Newborn Baby Sleep: What Every New Mum Needs to Know | Nicole (Perfect Timing Sleep Consulting)

If you've ever found yourself Googling wake windows at 2am, wondering why your baby won't stop crying, or feeling like you're doing everything wrong — this episode is for you.

Rashelle sits down with Nicole, founder of Perfect Timing Sleep Consulting and infant and child sleep expert, for one of the most honest, reassuring conversations about baby sleep you'll hear.

In this episode you'll learn:

✦ The biggest myth about newborn sleep (and why it sets so many mums up to struggle)
✦ What normal newborn sleep actually looks like in the first six months
✦ Why the four-month sleep regression is really a progression — and what's happening biologically
✦ What sleep hygiene means for babies and how to build it from day one
✦ How to read your baby's sleep cues without watching the clock obsessively
✦ The feed, play, sleep routine explained simply
✦ What habit stacking is and how it can help when life doesn't go to plan
✦ Why nothing about your baby's sleep is forever — and how to get support if you need it

Nicole's approach is warm, evidence-based, and deeply empathetic to how exhausted mums really are. Whether you have a newborn or a six-month-old, you'll finish this episode feeling clearer, calmer, and more confident.

Connect with Nicole:
Perfect Timing Sleep Consultant
Facebook | Instagram 

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Connect with Mummas Circle:
🌸 Website: www.mummascircle.com
📘 Facebook Community: Mummas Circle
Instagram: @mummascircle_
📺 YouTube: @MummasCircle

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everyone, I'm Rochelle and welcome back to another episode of Inside Mumma's Circle. I'm thrilled to have Nicole from Perfect Timing Sleep Consulting today talking about all things sleep. So grab a cup of coffee, get comfy, and let's dive right in. Thank you so much, Nicole, for joining us today. I really appreciate it. Obviously, sleep is such an important, huge topic that so many mums struggle with, have questions about. So we're really excited to deep dive into some of these topics today. Can you start by introducing yourself and your why to become a sleep consultant?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I'm Nicole. I am the founder of Perfect Timing Sleep Consultant. I'm an infant and child sleep consultant. I work from newborns, write third or four-year-olds, and everything in between. My why is that I'm so passionate about mums. I love hanging out with babies every day, children every day, but honestly, mums are really where my passion lies, and I really want every mum to be able to be the best mum that they ever thought they would be.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

And I think I love that when you come to our mums' groups, that you really preface that because our mums prioritizing their own sleep and wellness is actually the most important thing. So I really love that you do that with our groups. You talk about that as the outset, which is amazing. Can you start by busting the biggest myth you hear from exhausted new parents?

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah, I think the biggest myth is that we and I was the same, we go into parenting and we think that our babies are gonna be really predictable or they're gonna kind of sleep. I've definitely thought that babies just sleep, particularly newborns, but I think the first six to twelve weeks of being a parent or having a baby is the most unpredictable time. We think that they're gonna be their sleepy newborns, but in fact they have short naps, they wake frequently, they're easily stimulated, and it is just really hard. So I think the biggest myth is that we think that they're gonna be their sleepy babies when they're really not.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, I think also that the stimulation part of it, I think that was something that I wasn't really prepared for, not knowing that they can get overstimulated so easily, and that contact naps were a thing. I didn't, I thought you just put the baby down and they would be like, okay, great, we're gonna go to sleep now. So yeah, I can definitely resonate with that. You think they're gonna sleep or they're gonna be predictable, which is just not the case. And so, what does normal newborn sleep actually look like in the first six months?

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, and I think the first six months is like a huge range developmentally sleep-wise. So, yeah, I think the first six to twelve weeks, you know, they're really unpredictable. They spend a lot of time in active sleep. This is where we see those really noisy newborns, right? They're snuffly, they're grunty, they're trying to escape. They they they really like active sleepers, and they don't have a fully developed circadian rhythm. And obviously, for Thai mums, that's not like super important, but what that means is that they're not predictable. As they get older, that three, four, five month olds, they become a lot more predictable for us, or we can expect a lot more from them. Versus the newborns, it's more about biology and about just going with it.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

