Pirates Insider Podcast, Episode 38 (7/8 vs. Braves)

Jared Jones had a perfect game going through six innings, but Pirates manager Don Kelly took him out. Was that the right call? What was really to blame in the Pirates' 3-0 loss? Also, Ben Cherington talked before Wednesday's game. Jason Mackey takes a closer look at some of the GM's comments on injuries, the trade deadline and the performance of specific players.

Transcript

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All right, good morning, everybody. This is the Pirates Insider Podcast. I am your host, Jason Mackey, coming to you from PNC Park after a 3-0 Pirates loss to the Atlanta Braves. And it was a frustrating one. Certainly Jared Jones pitched extremely well. This was a ballgame you would probably like the Pirates to win based on how well Jared Jones pitched. You probably saw by now six perfect innings. He was absolutely fantastic. Jones struck out eight, threw 77 pitches, 53 for strikes. The big discussion point, of course, is going to be taking Jones out of the game. I'll get into that shortly, a little bit later in the podcast. Ben Charrington met with the media before the game today, going to talk a little bit about Ben Charrington's comments about injuries, how they relate to the trade deadline. Benos also spoke on a few players individually, uh Connor Griffin and why he's going on the I. A little bit about Mitch Keller, who starts on Thursday in the series finale, about Paul Skeens and his velocity, Carmen Majinski's role, Marcelo Zuna. We'll talk about all that, but I'm not going to bury the lead here. We're going to talk about Jared Jones and Don Kelly's decision. And my opinion here might not be popular, but I don't really care. I don't have any problem with Don Kelly taking out Jared Jones when he did. If anything, uh maybe you say he should have gone with Jones for one more inning. And I'm not sure what that's going to solve. They didn't lose the game in the seventh inning. You need the guys who pitched to pitch better. You need the offense to score runs to win. I'm also not going to sit here and complain about the offense because by and large, that group has been very good. It just so happened to be an off day. Things did not go well. They weren't able to score. Grant Holmes shut them down. It was not a night to remember for the offense. And of course, you've probably seen this by now. Former pirate Joey Bart in the eighth inning, two outs, a man on. He hits a home run. That came off Dennis Santana. And he hit a first pitch sinker down in the zone, went 422 to left center, left his bat at 106.3, and that was basically all she wrote. The Atlanta Braves tacked on another run in the ninth inning. Didn't matter because, again, the Pirates did not score. But Jared Jones, and I certainly understand the frustration wanting to see the Pirates win a game like this. They should win games like this. There was an opportunity to win the series tonight. There was an opportunity to continue some of the momentum they've built. The Pirates have played pretty well recently since that second game in Washington. And really, I liked a lot of what they did on the road trip, but I don't know. Like I wouldn't, I wouldn't do anything differently other than maybe let Jones go one more inning, and that's not why they lost. He's making, I believe, what was his eighth start since coming back from internal brace surgery. Jared Jones even knew he wasn't going a full nine. That was never in the cards. You can argue for one more inning. I'm going to be happy with Jared Jones pitching the way the Pirates expect Jared Jones to pitch. I look at this thing and I see a loss that, yes, is frustrating and you want to win the game, but also encouraging that Jared Jones is that guy. He's the guy that went four innings, got a no decision in Philadelphia, gave up one earned run and struck out six. He's been a lot better of late. And I thought his way of doing it in this one was it's not only repeatable, but it's Jared Jones pitching to his strengths. And that's something he talked about with us post-game about going back to his bread and butter. Don't overcomplicate it. He throws hard. There's a lot of life on the fastball. He also used his slider a lot. Past two starts, the slider has been great. He was very efficient. He threw a changeup, but it was, I think, just one, but it was basically fastball slider. He started out 10 fastballs to begin his outing. I thought it was notable. Henry Davis caught Jared Jones. I think that made a difference. Little news before the game ended. Rodriguez went on the IL with left glute discomfort. So Raphael Flores Jr. is here and is active. I would imagine he catches tomorrow, catches Mitch Keller. But I thought it was, it showed the relationship that Jones and Henry Davis have. Henry did an excellent job catching Jared Jones. I know there's obviously concern about Henry's offense. And when Andy is in the lineup, if he's adding something with his bat, which he's done, you obviously take that. But I'm I'm going to choose to be encouraged by Jared Jones pitching well because he wasn't going to throw a complete game. And you can't just this is a tough one because it it takes the conversation about baseball a little bigger. Right? Like I don't think there's a major league baseball team out there that would have pushed Jared Jones to 100 pitches, to 110 pitches. If you look at the number of pitches he