WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.080 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.800 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.199 Folks, it is so good to be back. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:18.640 It's been a minute. 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:19.359 It's been a minute. 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:20.320 It has been a minute. 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:22.160 A lot has transpired. 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:28.079 But it is great to be back with you on After the Message. 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:28.800 That's right. 00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:35.840 If you are new to this or maybe you stumbled upon this, this is the Celebration Church Orlando podcast. 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.960 And this is a segment we like to call After the Message. 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:44.159 And uh it's just simply a conversation that we continue from the previous Sunday sermon. 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:48.479 And uh we hope that it encourages you to kind of do the same thing. 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:53.200 So uh today uh I'm privileged to be joined by Pastor Keith. 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:58.159 And Pastor Keith, we are are um we're pumped about this series that we're in, right? 00:00:58.399 --> 00:00:58.640 We are. 00:00:58.719 --> 00:00:59.600 I don't but here's the thing. 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:01.039 I don't know, did you introduce yourself, man? 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:01.840 You're a distinguished host. 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:03.039 Yeah, my name's Nate. 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:03.920 There it is. 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:05.680 I just asked the questions. 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.840 Yeah, Nate does a phenomenal job at this. 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:09.760 So I gotta make sure I give credit where it's due. 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:10.719 So I appreciate that. 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:12.480 Um so I'm just playing my part. 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:13.519 Appreciate that. 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.840 Let let's talk a little bit on a personal level. 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:20.400 What what what's some thing I know uh 46 has passed. 00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:32.640 Uh you you are you are now um 46 years old and and you shared Sunday a little bit of the the pains of 46 years old, uh, but you got to do a cool trip. 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:37.599 Yep you know, anything else going on that you you just are excited and want to share with the people? 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:40.640 Man, it's it's um you know, 46. 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:43.760 Um my youngest is 17, Caleb. 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.599 And so like we're we're entering into a place where he's about to go off to college. 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:54.640 He's a senior this year, and so like the excitement of doing some college visits and and really trying to solidify some of that stuff. 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:59.519 So like it's a it's a whole new season that's familiar because we've done it two times already. 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.000 Yeah, but this is the last time we're doing it. 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:12.400 So like it's it's it's it's interesting, it's exciting, a little bit sad because like now like the baby is about to finally like go out the nest, so to speak. 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.360 And so um, so I'm I'm all kinds of emotional. 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:16.560 I'm all over the place nowadays. 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.919 So it's exciting, and I really want to see kind of how this new season works out. 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.159 But then also, like I'm 46. 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:26.000 By the time I'm 47, Nate, there's a good chance I'm gonna be an empty nester. 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.919 Bro, I'm I've as far as I'm concerned, I have literally the next half of my life. 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.800 I plan on living at least until I'm like 95. 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:37.680 So, bro, like everything I live up to this point, that's just the intro to the rest of my life. 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.360 And so I'm like, man, like this is wow. 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:41.840 Don't lie, you are you're happy. 00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:42.960 Don't lie. 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.960 All the all the empty nesters out there are like, I read through this. 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:51.360 Yes, I'm I'm I'm about to be empty nester, but still vibrant. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:51.919 Yes. 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.199 So so I do find some excitement and just the possibilities. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:03:00.800 But here's the thing it's been a long time since I've had like an a true unknown, a new new season. 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:02.960 Because you know, once you get into parenthood, it is what it is. 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:06.800 Yeah, so Megan and I are about to enter into a new season that we have never been to before. 00:03:06.879 --> 00:03:10.159 So that's exciting, but also kind of like, man, like what do we do with this? 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:11.360 Yeah, that's understandable. 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:12.800 Caleb's playing ball, right? 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:13.759 He's playing football. 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:15.360 Okay, how's that going? 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:17.199 Um, yeah. 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.520 It's it's I mean, his his there's um he's doing great. 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:43.599 He's doing really good, and then just the the team camaraderie and the friendship and the brotherhood, yeah, which was important for us because you know, with us moving around, moving to a new city, even though we've been here for a couple of years now, but then you have pandemics, so you lose that momentum of establishing good friends and with him coming in his 10th grade year, that getting cut short because of COVID, missing virtually his entire 11th grade year, and now as a senior. 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:49.120 Um, so seeing the brotherhood that's established with being on a football team, that to me makes it worth it. 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:49.599 Yeah. 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.919 But the actual team winning, um, that's a whole nother conversation altogether. 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:54.560 All right. 