The New American Woman, Leader and Mother

The conversation America keeps having but rarely gets right. In this episode, George and Tony sit down with Donna Dilorio to explore one of the most personal and polarizing questions facing women today: the path of career leadership versus the path of home. No judgment, no agenda just an honest look at the trade-offs, the pressures, and what it really means to define success as a woman in modern America. 

Transcript

unknown 0:00

Four four two.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Hey everyone, welcome to The Honest Hour, the show where we have real conversations about the things that shape who you are, how you lead, and how you connect with the people around you. I'm your host, George Adair. And with me, as always, is my co-host, Tony Diorio. Tony, welcome back. Hey, George. Thank you, sir. Glad to be here. If this is your first time with us, we're glad you're here. On our podcast, we have difficult conversations that align core leadership values with real life situations and address how the economy around us will shape our perspectives and maybe even our lives. On The Honest Hour, you will be challenged, provoked, and led in ways that will enlighten your view of people and the world around you. All right. Real quick, we like to give an update on how the format of the show goes for the listeners, just so they understand and can follow along. We'd like to give a number of topics, generally around three or four. And within those topics, we're going to give specific questions that invoke dialogue. After the question and topic section, we get into the rapid fire. Rapid fire is a section that we like to do where we give short answers, really going with your gut. But they're fun. They kind of tie out the entire show and they end the episode. So thanks a lot for listening. Let's get into the show today. Okay. Today we have a very special guest on the show, Donna Di Oreo. Donna is Tony's mom. She is also a woman who has built a career at Kroger, one of the grocery retailers, one of the largest grocery retailers in the country, all while raising a family with her husband over the years. Donna, thank you for being here. We are really glad to have you.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Excellent. All right. Today's episode is about the new American women, one that has taken the challenge and responsibility to be a leader in the office and at home. Today we're going to dive into the culture shift of the high-powered corporate woman versus the stay-at-home mother. We're do where do each work well and where do they not? This is an honest conversation about what has changed in America, what we may have traded, and we're going to talk about what we're seeing from the data today in hopes of uncovering what is what is telling us about the home life, raising children, and the state of the American family today. All right, real quick, I'm going to start off with a fact, and then we're going to jump into this topic and let Donna really lead us through this conversation today. We're so glad to have you. All right, first 1970, 49% of mothers with children under 18 were in the workforce. That's a big difference. In 2023, that number has risen to 72%. At the same time, Annie E. Casey Foundation reports that the children in households with at least one consistently present parent score measurably higher in emotional regulation, academic performance, and really long-term life outcomes. All right, let's get into it. Donna, let's start with you. Take us back to the beginning when you started at Kroger or even before. Were you thinking about a career or were you thinking about a job? And at what point did that ambition show up and say, I want more from this?

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Well, it was in 1970, actually 1971, that I started working, but that was only because of my father uh having a brain tumor and he wanted me to start working at 14. So it was it was very quickly. But then proceeding to uh go into high school and college and uh then went into uh working at fountain sand and gravel in Piablo as a data tech person because that was my degree.

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Data tech. Data technology known her for 44 years and I didn't know that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Yeah, that was back when key punch cards were equal and a great big computers that would be much bigger than this room.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

But anyway, then proceeding to marry, uh, I was very fortunate because my parents had passed away and my sister was raising my little sister and I, and she made me stop working for a while and have concentrate on high school. So basically getting into the workforce, uh I did Fountain San and Grebel as a key punch operator and data tech. And then proceeding to Kroger, I was actually King Supers at the time, and that was back in 1975. Um from there just kept working and and really I had no ambition. It was just a job until I did get married, and with that then figured that I better start finding something, better start contributing. Uh it went pretty fast. And then when the kids were born, it was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 5:24

That was seventy-five to seventy-nine.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Seventy-five to seventy-nine, and then started raising you for So that but when did you see Kroger Kings, right?

