WEBVTT 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:04.959 Welcome to the Celebration Church Orlando podcast. 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:06.799 Thank you so much for listening today. 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:09.199 We hope it encourages you and inspires you. 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:16.000 Hey Church, welcome to Church at Home. 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.480 We're so glad that you are with us today. 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:23.679 If this is your first time here, my name is Nate, and uh just so thankful that you've decided to join us. 00:00:23.839 --> 00:00:35.359 We if uh you've been with us for any amount of time, this is a little bit of a different format, but uh today we are starting our new series called What Did Real What Did Jesus Really Say About Blank? 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:37.039 And today we're talking about truth. 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.159 Uh what did Jesus really say about truth? 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:43.920 Uh and I have uh some distinguished guests up here with me. 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:44.799 Very distinguished. 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:53.600 Pastor Mike is here with us today, Pastor Keith and Pastor Megan Pittman, and then Pastor Josh and Pastor Callie Azelle are here with us today. 00:00:53.679 --> 00:01:00.159 And uh, we're going to kick off our series talking about truth because uh truth is the foundation for anything else that we talk about in this series. 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:00.640 Absolutely. 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:08.239 Pastor Keith, why don't you go ahead and give us some context about the scripture that we're looking at today in John and kind of what's going on in this story? 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:08.879 Absolutely. 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:18.560 So, and what I what I really want to do is allow us, like with this particular passage, but just the overall um goal for this this entire series is for us to examine the life of Jesus. 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:21.040 Here, here's the thing that you're gonna hear us probably say quite a bit. 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:23.040 Jesus is perfect theology. 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:36.480 When Jesus says that he is the image of the invisible God, when he says to Philip, to see me is to see the Father, he's saying, if we really want to know what the mind and heart and will of God is, let's examine the life and the ministry and the words of Jesus. 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:51.040 And so what this series is looking to do is to really examine what Jesus says about a lot of these culturally relevant topics so that we can stop just saying, hey, the Bible says, and have different ways that we can selectively pick certain passages of scripture and weaponize the Bible for our own intent. 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:59.439 But no, let's like look at what Jesus actually says and does, and that'll help us to really have a healthy understanding of what the mind and heart and will of God is with that. 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:09.439 And so, truth, like you said, like we have to start with truth because everything that we're gonna talk about throughout the rest of this series, which is gonna include things such as cancel culture, is that the way that the kingdom of God operates? 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:09.599 Yeah. 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.080 Talking about things such as politics, what is what does that mean in the context of our belief system? 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:15.680 What about equality and justice? 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.120 These powerful topics and things that are so relevant for us today. 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:20.560 What does Jesus say about them? 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:23.360 And so every week we're gonna be tackling a different one of these. 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:27.680 So I pray that everybody can stay engaged and encouraged because I do think it's gonna be transformative. 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:29.840 But for today, we're talking about truth. 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:32.719 And so that's a very, that's a very broad topic. 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.680 That's a that's something that I realize we're we're venturing into the deep end. 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.719 But here at Celebration Orlando, we're not afraid of the deep end at all. 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:39.120 That's right. 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.520 And so the passage of scripture that I want us to look at is gonna be found in the Gospel of John, chapter 18. 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:47.919 And Mike, I'm gonna ask you to read a passage, but just to kind of set it up so we all kind of know where we're going with it. 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:50.159 This is Jesus before he's about to be crucified. 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.599 And so ultimately what happens is, of course, he's been betrayed by Judas. 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.199 He gets arrested, he kind of gets dragged around to a couple of courts, and now he's finally standing before Pontius Pilate. 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.319 He's like the Roman governor, he's like the one who represents all the laws for the Roman land. 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:12.800 And so the Jews knew at the time that they could not issue an execution, they had to go through Rome in order to get an execution, which is what their desire was for Jesus. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:24.319 And so Jesus and Pilate have this powerful conversation that introduces this existential idea of what is truth, and and it then from that it unravels, and I think there's some things that we can extract from it. 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:32.000 So, so Mike, if you don't mind, can you read um John chapter 18, verses 33 through 40, um, to kind of set this all up for us? 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:38.800 So Pilate entered his headquarters again and called Jesus and said to him, Are you the king of the Jews? 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:42.319 Jesus answered, Do you say this of your own accord? 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.439 Or did others say this to you about me? 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.240 Pilate answered, I am, am I a Jew? 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:52.159 Your own nation, the chief priests have delivered you over to me. 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.680 What have you done? 