WEBVTT 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.080 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.800 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at CelebrationORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:17.679 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to After the Message. 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:18.960 I'm your host. 00:00:19.120 --> 00:00:21.839 We never start that way, but that's alright. 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:27.679 I'm your host, Nate Capshaw, here at Celebration Church in Orlando. 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:28.960 Welcome to After the Message. 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:36.000 If this is your first time joining us, you have stumbled upon the Celebration Church podcast. 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:42.479 Today I'm joined by none other than my beautiful wife, Jennifer Capshaw. 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:43.359 Jen, how are you doing? 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:45.679 I'm trying not to laugh laugh in the mic. 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:46.880 Uh I'm doing great. 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:47.840 How are you? 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:49.039 Cold. 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:50.640 Yeah, it is really cold out. 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.759 For those that don't know, our church offices do not have heat. 00:00:54.079 --> 00:01:00.399 So it is not as bad as being outside, but definitely it's worse than being outside. 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:00.719 Yeah. 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:04.560 So there's a little space heater in the room right now trying to keep us, and he's little. 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:06.000 Little space heater. 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:07.280 I call him R2D2. 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:07.840 Yeah. 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:09.519 He's small but powerful. 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:11.519 Small but powerful. 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:14.640 Just like the mustard seed, the kingdom of heaven. 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:15.280 Yes. 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:16.879 So many things. 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:18.239 Love it. 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:19.840 Alright. 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:29.439 By the way, Jen is the one who designed our set, our stage design for our new series. 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:30.319 Oh, yes. 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:32.000 I don't know what you're talking about. 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:32.799 Yeah. 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:38.959 Um, I also had some help though from uh Julie Costa, Vinny's wife. 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.879 Vinny um is he does worship here at celebration. 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:44.879 Um, and she also helped me out too a lot. 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:46.480 Gotta give her credit because she helped me. 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:46.959 Yeah. 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:58.719 So if you were there this past Sunday or if you watched online or you're going to watch online, Jen is the one who made it look like a winter wonderland. 00:01:59.040 --> 00:01:59.439 Tried to. 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:00.640 It's kind of hard in Florida. 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:01.280 Liz. 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:01.760 Yeah. 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.920 Had to use the table saw for the first time in my life, and that was so scary. 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:07.760 Well, you did a great job. 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.240 It began to look a lot like Christmas. 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:10.719 Yay. 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.919 So we are in our new series, Emmanuel Hyphen, God with us. 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:16.639 Ooh. 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:17.680 So exciting. 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:22.560 The term Emmanuel means God with us, and obviously referring to Jesus. 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:28.639 And my first question for you is how do you spell Emmanuel with an I or with an E? 00:02:29.120 --> 00:02:31.599 Um, I spell it with an I. 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:33.520 Why are there two different spellings? 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:34.159 Do you know? 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:35.360 Wait, yeah. 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:36.000 Why? 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:45.120 Um I is the Hebrew version, the Hebrew spelling, and E Emmanuel is like the Romanized version of Emmanuel. 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.560 Um so kind of made it, I don't know, Romanized, however you want to take that. 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:51.039 Yeah. 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:51.919 Fun fact. 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:54.000 Yeah, I guess it's yeah, it's a fun fact. 00:02:54.240 --> 00:03:15.599 So if you're new to After the Message, what we do is we have a conversation about the previous Sunday's sermon, and we just like to continue the conversation and see you if we can uncover any new thoughts or ideas, or just talk about it because church is uh more than just a Sunday. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:18.319 So Emmanuel, God with us. 00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:26.639 Um before we get into the sermon, Pastor Mike shared a couple things that I thought would be good to touch on. 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.759 One being the Bible Project. 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.520 He he did a plug for the for Bible Project. 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:41.919 If you are not familiar with Bible Project, you should check out the Bible Project at Bibleproject.com.org. 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:45.120 I think I think if you Google I'll have to Google it really quick. 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.599 I think if you Google Bible Project, you'll find it. 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:58.080 But anyways, like Pastor Mike mentioned, they do a great job at um at sharing. 