SPEAKER_04 5:33

Kings at the time, when did you see that as the career potential? Because you just you just said I I had to start finding something. So obviously that insinuates you were looking outside of the current job. I was. But when did you when did you see that King Supers was the career that you were gonna spend what forty-five years? I don't I don't know forty one years. Forty one years with impressive.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

And uh I it was in nineteen eighty, actually, when your sister was born, and it was like, okay, I better start doing something. So I better concentrate on going full time, getting into management.

SPEAKER_04 6:08

What position you were in in 1980 at King's? Were you a head clerk or were you still bagging in?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

In nineteen eighty it was bakery manager.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, bakery manager in nineteen eighty, and then went on to head clerk and from head clerk to assistant store manager. And to get back to the answer of the question, is it was during that nineteen eighty to nineteen eighty-four that I decided I better really start concentrating on moving up in the management.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Yeah. So it sounds like it was um the course of life sort of came at you uh from the need to be able to take care of your family, to be able to provide more. Yes. You obviously had more responsibility starting to uh pile up.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Um and so obviously doing uh the particular job that you were in probably wasn't, you know, getting you there. So it was more about, hey, how do we raise up um the the family in such a way that uh we now we now have the ability to you know provide um and obviously their future. So so it was really that need that started to pile up behind you that said, hey, I've got to go into something different. I gotta get a little bit higher up.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Absolutely. Plus you evaluate that too. If you're spending time outside the home and you're working, you might as well get paid for it. So you want to advance further.

SPEAKER_03 7:31

Yeah. I love that. And uh I think that that speaks to a lot of people where it's not necessarily a choice, particularly. It's it's the circumstances of life. And so the women now are it's it's not just necessarily that they are saying, Well, I want to have this, it's because we need to provide.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Yeah, just like anybody else, just like the man as well. All right.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

And that's interesting too, George, because on a previous show, George and I were discussing this new generational statistic that we're finding where they don't want leadership. So so almost completely combat what your mindset was at the time. This new generation Z or alpha, can't remember, yeah, uh sees it as I'm just gonna get a second job or a side gig, as they call it, rather than I'm gonna commit if I'm working this eight, ten hours a day, then I'm just gonna get paid the maximum I can get from that company in this position for that time, whereas the new generation says, no, no, no, I'll just do my seven, eight hours and then I'll do four more in a side hustle of whatever kind to make up that same income.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Aaron Powell Well, don't kid yourself. I thought about that. Okay, how about if I just get another job? But why spend more time away from the family, away from home instead of trying to pursue getting paid?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

It's just interesting because the new generation sees it differently, according to this. Yeah, fantastic. Great, great points. Let's keep going up that ladder. So now let's just jump ahead a little bit. Uh you've made it to that's my fault.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

I wasn't able to move because of the family. So I never did pursue anything further.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

That's a whole different dynamic there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:12

Gotcha. Well, that's okay. I mean, I feel I still think that's uh the next run. And so you make it to general manager, and now you're you're probably at higher demand on you at work. Um it's a very competitive market no matter what, to go to manager any level up higher. So tell talk to us about what you felt there was there a cost, either positive or negative, going to that next level? Uh did you lose time with the family? Did you gain time with the family? And uh what did the personal life perspective look like then?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

There was a lot of sacrifices, and definitely you spent more time at work. You were on call constantly. I had over 200 employees at one point. Uh you're responsible for everything, every dynamic within that store. And so you are spending more time. So the sacrifices away from home are a great deal.

SPEAKER_04 10:05

Yeah, I I want to I I absolutely want to talk about the sacrificeness. Num number one, she's correct. My dad picked us up from school on those days that a parent had to pick you up, right? She put in 13 to 15 hour shifts. The funny, the the funny dynamic that that I have trauma, trauma maybe from, is when her employees would go on strike.

