Chiropractic Care for Babies: What Every New Mum Should Know | Dr Jolene Cooney

Many parents have questions about chiropractic care for babies, but few understand what it actually involves.

In this episode of Inside Mummas Circle, Rashelle sits down with Dr Jolene Cooney from Ohana Chiropractic & Wellbeing to unpack the science behind chiropractic care for mums and babies, common misconceptions, and why nervous system regulation plays such an important role in a child's development.

From colic and feeding difficulties to flat head syndrome, sleep and developmental milestones, Dr Jolene explains how chiropractic care focuses on supporting the nervous system rather than simply "cracking backs."

In this episode:

✨ What chiropractic care for babies actually looks like
 ✨ Why babies are never "cracked"
 ✨ Common reasons parents seek chiropractic care
 ✨ Colic, feeding challenges and flat head syndrome
 ✨ The importance of nervous system regulation
 ✨ Why caring for mum is just as important as caring for baby
 ✨ How early intervention can support long-term development
 ✨ The power of connection and building your village

Whether you're expecting your first baby or already navigating the early years, this episode will leave you with a better understanding of your baby's development and why supporting your own wellbeing matters too.

Because every mum deserves a village. 🤍

Connect with Dr Jolene
www.ohanachiropractic.com.au
Facebook | Instagram

Connect with Mummas Circle:
🌸 Website: www.mummascircle.com
📘 Facebook Community: Mummas Circle
Instagram: @mummascircle_
📺 YouTube: @MummasCircle

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi and welcome back to another episode of Inside Mama's Circle. Today we have Jolene Cooney from Ahana Chiropractic and Wellbeing chatting with us all about chiropractic care for mum and bub and what that looks like. Thank you so much for coming, Jolene. We really appreciate you coming here today.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Thanks, Roselle. Love being here and I'm excited to see what comes out of this.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I want to firstly start because we have had a professional and a personal relationship for many, many years. And I think the more that I learn about chiropractic care from you and your team, it just blows me away. So I think first I want to take a few steps back and hear about your journey into chiropractic care and your why.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

My journey began when I was about 12. My family moved to Brisbane, and I have an aunt here in Brisbane who's a chiropractor. Before that, none of us knew what chiropractic was or had ever been to one. Moved from a small town to Brisbane and just in and she also specialises in children. And so for whatever reason, we all started under care. I guess it's family, they recommended it. And I loved it. From there, I end up becoming her receptionist on a Saturday morning when I was a teenager. It was a great job. I loved seeing people come in, they were happy, they were getting great results, and I just followed basically in my aunt's footsteps. She is a low-force chiropractor, and I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit more. So for me, chiropractic was never around manipulation or cracking, like zero. So as I then progressed into going, oh, I'm going to be like her, I'm going to do this as a career, then kind of learning and going to uni, it was something completely different to what I thought it was. But now I understand, you know, all the different elements, all the different styles, and why I'm passionate about talking with you, Rochelle, and other people, because a lot of people have one experience with a chiropractor and think that's what chiropractic is, and it can be many, many, many different things and many different forms.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I think that's so important. I have a lot of people go, uh, I've been to a chiropractor, I didn't like it. And so I often use the analogy, well, if you went to a hairdresser and you didn't like it, would you not try and find a new hairdresser? And many people go, Oh, yeah, thinking about that in that perspective, because not one size fits all. You're not going to gel with everyone, and not all chiropractors are the same. You know, they don't all practice in the same style. