WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.080 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.800 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.079 And with that, we're back. 00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:19.839 After the message. 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:24.000 What's up, everybody? 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:25.679 Welcome to After the Message. 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:39.600 Um, if you're stumbling upon this podcast, this is the Celebration Church Orlando podcast, and you are listening to After the Message, a segment of the podcast that talks about the previous Sunday's sermon. 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:45.039 Although I will give a heads up that we're gonna be talking a lot more than the previous Sunday sermon. 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:45.759 All right. 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:50.640 We're gonna be talking about the conclusion of our signs series. 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:51.520 Yep. 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.240 And if you've been following along with Celebration Church, excuse me. 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:12.959 If you've been following along with Celebration Church for uh the past seven weeks, we've been in an immersive special series called Signs, where we've been taking a look at some of the miracles in the Gospel of John. 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:21.519 And before we move any further, I'd like to introduce one of the masterminds behind this series, my brother Vinny. 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:23.280 Hello, guys. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.959 Thank you for having me back after months. 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:34.640 I was waiting, waiting for a phone call, for a text message, for a base camp, uh ping, whatever. 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:48.400 Should we should we rewind history just a few weeks and s and and realize that I asked you to come on earlier, right? 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:49.040 Yeah. 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.400 But life. 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:51.040 Life. 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:51.439 Yes. 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:58.159 Well, just make I think it's very important to let everybody know that when you invited me, I was here. 00:01:58.480 --> 00:01:59.120 That's true. 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:01.519 So but life happened. 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:02.480 That's true. 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:04.400 Life's always happening. 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:06.159 Unexpected things. 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:07.359 Unexpected things. 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:11.120 Like this morning, something unexpected happened. 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:11.840 Oh, yeah. 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.400 Why don't you go ahead and share with the people before we get into uh today's discussion? 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.960 Well well, a very nice team member, uh Mr. 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:34.319 John Stevens, just invited me to one and a forty minute flight in uh Cessna 182 P airplane, and it was amazing. 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:42.240 It was my first uh experience flying a small in a small airplane, and it was amazing. 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:47.759 I was um of course a little bit worried last night. 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:58.960 Um, not because I don't trust Joan, it's more like I don't trust technology, but it turned out it turned out very nice, it was amazing. 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:00.879 Um great experience. 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:09.599 We flew from Sanford to Daytona and uh Tuttsville, and uh it was it was good, yeah. 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:11.520 You're here, you're in one piece. 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:12.400 You made it. 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:13.120 Made it. 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:14.080 I mean alive. 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:21.439 You're live, serving the Lord, serving the Lord, ready for his purpose, whatever it is for me to accomplish. 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:22.560 Right on. 00:03:22.800 --> 00:03:39.919 Let's talk about let's let's rewind time a little bit and talk about kind of the beginning of this process when we were thinking about what we wanted to do uh with the sign series before it was even called the sign series. 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:47.680 Um but just kind of take us through that process a little bit about deciding, hey, I think it would be good to go through John. 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.159 We all kind of collectively decided that it would be a great gospel to go through. 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:54.560 So take us through that thought process a little bit. 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:59.680 Uh I think um sorry guys, we have no COVID. 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:04.319 We just we're just uh making weird noises, but we're we're healthy. 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:14.000 I think Lindsay um asked me months ago um to be thinking about uh um fall series. 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:21.199 I pray about it and I had at least 15 ideas that maybe in the future. 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:23.680 Fifteen around 15. 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:32.720 So we shared a little bit, and uh one of the ideas was uh what about we talk about the miracles in John? 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:47.120 And of course we all had a conversation about it, and we decided that it would be a good idea because it's such a such an easy gospel to read, um very interesting, very unique. 