SPEAKER_00 10:27

There's the sacrifice that we really should talk about. I forgot about those.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

Which was probably often, well, at least a couple times a year.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Oh, every four years. Okay. And if it wasn't at two o'clock in the morning, everybody in the house was up because she couldn't be quiet, probably vacuuming before she left at two o'clock in the morning. But but uh the two o'clock in the morning, the freezer shut down. So mom's got to go find a freezer guy, I guess. I don't know. I tried to go back to sleep. But she's up and she's doing work, and and that's what it's in the back of your head. That's right. Um and then, like I said, the strikes every few years.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Those were seven days a week. Every 12, 13 hours a day.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

And with the political climate in Colorado, you don't cross a lot of picket lines. So we were the ones, you know, she grabbed us by the back of the collar, and you were either pushing buggies or you were stalking shelves or you were checking people out.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

You were absolutely So as the GM or the manager, you're you aren't picketing. You're not outside hanging out, cooking brats, doing whatever they were doing. Uh, no offense to them. Cooking brats.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

Oh, we would definitely take the workers' water and stuff if they were on the picket line, but the we were managing the store, trying to keep everything going. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

So you're grabbing the kids and and so forth. So this is a great segue to the next question. So, Tony, take us through that life. What was it like having a mom that's becoming she's working, she's doing some special stuff for this organization. She's helping to keep it running, obviously, when strikes are going on and doesn't matter what. But talk to us about that. What do you remember and what do you uh share? What do you got that that shaped you from that?

SPEAKER_04 12:10

Well, I like to joke about it, but the reality is it shaped everything about who I am. So I I say the word trauma, you know, to to get a laugh, but the reality is is we wouldn't have the work ethic. We wouldn't have the understanding of how an operation works, right? Unless we were thrown into it by the back of our shirt collar at 13, 14. I think 15 years old is when we started, to be quite honest, because I I think that's when she could do it. Yeah. But yeah, it you know, throwing into that and understanding what a union is. I mean, I I I could tell you exactly what a union, define it for you, tell you how the operations work at the age of 15, because I was thrown and immersed into it. So from a work ethic, understanding operations, it you know, it's second to none. It's yeah, it's great. The highlights of a lot of that stuff, you know, you'd go into a store and in the middle of a hundred and two degree heat, my mom was everybody's boss. So they're getting you popsicles, they're setting you up. Yeah, right. Nobody can watch TV in the bake break room because she unplugged it. But they plug it in for the kids, right? And they'll go get us some Twizzlers off the shelf. And you know, for a while she was a buyer, and I don't know how all that dynamic works out, but I do still to this day remember she would come back from the buying shows, the conferences where they would introduce new products, and she would have literal bags of crap. I mean, it was just crap. But we went nuts for it. And there were good things. I mean, there were new granola bars, there was new stuff like that to eat, but it was also toys and tchotchkis and just things as a kid. You know, I always remember that. And then she would always she was really good again, just from a cultural perspective outside of the office, but uh she used to take us on our conference trips, right? So and we talk about it even to this day on some of our family outings or reunions, where uh, you know, she'd take me on a trip, and I still remember San Francisco. She took me to San Francisco.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

That was actually because I was enabled to be on the board of directors for the credit union. So I was a board of director, and that was a conference actually for the credit union.

SPEAKER_04 14:14

Which since the question talks about how that shaped me, I also was her successor on the board of directors. So I took that when she aged out on the board and um I took that forward and and and continued as the the the pain in the ass Diorio on the board, I guess. But so uh so yeah, it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah, this is really powerful here. So what I'm hearing is the dynamic is it's very challenging, it's very stretching, and it and it and it definitely causes a little bit of a um situation at home that you have to deal with. But as a key leader, you brought your family into that. You didn't leave them out. A lot of you know, boardroom leaders, you don't really we don't really know how to do it. No, they get a nanny. They get a nanny. There's a lot of separation here. You brought the family into the fold, you kept them tied to what you were doing.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Um, funny that you would say that because uh we know there were times when I was putting together the reclamation center that I'd have to be there on Saturdays. Well, the kids were off, and Donelle, our oldest, wanted to come with me, and so she'd come because we had we actually contracted with the state of Colorado for developmentally disabled individuals to work there. And so she'd come with me, and she actually that influenced her. She ended up getting her degree in developmental disables uh disabilities.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

So it i i I tried to when I could, and we did parades together. We did represent King Supers, we had the buggy drill dream. St. Patrick's Day.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

