Slopes to the Sideline: Emma Pownall on Concussion, Recovery, and Culture Change

Emma Pownall has sustained three diagnosed concussions. The one that changed everything happened at 18, at a ski racing training camp in Collingwood. Two weeks later, still symptomatic, she got on a plane to Switzerland anyway — and spent the next three weeks on dry land while her teammates trained on snow.

She didn't tell her doctor the truth. She didn't tell her coaches either. That's the athlete brain, and it's something she and Ryan know well.

Now an educator and researcher with PACA, Emma works with students and athletes across the Peterborough community — helping them do what she couldn't at the time: speak up, slow down, and actually understand what's happening to their brain.

In this first episode, Emma and Ryan talk through her story, the fear of re-injury that still follows her, the small wins that mark real recovery, and why changing the culture around reporting matters more than any single intervention.

It's an honest conversation from two people who've lived it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

In the world of sports, concussions are one of the most complex injuries an athlete may face. Not only is the injury hard to recognize, it's invisible. And this can lead to barriers for an athlete's removal from play and management of the injury. Its impact is felt by everyone: the athlete, the student, the parent, teammates, and coaches alike. It's a journey that forces you to step away from the normal rhythm and navigate a path that doesn't always have a clear map. We call this place the Sideline. Because while the game continues for others, this is where the recovery and resilience happens for those who sustain a concussion. I'm your host, Ryan Sutton, and you're listening to the Sideline podcast presented by PACA. We're here to move past the clinical jargon and hold space for the authentic stories of those who have experienced or supported someone through a concussion in sport. Before we begin, I'd like to share a little bit about my personal background and why this topic is so important to me. As a kid who grew up in Ennismore, just outside of Peterborough, I played sports my entire life. It was the biggest thing that I did as a kid, and it's still something that is very true to who I am today. Unfortunately, though, as I played sports, I sustained several concussions. Now, as I'm older, I've had eight concussions to date. But when I was a kid playing sports, I sustained four concussions. My first one came in a biking accident when I was seven. And then I had three concussions while playing hockey in high school. And as I've been through this journey of uh working in the concussion space, I've learned so much about the injury and how it can impact people. I've talked to hundreds, if not thousands, of people about their experiences and everything that I've learned. It's just been that there needs to be more work done in this space to help people going through it. And that's why I feel so grateful and fortunate to be in a position to highlight stories across our community and across Canada related to the topic of concussions in sport, because it is something so important to me. And I know it has the potential to impact so many athletes who may be going through similar things to what I went through. And this is why I thought it would be perfect to have Emma Palnell as her first podcast guest. As Emma is someone I've been working with for the past seven years, and she runs our PACA education program. As I like to say, she's the boots on the ground with PACA. She's the one in the community interacting with people, educating students, educating athletes. And she's the perfect first podcast guest for us because she is doing all of this work in the community already. And it's a chance for everybody to learn more about her story and the passion behind her work. Emma, thank you for joining us on the sideline today. We're so happy to have you.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Thank you for having me today, Ryan. I'm really excited to be here and to be a part of the PACA team.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, well, of course, we love having you. And uh I I really appreciate all the work that you do across the community, and it's always a pleasure working with you uh to expand our programming with PACA. But I think something that's really unique to us and something I want to talk about today, um, and that will be a theme of this podcast moving forward, is just about your concussion story. I know I just shared a little bit about my concussion story in the introduction. Um, but you and I, we've obviously connected several years back now, and you told me a lot about your injury, but um, would love to hear a little bit more about that and share your experiences and and how you've uh dealt with your concussions.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, of course. So I've sustained three diagnosed concussions. However, I've also hit my head many times in the past uh with the education that I have now. I'm fairly confident that it there has been more than just three concussions that have occurred. One particular experience that I think is extremely relevant to our topic of sports-related concussions today happened when I was 18 years old. At that time, I was ski racing competitively, and we were at a training camp in Collingwood. I uh sustained the concussion there, was sent home early, and then just really struggled with the idea of missing the next training camp. And our next training camp was actually to be in Switzerland, and that was two weeks out. At that time, I told my doctor I was feeling okay. I told my coaches and my parents that I was good to go, all while still experiencing the symptoms of concussion with the expectation that by the time I got to Switzerland I would be okay and good to go for on snow. I think a common situation for a a lot of young athletes is to, you know, continue pushing through those setbacks. And that's what I did there. Uh so I flew to Switzerland and unfortunately I spent the next three weeks that were to be training on snow actually on dry land. I was um succumbed to exacerbated symptoms from uh the change in air pressure and flight. And unfortunately at that time, I was unable to even go on the snow because of the symptoms I was experiencing day to day. I spent the three weeks that I was there uh working with the physio on the team in order to be fit to return home to fly. And at that point, I don't think I had really taken head injuries seriously. This was definitely the third diagnosed concussion. And I was just trying to continue to play. What happened after that was I came home and I decided it was time to retire from sport because I couldn't do it again, another three weeks, potentially somewhere else, of the symptoms of the pressure. And and at that point I decided it was time to take a stand and try and make change too, especially in Peterau, um, similar to you with the concussion community.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Yeah, that's uh yeah, that's with the flights and everything, that's just a crazy story. I am curious to know more about like some of the challenges or like what that mentality was that led you to even be like, I I gotta, I gotta get to Switzerland, I gotta do this, and and some of the challenges that you face while you're going through that.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah. Well, I think at that time it's a it's a competitive mentality. I was uh an individual ski racer. I started when competing when I was seven years old and continued to go up the ladder. At that point, it was a drive to compete, I must say too, a little bit of FOMO, a fear of missing out, of being with my teammates, and fear of setbacks, right? You know, and not wanting to look weak to my coaches, especially with those setbacks, right? Any time on snow matters. And that was the perspective that I had at the time without taking consideration of, you know, the long-term side effects of brain injuries, even something that is a minor brain injury, like the concussion I had sustained. I didn't know at the time either that the flights were going to be what really messed up my drive to compete. And even when I flew home too, I was kind of back in that boat of delayed recovery and struggling to get back to daily function again. And it was really just the athlete brain.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