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.039 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:07.360 If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting that I might not be delivered over to the Jews, but my kingdom is not from the world. 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:10.639 Then Pilate said to him, So you are a king? 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:13.520 Jesus answered, You say that I am a king. 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:19.920 For this purpose I was born, and for this purpose I have come into the world to bear witness to the truth. 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.319 Everyone who is of this of the truth listens to my voice. 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:26.720 Pilate said to him, What is truth? 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:39.120 After he said this, he went back outside to the Jews and told them, I find no guilt in him, but you have a custom that I should release one man for you at the Passover. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.040 So, do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews? 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.879 They cried out again, not this man, but Barabbas. 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.600 Now Barabbas was a robber. 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:51.920 So there's there's a lot, right? 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:55.279 There's a there's so much that we can unpack with this. 00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:05.519 And what I want to do is I want to spend a couple of moments just just just kind of setting up this idea of this whole interaction between Jesus and Pilate and that powerful question, what is truth? 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:08.079 Like that is that is that is the that is the key thought. 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:08.879 What is truth? 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:18.160 And so, and the thing that Pilate does that's so interesting that I think a lot of people do is that he asks this question, but if you notice in the text, he doesn't even wait for the response. 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:19.920 He literally just says, What is truth? 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:21.120 And he turns around and walks away. 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:27.519 And I and I think that we I think we live in a culture where people are seeking truth, but they're not really looking for answers. 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:34.399 They just they just kind of have their own, they just kind of have their own feelings or thoughts on it, and they're looking for ways to affirm what they already believe. 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:40.720 Instead of actually looking for the word of God to transform them, they try to find ways that the Bible can affirm what they already believe. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:46.560 And so when this concept of truth gets introduced, are we actually staying to listen to what the response is? 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:58.879 And I think what's important for us is when we consider truth and all these different ideas and the forms that it can take, it's really like looking at the different types of truth and how they influence culture, but then how that works its way into our faith. 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:04.639 And so ultimately, we're talking about concepts such as um relativism and subjectivism. 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.680 Those are like the two big buckets um that it falls into. 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:13.680 And so what relativism is, is this idea that the truth is it's ever evolving. 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:18.079 It's hard for it to be anchored down into one thing that's absolutely and it never changes. 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:25.519 It's almost like, yeah, I agree that I agree that stealing is wrong unless my family is starving, then it's okay. 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:33.040 I have I agree that that lying is wrong unless it's for the benefit of me trying to do something that I believe that's gonna be helpful. 00:06:33.199 --> 00:06:39.199 And so we kind of find these ways that we can find this approach that allows us to approach it in different ways. 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:46.319 Have you guys ever seen instances where, yeah, I have this belief, but there's like a little asterisk next to it that I can I can change it, I can move it around a little bit. 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:47.680 It's it's a little bit convenient. 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.560 I know that there's been times where um, man, we're just gonna put it out there. 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:53.839 I remember there's times when like you go into the mission field and you guys can speak to this. 00:06:54.079 --> 00:07:02.160 And like when you're checking into customs at and at other countries and you're not allowed to say that you're there as a missionary because like it's illegal. 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:03.279 Like you got a Bible? 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:03.839 No, I don't know. 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:04.800 I got a Bible in the middle. 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.680 So like I know you guys have had some instances with that. 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:11.920 Usually a hundred dollar bill cures everything. 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.360 Like, I don't know what you're talking about. 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:22.000 We've never done that ever anywhere for any reason whatsoever, not even to get food into a country. 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:24.720 Yeah, we've never smuggled anything into a country. 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:25.040 No. 00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:27.519 No, I mean, there are definitely been moments like that. 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.399 I remember my this is my first mission trip overseas. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:36.639 I went to China and we were taking Bibles to the underground church, and you could not bring Bibles into China at that time. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:41.360 And you still you can now, but you have to have certain like waivers and things signed by the government. 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:50.399 And so we had duffel bags filled with Bibles, but then we put like a layer over top of it and then filled them with like stuffed animal toys that we were taking to an orphanage. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:55.439 And so literally, the guy who was in the trip, he's like, Listen, there's a red line and a green line. 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:57.680 Go straight to the green line, do not say anything. 