threw, he was on pace to throw 116. Was Jared Jones his eighth start coming back from internal brace surgery? Was he going to throw 116 pitch complete game? No. And you can argue, yes, Don Kelly changed the mojo because he took Jared Jones out. Whatever. I don't buy it. I just don't buy it. The seventh inning, Mason Montgomery comes in, gets an out, gives up a single, strikes out the next two, they move on. Dennis Santana, I mean, if anything, he's probably throwing the pitch that Joey Bart, the guy who caught him for a long time, is sitting on. He ambushed him and he got burned. You need to score more. You need to score a run to win. I don't know if I'm going to convince anybody with those thoughts on Jared Jones. I'm not really trying, but this podcast is my place to voice my opinion. And again, I don't have any problem with it. There are things that I don't love about what the Pirates and other Major League Baseball teams do. I've been open about that. I don't love how quick of a hook they sometimes have with starters. I haven't loved where they're at with utilizing Karma Majinski. I don't have any problem with this. This is the norm around baseball. And do I like that in general? Do I wish guys maybe took a little bit off and pitched a little bit? I mean, that's consistent with what I've said with Paul Skeens. I'm fine with him taking a little bit off the fastball. I'd rather see somebody locate it and be around the zone, be efficient, get ground balls, get quick outs. I don't need to see a ton of strikeouts. I want to see fewer pitches. That's the same line of thinking. I just can't get that riled up over it. I know I'm alone. I know other people are going to get riled up over it, and that's fine. All right, let's move on to a few Ben Charrington comments and what he said. Um I thought it was encouraging what Ben said about the trade deadline. The Pirates are uh they're going through it with injuries. We know that Connor Griffin is out until September. He has a torn sagittal band in his left ring finger, as you know. Um I didn't know what a sagittal band was before yesterday. Neither did you. Let's not lie to each other. Uh, but he's out. O'Neill Cruz, Spencer Horwitz, they're both in Florida rehabbing. Um, they're gonna be back sometime after the All-Star break, Ben Charrington said it's too soon to talk about uh when they're gonna get back in games. Now Andy is on the 10-day IL. Um and we asked Ben, somebody asked Ben about um, does that alter your plans for the trade deadline? And a separate question was, does that alter your plans to maybe go get a shortstop? The short answer was we're not there yet. It's kind of all MLB draft all the time right now. That's gonna be Saturday and Sunday after the draft. Ben said they'll kind of recalibrate, maybe think about shortstop a little bit. My own opinion is that they don't need to go there. I'd rather see them if they're gonna go acquire something or if they're gonna go trade their comp round pick or something like that. Um, I would rather see them target pitching. I think that's more important with where the Pirates are at, getting some bullpen help. I think tonight was a little bit of an indication of that as Dennis Santana and Isaac Matson got dinged up. But I I don't need to see them get another shortstop. I'm fine with Jared Triolo being in there and holding down the fort. Maybe you go Nick Gonzalez a little bit. I don't know. Depends on how much you want to maybe play Tyler Callahan at third base. Who knows if Jack Branagan can be an option? But I would, again, much I can live with Jared Triolo at shortstop, batting like eighth or ninth. He has some action, he actually has some really good numbers out of the number number eight spot in the lineup. The bigger issue for me is figuring out, figuring out the pitching staff in the bullpen. So as we transition to a few pitchers, what Ben talked about, Mitch Keller was one he was asked about, and I thought this was interesting. Um, asking about what the issues are with Mitch and something Ben brought up is left-handed hitters. They have an 831 OPS compared to a 575 for right-handed hitters. I knew there was a split. I didn't know it was that drastic. Keller has a 502 ERA this season. And Ben basically said that's it's something that you can't really change. You know, probably it seemed like what he was talking about is kind of adding a pitch. He said it's not brand new, but it's probably been more of a glare here recently, and teams are stacking lefties. You can see that. Um, but right now, basically the Pirates option or what Keller needs to do, better command execution, uh, command and execution, and maybe a revamped pitch mix and sequencing. Um, so a chance to change that, but I don't think you're gonna see him, you know, adopt a new pitch to throw to left-handers or become a completely new pitcher when facing left-handers. They're gonna have to figure out a way to get this done in season. Another thing Ben was asked about was Paul Skeens. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about his velocity. Uh he was asked a follow-up question. Is it fatigue with Paul Skeens? This is Ben's quote. He said, I don't really know if we have a great way to measure fatigue, so that's speculation. We can more accurately see changes in the delivery. There are some minor changes we're seeing, but he knows about them. It's not news. It's what do you do about that in the middle of the season? I thought that was interesting, admitting that there are some delivery changes with Paul Skeens. At the same time, I don't think I don't think that his delivery is way off. I don't think Paul Skeens, you know, suddenly is uh lost on the mound or something like that. You know, I I think I do think fatigue is possible. And that's something Charrington said uh later on in his answer, and I think it will do him some good to get a break. I've maintained this opinion that I think just between starts and in general, I'd like to see Paul Skeens kind of simplify. I thought he did that in his last start. And then it's obviously worth it to look at the delivery and see if there's anything they can correct in season, but much, much, much like Mitch Keller, it's not going to be a complete overhaul. Another thing Ben was asked about was Karma Majinski's role. And I thought it was good because you're kind of explaining why this looks the way that it does. And I know it upsets some people. I've already gotten some emails about this, and people are, you know, that they don't understand why Karmen Majinski was pitching in such a lopsided game the other night, which I sort of get. And believe me, I when when stepping back and looking at this entire scenario, I do wish the Pirates would be more nimble with this. And I think there's an opportunity to do that. I think we also need to consider the pitcher's side of this and what could happen. The Pirates don't have a lot of options if they need to have another starting pitcher. If they have an injury, again, knock on some wood here or a microphone. Um Karmen Majinski's the guy, and they need to make sure he's a little bit stretched out. Now, the way Ben Charrington explained it, basically, after every time he pitches, he will get with uh pitching coach Bill Murphy and they'll kind of talk about okay, you threw this many pitches, this many ups, this is your rest, this is when you're gonna be quote unquote live again. And that gives the option to Don Kelly. You can then deploy him whenever you see fit. Now, I I don't have a problem with Don Kelly deploying Karma Majinski in that situation. We're continuing to ask Kelly about Paul Skeens not winning any starts. You want to stamp it out. You just want to be done with it. And you know, I'm not trying to rehash things from two days ago, but just get the win. Just get done with it. I don't think anybody has a problem with Karma Majinski pitching in that game. The argument is probably getting Karma Majinski out after one inning, but you're letting the guy get some work. Need a quick first inning. Like I want him to just get touches in that situation. Make sure the win is salted away. They did. He gets a second inning. You still have like some framework of him being built up. You get him out after two, fine. Uh, it's not perfect, but uh again, I think both things can be true. We can say they need to still be a little bit more nimble. They're they're trying to find that get the water to find its level here. I don't think it's been perfect yet, but I do understand what they're going for. The last thing Charrington was asked about that I want to highlight here, this is in my story at mlb.com, by the way, pirates.com, was Marcelo Zuna and what the Pirates are going to do. Uh Charrington tipped us off on this. We didn't know about it. I guess he took a foul ball off his toe in batting practice, and so he's been down for the past couple of days. Gets in the lineup today, didn't do a ton, had a strong first at bat, and he did single, but he also struck out looking to end the game, fly out to center to open up the seventh. Um, it's just been a rough go for Ozuna. And I'm not sure how this ends. I think before uh the Connor Griffin injury, I wondered where Marcel Ozuna fit on this roster. I think it's a little bit easier now with Griffin out. I don't think Andy really has much to do with it, but there's probably another spot to play with. But even so, when Spencer Horowitz and O'Neill Cruz get back, I'm not sure if I see a real firm fit with Ozuna. We also don't have to make that decision now. He's been a good veteran. I'm not sure there's anybody who's being harmed by keeping off the roster, but they need to see something at some point. And that's the last thing that Charrington said I'm gonna highlight. He said, we're taking it day to day, seeing how it goes. We still believe there's a potent bat in there. There's a lot of season left. Believe he can have a stretch where he's helping us win a ton of games. Well, we're gonna need to see it, and we're gonna need to see some signs soon because uh what Ozuna's doing right now, prior to the game, he was hitting 202 with a 6'10 OPS. You just can't afford to allocate that many at bats to a right-handed only, DH only 35-year-old who's not producing. So I I get writing it out, but sooner or later that roster spot is going to be compromised. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. This has been the Pirates Insider Podcast. Make sure you download these things every day, 10 to 15 minutes of Pirates Talk Monday through Friday. Day game tomorrow, Pirates Braves series finale, Mitch Keller on the mound. Make sure you check out pirates.com, by the way, for a story I've coming about Mitch Keller and a really cool charity thing that he did before the game. I was able to trail him and write about that. So check that out. And uh I will talk to you tomorrow.