00:03:58.639 --> 00:03:59.360 What do they do? 00:03:59.439 --> 00:03:59.759 A great job. 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:06.639 They do a really good job of kind of unpacking and explaining things that are kind of really hard to understand. 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:10.800 So even one of the things was like called the Holy Spirit, um, which gets kind of confusing. 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:13.599 And yes, there are some things that we can't fully understand. 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:20.720 The Bible literally says that, but they do a really good job of trying to explain things um to the best of their abilities that are difficult. 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:24.480 But they also have stuff like I'm on the website right now, like Genesis. 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:30.480 Um, so they talk about books of the Bible, they talk about um people in the Bible like Paul. 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:44.720 Um, there's so many things, and I mean, for me, it's really cool because they they do a really great job of explaining things, but they also have really amazing designs and illustrations to the videos. 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:46.240 It's incredible. 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:53.600 So, um, for those that don't know, I have a degree in a bachelor's of fine arts specializing in graphic design. 00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:54.800 So I love art. 00:04:54.879 --> 00:05:04.800 So anytime I see something like this, like the Bible project, I know how much work, so much work goes into this one video that maybe is like five minutes. 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:10.240 On top of recording it, come obviously researching the content. 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:16.800 The hosts research the content, they do a lot of research before recording that and creating the art behind the videos. 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:17.600 It's incredible. 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:19.199 It's you should definitely check it out. 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:20.399 Yes, worth your while. 00:05:20.560 --> 00:05:21.439 Yes, amazing. 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:26.399 And like Pastor Mike mentioned, his favorite books are picture picture books. 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.319 So oh man, Mike. 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:32.000 So it's full of pictures. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:32.959 It makes me laugh. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:48.240 But on their page, they the reason I bring that up is because he was imploring you to uh imploring you to think about what what the Bible is, like how do you sum up God's word? 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:49.680 Like what would you say? 00:05:49.920 --> 00:06:04.240 So let me ask you before I read the Bible project's stance on it, because I think they they word it very well, but but if someone were to ask you, like, tell me what the Bible is in three sentences or less. 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:06.000 Like, what do you think it is? 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.720 It's hard because the Bible is so many things. 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:12.240 Sorry, I'm not speaking in the mic. 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:13.360 So many things. 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:23.519 Um for me, it's a book of hope, a book of love, and a book of guidance. 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:25.120 Hope, love, and guidance. 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:25.519 Yeah. 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:26.399 That's good. 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:28.000 What do they say? 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:35.360 From page one to the final word, we believe the Bible is a unified story that leads to Jesus. 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:40.480 The diverse collection of ancient books overflows with wisdom for our modern world. 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:48.879 As we let the biblical story speak for itself, we believe the message of Jesus will transform individuals and entire communities. 00:06:49.839 --> 00:07:02.720 They obviously go into a lot more detail, but that's kind of the paragraph that I like, and um the one that really makes the most sense as to what it is. 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:16.720 And Pastor Mike's definition was uh about the Bible being God with us, God does God's desire to be with us, God's family. 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.720 Um you look like you have something to say on that. 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:21.439 No, I don't. 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:22.879 I'm just looking at my notes. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:27.360 Which is how we have the series Emmanuel, God with us. 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.639 So to sum up the Bible, God is with us. 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:33.680 That's what I wrote down in my notes, is what Pastor Mike was saying. 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.519 So actually, I skipped something. 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:42.639 Something I wanted to touch on that I think you will have great insight on. 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:53.279 I don't remember why he brought this up, but he brought this up saying that usually in our churches there are more women in the room. 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:54.800 Do you remember him saying that? 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:55.680 Yes. 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:03.920 And he was trying to encourage guys, like, you know, nothing is demasculating about God's word. 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:14.319 Why do we, in your opinion, why do we see more, which ladies, you know, lead, you know what I mean? 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:21.360 Like, but we need we need men to know that having faith in God is not demasculating. 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:28.160 I think that's a hard question because I am a lady, um, but which is why I asked. 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:28.879 Yes. 00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:37.200 So the only thing that I know from my own experience, and the again, this is my experience, so I don't know if this is something that other people think about. 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.440 Um, you should ask some other men also, Nate, um, what they think. