WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.000 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.720 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:20.640 What's up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of After the Message. 00:00:20.800 --> 00:00:25.280 Uh so glad that you are listening or watching or watching on our YouTube channel. 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:26.480 We've got to add that to the language. 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:27.359 That's right. 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:34.000 I am joined today again by uh the lead pastor of Celebration Church Orlando, Pastor Keith Pittman. 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:34.560 How are you, sir? 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:35.759 I am doing great, man. 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:40.079 I'm back in my best DJ Kellett impression for another one. 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:41.600 Another one, that's right. 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:52.799 And if you don't know what another one we're talking about, and if you happen to stumble on this podcast, you're on the Celebration Church Orlando podcast on a segment we like to call After the Message. 00:00:53.039 --> 00:01:02.240 And it's just simply a conversation of the sermons and the series that we are in here at Celebration Church Orlando. 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.760 And the series that we're in is Parakletos. 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:08.159 Yeah, I've every time we do these things, man. 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:09.200 Here's the thing. 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.480 Yeah because I genuinely never know what you're gonna ask me. 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.719 So people may think that we have like a whole like pre-conversation about this. 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:18.000 I don't know what I'm gonna ask you. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:22.239 So it's always interesting when like when I'll go back and I'll listen, I'm like, yeah, I feel like I did a good job. 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:23.680 So I don't know what you're gonna say. 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:25.359 So I'm just interested to see where this one goes. 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:26.239 Yeah, me too. 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:28.400 I'm really interested to see where this goes. 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:30.000 That's the most fun ones. 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.120 Because sometimes I'll have questions and I'm like, all right, this is a good one. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:35.359 And then some weeks I'm just like, let's just see what happens. 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.239 Yeah, let's just flow. 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:36.879 Yeah, for sure. 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:37.760 Let's be spirit-led. 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:40.959 Yes, absolutely. 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:52.560 Again, like we were saying, Parakletos, our um our series now where we're talking about the Holy Spirit, the Greek word for the Holy Spirit, the advocate, the comforter, the helper. 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:58.239 And before we move any further, I just really feel compelled by the spirit. 00:01:58.480 --> 00:01:59.359 Not really. 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:08.400 I want to shout out Bob Cadle because right now, what Bob Cadle is doing is he's live texting me the score of the Rays game because it's a day game, and I'm obviously here doing this. 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:09.599 You're just doing the work of the Lord. 00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:13.360 I'm doing the work of the Lord, and Bob is standing in the gap for me. 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:14.800 He's keeping you informed. 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.199 He's interceding on my behalf. 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:19.199 So shout out to Bob Cadle. 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:20.800 I hope you listen after the message. 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:22.240 I hope he'll he'll appreciate that. 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:22.960 For sure. 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.120 Um, but currently as it stands, the Rays are winning 2-0. 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.240 Anyways. 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.000 Who are they playing? 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:31.840 Uh the Pirates, Pittsburgh Pirates. 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:32.960 Uh showing squad. 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:33.199 Okay. 00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:33.520 Yeah. 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:35.599 So uh I'm not I'm not invested in that. 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:36.560 Yeah, it's okay. 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:36.960 That's all right. 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:39.599 If it was a Phillies, though, you know, it's a different conversation. 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:40.400 You know, you get it. 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:41.439 We get it. 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:55.280 Um so we're in our third week going into our fourth week of this series, and uh I kind of want to get your take on when we were mapping this out or when you were mind mapping it out. 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:59.439 Um are we are we where you thought we would be? 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:04.639 Do you think that we've kind of covered the ground that we you wanted to cover? 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:11.840 Do you feel like that there is more to say, hence the reason for after the message up until this point? 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:17.919 So I know you know uh in week two we had Pastor Chris, which hold on, let's talk about Pastor Chris. 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:19.280 Let's talk about Pastor Chris. 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:26.080 Tell the people about Pastor Chris and what he's meant to you and uh just hit your your your relationship. 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:27.520 Y'all have a great relationship, right? 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:28.560 We do, we do. 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:36.719 So um he, you know, when we introduced him, um, he helped start celebration just celebration church in general, which started in Jacksonville. 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:51.039 So he's been around for 25 years, I think, is is and so just his his wealth of knowledge, and and what I like to define him as is um Eugene Peterson has a book called uh A Long Obedience in the Same Direction. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:57.280 And and what I love about Pastor Chris is how um he's just a man of faith who's walked with God. 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:05.919 And and you know, you back up from when he got saved, which I guess is probably almost thirty years ago for Pastor Chris, um there were mega churches, there were large churches. 