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:57.680 That can be a a different a different segment. 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:00.639 Um let's talk about the church a little bit. 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:09.680 I mean, things are things things are going well for us at you know uh here in Orlando, but but also just kind of abroad as well. 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:19.519 You know, we've just uh we've seen Pastor Tim come on, Pastor Tim Timberlake is our our senior pastor moving forward, and and so we had a great celebration for for that. 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:32.399 And so let's kind of talk about you know a a little bit moving forward, not getting into too much detail, but um but just you know what things look like for for Celebration Church and and what what we see vision-wise, you know. 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:34.319 Oh man, you're setting me up, I know. 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:35.199 You're setting me up. 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:46.800 Um man, I I think, you know, kind of like what you mentioned, um if you're if you're newer to our church, our culture, um, you know, we have a founding pastor who was the senior pastor, Pastor Silval and Pastor Carey. 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:52.319 So uh 24 years ago, Jacksonville, that's kind of where it started, and and and so now we have many locations. 00:04:52.480 --> 00:05:04.399 So um, but similar to as I was explaining with Megan and I going into this new season, um, that's how it is for our founding pastors who so they felt called to go into their next season of ministry and what that looks like. 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:09.519 And so um Pastor Tim and his wife Jen are now the senior pastors of celebration. 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:19.920 Um and so that's an amazing transition because with me being a part of our church for 15 years now, um, I I celebrate uh what God has done and I'm excited for what God's about to do. 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:41.839 And so I think my my excitement for the future for celebration in general is I think that uh this this pandemic season, it it opened our eyes to um to uh all of the churches, but I think for us specifically with ensuring, which is a beep, deep passion for mine, making sure that people are um spiritually vibrant beyond the church, that we're coming alongside and equipping people. 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:48.399 And so as I see the the upcoming season for us as we finish this year strong is continuing to do that. 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:52.800 I see that God is sending us an amazing crop of people. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:06:02.319 And and the way that I the way that I view when God is doing something um in our midst, and this is personal, this is in the church world, um, this is in any way that you kind of want to apply it. 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:06.800 But whenever you see God doing something or moving um in your life, you have a couple of options. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:13.439 You can either um you can either slow it down, you can either smother it and kill it, or you can lean into it. 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:24.959 Um and I think we've all had been at different moments where we've seen God's hand in our lives and we went to slow it down, other areas where we're like, God, I don't want that, and you try to shut it down completely, and other times where you can lean into it. 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:29.600 And sometimes we we are doing our best to try to discern what's what and if it's God or not. 00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:35.120 But what I can say for Celebration Orlando is that God is clearly sending, and so what we're gonna do is we're gonna lean into it. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:54.079 And what leaning into it looks like for us is um continuing to to to steward what God sends us, making sure we're doing um an even more amazing job at cultivating community and emphasizing spiritual engagement, um, creating more opportunities for people to join us with our in-person gatherings, with adding on additional services, things along those lines. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:02.319 So for me, like the sky is literally the limit because God has given me a glimpse of things to come, man, and I could not be more excited, but we're gonna lean into it, man. 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:12.160 Yeah, and and it's it's great that you bring up the the equip side of this because uh that kind of segues into into what we're doing through through through this series called Signs. 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:25.279 And um, you know, there's been a lot of a lot of preparation put into making sure that that this is done well and that it's fruitful and and and that people uh actually grow, you know what I mean? 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:26.240 Like that's the whole point. 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.879 You know, we often say that our job here is to reach the lost and equip the found. 00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:43.439 And and so providing a a a little bit more of an immersive uh opportunity to study the word and and to come alongside people and and kind of light that fire. 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:51.279 I think that was sort of the the starting point, like man, let's let's light the fire so that after this series is over, it's not over for them. 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:51.600 Absolutely. 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:52.399 You know what I mean? 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:58.160 Like their their engagement with the word of God actually continues on and and they begin to grow. 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.399 And that's ultimately our church's hope for this. 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:01.040 Absolutely. 00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:06.079 I would say that that's that's that's the goal for me in general. 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:11.680 But this, you know, you have those on-ramp moments, and this series, I believe, is is a great opportunity for us to do this. 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:43.440 The amount of work that that the team has done overall, um inclusive of yourself, us having the kids' version version of the journal, us doing the same content um with youth, um, all the work that's gone into this is is really to not only help the individual um engage God's word, but hopefully for our families to engage it together collectively, because we don't often do um these moments where what we're talking about with students is the same content that we're talking about with kids and the same thing we're talking about on um Sunday um in the regular gathering. 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:59.200 So for us, we're hopeful that that now we don't have to kind of like segregate what God is doing amongst the family, that we all can talk about it together in a in a in a very life-giving way, but then also providing resources and tools um that can help people, that can give them those on-ramps, man. 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:09.600 Like I often say to my kids, and and I'm I'm officially sounding like my parents used to sound like when I was your age, but I I do think um about people who are beginning to engage God's word. 