Episode 8 with Guest Sandi Burchfield

In this insightful episode of Matters of the Mind, Dr. Rick sits down with Sandi Burchfield for a powerful conversation about mental wellness, personal growth, and the journey toward living with purpose and resilience.

Sandi shares her unique experiences, perspectives, and practical wisdom on navigating life's challenges while maintaining emotional and mental well-being. Together, Dr. Rick and Sandi explore the importance of self-awareness, healing, healthy relationships, and the mindset shifts that can help us thrive in an ever-changing world.

Whether you're seeking encouragement, personal development insights, or a deeper understanding of mental health, this episode offers valuable takeaways and meaningful inspiration.

🔹 Topics Discussed:
• Mental health and emotional wellness
• Building resilience through life's challenges
• Personal growth and self-discovery
• The power of mindset and perspective
• Practical strategies for living a healthier, more fulfilling life

Don't forget to LIKE, COMMENT, and SUBSCRIBE for more thought-provoking conversations on Matters of the Mind.

#MattersoftheMind #DrRick #SandiBurchfield #MentalHealth #PersonalGrowth #Mindset #EmotionalWellness #Podcast #MentalWellness #SelfDiscovery

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to Matters of the Mind. I'm Dr. Rick Adams, licensed psychotherapist and professor of psychology and human behavior. This podcast is devoted to helping you understand how the mind is shaped and influenced physically, psychologically, emotionally, socially, and spiritually. For more than three decades, I've been blessed with a front row seat into the minds of humanity. And now it's my desire to use that experience to help you guide you and assist you through this Matters of the Mind podcast. Today's Matter of the Mind topic is one that cuts across every area of life. So much so that throughout this series, I'll be joined by fellow clinicians, counselors, psychotherapists, psychiatrists, along with both current as well as former registered interns who actively work in the field of behavioral health. Because this is a topic that I choose not to tackle alone. Today's matter of the mind topic is mental health. But instead of approaching it from a traditional way, I want to bring it into focus by asking and answering three critical questions. Where are we? Because where we are influences where we're going, and where we're going ultimately determines where we're headed. And to help me unpack today's Matter of the Mind topic, I'm joined by a special guest as well as a very dear friend, someone who I believe will be a frequent flyer here on Matters of the Mind, Sandy Birchfield. But before we begin, allow me to tell you a little bit about Sandy. Sandy is a licensed marriage and family therapist, advanced certified Imago relational therapist, and a qualified supervisor for marriage and family therapy as well as mental health counseling. She's also been in the field for 19 years. She's the founder of Family Life Counseling Center, a large regionally based group practice here in Central Florida across 14 office locations. Family Life Counseling Center is now the largest Christian-based private group practice that is still owned by a clinician in Florida. Sandy's also trained in brain spotting. She's also a family court mediator, and together with her husband Donnie, they are celebrating their 10th anniversary of Family Life Counseling Center. They're also celebrating 25 years of marriage with four children. Together, they also lead a multicultural intra-denominational church called New Wave in Claremont, Florida. Sandy, welcome to Matters of the Mind.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Thank you. And I'm honored that you asked me to come here.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

So this is just going to be just us talking, okay? But also us focusing on what I believe is is very important now, and that's the field of mental health, okay? So I want to just begin by asking you that question from your perspective, everything you've seen, not just over the last year, but over the last 19 years or so up to now. Where are we? Um and where we're going and where we're headed, okay? So where do you believe we are when it comes to clinically and mental health?