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:18.480 There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, but it's just yeah, the goal is not to be the biggest, the most flashiest, it's just to just follow God every day and to steward my life well and to steward my family well and steward what he's put in my hand so well. 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:30.639 And so in the world of uh social media and popularity and followers and influence, which is all okay, um, he's like a he's like an anchor for me of what it looks like to like, but you just you keep walking it out. 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.240 You keep you keep trusting God. 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:37.279 And so through the years of of me being at Celebration Church, he's just been a constant for me. 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:41.279 Like you just have some people that are just dependable, like you know what you're gonna get. 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:49.279 And not in a non-progressive, they're not growing way, but you just know you're gonna get encouragement, you know you're gonna get prayer, you're just gonna always get that from him. 00:04:49.439 --> 00:05:05.759 So I I hope to be that type of person um now, but also when my journey continues on in ministry and and and mentoring and whatever, it's just man, if someone can come to me and know what they're gonna get, they're gonna get some humor, I'm gonna laugh, but at the same time, you just know that you're gonna get this from me. 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:07.600 That's what he is for me, is just a constant. 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:27.839 Yeah, and speaking of kind of his um his conversion story, if you will, he shared that with us the the week that he preached, and a really powerful story and a testament to um just the Holy Spirit being the one to kind of initiate um a relationship with God. 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:39.360 And I think sometimes we we often say the phrase like I found God, you know, and we've we forget the fact that that God is always kind of pursuing us uh and coming after us. 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:59.120 And so that was really that was a cool moment for me to to kind of hear he wasn't really looking for anything, you know, and but he felt like he felt like man, there's gotta be something more, and and I think if we're all if we're all honest, none of us were really looking for God, you know, like God's the one who who came after us and even sent his son for us. 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:03.600 But he uh one thing that he did touch on was sanctification, yeah. 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:08.959 And and I kind of want to talk about that a little bit and what that means. 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:15.519 Uh, you know, maybe someone didn't necessarily listen to to the message that week, or maybe they just kind of joined us on the podcast here. 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:20.480 But he talked about sanctification because that is a huge role that the Holy Spirit plays in our life. 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:25.360 Can you touch on what sanctification is and what that process looks like for a believer? 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:27.600 Yeah, one, it it never ends. 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:27.920 Yep. 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:33.600 It's like so just let's just say it from it's not a box that we check off um in our spiritual development. 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:42.560 Ultimately, if I could say what sanctification is in in its simplest terms, it's the it's the journey of us becoming more and more like Christ every day. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:59.439 And and and ultimately, the where I'm at now, and as I'm continuing to engage in God's word and can engage in community and do the things of God, follow the ways of Jesus, um, the way that I look spiritually, and even in the way that I express my spirituality, it should look different. 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.199 I should, I should, I should my temper should at some point begin to taper off. 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:05.680 That certain behaviors should begin to adjust a little bit. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:06.959 We won't reach perfection. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:12.480 So sanctification is the process of becoming more and more like Jesus every day as I follow the ways of Jesus. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:24.720 And so the role of the Holy Spirit and all of that is one, not only does he draw us to Christ, uh, but then as we are reading the Word of God, he's the one that's bringing revelation, he's the one that's ordering our steps to community, he's the one that leads us to our church. 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:29.759 Like he's so active in all of the aspects of us growing spiritually, that's what ultimately it is. 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:36.079 So I think that that's a very, very reduced, simple term of it, but it's just us going on that journey of becoming more and more like Christ every day. 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:56.319 Yeah, and you know, you even mentioned there that it's not about achieving perfection because on the front end is justification, which is what Pastor Chris talked about, which is where we are uh in essence made right before God, um, and we are um we are justified or we are declared righteous, right? 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:04.879 So uh someone could look at that and go, okay, well, if I'm declared righteous, and if I'm declared just before God, what's the need for sanctification? 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:07.519 What's the need for becoming more like Christ? 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:12.160 Because if we're gonna claim that Christ was perfect, I can never reach perfection. 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:15.199 Why should there even be a process for that in the first place? 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:15.519 Yeah. 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:17.519 I don't know if you've ever chewed on that. 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.120 I know I have before too, but but what's your take on that? 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:27.439 Yeah, I think it's it's you know, justification is is being put back in your rightful place. 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:33.840 So uh, you know, a little spin on it would be justified, never sinned, just kind of getting back to our rightful place. 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:41.360 So ultimately, quick quick Bible lesson is when sinner entered the picture, we lost our rightful place in the eyes of God. 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:42.639 Sin became this barrier. 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:44.080 So you can see this in Genesis. 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:50.639 And so then God's redemptive plan um kicks in, we kind of start seeing this progress through the Old Testament, fully expressed through Jesus. 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:52.720 And so now we're back in right standing. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.720 That barrier of sin is no longer there. 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.240 However, from the very beginning, God created us in his image. 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:04.720 That meant to reflect his character, to reflect his nature, to be people that are in partnership with his will. 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:16.399 And so, if we're honest with ourselves, that even though we fall short because we're still in our carnal, um, we're still in our flesh, we're still on this side of eternity, um, but we're still called to reflect the image of God. 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.960 So it's the sanctification process is is acknowledging that I'm back in my rightful place. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:28.159 Like I I essentially, just by nature of being born after sin, um I carry sin. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.000 You carry sin, we carry sin. 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:46.799 But sin no longer separates us from God because Jesus became the ultimate sacrifice for it, but there's still work to be done, and I still have a responsibility to reflect the image of God because now um our assignment in a world that's so far from God is to be representatives or to be mirrors that reflect Him. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:55.759 And so if I'm not doing anything that looks like God, how are we bringing redemption to a world that still needs to know what the gospel means and that God is for them and that that God loves them? 00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.799 How do we do that if I don't, if I'm not set apart in some way? 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:00.159 So that's why we do it. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:06.399 It's more than just about us, it's about the collective of humanity, and we all have a part to play to help people get to get to the right side of heaven. 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:06.960 That's right. 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:13.600 And speaking of heaven, the last the last part of the Asians, um the the glorification. 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:15.840 Yeah, the the glory of the Lord. 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.759 The glorification process. 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:26.879 Um, which uh side note, if you weren't here for Pastor Chris's sermon or you didn't check it out, go check it out because he has a great story about the glory of the Lord. 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.200 I won't share it here, but you just need to watch that. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.519 But anyways, the Shekinah glory. 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:43.360 So the glorification process, that you know, when you know Paul says that if Christ didn't raise, you know, that there is no resurrection, then what are we even doing here? 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:52.320 The whole point is to be redeemed, to be resurrected, to have things, as you mentioned, put back into its rightful place, the way that God originally intended. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:52.879 Yep. 00:10:53.200 --> 00:11:06.879 I've often wondered, and I don't know if there is scripture to support this or not, but what state, and there could be a lot of speculation, but are we perfected in a sense? 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:16.720 Like, do we do we have, you know, Paul also says, you know, I see through broken glass uh you know, dimly, uh, but then I'll see the full picture. 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:17.519 What does that mean? 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:24.159 Because as a kid, I used to think, okay, well, I'll be I'll know everything, you know, or I'll be perfect and I'll never mess up again. 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:30.399 And then I started thinking, well, Adam and Eve, they didn't mess up, and then they messed up, so can I get kicked out of heaven? 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:39.120 You know, so for somebody who's kind of like wrestling with the glorification process, if you will, do you do you have any uh comment on on that? 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:42.639 So it's it's there's a lot that's under that umbrella. 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:54.159 So from a from a physical standpoint, um Jesus' resurrected body is an example of what a glorified body will look like. 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:54.399 Okay. 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.799 In other words, it's he's recognizable. 00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:58.320 Um he could be touched. 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:02.559 Because a lot of times people were like, okay, was Jesus a is he just a is he a phantom? 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:04.960 Like what like when we are is that what it's gonna be? 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.559 But no, like the resurrection was meant to be a bodily resurrection. 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:33.759 So I was brought up um in a church context where it was important for us to say bodily resurrection, because that could be a that could turn into a phrase of like, oh yeah, we're all gonna be resurrected, we'll all be restored, but but bodily resurrection is meant to really communicate that no, we will physically be resurrected and we will have a body like Christ that's identifiable, um, that can be touched, um, but that also basically transcends the laws of physics. 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:43.759 Um, meaning, you know, the disciples were in a room and the scriptures go out of its way to say, and the door was closed, and then in one moment Jesus is standing in a room, he's like, Hey, peace be unto you. 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:45.120 Like, where'd he come from? 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:48.159 Like, so I'm not saying that we're all gonna be able to do that. 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:51.759 Scripture doesn't say that, but what it does say is that Jesus just shows up. 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:52.000 Right. 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.000 So I think that that's an aspect of it. 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:56.080 So that's a part of the glorified body. 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:08.720 Also, Paul describes that our corruption must put on incorruption, meaning, meaning that our corruptible bodies that are flawed, that are decaying, when he speaks about the glorified body, he's speaking about a body that won't decay. 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.960 He's speaking about a body that won't um that won't get sick or broken down. 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:15.360 So that's where we get this idea of like perfect health. 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:22.720 But then also he speaks about this body that can literally sustain the presence of God. 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:29.039 So so what he's ultimately saying is that right now, this is why you read in scripture and it says that no flesh shall glory in my presence. 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:29.840 This is scripture. 