Birth, Pregnancy & Becoming a Mother | Sasha who is a private midwife.

In this episode of Inside Mummas Circle, Rashelle sits down with private midwife Sasha for an open and empowering conversation about pregnancy, birth and postpartum care.

Together they explore what it really means to make informed decisions during pregnancy, the differences between hospital and home birth, and why continuity of care can have such a profound impact on a mother's experience.

Sasha also shares her work as a breech birth educator, explains the importance of birth advocacy, and discusses how women can begin to process their birth experiences and reconnect with themselves after becoming mothers.

In this episode, we cover:
• Home birth and how it works
• Understanding breech birth and why education matters
• Birth choices, informed consent and advocacy
• The role of a private midwife throughout pregnancy and postpartum
• Supporting the nervous system after birth
• Healing after birth and processing birth trauma
• Closing the Bones ceremony
• Kahuna massage and Yoni massage
• Trusting your body and your intuition during pregnancy and birth

Whether you're expecting your first baby, preparing for another birth, or reflecting on your own postpartum journey, this episode offers thoughtful insights, practical guidance and reassurance that every woman deserves to feel informed, supported and heard.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with another mum who may benefit from hearing it.

Connect with Sasha:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sasha_barefoot_vibes/
Website: https://www.barefootvibes.au/
Breech Birth Podcast: https://www.barefootvibes.au/breech-birth-podcast

White Cloud Foundation

Connect with Mummas Circle:
🌸 Website: mummascircle.com
📘 Facebook Community: Mummas Circle
📺 YouTube: @MummasCircle

Connect with Mummas Circle:
🌸 Website: www.mummascircle.com
📘 Facebook Community: Mummas Circle
Instagram: @mummascircle_
📺 YouTube: @MummasCircle

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, and welcome back to another episode of Inside Mama's Circle. Today we have Sasha who is a private midwife. Thank you for coming today, Sasha. Really appreciate you being here. Thank you for having me. So I just I follow, like I've just said before, when you first got here, I follow all of your things because I find the work that you do is fascinating, empowering, super supportive of women in our community. So I would love to just hear from your perspective, the work that you do and and your why.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Yeah. I have many hats. So my primary passion and source of income, I suppose, is being a midwife. So I'm a privately practicing midwife. I predominantly do home birth. That's my passion. I'm hopefully getting access to hospitals soon with the focus to support breech and twins. So they're my passion in that space. I'm a breech educator, so I have a simulator and I teach breech workshops around Australia. And I've also created a breech birth podcast. So jump onto my podcast too. We'll add that link. So in that particular podcast, I'm interviewing women, sharing their breech birth stories and some twin stories where they've had at least one breech baby. And I've just about to release a season where I'm actually talking about breech with obstetricians and midwives who have extensive experience, like 300 or more breech births. So it's going to provide more information for the women in the community who are in that particular situation. And then on top of that, I'm a kahuna massage therapist. I do yoni massage, which is often referred to as sacral somatic therapy due to legal requirements. And yeah, I hold workshops. I do closing of the bones, workshops for women in the postnatal period, although this can be any time, and I teach how to do that as well. I've probably got other things there, but that's all that's coming to mind at the moment.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

We'll deep dive, we'll probably pull things out as we go along as well. So I'd love to hear how you got into this sort of space and this sort of industry, what took you there?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Midriffy specifically. Yeah, let's start there. Well, I was already a mother and I had three children of my four and went to the birth of my younger brother. So I think I was, I must have been 22, and witnessed his birth. And see, I saw it from a different light. When I was in it, I wasn't really paying attention to the midwives or what was going on around me. It was just in the experience. And then from this perspective, I was on the outside observing and watching what the midwives were actually doing. Whereas when I'm in labour, I'm not looking at anyone, just doing my thing. I think anyone is and yeah, the midwife kind of just handed my brother to me, which I was grossed out about, which is funny because I'd already had babies before, and I was like, Oh, okay, just holding the baby all weird, and then passed him to my mum, like she was getting comfortable. And then after I was like, Oh, that was alright, I could do that. That was not too bad. So then I looked into how to be a midwife and went down the journey of what was required.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Amazing. I think that's really fascinating, right? I think being on the outside, I saw my twin sister give birth to her first child when we were both 19. And it didn't gross me out, actually. I was like surprised that it didn't, to be honest, because I was I thought that I would be like, Oh, that's a lot. And I think that for me just sitting there and supporting her was really empowering and being able to connect with her, I think that was really lovely as well when she had her baby. So, with the many hats that you wear, would you say that midwifery and home birth support is your main passion, or what really lights you up?