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.240 But for me, I I grew up in church my whole life. 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:52.159 Um, I grew up Methodist um and went to a Methodist church close to my parents' house. 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:53.360 They live by Disney. 00:08:53.600 --> 00:09:06.879 Uh, grew up over there, and one of the things that I felt about the Bible or even talking with God is exposing my weaknesses, which is uncomfortable for me. 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:08.639 I don't know why it was so uncomfortable for me. 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:09.519 It's a lot better now. 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.879 Now I have no problem. 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:14.799 I feel like I have no problem exposing my weaknesses and being honest with God. 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:25.600 Um, I I love praying and yeah, talking with him about things I'm struggling with or my weaknesses, but I'm that could be something because I think in society vulnerability. 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:26.799 Vulnerability, yes. 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:32.080 I think in society this is a little bit maybe what is the word? 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:38.240 Cliche or men are taught to be strong and not be vulnerable and not be weak. 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.639 Stereotypical, stereotypical, yes. 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:46.080 And I think it's great for men to be vulnerable and everyone's weak. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.519 We're not perfect, nobody is completely strong all the time. 00:09:49.840 --> 00:10:08.320 So um I think society has taught that narrative and maybe coming into a church service where we're talking about maybe our I don't think we talk about our emotions, but we do talk about our struggles and being honest and open. 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:18.480 I think that can be uncomfortable for maybe men, but also was it was uncomfortable for me too, because I'm like, ooh, I don't know, like just dealing with stuff that's painful. 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:23.440 So that could be something, but I would ask a few guys too to see what they say. 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:28.799 Yeah, but I think the catch 22 is will they really tell me, you know? 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:44.480 Yeah, because the the point that you're trying to make is it's difficult for for typically the male to be vulnerable and open up and yeah, but there are we do our church, we do have men that go to our church. 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:52.960 So there's there are guys that go to our church and guy guys that really men that really you know say, Hey, we're going to church this Sunday. 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:55.440 Like I know some of those families that are like that. 00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:01.840 And I know some families that the the mom is like or the the wife is like, we're going to church today, you know, and it's more her leading. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.120 Um, but I I see both. 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.600 So I think there are some guys in our church that you could ask. 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:05.919 Yeah. 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:10.159 I won't name them on the podcast and embarrass them, but I'll tell you later how I think you should ask. 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:11.279 I appreciate that. 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:11.840 Yeah. 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:14.080 Even in the mess, God is with you. 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.039 Even in the mess, God is with you. 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:25.360 Whenever I'm in sticky situations uh or situations that are messy, I often forget that. 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:39.440 Um, I often feel as though I put myself here and I have to dig myself out, and that God is kind of looking at me saying, I told you so. 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:40.720 You know what I mean? 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:41.919 Do you have to sneeze? 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:42.720 No, I'm good. 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:43.759 Oh, okay. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.279 Uh I told you so. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.480 This you know, you're gonna have to figure out how to how to get out of this. 00:11:48.799 --> 00:12:03.200 But Pastor Mike reminded us of the famous story of Jesus calming the storm, and it was a great reminder to me that he was he was there in the midst. 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.440 You know, he didn't have to come to the rescue from far away, like he was already with them. 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:12.000 What's your experience been like in the mess? 00:12:13.120 --> 00:12:15.200 Yeah, it's hard. 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:27.679 Something that Mike said that came to my mind about being in the mess is he said, even if he doesn't calm your storm by speaking to it, he will always provide a way out, like an escape route. 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:34.879 So I think for me, it doesn't in the mess, like you said, sometimes you don't feel like God is there. 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:35.840 He is there. 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:44.720 Um and even if the storm doesn't calm down, I've seen him provide ways out of the storm. 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:55.519 Obviously, I I had to be out of the storm, a little bit more removed from the situation to look back and see that because as it was happening, I could not see it. 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:02.879 So I'm trying to be more aware when I'm in the mess. 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:18.320 Obviously, it's not fun, but trying to take every day and truly see what God is trying to sh potentially show me or how he's guiding me in those situations. 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:27.440 It's hard because there's a lot of debate on if God causes you to go through messes. 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.879 Um and some people say, hey, it's just life and it happens, and then God helps you out of them. 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:36.240 So there's a lot of different theology behind that. 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:40.320 So um I think where are you at? 