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah, and it's the the biggest frustration I suppose I have calling myself a chiropractor sometimes because there is an overwhelming idea out there that it is just cracking bones or putting things back into place, and nothing could be further from the truth for me and the way I practice, and the way a lot of my colleagues practice as well. So I don't know, bad branding happens somewhere along the line. Unfortunately, yeah, we we're held to that unlike any other profession, any other health profession, even and doctor, dentist, optometrist, physio, people have a bad experience with any of those for whatever reason. They will absolutely just try someone else for whatever reason in the world of chiropractic, it's like, no, I tried it, I know what that is, and that's not for me. So that's a bit of a shame. And hopefully we can dispel some of that today.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah, I would love that. So my first experience with chiropractic care was when Mia was, and we never grew up with chiropractic care in my family. It wasn't really something that we were exposed to. Interestingly, when my my oldest daughter at eight was diagnosed with scoliosis at dancing, she had the physiocam, they were doing a workshop, and she noticed that she was, you know, sort of leaning to a certain way. And then when she did sort of like a backbend, it was sort of off. So then we were then scooted off to get like an x-ray and sort of diagnosed with mild scoliosis at eight years old. And they said, You go to a chiropractor because they crack backs. And that was that was my first introduction to chiropractic care. So from there, then I was so thankful that I got recommended to come to Ahana all those years ago, what probably 10 years ago now. And so for us, learning about the entirety of chiropractic care, which is not just cracking backs, I think has been a really amazing experience for us. So I'd love to hear a bit more about the kind of chiropractic care that you offer at Ahana.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I guess if I use maybe a bit of an analogy or catchphrase, when I went through uni, one of the lecturers said chiropractic is based on structure, but structure governs function, and of the two, function is more important. So, yes, there's a lot of structural issues, and we're using a structural in, if you will, but where our mindset is is functionality, like what is functioning in the nervous system, more importantly. How is the brain talking to the body and the body talking back to the brain? So it's actually all about communication, internal communication. The science behind it actually gets really in-depth, so in depth that sometimes it's actually hard to then have a conversation without being, how do I explain this without using all these big neuro words? Which when we then dwindle it right down, makes it too simple and sounds like we're cracking your back. So trying to find that middle sweet spot is forever the challenge in in this profession. But you know, yes, scoliosis, for example, in of its own can be can be a structural problem only and certainly not mild, but if it's severe, like you're gonna actually have severe things, things aren't gonna work as well, you're not gonna breathe as well, all that kind of stuff. But more importantly, with that that curvature or you know, things changing, that's essentially blocking communication. And just like in life and relationships, poor communication is not good ever. We really do need that brain and that body to be synchronized and telling each other what to do properly at all times. That then goes from things like movement and pain to uh let's say it's in the lower back, that curvature. Well, where do those nerves go? Yes, they go into the pelvis and into the legs, but they also have the branches that go into the bowel, into the uterus, into all these other areas. So I guess for me, the beauty of the Miracles chiropractic is all these other things we see change. And we're not aiming to do that necessarily, and um, you know, we certainly don't profess, oh, we can cure this, but when you've been in practice, like I've been in practice 25 years, the amount of things I see change and get excited about and then share with with patients is really exciting. It's really an exciting field, and as the research catches up to explain why, um the better for everyone.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Yeah. I think that's absolutely amazing. With your credentials, I remember we had one mum's group and one in particular a woman was said, Oh, well, they they're they're not real doctors, or they're not real, uh, they don't they don't really train, or you know, that sort of that misconception around perhaps many allied health professionals. So just let's take a step back for a moment and what kind of study and credentials do chiropractors and in particular pediatric chiropractors have?