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Oh, I'm pretty 50-50 with that and breach, like education. I'm really enjoying teaching breach and just going around and connecting with other midwives and OBs and learning from them in the process as well. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Can you explain to us what breach actually is? Because before I had babies and there's going to be some mums that are going to be listening to this conversation and be pregnant or etc. So I'd love to hear more about what breach actually means and what the education that you're providing and working with other healthcare providers entails.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

Yeah, so breach birth basically means babies coming bum first. So predominantly most babies will come head first vaginally when we're talking about earth. With a breach, the baby's coming bottom first. So they've decided for whatever reason. It could be a physical thing, it could be genetic, it could be unknown. So three to four percent in particular in Australia's stats, babies present breach. The access to vaginal breach birth is limited, probably I would say, over across the world, and there's a bit of a reclaiming, particularly from a midriffe perspective and woman perspective, to bring that back because the accessibility to be supported in a vaginal breach birth is limited for women in all different areas, particularly rural, regional areas.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Do you think it's because it's dangerous or perceived as a dangerous place? Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_02 4:49

There was unfortunately an already negativity toward it, and again, it comes down to lack of skills. Then there was what's commonly known as the term breach trial came out that kind of limited it even more and getting the tick of approval, okay, we just do cesareans, and it's just gone backwards from there. And so we actually have an extensive amount of research to support with good outcomes in settings where they kept their skills up. So that's the main thing is if a woman's got a breach baby and she wants a breach vaginal birth, she needs a care provider who is skilled in supporting that, not someone who has no idea what they're doing, because that's where we then have those more adverse outcomes. So that is my goal with my workshop is going around and building the skills. There's other training programs as well, but my goal with my particular workshop is going to more rural and regional areas because a lot of the time they don't get access to simulation practice. So the simulator that we use, I have it set up in an upright position because we know if a woman is upright and she has a breach birth, she is less likely to need hands-on or need intervention, or her and her baby. Because of gravity, right? Gravity, yes, the physic the ability to move, so feeling the process of labour and following her body. Her body knows where to go and what to do, and so we're less likely to have that, and the upright opens up the pelvis more as well, so that helps. So, yes, that's been my focus is the rural and regional areas. But I have been requested to go in cities, and I'm getting my foot in the door in hospitals now, so that's exciting to get in there.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

So that was going to lead to my next question. Have you seen a really positive response that people want to learn in those other healthcare industries and are open to learning about it for the best outcome for the mums for the women?

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah, absolutely. From the midwives, I'm still working on the OBs, hoping to collaborate with one next year, and hopefully that will open that door up a bit more. But I mean, at the end of the day, when we come back to the history historically of birth and pregnancy and care for women, it was by midwives and it was in the home. That's how it was. And I saw a post the other day on Home Birth Queensland. Once upon a time, birth happened at home, and I was like, oh that's nice, that's cute. And then hospital setting and medicalisation of birth came from that, and so we lost our skills and it will lost it, taken from us, however you want to perceive it. And that's why my workshop's called reclaiming breach birth, because a lot of midwives want to reclaim that skill. It is a midrafi skill because as a I mean, as a home birth midwife, I've had two surprise breach births in my practice, and it's a surprise, it's at home. There's no button on the wall to call ten people in to help and hand over to a doctor. You have to know what to do. So whether we like it or not, they will still we will still have surprise breaches where it's whether it's in a home or a hospital setting. So anyone that's attending a birth as a healthcare provider should know what to do and how to support that mother and baby.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I think that's really valuable, right? It's a skill set, like you said earlier, and having that, practicing that and learning more about what that looks like and how to support the mum properly is so important. Talking on home births and free births, I want to get into a little bit around sometimes. There's the media portrays home birth andor free births as a negative and that it's dangerous. I'd love to hear your perception on that and your opinion.