00:04:47.519 --> 00:05:08.959 Um the majority of the signs we studied in the past seven weeks, we can we only find it in John, which is which is amazing, and also the way he describes Jesus and how he brings this amazing idea of uh Jesus being God. 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.759 And uh I think it's I think it was great. 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:25.199 And actually, this is every time someone asks me, Oh, I want to start reading the Bible where should I where should I start? 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.720 And uh I always recommend starting in John because I think it's so easy to read. 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:57.199 And so it was it was great, and then of course we decided to do one miracle per week and um having the journal to um you know help everybody to understand what's happening between the Sundays and bring more context of um yeah, Jesus' lives and you know, so I think it was I think it was a great experience for all of us. 00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:57.680 Yeah. 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:08.319 Can you kind of talk about uh the the process a little bit with deciding the context, like what context should we bring to the journal? 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:14.720 Like how how do we decide like what to put in because it's it could be endless possibilities, right? 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:30.000 Like and I'm sure that was difficult to kind of drill down like man, what what do we want to accomplish throughout the week leading up to Sunday so that it's the message on Sunday is more impactful and and it's more holistic. 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:35.759 How how was that process and and what what led you to uh the final product? 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:44.800 I think I I think the very first thing, of course, we always had to align spec uh expectations. 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:56.399 Um I was thinking more of a devotional journal, and then of course, uh some of us wanted some something a little bit more interactive. 00:06:57.040 --> 00:07:02.560 So we we try to have both in one um in one piece. 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:09.600 So part of it is just devotional, so you just read about uh what we consider that would be beneficial. 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:22.720 So we're talking a little bit about traditions, we're talking a little bit about uh words in Greek, we're talking a little bit about what was important in that context. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:34.160 Um that's the devotional part of it, and of course, the journal part of it is us just trying to give everybody an opportunity to interact with the material. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:44.399 Um, basically, the whole idea was we don't want to write this, we want we want you guys to write this with us to be a very unique piece that makes sense for you. 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:51.839 Um and it was it was uh crazy just sharing with you a testimony. 00:07:52.240 --> 00:08:00.720 Um one of the Saturdays I wrote, I was very unsatisfied with what I wrote. 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:06.399 Um I liked the general idea, but the writing, I was like, uh, I don't know about that. 00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:16.079 So I spent hours in one in one specific Saturday in our journal trying to write what was in my heart in the best way possible. 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:17.600 And then I gave up. 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.639 I said, Well, I think this is what it is. 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:26.319 And then you texted me on a random Saturday saying this is awesome. 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:32.720 And it was as, and of course you sent me a picture, and it was the exact Saturday I was struggling with. 00:08:32.960 --> 00:08:39.360 So I think when I say our idea was for congregants to write their journal with us, I think that's what I'm saying. 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.480 Like it's unique for every single one. 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:52.559 That that Saturday for me was like, uh, for you it was good, and then you had your time with God, something that God told you that's specifically for you. 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:55.919 So I think that's was that was the main purpose. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:57.840 We're writing this together. 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:05.279 Um, even though a couple of the things, uh the again, the devotional part, it is what it is, is just us trying to understand. 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:19.039 Okay, so what is logos uh means, or what the the encounter Jesus had with the Samaritan woman, for example, what does that mean in that context? 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:20.879 That's just devotional. 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:27.600 But of course, the of course the journal, the practical aspects of it, I think it's very unique for everybody. 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:28.960 That's what we try to accomplish. 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:36.960 Yeah, I think the you know, you mentioned my experience with that, which you know, I'm this is the first time hearing that, so that's an awesome story to share. 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.679 But uh I I did want to kind of share my personal experience. 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:56.000 The questions helped me so much, and even the questions that were repetitive, like those still help me so much because I uh I can get lost in a a soup of thought, right? 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:06.320 And and so to be able to jot down something specific based upon a question really helped me formulate my thought process towards the reading that day. 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:17.600 So I I think that's one thing that I may try and find moving forward, like some general questions to ask myself and and do it on my own, right? 