Yeah. No, it's uh it seems like it, right? Like, and that's not uncommon with me in in my concussions as well. Even after sustaining as many as I have, it's still always a challenge to be like, no, no, like I can definitely uh I can do more than what I think I can, probably. And so I definitely get that challenge. So how have you like adapted your life since and uh especially when it comes to sport? You mentioned you you stopped playing competitive sport or you stopped doing competitive sport. Um, how is how is your relationship with sport changed?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah, um, so from my own personal perspective of sport, I would say I take fewer risks now, especially if I'm back on the slopes. I'm much more aware of my head. And my training very much has shifted away from that competitive play to more a recreational participation. I think of it as a way of being healthy for life and enjoying the things I do. But I I would be lying if I if I didn't mention that that fear of re-injury doesn't haunt me because it does. The smallest bump to the head in a game of soccer, being jostled around, that kind of stuff, or even just fooling around now day to day, a small bump like that gives me a lot of anxiety, more so because of the awareness around the recovery and the long-term aspects of possible deficits. And even at that point, too, being in a position where I've done a lot of research, I also am much more aware of the possible long-term side effects too. And so I would say I sh I really struggle now day to day with anxiety surrounding um fear of re-injury.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Absolutely. I I also deal with that too, and and my relationship with sport has definitely changed. And it's a lot to do with what you're talking about, the fear of re-injury, the fear of the unknowns there, and I I totally can resonate with that, that's for sure. So uh my next question is like it's one thing to have these experiences, but what actually made you want to educate on this topic and and what led you to, I guess, this path where you and I are working together, you're educating uh like hundreds of students each year on the topic of concussion. What led to that for you?