SPEAKER_02 8:11

Yes, having gone through a difficult time recently in my own practice, there is there's definitely a lot of us midwives in my area are noticing negativity and just that publicization, and it's all we're all getting pulled into one, so free birth and home birth with a midwife. So free birth, I know most of the time free birth is referred to as a woman having a birth without a Medicare, uh medical provider, so no one with medical skills or birth skills, and then a home birth is often referred to as a birth with midwives attending. However, if you're free birthing, you're at home. So I I get a bit funny about labelling them separately. It's free birth likely at home, and then there's home birth with midwives.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

I think that's good to differentiate the two a little bit though, right? For people wanting to understand what both what the differences are for both of them. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, those are kind of getting pulled, and I mean if women choose that, absolutely. Unfortunately, there are situations where women are choosing free birth because they're not being supported in the hospital setting, or they can't access a home birth midwife, and that's not fair for those women. If a woman is choosing it because that's her decision, then that's absolutely okay. That's her right to do. But yeah, there has been some negativity in both hospital and home, and it's getting plastered on social media and newspapers and all sorts of things like that, and not understanding the full story, what's the background. There's so much more to it, and there could just be a little clickbait headline, and people go, home birth is terrible, when actually there could be a lot more information in that story. And maybe the woman didn't consent to birth in the hospital, and so be it. Support the woman in her choices. At the end of the day, it is up to the woman. It's her legal right to consent or decline on the options offered to her.

SPEAKER_00 9:57

Yeah, with with the home birth, obviously the space that you're in offering support in a home birth setting, what does that look like? I'd love to hear more about what that looks like for any woman that's questioning whether they want to explore this option for them. What does that actually entail?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Good question. So most of us, I mean, some midwives work in the practice setting, so they'll have clinic rooms where you go and see them. But most of us will do home visits. Those appointments are generally an hour. So in the hospital setting in comparison, so that you have an understanding for those listening, you might have a 15-minute, 20-minute appointment. So big difference, you have that time to actually sit and connect with your care provider and get to know them in more detail. And it's about building a trusting relationship. So for me in particular, it's not just about the woman trusting me, I also want to trust her so that we both have that collaborative relationship. And so I know that if I am concerned in an emergency situation and I recommend something, she trusts me, and I trust that she will trust my judgment as well. I'm not just throwing it out there for no reason. So home visits generally last about an hour, sometimes we'll have longer, sometimes they'll be shorter. Again, it's dependent on the individual. Generalized, you might have maybe 10 antenatal visits. Some might need more, some might need less. Again, it's we always critique it based on the individual. Then for in regards to home birth, so if uh you're comfortable birthing at home and you've opted in for that and your midwife's happy to support you, then they go on call for you, usually from 37 weeks. They will organise, or most of the time we organise a second midwife, so it is a legal requirement for us to have two midwives at the home birth. So they'll go on call as well. You usually meet them antenatally. We do a what I call a birth team meeting, we bring the pool, emergency drugs go in the fridge, order oxygen if we need to sort that out just for all the potentials, and then yeah, basically wait for that phone call and arrive when it's time when you're needing that support, support you through your labour and birth. If anything arises, it's not no longer safe to be at home, then we transfer with you into the hospital in that setting and support you in that space. Some midwives have the ability to provide clinical care in the hospital space and some don't, so they act as a dualer, but they're still technically your privately practicing midwife that you've hired, so they can still provide midraphy advice and information. And then after birth, if we've both birthed at home, once baby's born, we usually stick around for that sort of four hours after, make sure you and baby are well, tell you what to expect for the next 24 hours, come back and see you the next day. And then go day by day depending on the individual. First-time mums might have a few visits in that first week, and after that it might be usually weekly. And then we can see you up to six weeks. So we can do baby head-to-toe checks and we can give vitamin K if they want vitamin K, all those sorts of things, referrals. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, amazing. So it's it is really a holistic healthcare service, really. What would you say are the benefits of home birth?

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Of home birth. Yes. When you get to get into your own bed. Most women are pretty keen on that. Yes. You can have your family around you with no concerns of them not having a seat or it being cold and uncomfortable. A lot of women I work with, if they have older children, they want their older children close by or in the space. That may change, of course, once they're in labour, they may feel otherwise. We have a backup plan for them if that's needed. We know in for low-risk women and babies, it does have better outcomes for both mothers and babies. And so, yeah, that's probably Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Because I've heard, look, and I'm not a I'm not a doctor, and this is not medical advice, but what I've heard is that sometimes you can have a lot of medical intervention and then it cascades. Whereas if you're at home, I mean they still could have medical interventions if there's issues or problems, but it's less likely. Is there less statistics around that, would you say, or probably, couldn't tell you what it is.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

I guess in the hospital it is a system. It is you at the end of the day, it is run like a business, and it is you've got beds and the beds need to be emptied, ready for the next. And so it is a bit of a process of who is in absolute need of a bed and who isn't, and it can be a bit of some women are pushed out, or if it's not a busy period, then you might actually be able to stay there for a long period of time. So it just depends on the individual setting or hospital setting. But yeah, in that comparison, I think time becomes a very prominent thing in that in the in the system setting. And so then it's we might have someone coming in for an induction tomorrow. So let's get yours on underway so that we can get you sorted and moved on to the next space so that we're ready for the next person. So it's a bit like that, whereas home birth and when we have a we can only take so many women per month, and it is their time becomes irrelevant. Yes, of course, we talk about dates and things like that, but it's really just when mother and baby well and always coming back to wellness. Is mother and baby well? Can we continue?

