WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.000 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.560 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:17.120 Take four. 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:18.800 Take six. 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:20.000 Take six, take seven. 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:20.879 Do you know that group? 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:21.519 Take six? 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:21.920 I don't. 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:22.320 Okay. 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:23.440 I have to hook you up, man. 00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:23.920 All right. 00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:24.079 Yeah. 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:25.280 Let's do this. 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:27.519 Welcome to After the Message. 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:34.159 Uh, if you are stumbling along this podcast, you are on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast or YouTube channel. 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:37.439 And this is a segment we call After the Message. 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:38.240 After the Message. 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:41.679 I feel like we need to get in sync when we say that we call After the Message. 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:42.159 That's what we're doing. 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:43.039 We can do that as well. 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:43.840 I like that too. 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.320 Yeah. 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:47.439 This is the Celebration Church Orlando. 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:48.560 Did I say that already? 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:49.359 Probably so. 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:52.880 But the Celebration Church Orlando podcast and YouTube channel. 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:55.119 So glad that you're with us today. 00:00:55.359 --> 00:01:00.799 And also today, again, I'm joined by the lead pastor of Celebration Church Orlando, Pastor Keith Pittman. 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:01.359 How are you, sir? 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:01.920 I'm great. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:03.600 I feel like this is like turning into a show. 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:04.079 It is. 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:05.439 It's like it's like our thing, man. 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:06.159 Yeah, for sure. 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.200 Late, late, late night or early afternoon, we could call it. 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:10.319 Yeah, let's figure it out, man. 00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:11.280 Early afternoon show. 00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:12.560 We'll do a spin-off. 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:13.359 Sounds great. 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:14.400 I love it. 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:25.040 We are uh currently in a series here at Celebration Church Orlando uh about the Holy Spirit called Parakletos, the the Greek word for the Holy Spirit. 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:26.879 And um what week are we in? 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:27.280 Five? 00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:28.239 We're going to five? 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:29.200 We're going into five. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:31.680 Well, well, we're Yeah, we're five. 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:32.719 Going into six. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:33.519 Five. 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:36.719 And this is a seven or eight week series. 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.480 We kind of prolonged this one out. 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:43.920 We thought it would be good to spend a little bit of extra time uh talking about the Holy Spirit in our church. 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:54.400 And uh because of modern technology, you all get to um reap the the fruit of what we're talking about here in Orlando. 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:58.719 So wherever you are around the world uh listening, uh welcome. 00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:05.040 Um first of all, you know, I kind of want to keep with this theme uh of shout-outs. 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:13.520 We we've given a couple shout-outs here on After the Message, and um I'm gonna put you on the spot and ask you, do you have any shout-outs? 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:15.599 We were talking about your barber earlier. 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.240 Um, you know, do you got you got anyone in the shout out today on After the Message? 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:22.719 Man, um Your daughter was here earlier. 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:28.159 My daughter was here earlier, so you know, always want to shout out uh Daener Monet Pittman. 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:29.680 Um that's drop in the middle name. 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:30.639 Yeah, drop in the middle name. 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:32.319 Gotta give her the full government. 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:36.560 So um, so yeah, I'll I'll shout out, I'll shout out my daughter. 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:41.439 Yeah, she's uh she's a she's a tremendous uh anchor to our family. 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:51.360 And and it's a typical, you know, uh we we've seen these memes, at least I have more recently about like the the the the daughter or the middle child being the manager and all those things. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:54.400 So she's she's definitely that for our family. 00:02:54.560 --> 00:03:00.400 She's the one who needs to plan, she's the one who's which can be a little annoying, but also keeps us accountable in some ways. 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.680 Um so yes, so she's she's a she's a delight, she's a joy. 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:05.360 So um so it was good to see her briefly. 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.080 I was disappointed. 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:07.439 I thought she was gonna be here a little bit longer. 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:08.080 Yeah, I saw that. 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:09.919 Um she said she was gonna be here. 