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yeah, I think we're in a ripe season of people being aware that there is such a thing as mental health.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

That we're not just all mentally ill or it doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

So I do think that um we've come a long way of understanding that we do need to take mental health seriously.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

So we have a lot to learn because now it's become aware. You know, just the awareness is the first step.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Now, when we start talking about that awareness though, what what are the ones that we're seeing an increase in? When you when you look at your your practice and you talk to other um individuals that you're supervising as well as uh your staff, what what are some of the things that we're seeing as far as um areas of mental health?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

So um historically is uh in in our practice anyway, it used to be um parents would send in their troubled 12-year-old and then they would send in their husband and then they would finally come for themselves. And now I'm starting to see more proactiveness with the middle-aged class, okay, um, saying, you know what, my kids are having issues, but I think I am too.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

So they're able to start recognizing that. I think the other thing I'm seeing a big influx is referrals from other medical providers. So not just from psychiatrists, not just from pediatricians, but from GI doctors, from neurologists, from the cardiologists saying that, you know, this person's got a heart condition. They feel like they do, but we know it's stress. So we're sending them to you. So I'm seeing a more awareness in the middle, in the medical field too.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

And as a as a result of that, um, what's what would you say are some of the underlying causes then of that stress and and those other issues that are being presented?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

Um, I think everybody's taking on too much. I think um going back to uh everybody wants to do the right thing and they want to do it well, and the old cliche that in America, you know, you can dream and be all you can be, and you can do whatever you've dreamed you're you know, put in your heart to do. And so everybody's trying to do it all at one time. And so I think it comes down to I want to do better than my parents, I want to do better than you know, my neighbor, you know, whatever. So I think it's coming down to comparison and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:27

And and that's one of the things that we always say, uh comparison is one of the quickest ways to depression. Yeah, okay. Uh and with with that being said though, we're we're trying to compete with others, okay? Um, but what what is it what are you seeing uh individually, internally though, that that when we get past that competition of of everyone else, what's really um going on internally that you're seeing that people are struggling with?

SPEAKER_00 5:53

I think even competing with themselves.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Like I'm I I'm not doing as good as I should. Um I should be further along. You know, I it's these internal, you know, things that we expectations that we have for ourselves. Um I'm not the best mom that I should be. Um by 30 I should have been doing this, this, and this. So it may not be something that anybody has told them. It's just our internal dialogue.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

And where would you say that that that's coming from? Because I see and seen over the years is your present problem, and I've said this before, is usually not the source of your present pain. Your present pain is usually rooted in your past. And what I've seen is a lot of past trauma. And that unresolved trauma that we don't necessarily um fix, so to speak, continues to grow in different ways and impacts um us as in society growing up. Are you seeing some of the same things?

SPEAKER_00 6:48

I mean, absolutely. I mean, even just the uh definition of Imago therapy.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

And I want you to talk about that too. I want you to but go ahead, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I want you to talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

So it it goes back to our unmet childhood needs and our childhood wounds, and they come out in relationships, they come out in other areas. So, like you're saying, like it comes out twenty years later when I'm parenting my own child, or I'm you know trying to do a career and I got my internal dialogue that's coming from my childhood. And whether it was my parents that told me things, it was my grandparents who told me things, or teachers. Maybe it was classmates.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Now you say even 20 years later?

SPEAKER_00 7:23

Even twenty or more years later, yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Not because I I mean that's not strange to me because I've seen it before. Uh I've seen it as far back as 40 years. Uh-huh. And and I remember cases where uh I work with someone who's in his 60s and he's still struggling with something, an incident that happened with him when he was 10 years old.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:41

And he cannot allow that one incident. Um, he's he's very prosperous, very successful in life, um, but he's been on his third marriage. Okay. And and that's because come when we unpack it, it's that childhood experience at 10 that continues to manifest. So in Imago therapy, you kind of focus on that. Can you tell me how you would help someone in that case if that were uh using that type of therapy?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yes. So um when we we all have lost parts, we all have parts that we didn't get from our parents. And so when we're looking for a partner, we're looking for that perfect match, we're looking for someone who completes us. Um my strengths are your weaknesses, your weaknesses are my strengths. You know, we we get along great. But what we also realize is because that was my weakness, that's an unmet need, and I'm unconsciously expecting you to fulfill an unmet need that I got from what I didn't get from my parents.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And we both know that that's not always possible.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

No, it's it becomes conflict. That's where all the struggle, the troubles, and struggles come.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

And and I want to flow with you there, okay? Because I I see conflict a lot. We both see conflict a lot. And and we're not immune to it ourselves. Right. However, from a mental health perspective, that conflict grows into what? Is it just the chaos that it grows into? Um what else can it grow into?