In that, those bad habits that people talk about, or that your grandmother talks about, you can't be holding that baby the whole time because it's gonna create a bad habit. So, with that, in the first 12 weeks, that's not a thing, is it? You're not gonna create bad habits?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

No, I think you can never look. My motto is there's no such thing as a bad habit. It's just if something's not working for you, then you can definitely change it. What I would say about creating bad habits, it's more about in those first yeah, six to twelve weeks, maybe it's more about thinking about just being really thinking about their foundation, the foundation of sleep. The stuff that I always talk about, which is sleep hygiene. That's so important for right through until us for adult as adults. But what we can do rather than being really anxious about I'm holding my baby too much or I'm doing this all wrong, is maybe just think about those little things like having a predictable bedtime routine, having that wind-down routine, thinking about the sleep environment versus oh my god, I'm holding my baby too much.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

So then after the what you say, we can expect a bit more from the three, four, five, six-month-olds.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

That's where it is about habit stacking and thinking about that's definitely where you can be like, okay, now it's not really biological biological sleep. Now it's I can actually shift and mold and change things and think about, okay, I can expect a bit more from them. They, their circadian rhythm is changing, is maturing, which means we can expect more from them, which means that we can think more about habit stacking, think more about how they're actually going to sleep. That's definitely when we can, if you want to, back away from lots of contact naps, back away from lots of assisted sleep and settling. So I guess all in all, there's no such thing as a bad habit. In the early days, what I would say is think about how I can set myself up for success and think about the foundations of sleep. Having a predictable nap time so that when they are old enough and you are ready to do some sleep training, or to think about how I can back away from all of these things that I'm doing, you're gonna you're gonna have a baby that's really ready and set up for that.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

So walk us through what's happening biologically. How are newborn sleep cycles different from adult sleep? And when does that start to shift?

SPEAKER_00 6:03

And I think this is really important, and this is where I have a lot of conversations around the four-month sleep regression, right? So before four months and generally around so around the six to eight week mark, this is when our little ones start to produce their own melatonin. And when we think about how melatonin interacts with the circadian rhythm, so this is what really sets our awake and sleep cycle. So when they start producing their own melatonin, which is around the six to eight-week mark, this is when we can start seeing our babies that maybe were really sleepy start to be more wakeful, they start to get harder to settle, they start having really short naps, and then we kind of transition into that four-month sleep regression or progression, what I like to call it, or a system upgrade. That four-month mark is when their sleep cycles are actually maturing into adult-like sleep cycles. So they move from newborn-like sleep cycles, which are generally longer, they're more settled, they then transition into short naps, melatonin start to being produced to that four-month sleep regression or that four-month mark where their sleep cycles are fully matured and they have adult-like sleep cycles, which means that light sleep, deep sleep, REM sleep, light sleep and awake. And so they have these really clear sleep cycles. So around that four-month mark is when we start to see them fully mature into adult-like sleep cycles, and that never goes away. That's something that will stay with them adult-like sleep cycles. So before that four-month mark, they are definitely more like light sleep, deep sleep, light sleep, deep sleep. They don't really have that REM sleep either.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Interesting. Yeah, I actually want to touch on now though that sleep hygiene. Yeah. Because I think that's actually super important for not realizing that's something that we can implement from day one, essentially, I feel. So I'd love to hear more about that.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah, so sleep hygiene is really just like our personal hygiene, right? Something that we do every day. So if we think about sleep hygiene, these are the things that we can, we as parents can implement or change or tweak at home. So this is things like our sleep environment. What does it look like? What does it sound like? What does it feel like? How can I get a sleep environment that is conducive to sleep? That's obviously going to help with sleep and settling. Wind down routines. So, how again, so important for us as well as parents or as adults, a wind-down routine. So it's that 10-15 minutes before a nap or before bed, what does that look like? It's just an opportunity for you to signal to your baby that sleep time is approaching. So you might go into their room, shut their blinds, turn the white noise on, these little things that you do every day to signal to cue that sleep time is approaching. And then a routine. And a routine doesn't necessarily mean uh it can feel really restrictive, and it can feel like we've got no room for movement. But what I find a routine does is it again sets our little ones up for sleep. So if they know, we know that children thrive off routine, you go to a daycare, they have the routine all listed out there: morning tea, lunch, nap time, pick cleanup time, all this. All of the kids know exactly what's going to happen. When they've got 25 kids, they need everyone to be really predictable for them, right? So a routine, children thrive off routine. So it helps that when we're thinking about sleep, that when they know that sleep time is approaching with a wind-down routine and they have a predictable nap time or predictable bedtime, that also helps with sleep and settling. Sleep hygiene is really that foundation of sleep to then help our little ones settle off to sleep.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

