E21 - Neurogenic Tremoring As a Catalyst for Meditation, Qigong & Nondual Practice with Jared Dahmer

Most people come to tremoring looking for relief. Jared came looking for depth. By the time he found Tension and Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE®), he'd spent nearly a decade inside ancient yoga, Daoist Qigong, and nondual meditation — and what he wasn't expecting was that a single video, found mid-session on the floor of his own room, would finally let all of it land in his body.

In this episode, Alex sits down with Jared to trace that arc: years of self-study in Qigong and Kriya; the night he searched "how to release trauma" and stumbled onto TRE; and the first three months when, in his words, "everything became felt in my body." Along the way they get into pausing inside a session, the integration that happens lying still afterward, lowering your baseline beneath the polyvagal curve, and the paradox at the heart of his path — nondual teachers say let go of the body, while tremoring keeps inviting him further in.

Jared is also leading a guest workshop for the Neurogenic Integration community on Thursday, October 22, 2026 — a chance to experience what brings tremoring alive for him, firsthand.

Jared Dahmer is a TRE® provider certified through Red Beard's TRE certification pathway, based in Louisiana, USA. Before TRE, he spent six to seven years in deep self-study of Daoist Qigong — in the lineage of Jonathan White, Michael Winn, and Mantak Chia — alongside ancient yoga, Kriya, and nondual meditation. He teaches both TRE and Qigong and offers one-on-one sessions, exploring tremoring not only as a way to release stress and trauma, but as a catalyst for embodiment and awakening.

⏱ KEY HIGHLIGHTS

0:00   Welcome & introductions

2:00   Starting Qigong in 2020: the search for deeper connection

4:00   An experience at twenty that changed everything

6:00   What is Qigong? "The art of subtle breath"

8:00   Kriya, Kundalini & feeling "turned on by life from within"

10:00  Defining "deep": the body as temple

15:00  Searching "how to release trauma" — and finding TRE

16:00  "Tickled from within": laughter, tears, and arriving at safety

17:00  The morning after: long-term TRE and getting hooked

20:00  The first three months: "everything became felt in my body"

22:00  "I feel myself": dropping the character

25:00  Pausing inside a session: the weightlifting analogy

27:00  Integration: how lying still teaches the body to meditate

29:00  Beneath the polyvagal curve: lowering your baseline

36:00  Teaching others: intimacy, relationships & feeling safe

40:00  "Medicine for the nervous system"

44:00  Where tremoring meets nondual meditation

50:00  Closing reflections: "I just want the world to feel safer"

🔗 RESOURCES & LINKS

Connect with Jared Dahmer — TRE® provider & Qigong teacher, Louisiana, USA, currently offering one-on-one sessions. Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jaredjoyyy

Also mentioned: David Berceli (creator of TRE®), Jonathan White, Michael Winn, Mantak Chia, Mika Devos, Tree Wiseblood, Christina Guillaume, Ramana Maharshi, and the book The Direct Means to Eternal Bliss. (Full links in the internal notes below.)

Continue your journey with Neurogenic Integration 

🔗 Join our live weekly classes → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#classes 

🎓 Explore our Online TRE® Certification → https://neurogenic-integration.com/webshop/#cert

📍 FIND US ONLINE

Neurogenic Integration: https://neurogenic-integration.com/  Instagram: @neurogenicintegration

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome back to the Neurogenic Integration Podcast, where we explore the incredible potential of neurogenic tremoring beyond the basics. I'm Alex Green.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

And I am Cebus from Shield. Together, we'll be diving into how this natural innate process can be seen and applied across different professions, healing modalities, and in scientific research.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Whether you're a practitioner, a coach, a therapist, a body worker, or a researcher, this podcast is for you.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Join us as we uncover the science, share experiences, and explore how neurogenic integration is revolutionizing the way we approach stress, trauma, and well-being.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

So take a breath, get comfortable, and let's dive in. All right. Awesome. Welcome everybody to the Neurogenic Integration Podcast. I'm sitting down today with Jared Joy, and currently based in um uh Louisiana, in the in the deep south, in the United States. Uh, but he's sometimes all over the place. We'll talk, we'll talk a little bit about that. Um Jared is a TRE provider. He went through uh the Redbeard TRE certification program uh somewhat recently, and so I got to know him uh first as a student, um, but then have stayed in touch with him as he's been uh off and running as a TRE provider. And uh and I'll just share to the audience here what's always um uh intrigued me about Jared is is he came to TRE for, you know, everybody who comes to neurogenic tremoring comes from their their own path and for their own reasons. But Jared sort of came in with a very interesting background doing a lot of uh qigong and Taoist practices and meditation work, and uh and has had part of what we want to talk about today is how has his neurogenic tremoring practice uh informed, related, enhanced, expanded his explorations in the meditation world through non-dual meditation, Taoist practices, things like that. Um what I uh what I laughed about when I first met you, Jared, was um that you like you're not the only one, but and I I had this phase back in my early days of tremoring as well, but you did some serious deep dives um of some very uh very extended um long practices, um but you also paid a lot of attention to sort of how your nervous system was receiving that, what the effects were. So um my hope today is just to have a wide-ranging conversation about kind of your personal journey with tremoring, um, how and and how it's evolving as you've spent more time with it, and now you're of course sharing it with others. So um, Jared, thanks so much for taking time to sit down for a conversation.