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:12.240 I thought it was gonna be an hour, but she was just passing through. 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.479 So um I was a little disappointed, man. 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.840 I had to like pray and fast to get myself back in the spirit for this recording. 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:26.879 Yeah, I saw I saw your face light up when she when she entered the room, and then when she left the room, it uh you know was anthetical uh to that. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:29.439 So um you're you're you're surviving though. 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:30.800 You're gonna make it through surviving, man. 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:31.599 We'll we'll make it through. 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:35.520 So I mean you you're listening you're you're new into this fatherhood thing, man. 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.560 You'll you'll see that it evolves, but it never goes away. 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:39.120 Yes. 00:03:39.360 --> 00:04:06.479 And speaking of that, I do want to start off this podcast, you know, talking about being a parent and having to um explain the Holy Spirit to your kids and having to try and I don't want to say get it on their level, but perhaps, you know, age-appropriate way to kind of teach your kids the power of the Holy Spirit, how the Holy Spirit can interact with them even in their lives. 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:17.759 I think our C Kids Ministry does an incredible job at at trying to uh trying to teach our kids, you know, the ways of Jesus, and and that includes his spirit in their lives. 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.920 So I let's start with you personally. 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.360 How did you try and teach that in your home and how was it received by your kids as they were growing up? 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:30.959 Yeah, it's um you know, I think um we look at like church doctrine. 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:38.560 You we we look at all these things that we have and that we believe as as people of faith, and it can be very robust. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:48.560 Like, so I remember when I was introduced to the things of God, I don't know at what point did I begin to make distinctions of the characteristics of God and personality traits, and oh, this is Jesus. 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.879 Like, I I don't know because it was never like broken down in a dissected way like that. 00:04:52.959 --> 00:05:01.279 It was like God, the concept of God, and then really it just began to center on Jesus because he became the expression of what it looks like to honor God. 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.639 He became our example, and so I think that's kind of the model that we had initially. 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:18.079 So when when I recently, I I probably maybe about a year ago, I'm reading through the Gospel of John, chapter one, and it talks about like um in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, all that stuff. 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.120 But then it gets to that part where it says, and the word became flesh. 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:31.279 And and I think I've shared this with staff, but for me, that was such a profound, simple revelation of when you think about in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:47.920 Like that in itself, there are books written on the concept of God, his word, and how they're connected, and then Jesus becoming um God in the flesh, the hypostatic union, all these theological terms, but that's simple phrase of but the word became flesh. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:54.480 It means that even in the spite of the cosmos and the power, the enormity of God, at the end of the day, it became flesh. 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:57.279 It became something that we can engage, and it was very simple. 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:04.480 So when I think about how I talk about God with my kids, it's not trying to break down complex doctrine and theology. 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:05.759 There's a time when they'll get there. 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:07.600 I just want the word to become flesh for them. 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:18.160 And so for me, more often than not, it's about the person of Jesus and how we can live a life of his characteristics, and then as they grow, then we begin to talk about the Holy Spirit and what does that mean. 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:23.439 But I think at a very young age, that simply will confuse them because there are adults who are still confused by that. 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:34.160 Yeah, you you talked a little bit there about uh revelation and what that what that meant to you earlier on in the year as you were reading John 1. 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:42.000 I think sometimes we can um dramatize what a revelation of God is in our lives, right? 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:43.759 And you know, I talked to several people. 00:06:43.920 --> 00:07:08.639 I even had a conversation yesterday with somebody who was, you know, I don't feel connected to God, but they were so self-aware enough to be able to say, and perhaps my um perhaps my desire for that connection is a is a little bit uh unrealistic in the fact that I think it's this grandiose thing that's you know uh when in reality it's it's more like a relationship, obviously, that we have through his Holy Spirit. 00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:11.600 But back to back to the revelation part of it. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.360 What constitutes a revelation when you're reading God's word? 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:24.079 I guess for you personally or you know, theologically, I guess you could even go on to, but but how do you realize like, man, that that was a revelation from God? 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:28.720 Yeah, I uh you know for me it it it comes back to from scripture. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:34.399 I always look for these uh narratives that kind of like give texture to these ideas. 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:41.199 So there's the narrative of Jesus talking with his disciples and saying, like, okay, who do who do men say that I am? 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.839 And they're like, oh, some say that you're this and some say that, and then he's like, Well, what do you what do you say about me? 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:52.079 Man, I I believe that you're the Messiah, you're the Son of the Living God, and then Jesus says, Flesh and blood didn't reveal this to you. 