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Yeah, that's a good question, because I have studied for so long I forget people think that I went to the shed for a weekend or something. I don't know. So, yes, it's a double degree to become a chiropractor, so an undergraduate degree or a bachelor of science or a bachelor of chiropractic science, and then a master's degree, which is another two years. So it's a minimum of five years in Australia. It's probably different in you know New Zealand or America or other countries potentially. Then once you graduate, you can see all people, like you can see children and you can see sports and geriatrics and you know go into all the different fields, but like all fields, of course, the more stuff you do, the better you get in that. So there is in Australia an advanced diplomate in advanced pediatric chiropractic, that's another two years. So you're minimum looking at you know seven years formal study. And then just like everyone who is a health practitioner, you are governed by APRA, and that means you have to do continuously study. Basically, you have to do at least 25 years every 25 hours every year. 25 years every year. That's what I know. You're busy, you're busy, I get it. So that's in terms of reading research, articles, meetings, conferences, seminars, that kind of stuff. So you're actually always actively learning when you're a health professional. You don't just do your degree and then move into practice or or a hospital, whatever field you're working in, and that's it, set and forget. That's just not how it works. Things are always evolving, new information's always coming out, new research is coming out. Yeah, there's a lot of study, and you know, it is equivalent to the study like osteopaths and more than actually a physio hours-wise. So it's interesting that that concept that you're not trained is out there when there is an awful lot.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, yeah. And I definitely sort of say that to our mums too, when they question people's credentials or study. And I actually say that is a really, really good question, and you should find out from any healthcare professional that is working with you or your child their credentials. And in particular, and that's why I will always find pediatrically trained chiropractors that come and chat with our groups because I think that it's so important to make sure that you have the right credentials, that you are giving the right advice and supporting the mums in our groups as well. So I'm I'm a huge advocate for that, and also mums being an advocate and finding out that information for themselves too. So I would love to chat a bit more about some of the amazing things that you get excited about in your practice because I love hearing these stories. I will tell, I'll just tell you my story first that's made me that blew me away. And you're a pivotal part of this. Uh, when one of my children was just a little bit out of sorts, I think she was about 10 and she was just, you know, moody, combative, a little bit just not herself. And I remember chatting with you and saying, Oh, she's just not herself. And I remember you saying, Oh, she broke her toe. And okay, when's her next adjustment? And so we bought her and she was actually coming in the next day. And I think you you did like your normal adjustment, but you also added some red light therapy, some input, something else. Like I was just in awe of what you were doing. Complete trust and faith because you are the expert. And I remember going home and she walks in and she goes, What are we having for dinner? And I said, Oh, having chicken parmagiana, which I knew she didn't like, so she was probably not going to be happy about it. She's like, Oh, okay, well, I'm just gonna go clean my room, so just let me know when dinner's ready and I'll and I'll come out. Literally, I think I messaged you and said, I'm coming every day. Because that that blew me away. So that sort of response from chiropractic care really blew me away. So I'd love to hear more from what you see in practice or something that's really excited you.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yeah, so that in particular around an injury. So when there's an injury, and from memory, that was just like a stub toe or something like that. But if I take it next level, like a broken bone. So you have you have knowledge from learning and then you have knowledge from life. So my son, he broke his arm at one stage. And then I have studied a lot in in the world of functional neurology. So what that means is is when there's an area that's not working because it's injured, you're not using it as much, a joint in particular, there is lots of cells in joints called proprioreceptors. So they're one of the main ways that your brain knows that's part of my body and gets information. So when that goes offline, there's a whole communication channel offline. And then if it's one-sided, that's then one side of the brain that's offline. So what was going on with with your daughter and what I saw with my son over a terrible year of lots of surgeries with a broken arm, was you end up getting a left-right brain balance issue. And the left and right brain have different strengths and challenges, and so when you go stronger into one side, there is often some things you notice in your kid. They just seem off, they're not themselves. So, on top of chiropractic care to balance out the body, make sure everything's working. I will then introduce some brain balance work, which will be stimulation through usually some sort of vibration. We use a tool called Resimax. Sometimes we'll also use some red light laser therapy directly on that side of the brain. You can also use smell, sight, um, sound as well. So that world, that brain balance world is really cool. So that can be from injury. Some kids that may have diagnoses, one of the many, many de-diagnoses I call them, there could be an element of a brain balance issue there as well. So, what's exciting about chiropractic for me is it's not just one thing, it isn't just structural, it's very functional, it's very neurological. And so for me, it's about being a detective, a CIA agent, like going in and going, where's the disconnect and why is it happening? Which actually starts with a really good, thorough history and listening to all the things, like there's nothing that's not important. And you know, I was just lucky, I know you, and I'm you know, you probably shared that she had an accident or hurt herself, so I kind of quickly went, Oh, well, that's interesting. Has it been since then? Yep. Okay, let's see what that's about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