SPEAKER_03 3:04

Thank you so much, Alex. Really appreciate the introduction. Yeah, so I have been doing qi gong, let's say it's 20 2026, so I've started Qigong in early 2020, and it it was a journey to get deeper. And I was in a partnership with a woman, so I wanted to be able to have a deeper connection with her uh in intimacy. So I started doing that, learning how to um have better sexual connection, have better heart connection, have better connection in my spirit uh with the woman that I was with. And eventually I got into Qigong even deeper because I was like, how much deeper can I go? And so I went to study with my uh my teacher's teacher. So my teacher in the beginning was Jonathan White, so he has a YouTube channel called Sexual Kung Fu, really beautiful channel, and his teacher is Michael Wen. So Michael Wen is he's been doing Qi Gong since late mid to late 70s teaching, and he started with Montak Chia, and Montauk Chia is one of the original, like uh the guys who kind of blasted Qigong into the Western world for all of us to understand. So it's been really beautiful. So I started this path with Qigong. Um 34 right now. So when I was 20, I I had a really profound LFC trip. I wasn't trying to have a very intense LFC trip, but it was really intense. And I was playing baseball with my buddies that summer, and uh I had only tried cannabis before that, right? So my friends were like, hey, let's try this LSD thing, right? So I was listening to Alan Watts, listening to all the all the things about Buddhism and stuff, and I was like, oh cool, let's let's try it out. And what it did for me was kind of just blast open my whole consciousness, it just blast open who I was, and and I was like, this is so intense, right? So the the whole eight hours of my trip was just I was getting blasted by just images and just certain things in my past, memories, all kinds of stuff coming up to the surface, right? So that was my first real introduction to uh spirituality, and I it was a week after this trip that I went on YouTube. This was 2012, right? So I went on YouTube and I listened to a guided meditation. Um, it was like a 10-15-minute meditation. And after I finished that meditation, life looked completely different. It was like I had an awakening. So my journey started in 2012, summer of 2012, and it's it's been a wild journey ever since I started studying ancient yoga. So I had this really thick book called Yoga and Kriya. Um, I've seen that.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

And it's it's it's like hang on, hang on a second. So let me pause you once in a while just for definitions. So, you know, qigong, you know, so we'll we'll come back to qigong, I assume. But just for any any listeners who I mean, you know, I think a lot of people know Tai Chi, Qigong, but just just in case somebody's not familiar, like like uh what's the translation of Qigong? Like what would just be like a one-sentence description of, you know, and you're mentioning Montak Chia, which I totally agree, he's the person who really put this on the put this on the map in the Western consciousness, but give it give just a short version of Qigong just so so listeners know what what that practice is about. Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

So the Qi Gong is basic definition, it's the um it's the art of subtly moving your breath through your body. So see, it's an art of subtle breath, the skill of being able to move your breath. But how I describe qigong is it's a way to enhance your life force, it's a way to feel super alive in your body and connected to your spirit, which lives in your body. So for me, it's it's not religious, it's it's it's non-denominational. And if you are religious, it can really connect you to whatever you're practicing, whatever you're following. And it's a really beautiful practice to basically just enhance your life force, which gives you physical health, emotional health, spiritual health. So that's kind of my definition of qigong.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Great, thank you. Perfect. Okay, so now you got this big book, Yoga and Korea. You're gonna have to tell us what Kriya is. I know what it is. Sure. We'll have yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

So it's it's like a 1200-page book, it's orange, and yoga and Kriya is essentially taking you through every aspect of yoga that existed since yoga existed. So the yoga we see in studios today is is a very small uh portion of of the amount of yoga that actually exists in the world, right? So you start with asanas, right, which is what you see in yoga studios today. And then you go into pranayama, uh, you go into dharana, which is like focused concentration, and then pranayama's breath.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

So yeah, pranayas. Pranayama's breath, pranayama's breath, and then dhyana, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:50

And and it's so you have dharana first, you have it's like uh very focused concentration. Um you can also use like the mala beads to go through different mantras, which is like things you would say to yourself to focus on each bead, right? Yep, to keep you into a very deep state of focus, and then you have dhyana, which essentially is meditation.

SPEAKER_01 8:08

Right. Um and by the way, just because I have a Zen background, Zen Buddhist connection, dhyana is the Zen is the if I understand correctly, is the translation. The Sanskrit dhyana translates to Zen. Beautiful. Chan in Chinese and then Zen in Japanese. Yeah. Cool. That's awesome. Okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

Yeah, so you have dhyana, and then uh interlaced in this tradition, you have kriya, right? So not all yoga had kriya, but kriya is a pretty, pretty significant part of it. So the kriya is essentially being able to open up your spine, your nervous system, to be able to receive more powerful energy through your body so you feel more alive, right? So many traditions would call this energy the kundalini. Um, some traditions would call it the shakti. And all it is, this kundalini, the shakti, is a very powerful energy that is at the base of your spine that permeates through your whole body. Permeates through your whole body, and you feel extremely alive. You feel turned on by life from within, right? So I feel like we can jump into so many different categories here because this is such a hot topic. Um, but this is what I got into in my early 20s, right? Okay, okay, and TRE actually plays a significant part of all the stuff I'm talking to you about right now, but we'll get into that in the state. We'll get to that.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