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I would say it wasn't actually my own experience. It stemmed from uh close friends in high school who had sustained concussions as well. At that time, this we're talking about 10 years ago, the recommendation was to sit in a dark room. Now we know that that is no longer the recommendation, and early return to activities seems to be beneficial for athletes. However, that was the recommendation at the time. So I saw a lot of close friends be isolated to their rooms for weeks, come back still complaining of issues, still having similar anxieties as well. And when I retired from ski racing and started that path uh in kinesiology at Trent, I really wanted to get into that aspect of an inclusive recovery where, you know, there wasn't a lot of pressure and where we also felt felt comfortable to speak up. I think I knew from my friends' experiences, but also my own experiences, that at that time we were lacking resources in the area or even access to those resources because there was research going on 10 years ago. Um, however, I think we were just limited to how much we had access to. And that's when I really made the decision that the concussion world was somewhere I wanted to work because I didn't want any other young athlete have having to navigate it on their own with little guidance, but also then potentially experiencing similar things that I saw my friends' experience, or also experiencing what I experienced myself. And that's when I really made that decision to put forth change in the community of Peterborough and through education at Trent was able to really jump into that further, was able to be involved with you at heads up to some capacity, um, through research, was able to jump more on board with PACA. And here we are today and doing exactly, I think, what we both essentially set out to do.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, no, it it's been quite the journey, and it's uh from my end, it's been amazing to see where you've gotten to and the passion that you bring to the space as well. Um, I yeah, it's amazing. And every time that I'm talking with anybody who's been educated by you in the community or interacts with you on around this topic, it's always uh very positive. Very, very positive, that's for sure. So I definitely appreciate all the work that you do, and I know a lot of people in the community do as well. So that's gonna conclude our first segment. Our next segment is gonna be what we call the small wins log. Um, so essentially, with this recovery is so many things, but ultimately what people are usually measuring it by is like how soon they can get back to sport. But within that, there's so many small little wins that you have along the way to get you to that point. So I'm just curious if you have any that really stuck out to you with your recovery journey. And yeah, if you could share a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

Yeah. It's been a while, so I really have to like think about this one. I think for me, the the big, big but small wins um was when I was able to go a day, maybe two days without symptom flare-ups. Because of the way concussion recovery works, we know it is rarely straightforward, if ever. And we are going to have those bumps in the road. But when I could go one full day without a concussion symptom flare-up, I knew that at that end of the day, and I go, hey, oh, I actually didn't experience any symptoms today. And yeah, okay, maybe the next day I did have, you know, a bit of a headache. The day before going 24 hours without a headache was positive to me. And then maybe two days later noticing, oh, I've gone almost 48 hours without any symptom flare-up. So just noticing like those progress, or I guess the progress in recovery were really the small wins for me because it's hard when you're in the thick of it. It's hard to be able to see through the symptoms when you feel like you're taking one step forward and two steps back sometimes. But when you can go a day without having those symptoms and feeling somewhat normal again, it is a really nice feeling. And you're just getting back on track to that.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Yeah, no, for sure. And I think what another thing too that I would love to hear from you about is is how do you like because your own experience, but then you're also so knowledgeable about the topic as well. So when you're educating people on this, especially students and and uh athletes, how are you teaching them about the idea of these small wins and and also a little bit about the individualized recovery? Because that's a part of it too, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:38

So first I'll talk about individualized recovery. Um, something that a lot of people aren't aware of is that when you sustain one concussion, you may experience headaches, maybe nausea, maybe a little bit of dizziness. And recovery may seem like it is going well. Maybe you return in that normal return to play time frame, which is about that four weeks point. But if you sustain a second concussion, your symptoms are not always going to be exactly like your first one. With your second concussion, maybe it looks slightly different. Maybe it's sensitivity to light, sensitivity to noise, um, maybe issues with having elevated heart rate. And what we also know is that with each concussion, recovery can be more difficult to get through. And you also mentioned that for yourself as well. So taking that individualized approach is extremely important because we know that not each athlete, not each student is the same. We also know when it comes to recovery, we all are going to respond differently to different situations and finding what works best for the individual we're working with is what we need to identify first, because that's how we can then track those small wins. Something in my experience that has been really beneficial from the standpoint of an educator or working alongside individuals who have sustained concussions. It's not something that I practiced when I went through my recovery, but journaling, especially when it comes to symptomology or tracking where we're at when it comes to physical activity participation or going back to school as well. And just making note of, you know, what were my symptoms like today? And then comparing that to what were they two weeks ago, maybe? And same with physical activity participation. Okay. I could I could cycle on the bike for 20 minutes today, but two weeks ago, I wasn't able to cycle at all. And so having it written down and being able to really visualize it helps us to stay motivated and to continue going through because, like we mentioned earlier, it recovery is rarely a straight line and we can go one step forward, two steps back. And when it feels like we're doing that, going back to two weeks ago is so nice to see for a lot of the individuals that I've worked alongside.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, and I've someone who's definitely benefited from journaling as well, especially when I was going through my concussions. That was something that it started off as a gratitude journal just to help myself like build those small wins in a way, um, or look on the the brighter side, if you will. And it's something that I still do to this day that I know it helps me process things, it helps me see things in a different light, and it just also gets things off my mind that allows for me to uh to kind of move more clearly throughout my day and weeks and and whatnot. So uh I definitely am a big advocate for that, and and I think it is also really helpful for people who are looking to stack small wins uh in their recovery for sure. So that's the end of our that segment, and I I really like that one. We're trying all these new segments on the first episode of the podcast here. Our next segment uh is actually called the unsung hero. So in many people's concussion recoveries, they will have a support system. They'll have people, well, hopefully they do, anyways. They'll have people who are in their corner, who make their lives ear easier. And I think for this one, all we're asking them is just give a shout out to someone who uh who made your recovery better and who you think maybe is a little bit of an unsung hero in your own life.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah. Um, so my un unsung hero would be Erin Smith. She was the physio on the team who helped me through recovery for those three weeks in Switzerland.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