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:49.279 Right now, I mean, it could you could obviously evolve and change and read something in scripture that enlightens you, but today, where are you at? 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:59.120 Like my thoughts on if God that's hard because there are some really difficult, super difficult things that happen to some people. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:00.960 There are different categories of bad. 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:08.320 Some categories are like, oh, I lost my job, and then there's some really difficult categories where I've been diagnosed with cancer or something. 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:15.279 So I think it's really hard when we say, well, God has caused everything, because that can be very painful for some people. 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:24.720 So I'm still I'm still on the fence of does God cause events to happen? 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.600 But what I'm 100% sure of is God is good. 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:32.320 So no matter of whatever's happening, I don't know exactly if he's causing something or not. 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:33.440 I don't know that yet. 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.279 But what I do know is he's good. 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:40.000 So regardless of what's going on, he's still good, even if things are horrible. 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:48.799 Um, I need to remind myself, sometimes it's hard to remind myself that God is still good and he is still there, and he is by my side always. 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:53.039 That's the that's the one thing that I'm I'm sure about, but yeah. 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.519 I think it's both. 00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:59.919 I think that if you ask for my opinion on that. 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:01.679 Oh yes, Nate, what is your opinion on this? 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:02.799 Yes, thank you, Jen. 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:03.600 I think it's both. 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:10.480 If you've ever seen Star Wars, you've seen this uh oh man, is it the second one? 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.240 Or well, technically it's like the fifth one. 00:15:14.399 --> 00:15:16.879 But anyways, Empire Strikes Back, I think it's that one. 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:23.120 Which is the second movie made ever made, not chronologically in the story. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:30.559 But anyways, Yoda creates a scenario in while Luke Skywalker is training. 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:35.679 You know, he creates the scenario of Luke having to face Darth Vader. 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:42.000 And he basically said, and he he Luke goes into this pit or whatever, but before Luke Cavern. 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:50.000 Yeah, but before Luke goes, Yoda tells Luke your weapons, you will not need them, you know. 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:58.799 And Yoda says, or Luke says, what's in there, and Yoda says, Whatever you bring with you, basically. 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:25.039 So I think there are moments in time where God is, I believe God has or ultimately ordained everything, but I believe there are moments in time where God will ordain specific instances in our lives, and depending on how the outcome how we react to them is how those how those things work. 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.039 Play out, how they play out, yes. 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:28.240 Interesting. 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:40.399 So, but then again, there are times when it is because we live in a fallen and broken world and there's evil in the world, and you know what I mean? 00:16:40.559 --> 00:16:49.360 So Yeah, like Luke, sorry, going back to Star Wars, Luke could have had he had the decision to turn to the dark side if he wanted to, or continue and fight that. 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:54.879 And he in in that specific scenario, he had the decision to de-weaponize. 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:55.360 Yeah. 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:59.840 So if he goes in there, does he face Darth Vader or does he face something else? 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:01.279 You know what I mean? 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:07.440 Yeah, man, if you haven't seen Star Wars, I encourage you to see the original. 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:08.000 Yeah. 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:09.759 So before, five, six. 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:17.119 Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of theology that can be pulled from that, a lot of symmetry. 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.680 So yeah, good stuff. 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.720 But even in the mess, God is with you. 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:36.960 So Pastor Mike brought up uh three three points that he always famously says, I'm not a three-point preacher, but yeah, that was way too southern than what Mike really sounds like. 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.200 But sometimes Mike is a little southern. 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.599 He is uh basically salvation. 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:44.960 What what is salvation? 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:50.640 Salvation rescues, salvation restores, and then kind of flip he flipped it on its head for the third point. 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.720 Salvation is Jesus. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:00.880 Um and he really tried to hammer this point home through the entire message with Jesus is the necessity, not the addition. 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:04.480 And he gave an example of of the car. 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.119 Uh when when you get in the car. 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.079 Yeah, when you go to a car dealership, which we all love doing. 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:10.799 So fun. 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.039 And you sit in the car and you go, Oh, I love this about this car, and the guy goes, Yeah, that's an addition. 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:17.759 Ooh, I love this about this car, yeah, that's an addition. 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.440 When in reality, the necessity is Jesus. 