We won't forget. We'll get to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah. Yeah. So this is what I did in my early 20s, right? This is what I was really into. Uh, I was studying this for about like six, seven years. I go in as deep as I can into it. I didn't have a teacher, I had a book, and that's what I followed. And I, you know, I'm I'm pretty good with books. So I like to read books and I like to follow things, and it was amazing. So let's fast forward, right? Okay. So I was, I was, then I was living in a city called Mount Shasta, California, and really beautiful city, amazing people, like people with different ways of thinking, right? So you have people who love spirituality, and you have people that love hiking, you know, because it has a really beautiful hiking scenery, right? So I was there with a woman and I was living with her, and and through this whole process, I was going deeper into my yoga at this time. And there was a set of circumstances where um, you know, sometimes you just go through life and certain things just aren't working for you. So, like my yoga was not giving me the the amazing feelings, that connection to my life that that I was really wanting. So I uh I dropped into Qigong during that time, and it was with my buddy, his name is Jonathan White. He's got the uh YouTube channel Sexual Kung Fu. Um so I dropped into that, bought his course, and I started following his whole course, and it got it really helped me get really deeper into my intimacy with myself, with my partner. So uh during this time, I I started going deeper into that, and then I was like, how much deeper can I go? So I had gone super deep with Yoga and Korea, this book, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Well, wait, so just pause for a moment just to define define deep a little bit. So I you know it sounds like you're you're the kind of person who you know once when you find something, you're you're kind of a you're a diligent practicer, you know, you're kind of the you're that kind of personality. And so so and and and and you had gone a certain depth as you're and then you're sort of looking for more, but uh well when you say, okay, uh, how much deeper can I go? I mean, what how do you how do you define that for yourself?

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Okay, so for me, depth would be how much deeper can I go into my body, right? Because my my spirit lives in my body, and the spirit is all around us, right? So I've always had this feeling, you know, there's a very profound teaching, it's the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God is within you. So for me, like my body is my temple that I go into and and I release tensions, I release dramas, I connect to deep emotions, and it starts to help me open up to my spirit, my liveness, my breath, my life force, uh, my chi, prana, all these different aims for energy, right? So sure, that's what I mean, right? It's I wanted to go deeper into myself, and so yoga was not it, it wasn't taking me there anymore. Okay, and at the same time it wasn't taking me there, qigong, boom, just popped. I think it was, I think it was an ad I saw, right? And it's really funny because now Jonathan's my friend, right? So it was an ad that I saw, and uh and I took his course and it was amazing, right? It was teaching me how to go deeper into the earth through my feeds, such as I grounding, uh learning these very esoteric practices that are very applicable to my life. And it was helping me to open up my my body in brand new ways, right? So I take his course and then I studied with his teacher, Michael Wynn, who before had studied with Montauk Chia for and he helped write Montauk Chia's first few books as well. Okay, um, because Montak was having a hard time understanding English at that time in the late 70s, early 80s, right? So I studied with Michael for many years, and I still do study with him. And I started to also study with uh Meka De Vos, who is a she she's like a German Dutch teacher who lives in Canada, Vancouver. Um so her stuff is more feminine, right? So more feminine qigong, but she has her qigong applies to everybody. It's really amazing, right? So started studying all these different things, amazing things, and it was amazing, it was great, it was beautiful. And uh a few years later, I came upon TRE, right? So here's my TRE path. This is before I met you, right? So my TRE journey has been amazing, right? So uh a few years ago I had I'd gone through like a significant breakup in my life and it was pretty intense. And I a few years before that, I had been doing solo psychedelic sessions with myself, um, starting with small microdoses, nothing, nothing very intense, and then gradually taking steps to taking big doses, always keeping it very safe, right? And uh I had taken like you know, just one full hit of LSD at that time, and I laid down, I had some music on, had some incense, very safe environment for me. And I had I had a bunch of affirmations on my wall, like you are safe, just breathe, you know, it's it's just breathe, give through this experience. So I had created parameters of safety in my room as I'm undergoing the ceremony with myself, because you know there's nobody to really undergo these ceremonies with, uh especially in the world today, right? So um towards the end of this uh session, psychedelic session, I wouldn't say it was a bad trip, but it was extremely uncomfortable, right, emotionally. I had just gone through that breakup, it was very uncomfortable. I was like, God, there's like so many intense emotions coming up, and and I was using all of my practices like the inner smile, being able to smile to my emotions, you know, the six healing sounds, all these qigong practices to to be able to start releasing emotions, right? Um doing different breath work to to connect and and actually feel and help the emotion come out, but nothing was really uh grinding the gears here. So I was I was like, what do I do? So I opened up Google on my phone. This is this is towards the end of my session. I opened up Google and I I keyword searched how to release trauma, right? And uh it just came up a video on TRE. It's called Trauma Releasing Exercises. Have never heard of it in my life. So I cook on a video, and uh the lady is speaking, she's speaking a whole lot, so I have to get through a bunch of speaking, and finally I get to the to the warmups. And with traditional TRE, with with full-blown TRE, there's like seven warmups, right? So she gives me two warm-ups. So I do these two warm-ups, and mind you, I'm I'm I'm towards the end of an LST session, so I'm still in the medicine a little bit. Yes, yeah. So this is towards the end of the session, and I'm doing these warmups on the floor, right? I'm doing wall sits, I'm on the floor, I'm doing everything, I'm following a video on my iPhone, and then she's like, okay, lay on the floor. So we lay on the floor, we do the final warm-up, and uh and then after the final warm up, she starts to instruct and to starting to close the legs, right? So start to close the legs, and and then I start getting these tremors, right? These shakes. And at first, like because I'm undergoing this medicine, I'm completely surrendered to the experience, and in many instances. So my shaking is very intense, yeah. And the shaking keeps happening, and I just start laughing because it it feels so good, right? It feels like it feels like I'm being tickled from within my body, and and it's like, what is going on? Like I'm feeling new feelings in my body, and I'm feeling a brand new connection to my body, and it's like this is this is intense. And so after the laughter come very intense tears. So start crying a whole bunch. I'm like, this is this is amazing, right? So get into these deep tears, start crying, crying, crying, and then I'm doing this for like 30 minutes to an hour. I the video is long gone, right? And because I'm just loving the experience, it feels so so good. It's like so deep, so juicy, so thick of like peace and safety. And that's where I'm getting at today is like the experience of peace and safety is why I'm here. And what's really amazing is I I was able to go through this so-called bad trip, right? This so-called extreme discomfort, and just transmute it into safety, into a feeling of tranquility in my body that was like it just blew my mind. Yeah. So the following day, yeah, after my LST session. Well, wait, hang on a second.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

What year was this about? Like when was this approximately?