And we were on the floats throwing candy. Yeah. It absolutely, like you said, she she brought us into it. She made that time, right? That that she could. But I I to go and connect all that back to the statistic that you read at the beginning, it I find that statistic to be relatively true because my mom was also that dynamic or that paradigm is my mom was also the main breadwinner. So we still had the stable kind of as it was put in the statistic, that stable parent at home. Because my dad, if we had anything happened during the day, he could be there. Yeah. Which is much of the same dynamic I have in my family today, quite oddly. But he was there. She just connected and kept it more of a cohesive environment.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yeah, I think two things I take from that. One, you remember all of that. That that was very impactful for you in your life, and you're sort of in your own way living that out, which keeps your kids tied to what you do, what your what your wife is doing. It gives them purpose, it g lets them see that here's a trajectory, here's what it means to be a good citizen, a good steward of your company, all that kind of stuff. Um, and then two, you got to still keep that dynamic intact where you were close to your family, even in difficult times, even in times where that you should be away from the house, you brought them in with that. And so that that missing piece never was missing. It was always there. Maybe not always.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I feel that it was missing.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

I I think I that's one thing I yeah, I can't think you could put a blanket over it as in order to balance the best case scenario. I think that's where it came in and it and it it kind of compliments what you're saying. But she still had to be gone. She was still gone 13 hours a day. And I'll tell you what, go back to your question about that dynamic, on the not so positive side, she was exhausted when she got home. You're on your feet running around, what, a million square feet all day long, right? For 12, 13 hours was your average shift. Yeah. So at the end of the day, she'd come home, she'd have a, you know, a nice plate of dinner that by the way, and again, nothing against you, but my dad made, sure, right? Because she was gone.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

And so she'd come home, she'd have her plate of food, and then but there wasn't a lot of activity in the evening that she could participate in, other than homework, because you can sit there and do homework. Yeah. But she was spooked, she was exhausted. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

And I regret that. I tremendously regret that.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Yeah. Yeah. I think without a doubt, I I can share with all of us here and with everybody out there who's listening that uh I too was certainly in a lot of seasons where I was absent, either absent-minded, even though I'm in the house, or just absent physically, traveling all over the country for my job. And after you sort of collect the dust and you sit back and look at that, you do you do have a little regret. What you can do about it is different, but I think you spoke into it a lot is for us to be mindful of that separation. And when you are there, be present. When you are capable of bringing them into what you're doing, do it. You know, draw them into your environment, let them see what you're doing, and then keep that uh family cohesiveness intact the best you can.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

And it's hard. It that's very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Yeah. All right. We're gonna jump into the second topic, which is actually gonna shift us from thinking about ourselves to thinking about the culture as a whole. Okay. So let's pan out a little bit. So the culture shift is powerful today, right? Celebrating women in careers and leadership, it's all over. It's a lot heavier, certainly than I think the the opposite, so which I think is a good thing. But do we think that in this process it's sending a quieter message that devalues the women who choose to stay at home and make that family their priority? And if so, does that concern us in a way that we need to make some shifts?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

It is concerning because the individuals that are staying home, you have at some point in time, you feel guilt. Okay, should I be really out? Should I be doing but everybody's unique, every situation's unique. And I think in our environment, in our economy, you're kind of almost forced into both both parties working. But the individuals that are fortunate to stay home, what a fabulous opportunity. And I don't think they should feel guilty by any means. I would have loved to have been with my kids. I don't think I'm the kind that could have stayed home every day twenty-four hours a day, but I I admire those individuals that can and do homeschool or do other things with their kids. It's fabulous to have that. And I think it it actually is cohesive to the family and actually is a benefit for the family. And with the statistics that you're looking at, they are more well adjusted because they have somebody at home they can just. I mean, I I was there. My mother never worked, but of course she passed away when I was 12. But after my father passed away, my sister was there. I will tell you that I put her on a pedestal because she never went to work. She had four of us. She brought my little sister in with her family, my little sister and I into her family. And so she had four of us, and she never went to work until we had all gotten through hot college. She ended up retiring as a vice president of RBC, and she was one of the very first female stockbrokers. Wow. So it's amazing. And I hold her, I mean, I admire her, I thank her that she made the sacrifice early that we all made it through, but at the same time, she was very ambitious and went out and was successful later.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yeah. I love that story. That that is definitely something you don't hear about. People are jumping the shark, so to speak. They they kind of get out and because maybe everybody else is doing it, but she was selfless, thought about the family first, and then said, Look, I can do this at any age and I can go up the ladder at any point.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