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:19.279 Journal journal on my own. 00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:24.320 I do that, but uh I don't necessarily have questions, it's more just like whatever pops into my head. 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.159 But I think I think the specific questions uh do help. 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:35.600 Um one thing you mentioned was you know God speaking something specific to to each individual, right? 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:47.120 Now I've often struggled with that, uh not saying that that's not true, because I, you know, obviously God says different things to different people, right? 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:56.960 But and maybe I've talked about this on the podcast before, but do you think it's more so an interpretation of what God's speaking? 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:07.120 Uh in other words, I'm hearing it a certain way, or do you do you think that God speaks literally speaks differently to each individual because God's the same, right? 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:14.480 Although the same for God is it's endless, it's eternal what he can say and think and do, right? 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:16.799 But what's kind of your take on that? 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.000 Because it can get dangerous. 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:19.039 Well, God told me this. 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:20.399 Well, he actually told me that. 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:21.759 Do you get do you see what I'm saying? 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.639 Yeah, I think it's a combination of both. 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:34.639 But something that it's very important to understand here is I don't know if God spoke to you or it's just your interpretation of something. 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:39.440 The they tender, the rule will be always the Bible. 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:44.000 So your personal experience with God is not above the scriptures. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:45.840 I think that's the most important thing. 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:52.799 So if you're saying God told you something that goes against the scripture, we only have two options. 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:58.240 One, God never spoke to you, or two, your God is not my God, is not the same God here. 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:13.600 So I do believe that, and and then and going to a personal experience, I think when God speaks something with me, it always starts with with always start with a reading experience. 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:14.799 It begins in scripture. 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:15.919 Exactly. 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:16.480 Yeah. 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:21.360 I I it happened before the opposite way. 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:26.240 I heard God saying something, and then I went back to the scripture to kind of support this. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:39.679 But usually with me, I always start with the scripture, and then I just feel like God to use Pastor Keith's uh term, I I feel the download inside of me. 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:54.720 Um sometimes, and I've of course I think this is tricky, sometimes I hear God saying things that it's for me, it's for my personal life, it's for my marriage, it's for my family, it's for my ministry. 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:56.720 Sometimes not. 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:05.600 It's just an idea, it's just something that he wants me to share with someone, or maybe not, but um sometimes I don't know what to do with it. 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.480 There's a lot of uh things involved here. 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.159 But I think it's a it's a combination of both. 00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:19.279 As long as we keep going back to the scriptures, to the scripture, I think we'll be uh we will be okay. 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:19.840 Yeah. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:35.519 Um I talk about this a lot too, but I don't think you can talk about it enough because there I hear it all the time, people struggle with the idea of hearing from God. 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:43.039 In the best way that you know how, how can you explain what it's like to hear from God? 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:59.120 And it doesn't have to be a cookie cutter, just your experience over time, how it's developed and evolved, how maybe you heard before and now you hear, but you know it's the same voice. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:13:59.840 Does that make sense? 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:00.240 Yep. 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:06.639 So I I think I have three different ways of of answering that question. 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.080 I think the first one is uh through scripture. 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:15.679 So when I say through scripture, I don't want to I don't want to give you a simple answer to what you're saying. 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:32.399 What I mean by that is I hear God speaking with me through the scripture when I'm reading something and then out of nowhere a little piece of a of a verse, or maybe one single word in a verse that just I can get out of my mind. 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:38.240 Um I can give you an an example a couple weeks ago. 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:55.519 Yeah, last week I was reading uh Ruth and then on a chapter one or two or the the first or the second chapter, when in one of the verses it says, Coincidentally Ruth got into his land. 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:03.200 And then I'll and then just that single word, coincidentally, I'm still struggling with struggling with that. 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.600 Uh in our friendship, guys, we say marinating. 