SPEAKER_03 17:38

This was 2024, right? So this was like summer 2024, and yeah, so this was uh two years ago, right? Almost two years ago.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_03 17:47

And uh the day after this experience, I I opened up Reddit, right? So I'm I'm trying to find everything I can about TRE because I'm fascinated, right? I've done yoga, done meditation, I've done qigong, and what TRE gave me was something I had never found with all these experiences. And of course I found it a little bit, but there's something very unique about TRE that for me doesn't nothing I've ever done connected to it. So the next day I look up TRE on Reddit, I go deep, I dive deep, I read almost all their articles as much as I can, and then I do TRECT.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Because there's a very, very bad active community on the long term long-term TRE. Long-term TRE. Subreddit, right, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

And that their main thing is that if you do TRE for a year, multiple years, right, you can release all tension, all trauma from your body. And then after you release all this, you can go deeper into your meditation, your spiritual practices, and your spiritual practices will have like a 10x effect because you've released so much tension from the body. We'll go into that later. But I did TRE again for another hour, and again, deep safety, deep peace, and I was hooked. So after that experience, I started practicing for many, many, many months after that. I even taught a huge group of people before I actually was uh actually done the teacher training. So I taught my friends, my family, everybody that I knew TRE because it was so amazing, right? So that's kind of my journey and where I'm at with this experience right now.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Incredible. Well, okay, well, all right. That's a that's a beautiful capture. Yeah, and that yeah, I it's cool because I've heard some of this, but not all linked together. Um the whole whole sort of story like that. Okay, well, so I I have a bunch more questions. Are you can I keep can I fire questions at you? Yes, go forth. Um well, so okay, so you found it. Uh you you know you already had pretty deep experience with yoga, qigong, breath work, you know, so you so very much embodied experience meditation, I um I assume as well. Um something was different about TRE. It gave you this peace feeling it immediately, but these early sessions. So um what if we focus on sort of like, I don't know, I'm gonna pick an arbitrary time period, maybe three months or six months, like like your initial period of doing it a lot, you know, maybe daily or however often you were doing it, and right when when it was you know, before you joined the certification program, etc., when it was purely just a personal practice, what was yeah, I think three months is a good number. Like, what was that first three months like? What kept you going to it? Was it was was it what was changing? What was that period of time like, as best you remember?

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, Alex, I I that's a really great question. So what what those first three months for me of TRE were it was it was almost like I was going as deep as I could into my body, right? Now that may seem really weird and odd, but I'm gonna explain. So I felt more in my body, I felt more alive, I felt more energy, and I felt less anxiety. I felt like a very strong sense of innate joy coming online for me. I had been doing yoga, I had been doing qi gong, I had been doing meditation, all this stuff. So I had a framework of different spiritual practices, different energy practices that I've been doing for the past decade. Sure. So once I landed into TRE, it just like exploded. It was like all the knowledge that I had had, like this mental knowledge of spirituality, everything, became felt in my body. So the first three months of TRE were like, it was such an opening. It was such a release of fight or flight responses I've had stuck in my body since birth. It was such a release of uh survival patterns that didn't feel good in my body. So what I first noticed those first three months is a deepening of my breath. And I've told this to so many of my friends. One of my friends is a breath work instructor, his name is Calvin. I told him, I said, Hey, what I'm noticing about TRE is that I'm getting my breath back. And he's like, What are you talking about? Up right. As I started to do more and more TRE, I could feel my body breathing, and it was like I was getting more energy, I was getting more life force. It was all that old breath that was stuck in that was stuck in shock, panic, trauma was now coming back to me. And I felt I felt younger. I felt rejuvenated. I felt had more passion, had more drive, had more energy. And it started giving me like an awakening. I felt more myself. And I've taught TRE to so many people. I'm gonna digress a little bit, but I've taught TRE to so many people. And the one thing that people tell me the most is I feel more myself. Like instead of like playing a character in life, like, oh, I gotta play this character, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta talk this way, I gotta speak this way, oh, with this person, I gotta speak this way. And it's like when you start doing TRE, it allows you to let go of the character and allow you just to be presence, yeah, being nowness. So my meditation, boom, everything was just unlocked, everything became easier. My qi gong became easier, my breathing, my breath work became easier. My meditation was like it was opened. It was like and I was like, I can be present without trying. It was so beautiful. So my first three months, very beautiful, very amazing, and I felt like I had just had a uh like a rebirth in a certain sense, which was remarkable, amazing.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:23