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:32.960 One thing that I've noticed about my walk over the years is I become more and more convinced that I I need Jesus. 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:40.720 My question is how do you arrive there? 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:48.480 Like how like people that don't have him seem to be quote unquote from the outside doing fine. 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.519 Maybe they're not. 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:50.960 Like, you know what I mean? 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:58.480 Like, how do you arrive to a place where you feel like Jesus is is the necessity? 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.119 And I think it's through going through things. 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.079 Yeah. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:14.640 I think too I think there are a lot of holes in our lives, and I don't think we realize what those holes, what's supposed to fill those holes until we realize that it's Jesus. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.359 So I think a lot of people go through their lives. 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.519 Maybe I was also speaking from some personal experience as well. 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:27.359 Um, go through their lives and feel a hole and fill it with something. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:30.559 I don't know, it could be like excessively baking bread or something. 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:38.160 Now that's sometimes it can be bad stuff, sometimes it can be just stuff like bread or like just binge watching TV or something, I don't know. 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.480 Um, trying to fill that hole and void. 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:59.519 And I think uh when you start to learn maybe you go to church for the first time um or go back from going to church from a long time ago, you start going back, um, you learn that that hole could potentially just be that you're just missing Jesus in those moments. 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:08.240 So when things get tough, instead of stress baking or something, which is also totally fine if you do that as well, and have Jesus in that hole as well. 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.640 Put Jesus in that hole along with your stress baking. 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:16.160 So I think a lot of people go through life not realizing that they're missing that because they're filling it with things that are temporary. 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:16.640 Yeah. 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:21.039 So the first point being salvation rescues. 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:28.880 A lot of time we think of rescue as like this huge dramatic situation, like a storm where you feel like you're about to die. 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:35.359 When in reality, the rescuing could in fact be rescuing you from a void. 00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:36.000 Yeah. 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.759 The void that you feel Jesus rescues you from that. 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:40.319 Mm-hmm. 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:41.200 Does that make sense? 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.799 Yeah, and I think there's even like you were talking like it could be this huge thing. 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:47.839 I think there's also small, like daily rescues too. 00:20:48.319 --> 00:21:02.079 Rescues from, and maybe this is a little silly, but rescuing even like, oh, I'm frustrated, like let me, I'm gonna speak something when I don't really when I really shouldn't be saying that out of frustration and anger, a rescue in that moment as well. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:12.480 That hey, be slow to speak um when you're angry, and that reminder that okay, talk to Jesus first before you speak and say words that maybe are not super kind. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:18.799 I think there's some small daily rescues like that as well, as maybe the quote unquote big rescues. 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:19.680 Yeah. 00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:20.960 Yeah. 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:47.920 Man, it was interesting to hear uh Pastor Mike's perspective on the story of Mary being told that she's with child and Joseph's reaction to that because Pastor Mike is currently in that scenario of engagement and will be a married man here shortly, right? 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.440 Like a little over a little over a month right now. 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:52.319 A little over a month. 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:53.759 Pastor Mike will be a married man. 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.759 But it was it was cool to hear his perspective and how much how much love he gave. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:16.160 To Joseph, like mad props to this guy because the integrity that he had to say, Hey, I'm gonna I'm gonna honor you and and not like blast it from the root tops like this woman's a cheater and a liar, yeah. 00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:22.640 Yeah, so one of the things, yeah, that's one of my favorite things about Matthew. 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.400 Um Matthew one, let me see, it's 19. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:28.480 I'm reading from the NLT version. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.440 Joseph, to whom she was engaged, was a righteous man and did not want to disgrace her publicly. 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:35.839 So we decided to break the engagement quietly. 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:42.400 And I think I mean, like Mike kind of mentioned it too, like if that had happened, he would have been like, What? 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.319 Like, I can't like um Ashley's a wonderful person. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:47.519 They're wonderful. 00:22:47.759 --> 00:23:08.640 But uh, but he used that example, and that's one of my favorite things about I mean, I don't know Joseph, but from reading him in the Bible, like he was he seemed like a kind person, so kind that he, even though in his mind he didn't know the whole story yet, um, he thought that Mary maybe did something that wasn't great. 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:11.440 Um, come he comes to find out eventually like what actually happened. 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:12.640 He's like, okay, cool. 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.480 But um that was pretty shameful. 