I think what I love around sleep hygiene is that setting up that it doesn't have to happen in every nap, right? Because I think we've had some mums in the group say, Oh, I've got to do daycare pickup for my toddler, or I've got to do school run for my older children. And I think then people can get really held up in this, oh no, then they're not gonna have that same routine or that same sleep hygiene each time. But I think what I love is that you bring in that just set one a day or two a day that you know that you can achieve. So then that child then knows, or that baby then knows that those are the two that they're gonna have X, Y, Z, and you can actually have that bit of predictability in your day.

SPEAKER_00 10:32

I love that. And do you know what? If you have a day that is out of whack, or you're traveling, or you've got things on all day, and you're not you know you're not gonna be at home. The other wonderful thing about having the routine or having sleep hygiene really well sorted is that when you do come home or when is the next day, you can quickly and easily fall back into that predictable routine so that your baby's, oh, okay, I know what I'm doing. So you can have days that are, I think a routine or having some predictability in your day actually creates more flexibility than feeling restricted at home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yeah. I loved also something that I did learn from you. Obviously, my kids are teenagers now, but what I love was that you talked on habit stacking. So that was a term that I had actually never heard before. I'd love for you to share a little bit about habit stacking with our with our kids.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

And I think that probably comes back to sleep hygiene, right? So it's all these little things that we can do to set our little ones up for success. In the end, we can do all of the things, we can help them, we can settle them we can do all of the settling.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

So like the rocking and the padding and the shishing and the jiggling.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Right. And then if that but then I guess if that's not working for you, so that's I guess you're stacking on habits that maybe they can't recreate on their own. And again, that's fine. If it's working for you and it's all under control and you're having a great time, great. But when we're not, then these, I guess, these and again, I don't really even like to say habits, but I guess these sleep associations can start to backfire on us if we're not having a great time, and so then we can slowly remove those habits or slowly remove the habits that we want to change or the sleep associations that we want to change and stack on things that we can.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

I think that was a perfect example of when something that you talked about in one of our groups was that the mum couldn't make it all black. If they're flying on a plane, they couldn't make it completely black out or even have the white noise, but she had a little teddy that she could hold on to it and she was like self-soothed. And so that was part of that sleep habit because she had that in the dark room with the white noise, but couldn't recreate that other space when you're on a plane or travelling. So she was able to still have teddy. So that's that habit stacking I thought was was really beneficial to think about from that perspective.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

So yeah, and I think that's it, right? So you can have all of these things, and if you can't recreate it all, then even just a couple of things that might help set them, like cue to them that sleep time is approaching.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Beautiful. So, what other sleep cues parents should be watching for, and what happens, what can happen if we miss a window? Because I didn't realise when my little ones were little, first rather, because I learned really quickly, that she would just like just stare. Uh like off. What are some of those cues cues? Because I didn't know, right? You don't know what you don't know. I know when your first baby you're like, ah, what do I do with you? So, yeah, I'd love to hear some of those sleep cues for those new parents that you could let them know.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Do you know? I think one thing about sleep cues is that they can quickly easily be missed. And so we're constantly sitting there looking for red eyebrows or clenched fists, and then suddenly we're down the track and we're like, well, like this baby's way overtired. So I think sleepy cues are really great in context. So things like, yeah, red eyebrows, uh, scrunching the fists, obviously crying, yawning, sometimes they can even be more jerky in their movements. So these things are all really great. One thing is that they're quite useful for newborns, but I tend to find that as they get older, so that three, four-month mark, it's probably more so about thinking about awake times. And awake times are really just times that our babies can be awake before they're overtired, right? So it's yes, you can get really scientific in what an awake time is, but essentially it's how long can my baby be awake before they're tired or before they're overtired. So I really would say look for the CPQs, but also think about them in context. I don't want you constantly watching the clock because they're not robots. So really it is about the whole baby. How long have they been awake for? What is their awake time? Are we seeing some overtired signs? If anything, overtiredness just makes it so much harder for them to settle. They once they get overtired, they get high levels of cortisol. Cortisol is our awake hormone, right? Melatonin is our sleepy hormone. So when they get high levels of cortisol, when they're overtired, they're just harder to sleep, harder to settle, don't sleep well and wake more frequently. So sleepy cues are great for newborns, they can easily be missed, and so that's when it's like thinking about their awake time in context with their sleepy cues, and also understanding that they're not robots, and it can actually be 15 minutes either side of what we can Google online about awake time.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