And she did it. And I'm so proud of her.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

That's incredible. Uh so here's the quick study on this particular topic. So From the American Psychological Association, they show that stay-at-home mothers today are reporting some of the highest rates of social stigma and identity loss in modern surveys, even as culture celebrates women's advancements. So the irony is real, you know, pushing against one form of pressure, we may have created another.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yeah. Yeah. And I actually attest that I see it in my own wife that, you know, even though there is an innate desire in her to be at home, do things for the kids and be there at schools, but also she's even thinking of homeschooling. You mentioned that. So there's a lot of that. And now all of a sudden, there's this real push from her to want to be in management and kind of go that different direction. I don't think it's because of culture. She's not very overly taken by culture, but there's something else there that she keeps saying, Well, I can't just be at home all the time, even though I think she does want.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

There's a desire, I think, in all of us, male or female, to accomplish, to achieve. And you look back on your life and you look at those achievements and you take pride in that. And I think any woman, any man would feel the same way. Like you said, it's not just economically. It's not just culturally. It's what you have inside you.

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Yeah. I love that. Look just for a second, I want to tug on that because I think that calls on this culture today. It's no longer it's a survival tactic, right? We have to do this in order to do that. We kind of go back to that hunter-gatherer. We think we're just men have to go out and kill the, you know, the the animal and bring it home while the wife cooks it. I think that was wrong from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 23:45

Yeah. I don't think there was a difference, you know. If you And uh I'm a spiritual man, so I think about the the garden. And at that point in time, God didn't say, hey, you're gonna go pick the flowers or uh Adam or Eve, and Adam, you're gonna go, you know, prune the trees. No, there was no mandate. It was you're both gonna do all the work and you're gonna take care of this garden here. Okay. And so why did we get it so long wrong after that? I I wonder if there's a a thought you guys have on that perspective. I know biological.

SPEAKER_04 24:16

Men are absolutely gonna be more ruthless, more aggressive. It's just in our simple survival. I'm talking about at the bare level of humanality, not in a career. Women can be extremely ruthless. I've worked with many of them in the boardroom. My mom, I've seen her do this for 40, right? So you got to get that out of your mind. You gotta shred that and go back to the real basics. And the the fact is, back in the day, if a I don't care if it was a man or a woman holding the bow and arrow or the spear that killed the saber tooth, but there's only one of them that can drag it back to the cave. Sure. That's a reality. Yeah. So we can't be blinded by that, but I I do agree with you. It's twisted, majorly twisted. Um, and I have a lot of concerns, kind of go back to the question. I have a lot of concerns with that. I'd would love for my wife or women in general to be celebrated for staying home. And what that does to our culture and how our kids turn out, the next generation, it's amazing. But they don't feel feel fulfilled because society is telling them that they're they're worth so much more. I would argue the worth is more producing a better human that takes over than just accomplishing a building a billion-dollar company.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Very true.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Yeah. So that that's that's where I'm at. And you know, it's gonna probably cause some negative comments, I imagine, from people, but the reality is is the reality is there. Yeah. We don't know because we were never sitting in the cave with them when they were doling out the chores. Yeah. But it most likely came down to hey, woman, I killed it. I drugged that damn thing back here. Will you cook it for me? I'm exhausted. I can't even strip the meat off of it. Yeah. I don't know, but that's what it goes through, I imagine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Yeah. And I do think there was probably a little less of what we see from Hollywood. And the reality in the past was, hey, everybody was doing whatever it took. It wasn't the man went and found his couch, you know, in first century after he brought home the kill. He might have also been plucking it and still helping it. So that I'm sure he was a good one. It wasn't a tired, I'm gonna go sit down. No, what do I need to do next in order to keep this going? It was a family ecosystem that had to keep going, you know. And then, yes, as we got more comfortable, it felt like there was this massive separation of I only need to do this much, and now you got to do that much, and you can't do this over here, and I and I I have to do that over there. So I think there there was that probably culturally where the comfort created the divide.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Well, we celebrated man for so long. So I think you can't just you can't just glaze over that because it it's hundreds of years where the aggression or the hormone or whatever balance of a man just overpowered all woman thought activity. We regulated everything they did. It's still happening in the Middle East, they can't even drive cars. I mean, yeah, can't just ignore that. I think as a progressive, as the right type of progressive society, I'll say it that way, but the right type of progressive society just realizes that there are things that we're both fully capable of. And the ones that are you're gonna struggle with, I should just do. And the ones that I'm gonna struggle with, you should just do. Yeah. Is that that oneness that we are missing, what that really means? I think that's where you find today's successful household. Listen, my wife's not gonna pick up a heavy bag of trash, but I'm not gonna sit there and wipe the counters down either. It's just not built into us, right? I'll go mow the lawn, she'll vacuum the carpet. Now, the the the exertion to do either chore is the same. You're pushing a vacuum, you're pushing a lawnmower. Yeah. It's the same. Yep. But it's just somehow we've divided our way and we're both contributing the same. The carpet still has lent and the lawn needs to be cut. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