SPEAKER_00 9:06

It grows into a lot, it grows into projection. I'm gonna blame everybody else, um, or I'm expecting everybody else to do something that really I either should be doing myself, or because I didn't get it from my parents, I need to get it from the Holy Spirit, I need to give it from God, or some other external factor, or if I can't give it to myself. I can't put those unrealistic expectations on my kids, my spouse, my co-worker.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

But we do though.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

We do all the time.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

But we do, all the time. All the time. And let's stay somewhat relational. What are you seeing as far as where we are with regards to couples and married couples? What are some of the the stressures, the strains and that that is unfortunately pulling them apart?

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Um number one they all come in for is communication. They say we're not communicating, we're not on the right page, and it's really not the communication, it's really understanding what they're communicating about because they don't even know what they're communicating about. Um a simple example um is uh she he never listens to me. He never takes out the trash, he never um you know takes care of the dishes, he sees I'm doing all this for the kids and he's watching TV. And it's not playing video games. And um he doesn't realize that he's playing video games to avoid um being put down, being um uh belittled, um, being critical because he probably came from a hyper-critical mom who he could never do chores right, so why bother?

SPEAKER_01 10:35

And so then he doesn't even try and so what you're presenting then is there's a lot of unmet needs. A lot of internal conflict.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

And that internal conflict, if if not dealt with, will definitely be projected out, correct? Yes. Okay. And how does that ultimately impact the kids though?

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Um, they see mom and dad arguing all the time. They don't always know exactly where it's coming from. They just know, okay, mom's yelling at dad, dad's yelling at mom, dad's avoiding mom. Okay, then I'm gonna have my own internal dialogue. Now, when I get older, I'm gonna do this, this, and this. Or maybe I'm gonna be the people pleaser and I'm gonna help mom with the chores just to keep the peace. And so now I'm not able to fulfill who my own identity is. I'm only doing it to make mom happy.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Which brings me to what I'll call n negative stages of change. And yeah, you're changing and you're growing and you're maturing, but you're doing it for someone else. Exactly, exactly. Which then impacts their family, which impacts their kids, and then you have that generational thing that begins to follow.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Now, that that's good because it leads me to the next stage. If we're talking about where we are from your perspective, where we're going, if if we don't address these matters from your perspective clinically, where you see us going as a society when it comes to mental health.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

So if we don't take care of this, what I am seeing already starting to happen is social media. People go to get their needs met through social media. So I'm gonna go on TikTok and I'm gonna find everything that tells me all about how I'm doing things well, or finding people, you know, the whole trauma bonding. I'm gonna find people who are dealing with and struggling with the same thing as I am. So instead of doing it as a support, it's more feeding into more of the internal dialogue that I have that may not be healthy.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

That's land the plane there. Because last week I had uh Dr. uh Bacham here, Dr. Shonda, who we both know, and she was presenting how people are actually going to chat uh to get their diagnosis, to uh get their counseling. Yep, yep. Okay. So can can you speak to that when it comes to if we continue to use social media as our therapists and use social media as our uh identity, what impact can that have on us as well as our family from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 12:50

I think it puts us more in isolation. It puts us more into nobody understands but me and this computer or this phone. Um so even with Chat GPT but the AI things that are coming out now, it only gives you what you feed it too.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