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:10.159 I'm still marinating what that means. 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:18.000 Um so I feel that God wants to speak with me about that, and it started with the scripture. 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.480 I think that's the first the first way. 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:28.000 Second is uh when I have an impression or a feeling about something. 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.840 It happens with me pretty frequently. 00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:36.159 I don't think a hundred hundred percent of the times is God. 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:45.200 Um but uh when I have an impression, when I feel out of nowhere, I need to read Romans, it's because something will happen there. 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.759 When I feel out of nowhere, I'm driving around and I feel I need to call someone. 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:55.120 Uh I'm just having an impression that God wants me to do that. 00:15:55.279 --> 00:16:01.519 Even though I'm not sure, I tend to to give room, make room to those impressions. 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:02.720 I think that's the second. 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:08.559 And the third, it's when I actually hear his voice in my spirit. 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.360 And I think that's the most complicated one. 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:16.960 Um but I think it falls back to the concept concept of friendship. 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:24.720 So if I don't have your number in my contacts and you call me, it will be a weird number calling me. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:30.639 But on when I pick up and you say, Hey brother, I n I automatically know it's you. 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:32.320 I would say hey brother. 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:34.080 Because I know your voice. 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:44.720 We we we're friends enough for me to to understand the tone of your voice, the the weird words we use in our relationship. 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.039 So I know it's you automatically. 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.840 Um I think with God is the same thing. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:17:04.720 I think as you develop this relationship, you learn um okay, this is God, this is me, and this is uh the devil, if we can put that way. 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:20.400 Um I think what I would say in is of course hearing the voice of God is very important, but develop a relationship is more important than that. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:26.079 Hearing and recognizing his voice is just an overflow of a great relationship. 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.640 Yeah. 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:44.319 And I think I think one of the key things that you said is you you err on the side of caution, to whereas if you feel like in that prompting phase, if you feel like this is what God is leading you to do, obviously if it aligns with the character of God, exactly, you just do it. 00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:53.440 So whether it was God, you know, and we could go into the theology of does everything begin and end with God and to some extent and how that well works. 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:59.200 But regardless, if you believe that it's God, you might as well just step out and do it. 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:06.240 So something as simple as a phone call, like, man, am I just getting this thought randomly, or is this God like, no, just make the phone call, right? 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:06.960 Exactly. 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.880 And and so I I think that that's a a key piece for for some people. 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:20.480 Like, instead of juggling whether or not it's the right or wrong thing to do, if it doesn't, if it's not contrary to the character of God or his nature, then go ahead and do it. 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:20.960 Yep. 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.279 And also just one more thing, yeah. 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:31.119 Talking about that impressions that we feel or feelings that we we feel, I tend not to over-spiritualize anything. 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:39.759 Even though it's a spiritual process happening inside of me, I treat that phone call as a natural, simple phone call. 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:47.519 I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'll never call the person saying, Hey, I feel God, I think I want, I think God wants me to call. 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.519 No, it's more like, hey, what's up? 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:51.440 I was thinking about you, I decided to call. 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.599 Yeah, so I make that whole process very natural, yeah. 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.920 Uh instead of over spiritualizing anything. 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:03.519 And if there's a supernatural element to the conversation that comes out of it, it's almost like a confirmation, right? 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:10.880 Like, oh, in a sense, could it be where someone would say, uh, you have no idea what this phone call means to me? 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.200 I was, you know, I was thinking about the same thing. 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:15.200 Like that's when it's like, okay, God. 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:21.920 And you can start to catalog those away as testimonies and reminders to yourself. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:31.279 Like, no, when you feel hesitant about making that step, you can no, I remember when I did this, this happened, or I remember when I obeyed the first time this happened. 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:32.319 Exactly. 