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

Wow. Well, okay, so for but I remember one phase when we were in when we were in certification, you know, which takes you know close to a year from start to finish. And and I remember one phase of your practice because you know when when when when we first got started, um you were you know, you're doing still quite a bit, often doing you know, an hour or two, sometimes maybe more daily. Um with a lot of you know, these exactly these benefits you're naming. And obviously your system was you know, for some people that would be way, way, way too much. So of course any listeners, you know, it's not like everybody should be it's TRE is not one size fits all. You know, for some people, yeah, it's just everybody's quite different. But for you personally, having that phase of you know quite long sessions, you know, your body, mind, nervous system, chakra system, you know, was was basically saying yes to yes to that. Um and you know, you received a lot of these these benefits that you're naming. But but I remember a phase of our learning when when you told me or the group, I can't remember if it was in class, and you shared something like um that you were you were tr trying something new, which was you were sort of you were pausing more frequently, pausing for integration. This was a little bit newer, right? And there were some benefits you were getting from adjusting your practice that way. Do you do you remember that what I'm talking about? And could you speak to it a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 24:52

So so my my question to you is are you speaking about me pausing during my TRE session or pausing between how many times I practice TRE, like per day, or taking a break between weeks?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Right. I can't remember anymore. I thought it might have been about pausing inside your session, but it might have been session, but it might have been about slowing down. Uh like I can't I can't remember. But is that true? Did you have some have you experimented with how much you're doing, how much pausing, how much in between? Have you have you done have you had phases of experimentation like that?

SPEAKER_03 25:25

I I have phases of both. So I have phases inside of the TRE session itself when I'm on the floor.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

And I have phases of pausing how many times I actually do TRE. Okay. So like taking a week off, taking a month off.

SPEAKER_01 25:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

And so let's go inside the session, right? So when I pause inside my TRE session, it's kind of like when I'm at the gym trying to get a pump and I got some weights and I'm trying to get ripped, right? So I'm lifting weights, I'm lifting hard. If if I lift for one hour straight, like I'm gonna have no energy. So I'm I'm not gonna have any energy for my workout, right? So it's just there's no point, it's useless. Right. So you take break between how much you're lifting. Okay, do like one set, take a break. Yep. Another set, take a break, another set, take a break. So when I first started TRE, I was doing like a three-hour session. This was this isn't that don't please don't do this at home. So like I I'm like a guinea pig for a lot of things, you know, psychedelics with TRE. Don't do this at home because it can it can bring up a lot of things, and your body may say yes to it, but you have to find that out yourself, right? So this is uh anyway, yeah. So I'll do three three hour sessions, two hour sessions, yeah, and I will keep going, go, go, go, go, and I just wouldn't stop. Yeah, and um eventually you had come into the training, right, where it's like, hey, you know, let's do some TRE and let's take a break, right? And it was new to me. And so we're doing a training together, you're like, hey, let's take a break between this session. I'm like, oh, this actually feels amazing, right? And then I went back when I was training with you. You had instructed us to go back into the TRE, go back into it, and I was like, this feels amazing, feels more powerful, and so I I loved it, and it's uh it's been great to be able to do TRE, so I'll do TRE for like let's say five, 10 minutes, take a break, and then wait until my body is just feeling so peaceful, so safe, and then boom, do it again, and then boom. So in addition to what you taught me, I feel it's equally as important is after a session to just lay down for the amount of time that you do TRE, like let's say you do TRE for 20 minutes of shaking, then 20 minutes of of lying down.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Of integration. So you can do double the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like like a meditation or some sort of.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

But yes, yeah, and I I almost find that TRE itself, after you finish doing it and you lie down for 20 minutes, or or double the time in which you've done TRE, so let's say 40 minutes if you've done 20, just lying down, it it's almost like your body knows how to meditate. Yeah, it's a really strange thing with TRE. It's like the body knows how to do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

You don't have to consciously do it, do anything. You don't have to try happening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