Awesome. And was there anything that she did that really stood out to you that kind of led to uh her having such an impact?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

I think Erin fostered a lot of patience. And I think that's something that is really important for athletes as well, especially when they're in that competitive mindset. They want to get back to being in that competitive environment as soon as possible. And she did an amazing job at just encouraging me to stop, you know, smell the roses for a little bit, and you know, really taught me how to listen to my body as well, which is something that I have continued to practice since being in Switzerland. And I would say it's something that I wasn't really in tune with prior to that trip either. So recognizing, you know, where are the symptoms coming from and how is it affecting me and being able to really find, you know, what could potentially work. You know, is it a lack of hydration? Is it sleep that I need and listening to those cues for my body as well has have been helpful from a recovery standpoint, but even just as a human being as well, now functioning.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah. And well, first of all, shout out Aaron, uh our unsung hero here on our our first podcast. But I do think that's that's so important, right? And I think for me in my recoveries and and just as I've gone through life since my concussions, uh, I think the idea of like emotional well-being or just being connected with yourself in the way that you're talking about is is so important. And I think it's something that I definitely learned throughout my recoveries, just like being more in tune with myself and what I need. And it is something that I don't know if I would have developed as as fast as I did uh had I not gone through so many of those injuries, but I am glad that that is a silver lining. Um, that and it's also something that you can carry through the rest of your life, as you mentioned. So I uh I wholeheartedly uh understand what that's all about, and I I think that's a really amazing thing that uh she was able to help you with. All right, so this is our last segment here. It's called Lessons from the Sideline. So this This one is more, especially because you're a researcher, you're an educator. We're going to dive a little bit into your own experience, but also some of the things that you've learned along the way. So seeing as concussions are so complex and you've worked at it through like the social and the psychological lenses, talk to us how this type of complexity can show up on the sidelines and other aspects of the life and also in your own experiences as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah. Um, okay, so from a psychological and social perspective, the first thing that comes to mind is isolation. When athletes are removed from play, not only are we removing them from the sport that they have potentially identified with and is an inherent part of their personality, but we're also removing them from their outlet for physical activity and also usually their support system because some of our best friends are our teammates as well. And so when we remove an athlete from play because of a concussion, they can sustain a lot of poor like mental health or issues with isolation because of it. And so the first thing that we see right with individuals who have sustained a concussion is also, you know, suck it up or you're fine, push through it, jump back in. And when we then remove that same athlete who may have been pushed to, you know, play through or get over it, they may also feel a little guilty towards, you know, how does this make me look on top of the other amounts of things that they're dealing with? So psychologically, it's a large load for these athletes. And especially athletes who can maybe not make sense of where all these emotions are coming from, on top of dealing with headaches and other concussion symptoms as well. And I would say that I was fortunate that I had a team that was very inclusive during my recovery process. However, I also know lots of athletes who who have been isolated. And sometimes that can be discouraging for even returning to play as well. So being that person of being the teammate on the sideline and keeping them included to a capacity that is comfortable for that athlete is so important. It keeps us all psychologically well from that perspective of mental health to when we can support each other and see that kind of light at the end of the tunnel for the teammate helping the injured athlete. And then it can be returned back to.