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:53.839 This is a revelation from God. 00:07:54.079 --> 00:08:10.800 Basically, what what Jesus was communicating is that there's these learned people, these these scholars, these Pharisees, Sadducees, people who have lived their who lived their lives, studying the scriptures, and they seen Jesus the same way that these unlearned men did, and they came to a different conclusion. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.720 But somehow they were able to identify something that other people didn't. 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:28.079 That's a revelation to me, is when God is clearly revealing something or unveiling something that may just be beyond our our natural realm of interpretation because they all seen Jesus doing the same things, but they came to a separate conclusion. 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:34.639 I think it's interesting how the most educated people missed it and the most unlearned people are the ones who saw it. 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:43.759 So for me, revelation is not about some academic ascent into understanding all things when it relates to God, but it's often the simple things that reveal God in that. 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:44.960 So that's how it is. 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.799 It's not always this light bulb moment that gives you the chills. 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:55.039 I'm really big on like making sure that we don't we don't it's kind of like distort what revelation is supposed to be. 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:56.799 It's just it's just an unveiling. 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.039 And sometimes you get perspective, like, oh wow, I never saw that before, or I never thought of it that way. 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:11.600 And I think a lot of time God uses either the season of life that we're in, which is why when it talks about scripture and it says that it's the living word, it means that you can read it in one season and get a revelation from it. 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:14.799 You can read it in a completely different season and get a revelation from it. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:30.399 When I read the scripture now as a lead pastor, there are passages that stand out to me that are different than it was when I was leading youth pastors and when I was a groups pastor, like it just takes on a different form because my season of life is different, which means that my perspective is different, which means God is speaking to me different. 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:32.080 So that's kind of how revelation works for me. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:41.840 Do you think that could be dangerous, you know, saying, well, it said it the scriptures said to me this and this time, and now it says to me this and this. 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:42.720 You know what I mean? 00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:49.039 Like, how do we how do we guard ourselves, I guess, from reading into the scriptures what we want it to say? 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.600 Yeah, that's a that's an important question. 00:09:51.840 --> 00:10:03.200 So what I'm I think the the Bible provides again, when you're having a healthy interpretation of scripture, the the Bible provides the boundaries in which we interpret it. 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:03.519 Okay. 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.279 You have the author, you have the original intent, you have the culture, you have context. 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:10.240 All those things are substantially important. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:15.279 Revelation a lot of times comes, it's a perspective that maybe you didn't have. 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:20.720 It doesn't change the message, it just changed your understanding of what God is doing. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:27.120 So again, if you have a revelation that completely changes the message of what God's doing, then your revelation is probably pretty flawed. 00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:40.000 I I remember um going to a conference many years ago, and um Mama Joyce, Joyce Myers, was there, and she was talking to a bunch of pastors, and she was speaking about just the pressure that we often can feel with message prep and things like that. 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.279 But she said something so simple but yet profound. 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:53.120 She said, Let's be honest, if you have a revelation that has literally never been seen, heard, or preached before, you need to evaluate if it's from God. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.679 Because at the end of the day, Jesus is Lord. 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.960 Like it's it's it becomes it's the message is the message. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:10:59.279 Yeah. 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.759 Your revelation simply becomes how do I apply it? 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:03.120 Things that I haven't seen before. 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:07.360 But if it changes the message altogether, then let's have a conversation because you're probably reading into it. 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:09.039 Nothing new under the sun, right? 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:09.759 Come on. 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:29.360 Um we often talk a lot about, or at least you do, you know, the the the attitude a Christian should have towards a non-believer um in regards to overreactions to their behavior because at the end of the day, they don't know what we know, right? 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:40.799 They they they may not have the relationship with Christ that we have, and so to be surprised at their lifestyle or behavior um seems a little bit ridiculous. 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:50.639 What what would be your encouragement to someone because you mentioned how the the Pharisees, the Sadducees didn't have that revelation that the unlearned did? 00:11:50.799 --> 00:12:06.639 But I think it also ties into what would be your encouragement to a believer who's maybe frustrated with someone because they're maybe not understanding or believing or um engaging God a certain way. 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:11.360 So the unbel so is this a believer with another believer? 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:12.320 Uh unbeliever. 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:13.679 So believer with an unbeliever. 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:14.240 Okay. 00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:23.279 Um And because a lot of times you you want you're so passionate and fired up about your faith, you just want come on, don't you see it? 