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:18.559 Like when I got saved over 20 years ago, we didn't have journals with people who wrote out different ways you can interpret um Hebrew and Greek and cultural context. 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.840 Like, Nate, I didn't have any Google to look up a verse, man. 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:23.840 I had to like go and actually look it up in the concordance. 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:25.200 I didn't have the Google. 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:27.840 I didn't have the Google, I didn't have the interwebs. 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:29.519 I had to like figure this stuff out on my own. 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:42.159 So I'm I I love that we have been able to curate so much content to give people an on-ramp to hopefully ignite that where they don't have to get discouraged um with the inception that they actually have have the tools to help them to go further. 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.120 Yeah, inclusive of after the message making a comeback. 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:45.759 That's right. 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:47.039 Come on, come on, Nate. 00:09:47.679 --> 00:10:00.799 So uh so we um the name of the series is signs and ever and everything that we kind of did with this w was intentional, you know, and we we were going back and forth about about titles and everything. 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:10.960 And and just briefly too, one thing that I love about what we're doing now is how involved the staff is in actually participating and not just creating, you know what I mean? 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:27.039 Like like there was a lot of work and and effort done with the with the journal and and the graphics and and doing you know the podcast again and all that stuff, but um just actively participating, especially with the journal, um ha has been really cool. 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.679 And now for those who have kids that they can do it with the Wonder Journal with their kids. 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:42.080 So I I know I've seen you uh kind of kind of going through it what through the through the week, what's kind of been your experience as you've actually participated in the journal so far? 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:52.240 Man, it's it's it's a fresh feeling for me and because it's it allows me to be able to receive instead of just present. 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:59.120 Um and and what I mean by that is as I'm going through the journal, the same way that everyone else is, one, I I didn't write it. 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:04.879 So that's a beautiful thing that um that with with Vinny and the team, like they curated it. 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:10.559 So I was able to review it, but I did my best to not ingest it because I wanted to take it in just like everyone else. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:18.720 And so my my journey has been really just um as I'm looking at things, highlighting things, and even looking at um some of the things that are presented. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.000 I'm like, oh man, I forgot that I knew that, or oh man, that's a great way of saying that. 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:33.600 Like, so for me, it's just been amazing to be on this journey um along with our church and seeing the response from our church and varying people um either post or tag us or or mention something that they see in the journal. 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:40.399 So for me to see um all of us, and we're just getting started on this and seeing the way that it is, like it's just fun uh to watch. 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:57.600 It's almost it's weird because it's almost like um it's almost like how I feel um on Christmas, where I know that I was involved with what's happening, but I get a chance to participate the same way that my kids, at least they used to be when they were younger and all excited about stuff like that. 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:04.960 Um, but I used to just get so much joy seeing their joy, and I felt like I was a part of it, like that was a part of it for me, and so that's kind of how I feel with this. 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.600 Yeah. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.960 Let's uh let's talk about, you know, briefly mention the title, but let's kind of talk about that. 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:25.919 And I and I think one thing in from this previous Sunday sermon that that you uh brought up and something that I'd often talked about or thought about but hadn't really talked about before was you know the fact that miracles weren't a new thing, right? 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:46.480 Like you see it, you see it in the Old Testament uh with with prophets performing miraculous uh works of God and stuff, but but but can you kind of go in a little bit to not only the name signs, what that points to, but but also uh why it why it varies from from other work, miraculous works that have been done a little bit? 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:52.159 Yeah, so it's as far as like um as you said, like miracles weren't anything new. 00:12:52.399 --> 00:13:00.000 So typically what would happen whenever there was a miracle, specifically coming out of like um coming out of the the old testament era. 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:02.960 So so here's the context of of what's happening. 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:13.759 Um historically, what would happen in in the Old Testament in the Old Covenant is that you would have prophets or or people that God has designated that could perform a sign or a miracle. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:19.120 So then you have what we call the intertestamental period, which is a 400 years of prophetic silence. 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:28.320 That's the moments when when God kind of like backed up and allowed world history to kind of unfold, and so he wasn't really speaking through a specific prophet anymore. 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.519 So there weren't any movements from any prophets or anything. 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:38.000 So this is why when John the Baptist shows up on the scene, he's like the first prophet they have seen in over 400 years. 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.519 So everybody's like, yo, like, are are you are you Elijah? 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:42.480 Like who who are you? 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:47.519 Like, why why like you're out here doing some different stuff, and we know that prophets can be a little bit weird sometimes. 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:55.919 So everyone was looking for a sign because they knew that if it was a sign in this new era that was coming in, that that would be a sign of the Messiah. 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:06.480 So that's why John's writing is making such a distinction with what's happening with Jesus, not because it's like um these are miracles, but it's miracles coming out of 400 years of silence. 