people get told in their early, you know, in those early first few days. So the baby will latch on and they suck, suck, suck quite frantically. That just stimulates a message up to the brain to say, there's a baby in my breast, release oxytocin, that hormone of love, releases oxytocin and it pushes the milk out. And that can happen 90 seconds to two minutes after a feed. And every feed's gonna be different because how do we get oxytocin? Well, how do we stop oxytocin release? Stress, anxiety, fear, pain. So you're post-season, you're in pain, the first time the in-laws come over and you're anxious and nervous, it's been painful, so you're a bit anxious, your baby's crying, all these things are gonna prevent that let down and prevent that, you know, good transfer of milk. So dropping the shoulders, taking deep breaths, you know, all those things you'd normally do in a high stress situation to help that milk let down, to then feed your baby and have that milk transfer as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

So for you, you're sort of like protecting that feeding moment, right? So that you really can nourish the baby in that moment effectively. Yeah, right. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Really understanding how what's normal for a baby, what's normal for you. Like some and as you get more confident, yeah, okay, feeding down the side of the footy field will be fine. But at the moment, when you're learning, like, okay, I need everything to be okay for me, and I need to not be in any pain, and I need to sit here and just be with this moment.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

I love that you say that because I remember day three for me. Um, and I come from a really big family, so I'm one of six kids, and I think like my whole family and extended family and my husband's family came to visit us on that day. And I'm sitting in the hospital, and my baby had gone to the NICU, and then she was jaundice, and she had just come back to the room, and I'm going, I need to feed her because she's just been real sleepy, she's had four hours sleep in her own, they're like, You need to wake her up, and so I'm just I'm trying to feed, and it's all these people, and my husband's like, Do you need to cover up? My brother's here. Like, and not because he was being horrible or anything, but in that moment, I was like, I'm just I'm trying to learn, and so hearing what you're saying, that's that's why then she fed all night because my body wasn't actually able to relax and be calm in that moment to feed her properly. Okay, I'm learning new things every day. I love this. So it wasn't my fault. No, no. Excellent, okay. Yes, okay. Um, so what are the early signs that feeding is going well? And what are the red flags that tell you it's time to get some support?

SPEAKER_01 19:28

Yeah, so that pain and damage, red flags straight away. And that may be, if you're still in hospital, that may be ringing the bell again and ringing the bell again and ringing the bell again. And that once you're at home, that might be calling ABA. Um, that's probably the best way to get support really quickly around you know, pain and damage. Other red flags is like we said, a too sleepy baby. Because actually, a baby who is waking for their feeds is a healthy well baby. And it's kind of contradictory in your mind. People say, Oh, you know, my baby slept for this long, how wonderful. Must be a sign that they're doing something right. But actually, that baby is not strong enough to wake itself. So a baby who is healthy wakes for feeds. Um, and then looking at the output, and I think I I covered that there, and these are all really good signs that things are going well.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I love that you've covered all that, so it's a holistic point of view. Like I often talk to our mums in the groups um when they're starting solids and they're like, oh, they didn't really eat very much, or they've they've done they haven't had much input today. And I and I say, look at it from a week's view. Like, don't look at it from a 24-hour perspective. It's like when they're a bit older and a bit, you know, sort of trying new things, and so look at it from a holistic point of view for that child.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Because of their little people, like they have their own little emotions and their own decisions to make every day. Sometimes I will drink a lot and eat a lot, and other days I'm running dry and running on empty. It's fine, and I'm gonna put myself to bed. But I mean, obviously, babies should be feeding regularly, especially in those early days. You're looking at eight to twelve times in a that um a 24-hour period in those early days. And talk about societal expectations is I say focus on that 12 times at least, and not let's not talk about how often they're feeding three hourly. Let's talk about you know what that how how many times in that 24 hours were they effective feeds. Remembering breast milk is not just their food, so they don't eat breakfast, lunch, dinner. They are how many times would we have a sip of water, grab some grapes as we pass the fridge, have a snack, then sit down and have a big sandwich for lunch, and then you know, more cup of coffee, more sips of water, afternoon snack. That's the same as for a baby. So they might have a short feed and then go an hour and then have a slightly longer feed, which might last 40 minutes, and then sleep for two hours, and then they'll have another 25 minute feed and sleep for three hours, and then they might have, you know, so it's all, it's not every three hours. So I I really don't like the term when people say how often does your baby feed, because that leads us to think that there is an answer there. It is what the baby wants, and as long as we're looking at that eight to twelve times in 24 hours periods, let's hope for that they're in the daylight waking hours, but feeding overnight's. Really important for your supply as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

So with the um that feed on demand, because again, uh you know, mine are teenagers now, and we were often told, you know, so you wake them every three hours and they feed for 20 minutes each side, and then you put the you know, do that routine, that's sort of that expectation. And I feel like there's been a shift now in what that looks like for mums. Um, so that feed on demand, is that sort of what you're referring to?