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:51.359 Uh let's talk about kind of getting back to the the scripture aspect of it, the uniqueness of John's gospel, because you mentioned how it's the it's the first one that you tell people a new believer or someone who's not even a believer who's interested in scripture or interested in the things of God. 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.759 That's the one you read, John, right? 00:19:55.119 --> 00:20:00.720 So we have what are called the synoptic gospels, and if you want to go into what those are, feel free. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:05.680 Why is John so unique and why does it seem to stand out? 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.279 It it just it doesn't appear like any of the others, you know. 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:20.079 Uh, and you and I were kind of joking about that when I got to it this year, reading through it, but but what what do you think the divine purpose is there? 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:29.039 Well, even though we of course we can talk about a little bit about the synoptic synoptic gospels. 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.839 Synoptic got it on. 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:48.319 Um but of course every single every single one of them are very are very unique, but like Luke, for example, it's so detail-oriented, and and you're when you read it, sometimes it's more like okay, look, I got it. 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:49.680 Go, go, go, go. 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:58.400 And Mark is the opposite, it's so short, it's so like to the point, and so Jesus was there, this is what he did. 00:20:58.640 --> 00:20:59.279 Next. 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:05.039 Um I think John is unique because he brings a type one. 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.720 I think it's a little bit more romantic than the other ones in the writing. 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:16.400 I think he wrote through the lenses of his relationship with Jesus, so he was known as the loved one. 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:22.480 So I think he he puts that relationship in the middle of his writing. 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:57.599 But what I think it makes it very unique is John trying, uh trying to show everyone that this mysterious subject in theology that God incarnated in in a man that was showing to the man what God is, and then went back to heaven to tell God how it is to be a man, if that makes sense. 00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:59.359 So I think that. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:23:50.480 that it's it's very interesting to see how he's always like so this is Jesus the man doing all those things but at the same time this is Jesus the god doing all those um uh things we have this uh term in theology called uh Kenosis the theology of Kenosis that try to figure out Jesus did what he did because he was a man or because he was a God and then of course uh we can talk all day about this um but we see Jesus doing a couple of things as a man especially when he said well if you believe in me you will be able to do things like that and even more so if he said that and if he did that as a God we have a problem because he said we would be able to do things like that and we're not God also God doesn't die and Jesus died so of course uh a part of his ministry he did as a as a man if we can say that in that way but also part of his ministry we see the God persona of Jesus taking place like when he says all your sins are forgiven as a man I cannot said I cannot say that to you right so in that interaction was Jesus the man or Jesus the God hanging on a cross yelling to teleste was Jesus the man or Jesus the God so that tension between the two of them not trying to bring any clarification is fascinating to me on John's writing. 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.880 Yeah it's not like hey this is the man Jesus talking it's just like this is what happened. 00:23:55.119 --> 00:24:17.440 Exactly and you guys figure out by yourself I think this is the point but I don't see that in any other of the gospels um so I think this is what makes makes the whole thing very unique starting like this hey Jesus was God Jesus was with God and then not anymore. 00:24:17.599 --> 00:25:48.640 Yeah so since like the first verses of the the book he's already talking about it so I'm under the impression he had this conversation with someone on a podcast 2000 years ago when someone asked him so tell me a little bit about Jesus and John was like well Jesus the man Jesus the God exactly yeah even though of course of course you guys are uh listen to us he was a man he was a god he was both um it's not one nor the other yeah but I really like how he presents in a way and again not trying to bring any clarification about it it's just something that was inside of him so that's I think that's why all the signs we see in the in the gospel is so unique to the gospel because he's trying to bring different signs to bring that discussion again what about now yeah let's talk about this one let's talk about this encounter with the Samaritan woman let's talk about this right now is who is who is talking with her is Jesus the man bringing all the revelations about her life things that nobody knew about it just her or is Jesus the God see how and and how how a simple man can just say that well if you knew who you were talking with you will ask me water and I will give water to you that you will never be thirst again. 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:56.000 I can't say that because I'm just a limited man like Jesus was but at the same time see what I'm saying? 00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:32.720 Yeah this tension happening all the time in the gospel loved it I think this is a complicated answer but no it's a it's a complicated question and one thing that has really stretched my faith in recent probably this past year is the answer is both but it's not all inclusive okay so both doesn't mean yes to everything or both doesn't mean anything goes or exemption from boundaries. 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:33.839 Does that make sense? 