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:29.519 There was no rollover, it was generations have died off, and their only concept of miracles were things that they read in ancient ancient books, and now all of a sudden this new guy shows up and he's doing some things, but things that are directly connected to God the Creator, such as like changing the physical composition from something from water to wine, like that's a creative miracle. 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:30.720 That's not like you know what I mean? 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:33.759 Like that's that was that was different than anything they'd ever seen. 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:38.960 So those are the type of signs that made Jesus' distinction different than what other people have done. 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.559 Like Jesus has done miracles that okay, we've never seen that. 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:43.840 We've seen miracles before, right? 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:47.360 We've never seen anybody that could tell the wind and the waves to stop. 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.039 We we we haven't seen that. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:53.279 Like even when Moses was able to part the Red Sea, we knew that that was God, he was just being obedient. 00:14:53.600 --> 00:15:03.919 But we seen Jesus come up and it says that he literally silenced the waves like a like a parent would do a child, like shh, like that's like that's divine authority. 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:06.799 So that was what makes Jesus' signs a little bit different than everybody else's. 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:07.360 Yeah. 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:21.679 And I think it's important because you know, even for myself, admittedly, when first uh you know, a while ago as a young believer, uh distinguishing the Johns, right? 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:29.759 So so we so the John's gospel is written by a disciple, but it also involves John the Baptist, correct? 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:40.000 So I think for you know for uh those that may not identify as necessarily a Christian or maybe they're a new believer, it's it's good to kind of distinguish who those guys are, right? 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:40.879 Yeah, for sure. 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:41.759 It it helps. 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.440 So of course you have John the Baptist who's Jesus' cousin. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:55.360 Um and then you have the Apostle John, which is actually not to make this any more confusion, um, he was one of the followers of John the Baptist, and then he switched to start following Jesus. 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.919 So um, not that it makes it any more murky. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:03.519 So you had John, who was Jesus' cousin, who had John the Apostle, who ended up following Jesus when Jesus came on the scene. 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:05.679 So good to know. 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:07.840 That's what we do here on African message. 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:24.399 Um so the the interesting thing that you pointed out towards the beginning uh of the message, um, which was titled Filled to the Brim, uh the one of the first things that you pointed out that was is unique to John's gospel is right off the bat he declares that Jesus is God. 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:41.200 So I I know in conversations that I've had with people in the past who may not necessarily be familiar, uh, and even Christians, you know, it's it's a difficult thing to try and understand, like, okay, so Jesus is the Son of God, but he's also God. 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:42.159 You know what I mean? 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:58.799 So whenever that question arises, or whenever people ask you about it or or talk to you, what do you typically tell them or what do you how do you steer that conversation to to be able to maybe not explain it, but at least give us a little bit of insight into what that is. 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:01.039 Man, that's uh I didn't know we're going that deep. 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.039 Well I thought we're just gonna come on here and have some fun. 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:04.880 We're eighteen something minutes in. 00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:06.400 Like it's it we might as well. 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:07.119 It's been too long. 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:08.319 So For sure, man. 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:19.920 Um Honestly, man, that's that's a part of that's a massive part of of my testimony is when I is when I got saved and I had friends who weren't Christians and they said you believe in three gods. 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:21.039 I had no clue. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:28.079 I was I was raised as a Christian, but when I really grabbed a hold of my faith, I had no idea of this concept of Trinity and all that stuff. 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:33.839 So what really sparked my hunger for studying the Word of God was studying God in and of Himself. 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:45.839 Because I needed to understand, wait a minute, so there's God the Father, there's God the Son, there's the Holy Spirit, and and somehow they're one and no mathematical equation is three-one. 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.960 So for me that became the the the primary pursuit of me understanding godliness. 00:17:51.039 --> 00:18:09.440 And so as I began to really look at scriptures and as I've had people um explain it to me, so when it says in the beginning was the was the word, the logos, the thought, the intent, I I truly believe that the enormity and the complexity of God, it transcends our understanding. 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:17.119 So the only way that finite beings can understand an eternal being is by putting it in language that we can understand. 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:23.359 But by putting it in language we can't understand, we reduce our understanding of the infinite being that we're trying to describe. 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:29.599 So by no means do I think our English language is capable of truly defining God. 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:36.960 But I think in order for us to grab a hold of his enormity, God has given us this concept of my thoughts. 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.599 If you can take my thought, my heart, that's that's an expression of me. 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:42.559 That's Jesus. 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.319 Jesus is my thoughts and my words made flesh in a way that you can actually see that I'm accessible. 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:54.720 But my creative authority that transcends that, that's the that's the fathering part of me, but then there's the spirited part of me. 00:18:54.799 --> 00:19:02.880 So what I've heard people say before, um, is if you and this is this is a really clunky metaphor, but at the time it made sense. 