That just blew me away. That honestly, I just went, ha. Yep, I'm learning more and more all the time. I would love to hear more about what, and because obviously we we bring your you and your team in to chat with our mums postpartum. And I think again, there's a lot of fear that can sometimes be associated with having chiropractic care done on babies. So I would love to hear a few things around what a new mum can expect when they're coming and bringing their baby in and how it can be beneficial for them. So let's start with that because I want to deep dive into this a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 13:12

So, my this is where I need my big pink elephant um toy. Big pink elephant. The very first thing I always say is your baby will not be cracked, their neck will not be yanked around, because ultimately that's the main fear. It's gonna be physical, it's gonna be harsh, it's gonna be dangerous. All of that's not true. Then I go on to explain that the very first thing you do is fill out obviously some forms, and then you come in and we have a nice long conversation. That can be probably usually up to half an hour by the time we deep dive into how you fell pregnant, the quality of your pregnancy, you know, were there any interventions, were you happy, were you working, you know, were there any life challenges happening for you? Then we go all through, you know, labour, how did it start? Was it natural? Was it induced? If it was induced, how was it induced? How did that progress? All the different stages of labor, the style of delivery, was it, you know, were there any forceps, font tous, what was that first couple of hours like? That's really important for us in terms of understanding how baby was, you know, were they having to did you get that beautiful skin on skin, two-hour cocooning moment where they just got to do all their normal reflexes and establish some feeding, or were they whisked off to special care unit or intensive care unit? And we just go through every stage. So, you know, first six weeks, what was that like? Were they happy? Were they content? Were they feeding? Were they not? Then we go into obviously how old the child is developmental milestones. Could they roll, sit, crawl? Did they do it both ways? Did they do it evenly? So lots and lots and lots and lots of questions in terms of all those things, health things, when were they ill? Have they been ill? Have they had any medications? Have they had any surgeries? And what we're trying to decide and trying to figure out is the amount of challenges or traumas they've had. So we're looking at physical traumas, chemical traumas, and mental emotional traumas that are in and around them. Hopefully they don't have too many, well, they're really little. And each one of those things is, for want of a better word, an insult into their nervous system. And birth is a massive physical event, especially in the Western world where a lot of assistance is now given during birth for lots of different reasons. So birthing's it's a big journey, and there's a lot that can happen that uh starts to imprint how they're gonna then function. So history takes a long time. We then do a range of examinations, which is hands-on orthopedic neurological testing, as well as some scans. So um we in Ohana anyway, use some some technology to do some scans, some heart rate variability, thermography. And all of this then comes together. So by the time we've done the most thorough history and examination you could possibly, which is exactly what every parent says, I cannot believe how much you've asked and done, like they're always blown away. From there, we can piece together, okay, this is what's going on and why, and or you know what, we're not the right fit for you, this is what's going on, and you need to see an LC or a tongue tie person or a whatever person. So, of course, we're only going to help if we can't help. We would then verbalize and show, I usually show on a little little toy or doll this is what it's gonna look like. Because even after all that, parents, you know, definitely trust you, but they're still worried. And we go from worry to oh, that's it, pretty quickly. Like it is so gentle. Most parents go into oh, that's all you go to, that's all it is, pretty, pretty fast. So there's just a lot of just talking it out. Nothing's done without consent of care. So, you know, as we're talking through at any stage, if a parent or mum or dad or any of the carers in the room are like, I'm not actually comfortable with that, then of course we stop. We're not just we're not gonna grab them suddenly do all this stuff without talking it through and getting consent, just like every health professional should do as well. So that's the first visit. The second visit we then go over it all again, because there's usually a lot we owe because we we see children with lots of challenges, there's usually a lot of information and a lot of new information parents haven't heard before as well. So in the second visit, we kind of rehash and go, okay, this was the highlight reel of the history, this was the highlight reel of the examination, this is what we piece together, this is what it's diagnosed or called, this is what we need to do about it. We make a thorough care plan. So this is what we need to do, this is how many times, this is how many weeks, months, whatever's going on, these are the things you need to do at home, this is another professional you need to check in with as well, and we put an actual care plan together so they understand the entirety of what's going on and is expected for outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah. I think that that's really important because I think again, that misconception of we come, we go, that's it. And it's 15 minutes and you crack the baby and and that's it. I've had some mums actually say, Oh, my husband's not comfortable with with bringing the baby. So I think with your conversation around bring your partner, both parents are involved, both parents can see exactly what we're doing. I think also letting parents know that bubs will cry, and that's normal because that's how they're gonna communicate, right? They're going, This is a new scary person, I don't know this person, and you're not scary, but you know, this person I don't know, I'm going to cry. Or I might feel uncomfortable in this position slightly because I'm not used to it, therefore I'm gonna cry. And that's normal and that's okay. And mums and dads can get a little bit distressed by that. But I think it's important to let them know at the outset that's okay, they are normal, they're gonna cry. Some some babies, not all, and the pressure that you put on them is literally the pressure that you put on a tomato, right? To check.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

Tomato overcut, I we often say, yeah. And yeah, look, if there's a little one who's who's had quite a traumatic birth, unfortunately they are probably in pain. And look, they've probably come in because they cry all the time anyway. But the very first thing I say before I examine a baby is there is a good chance this baby's gonna cry. My way to deal with that, like it actually doesn't bother me. Sometimes parents are worried that the child's in pain, but they're also worried what everyone else is gonna think. So I'm just straight up, it doesn't bother me, this is what I do. I'm just gonna go as quickly, as thoroughly but as quickly as I can. However, at any stage you want me to stop and you want to pick them up and nurse them, please just tell me and do that. But there's also lots of tricks and things we can do to help we try and make baby as comfortable as possible. So sometimes I'll actually assess them on mum's lap or laying on mum's chest or dad's chest. We don't actually have to physically take them away. If they're a really distressed babba, there's a whole bunch we're gonna do and work around and sometimes space it out. Not so much with a baby, they're they're actually pretty easy babies. It's more the the the toddler to the two-year-old, three-year-old, four-year-old who's maybe got lots of sensory issues and that kind of stuff. So we we kind of do it a little bit like play. Sometimes we have to divide it over two you know appointments. We just do whatever we can to make it work. And yeah, at all stages we're just saying this is happening because of this, this is happening because of it. Because I think as long as you understand the why, you feel okay when you're a parent. But yes, to go back to your very first point there, Richelle, I always encourage both parents to be in there. And what's really nice is I actually do see that a lot more in today's day and age. You know, a lot more dads and grandparents and partners do, you know, come in now, not only for curiosity, but because it seems that there is a little bit more coming back to that that more than one person looking after a child now, which is really nice too.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah, I think that's great. I think having more people involved and is is the best. What are some wins that you've seen with babies? Oh, so Tell me all the wins. Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

So my favourite saying, I think I've said in every one of your your groups, is if you change the start of the story, you change the whole story. So Can you just say that again?