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Absolutely. I want to preliminate, so this is for healthy, well, newborn babies. So obviously, if you've got a baby in the nursery or a baby with particular medical conditions, that it it is different. Um, but for your baby who is, you know, born at term and is well and is healthy, um, feeding whenever the baby gives those feeding cues. So there's often like if in doubt offer the breast. You're not sure what to do, just try and feed them. And you know, it's our job to offer, it's their job to take. They might have a short feed, they might have a long feed, and that that's gonna look, and I I I see that all the time with women who are then going, right, I've got to get to the gym, so I'm gonna feed my baby before they go into the crates at the gym, or um, then I've got to come back and I'm gonna feed the baby again, and then I'm gonna do the dishes. And I'm they're very structured in how their baby's gonna feed throughout the day, when actually that baby has different ideas and it's gonna feed when it wants to. A lot of women are working um you know, in paid work, so they're used to sort of controlling their day and organizing far more so than maybe generations ago. I'm not saying that working mums is bad in any way as a working mum, but we have a way that we believe that our day should be at some sort of structure where we should know what's happening, that the routine should be there.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Well, and productive, right? Productive.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

Which is then a baby comes along and it says, Well, you're not gonna reach your goal today. Those what you know, your clothes are not gonna get washed. And we all just have to take a deep breath and accept that. Your job is to feed your baby, care for your baby.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

What are the most common reasons breastfeeding breaks down in those first few weeks?

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Quite possibly, I think we've we've really touched on it, is that expectation around what it's going to look like. So if we can make those plans an innately, where are our supports? And everybody's supports are going to be different. My family is gonna look very different to yours, to the neighbours. Um, so who can come and help me out? And that's not necessarily coming and holding my baby, that might be coming and please do my vacuuming. I love having putting my vacuum cleaner at the front door when my babies are born and see who steps over it and see who picks it up. Vacuum cleaner's still there, by the way, and they're quite old now. Just still trying it out.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Oh, this is a good test. Maybe I need to try this at home. Maybe my kids will pick it up.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

Someone's gonna pick it up eventually. But that who are those supports who are gonna come and nurture the mum in those first few weeks, and then you know, we often get visitors in the first couple of days at home, maybe the first few weeks, but then what about week four, week five, week six? They're still, you know, learning our way then, and then our partner's gonna go back to work. What is that going to look like? So setting up that family expectation and that village expectation, because it doesn't necessarily have to be family. In fact, the people who've supported me most are my ABA friends who, you know, once I had my third child and it all went to custard, and my husband decided it would be a really great idea to go back to work. They were the ones that knocked on my door with the bread and the milk and came on in and changed the kids' night nappies and brushed their hair and got them going. So it's all about how do we, you know, meet what I need to meet as a mum? Because there's certain things that I have as non-negotiables as well, like the dishes. So I'm gonna get them done. And if someone can come and do them for me, then I can, you know, have that more support around me in those early days.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, I think that we were gonna talk about like the practical support to be able to support mums, but I think you've touched on that beautifully. Um, the practical support having the plan, um, having your village come and support you, um, and so that you can nourish your baby in that moment, and that's gonna really support your breastfeeding journey, I think. It puts less pressure on you to having to manage all of the other things at the same time. So yeah, that's amazing. Um, for a mum who has tried everything and is at her breaking point, what do you want her to hear right now and what are her real options at this stage?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

So you're gonna call the ABA help line and you're gonna get a counsellor, and it could be 2 a.m. in the morning and you could be in tears. And actually, our fabulous counselors who do overnight shifts are so used to that because that's when you need someone to hear you. Um but I'll tell a little bit of a personal story on this one that is I have four children. Three of them were breastfed for a very long time. The fourth wasn't breastfed at all. But that doesn't mean that there's any less love, that doesn't mean that there's any less connection or bond or attachment with that child. That's just a part of who he is and the story that he has behind him. Um, and so that's you're not a failure, and you don't need to call the helpline or even seek any help to or justification or permission to not feed. That's really important. Love is still the same, and you're gonna you know be responsive and care for your baby just the same. You're not any less of a mum. And I think I've got those kids to prove it that the bond and the attachment is still there just as strong. Okay. He didn't have you know the optimal start to life that the other kids did. But that's just a part of his story, and he's still you know very well attached and thriving.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