Now, before we move on from this topic, Donna, thinking about those mindsets and those cultural divides, how does that play out in the boardroom? Or how does that play out in the management room where it doesn't matter what you know sex you are when it comes to getting things done? You know, you need to tell somebody in a certain way that motivates them or they understand what needs to be done. You know, when you when you think of that, it used to be a big divide in the in the company room or the boardrooms or the management rooms. Today that's not.

SPEAKER_02 28:55

True.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

So when it comes to operating at work, you know, how do you see that and continuing this, you know, progression, whatever you want to call it, so that it doesn't matter who's who's leading.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

I think it's come so far. I can't tell you how far. My mother never had a job. My mother never worked. My sister didn't work until she got all of us through school. And it it there was a glass ceiling. Yeah. And it was there. I I don't care what anyone says, it was there. I was one of only three or four store managers at the time I was promoted. Women did not do that. It was something that was not accomplished at that era.

SPEAKER_03 29:35

And you were the only woman on the board, too.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I was the only one.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

I gotta say, I don't think it's completely gone.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

No, it's not completely gone.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Or or even equalized.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

I think that's the right way to look at it. From my perspective, it's when did you start seeing the shift of them valuing your opinion versus just accepting you to be in the room?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

That did not come. That did not come for quite a while.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

See, I think that's what gets a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

But it's there now. And but at the time I was first promoted, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 30:07

And I think it's been forced to be where it is now, because I've sat in those boardrooms since I was twenty-sec old.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Yeah. Do you do you do you think it was that men had to innately see the successes for a period of time, maybe generations? I mean, we we can go back to the twenties or 50s, it was still really rough for women, 60s even. Did they need to see, and I say they, you know, maybe even considering myself, but uh did they need to see uh an enormous amount of success, meaning CEOs that are driving good organizations and all that.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

And I think there was so many of us that wanted to strive and do better that we put that out there and we uh what we accomplished, then the men turned around and said, Oh, you can do it. I can remember a vice president coming and he's saying saying to me, sitting down and telling me, Well, I really wasn't for you being promoted, but you have done one heck of a good job. I was shocked. I was shocked.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

But it also made me work harder to accomplish what I could accomplish and knew that I could accomplish better than a man or better than some of the men.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

I'm gonna pull on something real quick before you Tony wants to give a response, but I think there's something here, and this is gonna be a controversial one. Men see men speak in a certain way, a tone, a perspective, a vigor, that roughness, right? They can tell it in your voice when you sit down, the way you look, the way you act. That doesn't always equate, though, to your performance, does it? Just because you have emotional intelligence or you have swagger, whatever it is, that doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be good at what you do. So we've always equated that, the persona of the man, to success automatically, almost. So we we do this thing where we take a look at the woman and she comes into an environment and she speaks differently. She's soft, she's her tone is different, right? Well, I this is the tone, this is what I'm gonna pull on.