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:24.000 Don't you see it? 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:29.679 You know, and I think that can be frustrating for us because we just want the best for our friends or even our family. 00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:30.480 Yeah right. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:34.960 So how does someone be patient, a fruit of the spirit there? 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:36.559 How does someone be patient in that? 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:41.519 And and I guess what's your encouragement for them to to to uh to walk that out? 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.720 I I think um it comes down to God was patient with us. 00:12:47.840 --> 00:13:00.399 And and I'm certain that you know we can we can kind of have these moments where um they call it anthropomorphism when you basically take human attributes and put it on God, but that's how we can relate to him. 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:15.120 Um so I imagine if we were to kind of project our emotions onto God as He's opening His arms wide and inviting us into relationship with Him, inclusive of myself and the amount of decades that I went living life on my own terms, but he was patient. 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:24.879 Now, granted, I'm I'm not God, but when I when I look at for me, I I I try to pull from Jesus more than my own lived experiences. 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:33.279 Because when I pull from Jesus, it gives me one, a reminder of what he's done for me, and then two, it also reminds me what he expects from me. 00:13:33.519 --> 00:13:42.639 So the parable of of Jesus when he talks about the lost sheep, the lost coin, it's really showing his pursuit of people that are away from him. 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:43.759 The lost coin, man. 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.240 He's sweep the the the lady sweeping up everything in the house to find the lost one, the lost sheep. 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:50.480 I'll leave the 99 to go after the one. 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:57.759 So I'm I'm in the 99, and and he's leaving people that he feels are safe to go after the one. 00:13:57.919 --> 00:13:59.759 I think there's a couple things we can take from that. 00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:06.799 When you're in the 99, but you still want the attention like you're the one, that's when our relationship with God is very unhealthy. 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:08.399 He's saying, Man, you guys are mature. 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:10.000 I need you to stick together. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:11.200 I need you to be unified. 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:16.320 I need you to be mature so that as I'm bringing the one in, they actually want to be a part of the fold. 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:22.960 Unfortunately, a lot of times we end up wandering around ourselves, and now God is trying to recover the one. 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.799 We're bickering with other sheep, and it's like, man, I don't want to be a part of it. 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.159 That's why I ran away in the first place. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:29.519 So I think that's a part. 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.200 And I don't want to go off on a rabbit trail. 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.440 So I think that's kind of how I look at it. 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.240 I just remind myself that Jesus pursued me. 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:44.399 So if I'm a vessel that he's entrusting to have relationship with people, again, this is like, again, you're kind of referencing family and friends. 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:45.919 I have relationship with them. 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:57.200 I'm gonna one pray for patience so that I can be an example that's leading people to come to the flock instead of being a person who's frustrated and trying to ram it down people's throats. 00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.679 Because quite honestly, that wasn't done for me. 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.480 And when it had been done to me, it didn't produce fruit. 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.960 It was when I was in an environment where I felt loved and accepted that led me in. 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.720 It's the goodness of God that leads us to repentance, not condemnation from other sheep. 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:12.960 I just feel like that's it, it doesn't produce fruit. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:13.519 Yeah. 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:25.679 And kind of speaking about you know what Jesus expects from us, um you know, this week we're looking at uh the the letter to the church in Galatia, correct? 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:26.159 Yep. 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:41.919 Um and you know, at the beginning Paul begins to lay out our freedom in Christ, um, but he also kind of condemns this um this adherence or this desire to continue to keep the law. 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:56.799 Um and we've we've touched on this in other uh settings and episodes before, but but briefly, what does freedom from the law mean, I guess, then, and what does it mean now to to a believer? 00:15:57.279 --> 00:16:12.799 Yeah, so man, it's it's such a it's such a it's interesting because when you read about the law, you see moments where it's spoken about in glowing terms, and then you see other instances, specifically in a lot of Paul's writings, it's like, man, we're freed from that. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:27.120 So the reason why the law was celebrated in the Old Testament, even the day of Pentecost, the reason why the Day of Pentecost has multiple layers and people celebrated it is because many believed that it was the day that the law was given. 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:40.559 So they celebrated because what the law meant for the follower of God is back when God began to really select Israel and build a nation out of them and then utilize them to go to the promised land and then essentially bring the Messiah. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:47.360 Up to that point, there were no really there was no clear doctrinal way to worship God. 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:57.840 So you just had people who had all these different pagan beliefs and they worship all these different gods, and they had no idea of what their God wanted from them or what they could expect from their God. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:04.559 So people are doing weird stuff, human sacrifices, because they're like, hey, it's raining outside, maybe the God wants this, and so they're just trying to figure it out. 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:16.640 So the reason why in the Old Testament, when Moses came down with the word and people celebrated it, is because man, we have a God who has a relationship with us and he's letting us know what he wants from us, but also what we can expect from him. 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:18.240 So that's a beautiful thing. 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:28.480 The problem is as more interpretations came, um, and then you had like the oral law, then you had all these other laws that started kind of getting added to it that was complicating it. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.000 Now the law became a burden. 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.039 So when Jesus comes on the scene, he's confronting the Pharisees and saying, like, you guys are hypocrites. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.319 You're you're holding people to standards that you yourselves only live up to. 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:43.519 You're so quick to criticize all these things, and you've lost the heart behind what the law is supposed to represent. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:18:05.200 The law was supposed to be this beautiful document that was really meant to provide language for what it meant for us to be in relationship with God, but you guys have made it so messy and so complicated that now I need to send my son to fulfill the law, to remove all those barriers, not kingdom standards, but to remove all the finger pointing and all the judgment and criticism. 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:12.000 So what what Paul's talking about with that community and saying being free from the law, he's not talking about like Ten Commandments. 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:13.119 I say that in error quotes. 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:13.920 I say that in quotes. 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:19.039 He's not talking about um Ten Commandments like, hey man, Jesus died for us, so yeah, we're gonna go murder and still. 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:20.160 That's not what that means. 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.400 Right. 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:28.000 He's more so talking about all the extra laws that people had added into it that made it so complicated and so basically unattainable. 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:29.039 He removed those things. 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:31.119 And man, let's you guys have made it too complicated. 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:43.119 Let's get back to recognizing that that Jesus came, that he died on the cross, and the only two things you need to do in order to fulfill all of that is love God, and there's behaviors and expectations from that, and love each other. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:50.799 That fulfills the law, love does, and so that's what Paul is trying to bring them back to because if we're doing things and it's not out of love, then what are we doing? 00:18:50.960 --> 00:19:03.920 Yeah, and now there's even there are scriptures that point to the spirit as being the one who reveals the law to us, and the law is now written on our hearts, right? 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:17.119 And so I think I think the overcomplication uh is what turns a lot of people off to Christianity or following Jesus in the first place. 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:22.640 But if we if we drill down into it, it's really a life surrender to to the spirit. 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:23.200 Yep. 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.480 Um what does that look like practically? 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.759 What is what is my life surrender to the spirit, having the law written on my heart uh look like? 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:36.400 Because that can sound very ambiguous or um sort of out there, right? 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:41.680 And maybe even a little bit um, you know, a little bit voodoo-ish, right? 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:48.240 W when in reality it's a it's a real truth of scripture to be able to follow the spirit's promptings and leadings. 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.960 I think it it comes back to it's the motivation behind all of it. 00:19:53.119 --> 00:20:17.039 You know, I think um what what Jesus was trying to reveal when he would perform these incredible miracles and they would get tripped up on the technicalities of it, he's saying to that community, bro, like if you if you really had love for one another, then you would celebrate at the fact that that's blind eyes were opened on the Sabbath, even if it did happen on that day. 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.240 If you really had love for one another, then you wouldn't get tripped up on all of these extra technicalities. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:31.200 So I it is as simple as it sounds, but as complex as it is, it comes down to like love, having true, genuine love for other people. 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:37.920 So you'll see in just consistency in Paul's writing, he he's talking a lot about like bearing one another's burdens. 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:45.440 Like he's given us an instruction on how to practically walk out life and what he believes it means to be a follower of Christ. 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.319 Jesus says, by their fruit you will know them. 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:51.119 You're gonna know who they are based off of how they treat one another. 00:20:51.359 --> 00:21:09.440 The story of the the good Samaritan was is such a it was such a a culture shock because Jesus is talking to a group of people, primarily a Jewish audience at this point, who had been told to completely stay separate from Samaritans, that Samaritans were half-breeds, they were not even adequate. 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:18.880 So, so then Jesus is giving this profound parable about man, there's a man that's fallen down on the wayside, and then you got people that are literally avoiding him, and that's religion. 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:19.680 Man, look at him. 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:26.160 Well, he brought it on himself, and he's got to pull himself like you have all these things, but the Samaritan, so he's like, so who's truly his neighbor? 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.359 Who's the one that's actually acting in a godly character? 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.359 Well, man, Jesus sounds like the Samaritan. 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:32.160 Exactly. 