SPEAKER_00 14:48

And it's that holistic look as well. You're looking at it from a holistic point of view. Hearing about the support that you offer after the birth as well, is that pretty typical? And those checks and things, is that what you would traditionally do?

SPEAKER_02 15:00

Yeah, in regards to private midraphy, yes, we generally do a few visits in that first week and then weekly from there, if everything's well and breastfeeding up until the sixth week and the head-to-toe checks and things. For me, I do a closing of the bones as well. That's of course a woman can opt in or opt out, but that's my standard of care, and I usually offer that around the five-week mark, and that's about bringing her back into her body. So birth energetically is big, whether you've had a vaginal birth or cesarean, it is a big process, and often you come out of birth just focusing on baby and maybe toddler if you've got a toddler or older children, and maybe husband if he's lucky. And there's little pockets, very rare little pockets for yourself. And so it by that five-week mark, I find mum's kind of ready to work out okay, what do I need to fill my cup now? So she gets an hour of no baby and just being wrapped up, basically wrapped up like a baby, and supported, and it just gives them the woman a reminder about who she who she who is she now since birth. Who am I going to be? What is this looking like? How is this evolving? And I stress to them to find little pockets in the day to fill their cup, whether it's a cup of tea for two minutes of peace. It might be if it's longer, great. But if it's only two minutes, that's it's the intention behind it, or having a shower on your own and just simplifying, but the intention. It's stuff that you want to do anyway. But the intention behind it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah, and I think putting it out there and putting that in your mind that this is important as well. Yeah. We have Chantel from the Australian School of Meditation and Yoga come and chat with our mums every term. She's absolutely beautiful, and she talks about those micro wellness moments and whether it's getting lavender and rubbing it in your hands and smelling it, deep breaths, four in, six out, taking a moment, just gentle stretching, those sorts of micro moments I think are just as important as anything else. So finding that little space. I love hearing about home birth. It was something that wasn't really an option for me. I had C-sections and had obstetric cholestasis, which was liver issues through my pregnancies, and but it always fascinated me around home birth and what that looks like. And I said to my girls recently, because I've had I've got three teenage girls, I said, Oh, who would want me to be in the birth? It's just a really curious question. They're teenagers, they'll maybe have kids, maybe they won't. And two out of the three said, Absolutely, I'd want you in there because you're such an advocate for birth and support. And I think that's really refreshing. I was really excited that two out of the three were doing all right. I'm doing okay. I'm hedging my best. So that may change in the future, but I was really thankful that I that they perceive that as well because I am such an advocate for birth for whatever the woman feels that they need in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

So it's just having that other voice. So in making sure as you're going into birth, whether it's in home or hospital, having someone on your team who knows what you want and what you do want, and what's your hard nose, what are you re willing to negotiate so that they can advocate and support you in that space.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And I think often women think that's their husband, and but I what I've found being in a few friends and siblings' births, that the husbands get quite overwhelmed. Yeah. They're quite overwhelmed seeing their partner in pain, and that's so normal. So they any of their sort of wishes or their hard nose kind of gets forgotten or out the window because they are so overwhelmed by the medical system, by them, by their partner being in pain and or sleep deprivation or whatever. So I think that's a really important piece is having that advocate that's outside of maybe the that space, that partnership, right? To be able to advocate exactly for what they want.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Yeah, and on that, like with the masculine, so we all have feminine and masculine within us. Men obviously tend to have a bit more masculine than what women do, and we tend to have more feminine. The masculine wants to fix. And so if a woman's in pain, it is natural for their partner, if being if they're male, to feel like, I need to fix this. So what does that look like? And if they don't have a good understanding about birth and that you just have to sit in it and move through that fire, and that's okay, then they might be the one that goes, Oh, do you need an epigral or do you need that? And that might not be what that woman wants. She might be wanting, No, I need you to just tell me that I've got this. So having those conversations before beforehand with your partner, what do you actually need them to say or do, or if it's shut up, then that's fine as well. And then whereas the women we can come from that softer perspective, but then also we tend to understand a bit more about this is hard. I mean, you can have the opposite as well. I mean, I've I've known mothers of women that I've worked with that are just can't bear seeing their daughters in pain. Yeah. And so maybe that's not the person to be in there because they have to be able to sit in it with you. Doesn't necessarily mean that means touch or anything, it's just being present, and that's the biggest thing that you can gift someone in that space.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, and I think having yeah, that calming energy which I'm feeling from you right now, I think is really important in those moments too, right? When it is really hard and you are questioning your capability, right, as a woman, but knowing that your body is built for it, which is amazing. I'd love to hear about an experience that you've had with a woman of family, and it's giving you the reason why you've done what you do and why you continue to do what you do.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

