WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.080 Thank you for joining us for After the Message. 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:12.400 To learn more about Celebration Church here in Orlando, you can follow us on social media under the handle at Celebration ORL or visit our website at celebrationorl.org. 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:16.000 Nate D O Double G. 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:16.640 What's up, brother? 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:17.839 How you doing? 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:19.120 I am good. 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:20.000 I am good. 00:00:20.559 --> 00:00:21.199 You know what, man? 00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:25.359 After all these times, every time I see you, a lot of times it's Nate D O double G. 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:30.480 That's because someone had whispered in my ear and told me that you used to rap back in the day. 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:31.839 So I don't know when they told me that. 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:33.920 I'm like, well, yeah, of course I'm going to call him Nate Dog. 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.000 What what was your rap name, Nate? 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:37.119 I need to know. 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.560 We uh we don't talk about that, you know. 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:53.520 You just you just spilled a secret to the people that was supposed to be, you know, it wasn't supposed to come out, but here it is, and what are we gonna do about it now, you know? 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.159 It was kitchen conversation. 00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:56.719 I feel you. 00:00:56.799 --> 00:00:57.359 Okay, my bad. 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.159 No, we can we can strike we can strike that from the record. 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:01.119 It's good. 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:09.920 If we're gonna talk about it though, then we're just gonna have you and I are just gonna have to collab on a mixtape one day and put it out. 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:10.560 Let's go. 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:11.040 Let's go. 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.599 And let's see what let's see, let's get the people what they want. 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:19.040 I don't know what people want it, but we'll put it out there and we'll just see if God graces it. 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:19.599 Amen. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.840 You you've heard it here, church. 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:22.640 You've heard it here. 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:24.719 Nate and I are going to do a mixtape together. 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:25.120 Boom. 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:25.519 That's it. 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:26.560 That's your exclusive. 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:29.280 That's what you get when you when you dial into after the message. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:30.239 You get exclusive updates. 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:31.040 Oh my gosh. 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:38.079 Um, so we're back in quarantine. 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:44.640 Uh kind of something that you know we didn't think we'd be doing, but you kind of touched on it a little bit on Sunday. 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:49.200 Just um just we kind of thought it was the right thing to do, right? 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.319 And and yeah. 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.480 Can you kind of explain the thought process behind that a little bit more? 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:55.599 For sure, man. 00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:12.639 I think it's um, you know, and and as I said in the message, and and far be it from me to kind of like reference myself in the message, that's just seems kind of weird, but like the motivation behind the message is what we're talking about now, and that's the reality of like, okay, yeah, we want to, we want to gather. 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:18.800 And and as you guys know, as a staff, let's we started back in our offices and and working together and all those things. 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:26.719 But then once you start to see like the spike and and the cases hit, and then you begin to kind of sense that man, it's hitting close to home. 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:31.919 My daughter got it, and people on our staff got it, and you just start to see, like, okay, this is a this is a real thing. 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:40.639 And and thankfully, there's no one that was super close to us that have like lost their lives, but you're seeing the the effects that it have and still trying to figure out the long-term impact. 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:48.319 It's really like, man, like, are we really in a position where we're prepared to move forward while it seems as if the virus is still continuing to peak. 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:57.280 So I feel like we just I I felt inside of my heart more than anything, I just didn't want to go at a pace that was quicker than what I felt like God was giving us. 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.879 So I a statement that I often will say is like, you don't want to outpace God. 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:03.759 And I really felt like, okay, like I felt like we had a good plan. 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:06.639 But as I was looking at some things, I'm like, I mean, are we outpacing God? 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:09.520 And and quite honestly, Nate, I can't say yes or no to that. 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:16.159 I just know that I gotta believe that if we pause and slow down just a little bit and take inventory where we are, we lose nothing. 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:25.360 But if we rush to get out there too soon and and there's like ripple effects that could affect people's health, um health, rather, um, that's that's a price that I'm not willing to pay for our church or for our staff. 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:34.000 So I'd much rather slow down, be a little bit more cautious, optimistic, but faithful, um, and then move at a pace that I believe um that I think that God's grace is in. 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:42.000 And here's what I'll also say, man, and then we can move on is that um is that it's it's uh the Bible says that there's a in a multitude of counselors, there is safety. 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.680 So far be it for me to kind of sit on a throne and make all decisions. 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.919 So for me, it's really like, hey, here's what I'm feeling, what is some of our staff feeling? 00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:52.159 Okay, also what are some people in our community feeling? 