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:02.480 If they ask if you have anything at all, you go, No, we don't have anything, but we were doing it for Jesus. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.199 So, you know, you do what you're told on a strip. 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.839 Someone says go straight and say no words, you say okay. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:09.360 Yeah, that's and that's truth. 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.120 You you just yeah, you gotta do what you're told. 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.439 It was relative to the moment, it's relative to the moment. 00:08:13.600 --> 00:08:22.560 And so we we have those instances, but then we also have like subjectivism, which basically kind of concludes that the idea that I, as the subject, I determine what truth is. 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:22.800 Right. 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:29.360 I don't have to submit it to any other thing, it doesn't have to be connected to anyone else's reality, it's it's my personal take on it. 00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:32.399 And so we'll often hear people say that this is my truth. 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:41.440 I believe like this is my truth, but the problem is when I allow something that's like my opinion, my preferences to transcend those things and they become truth. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:48.559 Well, now we're in this weird chaotic space where like my truth is my truth, and you have to respect my truth, and you can't challenge my truth. 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:51.840 And if you do challenge my truth, it shows a form of intolerance. 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:58.240 I mean, yeah, I think that we're living in a culture where absolutely we have this subjective truth that's working its way into our culture. 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:06.879 Have you guys ever seen any instances where like just this subjective have it your way um on-demand truth kind of works its way out into culture? 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.200 Yeah, I think there's definitely a difference between information and truth. 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:18.240 So we live in the information age, you know, so everybody is looking for facts or whatever it may be online. 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.559 So everyone's looking for Nate's old rap CD. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:26.240 Or is it cassette? 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:27.600 Like, how far back did we go? 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:28.639 No, it's an A-track. 00:09:29.679 --> 00:09:40.320 Oh so yeah, I think we have to understand the difference between the two, you know. 00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:49.919 Um, and I I think Jesus actually he points it out in this passage, reminding Pilate that I'm not of this world, you know, I'm from heaven. 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:56.639 So if we're looking for if we're looking for truth, we can't look to the world to provide it for us. 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:57.679 You know what I mean? 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:01.360 Um, so I I think Jesus kind of answers that question. 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:01.679 Yeah. 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:02.159 He does. 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:14.399 And and what I think he what he does so brilliantly is that he's he's cautioning us when he makes a statement like my kingdom is not of this world, he's he's challenging us to make sure that we have a kingdom perspective, an eternal perspective with all of these things. 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:33.759 Because I think we all find ourselves when we're like, as people who are citizens of heaven, those of us who are walking with God while also recognizing that we live in a fallen and broken world and we we have to live sometimes with ambiguity, how how do I, how do I function with a kingdom mindset while still continuing to coexist in a world that acts as if God never existed? 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:41.360 Well, we have all these concepts of truth, and unfortunately, what happens is the convenience of those truths begins to work their way into our theology. 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:53.440 They begin to work their way into our belief system, and now the same way that I can pick and choose what I feel is best for my family, I then work that free will into scripture, and I could just pick and choose what I want in the Bible. 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:59.759 I don't I don't like that, so I'm just not gonna recognize that, or I don't feel good about that passage of scripture, so I'm just gonna skip over it and ignoring it. 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:07.039 And we allow that subjectivism to work its way into our theology, and now we have this chaotic belief system that this is my truth. 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.559 Yeah, and I know the Bible says this about tithing, but that's just not my truth. 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:11.600 I'm just gonna ignore that part. 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:19.759 I know the Bible says this about um premarital sex, but that's so that's so old, that's so archaic, that's so you know, that's so culturely irrelevant. 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:21.840 And here's the thing that I think we have to make sure of. 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:32.559 I want to hear from you guys with this, but I think one of the mistakes that people can make is that they can look at something just because it's in the Bible and it's connected to culture, they can believe that it somehow is an endorsement from God. 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:33.519 Case in point. 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:42.080 When I've when I've kind of entered this idea about subjectivism and all these other things, what people will often say, well, yeah, you know, the Bible can sometimes be outdated. 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:43.600 Like, look at slavery. 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.159 There's moments in scripture where it talks about slavery. 00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:50.879 So, how do you recognize, like, okay, that was a cultural thing back then, that's not acceptable now. 00:11:51.120 --> 00:12:00.159 So we can look at the Bible and see some things that didn't transcend and and and and it allows us to kind of build this um this house of cards that allows us to have selective theology. 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:04.399 Problem with that is just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean that it's endorsed by God. 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.120 So, what we realize is that we're in a fallen and broken world. 