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:13.519 It's almost like if you if you look at the different you look at the different responsibilities, you look at the different roles that that even I would say you take um myself. 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:22.559 I am a I am a husband, I am a father, I am a pastor, I have these different things and these different hats and different functions that I function in. 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:28.799 And sometimes as I'm speaking, I'm speaking as a husband, I'm speaking as a husband, I'm I'm speaking as a father, I'm speaking as a pastor. 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:33.279 And depending on the audience or the context, that's which version of me you're getting. 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:40.799 Well, I think that godliness is is so profound and complex that it's impossible for us to really make sense of it all. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:48.000 So there's God has given us pieces of him to understand his attributes in a way that's palatable for human beings because we we just can't. 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:54.079 That's my best um muddy example at trying to explain it to people, and it's hard for us to wrap our minds around it. 00:19:54.240 --> 00:20:06.079 But um, the Bible Project has a really cool video on trying to explain this, and ultimately it keeps they of course they do like this dimensional thing where you can look at it from one dimension, but then you look at it from another angle and you see another dimension of it. 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:07.599 That's kind of how godliness is. 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:14.799 So when I look at Jesus, Jesus is the invisible God presented to us in a way that we can actually understand him. 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:16.559 That's pretty good. 00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:17.839 That's pretty good. 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:30.640 I uh I think um Yeah, I I think it's it's one of those things where you know I've I've kind of thought about well, maybe he's not supposed to be figured out, you know what I mean? 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:36.079 Maybe he's maybe or maybe the figuring out process i is not an overnight thing. 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:36.799 Oh yes. 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:51.920 It's a it's a process uh uh of more so that a journey than than it really is, like a an equation, like you were talking about. 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.119 Agreed, agreed. 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.160 I I think it's Paul says the greatest the mystery of godliness. 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.880 And and and it's not like he had it all figured out. 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.720 He's like, let me God has been seen of angels, preached unto man. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:07.440 Like you're you're trying your best to wrap your mind around it, and Paul's even saying, it's a great mystery. 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:25.680 Yeah, God's not meant to be mysterious in a sense that his ways are not clear to us, but as far as us really wrapping our minds around this spiritual being that somehow manifests himself in the flesh, that somehow can dwell in me and you and occupy all space at the same time, but yet still be as personal as Jesus to us, but yet still on the throne. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:34.079 So I look I look at these like scriptures that I think are so profound because it says that while Jesus was on the cross, he was reconciling the world to himself. 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.000 Just think about that for a moment. 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.079 He's literally accepting his own sacrifice. 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.519 Like so those are moments where you're just like, okay, yeah, I I can this is beyond me. 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:52.799 And why why would you you know, even from my logical brain here, uh, but why would you want to worship something that you completely understood in the first place? 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:53.279 Exactly. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:22:02.160 Or why would you want to submit that the the being that you worshipped and the being That you followed was just like you. 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:12.640 You know, it's I I'm back in school now for whatever reason, and I'm hyped up on way too much coffee because I I wrote a paper until you know way past midnight. 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:38.799 Anyways, it's been good and and it's been fruitful, but one of the things that that really stuck out to me in my Old Testament class was how ridiculous the um the practice of of idols was because you think about you're literally creating man is creating something with his own hands, and then it's standing there and then he's worshiping it as if it has authority over him. 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.400 I think in our modern context, we tend to do the same things, right? 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:54.480 Um we take our technology or we take our our our innovation and and we devote all of our time and energy and money into it, and it's another form of worship, but it's something that we've created with our own hands. 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:55.119 Come on, nigga. 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:55.839 Does that make sense? 00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:56.400 Yes. 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.920 So so yeah, anyways, wherever we are with that. 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:10.720 Let's talk about the miracle that we spoke about on Sunday, because to me, um it it's a little to me, it's always been an odd scripture. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.920 It's always been intriguing to me, I guess would be the best way to put it, that the story of this. 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:22.400 So first, I I want to hear your perspective on the dynamic between Jesus and his mother, right? 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:37.119 Because it's interesting that that Mary obviously is his earthly mother, but Jesus is God, but Mary's asking him to do something, but you even alluded to it that you know Jesus is 30 years old at this point. 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:45.599 You probably would have hoped that your situation would be a little bit different, and even pointed to the fact that some scholars believe that Joseph, his earthly father, is actually gone at this point. 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:50.160 So let's talk about that dynamic of why now. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:57.920 Why why is Jesus performing a miracle and why is it seems something that's not necessarily earth-shattering? 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:58.960 It's a little mundane. 00:23:59.039 --> 00:23:59.680 Does that make sense? 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:00.319 Yeah. 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:07.279 Man, I think that's one of the things that that confounds us, but I believe what there's nothing that happens by accident. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:22.400 Um, and and the motivation of of Mary, I I've read so many different things on she was involved in the wedding planning, she she had personal relationships with the individuals there, she understood um the cultural shame that could come alongside of it. 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.160 And so I I think that those are things that could hold true. 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:35.680 And and if we go down that line of thought, I think it just is meant to show that that Jesus' first miracle, it wasn't like this, like resurrecting the dead. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:40.960 It wasn't, it's it's I think it was meant to show show us that that Jesus cares about the little things. 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:50.960 I think it's meant to say that that those things matter to him just as much as when he sees the widow's son coming out of Nain and he says, Let me let me let me fix this situation. 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:53.359 Like that's obviously got a great deal of weight to it. 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:59.839 But when you understand the cultural context of what this could have meant for that precious couple, he cares about that as well. 00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:07.519 He cares about the the shame, the ridicule, and how that could have possibly messed up their businesses, all the things that go along with it. 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.839 So it just shows that that Jesus cares about that. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:24.720 And then I also believe just uh the the idea of the involvement, what I'm what I'm what I'm really looking at, and I'm probably giving away portions of my thought process with the rest of this message series, is um our involvement in the miracles. 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:34.400 You know, a lot of times um we we we we have our prayer requests, we have the thing that we know we need God to move in, and it's like, okay, I'm gonna pray about it and I'm gonna take my hands off. 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:41.680 But what I think this miracle was meant to be the perfect illustration of you need to participate in the thing that you want to see me change. 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:50.000 So I'm willing to do it, but let's let's repurpose some things and hey, I need you to fill it up to the brim with water, and then watch me work after you do your part. 00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:54.000 So I think sometimes we're waiting for a move of God and God's waiting for a move for us. 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:54.559 Yeah. 00:25:54.799 --> 00:26:02.480 And and that's even evident in some other healings that you see because uh Jesus says, Well, what do you want? 00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:04.400 Basically, he say, Well, what do you need? 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:09.519 And and depending on the response is the way that he he acts in that moment. 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:18.640 So what um why does Jesus say in in that moment that that it's not his time? 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:22.799 Do you do you have any understanding of of why that would be? 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:26.000 He says it's not his time, and then he ends up acting anyways. 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.519 So so what does that what significance does that comment hold? 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:42.799 So those are those are moments where um when I when I look at Jesus, I see, you know, uh you you have like Matthew's primary perspective of Jesus as being, okay, the the prophesied Messiah. 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.119 You have you have Luke and Mark, the servant, as well as him being um a man. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.440 So you see these different emotions from Jesus. 00:26:49.519 --> 00:27:00.240 And so I think what we're seeing is really this interaction between a son and his mother, this divine being who um who simultaneously is submitted. 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.880 What the Bible says after Jesus went to the temple when he was around 12 years old, and after Mary came back, I said, Jesus, why'd you do this to us? 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.599 Did you know that we were not stressed and freaking out about where you were? 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.240 He's like, Didn't you know I needed to be about my father's business? 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.240 But after that it says, and then he went and submitted himself to his father. 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.680 And from that point forward, the belief is that he was just completely submitted to his parents. 00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:31.519 And so what I think we see, again, with Jesus and his profound brilliance, is still demonstrating to us that even though he has authority, that he's choosing to still be submitted. 00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:35.680 So when his mom is like, hey man, like we probably need to do something about this. 00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:38.799 This is a pretty chaotic situation that I think you can get involved in. 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.279 Like, maybe Jesus had something else planned. 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:44.000 And I go, I know that gets into a whole nother level of conversation. 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:44.720 Let's go. 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:49.359 Um, but maybe, maybe Jesus was like, man, like, you know, that's that's not that's not what I want. 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:51.119 Because here's why I I say that. 00:27:51.279 --> 00:28:00.480 Because Jesus understood his his calling, he understood his purpose, he understood that he was coming to bring redemption, and he knew that it was going to come at the cost of his life. 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:02.960 He was clear about that with his disciples. 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:04.880 He was clear about that in his understanding. 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:09.599 It was clear from the Old Testament, and because he is the word, he knew that he had to suffer. 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.640 He even says, Didn't you know that the Son of Man had to suffer? 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:20.480 So he understood all that, but it still didn't stop him from being in the Garden of Gethsemane saying, Yeah, if there's another way to do this, yeah. 00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:33.839 So you have to then ask yourself, if he is the word, the thought process of God made flesh, he understands the end from the beginning, and yet he's still presently in this moment saying, Man, if there's another way to do this, I would love to do it. 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:42.640 I think that we're seeing um the humanity of Jesus having moments where it takes the center stage, and then you have the divinity of Jesus when it has moments where it takes center stage. 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.279 And sometimes it's a dance where we then study it to try to figure out who's talking right here. 