First one that sort of come to my mind is a woman had booked with me, she'd had a cesarean wanting a V back with her second planned V back at home, and unfortunately it didn't eventuate. We transferred, had another cesarean, and just being by her side to for me, I advocate with women and I talk to my clients. If we transfer in a cesarean, and this I think this is important for women to know, anyone listening, advocate for yourself as to have your own support person. So a lot of the time they go, yes, just one person comes in, so the partner comes in. But if we're going in because we're concerned about baby's well-being, there's a high chance that baby's gonna go to the nursery, and then dad goes with the baby, and then mum's left on her own with no support person.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Hi, that was me.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

That happens a lot. And so we were very she, I should say, she's a very strong woman, and she pushed to have that person and upstairs in the birth suite, yep, no worries, sure, okay, we can do that. Got downstairs and he says, Oh no, you can't do that. And she went, I'm not going in without my midwife and my partner. And then Oh, I just got goosebumps.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

I just got goosebumps.

SPEAKER_02 21:14

So you have to, and it's hard, she's now on the bed in a vulnerable state, and then they tried to change the rules when actually we'd just been told, yeah, we're all good, let's go. And because she agreed, she said upstairs, I'm not going down without both of them. So they negotiation, okay, cool, we'll make it work, and then tried to change the game when we got down there. So anyway, got in there, and sure enough, baby had to go, and she ended up with a really complex cesarean. And if I hadn't been there, very likely she would have ended up under general anaesthetic. But because we were able to sit there and talk and keep her distracted, and we even were able to FaceTime dad and look at baby on the phone, just made that care so much more different and better for her. And postnatally recovery, instead of coming out of a general anesthetic, she's coming out. Of just the spinal, but just because of the process, it was taking longer than expected. And yeah, so for her, that was even though it wasn't the ideal birth experience that she was wanting to achieve, she was able to do it with support. And that I mean that for me was a big thing. Dad, we discovered we went down that path again with the next one, unfortunately, same thing, and discovered that dad had a bit of trauma. So we ended up doing closing the bones for both mother and dad with her third. Mum really wanted to do that for him. It was funny, I'll never forget her. She's like he was like, No, I'm alright. She's I want to close your bones. So it was really sweet.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

He's probably going, What? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

And we actually he really enjoyed it. So it was cool to just and to journey with them through those two experiences. And again, it wasn't a vaginal birth that she was hoping for. She ended up with another two cesareans, but we did it together in a supportive relationship together. And yeah, I just yeah, those sort of experiences made me go, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

I think I love that so much, bringing that awareness around your partner, the partner as well, that he'd had some trauma from that. Because I do think that they get forgotten sometimes, right? Or they just get on with it. The dads just get on with it. And to hear that he was then able to have some support from you as well in that space, I think that's really amazing. Wow, that's awesome. So I wanted to now touch on do you offer any additional support if they didn't birth with you? Is that something that you offer or that you recommend?

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Yeah, I offer postnatal care. So separately, if they're not doing home birth or hospital birth support, if they want just antenatal or just postnatal or just both of them together, then I absolutely do that as a package. And again, same sort of setting, appointments in your home and critiqued, and we just collaborate with the hospital sending them updates. So I've just recently had a client that's done that, so they're birthing in the hospital, and then once they're home, I will then provide postnatal care up to six weeks. Yes?