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:18.720 So if you want to have the purest understanding of how God sees creation, he sees mankind, you look at Eden before the fall, and you look at Eden in Revelation post um when Jesus comes back and gets his church. 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.759 That is what the mind and will and heart of God has always been. 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:26.639 Everything in between is God's redemptive plan, putting things back into their proper place. 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.240 So just because slavery is in the Bible, right, that is not God's endorsement of it. 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:38.399 But if we're not careful, we'll begin to pick and choose something that was culturally connected, apply to other biblical truths, and now we're all over the map in regards to what we believe. 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:40.399 So that's kind of some of the things we have to look at. 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:46.240 So when we look at Jesus having this conversation with Pilate, this is where I want to talk about this for a moment. 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.279 Because Jesus makes this statement, and I really want to hear from you, guys. 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:56.720 He says, um, like Pilate and Jesus are talking, and he says, Okay, so Pilate's like, okay, so are you are you are you a king? 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:59.679 And and Jesus says, like, okay, are you asking me on your own? 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.240 Right, yeah, or are you asking this because somebody told you to? 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:02.639 Yeah. 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:11.919 This is the brilliance of Jesus, and this is something that I think that when you look at like his life throughout scripture, when people came to ask him questions, he would often pose questions right back to him. 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.200 It's called the Socratic method. 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:15.759 Like Jesus said, like he would, and and here's the reason why. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:16.320 Here's the reason why. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:18.399 We all do, we all do. 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:20.639 Like I've I'm I'm literally like doing that with my son now. 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:21.840 Like he asked me something okay. 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:23.440 He's like, I'm gonna ask you a question now. 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:28.639 And and and here's the reason why is because Jesus realizes that question has intent. 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:28.960 Yeah. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:35.519 And if we don't deal with the intent behind the question, yeah, no matter what my answer is, it's not gonna satisfy what you're looking for. 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:45.360 So when he says, like, are you asking me if I'm a king, there's nothing I'm gonna be able to say that's going to change your mind unless you're actually coming with a proper intent to discover whether I'm a king or not. 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.639 Pilate, he was looking for an answer, but he wasn't looking for the solution. 00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:48.799 Yeah. 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:51.840 And I think that's kind of the tension that we see here in this passage. 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:57.360 But then when we go a little bit further, Pilate is looking at truth and he can't even recognize it. 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:00.639 He's he's staring right at truth and he can't even see it. 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:05.759 That means that sometimes the truth can be staring us right in our face and we don't even see it. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:12.559 Like, what are what are some things that you guys have seen where it's like the truth is right there, but but somehow our culture misses it. 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.759 Sometimes we miss it. 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:19.919 These moments where it's right in front of our eyes, but somehow we we can't get past ourselves to see it for what it really is. 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:32.399 I mean, I'll just say I think it comes down to seeking it, you know, because it's not like I don't really think that he was really seeking what the truth was, because we even see, like he goes on to say, like he's not guilty. 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.480 And he doesn't just say it one time. 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:36.799 So it's like he knows what the truth is. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.320 But then again, don't we all know what the truth is when we when we're met with it? 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:53.360 But he wasn't seeking it, which further on, you know, if you if you read a little bit ahead, like a little bit above from where we read today, um, you can see like the Pharisees and all them, they brought Jesus to Pilate early in the morning. 00:14:53.440 --> 00:15:02.960 Like if you read the text, it's early in the morning, which get got me thinking like, well, y'all were seeking your own motive early in the morning when you should have been seeking Jesus, you should have been seeking God. 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.159 That's scripture. 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:05.840 If you seek me early, you'll find me. 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:09.600 So they were never seeking truth in that moment to start with. 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:23.840 And so, well, I mean, I might, because the problem is when here's what happens when you seek what I have found, when you seek after your own motive, then almost every single time it will almost almost always hold captive truth. 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:29.759 So it's like in that moment, and this is what we see is taking place, they're now they're now having truth captive. 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.559 And so, because they're they're they're seeking after their own motive. 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:40.639 So now everything that is coming after what they did is now the result of them not seeking truth in the first place. 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:42.559 So now it's just a domino effect. 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.399 So then that is another reason why Pilate can't see what truth is, even though it's in front of him, because he's going with society. 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.120 He keeps going back to them saying, Well, what do you want me to do? 