00:03:52.319 --> 00:04:02.879 Looking and taking into consideration what is the city saying, looking and seeing what my oversight feels about it, and then I'll curate all that, pray about it, and then Megan and I together will say, Hey, I think that this is our best next step. 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:11.039 So um it's not like we're just sitting in the room by ourselves, like, but we're really trying to engage the community as much as possible to hopefully make decisions that's best for everybody. 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:22.240 But um, but yeah, it was hard because God knows I wanted to see our staff again beyond just Zoom calls, and I certainly want to be around our community again, and we will, um, but I just don't think we can outpace God on this. 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.120 Yeah. 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:36.720 Yeah, I think I I mean personally, I think it was the right move, you know, just from my perspective, it just seemed like there was too much uncertainty and and too many, too many variables to kind of move forward, you know. 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:43.279 So I, you know, as much as it as much as it does suck, I it's just probably the right thing to do. 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:46.959 And and like you said, just kind of take take a step back a little bit. 00:04:47.120 --> 00:05:02.879 So you will be proud of me though, because uh when we found out we were kind of going back to quarantine, Jen and I uh were heard from a friend that they did like the the Marvel uh chronological order uh watch. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.800 Nate, don't you, don't you say it? 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:07.040 So we started doing it, man. 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:12.399 And oh yeah, that makes me so happy. 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:13.279 Yeah, bro. 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:19.360 Like I don't there's that's there's these things that when I get passionate about it, I just want everybody to be on the journey with me. 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.199 It it oozes out in my messages. 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.399 So you guys will hear me talking about barbecuing and all that stuff. 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:25.839 There's illustrations coming soon. 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:29.279 We're gonna have like I'm I like my life is whatever I'm passionate about. 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.000 Jesus, barbecue, Marvel. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:33.759 People just gotta get on board. 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:37.199 So hearing you say that, man, it literally fills my heart with joy. 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:40.800 Like, if you would have told me that a family member got saved, I'm excited. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.680 You just told me that you're watching Marvel, it's like right here. 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:45.040 Like, I'm I'm I'm super excited. 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:57.519 So no, it's been it's been fun, and it actually does it does time the story so much better, and you're able to to understand so much better like what's going on and all that stuff. 00:05:57.600 --> 00:05:58.480 So it's been cool. 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:13.120 But um kind of the first the first thing that that I wanted to get some more information on, even for me personally, was we kind of talked about the context a little bit at the beginning of the uncharted message on Sunday. 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:14.639 How did Paul get here? 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:16.079 Like what's going on? 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:17.839 Why is he being shipped away? 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:19.279 And where is he going? 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:19.920 And and all that. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.839 Do you have do you have some more context, historical context on that? 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:26.720 Like, why is Paul in this predicament in the first place? 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:27.920 Absolutely, man. 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:39.199 So uh so when um when Char Pastor Charlie was here and we sat together and did our message um in the same series, we talked about calling and we kind of referenced Paul's calling. 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:48.160 So, you know, Paul had a history of being a very devout follower of Jehovah, or or you know, so that was that was the way of Yahweh. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:52.560 That was that he was a devout follower of that, what we would consider to be um Pharisees at the time. 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.040 So very astute, very well learned. 00:06:55.120 --> 00:07:07.759 And you know, and if you and if you're you know, I don't know the degree of all of our engagement for our audience, but um people will often hear us talk about Paul, and Paul said, and Paul wrote, and and I know early in my faith, I'm like, man, why why is Paul such a big deal? 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:09.519 Like, what why like who's Paul? 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:11.040 Like, I thought we were here for Jesus. 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:23.120 So the reason why Paul is so significant is because once you kind of get into Acts chapter nine and you see that moment where he has this encounter with Jesus, and this passion that he has gets redirected into the kingdom context. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.399 Um, one of the things I'll say, and this is like my little soapbox, and then we'll move on. 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:27.920 I promise I'm gonna answer your question. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:38.720 Um, but a lot of times in when we're reading in the Bible and we see that part about Paul um having his encounter with Jesus, it's often listed in the little headings in our Bibles as Paul's conversion. 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:40.000 Here's what I truly believe. 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:45.600 If you were to have a conversation with Paul, he would not have said that he had a conversion, like a radical change in faith. 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:49.040 He would have, he would have actually defined it more as a fulfillment. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:54.240 Because from his standpoint, I was believing in Yahweh, the creator of the universe. 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:59.279 And so now I have a better revelation that Jesus is Yahweh incarnate in flesh. 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:05.439 So it wasn't so much like he had to change his beliefs theologically, it was just understanding that Jesus was the fulfillment of it. 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:16.399 So he was able to easily leverage what he already knew, take that same passion, and then shift it in a direction that could hopefully enlighten his Pharisee brothers and sisters, but then also reach the world. 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:24.879 So um, so when he has this encounter with Jesus, Jesus makes it clear to him, I'm gonna call, I'm gonna call you to go and take this message um all abroad. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:29.600 But one of the statements that was said is that the many things you're gonna have to suffer for the gospel. 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:33.360 Um, Paul was was was present when the first martyr was killed. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:43.600 Paul even says of himself that he was very approving in the early church when people were being killed, because that was what that was what you did when you were a follower of Yahweh and a false belief came in. 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:48.320 And if it was beginning to encroach on the people of Israel, you you killed them, you stoned them. 00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.840 Like that was not like I know it sounds harsh for us, but that was just part of the culture back then. 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.879 So in his mind, he was doing what he felt he should be doing. 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:55.200 Wow. 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:09.120 When he sh when he shifted directions, and now he was preaching the same Jesus that um that he once was killing people for, understandably, the people that he was once in alignment with as the Pharisees, they were like, What happened to Paul? 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:11.600 I thought he was one of us, but now it looks like he's one of them. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:22.720 So now they were like, Okay, so Paul was very influential, incredibly intelligent, was able to speak Greek, was a Roman citizen, was Jewish, like he had all these things that he curated. 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:28.879 So now he was a significant threat to sustaining the Pharisee belief system. 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:38.240 Um, so the moment that he starts preaching Jesus, like it's a problem because he's getting converts because he's able to speak the language that the um that the Jewish folks would understand. 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:39.519 So we fast forward. 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:41.200 So every time he would speak, people get saved. 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:44.080 So they were trying to find ways to trap him, same way they did with Jesus. 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:50.720 But when he came into any place and he would preach, they would cause major uproars and it would cause borderline riots. 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:57.919 Not riots in the sense that we think about it, but of just people are excited because you got folks who are for it, other folks who are against it, and it will cause some confusion. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:03.840 So they use that as uh basically as a legal case to say that he was a troublemaker and that he was creating riots. 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:04.960 So he gets arrested. 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.120 I believe it's in Acts 21 or 22, but he gets arrested. 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.639 And that's kind of what starts the whole process of the same thing with Jesus. 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:17.759 Okay, now that we've arrested him, let's do our best to see if we can execute him. 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:29.039 But the problem is because Paul was able to speak Greek, because Paul was a Roman citizen, and because he was also Jewish, he was able to appeal to different people depending on who the audience was. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:33.679 So when he was being passed around from one court to another, he was like, Well, I appeal to Caesar. 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.679 Well, they're like, Well, wait a minute, how do you appeal to Caesar? 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:36.799 Well, I'm a Roman citizen. 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:38.799 Oh man, like we didn't know you're a Roman citizen. 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.279 Well, yeah, as a Roman citizen, then you have rights. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:50.879 So Paul was able, this is why when he says all things to all men, that I might win some, he was able to leverage all of his experiences in an effort of reaching people because he could speak their language. 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:59.039 So that's how Paul ends up in a ship, is because he appealed to Caesar because as a Roman citizen, he had a right to plead his case before Caesar. 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:04.799 Um, and so that kind of kicks off the okay, well, let's put him on a boat, and then we kind of jump into our narrative. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:11.200 So I know that's a long explanation, and I couldn't put all that into the message, but that's kind of how we ended up here is that he appealed to Caesar. 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.919 Jesus said that you're going to preach this gospel in Rome, and now here we are on this boat. 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:16.879 Yeah. 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:19.360 Yeah, that's that's good context. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:31.279 And I've been doing a little bit of reading about him on my own, too, uh, with MT Wright, and he kind of explains what you alluded to. 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:41.440 Um how Paul understood the scriptures, you know, like Paul Paul knew the Torah, Paul was well versed in the prophets and and all that literature. 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:48.799 So he for him uh meeting Jesus was like a light bulb in a sense. 00:11:49.039 --> 00:12:05.039 And so he was able to look back at all the things that he already uh that he already knew and then able to uh contextualize it and then you know disperse that information to people like like the Jews, like, no, no, no, this is what you're reading. 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.399 When you're when you're reading this in Isaiah, it's talking about Jesus. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:16.879 So it's actually kind of encouraging to me because I think about man, people that memorize the Torah, they still were confused. 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.480 So when I get confused about scripture, sometimes I can get really frustrated. 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:21.840 Like, why don't I understand this? 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.720 This is, or why isn't it easier to understand? 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:25.840 You know what I mean? 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:38.799 And so it's actually kind of it's a in a weird way, it's comforting because uh it's like, okay, well, there were people that that literally had this stuff memorized and they still needed to have their eyes open. 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:44.480 And I think that kind of points to the Holy Spirit and the power of the gospel in the first place. 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:49.919 Like you have to have God's intervention in order for you to even understand these types of things. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:50.720 You know what I mean? 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:51.519 Oh, for sure. 