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I love that. No, I wanted to the reason why I asked that, so I'll go back a step because sometimes my brain works a bit too fast, is because I had a mum who birthed at the hospital, which was fine, but she really struggled postpartum. Really struggled. She came to the mum's group and she was connecting with other mums, but she recognised the things that she wants to put in place next time after she has a next her next child and support postpartum. She's got to invest more time and effort and energy, not effort but energy into that financially as well, because she recognised that was the gap that she missed and it really impacted her mental health and wellness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

So it's Yeah, I mean again depends because you've mentioned so doula, just so for people listening, understanding, so midwife, like I'm doing clinical so I can write referrals for blood tests. I mean, pregnancy we can do ultrasounds, things like that. If a woman needs postnaly psych psychologist or referrals in that format. I know if anyone for anyone not aware, White Cloud Foundation does meal services. So if you've got mental health concerns, your care provider can refer you for meal deliveries, really good to know. So things like that a woman might not necessarily know about or think of, or family members might not know about. And whereas a dollar, they can't necessarily do those sorts of referrals, but they can do more help around the house, like putting loads of washing on, preparing meals, if you've got older children looking after them, so it's a different sort of layer. So it depends on what the woman needs in that setting.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

I think that's great. Thank you for the clarification of the do. So that's actually really helpful for anyone that's listening that might need additional support. So I appreciate that. I want to hear a little bit from your perspective, how does the nervous system get impacted by birth and early motherhood, and how do we start to heal it?

SPEAKER_02 25:34

Yeah, good question. That's if you need to heal it.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah. Because you just assume that you would, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Because birth can be based on birth trauma reporting rates, then yes, most people would assume that. I mean the nervous system, so when we're going into birth or pregnancy alone first, start at the start, you've got to think a lot of women are thinking about the birth, and that's I mean, I do internal education as well, and a lot of the focuses on labour and birth, and then the baby arrives and go, Oh, what do I do now? Doesn't matter how much we tell them, they forget that bit and they just focus on labour and birth. So if you've got history of anxiety and things like that, this is where that can play up, and more so for women, particularly in pregnancy, because they're thinking about all that the birth, I've got to avoid this, I've got to avoid that, I want this, I want that, and setting those expectations and perceptions and things like that. But when we are anxious, we are thinking about past or present. So I really encourage my clients to focus on presence, and that can be as simple as focusing on your breath, just all smelling lavender, like you mentioned before, and that can make a big difference. Yes, we want to have a bit of a plan so we talk about here's the things that might be offered, here's the potentials, here's your risks and benefits, blah, blah, blah. We go through all of that so they have an idea, but then coming back to presence and practicing that daily so that they are in it. Because at the end of the day, once you're in labor, that's all that matters. When you're in labor, if you start thinking about, oh, I've done this many contractions, or they look, you look at the time and go, oh my god, it's been this many hours, how many more hours do I have? That's when you lose your mindset and your focus, and that's when it becomes harder because you're anxious, you're thinking about past and present instead of being past and future, instead of being present. When you're present, nothing else matters. And that's when you enter labour and birth, you enter a time capsule. I always think of time just being irrelevant, like it just disappears. Hospital settings a bit different when you are a bit on the clock, unfortunately, and it's hard, you a lot of people don't like you covering the clocks in the room. I've done that, haven't you? Maybe. I may have recommended it sometimes. But the at the end of the day, you've got to come back to wellness. And yes, we do our checks as midwives or doctors. Is mum well, is baby well? Okay, then we've got time. We can keep going. So for me in a home birth setting, that's what I'm coming back to. Is mum well, is baby well? And yes, we'll be mindful of time like we had prolonged rupture of membranes, so the waters broke a while ago. Then we have the conversations, here's your increased risk of in of infection, here's the recommendations, here's the information, risks and benefits, you make a decision, and then we just continue to observe and make sure that both mother and baby are well.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

And that helps with that nervous system regulation, right? And post-birth as well, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Yeah, so post-birth in that again still encourage the presence, and that's where the closing the bones can be really good to reconnect with that self and what do you need to be present and fill your cup. Nothing makes you more present than looking at your crying baby and working out, okay, what's wrong with you right now? But then it can be like, oh, are they gonna do that again? So then you can think about the part oh, we've I was up all night, so trying to come back to remembering that each 24 hours is always different. So if you've had a hard 24 hours, it doesn't mean the next 24 hours is gonna be hard. So it's just one day at a time. That's probably the best way to start your postpartum, is just one day at a time, and that's how I provide the education is okay, for the next 24 hours, this is how many whee's and poos we expect from maybe. This is what to expect with feeding, this is what you need to do for yourself, and then we'll come back the next day. Okay, how'd you go? All right, this is what to expect for the next 24 hours. So it's just little snippets at a time, otherwise it becomes overwhelming if you try and give lots of information all at once.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, no, that's really true. I think, yeah, that 24-hour period is holistically looking at it from that snapshot. I think that's fabulous. So, moving on from and wellness in that space, can you tell us a little bit about the other modalities that you practice, the kahuna massage, and how it supports mums and what that looks like?