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:56.720 So when I think when we look at that passage, we have Jesus, the man who's who's there, like, man, like here's what I know the moment this starts, there ain't no looking back. 00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.599 This is this is my last moment to be normal. 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:02.640 But let's but I'm submitted. 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:02.880 Yeah. 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:11.039 So I believe that that's the thing that I love about Jesus that reminds me, um, Nate, is that um humility is power under restraint. 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.119 Um that's the definition of it. 00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:21.759 And so you have this this man, this this this figure who has ultimate power, but he chooses to humble himself to his mother. 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:31.359 And so to me, that's part of the the encouraging thing with Jesus is that no matter what little authority we have on earth, humility is being able to humble yourself. 00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:32.559 That's good. 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:45.839 You also touched on the the the stone pots that that the miracle actually took place in and you referred to them as um as pots that were used for hand washing, is that correct? 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:46.400 Yep. 00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:57.519 Do you see anything else in that other than the fact that they were just pots for hand washing, or why why why mention that, I guess, in in the message other than the fact that it's the fact of what they were? 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:06.240 Because um at the time, you know, you have um you have this very, you know, we would call it in our current context, I suppose, like legalistic. 00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:14.400 But they had a lot of ritual purification things, which is a lot of the stuff that Jesus bumped into when Jesus came in, they're like, look, he didn't even wash his hands first. 00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:20.240 And he's like, Man, like you're so consumed with what's happening on the outside, but actually what corrupts somebody is what's on the inside. 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.960 So all of these things were meant to be teachable lessons. 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:31.279 But the for the sake of understanding that these were stone pots that already had a purpose, and their purpose was ritual purification. 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.519 That when you come in, you wash your hands. 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:34.480 This is pre-COVID. 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:36.079 You should be doing it anyway. 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.400 Um when you come in, you wash your hands. 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:47.119 But I believe that the deeper meaning that God is showing us is that even if something was created for something, he has the ability to repurpose it. 00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:55.920 So I think what that speaks to for all of us, because when it talks about the um these stone pots, when you really break down language, it speaks about them just being vessels. 00:30:56.160 --> 00:31:01.839 So they were vessels that were created that were used for one purpose, but he repurposed them. 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:06.240 And so the Bible talks about how we are vessels of the Holy Spirit, that we are called to be that. 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:15.279 And so for some of us, we may have used our vessels for other things at one point, but the moment that we put it into the hands of Jesus, he has the ability to repurpose it to do something that's going to bring glory. 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:15.759 Yeah. 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:26.559 For the average, and I say average with air quotes, but for for the the Christian who's just reading their Bible and and something like that doesn't jump out to them, right? 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.799 A detail like that doesn't necessarily they just you just kind of read over it, right? 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:37.839 I mean, there's there's so many things in scripture, so many details that you might just glance over and not think that they're important. 00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:49.119 Um I know even for me I battle this idea of am I reading too much into this or does this have some sort of spiritual significance? 00:31:49.359 --> 00:32:03.599 What's what's kind of your stance on that, the way that you approach scripture and and how why you think certain things are in there, and how do you how do you I guess avoid over complicating something but oversimplifying it? 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:04.480 Does that make sense? 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:05.839 Makes perfect sense. 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:20.160 Um you know I've I've I think to be to answer your question directly, God has given me um the guess best way to put it would be like by nature I am a an investigator. 00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:25.039 By nature, he's wired me to be a person that pays attention to details, just in general. 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:32.880 Um, so my approach to scripture has always been I just bring the way that God has wired me into the way that I read the Bible. 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:38.960 So if I see something, I'm like, okay, the Bible is providing a lot of information in detail for a reason. 00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:46.160 Now you're right, everything doesn't need to become this big theological exercise of let me give you all this background stuff. 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:50.079 However, um certain details, they just kind of like jump off the page. 00:32:50.160 --> 00:33:03.119 And and so for me, my position is um if the Bible saw fit to provide a specific detail, it may not always have like a deep, profound theological meaning, but it can often speak to effort. 00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:04.640 So let's let's back up for a moment. 00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:09.119 When we talk about um Joseph and he had the coat of many colors, yeah. 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:11.279 Um, so okay, great. 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:12.559 He had a coat of many colors. 00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:12.880 Awesome. 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:14.400 I got a coat with a lot of colors in it. 00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:26.799 Um, but when you understand that this was hand-threaded and what it took, like they would have like we have modern technology, but they would literally have to dye every single thread and then they would stitch it together. 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:28.160 So that's a lot of effort. 00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:31.440 So now you understand why his brothers were hating a little bit. 00:33:31.599 --> 00:33:35.839 Because this wasn't something that was like, oh, you just went down to the local store and picked up one of these. 