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.840 I mean, it the Bible talks about how the Holy Spirit is the one who's who's drawing us to Christ. 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.639 And and so it's what you're saying is is dead on, man. 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:03.519 Like I think there's a part where we can intellectually try to engage the scriptures as much as we can. 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:08.080 And I think that discipline is is honoring to God, and I believe that God breathes on it. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:17.120 However, I think the next step is if we are not reliant on the Holy Spirit, we can be endeavoring in an intellectual thing that we can have answers, but we don't have revelation. 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:19.279 And I think unfortunately, that's the part that happened. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:23.279 This is why scripture says that a let the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:32.399 You have like Jesus even says to the Pharisees, like you look, you search the scriptures, believing that they have life, but basically life is right in front of you because that's me. 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:39.519 Like there were people who were so immersed in exclusively reading the scriptures that they were missing what the spirit of God was revealing, which was Jesus. 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:50.320 So um, I I agree that there's this balance that I think Paul beautifully illustrates with being a person who was well versed in scriptures, has this encounter with Jesus, but is also very dependent on the spirit. 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:58.080 So I think he's a prototype of a person who you can have a, I'll just put it out there like this you can have a very checkered, ratchet past. 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:06.080 God is able to redeem it, even use those experiences, and now you're able to take that past, speak a language, speak a context that's helpful for others. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:19.120 So I think practically speaking, for people like you or me, Nate, whether it be um my my hip-hop background or just my my my street background and whatever that looks like, that's a language that I was able to accumulate through the years. 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:28.799 So now when I'm speaking to people who are where I was, I can speak to them the truth, but in a tone and in a way that they understand it, in the same way of the journey that you've been on. 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.080 You're able to present Jesus in a tone in a way that people understand it. 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:37.360 So Paul is a prototype of how do you take your collection of experiences and presence Jesus in it. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:48.480 So that's why I think it's important for us to understand that we're not supposed to separate ourselves from our past so much because God can redeem it if we presence Jesus in it and saying, Hey, I was, but now I am. 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.480 And that's the same way that the way that you are, God can conform conform you as well. 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:54.480 So that's what I think Paul's an encouragement of. 00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:01.360 Like he literally was responsible for people being arrested and killed for following the same person that he just is giving his life to. 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:18.879 You can't imagine how how challenging it is to say, Yeah, I used to actually arrest people who were doing what I'm doing right now, but then also use that same testimony to speak a word that can encourage the people who were still arresting folks and saying, I was doing what you were once were doing, but there's a better way. 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:20.240 Let me show you who Jesus is. 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:26.480 So that gets me fired up because of the grace of God that is able to redeem our past and move us to our future. 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:27.200 Yeah. 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:31.200 Why do you why do you think that there was so much pushback? 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:38.879 Like if it was a better way, you know, and it was literally called the way, like, why was it so much pushback? 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.360 Was it just because this is what we've always known? 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:42.240 It's comfortable. 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.399 I mean, what what why was that? 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:56.639 Man, I think it's um when you when you understand like the narrative, specifically the pushback in the context of Paul, and most of his pushback had nothing to do with like Rome. 00:15:56.799 --> 00:15:58.240 It was it was the religious folks. 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.480 The religious folks were the ones who did the most pushback. 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.919 And I think that there's no irony in that, and and I'll explain why. 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:09.519 So for the religious folks, specifically the Pharisees, like you have like the end of the prophetic era. 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:25.519 So you you have the end of that, and then now you have what we call 400 years of prophetic silence, where the prophet, the one who was basically a conduit speaking the word of God, like they they ultimately went silent for 400 years leading up into um John the Baptist and then Jesus. 00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.559 So now you're having all these different folks that are like, okay, so how do we carry on the legacy of our faith? 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:31.600 How do we preserve it? 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.200 This is how you kind of begin to see, like, okay, so how do synagogues get birth? 00:16:35.360 --> 00:17:04.240 Because when you read the end of the Old Testament, there were no synagogues, there were no Pharisees, there were no Essenes, none of those things even existed, but they were these things that were created by essentially by man to try to preserve different pillars of the Israelite culture, because as wars came in and you had to deal with the Babylonians and their influence, and then the Persians and then the Medes, and then you had to deal with Roman government, like you had to begin to find out who are the people that are going to preserve our spiritual and national identity. 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:11.279 So that created the Pharisees, that created the synagogues because they couldn't go to the temple to worship, like it created these things that were there. 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:18.160 So what you found is that people were loyal to some things that were created that had nothing to do with the original law or the Torah. 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.400 It was more so these creations of pillars that were meant to preserve it. 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:29.759 So you had the Pharisees who were completely at odds with the Sadducees, you had the Essenes who didn't want to have anything to do with the culture at all. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.880 And then you have like um the zealots who wanted to fight against it. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:45.200 And so when you read all these things that take place um in that 400 years of intertestamental, um what they call like the 400 years before the Old Testament, New Testament, so to speak, that 400 years of silence, all those things are birthed. 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:58.240 So now when you have somebody like John the Baptist come on the scene, they have seen over the years, inclusive of the Old Testament, where people have tried to rally and rise up with a new movement that end up being a cult or idolatry. 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:02.559 And we can even read in an Exodus narrative where somebody's coming up with a new idea. 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:05.839 Like that's the basically their version of a golden calf. 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:12.880 So in their minds, they are so literal, they're saying, No, this is how we understand scripture, this is what it means. 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:19.599 So anything that came into the picture that was remotely different, they viewed that as like the golden calf as far as they were concerned. 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:21.039 Let's shut it down, let's kill it. 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.400 The Bible tells that if there's any false gods that we're supposed to deal with it. 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:34.000 And I literally just think that the revelation of who Jesus was was so limited that they felt that they had to push back against it because they didn't want it to overtake their culture. 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:42.319 And it's like, and and this is why I think sometimes the Pharisees get a bad rap, but far be it from me to have a violin for um for that. 00:18:42.400 --> 00:18:43.279 But this is what I mean. 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:48.079 Obviously, you and I, we are firm believers in in Jesus. 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:58.480 We are firm believers in the truth, but we can even say right now, like there are different doctrines and different theological approaches and different belief systems, even within the context of Christianity. 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.799 So I have my beliefs, you have your beliefs, we're part of our church that has our beliefs. 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:12.720 If somebody came in out of left field and said, like, hey man, like, yeah, Jesus is cool, but um technically he really didn't die, like we would probably have a very strong reaction to that. 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:22.720 Now, by all means, we're not gonna kill nobody or anything, different time, different culture, but we are gonna do our best to resist that because that is completely contrary to what we were raised understanding about it. 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.480 That's kind of how they felt about it. 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:31.759 The problem was is that even when Jesus was here and he was revealing and showing them signs according to their scriptures, they refused to see it. 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:35.279 So it was a choice, kind of like when it says Pharaoh hardened his heart. 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.839 There are people who are just refusing to see the truth, and that is the problem that we're seeing. 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:50.960 But as far as like being very religious and doing your best to walk in alignment with what you believe, and then something that comes out of left field kind of hits you, yeah, it takes you off guard. 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:57.920 There have been many seasons, man, where even in my own belief system, that things have got introduced, and I'm like, wait a minute, I've never heard that before. 00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.680 Like, I I gotta research that, man. 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:00.559 I'm not familiar with that. 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:02.559 Like, it's that's how jolting it is. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:16.559 So imagine being a Pharisee who's seen and knows just the story of people wandering in the wilderness for 40 years and all the years of all the stuff and God's judgment and them being carted off into captivity, all the consequences of them falling into idolatry. 00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:19.440 They finally figure out that, okay, I think we got a handle of it. 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.920 And now this dude, Jesus, is coming up and he's saying that he's God. 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:22.960 Man, he's just a man. 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:24.160 I know his dad, I know his mom. 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.119 Like, what is he like? 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.279 They were so literal that they just couldn't get past it. 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:34.799 And I think that's why um, that's why there was so much pushback because they just couldn't get past the natural side and see the spiritual message that God was sending. 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:57.119 Yeah, one of the one of the things that is is frustrating for me personally, and something that I have to constantly fight against, the frustration is the fact of the different denominations, the fact of the different uh worldviews and points of view on the Bible, you know, you would think that we're all reading the same thing, we should all be getting the same thing out of it. 00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:02.160 So for me personally, I just always have to, I kind of always have to look at the good side of it. 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:15.839 Well, if this, if this theologian or if if this denomination uh was able to enlighten us on a certain area of of our theology and our walk with Christ, like, well, amen. 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:16.799 You know what I mean? 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.759 As opposed to, man, why are we why are we so different? 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.559 Why are we not getting along in certain aspects of the wall? 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.440 Does that make sense? 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:24.480 Makes perfect sense. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:25.279 And I think that's the key. 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:31.519 And that's a premature way of processing it is realizing that I think that everybody hopefully is doing the best that they can. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.839 I think that we have more access to information now than we ever have before. 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:45.519 I was raised with a very old school, uh, traditional, flawed theological approach, but I understood where it came from, and that was you never question God. 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:51.200 Um, and so and so what that did was if you were confused about something, you just couldn't ask questions. 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.279 You just had to take it for what it was. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:59.759 But as I began to mature in my faith, I actually realized that questions are they are like the breadcrumbs that lead you to growth. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:24.160 So once I've realized that it's okay to ask questions and to pursue scriptures and to look at what um scholars and theologians and people who understand languages that I'll never understand and how they interpret scripture, I can it's okay to look at that stuff now, and it helps to inform my understanding of what the original author's intent was when they actually wrote a passage that maybe I may be misquoting or taken out of context because I don't have a good handle on it. 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:28.880 So um, but back when I was coming in with spiritually, it was like the Bible's all you need. 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.480 Well, yeah, it's all you need. 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.839 And if we're looking at the actual word need, I believe that 100%. 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:49.440 However, I have learned there are people who have exhaustively studied every aspect of the Bible, the culture and things that I'll never understand that can help me to have better context of the Bible and the tone and the pace in which it was written, that helps me to have a better understanding of it. 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:54.240 So, so for me, I look at other denominations and I say, okay, well, I see how they got there. 00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:59.680 Um, and even if I don't agree with it, for me, it just comes down to let's let's make sure that we just focus on the major things. 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:01.119 Do we believe that Jesus is Lord? 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:06.079 Do we believe in these this idea that Jesus died and um rose from the dead? 00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.839 And and do we believe in the Holy Spirit? 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:14.799 Like I think there's these things that that have to be the majors that there's some agreement on, and the rest of it, I think it's open for interpretation. 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:20.799 Yes, I have strong convictions about a lot of this stuff because I do believe that what you believe determines how you behave. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:28.240 But if we can find common ground on the biggest pillars within our faith, I think there's room for us to have conversations about some of the other things. 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:35.920 Yeah, there's a side of me that doesn't like that because I feel like, well, if God's sovereign, then you know, there is an answer. 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:41.039 But there's also the side of me that's that's thinking, that's a little bit prideful. 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:41.839 You know what I mean? 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:47.119 Like let's let's just have a conversation about it and let's let's have a discussion, let's talk back and forth. 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:54.160 Some things that you bring up, I may, you know, be able to chew on a little bit and actually come out with a better understanding. 00:23:54.319 --> 00:23:59.200 So one thing though that you did touch on was you know the resources for that. 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:10.400 And and one thing that was really cool about this past week's sermon was providing uh the different scriptures for a section of the sermon that you that you were speaking on. 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:25.119 And we actually had it on the video, you know, with different scriptures for someone that maybe doesn't have the background that you have and and the years that you have, like what's a good way for someone to say, hey, I'm dealing with this. 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:27.359 Where do I even begin in the Bible? 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:33.920 You know, like how do I even find scriptures that can that can relate to what I'm to what I'm going through or what I'm thinking? 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:35.599 Man, that's that's good. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:44.160 Um, I'm just gonna I'm gonna rewind time to what was the most helpful for me prior prior to all the technology that we have. 00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:51.359 So I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna put myself out on the limb and say that I'm old enough to remember when there was no Google. 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.079 So like when I got saved, that stuff that wasn't a thing. 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:55.599 There was no quick way to find a scripture. 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.039 So the thing that helped me the most is I actually got a study Bible. 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:07.599 And what that study Bible did, and it's so self-explanatory, it's more than just like, okay, here's the scriptures and verses, but it would have things in the footnotes, explanations leading into it. 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.480 Um, those things radically helped me. 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:20.640 And so what I began to do, and this was just a personal journey, um, and this is not as uh this isn't as sexy as like Google it and find someone who can give you all the answers, but this is what worked for me. 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:22.720 So there probably is a shorter way to get here. 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:28.559 But what worked for me is man, I would have different highlights for different types of passages in my Bible. 00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:34.400 So I would have yellow for encouraging, I would have red if I felt like it was a Jesus redemptive thing. 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.440 It was green if it was something else, it was blue for something else, and I just began to mark my Bible up with all these different um colors. 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:50.240 And and then for most study Bibles, they actually do have a topical thing in the back, like a you can scroll to the back and see a specific topic that you're struggling with. 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.359 But the Bible that helped me the most, and um, I've seen it in the store. 00:25:53.440 --> 00:26:09.680 In fact, when I was on my vacation a couple weeks ago, I went to uh um a Christian bookstore, which you know nowadays with everything being digital and just ordering stuff online, it was just really cool to just walk around and actually look at books and just see things, but um it's called a Thompson chain, a Thompson Chain Bible. 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:18.000 So, what a Thompson Chain Bible is, it's essentially um if you can envision it's a Bible and it's let's say you're reading uh Genesis chapter one. 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.480 In the beginning, um God created the heavens and the earth. 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:28.160 As you're reading that on that line to the margin to the left, it actually is highlighting, okay, maybe it says in the beginning, God created. 00:26:28.400 --> 00:26:32.960 So what you'll see is in to the margin to the left, it'll say the word created and a number next to it. 