00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:37.919 And what scripture is saying is that our our flawed and our flawed state, if God were to reveal his true glory, none of us could stand it. 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.360 Our bodies aren't even designed to handle uh the glory of the Lord. 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:48.399 So this is why when um in John's gospel, when when they came to arrest Jesus, he's the only one that gives an account for this. 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.799 And he's like, yo, like, who are you looking for? 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.320 Looking for Jesus. 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:53.279 I am. 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.879 And what happens is when he says that, it says that they fall down. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.759 And what they're saying is that, you know, I'll just use modern language, that was like Jesus' flex. 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:08.000 Like, I'm here, but let me give you a flash of my glory to let you know that no, no flesh shall glory in my presence if I didn't allow it. 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.440 I'm going with you because I choose to. 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.600 So he was able to give that flesh to him. 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:25.120 Even when we see in Matthew 17 and what we call the Mount Transfiguration, when Jesus is up on a mountain and like it says that he's beaming with light and like this this radiance that's coming from him, it's like the glory of God is just hard for us to wrap our minds around. 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:31.919 So, what Paul presents to us is that when we get our glorified bodies, we will be able to sustain the presence of God. 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:45.600 I'm pretty sure he's still gonna dial it down for us because when you think about the throne room that um that scripture describes, it speaks about how angels still got their eyes covered, and it's like there's still there's still a reverence that they that they have that they function with. 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:53.440 So I don't know how that all that's gonna shake out, um, but I do know that the the presence of God will be something that we can sustain because we'll have bodies that are conditioned to do it. 00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:58.559 The the last thing that I'll say in regards to um can we get kicked out of heaven? 00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:00.080 Um let's say this. 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:00.720 I hope not. 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:15.200 Yeah, uh, but but but but the the scriptural reinforcement that I would have for that is that um in in Revelation it speaks about how um how ultimately death um and sin will ultimately be be cast out. 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:16.159 Excuse me. 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:18.159 They'll be they'll be prison bound. 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:20.960 Excuse me, this is wrong. 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:30.720 Um what that means is that is that sin, like every if you think about sin and death and all the things that we go through, that it's it's it's available to us. 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.120 Road is dry, Nate. 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:35.279 I'm seeing your drink over there. 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.360 Um but at the end, it's all gonna be contained. 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:45.440 So I don't think the possibility or the desire to sin to get kicked out will even be there because it will all be contained and thrown away. 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:46.000 Right. 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:49.519 Yeah, and um you good? 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:50.799 Good. 00:15:51.039 --> 00:16:06.159 Um I think that uh that's an important that's an important distinction is the the the desire to do so isn't even gonna be so it's not even gonna enter our mind because we're gonna be enamored and in awe of God and his glory. 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:17.120 And I think something else that you mentioned uh I think it was the week prior that you mentioned when you or maybe it was even in after the message we were talking about the Trinity. 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:24.559 Uh you were even saying that our our understanding or our doctrine of the Trinity even falls short. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:31.440 And it's it's just an attempt to try and grasp onto something that that can't be grasped onto. 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:37.679 So I I can't even imagine um what it would be like to to be in God's presence like that, but we'll find out. 00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:38.639 We'll get there a minute. 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:39.440 We'll find out. 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:56.639 I just know that um what the way that Revelation describes heaven and when heaven and earth come together, and just like the beauty of this unbroken fellowship, and there's no longer any division, there's no more death, there's no more suffering, there's no more pain as the revelation describes it. 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.639 It's like, and it says, and we will be sustained by Jesus. 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.079 So when you wrap your mind around that, you think about what sustains us now. 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:10.079 We have so many things, we have sunlight, we have we have food, we have water, we have all these things. 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:15.759 But Revelation says that none of those things will be necessary because we will be sustained by Jesus. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.880 So there will be no desire for anything. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:22.400 There will be no, like and it doesn't mean that we're just gonna be like these spiritual robots, right? 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:28.720 It speaks about fellowship and we're recognizable, we're having fun, but at the same time, we are sustained, like we we're good. 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:43.839 So I think that that's why there will be no desire to do anything else because we're fully in the presence of God and and there's no desire for anything else except for to have fellowship, and you're not just you've never been in a spot where you've been so into something that you're not distracted by anything else. 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:50.319 Probably when you're looking into the eyes of your precious baby boy Grady, yeah, like time stands like you're just you're just with them. 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:54.160 Like imagine that times a number that we can't even come up with. 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.640 Yeah, that's what it'll be like, like nothing else matters. 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:57.279 Yeah. 00:17:57.680 --> 00:18:10.880 This uh this past Sunday we we went back into um or we kind of evolved our series into uh the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and also briefly touched on the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:18.559 But at the at the front end of the message, you talked about how um Jesus brought a gospel that was for all people. 