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.360 And they're now putting forth their own motive. 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:59.519 So it's going to continue to go down this trail because now the water is completely tainted. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:15:59.759 Yeah. 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:05.279 Well, yeah, and there's a there's a there's something to support your opinion out there now. 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:05.519 Right. 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:07.600 Kind of like I was alluding to earlier, yeah. 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.399 Everybody has written something or someone can back what you're trying to say. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:17.279 So, like you were saying, people aren't seeking truth, they're just seeking comfort for what they already believe. 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:23.039 Yes, and so I I think that I think that that's difficult to separate for us in this time, you know. 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.519 Because I think people like you find what you go looking for. 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:33.759 So if you're looking for something that's gonna back up what you already think or feel or believe, you're gonna find it, like you said. 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:35.759 But you can also, I think, even do that with the Bible. 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.919 How many people take the Bible so far out of context, like with what you're saying with slavery? 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:43.519 You want to find something that tells women to sit down and be quiet, you're gonna find it in there. 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:44.639 That's not what the Bible says. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.559 Like so, you have to like know like, am I actually looking for truth? 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.639 And if I am, am I going in with open eyes? 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.600 Because it makes me think about like, I feel like we tell stories about our kids all the time. 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.240 But I'm like, Mia, go get your shoes. 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:57.440 What shoes? 00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.200 Yeah, we need to go. 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:00.240 Can you please go get your shoes? 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.960 We gotta go. 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:01.759 Um, where? 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:06.079 And I'm like, kid, like literally a loser, please help me out here. 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.400 And so like sounds like me with my 16-year-old. 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.960 It doesn't get any better, but it's kind of encouraging. 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.319 But I think I feel like that's how people go looking for stuff. 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.440 You're like, here's here's like, you know, here's the truth of what the Bible says. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839 Where? 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:18.720 What? 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:19.440 I don't see that. 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:24.559 Yeah, they'll do that, or they'll call the friend that they know that's gonna agree with them. 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:24.799 Correct. 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:26.640 Like, think of how many times that happens. 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:40.319 Like, I know for me, like, I would a whole lot rather call the person who knows gonna agree with me than to call than the well, not to talk to you, but then to call the person who's gonna be like, yo, bro, like you need to get off your high horse and go apologize to your wife and make things right. 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:46.400 Like, it's a lot easier to call someone or talk to someone who's gonna like then support like what you're already feeling. 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:51.039 And so I think so many times we can, you know, do like Mia does and look around like, where, what? 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.920 Or we're calling and we're talking to people that then back up what we're already feeling in that moment. 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.680 Yeah, I found that in that text it was like a compromise. 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:08.480 It was like I'm gonna compromise to appease the crowd because a lot of times they didn't want riots breaking out, especially during the feasts and stuff like that. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.599 And so um I found that man, he wanted to really appease the crowd. 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:25.039 And instead of him making a decision, he was like, I'm gonna leave it to you guys to make the decision and I'm gonna make sure that there's no riot that's gonna happen on my watch and just caved into the demands of the people. 00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:31.839 And I think so many times in our life, um, that can be the pressure that we feel when we make decisions and stuff like that. 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:36.640 We're listening to the crowds and stuff like that, instead of listening to Jesus, the truth, yeah. 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.640 Um, we make those decisions because of the pressures and the demands of the people. 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:42.559 And we want to be liked, you know? 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:44.640 So the easy way out, yeah, right. 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:45.759 Like make it go away. 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.160 Yeah. 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.359 I think you hit something too because you said pressure, because I feel like that is what he was feeling that whole time. 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:52.720 Yeah, it's that pressure. 00:18:52.799 --> 00:19:01.599 It's like, how much can people push on you to say, like, oh, well, if you if you don't take this to be true, then that means you're not you're not part of our whole grouping. 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:02.400 You're not part of it. 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.480 Because they keep bashing him, they're like, oh, well, you know, like how can you be for Caesar? 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.319 You know, I mean, they keep going after him. 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.640 They're like, they're I mean, they're on him, so it's like, what do you do when you fill back into a corner? 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.799 And like, are you still gonna stand for the truth? 