00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:45.519 This was something that was painstakingly created, so that detail then gives you an a little bit of intuition into this is why they were so jealous. 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:55.839 Their dad went through an extensive effort to show that this is my favorite son because I've given you like this priceless heirloom, and now I understand the frustration that they had. 00:33:56.000 --> 00:34:05.519 So those are the moments where if it says it, I like to at least get a little bit of cultural background to understand, okay, they're talking about these six stone pots that were used for ceremonial washing. 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:09.039 Well, at least let me understand what ceremonial washing is first and foremost. 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.000 Um, and then also let me understand how these pots were made. 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:23.199 And those little things, they don't need to necessarily be another 10 minutes added to the message, but it's a context that helps you to understand that these were basically glorified sinks that Jesus then repurposed. 00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:24.000 Yeah. 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:32.559 What and you talk about this in in your um in your lesson when we do uh how to study the Bible, right? 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:48.239 You like you talk about some of the tools, but maybe for someone who hasn't participated in that or seen that, is there danger in Googling stuff like this and and trying to figure out extra biblical resource and and context? 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:52.159 Like w what do people need to be aware of when they're when they're researching? 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:54.239 Um I would say yes and no. 00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:54.639 Okay. 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:57.440 So um, do I use Google? 00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:58.400 Absolutely. 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:04.559 Now, I have a very, very robust um Bible software. 00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:09.119 Um, but there are times if I'm just trying to find one little simple thing, I'm like, let me Google that real quick. 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:14.480 I think what happens is we just have to be careful that we don't just jump at the first results that we see. 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:15.039 Gotcha. 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:23.440 So for me, um, even and this is pretty much what's anything, this is almost like even if I Google, like Meg and I are in the process of of considering buying like a new mattress. 00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.599 Oh, complete overshare, but hey, um I I so what I you know what I Googled last night? 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.880 Um, top 10 mattresses for a platform bed. 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:31.199 Okay. 00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:35.679 So when that pops up, I'm not looking at the top 10 of the first list and like, okay, that's the top one. 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:36.000 Right. 00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:41.519 I looked at the next 10 and seeing which ones were repeated on the top 10 list of about 20 different websites. 00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:41.760 Yeah. 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.880 And then I'll do my own separate research based off of that. 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:49.519 So for me, it's it's it's the same concept of when we're looking at things in the Bible. 00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:51.760 It's it's making sure that you consider the source. 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.599 That's a really, really big thing when it comes to virtually anything. 00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:59.360 Like if I'm gonna take advice from someone, consider the source. 00:35:59.440 --> 00:35:59.519 Yeah. 00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:03.039 If you tell me, like, hey man, this great restaurant is great, let me consider the source. 00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.679 I know you know good food, I know your wife knows good food. 00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:07.039 Yeah, I consider the source. 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:10.400 So for me, it's always making sure that I understand the source. 00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:17.519 So Googling things is not as much the issue, it's just making sure that you're looking at a place that you trust and that had that is respected. 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:24.320 And then even when looking at the results, making sure you look at multiple other sites to make sure that it that it's in a line, that you're seeing some consistency there. 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:32.320 So um, but very rarely, what I'll say is very rarely do I Google something out of thin air. 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.880 In other words, what I'm saying is I may be Googling something for the sake of remembering a reference. 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:40.480 I may be Googling something to, oh, I I can't remember where that one thing is. 00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.920 Very rarely will I Google something that I just completely don't know. 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:50.639 Because for me, if I'm going to say it, I need to know that I've actually researched it and I feel good about it before I would ever mention it on platform. 00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.239 Yeah, absolutely. 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:59.199 Um you we we talked a little bit on Sunday about um deficit, right? 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:10.880 And and and how this message was specifically crafted towards ways that we can realize the filling of the Holy Spirit, right? 00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:19.599 And and and using the analogy of uh of the the stone pots being filled to the brim with water so Jesus could could do the miracle. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:31.840 When you're in moments of of maybe spiritual deficit, um what are the what are the first things that you do, or how do you deal with that, or how do you talk to God about that? 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:34.239 Or do you not experience that? 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:35.440 Oh absolutely. 00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.679 Um in the sense of yes, I do. 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:38.079 Yeah. 00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.920 Um so I'm a really big um I'm a really big fruit of the spirit guy. 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:51.519 Um and and that's not meant to like what what I mean by that is that you know, fruit, you shall they shall know you by your fruit. 00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:54.159 That's evidence that you're a follower of mine. 00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.360