And this is the medicine of TRE that I find so beautiful, right? Is and when I started meditation, I was 20, I had just started all this practice, I just started all this stuff, and I was really fresh. My body was full of tension, right? So as I was getting into meditation, I was full of tension, and it was like I had to had to go through this tension to get to a meditative state, right? Right. So when I teach people TRE, it's like I'm teaching them TRE and they're shaking, they're shaking, they're shaking, and then I take them through like a really short body scan meditation, feeling all parts of the body, and they drop into a meditation state like it's nobody's problem, right? So they drop it to the state and they're just like, I can't believe I got into this meditation state. Sometimes it's so difficult for me. So what's amazing about TRE is it'll drop you into a meditative state, right? Meditative state meaning a deep state of relaxation where your body can digest and can just go into a deeper state of meditation, right? And that's that is the medicine of TRE is that this is this has been really been what I've been wanting to talk about this whole time is TRE, you start at a state of relaxation that you already have in your life, right? This is where you're starting. You just started your TRE journey. As you start doing more and more TRE, your your permanent state of relaxation will start to get deeper and deeper and deeper, right? And it it starts to be uh it starts to give like it's a permanent state of relaxation. Which is the same as a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Let me share yeah, yeah. Okay, so let me share something quick because you'll you'll like this because I don't think we've had this conversation. But um okay, you know the polyvagal curve, right? You know, we talk about it, right? There's sort of like there's the baseline, and then there's sympathetic arousal, and then there's freeze immobilization at the top, right? You'll we use that as to understand the the stress states of the nervous system. And you know, the one of the goals of TRE is to bring us back to that our baseline, our baseline ventral vagal physiology. But but a concept, and and David lectures on this sometimes, maybe you've seen it on YouTube or something, but but he uh he started sort of lecturing about okay, well, but what's beneath the curve? Like, so you've got your baseline. Well, what could you lower your baseline? Like what what happens when you not only restore neutral or you know, sort of, but can you actually deepen that baseline? Which I I in my own experience too, you know, before I came into the TRE world, also, you know, like you in my twenties, you know, big interest in Zen meditation, uh, Japanese martial arts as a as a as a connected to meditation, so exploring, and for me, also like you, TRE um really uh opened up things that were uh sort of took what I had already practiced and learned, and it actually allowed it to sink in more fully, fully into my body, mind, and nervous system. Um so I totally and so but that idea of and I think that you know my view of meditative practices, qigong practices, different traditions, a lot of it is about exploring, learning, you know, finding more depth within ourselves. Um and but I think I think you and I agree on this. The modern world is such that a lot of people are hanging out in unresolved stress, or they they that's almost like step one is can you kind of get to a reasonably functional calm state, and that's not an ending point. Sort of the purpose of many, many practices to sort of is to potentially find increasingly deeper experiences of your your body, your spirituality, whatever language that we might be using. But anyway, so I love your description of um of uh yeah kind of coming, you know, bring b dropping the baseline even further.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Yeah, thank you for uh going deep into the uh description of that whole polyvagal theory. And it is like for me when I started my TRE journey, I felt like I I've seen myself, right, try so many different things, right? And I've tried ice baths, right, I've done saunas, I've done exercise, I've gone to the gym, lifted weights, I've done long runs, lots of yoga, lots of meditation, lots of qigong. And sometimes morning sessions take about two to three hours, right? To like get into this really amazing state, right? Really amazing, really relaxed state, just feeling like purely yourself at the finest sense. All right. So it sometimes this is really time-inducing, right? And and the there's a huge culture, it's a huge biohacking culture. You know, biohacking is a really it's a broad term, but it's the culture on on how to be your best self, right? How to be your best self, how to improve yourself, how to evolve yourself. There's it's it's a really broad term. So what what I I love about TRE is what we're just talking about, is being able to deepen your parasympathetic state, being able to deepen your permanent state of relaxation, right? And being able to get into the parasympathetic and get all the way down, and how how much how much deeper can your state go to where you you're embodying a profound state of relaxation, right? And so you're embodying the state of relaxation, and even if you go into the world and experience fight or flight responses that are very intense and jarring, your ability to get back into the state of relaxation is is much easier, right? It's it's you're it's it's it's a it's a it's a part of you that already knows it. Yeah, so again, what I love about TRE is that it allows me to get into this permanent state of relaxation and get it deeper and deeper to where I don't need all these other biohacking things to feel good, right? But now I'm I'm using these things to add to my life in a very beautiful way because I wake up, I feel full of energy now. I wake up, I feel full of energy, I'm I'm I'm ready to go for a run immediately when I wake up. So it's something about TRE has not only given me a lot of peace, but it has increased my life force tremendously. So now I can I can go run five miles and it feels like I'm not even trying. I can go to the gym, work out, feels like I'm not even trying. There's something unique about TRE, especially for me, that has given me such an increase in my liveness, increase in who I am as a human being. And I find it to be, it's it has so many applications, it's unbelievable, which is so great, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Amazing. So good. Well, okay, I mean, it's it's so inspiring hearing kind of what you've discovered. I mean, what a what a testimony to, yeah. I mean so here's my question. So because for you as the N of One, I mean, it's just been a massive success. You know, you should and and what I like about you so much is that you start, you start here, it's like I want to take this all the way in this in this person.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

Um, so that's so cool because that you've you've you've taken you've really pushed, you you've really explored very, very deeply with it and and your other practices. So and now, I mean, you know, you're you're also quite, I've always said, okay, you're gonna be like the Pied Piper of um well, luckily we have many Pied Pi. I mean, I think David is the he's uh the OG Pied Pied Piper of TRE, you know, in terms of how but to me actually what really does propagate TRE in general is people who are enthusiastic, you know, people like you who are just like, holy moly, I have to share this with people. And so, you know, you've been doing that with uh, you know, uh informally, and then now you're you know you're certified, and so formally now as a certification or as a as a provider, as TRE provider.

SPEAKER_03 36:07

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

So so now you you have your own personal experience, that's the N of one, but you've also shared this with many other people. So what what are you learning from the people that you've shared this with?

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Right. So um I I've shared this with a a wide spectrum of people, and I I think this is with everything, right? If if we want to change, then we will see changes happen in our life, right? So TRE is amazing in that it can start bringing amazing changes in our in our life and in our body, right? And it can make things happen with effortlessness, with ease and grace. I've taught this to men, I've taught this to women. I've seen people have greater connections to their intimacy, to their sexual energy. They feel like I can last a lot longer in bed, I feel more relaxed with my partner, uh, my connection to my partner is so much more deep. I feel more present with my partner, my relationship, where we communicate is way better. So relationships can be significantly improved with TRE. Also, other so the the big thing about TRE is safety, right? So women start feeling more safe in their body, which is huge. When when women feel safe, it's it's incredible, it's very beautiful. And so I've I've taught this to women that have had uh chronic nightmares. I've taught this to women that have had uh experiences where they do do not feel safe around men. And it's it's really beautiful because it's I I had one friend I taught to, she had chronic nightmares from a very traumatic incident in her life where um a really extreme trauma happened where she she was driving a car and some person just boom, you know, walked into the street while she was driving and the person was on some some really hardcore drugs.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