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.480 It's not about the things that divide us, it's about having love that's supposed to unite us. 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:42.160 And and I I remember um one of my professors had shared this story, and I thought it was really interesting. 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:51.759 He had said that um that at this particular like seminary school, they had done a four hour lecture exclusively on um the Good Samaritan. 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:59.759 And they were like, Okay, so that lecture intentionally went longer, and there was a next lecture that was going to be happening in another um course, and so. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:06.960 So the guy goes a little bit long on purpose so that now the students are rushing to get to this next um lecture that's going to take place. 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:14.559 While they're rushing there, there's a guy who's on a who's on the street who's basically looks as if he's suffering. 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.759 In other words, he looks like he's a person who's having a hard time. 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.279 And he's like out there and he's like, Man, because anybody got anything you can give me? 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:28.319 And after a four-hour lecture on what does it mean to have a heart for other people, not a single student stopped to help him. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.039 So when it got to the next guy's lecture, the guy was like, Hey man, did anybody happen to see the guy out there? 00:22:33.200 --> 00:22:35.200 And they were like, Yeah, yeah, but we had to get here. 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:37.839 He was like, You guys completely missed the previous lecture. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:44.319 Me and that professor worked together to see who was really willing to walk out what it means to be a follower of Christ. 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.319 And I'm not saying you failed, but you missed it. 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:54.400 You were so consumed with getting to where you felt you needed to be that you missed an opportunity to simply just demonstrate love for somebody else because it wasn't convenient. 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.319 That's what Jesus is trying to break us out of. 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:58.880 Convenient love, because it's not, it doesn't it doesn't work. 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:10.160 Yeah, and even in even in this chapter uh of Galatians 5, Paul talks about uh false teaching that comes in. 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:20.240 And so I I believe there's there's a a tension there because even scripture talks about how bad character corrupts good company, right? 00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:32.079 And so I can imagine and I feel like even today there's such a a quick trigger on that's a false prophet, you know, we see it all the time, like that's false, like that's not true. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:35.039 Um, and so you're distancing, right? 00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:52.960 Um, so for me, there's always that tension of okay, how do I how do I love my neighbor who who may be how do I be the Samaritan in this, but also how do I not get caught up into something that could be detrimental to my faith? 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.000 Pastor me through that, Pastor Keith. 00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:03.599 Man, it's I don't think that it's um I don't think it's a a copy and paste black and white answer. 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:09.119 I genuinely believe it's a God, what is required of me in this situation? 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:21.359 I think a lot of times where we get caught up, and this is where I think the law had gotten out of um out of joint, is that they began to make overarching rules for individual situations. 00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:30.720 And then unfortunately, when those rules don't fit the next situation, now that situation either gets ignored and gets suppressed because the rule becomes the thing that we end up living by. 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:32.240 Come on, you know what I'm talking about. 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:37.599 So so what happens is, yeah, like what is God saying that you need to do in this situation? 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.480 What is God saying you need to do with this particular neighbor? 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:50.240 Um, and and that's kind of how I like to challenge myself is whenever I find myself in situations um is to being mindful of God, what's required of me in this? 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:54.240 Because is this an assignment for me to go in, or is this an opportunity for me to distance myself? 00:24:54.319 --> 00:25:01.599 I I genuinely don't know, and that's where trusting God and learning to be dolled into his voice, having a sense of discernment, trusting your gut. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:24.079 Um, but it for me everything goes back to Jesus, and I just can't help but to wonder, man, like when I look at the life and ministry of Jesus, like and we look at the scriptures, and I see a lot of folks that are so consumed with false prophet this and this person is doing that, and and if you're a true f son of God, then you wouldn't be doing these things. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.680 I'm like, man, like I don't want to be a Pharisee, and but you'll have them quoting scriptures to justify all of that. 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:41.119 And and I'm not saying that that Paul in his writings or any other letter in the scripture are ever in conflict with Jesus, but I never build an indoctrine off of a passage of scripture. 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:51.200 For me, it's looking at that, but I also measure that with the nature of God, I also look at it at the behavior of Jesus, and then I also interpret what Paul's saying collectively. 00:25:51.440 --> 00:26:05.359 But a lot of times we'll bypass what Jesus did, and we're quoting a random passage that Paul, without looking at the context in which he said it, without looking at the audience in which he said it, without looking at any of that stuff, and we're overriding the very character of God or what we've seen Jesus do in ministry. 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.519 So here's the point Jesus hung out with the very people that we're talking about avoiding. 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:09.920 Right. 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:12.240 He he sat at the table with the prostitutes. 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:14.000 So so how do we navigate through that? 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.359 He he was in those environments. 