So yeah, I'm sure that you get a lot of those questions, right? And then they've done that Google, like the 2 a.m. Google, and they're like, oh, what about this? What about this? Do you get a lot of that? Of course.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I think yeah, look, yeah, and you know what? I always say everything that I'm telling you, you'll be able to find on Google. It's not new news. Everything that I all the information that I share is very easily accessible. It's just a matter of can you put it all together and put it towards your little one? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

I think that's correct. And I think what you offer from the support perspective is actually so valuable, right? Because yes, while you can search it up and while you can go, oh, this is what it should be and the wait windows and things, I think the invaluableness of your what you do is that support. Am I doing it right? Actually, I don't know if she's really quite ready. This is the series of events that's happened. Would you recommend to pop them down or have a loose guide to follow? I think that's really amazing.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

And you know what? It's just simplified because there is so much information, like overwhelming amount of information about sleep or anything. In the end, the information is simplified because you know what? They come to me, they're tired, they're exhausted, they just want help, and they're like, I've been Googling and Googling, or I've talked to a hundred friends. In the end, it is just about here's the information, let's make a plan and let's simplify it so you can achieve your goals. Because yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Love that. I think that's so valuable. So, what does a gentle routine actually mean for a newborn? And how early is too too early to start one?

SPEAKER_00 17:13

You know what? I think it goes back to that sleep hygiene, right? Some newborns will fit into a routine, some might take weeks to get into a routine, some are a lot more predictable when they're kind of three or four months old. You know what? I think, in terms of what is a gentle routine for a newborn, it's probably going back to the sleep hygiene stuff. So just thinking about what where do I actually want to go with my little one's sleep? Do I want to be predictable? Okay, we can start with a wind-down routine. Start with a rough time that you're gonna be putting them down, but know that a newborn often won't fall into a routine, and I would be more thinking about hey, those awake times, ensuring that they're not super overtired rather than trying to be really structured for a newborn. It's just impossible sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

So, with that, like I love that you've helped that whole concept around the gentle routine and going with that and starting with that sleep hygiene. I, this was many years ago, obviously. My oldest is 18 this year, but it was the feed play sleep routine, which I had no idea about. I'll put my hand up and be like, oh, my baby was awake for five hours at four weeks old. Why is she screaming at me? She should be so tired. Ringing my twin sister, going, Why will she not stop screaming? She said, Did you do the feed play sleep? I went, What is this? So I'm sure everybody else already knows this, but would you mind just sharing?

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Yeah, you know what? It was a really simple way to think about having a rough guide and a rough routine. In the end, what feed play sleep is actually doing is separating feed and sleep, right? And you know what? A lot of the time, little ones, well, parents come to me, they have a feed-to-sleep association, right? So if you feed them, then have a downtime or a playtime, exert some energy, and then go into sleep, that's obviously moving that. It's just all it is doing is just separating feeds and sleep and allowing them to have a bit of time to exert some energy before bedtime. And I think it's really it is super simple, but it's really helpful. Yeah, and something that I would definitely talk about with my newborn clients. Yeah, beautiful, beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

So sleep deprivation is brutal. I actually loved how you said in one of the groups where there's tired but caffeinated or something, those t-shirts that are going around, and that you actually have a real aversion to that because it's almost like accepting that's just normal, that your baby just will never sleep, and that you're just gonna caffeinate and be okay. So, yes, we recognize sleep deprivation is brutal. How do you balance the practical advice you give with empathy for how depleted parents are feeling by the time they reach you?