SPEAKER_04 32:09

But for generations, we put the woman up on the pedestal, right? She's dainty, she's a lady, she can't fart. So we did it to ourselves. I don't think that I don't think that description, I like how you put it, but when we say that that, you know, like going back to my mom's comments about, you know, the board wanting to see success, that's not just men. There were plenty of women. Everybody's got a boss. Yeah. There's plenty of women that are sitting behind in the board seats or in the in the investor chair going, look, I don't give a sh who. Yeah. What's what organ is hanging off of them at the end of the day? I need a return. So yeah, they had to see women succeed before they put the trust into putting them in those power positions. It's all about money. And I don't care what your title is, you've always got a boss. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Okay. So I love that. And I'm gonna, we're gonna end that topic there, but I think that really resonates with a lot of people that we're now, we're now past the divide. We are ready to accept both sexes as being very successful, being able to lead and drive their organizations in difficult, tumultuous times. Some organizations are extremely complex and they require that complexity. Women have it too, and they always have. We're just now finally giving them the opportunity to show themselves and prove themselves. All right, last topic here. I'm jumping to the fourth. So this is more about the future. What are we saying to our youth? And how are we looking at the way that we should speak to them and help give them advice? If we leave this earth, let's just say, and we haven't imparted some of our wisdom and our experiences onto somebody, I think that's a shame. And so this is this part is all about that. So if you could sit down, Donna, and with a 25-year-old, let's just say, and who is trying to really figure out how to balance that career ambition with uh wanting a family, what would you actually tell her? Not the motivation post uh poster version, okay? We're looking for real conversation.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

First of all, identify that everyone's different. They're each individualistic goals that you have. There's each individual situations that you come through. So the variables are different. You have to find a spot for yourself. You have to find what you're comfortable with and what you want to excel in, whether it be a stay-home mom or in the career. And you go for it. It's not easy either one. Neither spot is easy. And it's admirable to stay home, it's admirable to have a career. And you can be successful in either one. It's your decision. And I think you need to feel good about yourself. That's the first thing. Feel good about yourself and be happy with what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Yeah. Yeah, because it always has to come back to your drive. Absolutely. What are you going to put into it? And if we're not teaching our youth that, you know, you still have to pull out of that spirit, that that vigor that you have inside of you. I can't hold your hand through it. I can't make you do it. You have to find it. And so continue to promote that. You've got it, but you need to make a decision on which one you want to go with.

SPEAKER_04 35:10

I have I I I it's not that I disagree. It's that you you can't ignore the primal feature of it all, right? And that is uh we don't procreate without you guys. So if you if you truly sit there and tech tell the next generation that without, you know, you can be a successful career woman or you can be a stay-at-home mom. And and society kind of drives and if if 75%, right, because we didn't evangelize how awesome it is to do both, if 75% go one way, our society declines. It declines. Society declines if the majority of women go this way.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

I disagree because I think you can have a good balance if you feel good about yourself, if you're able to project yourself and help your children no matter what you're doing, and make those sacrifices. Uh I disagree.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

That's fair. I would tend to personally agree with you because I watched you do it and I'm watching my wife and I do it. Based on the statistics, we're both wrong. And that next generation that goes 75% or 80% or whatever, it doesn't matter what the percentage is, but the lion's share goes that direction, those kids grow up differently and not as successful as the opposite way. And that's the point that I'm arguing at.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Well, and you could be very valid, especially if you take a look at the birth rate. I mean, our births have declined.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Well, and you've got many analysts that are putting out journals right now on the cognitive decline of the next generation. So it's right in front of us. That's the only part of that that I that I would want to pick at.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

I would say I would go back to the fact that if they're not taking care of themselves, if they're not positive in their own life and confident in their own abilities, it's going to create that and add to that.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Mental problem. Yeah, I agree with you there. I agree with you there. I j I just think it's something that I don't know, maybe it's worth even a longer conversation on to draw it out. But the the fact is, is if we're looking at the statistics in the studies, I tend to agree with you personally because we're doing it and I lived it. And I think I turned out I mean, I'm, you know, top two percent, right, by career wise. So it's it's it can happen.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

It can happen.