I love hearing that because I think there's so much guilt around it, right? There's so much guilt around um I must breastfeed. If I don't breastfeed, then it's you know, there's this stigma put around it, or oh, your baby wouldn't have these issues, or the your child wouldn't have was was your child breastfed? So I think like I really appreciate um you sharing that, like if someone is at their breaking point, like it's okay. Like get support, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

And you don't need permission from anybody. That's that's you know what's gonna work for you and your family at that point in time is where you need to lean into. And so I often will get a call and I'm you know trying to problem solve and you know, she troubleshoot all the issues, and they I just keep sort of getting rebutted almost. I'm like, hang on, this lady is just wanting me to give her permission. And she don't know, and I I do, I they don't even need my permission, but I guess we want some reassurance that it's okay. I'm not gonna understate the value of breast milk, but it's still okay because that love is still there, you know, less of the mum.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

Yeah, and that mental health and wellness too, right? If that mum is really struggling, it's it's important for them to feel okay, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

I think that's one of the biggest things about ABA I love is that we have unconditional positive regard that is well embedded within our code of ethics. So you you know, we meet mums where they're at every single time.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

And that is something that I can a hundred percent attest to having that beautiful volunteer come on that day because she was so supportive of every question that was given in that group without judgment. And that is something that we really, really support in Mumma's Circle. Our our whole ethos is really around do what's right for you and your family in that moment, and um, whether you have a really strong opinion one way or another, um, share it respectfully, but also respect that other people need to do what they need to do for themselves. So, um, which I absolutely agree with 100%. Um, so obviously, you guys offer a lot of support at the ABA online. Um, I'm also a member myself, right? Fantastic. I love getting my updates because I love being able to share that with the community as well, and I think also supporting a not-for-profit and your beautiful volunteers. How many volunteers do you have now?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

In Queensland, we sit at about 120 volunteers. It ebbs and flows a little bit. Um, volunteering in ABA, volunteering in all sectors has taken a dive over the last, let's say, 10 years. Um, you know, you don't have as many PC volunteers, tuck-top volunteers, soccer coaches, all that. We we felt that hard too. Um, but we have women who are really passionate about what they do and they are qualified, so they have to get through that certificate for. So they're really passionate and driven to support other mums.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

So yeah, ebbs and flows a bit. How do you manage all those volunteers?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

So ABA is a national organisation, we're broken down into branches. That's roughly along state lines. We've got ACT, New South Wales as one branch, and South Australia NT is one branch, but otherwise it's along the state lines. Um, and then we break break our state, so Queensland's then broken down to regions. I have seven regions in Queensland, and then we break ourselves down to groups. So it's like a little, you know, I support, I have some assistants with me who then have regional reps who are then support the volunteers at a group level. And so we just, it is a really big village, I must say. One thing so um that keeps me with ABA is prior to this life I was defence beforehand, and my family was defence, and every time my husband would come home with a posting order, he would say, It's okay, I already got it. I've got this posting order, but there's an ABA group there. He looked it up.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

He knew you'd be okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:36

Yeah, and so you'll find new friends there. So, yeah, well, so while we've got a structure and helping to support our volunteers, um we um have a group that we were able to link into and say, Look, I need to debrief. I've just had a really hard call, and anybody, other volunteers will come on in. One thing that amazes me is that ABA, a lot of the volunteers, we have volunteers of 40 plus years and not just one or two, but a lot, 40, 30 years. Like I, you know, in two weeks' time, I'll have the Queensland Branch conference and bring all my volunteers down to Brisbane here for a big two-day professional development conference. And I'll sit at a table with hundreds of years counselling experience as a volunteer. So for me as well, why I still support ABA is that okay, my feeding journey is over now, but they're giving me parenting advice. They got grandkids, and I'm like, oh, my teenager's done this, and they're like, that's okay. Let's talk that through.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Survive, it's okay. Let's look at some strategies around that today.

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Really good intergenerational support through all of my parenting journey there.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

So if you could leave um every new mother with one thing to hold on as she starts her breastfeeding journey, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Oh, to trust yourself. Trust yourself, trust your body, trust your baby. And if you can lean into your own intuition around that, then you're probably on the right track. If you know you have to reach out for help, then that's exactly what you need to do. Um reaching out for help when you're unsure or just want some reassurance is really important, but just to trust, we mostly have it in us to know what we need to do. And if that maybe just to reach out.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Well, thank you so much for coming today. I so appreciate you. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. If this podcast resonated with you, please feel free to leave a review, share with a mum that might need it, and we're so glad to have you part of our inner circle.