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:27.680 And then you you kind of challenged our thinking in a little bit to where if you have a gospel that's not for all people, then it's not the gospel of Jesus. 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:36.640 Um or if your version of Jesus isn't, as he said, lines up with what the scriptures say about him, um then it's not Jesus. 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:52.880 Uh we we talk about this, you know, in different uh contexts and variations throughout the podcast, but um I guess A, what what were you meaning by if your gospel, are there other gospels that you're referring to or other ways of thought that you're referring to? 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.119 And B, how did we get here? 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:07.200 You know, is it just a is it just a product of of of sin nature or it like why are there so many different variations when we're all supposedly reading the same Bible? 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:14.400 I I think it's it's um I think it comes down to what people feel like their responsibility is to it. 00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:24.720 Um you know, I'm not necessarily a really big historian in a sense of like looking at every every documentary or any or things like that. 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:39.039 However, when I do look at history and I look at some of the dark times, um, and there are many within the Christian faith of of uh invading countries and forcing and and genuinely feeling like that's our assignment, like when Jesus says go out, like this is what that meant. 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.720 That meant coming out and forcing people to be baptized and all that stuff. 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:50.880 They they thought they were doing what God was calling them to do, but they were forcing a gospel that wasn't delivered in any way that looks remotely like the way that Jesus did it. 00:19:51.359 --> 00:20:05.200 So that's what I'm referring to is that we we have a gospel, we have a gospel of grace and peace, and and we're presenting Jesus and and leading people for them to recognize that that that he's the solution and all of that, and that takes time. 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:13.039 But unfortunately, when you when you become a person that that feels like you have to force it on people, you just become a colonizer, a spiritual colonizer. 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:17.839 Like I'm just gonna invade your world, I'm gonna force this on you, and we just don't see that in the ways of Jesus. 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:27.519 So in in the context of what I'm saying is when when Jesus was announced to the shepherds, and they said, Hey, I bring to you good news, then this is good news for all people. 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:34.400 Like that language of all people regarding the gospel is is so subtle, but it's all throughout um the New Testament. 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:41.039 Reason being is because it's meant for us to understand that sometimes we can feel like we have a we have the trademark on it. 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:53.279 And when I feel like I have a trademark on Jesus, not only do I have my own self-defined um way in which he functions, but then I can force him on you or you don't have access to him unless you think like I think. 00:20:53.599 --> 00:21:02.400 And that's when you get into the the merging of of nationalism and a whole bunch of other things that become super unhealthy, where yeah, I got the good news. 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.000 And if you're one of those people, it's not good for you unless you become like us. 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:08.880 The truth of the matter is Jesus is for all people. 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:18.799 And then as they begin to engage him, and yes, we're teaching truth, and yes, we're presenting scripture, but the Holy Spirit, again, this is that sanctification process, it begins to work on people's hearts. 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:30.160 But whenever you force a Jesus onto people who are broken, who are away from him, and you're expecting them to behave as if they have a relationship with him, but they don't, but you're forcing him on them, it's not going to produce fruit. 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:40.720 But unfortunately, we do have people who feel like my gospel is the only expression of what it means, and it doesn't look anything like Jesus, but I still feel justified and feeling I need to force it on other people. 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:42.640 That's just not something that we see in scripture. 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:52.480 Yeah, and you know, this the idea of o overcomplicating the gospel and and and making it something to be that it's not. 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:59.759 Uh we were also kind of talking earlier in in a staff meeting, too, about um and and you were you were careful. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:12.880 To point out, like this isn't a cartoon, but uh just the two voices that that we can hear, and we you you even refer to it on Sunday uh as you know the spirit and the flesh, how they're how they're battling one another. 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:23.440 So I just I just often wonder in those moments of when somebody thinks that they're doing the right thing, perhaps they're listening to the wrong voice. 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:24.559 Yeah, you know what I mean? 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:30.720 Perhaps that they they they read the scripture and they interpret it a certain way, but they don't really consult God with it. 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:38.640 Or maybe they're just not um maybe they're just a little bit ignorant to the context of what it's trying to say. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:51.839 How do you how do you develop a a healthy uh understanding of scripture, number one, and number two, how do you involve the Holy Spirit in your reading of Scripture? 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:58.240 I start with um because we all bring um we we all bring a context to scripture. 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:09.440 And that context could either be our traditions, what we were already taught, our perspective, we all kind of bring whatever we have with us to scripture, and then we can like read it into the text. 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:23.119 So over the past probably 10 years, I've I've really worked very hard personally to make sure, like, man, like let me try to check as much of my as much of my um my preconceived notions at the door. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:29.039 Again, it's it's it's almost impossible to see where that ends and where the other one begins. 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:32.079 But I think it's it's a it's an exercise that's worth doing. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:38.000 The way that I often will check my heart is I'll say, what if I'm wrong? 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:46.559 And and I and I I think like that, even in conversations, but I genuinely when it comes to reading God's word, and I'll come to a conclusion, I'll say, okay, but what if I'm wrong? 