SPEAKER_00 20:05

And I I think I just touched on that, right? Like parents are coming to me. Look, I would love it if every parent came to me with their newborns and were like, this is my goals and this is what I want to do. I'm not sleep training newborns. I think that just doesn't happen. Look, nine times out of ten, people are coming to me, they are absolutely wrecked, they're exhausted, they um, yeah, sleep deprivation is absolutely set in. So I guess first of all, it's my job to I guess really appreciate that they're tired, they need support, and really just talk them through the steps before we make any plans. More about the what are your goals? Okay, this is really age appropriate, they're achievable goals. And then when we make the plan, it's a simplified plan. It's not a plan that's got 20 pages of scientific information because at that point that's not what they need. What they need is some guidance, they need a plan that's gonna suit them and their little one, and that to understand that their goals are achievable. So, yeah, I think yeah, sleep deprivation, it's not about they don't need a scientific paper from me.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Absolutely. I think one thing that we also do touch on with our mums in the mums groups is what is working for your family, right? And I had one mum that was extremely sleep deprived, it was 40 minute cycles all day, every day, all night, overnight. And at that point she was, she said, Oh, I really want to co-sleep, but but we can't do that. I said, Why can't you do that? There's safe guidelines to do co sleeping if that's something that's gonna work for you right now. And it was like a light bulb had gone on and a weight had been lifted off her shoulders because she was so overwhelmed with the opinions of society and of maybe other family members or whatever, but I reframed it of what's gonna work for your family right now. And you can address those other sleep challenges at a later date. Would you agree with that? Is that something that you agree with?

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So, yeah, absolutely. In the end, every family is different, every child is different. A lot of the time, families are like, I actually, this is what I want to do, but the babies actually, this isn't what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

That's a really interesting topic, actually. I'd never considered that too. So, okay, sorry, yeah, continue.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Absolutely. The parents need to be on board and they have their own goals. And so if something is working for them, then that's amazing. And if they're happy, that's great. Whatever's not working, then absolutely you can change it. But yeah, you definitely need to consider the child's temperament because that might not necessarily align with the parenting style. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Can you identify that? Like from all of the babies that hundreds of babies and families that you've worked with, can you really identify that?

SPEAKER_00 22:58

I find that fascinating. Because I think it it's probably it comes down to a parent wants to be quite hands-on with settling, which is understandable. And often they get to a point where they're calling me because they've been quite hands-on and it's not working anymore, right? So I've got the six-month-old baby and he's always enjoyed being rocked to sleep, and we've never had a problem. And then, oh, he doesn't, he's taking hours to settle. What nothing's changed. They've been doing the same thing, but now he's not settling, or it's taking a long time for him to settle. And okay, maybe his needs or what he wants to settle is changed, and actually, maybe he doesn't want to be rocked anymore. I can see it a lot with we start with in-room settling and we're there the whole time, and actually the baby's not falling asleep because they're too stimulated. In fact, they just want a bit of space. So it's really hard as parents to remove ourselves from that, but actually, that's what a lot of the body language is that we're getting from the the child.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Especially if you especially if they've been so used to doing it a certain way for so long, right? Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

And then suddenly they'll be like, nah, like giving the parent all this body language, like arching their back, pushing away, screaming, not going to sleep. Maybe that's not working for them anymore. Yeah, their temperament.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

So for a parent listening at 3 a.m. with a baby who won't settle, what's the one thing you want them to hear right now?

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Nothing is gonna be forever. This absolutely will change. One thing I do want them to know is that if it's not working, then there's absolutely help for you to make some changes to get a baby that is waking frequently or whatever they're awake for at 3 a.m. that they're not enjoying, they can change. Yeah, nothing is forever. And if you're happy, then that's great. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for coming today and chatting with me about all things sleep. I'm sure there's lots of topics and conversations that our listeners will want to understand so they can always reach out directly to you. So yeah, beautiful. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. If this episode resonated with you, please follow the podcast, leave a review, and share it with another mum who just might need it. We're so glad to have you part of our circle.