So that's good. That's good. And and I I have to say that all the time that that what you feed it is what you're gonna give it. What you put in is and and if you put in what you want people to see you as, that's what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Yes. And because my way of thinking is distorted, then I'm they're only gonna see or ChatGBT is only gonna get a distorted view of me and a distorted view of my spouse or my friend or whoever I'm struggling with. So it doesn't have the emotions behind it, it doesn't have the um the internal infrastructure to understand that there's different dynamics going on within just my conversation with this thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Let's then, and you brought up an excellent point. So let's talk about distorted thought processes. You and I know what that is, and you and I, from a clinical per perspective, have studied and worked with individuals who have distorted thinking. Let's let's kind of break that down though. When when you say distorted thoughts um or thinking patterns, what are you um presenting that that to be?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Um so my perception is my truth. Your perception is your truth. So when I'm thinking something, I start having this conversation with myself and as though it's true. So for example, she's lying to me. She's lying to me about XYZ, and I didn't even hear it right to begin with. I see this a lot. Um, I'll I'm gonna put it with my student interns. Um, so a student intern will come in and say, I'm confused, I think everything is dysfunctional right now because she's telling me one thing and you're telling me another, and you somebody's lying. And it's like, no, I'm not lying. I'm you're telling you fed me a question or you gave me a qu a scenario and I answered it, but you gave them a different side of that scenario. So their way is true and my way is true, or my way is accurate.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Which which is why when I do marriage counseling, I'll I'll try to uh start with this question and say, we're not here to deal with the truth, okay? But we are here to deal with your perception.

SPEAKER_04 15:08

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

So I'll say um you give your perception and you give your perception. And and the issue is when you give perceptions, you cannot say somebody's wrong or right, because that's their view, that's their lens. And and I'd say, let's stay away from the truth. We'll get to the truth, the truth will eventually come out, but for now, let's deal with perceptions. Because as you said, your truth, my truth begin and and we know from a from a faith-based perspective, there's only one truth.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

The ultimate, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Um but he's the only one who's all knowing and all seeing to see all lenses.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

There you go. There you go. Um, and the other thing too is you presented something. That the three I do what's called Trinitarian therapy. And I present to them that the three things that will always impact a marriage is miscommunication, misunderstanding, and misinterpretation. And I'll ask them which one are we dealing with? Now before usually I say all three, and I'll say, okay, no, no, no. Let's just just pick one. Which one is really impacting your marriage? Is it the miscommunication? Uh, is it the misunderstanding, or is it misinterpretation? What what did you just hear that they said? Uh and and that's something that, as you said, that miscommunication is is a big thing. Now, with that being said, from your perspective, where are we going with regards to young people? Because we both in our in our careers have serviced a lot of young people. I used to work at a run runaway shelter for teens and and and having worked in that environment, and now I'm not seeing it getting getting better. I'm actually seeing it getting worse. Okay, from my perspective. Yeah. So what are you seeing from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Um, I think uh it's it's two-sided to that. So maybe clarify your question and then I can answer.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

So as far as where we're going, um, how is it impacting teens? And what do you see that's not just the negative or the well, well, from this perspective, the negative or positively, what are you seeing as far as the direction that our youth is going?

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Okay. Um so on one hand, going back to social media, there's a lot of awareness. So I'm seeing more and more teens more aware of the maybe my mom's not trying to be so critical, maybe, but I can see where she's had this, this, and this from my grandma. Like I'm seeing more teenagers actually being more aware of maybe it's not my mom's crazy or my mom's always angry, but there's a reason behind it. But then what does that do to me? Now I'm too understanding, and I just let my own feelings and my own things go to appease my mom, and then I'm still left in the dark with my own personal stuff of that what she said hurt me or what she said was confusing, and then now I'm trying to parent my parents at the same time. Right. So going back to my unmet needs, so now it's like you never listen to me, you never and the poor husband sitting there like, I don't you didn't even ask me a question. So, but they're assuming because she's that person has grown up now, and they've started to appease their parent their husband, and they're trying to make his life because again, they're trying to be a microtherapist and understand and be aware of their own mental health, but their husband's mental health, but he doesn't know that what he's saying or doing is hurting her, and so she stuffs it, she holds it in, and then it all comes out, and he's like, Well, you never even asked me, or you never even told me that.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Now, we both do faith-baith Christian therapy. Okay. What are you seeing as far as how that is uh strengthening your practice as far as being able to um work with individuals from a faith-based Christian perspective? But also, how are you able to work with individuals who may not necessarily have that same faith-based Christian perspective? Uh, because we both still serve individuals that may have a different faith, but we don't steer away from our own faith. Okay. So, how are you seeing uh from a mental health perspective, how are you seeing coming from a faith-based perspective, strengthen the the aspects of mental health and what are some of the challenges?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