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, and I can personally resonate with a lot of what you just said there because uh not only have I experienced all of that, what you just talked about personally, but I also researched that in my master's thesis as well, about like how those different factors can influence the behaviors of athletes in their recovery and and how it does weigh on them psychologically as well. And a lot of that can be tied to their like their identity as an athlete, right? We're taught at a very young age what an athlete, what it means to be an athlete, and that means like pushing through pain, it means working really hard and kind of making these progressions in a linear fashion. And with a concussion, it's like the complete opposite of that, right? It's a total um like the total like opposite of what we're taught as an athlete, and so it can be really hard. And then the social component, which you touched upon, um, that can be really difficult as well, because all you want at the end of the day is to be back playing your sport like nothing happened, and your teammates maybe don't see that as easily. I think nowadays, though, uh, it really has changed. I think people are a lot more accommodating and a lot more understanding, and that has to do with a lot of the education that uh that has come, right? So yeah, I guess the last question I would have in this segment for you is just like, are there any general lessons from the sideline, if you will, like if you have anything that you like to share with while you're educating, some like key takeaways or key messaging that uh you love to always get across?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Mm-hmm. I mean, a lot of this is really embedded in the PACA sports values program. And I think it has just it just makes sense, right? Uh, support, inclusion, communication, some of our biggest pillars when it comes to that aspect of what where do we want to educate the future youth or our current youth coaches and parents on education when it comes to concussion and awareness around surrounding the injury. And communication is is our friend, right? And whether that is picking someone that is your best friend to communicate that with, I know I've relied on that before where, hey, I'm not feeling the best today. I think I may have hit my head. Can you help me? And then ensuring that we've in we've really equipped that teammate with the proper education of what does help look like? You know, is it taking that athlete to then a coach or a parent and helping to further communicate the potential of an injury or, you know, what's going on with that athlete? Because right then and there we are showing support, we're showing communication, and then through that process, keeping that athlete, like we mentioned earlier, included because ultimately it'll encourage them to return to play in a better mindset and uh foster a more positive experience, right? It all comes down to changing the culture surrounding reporting and return to play. And I think we've done a great job at that, and we still have um future steps to make, but ensuring that the culture of the reporting is is inclusive, is positive, and athletes feel comfortable to do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah, it's so important when you're able to tell somebody and you know that they're gonna have your back. And I think that's such an important like pillar of building a culture within sport. Um and yeah, it's it's it's something that we we talk about, it's something that we educate on, as you mentioned with the sport values program here with PACA, and uh it's something that we're gonna continue to do as we continue to educate people in the community, especially students and athletes on the topic of concussion. Um, Emma, I uh really appreciate you uh coming on as our first guest here and uh all the work that you do in the community. It's been an absolute pleasure and uh look forward to continuing to work together as we uh look to make Peterborough sport a better place.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

That brings us to the end of today's conversation. I want to thank Emma Pownell for her honesty and for providing a window into what this journey actually feels like. Whether you are an athlete navigating recovery, a parent or a coach providing support, or a professional helping to lead the way, thank you for being a part of this conversation. If today's conversation with Emma really hit home, we're taking it one step further next month on June 10th. Join us for the PACA Concussion Masterclass webinar series where we'll move from the story to the science. Next month's webinar topic is the Parents Concussion Playbook, hosted by Dr. Steph Delaire, a local concussion rehabilitation expert, medical doctor for the Peterbro Pete's, and a family physician with the Peterborough Family Health Team. Join us for a deep dive into the how and why of recovery. You can register for the webinar for free right now on our website at packa.health. To make sure you don't miss any of these stories of recovery and resilience, please follow the Sideline Podcast with Ryan Sutton on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We're here every other month to dive deeper into the lived experience of concussions and sport. I'm your host, Ryan Sutton, and thank you for joining me on the sideline.