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:21.920 Every person he was surrounded by, at least in his earlier stage of ministry, maybe with the exception of Matthew, but he had his own beef. 00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.160 They all had their varying things going on, and that's who Jesus chose to surround himself by. 00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:35.920 So I'm thinking to myself, if we were to put that into this context now, are we are we criticizing someone for doing something that God has called them to do? 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:40.319 This is why, like, Jesus says, like, who are we to judge another another person's servant? 00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.000 Like, it's not our place to, but unfortunately we we feel the need to do that. 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:45.920 Now, here's the other side of the coin. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:46.400 Yes. 00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:49.920 The other side of the coin is by their fruit you shall know them. 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:58.559 So for me, when it comes to looking at another Christian, I'm not here to judge another Christian's behavior. 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.839 I'm not here to judge you should be doing this, you shouldn't be doing that. 00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:05.279 What scripture does say that we can do is that we can look at fruit. 00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.200 So I'm not looking at what you're doing. 00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:10.160 Yeah, there are certain characteristics that I may agree with, that I may not. 00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:13.759 That's that could be preference, that even could be my interpretation of scripture. 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:19.279 I'm very rarely going to go on a mountaintop, I'm very rarely gonna post anything about my disagreement with another Christian. 00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.680 That's just not something that I feel like God's wired me to do. 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:23.119 I'm not here to throw shade on anybody. 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:24.640 That's just not the way I'm wired to do it. 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.079 But for me, I'm going past that and saying, what's the fruit from that? 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.680 Is there anything life-giving that's being produced from this individual? 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:38.880 So, yes, if I see Christians that are hanging out in environments that maybe I personally don't feel comfortable going into, what's the fruit from it? 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:39.759 Not the behavior. 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:40.640 Is there any fruit? 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:42.000 Is there any life coming from it? 00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:46.640 That's the only thing we can go by because we don't know if God told them to go and do it in the same way. 00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.079 The Pharisees didn't understand why Jesus was healing people on the Sabbath. 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:54.640 They were just looking at the black and white of the law and they completely missed the fruit that was being presented. 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:56.720 I just want to look at fruit more than I look at behavior. 00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:07.599 Yeah, and I think that's difficult for even someone like me, um, because as you mentioned at the beginning of that, was this is case by case. 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:12.559 And for someone like myself, I could go, well, let me let me flip through. 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.519 What do I do here? 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:17.519 You know, what what is what does the rule book say about this? 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:24.240 Um, so true dependence on the spirit is true dependence, and it's scary and it requires a lot of faith. 00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:27.839 And so I I think that's the the first thing I would say about that. 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:34.079 And then the next thing, I feel like Jesus kind of talked about this, how you should approach it. 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:35.680 Hey, go to them. 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.039 If they don't hear you, bring somebody else, you know, like keep trying this way. 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.839 It's not a it's not necessarily a declaration. 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.160 Like if you if you can't say it to them personally, why would you say it publicly for everybody else? 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:56.960 And so I I think if we kind of got back back into that, we could avoid a lot of fires, but uh I digress. 00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:58.319 But I'll say this, man. 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:01.920 I think we also have to have the the help me to understand. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:09.039 I know that that's a phrase that I use a lot of times, because what that does is it helps me to stop in with the presumption that you're wrong. 00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:11.359 It's more so, this is what I'm seeing. 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.960 So help me to understand, because maybe God is leading you to do something. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.440 Let help like let's have a conversation instead of me like, hey, let me confront you and tell you why you're wrong. 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:21.440 It's more so, hey Nate, this is what I'm seeing, man. 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.599 So help me understand, like what tell me what's going on. 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:28.000 And then from there, after you have an opportunity to be like, oh bro, I didn't even know it came across that way. 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:28.720 Okay, cool. 00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:30.480 Now we can have common ground. 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.119 Or you could be like, Yeah, dude, I don't see anything wrong with this. 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:34.000 This is why I'm doing it. 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:35.519 Cool, now we can have a conversation. 00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.680 I think with the flaw with Christians is we always assume we're right. 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.960 So everybody's interpretation is the interpretation. 