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:19.759 You know, and take that stand because sometimes the truth will will have a price. 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:21.440 Like it does, it does have a price. 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.240 There could be a cost, you know, but it's like, what do you do? 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:25.200 Are you gonna settle? 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:30.480 But I mean, pressure, I mean, pressure will cause anybody to do things that they never thought they would. 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:30.720 Right. 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:35.279 If you look at this whole situation, it's literally it's it's what we're talking about, it's relative truth. 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:35.599 Right. 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:35.839 Yeah. 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:47.359 So literally, like Pilate is staring like the absolute truth, Jesus, like truth in like human form, like in the face, but then he goes out and he conforms to what is going on around him. 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.079 The culture, the culture is saying, This is what we're gonna do. 00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:54.319 Yeah, and they're actually looking at it like this guy is saying he's the king of the Jews, but this guy, he's a robber. 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.559 We'll take the robber. 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:11.839 Like the whole entire thing is based on, I mean, it's it's literally, and and I would say predominantly for like in experiences that that I've had, more people fall into like the relative category than even the subjective category. 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.519 Um, there is a lot of subjectivism, subjectivism, I can't even say that word right. 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:16.720 I'm from the country, you know what I mean? 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:22.960 But with relative, it's like it literally is is like wherever I'm at, I will conform to where I'm at. 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:28.240 So if I'm in one situation, then I'm gonna be like what I need to be in that situation. 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:28.720 That's right. 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:32.559 And then if I'm in this situation, I'm gonna do this because I need to fit in in this situation. 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:38.720 And it really comes from just this ultimate thing inside of us that just wants to feel wanted, we want to feel loved, we want to feel valued. 00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:45.440 And so now we let our truth then conform to wherever we're at so that we feel loved, valued, and accepted. 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.759 Yeah, but then the problem is you look at yourself in the mirror and you ask yourself, what do I really believe? 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.799 And you get to where Pilate is where he's like, What is truth? 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.480 Yeah, or even what do I believe and even who am I? 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:02.000 So when you were saying like how we kind of conform, I think there's a space where where grace allows that to breathe a little bit. 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:08.400 So we look at like the life of Paul, and Paul has that famous statement, you know, I become all things to all men that I might win some. 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:11.599 But he never did that at the expense of losing who he was. 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:15.599 When he spoke in the context of Greek, that's because he had a Greek background. 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.440 When he spoke in the context of Roman citizenship, that's because that's who where he was from. 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.720 When he spoke in the context of being Jewish, that's because of who he was. 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.559 Paul never conformed into anything that wasn't truly who he was. 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:33.759 But I think unfortunately, we end up conforming into things that aren't even a representation of who we are or what God's word says about us. 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.960 And so one of the things that I see, and I think the the parallels are interesting. 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:44.240 On one hand, you have Pilate who's caving in to the cultural pressure, the the compromise, and all that stuff. 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:50.319 But on the flip side, kind of like you were saying, like, like they arrested Jesus, like truth is captive. 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:59.759 And then check this out the people who are like they literally memorize the first five books of the Bible, they they study the prophets, they know the word of God. 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.480 God. 00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.039 And so they are supposed to be familiar with truth. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:17.920 And ultimately, what ended up happening is the people that are supposed to be followers of God are taking the truth and giving it over to culture, which was Pilate, and allowing him to make a verdict on what truth is instead of them being able to be the ones who are able to recognize truth for what it is. 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:23.519 And if there's something that I could say as a critique to the followers of God, it is. 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:36.400 We are allowing the truth to be defined by culture, by politics and other preferences, and we're allowing the world to define truth instead of us being the people that say this is what the truth is, and we're unwavering. 00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:40.960 We're not going to surrender truth to the world and allow the world to then tell us what the truth is supposed to be. 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:47.680 We're supposed to be the people of God that models, that emulates, and stands on the truth, no matter how uncomfortable, no matter what the pressure is. 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:55.680 So I see this tension where you have the people of God who should recognize truth, but we end up looking for other people to tell us how we're supposed to put it into practice. 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.559 But then we also have Pilate, on the other hand, who, when you talk about community, I just thought about this. 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:05.440 Do you remember how um how Pilate's wife said, like, hey, listen, we don't need none of this. 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:06.720 I had a dream about this dude. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:06.960 Yeah. 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:08.319 Don't have nothing to do with this. 00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:09.920 Be good people. 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:11.200 Right. 00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:12.559 Right. 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.599 Just stay out of it. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:18.880 Um, but even in spite of all that, the pressure, and like kind of like what we're talking about, but he had his wife. 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.279 His wife, his wife, come on, come on, child. 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.119 I've learned, I've learned. 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:31.039 It's taken me several years that sometimes the Holy Spirit and my wife's voice are the same. 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:32.720 I've learned that for myself. 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:33.599 This is true. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.640 But his wife was like, listen, you don't want these problems. 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.799 Like, like separate yourself from it. 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:45.440 But but that's what it means when you allow he'd rather listen to the pressure of people than listen to the voice of his wife. 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.079 Come on. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.799 So, how do we like as people like who do follow Christ? 00:23:50.960 --> 00:24:09.039 And if you are on that path of, you know, you're you're hearing the voice of God, but you don't know exactly like if you're hearing from God truly, what are the steps that they can do to ensure that they are following Christ so that they when they do have truth, they're not wavering by the pressures of the crowd? 00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:17.119 Yeah, it's interesting because in if in the scripture, it takes Pilate a little bit of time to get to that point. 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.680 Whereas if he would have just stuck with his original assessment, it would have been fine. 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:30.400 But he even uh in in some of the other books it talks about how he he kind of passes Jesus off to Herod, like, all right, you deal with it instead of dealing with it himself. 00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:32.480 Yeah, I think we do the same thing. 00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:39.759 It's more uh it's it's more perpetual, and it's not we don't stick to what we originally uh believed in the first place. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.599 So I think to answer your question, it's a daily decision. 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:50.319 Yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's dying daily to yourself and recognizing the truth on the daily, you know. 00:24:51.039 --> 00:24:52.880 I think too, sorry, we gotta say, no, go, please. 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:57.119 I just think to add to that too, is like so as believers, right? 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:09.359 As Christians, like when you are saved, like you have the Spirit of God that lives on the inside of you, and so if the Holy Spirit is like alive and like inside of me, then he's going to be telling me what the truth is. 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:26.000 He's going to be leading me in the truth and lit and me learning to listen and to hear that voice and to hear the voice of God that is gonna be telling me because if I'm in a situation and I'm presented with two things, like he he's not gonna be the one telling me, like, hey, go this direction when it should be this. 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:32.480 Like, he's the voice of truth, and I need to learn how to recognize that and to learn it, and then also to test it in the word of God. 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.960 And so I think so many times like we forget, like, the spirit of God lives inside of me. 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:39.759 I know what the truth is, like it's inside of me. 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.759 I just need to listen and I need to follow. 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:42.160 Right. 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:43.119 That's good. 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.599 And I think when the part that you said about like testing it in his in his word. 00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.960 So you know, scripture talks about how we have to try every spirit, right? 00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:59.599 So that means that literally, like, whenever like we're in in different environments, depending on what your church context is, um, there are times that somebody may come up and say, Man, I got a word for you, brother Michael. 00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:01.599 Like and and you listen to it. 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.240 And you run away. 00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.240 Right. 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:11.519 But then it's your responsibility to kind of take that word in to discern is this consistent with the word of God? 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.119 The thing that we have to remember is that God is not schizophrenic. 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:15.440 Right. 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.880 He will not by his spirit tell you to do something that is not consistent with his word. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.559 Like it actually is perfect harmony together. 00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:36.400 So, what I typically do, kind of to answer your question, Megan, is I I've learned to listen to my feelings, I've learned to listen to people around me, such as you, but then I always take that and I gotta say, where is this in scripture? 00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:40.880 And not conveniently find it in scripture, but where is this connected with the nature of God? 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:50.720 This is kind of like what you were saying, Callie, about how we can kind of like bring our own inferences into text and find ways to justify certain positions, such as um women preachers and things like that. 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.160 We remove the context of it, we don't take any of that stuff into consideration. 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.359 We just read something for the hope of affirming something we already believed. 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:03.599 So for me, what I typically do when I'm trying to discern, okay, what is God saying about this is I'm not looking for a single passage. 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.200 Like this is just me now talking. 