SPEAKER_04 37:31

But the statistics are disagreeing with us.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Because women are not satisfied, not confident in what they're doing. And until that happens, until that happens, then i i it is gonna start seeing a decline.

SPEAKER_04 37:45

So if I and we can move on, George, but but it's okay. If I hear you correctly, what you're saying is the way to succeed in doing this is you have to have the same amount of positive propaganda on both sides. Basically.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I don't I think you know, Donna's on to something here. I'm gonna give a quick study. Uh so uh the 2023 Harvard study of child development found that the quality and consistency of parental presence in the first five years of life is the single strongest predictor of a child's emotional resilience, academic trajectory, uh, all of that, peer influence. The study notably found that this effect applied equally whether the present parent was mother or father. And so what I want to just say right there is is in order for you, in order for those numbers to get more positive, we have to realize it from both sides of the fence, I think, is that no matter where that presence comes from, it has to come from somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

I think you hit the point because it doesn't matter where the presence is.

SPEAKER_04 38:49

It could be grandparents, it could be our presence represents is the values. Yes. Right. Because it does. And we are seeing a growing number of stay-at-home dads nowadays. But I can't tell you when I'm at school pickup and I'm assume you see the same dude all the time. Tons of stay-at-home dads now, where the mom's grandparents are $250.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

I think the line I'm in has a lot of grandparents.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

And and that you need that. You need some kind of stability, and I agree completely with that. There has to be some type of stability.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

You're cheaper. Go ahead and uh we're gonna jump into rapid fire. So this is our final segment. Uh this is all for you, Donna. Tony, you get to be quiet. Down over there. All right. So this is again from your gut. You know, you can give short answers, you can give uh elaborate answers. It's up to you. All right. So go with it. All right. First, rapid fire. Career or family? If you had to name the one you are most proud of, which is it?

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Hate to tell you, but it's both.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

I love that. I actually thought that it was gonna go one way. She gave an honest answer. Thank you. It's definitely both. That actually makes me feel good because I'm also very career oriented, and I think at the end of my days I might say something similar. All right. Next one. One thing you gave up that you still think about.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Do you regret not having the time with the kids that I have.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

Yeah. Okay. What does the stay at home versus the career debate get completely wrong today?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Aaron Powell Yeah, it doesn't matter which way you go, it's right. It's your way. And it's your situation, it's your uh whatever the situation you're in, it's right, whatever you decide.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

Yeah, I like that. Rapid fire four, finish the sentence. The most important job a woman can have is doing everything she can. Like that. All right, last one. What do you hope Tony took from watching you build your career?

SPEAKER_01 40:50

I know my work ethic, and I feel so guilty about that because he works so hard and he's accomplished so much that I'd say my work ethic is the one thing that I'm very proud about. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:04

I actually share the same. My mom was the hardest worker I've ever met. She gave 35 plus years to real estate and other jobs. I think she had three jobs while we were kids. Unfortunately, my father wasn't around, and so she covered all. And um I that's who I am today.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 41:21

I don't know any different. And I'm I love it. I'm very happy about it, you know. All right. That's going to do it for today's episode of The Honest Hour. Donna, thank you for sitting with us and being real about all of it.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Tony, thank you as always for bringing it on us. Like always have a good time. Excellent. If today's conversation meant something to you, do us a favor, share it with someone who needs to hear it. That's how we grow this thing, and that's how people get better together. And if you're in a hard season right now, I just want to say this directly to you. You're not behind, you're not broken, and this is not your end of your story. That's our hour. Lead well, live better, and keep it honest.