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.440 My way is the way instead of it being a way. 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:48.480 And so when I see a different way, I want to confront you about it. 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:56.880 So this is why when um the disciples of of Jesus come up like, hey man, like there's some other disciples over there and they're baptized and they're they're not with us, man. 00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:57.920 What are your thoughts? 00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:02.799 And it's like, anyone who's not against us is also with us, even if it does look different. 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:10.559 So I think we just gotta stop believing that my way is the way, it's a way, and maybe there is some space for the Holy Spirit to move. 00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:12.880 And again, I'm not talking about extremes, you know what I'm talking about. 00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.359 Like yeah, we're talking about expressions, we're talking about expressions here. 00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.119 So I'm not talking about like doctrinal Jesus is the way, exactly. 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:20.240 It's very clear. 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:23.039 I'm not talking about anything when you want to take anything out of context. 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:31.599 I'm talking more or so about um expressions, and even when you look at like a lot of Paul's writings in regards to like like what is admissible. 00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:35.440 You have some people that are like, Man, you absolutely cannot drink. 00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:36.000 Okay. 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.319 You have other people that are like, hey, in moderation. 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:45.680 I I don't want to zero in on that specifically, but I think that's a good example of my my spiritual upbringing and how we understood a lot of those things. 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.079 It was like you abstain, you abstain, you abstain. 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.200 And and I get it. 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.799 But then you had other people that are like, man, it's it's not that big of a deal. 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.480 It's only a big deal if you make it a big deal. 00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:56.400 So so what is our responsibility to it? 00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:05.119 When I started traveling abroad and I started recognizing that a lot of the stuff that we get hung up about in America, that's not an issue. 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:12.640 And other places you realize, like, man, I wonder how much of my doctrine is influenced by culture more so than what God's word is really saying. 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:23.599 So I try my best to make a distinction between culture and kingdom because if we don't, we'll end up merging them together and now we're taking our culture and saying it's kingdom when the fact of the matter is it's not. 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:28.559 Yeah, and it's a great reminder to you know make the main thing the main thing. 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:34.799 And and I think in this instance, the main thing is by your by their fruit you shall know them. 00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:42.079 And kind of speaking of that, we get drop down into Galatians 5 and we get to the fruit of the spirit. 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.599 Um, first question for you is it fruit or fruits? 00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:50.880 Because there are several that he lists here, but it's m more so singular. 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.960 So how do we how do we view that? 00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:55.039 It's it's one spirit. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:00.079 Okay, and that spirit, basically, it's like one spirit, and that spirit produces fruit. 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:04.160 Yeah, and that fruit basically has these varying things that I like to call evidence. 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:11.039 This is the evidence that of the spirit, and the evidence of the spirit is love, joy, peace. 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:15.920 So it's not meant to be like we like to break it down in like these, okay, do I have love, do I have joy? 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:22.960 And I get it because Paul writes it that way, but he's not he's not giving us an exhaustive list that we look at as fruits, plural. 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:24.319 It's evidence. 00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:28.319 You have evidence that the spirit of God is with you, and here's the evidence of it that you have joy, peace. 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:33.119 And for him, Paul doesn't think in um in a linear way like we tend to think. 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:34.559 To him, it's all connected. 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.359 So he's saying, here's evident that someone is in spirit with God, they have love, they have joy, they have peace. 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:54.880 Now we're able to take that list and recognize that maybe because of the way we're wired, maybe um circumstances we've gone into, that maybe there's a deficit in some of those expressions more than in others, and that becomes an opportunity for us to be more aware of it and to try to sharpen ourselves in it. 00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:00.559 But it's it's one spirit, it's a fruit, but here's the evidence of the fruit in our lives, and those are the things that he breaks down for us. 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:07.359 Yeah, and you know, even before that, because he's talking a lot about the the spirit and the flesh, right? 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:12.559 That battle between the spirit and the flesh, or you know, the old man, new man, I guess you could say too. 00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:28.240 Um he's talking about what the fruit of living to satisfy your flesh looks like, and then he compares that with living to uh living to adhere to what the spirit is saying uh inside of you. 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:39.920 So if someone who is a believer looks at the list before and sees some of those things in their life, I can see how they would want to freak out, right? 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:41.200 Like, is the spirit with me? 00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:42.559