Yeah. So um the strength of that is there's this existential part of thinking. Like a lot of us go into, you know, we've had traumas happen or we've had trials or situations that were beyond our control. So a lot of people are coming in, like, why me? Why is this happening? Um, why would God do this to me? So whether they're religious or not, they're still asking the question, why me? Why is this happening to me, or what's going on, and they don't understand. So um, coming from a Christian perspective allows the freedom and the openness to ask those questions and dive into them, um, not necessarily religiously, but being able to go outside of myself, that there's other things that are going on that could be causing or could be um part of the the reason why things are happening. Um with other, and so going back to people who are maybe non-religious, I'm able, we're able to still um give them that platform to ask those questions outside of ourselves that something's beyond me, something's beyond the people that were in the room. Was there a demonic thing? Was there a spiritual thing? Was it just chance? Is it is it something out in um uh nature that has caused this? So it gives the opportunity for that to be more open. Um, it also allows for spiritual abuse and spiritual trauma to be more open to talk about. Um, because we do get a lot of clients who are um Christian, they believe in God, but they're they're been betrayed or hurt by a superior, whether it was a youth pastor or a worship minister or the lead pastor. And so there's a lot of church hurt stuff that comes in, which also goes back to their own unmet needs growing up, their childhood wounds, and they've projected it and put it on to their leaders or allowed their leaders to take a parental role that they should have never had.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

And I want to land a plane there for a moment because in my 30 plus years and and in your 19, so so together that's 50 years of experience we had, yeah. I want to talk about somewhat of an uncomfortable subject, and that is um those who've been church hurt. And and I want to talk about that because from a mental health perspective, I see as well as yourself, individuals who were in the church and and we're seeing young people now uh who were in the church and then go to college and and quote fall away uh of of large percentages. Okay. And from a mental health perspective, we know that that them fall Falling away is actually going to increase the probability of having mental health issues, especially self-harm and anxiety. So twofold. How can we help them? Okay. Um when um so that they don't lose that when they when they are uh leaving to go out to to college and and also deal with these things called life. Um but also um how are we able to help those who actually have been church hurt before they leave? Because I've I've seen a lot of that. Um and I've I've uh I see those who are really church hurt not just because of abuse that they may have experienced in the church, but I've also seen them uh the church hurt when they've really said, I've I prayed and I asked God to to help me and to save my mom or save my child, and and he didn't do it. Um and that's the other church hurt that I've seen. But more church hurt that I've seen though is when, like you said, those leaders who uh are a reflection of God um betray that trust.

SPEAKER_00 23:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

So so let's speak to them.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah. So um going into trauma, you have to build that rapport, build that connection, help the client feel safe, even to be able to discuss things. So, first getting into uh helping them understand that what they did or what they heard or what they experienced was wrong, that they should so being able to validate and support and empathize with them and work through their pain. Because if they're still in their pain, they can't get past the fact that this person was a leader, which means I can trust the next leader, because I can't trust any leader if I can't trust this one. They put them all in the same basket. So we got to first get through the trauma of what actually occurred and what actually happened to them. And once they can understand that where that pain comes from and be healed, now they can see that other person as another broken person, which means I can go to the next church or the next leadership and and and I don't have to again put my unmet wounds from this person onto the projecting onto the next person, the next leader.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