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:29.599 And I mean, and if you go to like the historical, like history of the times back then, like super shameful, and that stuff, you know, there was there was public disgrace for that kind of stuff. 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:39.279 Like that the woman caught in adultery, like they dragged her out into pretty much like the quote unquote square of the town, you know, and for public display. 00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:44.400 So that stuff was not handled maybe as well as it should be. 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:56.240 And that's my favorite part about him is he was a he seemed like a very kind person um and wanted to do I think a great thing by okay, this is not for me. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:01.200 I'm going to, you know, I uh we're gonna step away from this, but I'm not gonna disgrace her publicly. 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:05.039 So he comes to find out really what happened, and yay, great, everything's awesome. 00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:06.079 But yeah, yeah. 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:16.960 Yeah, very interesting perspective, I thought, and specifically from uh Pastor Mike being in that arena at the moment. 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:27.440 Yeah, because what if Joseph like freaked out and did all that stuff before he found out, like disgraced her publicly before before the angel came and told him, like, ooh. 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:29.440 Oh, my bad. 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:30.079 Yeah. 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.359 So I mean, hey, maybe it was God working in him as well. 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.960 Yo, Mary, my bad. 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.759 So, um, I'm sorry. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.759 Sorry, God. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.880 Number two, salvation restores. 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:59.200 And Pastor Mike spoke about there are we're going through obviously 2020 is gonna be like its own, it's gonna have a it's gonna be like a a a a noun that we use. 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:00.960 Like that's so 2020. 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.240 I feel like the craziness and uncertainty. 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.720 There'll be a small history book just on 2020. 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:07.920 Yeah, exactly. 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:20.559 But he talked about how there are some things that are coming out of this that are showing a lot of us, I don't know, areas for improvement. 00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:22.079 Yeah, I guess. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:28.240 And he said one thing he said is why would we want to go back to the way it was? 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.000 Why would we want to go back to the same old, same old? 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:49.680 And it's something that I've talked about before, I think on After the Message, but just this innate human desire to kind of coast and be okay with we always say like we always say we don't like change. 00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:55.839 When in reality, like we like change, like we like things to be different, we don't like the process of it, yeah. 00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:58.160 But we we like change, right? 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:03.680 But there's this there's this theme that's like, gosh, I just can't wait to get back to normal. 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:12.480 And Pastor Mike saying, like, let's pump the brakes on that, on saying that, because why would we want to go back to the way things were? 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:16.480 Yeah, just because they were quote unquote normal doesn't mean they were good. 00:26:16.640 --> 00:26:16.799 Right. 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.680 Which I think is what he's also alluding to. 00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.400 And yeah. 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:26.240 I think it's all a perspective, right? 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:27.839 What do you mean by that? 00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:36.079 Like it's all a perspective, like you don't know something's you don't know something's broken, maybe, until you get a different angle on it. 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:36.880 Yeah. 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:57.759 So and I think that's one of the great things about about the God that we serve is a lot of times the restoration seems a little bit more like a breaking, or a little bit more harsh, or a little bit more uncomfortable than we thought it should be. 00:26:57.920 --> 00:26:58.240 Yeah. 00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:04.640 But a lot of times when you're restoring something, you gotta break it down first, you sand it down, you know what I mean? 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:16.319 You you gotta we just got this cruiser bike that's sitting in our driveway that you want to restore, but you gotta bad you gotta take the rust off, and that requires a little bit of elbow grease. 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.880 Yeah, and I think about there's our coffee table too that we got. 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.359 Um, I love some DIYs kind of thing. 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:32.160 So we had a coffee table that was filled with like spray tack and paint, like horrible layers and layers of it, and it had a beautiful mid-century style to it. 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:38.400 And I sanded that thing for days and then restained it, and now it's beautiful. 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.240 And I and that sanding was like super abrasive and like rough. 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:50.160 And I think that's that's a great example of restoring because I think the process is horrible. 00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:59.680 There's dust and stuff flying everywhere, and the sandpaper rubbing against stuff, but then once you're done, it's beautifully stained and shiny and new. 00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:02.880 And sometimes maybe even um, what's the word? 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.079 To strengthen something again. 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:08.720 I don't know. 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.839 I can't think of the word, but almost like if something's broken, like you fix it so it stands stronger. 