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:53.759 And and what that question does for me is it forces me to then read it in the through the lens of me needing to prove it. 00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:59.680 Um, and so that helps me to at least say, okay, what would someone who has a different perspective say about this? 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:00.799 How would they feel about this? 00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:10.880 It doesn't mean that it changes what I feel, but it it helps me to at least approach my revelation with a measure of humility versus I got it all figured out, let me sh let me ram it down your throat. 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.559 It's more so like, man, what if I'm wrong? 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:19.519 Let me look at it from and that challenges me to have questions that maybe in my always feeling like I'm right, that I typically wouldn't ask. 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.519 But when I ask myself, what if I'm wrong? 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:28.720 Then I start asking questions that can allow me to go down rabbit trails to either reinforce what I believe or to shift from what I believe. 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:40.480 Uh this this the portion of scripture that you use what in John was saying that um Jesus said that he is everything that you need. 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:46.559 And to me, that could that could look like an oversimplification for someone like standing on the outside. 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:48.319 Well, how is Jesus everything I need? 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:53.839 Because I obviously need oxygen, or I, you know, I I need money to survive, all these things. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:25:06.240 And so I kind of, as you just mentioned, I kind of was putting myself into a person's shoes who may not really have a a background in Christianity or a background uh in the Bible. 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.359 But how would you explain that to somebody, you know, Jesus claiming to be everything that you need? 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:20.000 Because for them, he was saying you you mentioned the context of the festival that they were in and the living water, and you can touch a little bit more on that if you want, because I think that's fascinating as well. 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.920 But um, to start off with, in a modern context, what does that mean? 00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:25.680 Jesus is everything that I need. 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:33.599 Yeah, so there's there's different schools of thought on what human beings need categorically. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:45.279 Um, and so there's um there's uh Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and and that's kind of like this five-point pyramid that talks about like how we all need safety, how we all need um basic provision. 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.799 And so, yes, there's details under that umbrella that speaks to that. 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.920 It talks about how we all need to have some measure of acceptance and love. 00:25:52.079 --> 00:26:03.039 And so the pyramid continues to work up and it has some specifics, but there are themes that ultimately are saying, but this is what it, this is what you need in order to feel satisfied as a as a human being. 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:08.559 So I'm more so speaking of the categories, not the specifics of oxygen and all these other things. 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.920 I'm talking about, man, we all need to feel validated. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.480 Jesus is gonna be the one that's gonna give us validation. 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.279 We all need to feel um like we have purpose. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.359 Jesus is gonna be the one that gives us our purpose. 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:28.880 So it's more so looking at it from um this bigger existential perspective, um, not getting into the weeds of, man, Jesus is all I need, so I guess I'm gonna eat today. 00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:33.599 Like, no, you you you you need to do those things, but Jesus is gonna be the one that's gonna help you to feel safe. 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:55.839 He's gonna help you uh to feel um as if you have value because if if it doesn't come from him, then it becomes very finite, it becomes very circumstantial, and that's why you find that we're looking in the wrong places trying to get validation from people that one aren't authorized to provide it for us, um, and then two, um, are so inconsistent that it can leave us at a place where we're feeling um that there's a deficit at any given moment. 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:05.599 Or we can also turn to ourselves, we let ourselves down, yeah, and then we get frustrated because we think that we're all that matters in the first place. 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:17.039 But um let's talk about the baptism of the Holy Spirit uh really quick, or not really quick, we have time, uh but the baptism of the Holy Spirit. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:24.960 So to me, it sounds like it's a a pinpointable, if that's a word, moment in time. 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:40.480 Um you know, we look at the indwelling of the spirit, which you explained as being uh the moment that a person uh receives salvation uh upon you know becoming uh a child of God, they're immediately indwelled with the Holy Spirit, right? 00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:40.799 Yep. 00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:53.839 The distinction of the baptism of the Holy Spirit seems like uh it's when the Spirit comes upon you, and usually it manifests itself in gifts for the most part, right? 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.359 Or or am I mistaken in that? 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:57.920 Yeah, it's it's it's both in. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:27:58.160 Okay. 00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:59.119 It's it's both in. 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.039 It's not meant to be, you know, I'm literally preaching on this this Sunday. 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:03.519 Oh, okay. 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:10.160 Um, so I'll I'll try not to give too much info because I think I'll unpack it with a lot more detail. 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:17.920 But what I'll say is it's not meant to be like, okay, the Spirit of God is on you, um, the clock is ticking, it's gonna run off. 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:21.759 You have a manifestation, and then okay, hopefully the spirit will come upon you again. 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:24.880 Um it's it's not really meant to be that. 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.559 Now, there are moments where there's outpouring and there's there's there's filling. 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:34.000 Paul says, be continuously filled by the spirit, which which insinuates that it's not a one-time deal. 00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.359 So again, this gets into a whole lot of deeper doctrinal things. 