SPEAKER_00 20:38

I want you to slow down and say that again because it's so good.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

If you change the start of the story, you change the whole story. So that's why I'm so passionate about babies, and especially babies that have had, you know, some difficulties from the get-go. And that's because I was very, very blessed to have two amazing babies. Like I loved the newborn phase. Um, and I don't say that to put people down who aren't loving it. I say it because not many people say it can be good, and a well baby is literally feeding, sleeping, burping, and pooping with ease. They're still difficult, like you still are going to be tired, they still need to feed every two hours in those first few weeks, and that's pretty torturous. But but they should be happy and content. Like your heart shouldn't be breaking that there is something wrong here with this baby or me. So after my first when I got back into practice and I saw so many people struggling, that really just distressed me. I'm like, oh, that's awful. That you know, new parents aren't enjoying this phase. And that's where you know I got braver and braver going, I can help with that. Like this is what's going on. So the wins are many, but they're the small things, you know. If you can help baby go from crying endlessly all day to, you know, let's just say the normal amount, that mum can enjoy mum and dad can enjoy that newborn phase, that they're happy just to to feed and rest and you know. Tune in because it is a beautiful phase of life if if you've got the right environment and and the challenges are removed. If we can help establish breastfeeding, if we can help baby, basically, if you've got a happy baby, you've got a happy mum, and if you've got a happy mum, you've got a happy dad. So for me, it's not just that baby, it's that whole family unit that you're helping out. So there's the micro wins of just everybody's functioning and being nice to each other. There's the big wins in if someone wants to really establish breastfeeding, yeah, we can help them with that. If everyone can start sleeping a little bit better, that's amazing. If I then go to some of the more severe things we see, for example, a flathead or plagio carefully because they can only turn well to one side. That's not a wonky head problem, that's a movement problem. And if you don't move your head and neck properly, that then becomes a gross motor skill problem. Like they're not going to probably roll or crawl evenly. If you don't roll or crawl evenly, I'm going to come back into that brain balance. You're then going to have more or less input from different sides of the brain, and that's going to then probably look like at school potentially learning difficulties or behavioural difficulties. So kids don't outgrow things, they get relabeled things. You don't call a teenager colicky, you call them anxious.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 23:16

So a baby that's really distressed is called colic. And if that's not addressed, that's a toddler that's throwing too many tantrums. Then that's the kid at Kindi who's maybe you gotta go see a pediatrician and look at potential labels. That's the kid in school who's then learning difficulties. That's potentially then the teenager who's got severe mental health above and beyond all those beautiful teenage brains. So for me, if we can figure that out here, back at that toddler colloquy stage, it's just a world of stuff we're potentially helping out with. So that's that whole if you change the start story, you change the whole story. Because yeah, you don't outgrow things, you get relabeled.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

And I think our bodies are so good at readjusting, right? And and making adjustments for that. I think that what they do, our bodies go, oh, this isn't working, so I'm gonna do something else to adjust for that or compensate rather. And that's sort of how I've always sort of looked at it. So I think that's really interesting hearing that that that progression and seeing it can come at at this age. Um and you're right, like different labels than then progress.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Different stresses. So, you know, maybe if I stay away from the label word, it's just yeah, it gets more and more ingrained. The traumas, the tension gets more and more ingrained, and then before you know it, you know, we're in an era now in healthcare where it's more about chronic health issues, not as much acute and and deadly diseases, thankfully. So chronic health, you know, autoimmune type mental social world things, and that all comes back down to functionality, nervous system health always, which I think you know, we're getting more conversational language about. That's nice, trying to make sure we we keep tying it to professions that have been professing it. Like once upon a time, Kairos were woo-woo for talking about this, and now it's like everyone's stationary, like vague stuff, yeah, polyvagal theory. Like, we've been saying this for 200 years. Um just tying back to what things can actually help a body be well regulated. At the end of the day, you need a well-regulated nervous system. Obviously, you need, you know, the correct environment and you know, eating well and some movement and and now education around appropriate technology use is a big thing as well. My whole conversation's always about nervous system regulation. If we get that brain and body talking to each other, if we can internally understand ourselves first, then you can interpret the rest of the world. You have to sense your world correctly first before you can do any correct motor output or thinking output.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Yeah, yeah, wow. What are the main things that people will bring their baby in for? Like I know colic is one of the big ones, crying in the calf.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Crying in the calf, it's a big one, feeding is a big one, flat spots, head flat spots is a big one. They're probably the the top ones for for newborn babies. The little bit older will be the milestones, like if they're not sitting, rolling, crawling properly or unevenly. Constipation's another big one that we see a lot of. Parents want to get some more information. Is there you know a relationship to other things? And if they're regularly unwell and they do lots of things, you know, after six, seven, eight rounds of antibiotics, a lot of parents end up going, there has to be something else going on. So, once again, in the world of chiropractic, there's a whole range of things we do neurologically and structurally, but also nutrition is you know a big part of our education and what we help with as well. So sometimes it's families just going, We're trying, we're trying all the things. Honestly, I think they just come because they're like, I don't know, we've run out of options. Like, I have no idea what you do, but someone said to do stuff. Check them out, tell me.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