00:26:34.960 --> 00:27:09.359 But it's both it and that's what makes God God and that's what makes God sacred and holy and unique and not of not of us right um and so and there's a lot of things in scripture too that I think are both for sure but that doesn't make it that's not a theme that's natural that makes this that makes something right and wrong at the same time for us right I can't think of an example right now but I can't say like oh that's I can give you an example. 00:27:09.680 --> 00:28:12.799 Hit me um free will and sovereignty for example so we have a lot of believers that believe that well it's free will free will free will free will it's definitely I'm I'm deciding I know what I'm gonna do I wore this shirt today because I decided and voila and we have polar opposite exactly polar opposite thing saying what are you talking about it's it's it's not about you at all it's God above everything he's in control of everything so you think you wear this shirt because you've chose it you have no idea you think you choose God because you choose God no you have no idea and they don't understand that it's a combination of both together in a way that it's impossible for us to understand that it's the final truth. 00:28:12.880 --> 00:29:44.640 Yeah there is free will of course there is sovereignty of course how does that exist together we now we'll never know never know we'll never know um in Portuguese the word we use for for those types of things is um antinomial so it's when we apparently have two two different two opposite truths truths in the Bible or truths that appear opposite exactly for I can give you one more example throughout the Bible you can you see a lot of times um the writer saying worship God and God alone God is one God is one it's just one God in heaven and then some parts of the Bible we understand that this God is three and then we try to we try to understand okay it's one or it's three is three or one when I worship I worship one or I worship three should I and we try to we try to understand the two truths in a way that we we take the one we like more and we exclude the other we're just trying to make it neat we're trying to make it fit into our our conceptual understanding our cognition basically it doesn't fit. 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.000 It doesn't fit it's putting a square peg in a round hole. 00:29:48.240 --> 00:31:28.720 Exactly but that's God that's God I want to get back to uh just one more thing on on that Trinity I think someone told me that in the past and it brought so much peace to my heart because I used to be this guy 15 years ago trying to and I told you this a hundred of hundreds of times trying to understand okay this is it and the rest is just is just lies and the Trinity is definitely one of them right so is this God I worship one or three and someone told me something one day that I was like yes it brought me peace to my heart and he said taking a risk of be of saying uh saying a heresy right now God is like a Twix that it's chocolate caramel and cookie together three but one so I was like that's it God is my Twix delicious so good the series is called signs and you know we we pointed to we pointed to the miracles as as the signs why did we why do we call it that you know like why why are those terms synonymous signs miracles what's the significance in in that in that title well I understand that miracles are just something supernatural that happened and it's amazing. 00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:40.079 Signs is more like something supernatural that happened with the goal of show showing something else. 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:42.000 You know what I'm saying? 00:31:42.160 --> 00:32:00.400 Yes so and we see that in John a lot of lots of times when Jesus does something that it's it's a miracle also leads people to to believe or not believe to join him or go away from him because they're all signs of of something. 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.400 Do you think that's frustrating for him? 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:52.160 I don't think so no I don't the only reason I don't think so because it's because I don't think popularity was in his agenda he was doing God's will and trying to show the kingdom for 200 or 2000 I think for him it was like I don't care as long as I fulfill whatever God wants me to do I think that's the could Jesus is Jesus' nature so uh important or is his nature could he not do miracles or does his nature compel him that he must? 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:53.599 Does that make sense? 00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:10.880 It's almost like asking the question like could Jesus not have died on the cross or had or God's or could God have chosen not to send an answer or does his nature not allow him he must answer the call to redeem? 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:11.839 Does that make sense? 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:20.880 I think this is just a comp it's so complex and we wouldn't need three hours for this next week. 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:26.400 There's a bunch of factors that we can't ignore when we answer that. 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:44.240 For example all the prophecies of the old testament about Jesus and the majority of then it's the majority of then is talking about something supernatural happening. 00:33:44.720 --> 00:34:34.400 So when you say let me put it this way a lot of times we say God can't overlook sin because of how holy he is there must be an answer for it right and that's why we point to the cross like there had to be an answer for sin there so that's what I that's what I guess I'm asking is we can't overlook sin so did there have to be like God's nature wouldn't allow him to not send an answer basically and and asking that with the same thing like Jesus' nature wouldn't allow him to walk by and not perform the miracle right I well again I I think it's so complex I I think since day one if we can put that way even though this is so limited Jesus was the perfect plan of God. 00:34:34.719 --> 00:36:32.000 We see that in Genesis chapter three Genesis chapter three thousand of years ago we see that and of course we can make this whole thing even more complicated when we say the lamb of God was lain since the foundation of the world the every of everything so this is where is that uh revelations so of course this is this is mind blowing but the answer for everything well God's answer for everything was Jesus since day one I believe I believe that if we read the Bible holistic as we should we understand this pattern this rhythm and this plan of God and pretty much the plan of God is sin equals death blood equals life restoration so in the old testament some someone needed to die in your place right someone needed to die in your place or somebody that's why they used to kill the animals so their blood would cover you um but that was just a temporary solution because the solution was Jesus and then Jesus comes he does everything he needed to do to fulfill all the prophecies of the old testament but the most important thing and this is the biggest signs of all the signs is Jesus on a cross dying for me and for you saying it is finished that's my blood not not to cover sin but to forgive sin. 