SPEAKER_02 29:34

So, kahuna massage is a Hawaiian traditional style massage using hands and forearms predominantly. It is very flow. I think of it like a flow-like state. I have a playlist that I just put on shuffle and it rules the way. So if it's a more rhythmic song, then it will be more rhythmic. If it's really slow, then it'll be really slow. So I find it tends to play whatever that individual needs. Kahunas for both women and men, I predominantly massage women because of the space that I'm in, that's what I what ends up coming knocking on my door. And it's a really great way to reset the nervous system and just soften and slow. And yeah, if you've not experienced a kahuna, I highly recommend they're my favourite. I feel like a ragdoll on the table. And for me, my particular table that I use has what what I call a trapdoor in it, so I can take support pregnant women on their bellies, and it's quite comfortable. I had someone yesterday actually, she's 28-week mark, and she was able to comfortably with a wedge as well. Again, it depends on the woman how far along, how comfortable, and they can line their belly. Yeah, beautiful, which is nice because I found I remember when I was pregnant, I wedged lots of pillows trying to make a hole for my belly to try to get comfortable, right?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

And over here, and that sounds fabulous. And what about the yoni massage? So we actually had one of our relationships and sex therapists come and chat with our mums. She actually comes quite regularly, which usually they come, she comes in the four to twelve months when the mums have gotten to know each other a little bit more, so it's a little bit more of a private topic. But I find that a lot of the mums are wanting to open up and talk a little bit more about that in that space because it's a safe space, there's no judgment we talk about relationships and communication, but she also does yoni massage, and I wanted to touch on that topic and what it is and why it's beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

Yes, everyone wants to talk about uni massage, every woman wants to, I should say, although men are probably curious too. So yoni massage is I so the way that I'm do it, it is floor work for me. I have a mat, so everyone's probably slightly different, but the way that you would sit when you're preparing for the yoni massage itself, it is easier on floor. So for me, it starts with a full back massage, so I kind of bring in a bit of kahuna movement. Although I did my training for that prior, I've realized oh, I actually already was doing that a little bit, so it worked quite well. But the touch is different, so yes, there's flow movements, but there's light touch, there is holding, so stillness. It's an opportunity for a woman to completely be held with no expectations, so there's no expectation to have to give back, it just gets to receive. Prior to that, we do an undressing ceremony, so I have processes and questions that I get the woman to share with me prior, and then we can sit down and have a chat at the beginning. And it's things like what's your relationship with your body? How are you as a woman? How do you identify? Have you got history of trauma? Things like that. I predominantly get women in that sort of menopausal era or in it already in it or going into it. That's where I think a lot of women find the confidence to say yes to a yoni massage. Prior to that, we're in our motherhood phase of estrogen and pleasing everyone else. Then we go into our MAGA phase and go, fuck you all. I'm going to get a yoni massage.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

And everyone's like, What?

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Yes, yeah. That's where I see those women where they're changing and they're shifting and going, something is happening in my body, and they want to understand themselves better. And so we do an undressing ceremony and they literally take off each layer, and with each layer, whether it's an earring or a bra or a top, whatever, like each single thing that they're removing, they share out loud what they want to let go of. It could be multiple things in one. If they've got a lot to let go of, that's fine. And then they lie down, we do the massage on the back, get them to roll over to the massage on the front. And so it does include buttocks and breast massage if they're comfortable. Always check in with that prior. However, a bum massage is awesome if you haven't had that. It's a yes from me. And then once we've to finish, once I finish massaging the front, I then ask permission to sit between their legs, and I'm not touching their yoni, just getting into the position. Lots of cushions for comfort and everything as well. And then if the woman's comfortable, again, there's a lot of intuitive guidance throughout this process of knowing when to ask, reading the body language of what's happening from for the woman as well. And if she gives consent, then I massage the outside. And so for some women, they might step into this experience wanting yoni mapping and understanding their body better because they've not been explained what a clear like where their clitoris is, where their G-spot is, all those sorts of things. So it could be as simple as that, and then just going through massage after that, or the woman's just there to experience pleasure, and that's totally okay as well, or just wanting to connect with that part of their body that they felt haven't connected for a long time. After massaging the outside, if they're if they've said yes, of course, if they say no, then I don't massage there. And we talk about that, we move through that. Where is that feeling in your body? What does that look like? And often emotion when there's a no, there's usually some kind of emotions. We may move through it, we may not. If I've done the outside, then I'll ask consent to massage the inside. And again, if it's a no, we stay where we are and we go move through that, what's going on for you. And yeah, as I said, in the inside, it could be mapping. There can be pleasure for some women, and or it could just be a really nice massage. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Just being able to relax into it. I think what you're the biggest thing for that I've taken away from this, so I've actually had an early massage, and we actually talked about that and we opened up in that space around that, and a lot of the mums were like, Oh, thank you for sharing that. And I think for me it was to just be able to figure out my body now. Yeah. Because three babies, missed miscarriage in between there and hysterectomy three years ago. So there's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