And I think that's so true, right? So I think as parents, we we kind of try to become detectives and we try to go, okay, this is happening and this is happening, and I don't feel like it's right, but and I need to know more, but I don't know where to go and how to figure that out. So yeah, then I think it then having you guys come to our chats and sort of the information blogs and videos that we put out on social media, I think helps to educate parents that the benefits of chiropractic care essentially. I would love to talk more about the nervous system regulation because you and I have talked about it a lot. So I am always quite heightened, and so this comes back to that mum, that whole load that the mum sort of takes on post-birth, and then as a primary caregiver, often many of the time. So I want to deep dive a little bit into that nervous system regulation and why that's important for new mums as well.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Yeah, new mums for all people always. The reason it's important for new mums is because your baby's only going to be as well as you are. So there's something called mirror neurons, or another word you might hear of as co-regulation. So sometimes when I'm working with a baby, if I'm not getting pretty quick results, because you should get fairly quick results with a baby. Because they're so fresh, right? They're so fresh. And hopefully there's not too many traumas. Sometimes, unfortunately, there are, but they shouldn't be. And so, you know, certainly within you know two weeks I should be seeing some pretty good results. If I'm not, by then I've also got to know a little bit more about the parents and the dynamics of what's going out at home. Plus, from the history I took, I can generally tell pretty early whether mum, dad, or both might need care as well. So if mum's not doing too good or wasn't even doing so well before having a baby, then the added stress of sleep deprivation and all the hormonal, physiological, biological changes that happen when you become a mum, matrescence. I'm sure you've talked about that before as well. That's gonna exacerbate any dysregulation you've got underneath already. So there is generally for me anyway, 100% of the time where I'm gonna circle back to mum and go, okay, baby's now sorted, or I've got babies far as I'm going to get them. Now we need to look at you and we, you know, invite you into care if you'd like that. Because if we can get you regulating a little bit better, this whole situation over here is going to get better again as well. And for mums, unfortunately, and I say unfortunately because I vividly remember being in my young 20s going to a seminar conference where there was a neurospeaker, a male, and he said something along, I'll paraphrase along the lines of, you know, women aren't biologically made to do it all, or something like that. You know, that 24-year-old feminist in me was like, oh, I hate men when they talk like that, you know. You can't tell me what you can do. You can't tell me what I can't do. I can absolutely do it all. He then went on to explain the biology and urology of you know, females versus males, and dang it, he was a bit right. Meaning that we are wired to to nurture and to to be caregivers, and the environment we're in now doesn't allow us to do it in a slow pace. So if I keep it really simple, we're wired to do it all but in a slower pace. And so, yes, we can be amazing entrepreneurs and professionals and mothers, but different things at different stages, I think. And what's happening now is you know, mums are coming into motherhood a lot of the time from going from a very busy, high, active go, go, go life. And if I if I bring in maybe a bit woo or another language here, a yang energy, a very masculine energy, and so women actually then want to pivot and and be mums, and that actually requires a whole different energy. It's a yin, a feminine, a softening, a slowing down energy, which is you know a biological and neurological thing as well. So that's why we have more estrogen, for example, than men versus the testosterone. So in our current lifestyles in Western worlds, and it's different in different cultures, but uh if I stick with our Western culture, we're probably just not living out a lifestyle in an environment that allows for us to be well neurologically, biologically, and probably hormonally, which is why we've got so many chronic health issues for women. But we do want it all. Yes. And we do want exciting lives, and so it's just trying to learn how to implement things which may be chiropractic or it might be yoga or it might be meditation or it might be saunas. Like there's a lot of options out there now, but it's finding what works for you as an individual, and also learning that there's different stages, you know. The beauty of being maybe a little bit on now with grown children and in the mid-40s is the 20s are different to the 30s, which are different to the 40s and 50s. And I and I read a book not long ago that I loved called 100 Years of Betty. It's just a woman's life story. Who made it to a hundred? And I just loved in this book how every decade of this woman's life was completely different, and of course, we don't understand that until you've probably lived it. So you don't have to have it all right now. Yeah, there is actually plenty of time, all going well for us, yeah, to to have amazing careers, to build things and also to be mums. And I'm just I'm really passionate about for mums to be in the little mum phase, to be in that phase. If you don't have to also have a thriving, you know, go, go, go career at the same time. Like sometimes maybe you have to, and there's finances, and I get that, but if you don't have to, maybe just be in that little kid phase, you know, like it's so brief. Yeah, we've got teenagers now, yeah. It's so brief. And in the moment it's so hard, but once it's gone, you miss it, you know. And I know everyone above you says that, but it's so true. It is, and I'm sure it's true for the teenage years and and the 20s and you know, all the years, you're always gonna be parent to your children. So, yes, mums need some care. It's not just the hands-on care, it's the education, it's these conversations around well, what's essential right now? Yeah, what do you actually have to do right now versus you think you have to do? Like, what's gonna happen if you push pause on this but focus on that? You know, some of my patients laugh all the time around, you know, there seems to be free counselling in this. I always joke, going, oh no, I'm gonna charge an extra 400 bucks soon for this. Um, but it is coming still from that neurological perspective. I'm not a counselor, I'm not telling people to, you know, change jobs or leave husbands or whatever. It's around what's gonna work for you from a neurological perspective, what's gonna keep you steady, what's gonna keep that adrenaline cortisol low, because of their hormones and they're gonna affect your oasterine and progesterone. And then if they're out of whack, that's gonna look like a lot of the female health problems that we we see and talk about as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