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:43.440 What I'll say is that yes, there are manifestation of what I will call supernatural gifts that are possible. 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:49.920 We see this in um um in Acts chapter 2, Day of Pentecost, Holy Spirit comes and and we have these powerful things. 00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:58.000 But also when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, there is an activation of things that are already on the inside of us for the point of serving others. 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:03.759 So, yes, when we become followers of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, that's that's for me. 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:10.079 This is for me, and it helps me to go through the sanctification process and it helps me to begin to bear the fruit of the spirit. 00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:16.960 But then there's also gifts that God has given me, whether it be, man, I just wired Nate to be a great communicator. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:19.279 I just, that's a gift that I've that you've been given. 00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:23.359 Okay, I have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and that's for my sanctification process. 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:30.480 But when you have the the Holy Spirit on you or the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that's God activating the gifts that He's given you as well. 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.079 So there's the gifts that He's given you, and then there's the supernatural gifts that comes with it. 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:47.200 And so I know it can muddy the waters a little bit, and so we're gonna have in this series not only um a teaching on what I just shared, but then we'll also have an equipment that I'll unpack this in even more detail to kind of help bring as much clarity to it as possible. 00:29:47.359 --> 00:30:03.599 But it's not just the prophetic gifts and all, like it's that that's the supernatural comes on from the Holy Spirit, and and and sometimes people are graced with that for an instant, for an instance, or sometimes God just gives you the mantle of that, like, okay, I'm gracing you with the mantle of being a prophet. 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:09.759 So Elijah, like you're wearing the mantle, like the Holy Spirit came upon him, but he just carried the mantle of a prophet. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:14.640 But then you have other people who may be just given the gift of prophecy, and that may happen in one instance. 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:25.039 Um, so it just all depends on how God wants to function and how he wants to flow, but it's not meant to be because of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, it has to have this supernatural expression. 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.680 I think it's I think it's far more nuanced than that. 00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:33.680 I think that's way too transactional to say the Holy Spirit comes, you have this, but what about the gifts that he's empowering as well? 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:44.319 Like there's gotta be a way for us to um to to be able to pull that all together, and so that's how I view it is Holy Spirit comes on us for others, but there's also some gifts that God has given us. 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:46.240 It empowers us to do what he's calling us to do. 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:52.000 There's also the supernatural gifts that are are are just groundbreaking, and so they all work together. 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.400 So, what you're saying is I jumped ahead a little bit, I jumped the gun on that a little bit. 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.279 Hey man, but it's good. 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:57.680 Okay, good. 00:30:57.839 --> 00:30:58.079 It's good. 00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:58.400 It's good. 00:30:58.720 --> 00:30:59.279 We're gonna get into it. 00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:00.640 So let's rewind then. 00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:11.839 Let's go back to we were you mentioned the the Corinthians church, the Corinthian church, um, and you you said in a very uh rich theological manner that they were a hot mess. 00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:12.640 Yes. 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.039 So what what's going on? 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:28.880 What what's happening in Corinth and and and why why is why does Paul have to which by the by the way, I saw this really funny thing on the internet that said um this guy said if if Paul was here today, the tr the American church would be getting a letter. 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:29.920 I thought that was funny. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.359 So I believe it's true. 00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.880 Um absolutely he'll probably this might be like a three-volume letter. 00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.519 You know how 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, like I think this might have been. 00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.599 This has been like third America, fourth America, like stopping. 00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:54.000 So um, so for the Corinthian church, man, there's a lot of things going on, and and and this just speaks to the the beauty and the complexity and the messiness of the gospel. 00:31:54.160 --> 00:32:01.599 So, so when when Jesus is preached, and again, it's for all people, so this wasn't just for Jews, but it was also for Gentiles. 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:16.400 And so when you have like Gentiles being introduced to this, to this God, the the that Yahweh, the the this is the one, the way, the truth, the life, like they have the baggage of all these other paganistic beliefs that they had with them. 00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:26.559 So, but they've they've come to a saving knowledge of Jesus, like they've they've got something inside of them has drawn them and recognizes that that Christ is for them and and and they surrender to that. 00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:33.759 But now they're kind of of that camp that you and I were talking about earlier, like, well, man, I'm saved, so why does it even matter what I do? 00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:41.680 So they're still bringing a lot of their traditions, a lot of their behaviors that were very contrary to um kingdom behavior. 00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:51.119 So that the Corinthian church, man, quite candidly, they would still like so first and second Corinthians are Paul's most direct, corrective letters. 00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:51.359 Okay. 00:32:51.599 --> 00:33:01.759 So much so that he felt bad about it, that the rebukes were so strong from their perspective that they even questioned, man, who are you to tell me what to do? 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:09.519 So his letter in 2 Corinthians, you can see that he's trying to he's trying to qualify why he had the authority to write 1 Corinthians. 