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:39.839 So you can flip to the back of the Bible and it'll show you everywhere in the Bible that it talks about God creating something. 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:48.480 So what I would do is as I'm reading the Bible, and because the whole idea of Thompson chain, it was like literally showing you that the entire Bible was chained together, it was all linked together. 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.160 So every passage had a number that connected to something else. 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:57.200 And so, bro, I spent years just reading passages and scrolling and flipping over and looking. 00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:00.480 When I would see a reference to another scripture, I would go and look at it. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:16.000 So that's not necessarily the quickest way of doing it, but for a person who's looks at their walk with God as a as a marathon and not a sprint, that's how I believe that you actually can build up um a Rolodex of things that you can refer to that's actually in your soul instead of just things that are in your mind. 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:17.519 So that's kind of some of the things I did. 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.440 Now nowadays we have a lot of resources that makes that a lot easier. 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.200 There's topical things that you can look at on things like the Bible projects. 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:31.039 There's like I have a software program that is that like I could just type whatever I want in and it populates it. 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:33.200 So I use all those resources 100%. 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:38.319 Um, but just a good old-fashioned study Bible, and the one that I loved was a Thompson chain. 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:46.319 That is how I began to really um find passages of scripture, find themes in the scripture, highlight things that I felt were really beneficial for me. 00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.400 And um, that was a game changer for me. 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.519 So I think just finding resources that really work well for you. 00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:56.799 But the cool thing is making sure that whatever resource you have, that that doesn't become the source. 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.599 Like it's like this is a tool that helps you to engage scripture. 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:05.200 So uh more often than not, if I'm reading something, even if I'm reading a book, like as a staff, we're all reading through a book together. 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.759 If I see that a reference is a scripture, I'll stop. 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:09.599 I'll actually go look that scripture up. 00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.079 I'll highlight it if I haven't highlighted it before. 00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:23.440 It's just taking the time to actually engage these things because for me, it's just cutting a mental and spiritual bookmark in my soul of something that I can pull from later on when I need it. 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:25.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:34.079 And you mentioned you mentioned the source, which um kind of brings us to one of the points that that you talked about on Sunday was was changing your source. 00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:54.079 And and I think I think a lot of times and during moments or seasons of uncertainty, we're trying to grab something just to be able to have some sort of foundation, some sort of certainty, you know, and and sometimes we can grab the wrong sources. 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.440 So I think what you said, like that's even when it comes to studying the Bible, be careful. 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:00.400 You know what I mean? 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:14.000 Like make sure that that your source ultimately is the voice of God, even though what you're doing is is right and just in studying God's word, but make sure first and foremost that that you're actually listening to the voice of God. 00:29:14.079 --> 00:29:17.599 And it's not just cognitive, but it's also heartfelt, you know. 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:18.400 Absolutely. 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.240 I think, and that's that's really important, man. 00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:43.359 I think what's important, um, kind of like what you just said, it's it's so important that as we're looking at uh different resources that are available to us, whether it be commentaries and other things like that, yes, I I'll I'll look at commentaries, but I it's really it's really uh a value of mine to kind of get a sense of, and and here's the thing, I realize that I'm pulling from over 20 years of walking with God. 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:49.440 So I'm pulling from um a well that I believe that kind of brings things to the surface when I'm reading scripture. 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:55.279 But what's important for me is making sure that I'm not looking to a resource to be the voice of God for me. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:05.119 I'm I'm I'm typically going to get a sense of what I feel like God is saying, and then I will confirm and then study more through the resource instead of allowing the resource to become the source. 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:09.279 Like that sounds so convoluted, but I'm hoping that people are catching what I'm saying. 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:15.279 Like, I it's important for me to make sure that I'm hearing from God before I begin to listen to what man says about it. 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:24.880 Yeah, and you even one of the quotes you says, be in be informed by what you see, but don't let what you see inform you, or basically form inside of you. 00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.839 You know, that that was even one of the main points of Sunday. 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:36.559 Like, hey, be informed by these things and even good things like studying the Bible, be informed by software and study Bibles and all that stuff. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:45.519 But uh ultimately what needs to form within you is Christ and the love of Christ and renewing of your mind through Christ. 00:30:46.799 --> 00:31:02.640 Um one one thing that I really I thought was great, but I myself even try and understand how to internalize this the best was you said he conquered the things that keep us up at night so we can rest in him. 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.960 Now, uh I get that, you know. 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.039 I I get that, I understand that. 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:16.799 Sometimes it's hard for me to look at maybe my personal situation and internalize that or even live that out. 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:25.519 So, what would you say to like someone, maybe they're facing job loss, maybe they're facing, you know, themselves or family members who are sick or whatnot. 