Excellent, excellent. Which which brings me to something because oftentimes I'll present to them that that we pain and hurt are in the same boat, but they're on two different sides. Two different levels. Okay. And as you said, we we gotta address the pain and we gotta heal from the pain, but the hurt can stay forever, you know? And and when we lose.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

I join a different ministry, and I start to hear or see some of the similarities for what I heard, and it's like, oh, my my radar goes up because I'm hurt.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Triggered I'm triggered, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

So being able to recognize, wait, I'm triggered, I need to uh deal with that. Where is that trigger coming from? Why am I feeling that way? And did this person really mean to do that? Are they really the person that was from five years ago? So being able to deal with what is that? And do I need to address that? It's just work though. It does work. It takes work. It takes work, a lot of work.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

And and I think sometimes people forget that that therapy is work.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

Yeah, and it's a life, it's a lifelong journey, even if it's not with the same therapist the whole time. Like I think we think that when we got healed at 18, we're still dealing with an 18-year-old brain. So at 30 years old, we may need to come back and readdress some things that I understood and agreed or was found healing at 18. But now that I'm 30 and I've been through some things, I've had some experiences. Yeah, and now I'm I'm a little bit more mature. So now I can understand that same scenario, but 10 years later, so I need to go talk to somebody else. And we so yeah, therapy and mental health is a lifelong journey.

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Which is why I sometimes distinguish between counseling and therapy, okay? And I say that you know, counseling is guidance and direction, therapy is surgery. Yes, and and that surgery uh uh can can can hurt a lot, and so can counseling if it's if it's um given by the the the wrong person. Okay. Um now lastly, uh we've talked about where we are, we've talked about where we're going, um, where we're headed, okay? Uh where are we headed overall um if things improve where we're headed, but also if things do not improve. Um because I from my perspective, uh I I do see uh a remnant of of young people who are striving and doing wonderful things, and I see the remnant of couples who overcome so many tragedies and are um uh prospering in different ways, okay? However, overall, overall, I'm not seeing that as a whole. Okay. So from that perspective, where are we headed?

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Yeah, so I will um talk on the negative side first, because that's scary to me. Um, of what if we don't get this right and we don't we continue to make things worse by not becoming aware, not dealing with our own struggles and traumas, as we'll just keep repeating the cycle um of abandoning ourselves, projecting onto others, isolating by getting deeper into social media and things instead of actual people. Um and it kind of brings me into the thoughts of maybe there's end times coming soon, of you know, we're we're causing our own humanity to, you know, demolish by going to computers and machines uh to to think for us. Um, so that's the downside, I think, is that we'll just continue to perpetuate the same cycle that history has already shown us, but now we have other things involved like machines and AI and um things that are beyond our control.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Makes Terminator seem real.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Yes, yes. So that's the scary downside. I think the positive is that if we can we can change history and we don't have to keep repeating things. And we um society and as a globally as a world, we have come so far in our knowledge and our technology, and we can continue to do those great things to to maintain our country, to maintain our earth, you know, if we can understand just our own basic mind. And and I say basic, but it's not basic, but being able to understand who I am as a person, what my purpose and fulfilling is, why did those things happen to me to be able to cause you know for the greater good, but also that you had the same thing going on for you too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

This is this has been so good, okay? So I have got to have you back. Yes, I would love to come back. There's so much more that I want to unpack than and uh I just want to leave with uh that abandonment uh which leads to anger, you know, which which leads to abuse.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Um and I want to talk about the just those three A's of of and how do we approach that as well. So um I am so for looking forward to our next meeting on Matters of the Mind. Okay, so thank you so much, and uh thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure back, right? Yeah, we'll come back. All right, thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

You've been listening to Matters of the Mind, a podcast that focuses on matters that affect the mind. I'm Dr. Rick Adams, licensed psychotherapist and professor of psychology and human behavior. Come, join me on the couch as we discuss matters dealt with, matters dealing with, and the matters that we avoid.