So on that, I actually am so glad that you touched on it because I wanted you to sort of extend on that a little bit about the potential healthcare issues, and I know me personally, that that has actually happened. So it's like you're running like a flat out hundred hundred meter race as fast as you can, and you can't just stop at the end, right? So then you become a mum, so you just keep going. You think that you just have to keep going at that sort of high, high intensity pace because you want to have it all, which is so fine. But then this is where I think when you're on that for so long and you have that high cortisol, high adrenaline, then you can it can look very different from a health perspective long term. I know I've experienced, I'd love you to just touch on that for a little bit, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Yeah, so women are you're only as healthy as your hormones, essentially, but your hormones are also governed by a well-regulating nervous system. So I'm gonna keep coming back to that. Your brain still has to tell your organs what to do, tell your glands what hormones to release. And what's tricky is it's not even just the actuality of doing it, Rochelle, it's thinking of doing it. So even if in your brain you're doing your 20-point checklist constantly, you're throwing yourself into your sympathetic nervous system, your go mode mentally. Your body actually only believes what your brain tells it. So if it's telling it I've got all these things to do, then it's gonna tense up all the muscles in your neck and shoulders and legs to do them, to run. You don't know me. You don't know what I'm so you know, everyone who's like, oh, I've always got massages, but my shoulders are still tight. I'm like, it's not a muscle problem, it's a body problem. Your brain is telling those to be switched on because you are running and fighting. And you then also need a whole bunch of adrenaline to keep going, and that's gonna lift your heart rate and pump harder and faster, more regularly. And yes, these are beautiful compensation mechanisms. Our body has four minutes, not for hours, not for weeks, certainly not for months and years, which is what we've been doing. Hence our chronic health issues that we we now have in in healthcare. For women, that will often look like hormone type things, uterus, ovaries, they then talk to thyroid, so a lot of thyroid stuff as well. As a chiropractor, do I cure those things? No. What do I do? I help that nervous system regulate a whole lot better so that those messages, those nervous system messages to the glands, and then the glands to the organs and the organs out to the body are doing their job properly. So, for an example, if we we are humans are mammals, and if we looked at there's been some studies like on deers, if they have a threat, sympathetics switch on, they run really fast, they get away from someone that's chasing them to eat them. Once they hopefully get away, it takes 30 seconds for them to switch off that and then go calmly eat grass. To rest and digest, right? 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_00 36:36

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Do you know any humans that take 30 seconds to come out of like I had to park and it was really, really and my app wasn't working and I couldn't get here. Exactly. Like imagine in life if you could 30 seconds, yep, done with that, move on. In a calm, relaxed, shoulders down way.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

And what that would do for your body, right?