I see.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

And for my my and the person passed away, right? Yeah, but for my friend, it was an extreme trauma. Yeah, you know, hitting somebody that double somebody who was drug induced walked into the street, and then you hit this person, right, and then this person passes away, like huge trauma. So my my friend had nightmares like for five years straight. So she had to see a therapist once a week to be able to get this stuff out of her mind, out of her life. Sure. Right. Having to use substances like alcohol to be able to fall asleep. It's it's not always amazing. It's not a great life. Right. So when I taught her this practice of TRE, she was able to boom, just release that. And she had done this for a month or two straight, three times a week, 15 minutes each day, three times a week, and boom, all of her nightmares are gone. Wow. The other girl that I taught, uh, she was feeling really unsafe around men. She felt like, uh, why are men doing this to me? Why do they treat me this way? Why do they why do I feel this way? And I said, Hey, won't you come over to my house and I'll just show you some TRE. So she came over, I showed her, and within a month or two, she found like the partner she's been with for more than a year. And they have such a solid communication, beautiful relationship, and it's pretty inspiring. I also taught her some qi gong, right? So so there was some TRE, some really beautiful alchemical qi gong that I taught her. So so she she she had a profound change in her life. And it's this TRE is really deep, it's amazing, and it is also widened the spectrum as as to what it can do for people. So, like I'll give you an example. One of my buddies, um he he's like a men's coach, teaches men how to really feel connected to their body. I I taught him some TRE, and for him, the biggest thing was he felt so much more present with his partner, and he felt more present uh not only you know during sexual connection, but he felt present from day-to-day life. And he feels like he has more energy. He feels like he can come home from work and do TRE, and he feels like he can just relax into his sleep. So sleep, relationship, career, being able to feel safe in the world, being able to feel relaxed in what you're doing, like like these are these are huge, right? And I I feel that I've taught many people TRE. I've seen people release uh traumas just on the first go of doing TRE. And I've seen people not shake at all, right? And that that's only happened one time, right? Um, but what I really feel about the way to make TRE very, very powerful is if we are open to change our life, right? Instead of looking at TRE like another pharmaceutical pill, right, that that we're gonna take and it's just gonna do all the wonders for us, right? Right, I I strongly feel, especially with all the stuff that we're doing, meditation, TRE, psychedelics, there is a certain element of taking responsibility for one's life. Right. So I take responsibility for my change, my growth, and my evolution. If if those are in order, then TRE will absolutely do wonders for you. But the magic of TRE is that it can start to get through resistance to change. And it's really beautiful in that it's it's almost like a like a medicine for the nervous system to help us uh get through things, right? And and really start to evolve in really beautiful ways.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

It's amazing. That's a good description. I like that. Medicine for the nervous system to help us move through. I love that. Um, let me think for let me pause for a second. I gotta reflect. So yeah, I love it. That's that's that's all that's all awesome. How are you um are you teaching in lots of formats? Like, are you doing a lot online? Are you doing a lot in person? Are you doing a lot of groups? Like what's what's how what's what how what formats are you doing a lot of this with now?

SPEAKER_03 41:52

So for the past year, I have been I I've had a pretty close group uh for the past year. I I wanted to do one year of our close group of friends and friends of friends, and we had this really beautiful group of people that I've been teaching TRE and Qigong to for the past 12 months. Yeah. So it was three days a week, Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays for an hour each day, right? And we've been doing that for one year straight. Teaching them really deep qigong, um very spiritual types, and TRE, right? And seeing how can this create change in a person's life. So the whole year has been amazing. I've seen some people have some really big awakenings, feelings of greater energy, better sleep, better connection to their spiritual world, or or however people feel uh that that connects them to, right? So it's it's been really beautiful. So I've been teaching this small group of people, and I've been teaching everybody that I meet TRE. And for me, this past year, and ever since getting my certification, I've just been teaching as many people as I can teach. Anyone who's open to learn, I'm just teaching. So right now I'm open to taking one-on-one sessions. I'll give my link tree later. Um, and so that's that's what I like to do. And eventually I would love to teach like maybe some uh war veterans. That'd be amazing to teach them and to see how much change can come about just helping them release some things in their body. So I'm I'm open. I'm open for opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah well, so a couple so a month or two ago, you know, you emailed me, and you you and I've I have had a few conversations just around you know your your interest in sort of going further into okay, well, yeah, trauma, uh TRE is great for trauma, it's great for stress, all good stuff. And but also for you personally, it's like, hey, this is a major catalyst for meditative practices, qigong, inner inner growth, spirituality, things like that. And so, and so, you know, I I said, well, you know, there's there's people, you know, besides me, you know, there's other people you should connect with, um, potentially other people, you know, like I I think of um uh Christina Guimond, she's uh in uh Montreal, she's a person who with a deep uh vipassana background who's done some um um podcasts and she's had an interest in studying this relationship between between TRE and meditation and then um another woman in uh Australia Tree Wiseblood um uh has similarly like that's kind of one of her areas of focus is around TRE and the spiritual experience or non or meditative experience.