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:42.400 I think that's a big difference old and new testament to forgive sin for now on and now we can live a life with God because of that. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:37:16.639 So when I think about God and his plan I want to say yes Jesus needed to die on a cross Jesus needed to do exactly what he did but I also believe that being a man he did it because he chose to he could have chosen a completely different path I believe that I'm so grateful he didn't yeah he did exactly what it was necessary yeah for us to have this conversation right now. 00:37:16.800 --> 00:38:56.639 Yeah Lazarus the story of great guys great guy fascinating fascinating story I've read it before uh I've read the account before but for whatever reason this time around I read it multiple times and just struck me struck me in new ways um I'd love to hear your take inclusive of this Sunday which this past Sunday we haven't even you know we're 30 something minutes in we haven't even talked about how amazing this past Sunday was uh being able to be at the crossings church uh which houses both the crossings church and Vita church uh uh so shout out to them oh yeah shout out to the crossings church and their generosity and hospitality in Vita Church go ahead and give Vita some love amazing but yeah let's talk about that but before we wrap up here just what are some takeaways from you from Lazarus and that just that narrative and how how impactful it can be it's so interesting for me to understand that it was a family that Jesus loved and they were his his friends right Lazarus and the two sisters and when Jesus got the news hey Lazarus is it's so fascinating to me that he did the opposite of what everybody's expecting everybody's expecting Jesus to stop everything he's doing but that's not what he did. 00:38:56.800 --> 00:40:16.239 He had a plan he had an agenda he and of course we can debate if he did that because he knew he would bring Lazarus back or he did just because he because he's Jesus but that's the fascinating the most fascinating thing to me and then of course the ro the whole interaction with of Jesus with the with the sisters and how everybody was crying and then we see Jesus crying right there again Joan bringing the man side of Jesus Jesus cried when he saw everybody and everybody suffering because apparently Lazarus was someone that was loved by the community we see people were there grieving and and then something that is very powerful to me I heard that long long time ago but I think it makes sense when Jesus when they rolled the the stone and Jesus said Lazarus came out I think it's interesting to me that Jesus called him by his name otherwise everybody would raise right if Jesus isn't a crazy Patrick mentioned that on Sunday. 00:40:16.480 --> 00:41:45.519 This is crazy and um this is this is awesome and and then of course of course Lazarus came out and when we think about the tradition he was probably wrapped up with a bunch of uh fabric and all and whatever they used and then he had to remove everything to understand the the new perspective important also to understand that two miracles happened there one not only Jesus bringing him back but Jesus healing him because Lazarus died died of something and uh it's not only bringing him back otherwise he would die two minutes later right yeah so he was healed uh and then of course uh they served the Lord together uh uh as a family so the whole thing is very very very interesting to me but the most fascinating thing is a couple years later Lazarus died again um Jesus is the only one who died resurrected and lives forever and one day we will ooh yes I don't know if we will see the dead the dead or not I think we will um but live forever with the with our Savior. 00:41:45.840 --> 00:42:01.760 Imagine being Lazarus being sick and knowing that well I'm inferring here that but knowing most likely that they went out and told Jesus and him thinking okay Jesus' gonna come I'll be better. 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:23.440 His friend yeah like okay yeah we're good we're good and then being let down and then the moment of consciousness again wow yeah I'm back yeah do you know when you're part of those meetings that it's so long and at some point you're just lost and you're like I don't even know what we're talking about right now. 00:42:23.599 --> 00:43:59.840 Imagine Lazarus bro when he walked out thinking What's happening what's happening yeah Jesus is here now yeah how many days I was in there yeah what did I tell me guys why are you why are you crying and wearing weird uh uh clothes yeah so so weird man I think that's one of the I don't know if we will have that or not but hopefully we will I would love to have a Samsung OLED 50 not 50 let's say 85 um um 85 what how you guys call it in English inch inch TV in heaven in a Netflix the heaven Netflix could be just moments in a past for us to see and that's when I would love to put like a 45 minutes version of that story Jesus arriving the sisters crying Lazarus dead I would love to see like a camera on him when Jesus said Lazarus what are you doing there and then the guy just and bro that would be amazing amazing so God this is an idea I know you thought about it but giving God an idea and with that note before we get in too much trouble thanks so much for for coming on appreciate you and all the work you put into this series it was uh very impactful for our church awesome thank you uh stay tuned guys uh we'll probably be back here uh shortly for a new season of after the message 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.840 But until then, we hope to see you either online or in person, Celebration Church Orlando. 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.960 Peace out. 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:10.000 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:20.639 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org.