It's also like for women who've had Caesarean's connection with the scar, and I've had a woman who doesn't touch it, not hadn't touched it and didn't want to look at it. And so that was where we focused was working on that to love her body again.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

Yeah, yeah, and I completely agree. I think it's a really interesting thing to consider and to explore for yourself, which I think is actually super valuable because we are emotional beings and we hold our emotions, right? Or and I think I've heard that we often as women hold our emotions in our womb a lot. And so then having that sort of exploration around that is is really cathartic. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yeah, I do a lot of chat with the women about their chakras as well. So if we've got so in the questions they've answered, maybe they've said something about feeling abandoned by father or partner or someone, mother even, and then I'll talk to them about the chakras that are connected with that and where to do the work because the energetic self is going to play out in the physical self.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_02 36:31

That helps as well.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

We should definitely do a podcast around that as well next time when we've got more time. I would want I just want to ask another question. What would you say to a mum who is carrying something from her birth experience that she hasn't been able to process?

SPEAKER_02 36:46

What would I say to her? It would depend if she's ready to receive it. Woman's not ready to receive, then that's fine. I will, it's just made me think of a story that I always think of with this. I had no reason to go into a furniture store, but for what I think I was killing time. And as I walked up to this furniture store, there was a whirly wind, and I was like, Oh, that's cool, literally in front of me as I walked forward. And I went in, started looking at some cushions, and this other woman was looking at cushions, be it in like her, I don't know, maybe her 50s. And we grabbed the same cushion. She went, Oh no, sorry. And I'm like, No, that's fine, I'm just looking. And then she said something about her daughter having a baby. She's in hospital and she's having a baby. I was like, Oh, I'm a midwife, and then she just literally verbally vomited her birth story of her daughter at me, and I was like, Oh wow, okay. And she's she doesn't want me in there, and so she's worried about her daughter, and I literally just gave her a hug, and I could see she needed to tell that story, and she is still very much in it. But would she have been ready however many years ago? Like she was ready to let that out now because now she's concerned that the same thing's gonna happen for a daughter. I can totally understand why her daughter didn't want her there because she was holding on to that. Daughter could sense that maybe. But yeah, at the end of the day, a woman has to be ready to do the work on whatever it is that she's holding on. So what I would say to them, it's really gonna depend on what it is. Is it anxiety, is it anger? There's nothing like having a good scream when you've got some anger, pent up anger. I love doing breathwork sessions. I did actually do one on the weekend and I've got some anger and I had a good scream. So if you need to have a scream, if you need to have a cry, like it's if you need a hug, ask for a hug. So it really depends on the woman and where she's at in her grief or whatever she's moving through.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

Beautiful, beautiful. And what's one thing you want every mum listening to take away from today?

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Trust your body. Yeah, trust your body and your intuition. It increases in pregnancy, so really listening to that and be informed, educate yourself. Don't rely on others to do all the work. You cannot be fully informed without doing that yourself.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

I think and we tend to spend a lot more time researching what the birth can look like, what this, what's the out negative outcomes without actually sitting in that and listening to our body and understanding what can really happen and what's amazing and what we're capable of.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

Yes, and I think that's the best thing with decision making. The brain likes to analyse things. So if you're being like, say you're post-dates and you're being recommended to have an induction, you've gone through all what risk of stillbirth, all that sort of stuff, yes, all of that can be fearful. That's when we get in our mind. Try if you've got the time, which most of the time you do, sleep on it, wake up in the morning and go, okay, how does it actually feel for me if I made the decision to have an induction? Or how does it feel for me to wait and have a CDG or an ultrasound? Or what's the sort of negotiation? So sleeping on it, sitting on it, and going with your gut instinct, what feels good in your gut or right in your gut. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for sharing. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. If this podcast resonated with you, please feel free to leave a review, share with a mum that might need it, and we're so glad to have you part of our inner circle.