SPEAKER_03 44:30

I'm curious if you've been able to talk with anybody else um uh besides your own personal anybody else have you networked yet in the bigger TRE world that's that's my question yeah so I had I had initially emailed you about this right yeah and you connected me to Tree yeah who I emailed right and so I emailed her and uh she gave me such a wonderful description of like TRE and non-dual meditation uh huh so this is I'm gonna take the esoterics out of this so non-dual meditation is a way to feel oneness with all of life and the way to feel connected to everything right really beautiful it's a very like basic description of it yeah and so Tree was able to give me like insights as to as you start getting deeper into TRE you're gonna get deeper and deeper into your body right you're gonna have deeper deeper awakening you might have a head awakening right you might have a heart awakening you might have a belly awakening and each of these awakenings will allow you to feel much more grounded and rooted in your body which is amazing right because I I've just got this book I'm gonna show you with this book so this is a really beautiful book right here The Direct Means to Eternal Bliss right so super short book and the book it has a it has one meditation technique that just blows my mind and the meditation technique it's a really old technique it's not something that we're like sharing that's gonna evolve meditation it's really just being able to become aware of your awareness being conscious of your consciousness being able to see the seer the one that sees the thoughts the feelings the emotions turning it around and looking directly at that right so this this is a a very deep non-dual meditation and one Indian sage his name is Ramana Maharshi right very famous for non-dual meditation right and one of the deepest mantras meditations like inquiries that he had was asking yourself who am I right right who am I like if if if I don't live if my body doesn't live forever my mind doesn't live forever then who am I right and so being able to go and become aware of your awareness and asking yourself who am I it leads to a very beautiful like still stillness meditation that's amazing. So the main question I had for tree was I'm reading all these non-dual teachers from 100 200 years ago and they keep telling you they keep telling me to let go of my body let go of your body let go of your body don't don't worry about your bloody but the deeper I get into TRE the deeper I get into my body and the deeper I get into TRE the deeper states of meditation I spontaneously get into. And it just it was like a paradox for me. So she was able to explain like for me like I don't want to go into the Himalayan mountains and run off and I I want to live in a world I want to connect with people. I want to be able to share things with people that can help benefit their lives you know small or great right so Tree was able to share like as you go deeper into TRE deeper into meditation these non-dual meditations you're able to have awakenings in your body that that help you start having more energy in certain centers of your body that you're able to share with the world right and as you start deepening into your body you you start deepening your desire to help others so that was a that was really beautiful for me because and I had that intuitively in my head yeah um but it's also good to see certain paths starting to blend these really deep meditation paths which tell you to run away into the mountains yeah right and starting to blend the body as well because I'm on this earth I want to live in my body I'm I'm here with a body so I'm not wanting to leave my body I want to get into my body the kingdom of heaven is within you within the body so how much deeper can I go into the body with yoga qigong meditation TRE psychedelics if that's optional right but how can we go into the body and start to have insights that we can share with others to make the world a better place and uh yeah it's this is the journey that that I'm on.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Amazing beautiful amazing so cool I'm really glad you connected with Tree she's wonderful she she's great she led a uh workshop for neurogenic integration last maybe wintertime or late last yeah around wintertime um which was lovely and I've interact I I I I interviewed her once and that was a lovely conversation but I especially loved to see it of course you know in two hours of course it's gonna be very introductory but she just she uh she did a beautiful job describing how uh this has been meaningful for her and then sharing some of her practices so it was it was it was really great to see that from her amazing um I next up right now is that okay now I'm gonna make a pitch to you so I want so so here's a so I want you to share a two hour workshop with the neurogenic integration community the same thing like where where you just I mean that format you know it's one or two times a month we do these special guest workshops and really the intention of it is people who to share kind of what brings TRE alive for them personally for some people that involves dance for some people you know it involves heart or whatever the case may be but I would um as I listen to you today I'm thinking I would really love to see how Jared would lead um a two hour journey that's that's that about what you've learned and then and then sharing it with others. So I don't know what what do you think? Will you is it a yes? Will you will you yeah I'm totally open okay for sure good we'll get that on the calendar. Awesome well yeah well so you check in for a moment see if there's anything you feel like like we haven't touched upon or something you'd want to share or maybe like um uh people who are a little bit newer to TRE and maybe maybe what you you know what you think people should know or be open to or just see if there's any kind of closing comments that feel good for you.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

You know Alex I um I've tried a lot of things and I I just want the world to just feel safer right inside and out because we we live in a world where people don't feel safe and and I'm saying this in the context because a lot of people there's a lot of anxiety there's a lot of depression there's a lot of emotional pain in the world that just keeps on going for generation after generation right so and also people feel overwhelmed with the amount of information out there like sometimes people see so much information they're like I don't even know where to begin. And so people get overwhelmed right and I I I really feel that TRE has an amazing ability to help that overwhelm become more relaxed and more peaceful. To take that overwhelm and allow people to get into a state where they can think more freely they can feel more freely there they feel safe to feel things they haven't felt in a long time right and TRE is amazing in that it helps people to open up emotionally to things that may be in their body that they really need to feel they really need to process. And once processed they have more energy to explore other options they have more clarity to see like what is for them right so it's it's TRE is amazing for people that are religious and non-religious. It's amazing for all spiritual types and that it brings you closer to your core self it brings you closer to like the feeling of relaxation that all of us are looking for in whatever we're doing so I really feel that TRE can really be beneficial for almost everybody on the planet to start to relax into their self feel more themselves and be better lovers husbands you know wives mothers daughters sisters that everything and to be able to live with authenticity and live with a a feeling of you know I feel good in my body right because that's that's what we want big time.

SPEAKER_01 53:05

Cool awesome well Jared I think you're you're such a I really like the way you describe these things that you're you're you're you have a gift for um I don't know conveying the magic of things I mean um you know everybody's gonna put it into different words but I I really like and resonate with the way that you describe things so so to me it was it felt really important to capture a capture this uh this conversation so yeah big gratitude to you we'll we'll definitely put all your link contact information links etc that'll all be in the show note description all things like that so people listening definitely you know Jared's a cool guy just to connect with do that um we'll hope that he said yes to to guest uh teaching on the uh soon for neurogenic integration so we'll bring him in for a workshop uh as soon as we can schedule that so um super awesome really appreciated taking time for this conversation awesome that's it for today's episode we hope you found inspiration and new insights into the power of neurogenic drawing if you enjoyed this conversation make sure to subscribe share and leave a review it really helps us reach more people interested in this transformative work.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

And if you want to dive deeper connect with us or to learn more about our sessions, courses and upcoming trainings, head over to neurogenic integration dot com