00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.039 Because they were like, yo, that was harsh. 00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:14.000 And so he even says, man, it breaks my heart that I had to write you this harsh letter. 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:15.519 But let me tell you why I did it. 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.680 Um and and so the context was is that man, like they were having communion. 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:28.880 So when you hear when you read in in um in 1 Corinthians, when they're talking about the the decorum of communion and the behavior that's there, that's because they were doing the opposite. 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.960 They they were they were getting drunk and having orgies for communion. 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:39.119 So Paul's like, I hey guys, listen, um, that's not what this is for. 00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.599 Like, we we can't continue to function this way. 00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:45.440 Paul's giving them directions on on what marriage is supposed to look like. 00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:48.720 And hey man, like, sons, you you can't sleep with mothers. 00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:50.079 You like you can't sleep with your mom. 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.880 Like, you I I hate that I have to address this, right? 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:54.160 But but you can't do that. 00:33:54.240 --> 00:34:03.839 Like, it was so corrupt and just so carnal that he had to address these things because they had gotten, they were just being who they were, but they were just also acknowledging Jesus. 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:05.440 So that's what Paul was writing to. 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:12.079 He's trying to say, Yes, you're accepted, you're loved, and you're on this journey, but you still have work to do. 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.280 There's still a lifestyle that is expected of a person. 00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:20.079 You're not condemned because of your mistakes, but we have to start living a life that reflects who Jesus was. 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:31.599 Do you think there is a degree to that, a degree of that, maybe not that um explicit, but in the mindset of the American church at all? 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:38.800 The just the idea of compartmentalization of Jesus, but I'm okay type thing? 00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:42.320 Yeah, I feel like um I feel like it comes in waves. 00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:42.800 Okay. 00:34:43.039 --> 00:34:45.840 So you have different so this is where you have denominations. 00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:51.199 And so you have some camps that um that like that lean heavily on holiness. 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:55.360 There's nothing wrong with that, but it it turns into something that could become legalistic. 00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:07.440 Now, now the the thing that I often wrestled with is for a person who doesn't have any kingdom standards, living with kingdom standards can be perceived as legalistic to them. 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.000 So if you just are choosing to live with basic kingdom standards, like, man, don't be legalistic. 00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:16.079 Like, I'm not, but at the same time, like there is something that God expects of us. 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:26.559 Um so I do think depending on what camp you're in, and depending on what denomination, if that's what you want to call it, or or what you're bringing, whatever your makeup is, that that plays a major part. 00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:30.880 So I think that that's something that exists um in every country. 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:33.039 But if we're looking at the American church, absolutely. 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:47.280 So I do think that as we have gotten far more um open-minded and in all the things that can kind of go along with that, that somehow we believe that that grace sometimes negates God's standards. 00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.000 But I believe that that that grace actually empowers us to live up to God's standards. 00:35:52.239 --> 00:36:01.039 And I think if we could begin to look at it in a sense of like, man, I'm forgiven, so it doesn't matter, it's more so I'm forgiven, and God's giving me his spirit so that I can live a life that matters. 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:04.960 If we could just shift it a little bit, then I think we can actually become overcomers. 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:12.320 But it's only when we choose to use grace as a crutch to continue to sin instead of um empowerment so that we can live in victory. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:18.960 The different camps that you kind of speak of, if you let's say that you were able to bring them all together, right? 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:27.679 And and Keith Pittman was on center stage to be able to talk to to talk to everybody and to provide encouragement for all the camps in the American church. 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:30.880 Do you have anything that that's kind of on your heart that you that you would say? 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.559 I mean, one, I don't know if I would be qualified to do it. 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:37.039 Um because man, I'm we're all just trying to figure it out. 00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:37.199 Right. 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:39.199 Like, man, we're we're all just doing our best. 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:55.599 I think um I would I would really just what breaks my heart more than anything, and again, I'm not sitting in a seat of having it all figured out because we all have our our things, is the amount of division that that we have. 00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:04.239 And and what I would say to the American church is stop being the American church. 00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:10.239 What I mean by that is in anything that we put in front of God is an idol. 00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:17.119 So there's times where I see that we kind of have like an Americanized version of the gospel. 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:25.519 But here's the problem if if I have a gospel that doesn't translate outside of America, then I have a gospel that's not kingdom. 00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:31.679 The kingdom doesn't it doesn't need those things because it's it's it's universal, it goes everywhere. 00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:40.320 So if I have like so this is why I have such an issue um with being obsessed with politics, because the same political structures we have here don't exist in other countries. 00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:41.760 So what does that mean for them? 00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:44.800 So that's why I'm saying don't get obsessed about things that we've created. 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:57.920