00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:34.079 Like we understand, yes, God Jesus conquered that on the cross, but how does that how does that actually play into my daily life? 00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.920 Like, how do how do I truly hold on to that? 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.119 Yeah, dude, I think um so there's a couple of things. 00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.000 One, um, I'm an Enneagram 5. 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:51.119 So um as I'm learning more and more about what that means, and my daughter and um Pastor Becca have been helping me understand more about myself. 00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:55.279 Um, but as an Enneagram 5, like I'm I'm very I'm very logical. 00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:58.240 So the logical side of it is, and it's not always easy. 00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:01.920 So by all means, like these are one of those things where it's a powerful statement. 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:03.519 It's so it's cool. 00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.119 It you can you can tweet it. 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.440 Putting it into practice is a whole other thing. 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:07.839 Right. 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:13.440 Um, so that I won't, I would never say that there are th there aren't things that I don't process through. 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.000 There aren't things that literally may keep me up at night. 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:19.039 That's not the that's not hopefully the the point that I'm communicating. 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.559 Because yes, I think as human beings, we're gonna have things that we process through. 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:27.839 Um conceptually, what I'm saying is I realize that God is in control. 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.440 And I've resolved that a long time ago when it comes to pretty much everything in my life. 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:36.160 In fact, when it comes to everything in my life, so I have a faith that says I know that God's in control. 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.839 Now, what that doesn't mean is I completely detach and like, man, like okay, the house is on fire. 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:41.279 Man, God's got it, let's go to sleep. 00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:46.880 Like, yeah, like it's it's it's not like this ridiculous, like, okay, I don't engage it, I don't think through it and all that stuff. 00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:53.119 Um, so what I would say, practically speaking, is that it is having a theology that truly believes that that God is in control. 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:54.720 That's a theological construct. 00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:14.240 I think the other thing that we hold on to that kind of gives me peace is that more often than not, now I think that we all are at different seasons and have different challenges, but more often than not, um, at least for myself, it's very rare that I'm dealing with something that's brand new, um, even if it's just in principle. 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:21.359 More often than not, it's something that I've probably walked through, dealt with, or there's some some similarities to it. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:26.480 So often what I'll do is I then begin to look back at how God was faithful then. 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.680 And so it's that's where the it becomes practical for me. 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:40.559 So I've I've shared this story, you know, with our with our church before, but years ago, um, many years ago, in fact, um, I got into a car accident and I wasn't able to work, and so provision was really tight. 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.400 Uh Megan was the only one who was working. 00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:44.559 It was just a tough season, my back was messed up. 00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:51.039 But as I as I think about that in real time, it was a crisis because, like, how are we gonna pay the light bill? 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:53.039 How are we gonna like, how are we gonna survive this? 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.200 It was so, it was so challenging. 00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:57.680 Um, but somehow, some way we got through it. 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.640 Either God would like send people our way that would pay stuff for us. 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.880 It was just ridiculous how each step of the way, God will somehow show up. 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:10.239 Now, when I fast forward to where we are now, and when I consider, well, what does some of this stuff mean? 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.639 And what about selling our house and some of these other things? 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:16.079 Yeah, in and of itself, that's enough to give me some stress and anxiety. 00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.800 But then I'll pause and I'll say, Have I ever dealt with a season where I felt like I needed God to provide for us before? 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.960 Yes, let me revert back to that. 00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:29.440 God ref He did it before then, so I'm confident that God's going to do it again now. 00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:35.679 And that's what gives me peace in knowing that if God did it 20 plus years ago, then it's the same God. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.039 It's a different problem or a different season, different year, but same God. 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.480 So that's kind of what helps me through it. 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:46.880 And if there are things that literally do, like literally keep me up at night, instead of me stressing about it, I pray about it. 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.079 Like that is something that I'll do. 00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:56.000 Like if I just can't sleep, I realize that okay, if I'm not sleeping, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lose, I'm not gonna waste my lack of sleep on stress. 00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.320 I might as well pray about it and get some points for it. 00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:04.159 Like you're if you're you're already up, I might as well pray about it instead of just like, yeah, I'm not gonna sleep, I'm gonna stress, and I didn't pray about it. 00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:06.639 Like at some point, I might as well just at least pray. 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:08.400 So at least God, I'm at least praying. 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:09.039 That counts, right? 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:14.000 Like, yeah, so so that's I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's that's literally how I process through it, man. 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:15.840 No, that's good. 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:28.639