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:15.519 I can't think of the word right now. 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.759 Um, but anyway, so sometimes it's even stronger and better than it was before. 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:25.039 So why would you want to go back to that normal or the what it was when it could be so much better? 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:25.440 Yeah. 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:33.279 And I heard somebody say, I don't know who it was, but 2020 is like a rebuilding for everyone. 00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:39.839 The whole world is going through a new a restoring, if you want to say, um, a rebuilding. 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.599 And it stinks right now, but we'll come out of this so much better. 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:44.960 And that person's very positive. 00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:45.519 I love it. 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.799 But do you do you truly believe that? 00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:50.160 I don't know if I believe that. 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:51.839 Like we'll come out so much better. 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:58.079 I don't know if I believe that, but I think people can take that and say, you know what, I am gonna take this year. 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:03.200 That was not what anyone planned it would look like. 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:12.559 Um, take this year, reflect on maybe what I've learned and try to apply that to 2021. 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:20.319 Um because yeah, I don't I don't want to necessarily go back to normal or what things were they weren't bad before. 00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:22.640 That doesn't necessarily mean it was bad before. 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.039 Right. 00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:27.680 Um, and maybe some things weren't great, but it doesn't necessarily say that everything was bad. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.920 Um, but things can always be better. 00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:40.160 And maybe things we were like lazy about, we can refocus and you know, like get up early and do devotional, something simple like that, I think. 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:41.519 Yeah. 00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:42.880 Yeah, I agree. 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:43.920 I agree with that. 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:52.720 I I think I think it's up to it's up to each, even down to the individual level, but organizationally, yes. 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:55.039 How are you gonna how are you gonna respond? 00:29:55.119 --> 00:30:00.480 You know, I don't I don't know if collectively the entire world is gonna come out of it. 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:01.359 I don't know. 00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:11.599 Yeah, I think that was a very blanket statement, but I think people could use it as a I mean, God's definitely gonna use it to restore some things for sure. 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:13.839 And that's something that I definitely believe. 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:17.119 Final one, salvation is Jesus. 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:24.160 We can magnify what is around us more than we magnify the God who is with us. 00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.200 How often do we do that? 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.640 I mean, I do it all the time. 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:29.359 Yeah. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:40.079 Because it's really I mean, it's so easy to say, like it's easier way easier to say, like, well, even through this tough time, like God's still with me. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:43.039 Yeah, but it still sucks. 00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:48.880 I think it's hard because the things around you you can actually see. 00:30:49.119 --> 00:31:01.440 So the things that are happening, I don't know what they are, but there are some you can see things happening, and uh God doesn't sometimes God doesn't work that way. 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:06.480 I mean that segues right into what Pastor Mike said. 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.880 Seeing is not believing, believing is seeing. 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:10.400 Oh, yeah, that was good. 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:13.279 Yeah, I guess sometimes it's hard. 00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:21.039 I think also we can get so distracted we don't see what God is doing because there's so much visual noise in our faces. 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:30.480 Um so sometimes we get overwhelmed and it's easy to not see God in the situation because we see all the stuff around us in front of our faces. 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:39.759 Um what are some things that you try to do to mitigate noise and to f and to really focus on on God? 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:48.160 I think for me, man, it I guess it depends on the circumstance too, whatever what whatever's happening. 00:31:48.400 --> 00:32:01.519 For me, I need to get it's great to be in community a hundred percent, but I also need some time alone to process my thoughts and think and also talk to God because community is super important. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:11.519 And I obviously need to get, you know, I want to get advice from people and talk with people, but I also need to get advice from a really important source, which is God. 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.759 And I need to make sure that I do that as well as listen to community and the people around me. 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:29.680 Um, so for me, it's getting alone, reducing the noise, whether that's you know, I don't know, going into my house and going into my room, or um, we have a little sunroom. 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.640 I could go in there, I have a desk where I have a ton of ton of art supplies around. 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.599 Even getting in that space talk about noise. 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.480 Oh gosh, I try to keep it organized. 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:42.960 Listen, I'm the cleanest artist you'll ever meet. 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:43.839 True. 00:32:44.079 --> 00:32:46.160