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:13.759 I'll typically look for something that is expressed in the Old Testament, something that's found in the book of Proverbs, something that Jesus talks about, something that is reinforced through Paul's writings. 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:22.480 That allows me to have a holistic understanding of the mind, heart, and nature of God around that given subject that then allows me to have a creative ruling on it. 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.960 But I can't take a single passage out of context and say, well, hey, you see, this says it right here. 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.319 I guess that's what it means we have to do. 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:30.559 You know how, you know how crazy that could be? 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:39.519 Like, I remember you, I won't say who, but I remember, I remember a friend of mine was like, Man, like, I just pray that God like breaks my enemy's teeth. 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:41.119 I was like, I was like, what? 00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:42.799 He's like, well, yeah, David prayed that prayer. 00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:49.519 I'm like, but that's that's you can't pray that that's that's like but unfortunately we can, I mean, it was all done with goats, right? 00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:55.359 But we can look at something in in the Bible and find ways to say, Lord, hey, the Bible says it, so I'm just gonna pray that. 00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:57.599 No, is that consistent with the nature of God? 00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:01.599 Do we see that from beginning to end that this is a part of who God is? 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:07.200 And that's how I kind of like reduce, like, okay, this is how I recognize what I believe God is speaking to us in this instance. 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:18.960 Yeah, and I'll say that too, like for pastors, you know, we look at preachers on TV and stuff like that, and we tend to believe everything that they say, but do we test, um, test it with the Bible to make sure everything is true? 00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:29.599 Because a lot of times we'll receive misinformation, and that information that we receive, once we receive it and we hear the actual the actual truth, we can't move from that because that was the first thing that we heard. 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:30.319 So true. 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:35.839 Um, but like you said, the Bible was written for us, but not to us. 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:42.240 You know, and I think that's I was like, let me make sure I'm not pointing that towards me, but um, but yeah. 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:52.799 And I think like even going off of what you're saying, like so the the danger in a lot of things is that, and it's it's a good kind of danger, but it's a bad danger at the same time, is that we do have so much access to everything. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:29:10.400 We can listen to podcasts, read articles, do all of these things, but there are so many people who are living in the world today, like even like us Christians who would say our revelation of God is not actually from our firsthand experience that we've had, it's off of someone else's experience that we've listened to. 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:16.400 And so we're trying to live off of a secondhand revelation of who God is and expect firsthand results in our life. 00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:16.960 Come on, man. 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:25.839 And that's not gonna happen because Jesus, I mean, literally, like I mean, earlier in John, in John 8, he's talking to people and he says, You will know the truth and the truth will set you free. 00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:26.319 That's right. 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:32.000 That word know there, it's not just like read it, hear it, it's like an intimate knowing. 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:41.119 Yeah, so until you can, even like what Pastor Keith was saying, know God, know Jesus through all these different things in his word, then you will not know the truth. 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:49.119 Yeah, you can just know it, like you can read it one time, you can hear it on a podcast, but until it becomes firsthand revelation for your life. 00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:51.599 I mean, I like to call it like thrift shop theology. 00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:58.000 It's like you're going in and you're just picking off like whatever you want from different people to help frame the theology that you have. 00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:07.119 And what I've seen in my life, and this is something that I had to learn, and I I still walk through this like so much, is that if I hear something, I'm gonna research that. 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:08.319 I'm gonna look it up. 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:12.079 I'm gonna actually find out like what does the Bible actually say about this? 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:14.720 What does Jesus really say about this? 00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:28.079 Because everybody, everybody has their own way of reading the Bible, everybody has their own slants theologically, but I don't want to just live my life off of someone else's second hand off of a secondhand revelation of who God is. 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:33.759 I want to know who he is because if the truth is gonna set me free, I have to really know that, yeah, like intimately. 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:34.240 What's it? 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:40.240 I think the most beautiful thing about this story is God's grace and how Jesus reacts. 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.799 Um, he's not trying to prove anybody wrong. 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.839 Yeah, he's just standing in front of you saying, Here it is. 00:30:45.920 --> 00:31:01.200 Yeah, and and I think I think for us as children of God, we have to realize that when we are seeking truth, God does have grace for us, and he is gonna walk alongside of us if we seek after him because he's standing right in front of us. 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:05.759 So I think that's the most beautiful thing about the story is Jesus knew what was set before him. 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:16.240 You know, he had he had a mission in mind and he had to accomplish it, and he was just uh concerned more so with um you accepting who he is and not what he was trying, not trying to prove you wrong. 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:16.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:18.960