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 37:00

Yeah, amazing, amazing. And I think my aha moment was I think he gave me a book and it was about the sympathetic dominance.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yeah, that's a great book explaining it all and how it affects all the things. Yes digestion, hormones, sleep, yeah, the cascade. There's a cascade in there, it talks about. So if things go for long enough, you will get more and more pathology. So there is a train of three things that we look for. If someone has had gallbladder out, thyroid out, and a hysterectomy, we're like, Well, you've been going a really long time, you know, and you can actually progressively go, yep, that would have happened, then that would have happened, then that would have happened. And they're like, So I've had one out of three. So I need to let's prevent those other two of them. Yes, absolutely. Because yeah, if it goes too long, then you're gonna get into a world where the medical world is is the most appropriate world, and their options are going to be medications andor surgeries. Because yeah, there's only so much adaptation your body can do. Once again, if we start at the start, the earlier the better. That's why I love working with babies, children, and something else I know you've said many times, Rochelle, is the other beautiful thing with working with children is getting them to know their bodies at an early age, right? Yes. So the sooner they can go, something feels off, and it's not there's a full-blown symptom, it's just I don't feel right.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah, and this is exactly right. I say this to all the mums as well. So my kids went into chiropractic care at four, six, and eight. All three of them, once I learnt more about chiropractic care and how it can support their them their bodies. And now the girls, and even before now, they've gone, oh my body doesn't feel right. I don't, I don't feel whatever. And I don't know how to explain it, but I don't remember ever having enough body awareness in my early teens, pre-teens to go, my body doesn't feel right. I need to do something or I need to get support for that. So I am such an advocate for that because I think for my girls to know their bodies and understand their bodies when they're trying to tell them something, I think that's super important. So important.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

I just ran into another friend at uh a yoga night not long ago, and I used to work with her son, who's now grown up, he's like 19, and I worked with him when he was little in kind of high school years. He's he's been seeing Cairo still, but someone someone else, and they're great Cairo, very structural, he loves him, you know, they have they have romance going on. But he just said to his mum two weeks ago, you know what, I think I need to go back to Jolene and just get some of that brain stuff she used to do for me, like at school. Like he he used to have some learning challenges, he doesn't anymore. Out of that story, what I loved is like, oh bless him, he's still so in tune, not only with his physical body, which is what he has been using Cairo for because he's you know growing up and he's gone to the gym and stuff, but he's had a moment of wait a second, I don't actually feel right. Something's not connecting right in my brain, or somewhere, like he doesn't, you know, maybe have the full language, but he knows. He knows and he knows he's got to go and get a certain style of Cairo to work on that as well. So, and that's where different Kairos, different skill sets, you know, those that are good with babies, with kids, with brains, with nervous systems, or structurally, some Kairos go into sport and they're very sporty and they're very about joints and bersitis and you know, rotator cuffs and and stuff like that. It's a place for that as well. There's some that go right into nutrition, they're you know, may even have another qualification in nutrition or naturopathy, and they go into gut health fully and lots of different avenues. So it is also around, like you said at the start, finding the right chiropractor as well for you, what's gonna work for you, who do you gel with, what makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Yeah, yeah, I love that. If you had one thing to tell a new mum today, what would that be?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Get yourself and your baby checked. Get yourselves checked, get yourselves well. You change the start story, you change the whole story. That phase can be beautiful. It will always be a little bit hard, but it doesn't have to be all hard. And between a well-regulated nervous system and a village, those two things are equally important because your village, and you know, I'm a big advocate for the mums groups, is it's also meant to be a journey that's shared, and that is another thing women particularly are wired for. So our nervous systems and our hormones are wired for connection to be around other women, gatherings, groups, social. So, you know, that's super important as well, especially in a today's day and age where technology has taken that over, so people are feeling connected through technology, which isn't terrible, but if you're replacing that with real connection, human connection, eye contact, language, touch, a hug from a friend, then you're missing out on something as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah, and that's why I think it's so important because yeah, you're right, that that in-person connection makes such a difference too, right? So I just I mean, I could talk to you for ages about all this. I love chatting with you about chiropractic care and the benefits for mums and bubs, and this is why we love having you and your team come and chat with us at Mumma's Circle. I just wanted to say thank you so much for your time today, Jolene. Thank you. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. If this podcast resonated with you, please feel free to leave a review, share with a mum that might need it, and we're so glad to have you part of our inner circle.